This week the girls (and Simon) chat about the stages of setting up a business with an eye on how to detect and overcome OVERWHELM in all its guises!
Mark your calendars! Join us on Saturday, December 7, 2024, for the Girls in Property Christmas Gala Ball. Want early access to tickets and updates on future events? Just send a DM with "COMMUNITY" and we’ll add you to our mailing list.
Additionally, if you're interested in taking your property journey to the next level, click here to book a FREE 30-minute consultation with Athena. We'll discuss how the Property Lifestyle Accelerator Programme can help accelerate your success.
ABOUT THE HOST
With more than 5 years of experience as a landlord, Athena Dobson departed her secure corporate job two years ago to chase her passion as a full-time property investor.
Now, she successfully manages multiple businesses handling HMOs, SAs, & BTLs, all while sharing her expertise to guide &teach others on their own journey to success.
Athena's mission is to be able share as many tips as possible from her own experience, to empower others to navigate the complex realms of business & property with confidence! 🌟
Girls in Property is recorded at Absolute Music Studios in Poole.
CONNECT & CONTACT
...
This week the girls (and Simon) chat about the stages of setting up a business with an eye on how to detect and overcome OVERWHELM in all its guises!
Mark your calendars! Join us on Saturday, December 7, 2024, for the Girls in Property Christmas Gala Ball. Want early access to tickets and updates on future events? Just send a DM with "COMMUNITY" and we’ll add you to our mailing list.
Additionally, if you're interested in taking your property journey to the next level, click here to book a FREE 30-minute consultation with Athena. We'll discuss how the Property Lifestyle Accelerator Programme can help accelerate your success.
ABOUT THE HOST
With more than 5 years of experience as a landlord, Athena Dobson departed her secure corporate job two years ago to chase her passion as a full-time property investor.
Now, she successfully manages multiple businesses handling HMOs, SAs, & BTLs, all while sharing her expertise to guide &teach others on their own journey to success.
Athena's mission is to be able share as many tips as possible from her own experience, to empower others to navigate the complex realms of business & property with confidence! 🌟
Girls in Property is recorded at Absolute Music Studios in Poole.
CONNECT & CONTACT
...
You're listening to the Girls in Property podcast, where we explore the world of property, meet amazing guests to hear their stories and support you in your property journey. Hello, everybody. Welcome from wherever you are listening from. You're here with me, Sophie. And I'm here with Simon. Hello, Athena. Hi, Angelia. The whole team is back together. It's lovely to see everyone. Should we start with what we're celebrating?
Athena:Yes.
Sophie:Athena, what are you celebrating?
Athena:So I'm celebrating the fact that we are all back together again, which is absolutely amazing. It feels like a lifetime. Also, we had our 30th episode, didn't we?
Sophie:We did.
Julia:Literally.
Athena:That just went out. So hopefully this will be number 31, but very exciting. I can't believe how much we've done. I'm so proud of us.
Simon:30 weeks of podcasting and we've become real professionals. I have to say. We're now sat on a nice big squishy sofa. We're no longer squashed into an uncomfortable room in a cellar with people's footsteps above us.
Athena:That's right. And we've even got ring lights and everything.
Sophie:Putting you on the spot.
Simon:Yeah, I do. So actually a very exciting week this week because we will tip over into 10,000 listens over all time.
Athena:I mean, that's incredible.
Simon:In the next two episodes. So that is cool stuff this week. Last week, Millie's episodes that went out, she went into the top three episodes their first week with 118 listens on its first day, which is really cool.
Athena:That's amazing.
Simon:Millie and our listenership just grows and grows. It's awesome to see you every week.
Sophie:Welcome, listeners.
Simon:Welcome, new people. Thank you for your faithfulness and loyalty.
Athena:I just can't wait to see where we grow and kind of the retreats that we do and kind of the events and things. And we're just going to take it even higher. So that's what I'm going to celebrate this week.
Sophie:Beautiful. What about you, Julie?
Julia:I can't really beat that.
Simon:Just going to take the whole podcast.
Julia:I'm just like, oh, this is nice. But I'm actually celebrating the fact of growth. Like, usually I would find this past month very stressful and I would probably have 20 million breakdowns and I'd be like, oh, my God, I can't do this. And I've actually turned around, was like, I'm chilling. I'm okay. We're going to get through this. We're going to get work through this. It's going to be fine. So, yeah, growth is a big one. So that's what I'm celebrating.
Athena:Excellent.
Sophie:That is amazing. How about you, Simon?
Simon:I'm celebrating survival because I've just got back from the Alps where my cousins took me and they said, you should have a go at mountain biking. So in Morzine, one of the world's scariest places to go, mountain biking just was hurled down a hillside, didn't fall off, which is good. But I did decide to take the afternoon off and just had a sit and watched everybody else.
Sophie:They said, you got them to all do shots at lunchtime.
Simon:Yeah, there may have been a little bit of subversion on my part there. Yeah, I may have had a part in that.
Sophie:Good. But apparently the apps is really nice in the summer.
Athena:It is. It's gorgeous.
Sophie:We should maybe do like an alpine summer retreat.
Athena:Absolutely. Yeah.
Sophie:Cool.
Athena:So what are you celebrating?
Sophie:I'm celebrating so we're recording this first week of August. Is it the second week of August?
Simon:It's now the second week.
Athena:Wow.
Sophie:School holidays. We've moved house and it's all happening. And I'm celebrating that we now live really close to the sea. And it's just lovely. It's really lovely. It's been a chaotic six weeks, but this weekend I finally stopped and had a beach day with the kids and some of our friends and just enjoyed it without being pulled by lots of different things. So, yeah, it was really lovely. Fab so today we're going to talk about overwhelm because we just want to chat about what's happened to us within our own businesses because I'm sure that lots of people can relate to it. So the first thing we're going to talk about is when you first start out. We all started out in property within the last few years, so who wants to kick it off with how they felt when they first started?
Athena:Shall I kick it off?
Sophie:Yeah.
Athena:So I remember when I first started, obviously there's the whole transitional period that everybody, most of the time will go through, which is you have a full time job and then you're trying to actually transition into getting into property full time. And that's quite difficult because you've got a lot of pressure, of course, from your work and then you've got a lot of pressure coming from wanting to be more and to do more. And that's quite a difficult thing to do. A lot of the time you're working on your days off. A lot of the time you're working in your lunch break. And so what ends up happening is you can almost have burnout because you're trying to go too far. Also, the overwhelm of what you're dealing with is a lot of people questioning you about what you're actually doing. The amount of people I'm speaking to at the moment where they're saying to me, who I'm mentoring, and they're saying to me, oh, and I'm not ready to tell my family yet, I'm not ready to tell my friends yet, I'm not ready to go on social media yet. And my question is always kind of like, well, why? And they're like, oh, I just don't know what they're going to say. And I'm like that's part of the overwhelm is the feeling of failure, the feeling of what would people say about me? So that's always quite a difficult one emotionally, to get over. And then it's a time balance as well. So there's a lot to it, really.
Sophie:So you felt overwhelmed when you first started?
Athena:Definitely.
Sophie:And how did you deal with it?
Athena:How did I deal with it? That's a very good question. I didn't deal with it crying arm.
Simon:In arm through a forest.
Sophie:I know, we'll come to that.
Athena:You know what? It's part of learning. It really is part of learning, because when you're ever going to be doing something new and uncertain, it is very scary because it's the unknown. Always when you're jumping into the unknown, that's the scariest bit, because you just don't know what's about to happen and you've never done it before, so you don't know how good you're going to be if it's going to work. And there's a lot of doubt that creeps in. A lot of doubt, a lot of what if. And I think a lot of times we see this memes and things of cycles that they show you and it goes, this is a great idea, and then you're like, this is not a good idea. Am I doing well? Am I failing? Oh, actually I'm making some money, I'm doing well. Oh, no, it's not going very well. And it's literally a roller coaster. We talk about this roller coaster all the time and I think that is what happens. And when you first start, you have to be your greatest cheerleader. You have to because a lot of people will question you and say, well, is this a good idea? And what they do is they project their own kind of disbeliefs or their own, well, I couldn't do that, so how could you possibly do that onto you? And I had a lot of that and obviously that's now changed and you just got to bring people on that journey with you, but you've always got to make sure that it's right for you.
Sophie:I think having positive cheerleaders around you is massive.
Athena:My God, I've always said this. I've always said the fact that we're so close and we're each other's biggest cheerleaders and that's what you need. You need people to lift you, to say, well, why couldn't you do that? What's the reason you couldn't do that? You can do that. And so we always say, don't we, on the podcast, we always say, make sure you're surrounding yourself with the right people, right inner circles. That is what will get you through and all about, which is why we've got Star Collective as well. It's just such a wonderful group of people that just lift one another and say, well, you can do it and give action more tasks and make sure they do it.
Julia:Yes.
Sophie:How about you, Julia? How did you feel starting out?
Julia:Do you know what? So I think I left school and I thought, I want to get in property. And I was really young and I was more excited than anything because there was no one my age doing it. So I was like, oh my God, I'm going to be the first one to do it. And I'm quite confident in myself anyway, naturally. And I think that I gained that through just life experience of dealing with problems day to day. And for me, it's more excitement. It was more like, let's do this. I sort of knew that I'm going to hit problems along the way, but I was excited for those problems. I was like, oh, my God, what problems can I solve? How can I solve them? I need to think about it. I actually need to use my brain power for this. It doesn't come easy. And I always have the longer term vision in mind. So I knew that when I was starting out. Obviously, you go and hear all these people who are like, you'll be financially free in a year, and you'll have a Ferrari and you'll have this mansion of a house, and it's like, okay. It's like expectations versus reality is very different. Yes, but also, they weren't partially wrong. Like, you do get the freedom. It might take you a bit longer than a year, but it is possible. And I think seeing from other people and seeing that is possible, and actually hearing about their failures and how long their journey was and going, oh, the first year was really beep. And then the second year was amazing. I had quite a good reality check, and I knew what I was getting myself into, so I wasn't really overwhelmed at the start. I was excited. I was like, let's do this. Let's get my first no, let's get my first rejection. Let's power through it. But then, obviously, age hit me quite quickly where people were like, you're too young to do this. You can't do this. And I still get it to this day. And I'm 21, so I'm like, I'm actually an adult now. You'd say that's why they class you as, and it's like, well, apparently not. So I think more the overwhelm came from my age, and it's because it was something I couldn't change about myself. I was like, frustrating. I can't just go in a time machine and come back when I'm 30. I can't do that. And that's what they want from me. And I'm like, I've got all the knowledge. I know how to make it work. So it was more frustrating from that side. It's like, I know it. I can make it happen. I can do it.
Athena:Do you know I find really interesting about that? Because you're talking about your age, as in being too young, but then you see a lot of these people in the room who are 50, 60 who think that they're too old. So it's like, well, hold on. Is there just a really sweet spot of an age you're supposed to do this?
Sophie:32 and a half.
Simon:Do you think starting out younger made you a bit more resistant to overwhelm as well? Because I'm not saying that you've got more energy than me, but I'm starting.
Julia:To feel my age 100%. I think the younger you are, the more excited and passionate you get about things and you obviously have more energy. And it's like, I would spend nearly 24 hours just on my computer going, oh, my God, this is so cool. Oh, my God, let's learn as much as I can. And you've got that drive because you're like, I've got my whole life ahead of me. This is how I envision my life. This is the thing I'm working towards. And it's like, I know I can achieve this. And by you actually working on it, you're like, oh, my God, this is possible. And then you get your first notice and it's like, this is what they were talking about, the journey. I was like, yes, I've started. So it was more of a different approach. But you do get overwhelmed. I think everyone reaches overwhelm in different stages of their business. I hit mine later down the line because I realized what I thought I was going to expect. And then what was my reality was two very different things. And it was like, I got myself twelve HMOs within my first year and I was like, oh, my God. The journey there was incredible. I was like, this is great. And then you get hit with like, oh, shit, I need to deal with this and I need to deal with that. And I'm like, I don't like doing that. I was like, I just like the money aspect. I was like, Can I just get the money and do nothing and go on holiday? And it's like, no, I actually need to work for this. It's not like they say, you do it once and then you can go away and you can live your best life income. No, it doesn't happen. You need to really work for it or systemize it.
Athena:I'm talking to loads of people about that at the moment because they all say, oh, I think the hardest bit is going to be getting the first deal and getting the deal. I'm like, no, that's the easy bit. The hardest bit is managing the properties and actually doing the job you're meant to do. It's not easy. It's not even properties, it's people and people, absolutely.
Simon:I think we all have our different experience because I don't deal with the people, so I'm like basically everything.
Athena:So.
Sophie:How about you, Simon?
Simon:Well, starting out, you and I were working together from the word go, weren't we? And you opened the pipeline, trying to get deals and getting our first properties on. You were working full time and doing all of that. And then I was the only earner in the house, so I was working full time at the ambulance service, in the control room as a dispatcher, which isn't necessarily a salary that you can raise. You can have a house of four people living on and doing shifts as well. So you were working really hard. It was locked down and you had the kids full time as well at home, so you were juggling all of that. I was going away and working shifts and then sleeping half the time when I was back and then the rest of the time, once we had properties on board, I was using my days off to go out and do the maintenance and the refurbs because our first couple of houses, like all of them, needed a touch of work doing just.
Julia:A splash of paint.
Simon:Just a splash of paint. So, yeah, mine was more just the physical overwhelm because it was, yeah, twelve hour shifts and then coming off, having my day of sleep, then going out and doing fairly physical work.
Athena:Exactly. And that's what I was referring to at the beginning, which is this whole burnout thing, like, when do you actually get time to rest? Especially when you've got children involved in that as well. There literally is no time for yourself.
Julia:You don't rest, you keep going.
Simon:Also, I remember that I also had a little fun side hustle, which everyone also refers to as being a limitless catch pit, which is Uber Eats. I love it being an Uber Eats driver.
Sophie:Well, the reality is, you have to do what you do to keep going. So we reached a point where we had about six properties, and it was paying our basic expenses, but not quite. And I was like, we really need to get Simon in the business. He was still doing shift work and he was due to work all over Christmas, like a really depressing, we might see you for an hour on Boxing Day. And we wanted to get down to Cornwall. And it was like I said to Simon, look, if you quit in December, I reckon I can get two more properties in the next two months and we'll be able to pay you. But in those two months, you might need to get a side hustle and just do Uber Eats. But we'd have Christmas together. And he was like, yeah, I'll do it. So for a month or two, he went out, like every Friday and Saturday night. Didn't you like mainly delivering McDonald's to students?
Simon: Yeah, I remember standing in a McDonald's in Shirley at about 11:30 at night, just going, this is going to be so worth it one day. And not really believing it, but trusting.
Sophie:It and just going there's a lot.
Athena:Of trusting the process in all of this. I talk about it all the time to myself and to mentees. I always say trust the process because I think you have to. I think if you're going to do this, there is an element where you will definitely have days where, let's face it, I've definitely had them. I don't know if you girls and Simon, you have where you just go, what am I doing? Is this actually a good idea? I'm not so sure. And you just have to say to yourself, trust the process. And I said to you yesterday, didn't I? And I think I said to you the other day, Sophie, I said, you know, that meme of like when someone's cutting into the cliff and they're getting close to a diamond and they're just about to hit the diamond and then they go, oh, do you know what? I'm going to turn back and I'm going to go away because this is too hard. And they were so close to hitting it. I try and use that analogy all the time of just keep going, it will happen. And I always say if you do 1% every day, 1% of consistency every day, you will naturally get less overwhelmed and you'll just move forward. And as soon as you start to move forward, you will naturally feel less overwhelmed because you'll be seeing the result 100%.
Julia:But also coming back to what Simon said about the whole Uber Eats, I actually think it's a good thing for us to experience those things because it motivates you more. It's like, I'm not going to be a McDonald's at midnight for this reason. And when I was 17 and I had twelve HMOs, they only just started making me money. It also felt weird for me to not do anything. So I got myself delivery. I did also Uber Eats and I did Amazon, which was so cool over COVID as well because it got you out the house. But it's like looking back at know, I was like, I probably still have the accounts. And it's like, how crazy is that? Because you know, like it's just crazy looking back where you started and where you are. And it's actually humbling and nice because you're like, you know what, I started from the bottom. I worked my way up and I worked some ridiculous shift. I would do like Amazon during the day and then I would do delivery in the evening. And it was just because I felt like it. And I was like, I enjoy this. And now I'm like, would I do that I don't like in my own time. Maybe just for the fun of it. But before it'd be like, oh my God, I need this money. I need that money.
Sophie:You do what you need to do and you work your ass off, don't you?
Athena:Yeah.
Sophie:We were just hustling for a good year, 18 months. And so this leads us on nicely to when you're growing your business. Because starting it is all good. You start setting it up, you start getting your first deals. But then as it grows, as we've said so many times on the podcast, you have a million jobs to do. And that really can be overwhelming. I had a moment, was it earlier this year? I think it was like March, April, where let's just say outside pressures really got to me and were, like, piling onto me. And I can't remember what else was happening at the same time. I don't know what. Shit.
Simon:Literally everything.
Sophie:Literally.
Simon:I had a meltdown.
Sophie:Yes.
Simon:So I was putting pressure on you. And were moving. House was on the horizon and yeah, there were all sorts of internal it's.
Sophie:Like the drip, the constant drip, and then it overflows. And I got really overwhelmed one day and Athena called me. She was like, you coming to see me today? And I was like, no, I'm just really sad. I'm just going to stay at home. Just like, crying on the phone. She was like, you're coming out? We're going to have a walk in the forest and then we're going to have lunch together. I will see you in an hour in the new forest. I was like, okay, but I might cry. She went, do you know what? I might cry too.
Julia:That's what we did.
Sophie:So went in the U forest. She was like, okay, you go first. I had a big rant. She had a big rant. And then we had a nice lunch.
Athena:With a G and T with great.
Sophie:But that was really nice because you've got the support. You just get it all out of your system.
Athena:But you need to sometimes you just need someone to just rant to. Yeah. That's all it is, because you feel so much better afterwards. So please, everybody get someone that you can just rant to that really isn't actually someone close to you. Not close to you. I mean, like.
Simon:You should find someone that you actually like.
Athena:No. Is it not a partner? Not a partner. I mean, somebody outside of your family is what I'm trying to say.
Julia:You're just digging yourself.
Simon:The number two shovel, please.
Julia:31St episode was the last we're done now.
Simon:This has been fun.
Sophie:Yeah.
Julia:And.
Sophie:I think as an entrepreneur, we all do too much and we all can work all the time and you just have to put limits. You just have to say, right, our phones don't come upstairs with us in the evening. We leave it in the kitchen. Or I would say limit screen time. Just schedule time for you stop. Because I can just keep going. I'll just put stuff in my phone diary, one after the other after the other. And I said to Simon recently, I've been doing that for six weeks. And on Sunday I stopped and I left my phone at home and I went to the beach with my kids. But other than that, it's just constant. So you just have to make yourself stop because no one else will do that for you.
Julia:I also wish people were more like, honest, because if they gave you an honest perspective, going, you know what, the first year is going to be tough. You're going to do everything yourself. You probably won't be able to outsource because you need the business to make money first. And unless you're going to work even harder as a side hustle to then outsource, it's not going to happen. And then on the second year you'll see it grow and on the third year you'll see the compounding effect and then, and only then, can you start considering going, okay, maybe I can start outsourcing, maybe I can start doing something. And I think if people had more of an honest perspective going, this is what you're getting yourself into, it would really limit people's overwhelm because their expectations would be different. And I think they always tell you at the start, it's like, you're going to get yourself into this business, you're going to do amazingly and you'll be able to outsource and just outsource from the start. It doesn't work like that.
Athena:Do you know what? Speaking really truthfully and honestly, as you just said, I had one of those moments when we started Rooms Bournemouth, I was like, okay, this is great and I can do all the marketing and I can do all these things and this is wonderful. I'm talking to agents. And then we got our rent to rent and it was all going really nicely and we got the tenants in and I was like, oh, I'm really happy in all this. And then suddenly tenants started to speak and I was like, oh, I'm not so sure. And you're like, oh, right, I have to go and do this on a Saturday night, and I have to go and do this on a Monday morning and I really don't want to do any of these things. And then you're thinking to yourself, I want to outsource these things. And then you look at the cash flow and you can't outsource it and you have a moment where you just go, you're just going to have to do it.
Simon:I guess this is my job now.
Athena:Yeah, literally. And as time has gone on, there's almost an acceptance of that where you just at first push back on it and then as time goes on, you're just like, until we can get a lettings manager to do the things that I really don't want to do, this is just the reality of what it is. And I think that's a really good place to be, where you have an acceptance of what is happening. And if you've got to go on a Saturday evening, if you've got to go on a Monday morning, because there will always be tenant demands, I'm sure that all landlords out there will agree with me. Tenants are interesting, so you've always got to be able to do that. And I think that's important to know.
Simon:Plus, tenants are your customers at the end of the day, so you have to be ready to give them a good level of service. You have a responsibility to them. So, yeah, you can always sack stuff off over the weekend, or you can find a way of making it work. So having that decision point of like, okay, do I need to jump in the car and sort this out? Or with just a bit of honest communication, can I say I can do this next week?
Athena:It depends on the urgency, doesn't it?
Simon:Oh, yeah.
Athena:If the roof is falling down, that's urgent. If it's a flickering light, that might be able to wait till Monday, it just depends on all of those things. I was also just going to say that I've got a real thing at the moment with growth when it comes to mobile. Sophie, you were talking about mobiles earlier. So my biggest thing has been that I've almost been addicted to my mobile phone. And I don't know if listeners can kind of understand that in a way where you're just like, your phone becomes your life, it becomes your business, and so your phone pings. And I'm very reactionary if my phone pings. I've got to do something there and then I've got to respond, I've got to do it. And I've almost had to learn how to rewire my brain to not do that. And what was wonderful is I'm now taking steps to kind of take a step back from that.
Athena: So weekends I'm now saying, well, I'll work Monday to Friday and I will take a weekend off. So this weekend I went to the Chili Festival. And what was wonderful about it was In a field where there was no signal, so I had absolutely no choice but to switch off because I couldn't receive any text, I couldn't receive any calls. And when you're in a relationship, particularly, I don't know if you guys have this, you've got to almost learn that the other person in the room is watching you. And if you're giving all of your attention to your phone and not to that person, it can really affect the relationship because they're like, are you going to give me any attention? Or are you literally just all about your phone? And it's like 10:00 at night. And he's like, why are you on your phone?
Athena: And I'm like, because I'm answering these emails. Because I'm answering these instagram messages. And he's like, Athena, it's 10:00, you don't need to do that. And it's like just learning. So I just wanted to open up about and just be really honest that I don't know if anybody else is having that, but it is really important to take a break and take a breath because it's actually much better for your mental health as well. So I just wanted to put that out there to listeners.
Sophie:Yeah, 100% agree with that. So we've now reached a stage where you've grown your business, got a few properties in your portfolio, and it's about maintaining it and managing those tenants and keeping the communications and keeping on top of the maintenance and all. The contractors and marketing and advertising and sales and cash flow and finance and admin and all the things. And then you've got young children. Is that overwhelming for anyone here? Like, what can we do?
Julia:So that's where my overwhelm started. The excitement went because I think the excitement was in the journey. It was in acquiring it, the ups and downs. And it's like, oh, this is exciting. New houses, wow, keys. Like, wow, paint. It was really cool. And then it was like, oh my God, I'm so young. This is what people were talking about. It's a big responsibility. And I was like, I've agreed to take on this responsibility. I can't let them down. And I've never set up bills before. How the hell do we do this? And it was like, does council tax just randomly know my sort of account number and take out my money? Like, how does it work? And then you've got YouTube and you're trying to learn the most basic stuff that they actually don't teach you in school. And you're like, oh, okay, I've actually got a lot of admin, and it's not as easy as they say. And then you sort of start I think the word is disbelieving in yourself because the reason why I was confident at the start is because I knew I'd make it a success. I knew that no matter what you throw at me, I will be able to get through it and I'll do it and I'll achieve what I put my mind to. But then when you start getting hit with things that maybe you lack knowledge in you're, like, you lose confidence in yourself because you're like, I don't know this. Am I doing this right? And it was like, oh, okay, this is a reality check. This is what I wasn't expecting. No one tells you that those little things add up and no one told you that you're going to have to deal with them one day. And it's like, okay, right, so then you sort of need to really develop your mindset.
Julia: And it was like, okay, this right now is hard, but maybe it's one of those dips and how can we get out of it? Okay, maybe I can add an extra hour on YouTube learning how to set up bills. An extra hour on YouTube to learn about systemizing the business, and how can I make sure that tenants don't call me at like 03:00 A.m. Saying they're locked out? And how could I overcome that and what processes could I have in place? And it's almost like seeing how you can systemize it yourself before outsourcing it to someone else through just having processes and systems in place. And that can be quite overwhelming because there's a lot of processes and systems that you need to put in place, especially when your business is so new and you've just acquired a bunch of properties and it's like, okay, right, I actually should have done this one by one, but no one tells you this.
Julia:So the overwhelm was big.
Athena: There's a lot of systems and processes out there that vary. So a lot of people will say, well, let's say service accommodation. They'll say, Well, I use smoothoo, and someone else will say, Well, I use uplisting. And someone else will say, Well, I use this. And you're like well, which 01:00 a.m I supposed to use? So that in itself can be overwhelming. When you're talking about processes, it's like, well, which one should I be using?
Julia:It's also like the test and error. Like, you're not going to be perfect at your first time, and as much as you wish you were, it's not going to happen because you need to trial and error it. And I think the overwhelm can come from that as well, because you're like, am I doing something wrong? What is going on here? Why is everything that I'm trying going wrong? And it's almost like if you keep telling yourself that's the wrong mindset, you should be going, okay, try the first one. Didn't work out. How many more do we have to try? Let's start taking them off until we find the one. And it's just yeah, I would say my overwhelm came when I got the properties, when I was like, oh my God, this is actually hard work. It's not as easy as they say. And yeah, because of my age, I never lived in my own home. And then I got loads of other properties and I was like, oh, okay, how do we do this? So it's a learning thing, and I think with knowledge comes confidence and power. And it's really true what they say because I believe you can be confident in achieving anything you put your mind to as long as you have the right knowledge. So maybe a way that I overcame my what's the word? Overwhelm. Overwhelm.
Simon:I identify with it so little, I don't even know what it's called.
Sophie:You were really in the flow there. It was really good.
Julia:So the way that I decided to overcome my overwhelm is actually through gaining more knowledge. And the way that I did that is I thought, I feel really alone right now, and maybe that's why I feel overwhelmed as well. And I started reaching out to people and I started getting involved in networking events and I felt like I was a part of a community and I was like, oh my God, I'm not the only one with these problems. And this person can help me with my problems, and I know how to help them with their problems. And you bounce off each other and it honestly is so important to be part of a community and network who support you and who are on the same page and who can relate to you. And I think that's the thing that really helped me. And I would say it to anyone out there. Get yourself around the right people. Because if you think that you've got big problems, there might be someone out there who's dealing with ten times more bigger problems, and it almost makes you feel better. And then it's like, you can exchange knowledge, you can help each other. And that's the beauty in property. It's not like, oh, my God, I'm not letting you have any of my properties. I want all the HMOs in the city. There is enough for everyone. And you're willing to help each other and you're willing to also overcome each other's problems if you can. So I surround myself by the right people. I got involved in networking events. I started co hosting events because I wanted to be around the people, so that if a problem came up, if I didn't have the knowledge, I would know. Someone in that room of 60 people would know. And I can stand up and I can be asked stupid questions and feel comfortable enough that I will overcome this problem because I'm not alone. So there's a lot of things that you guys can do to overcome overwhelm, and everyone deals with it in different ways. But knowledge is power and your network is literally amazing.
Sophie:Yes, I love it. And what I was hearing from you as well, is like, there's always going to be problems. Just embrace failure, expect failure. Just learn how to roll with it. Like, we grew our HMO portfolio at the same time. Didn't really quickly, and we've just got stories, haven't we? You can really mess things up. We've really messed things up, haven't we?
Simon:Sophie is now looking at me quite directly.
Sophie:There's just been failures all over the place. But we just learn and we just roll with it. You've changed massively, Athena. Like, the first couple of issues we had, you were like, oh, my God, what are you going to do? This is terrible. And now you're, how do we solve this? This has happened, right? I'll get onto this, okay, and you've.
Athena:Just switched my problem solving skills, I have to say, have massively improved when I'm just like, okay, this has happened, what can I do? And then I'll just be like, so if I've sorted this, just like, okay, great.
Julia:That's what I was celebrating at the start, the aspect of growth. And actually, Athena, you've completely transformed yourself in the past. Like, what? Free flies? And I think that comes with experience.
Sophie:She's blushing.
Julia:But I think that comes with experience. And it's like, you learn. And when you get chucked in the deep end, you're like, oh, my God, there's nothing worse than this. And then you realize there's bigger problems and there's more important things in life than stressing over someone not being able to access their accommodation. So you actually start valuing the little things in life and you go, actually, there's a bigger picture than this. How can we solve it? What way can we go about it? And you just have that switch in your mind. And I think that's what happened with you, Athena, where you went from having mental breakdowns and going, I can't do this, and going, how do you guys do with this? Like, we've only got one, and then going, let's get a few more. You know what? We've gone through it now, we can do it again. It just changes. And it's more like you also learn to control your emotions, because I think we're very emotional human beings, and we let our emotions overtake us sometimes, and we might be having really bad day in our personal life, and we let that affect our business life. And then it's like everything's going wrong when the truth is it's like, no, we just need to control our emotions. Like, can we breathe? Can we take five minutes off? Because we always say we can't take five minutes off. This needs to be done now. But actually, would it be more beneficial to take five minutes off or a day off, like you said, to go to the beach to recharge, refresh, and then you have a whole new perspective because you're no longer that overwhelmed.
Athena:Yeah, it's really important. I remember there was one day when were sat in the kitchen, weren't we? My kitchen, and were just doing we actually had a lot of problems already on our plate for some of the HMOs, and then we got some calls where to do with the it was actually the keybox situation. Then went on top of that, and I looked at you and I was just like, Sophie, I don't know if I can do this. I was like, I really don't know if can. You were like, yes, you can. I was like, Sophie, I think I might need to tap out of this.
Julia:Sophie, what do you do?
Sophie:You just look, so what do you do? And I went, keep going, keep going.
Athena:Athena Because, you know, like a pressure pot, and I'm sure lots of listeners will relate to this, like a pressure pot, and it builds, and it builds. And it wasn't just one day. It wasn't just two days. It wasn't just three days. It was about a week. And it just built and built. And then it got to the top of the pressure pot, and the valve was still closed. And I was like, okay, I can just about hold on, just about I'm going to keep going. And then another thing got added, and I just went, I'm out. And the valve literally just went.
Simon:And it didn't matter what it was or how big it was. It didn't matter one thing too many.
Athena:I could have dropped my piece of toast on the floor, and it could have just all hell could have broken loose. So what I'm trying to say to the listeners is that you're not alone. We all feel like this. Everybody feels like this. Just reach out to people in your network. It's so important. And you know what really does it for me, whenever I think this is so much, because we're taking on a lot at the moment, we talk about growth, so we're now building the businesses. We've got so many various businesses that are happening, and you're like, okay, well, how do I dedicate my time to this? How do I dedicate my time to this? And it's a lot when you're trying to grow, because you are a one man band trying to do everything. And the thing that gets me through it is, Athena, you don't have children yet. Imagine people who have children. And that is literally what gets me through it. And a lot of my mentees have got children. And I say to every single one of them, I take my hat off to you, because I'm stressed, I'm overwhelmed, I've got a lot on my plate. I can't imagine having little ones running around. So to you two, I take my hat off to you. Because to have children and try to do this is a lot, and I have full respect.
Sophie:Absolute chaos, isn't it?
Simon:It can be.
Sophie:I think the baby years are the hardest. Like having under fives or under twos. You're tired all the time. You might be up at night feeding the baby. We were indonesia when our kids were born, and then were doing, like a very high well, were doing air traffic control, is what were doing. And Simon was sitting some exams and sleeping in the living room because one of our kids was up all night and he needed sleep and stuff. And it was just mad, wasn't it?
Simon:Looking back, it was described. But I still kind of agree with Athena, because at least at that time, it was compartmentalised work. My instructors weren't going to ring me up in the middle of the night and be like, Control some planes now. Whereas now, if we had babies, or really little ones, I think it'd be a bit harder. Our kids have got to that age where they're self contained, they sleep through the got well, we've just moved in with Sophie's parents, so we haven't got live in childcare. But if we did need to drop things, for whatever reason, we so we've timed it just about right.
Sophie:Yeah, but every week we sit down together on a Sunday and we plan the week and we plan school pickups, we plan the clubs. Who's picking up which kid, when, who's going to do the shop, let's do the meal plan. So it's like another business, isn't it? Yeah, and they're very demanding customers.
Athena:And this is like when Julia was saying about her age, I actually think it's a massive advantage. And myself as well, like, I'm not that old in the respect we're so old. I didn't mean it like that. That's the second dig of the podcast.
Sophie:Digging, having commitments.
Athena:Yes. So, for example, I've always said, everybody who knows me will know. I've always said I want to build my businesses now because I want to have children at 35. I've always said this. That is my dream and my goal. And so that is the reason why I am working so hard now, is because I've got the time. And I can almost be selfish with my time to do it. People who are trying to do it, who have got babies. I was mentoring someone the other day, and literally she's like, can we just stop for a moment? Because I can hear my baby crying. And I was like, yeah, of course. And I just can't imagine how hard it is to want to better yourself and to do more, but to have responsibility of the baby or the children. And so I'm just giving a shout out to all the mums and dads out there. I think you're all incredible. And yeah, just keep going and reach out to people because they're all there to help.
Sophie:Yeah. And my top tip is play. Like, playing with my kids is very mindful, and you can just chuck your phone in another room and just do some painting or some Lego or something. And yeah, there's some of my favorite.
Athena:Things you ever send me is when you send me, like, you and Eva, like, playing together or making a unicorn.
Sophie:And I'm like, oh, I love because we started our own business in order to spend more time with the kids. But yet again, in that first year, I would pick the kids up, bring them home, be like, okay, Mummy's working.
Julia:Now for a bit.
Sophie:And I'd be like, what? Why am I doing this? The kids are now seeing me working.
Simon:Because it doesn't matter how much you explain it to a kid that it's not going to be like, oh, I understand your spreadsheets are very important to you right now. That doesn't really matter to a child. Just sees, okay, I'm less important. And so, yeah, drop the phone. Says, you know what solid? That can just wait. I'm now building a sandcastle, and it's going to be amazing.
Sophie:Yeah, but it pulls you in so many directions. Like, right now is school holidays, so you want to spend really good time with them, but then you're like, I've got a website that's crashing. Our shop isn't working. The tenants need me. We've got maintenance stuff going on, and you're just everywhere, so you have to definitely I don't even know how to deal with it. Grow arms a bit. Be an octopus. Delegate.
Simon:Delegate.
Sophie:We're now looking people around you who understand.
Julia:I also think it almost teaches you to handle more pressure because it can be really tough and really hard. And I think also, in some ways, it could be an advantage in business because the most successful people that I know in general are people who know how to handle pressure very well. And it's almost what they say, where the more pressure you learn to handle, the more things you can do and juggle, and then because you can juggle more things, you can make more money, and you can then delegate more and you can grow more. So I think having children is almost like it's a lot of pressure, and it's a learning curve where if you learn to accomplish and nail it, which you guys are doing very well, by the way, it's like you can sort of, I don't know, utilize that in your business as well. You can be like, you know what? I've actually just know built sandcastles with my children. And I've also dealt with, like, you had something really upsetting happening with your son when you were all the way in Vietnam, and it's like, that was a lot of stress, a lot of pressure on you and both of you, to be honest with you, and you still had your business. That doesn't stop. You can't just go, I need to be there for my family. This needs to pause. You can't do that. So I think that's also grown you both as people and in business in general as well. Yeah.
Sophie: I think when it's 04:00 a.m. And your baby's crying and you're like, it's your turn. No, it's your turn. Those moments, they make you or break.
Athena:You, they make you human.
Sophie:Yes. So, yeah, parents are superheroes. Absolutely. Shall we go on to property disasters?
Julia:Yes, let's.
Sophie:I feel like a lot have happened in the last month.
Athena:So much has happened.
Julia:Yeah.
Sophie:In my world, we've had three houses whose washing machines have broken in the last two weeks. Like, they're just not draining or they're just shutting or they're just breaking down.
Athena:One of those was ours.
Sophie:Yeah.
Julia:I had a washing machine break in my freehold block of five flats.
Sophie:It's the season for washing machines.
Athena:People just want to keep washing their clothes.
Sophie:Yeah. Can you not? How about you guys?
Julia:So mine is lawyers. If you're a lawyer and you're listening to this podcast you can turn off right now, because yeah, it's not everyone, but I just think they live in their own little world, and communicating between my lawyer is amazing. My lawyer is amazing. But it's communicating with the other party of the lawyer, and it's more like trying to understand the situation and stay in control when it's the lawyers who are in control. So we're just dealing with charges on a property that we're going ahead with. And we had a first charge on the council, and then were planning on paying off that charge to then reinstate the first charge for our investors who are funding the deal. But for some reason, as we go off to pay off the charge, well, the lawyer does, the council says, we don't have a charge, but then on the land registry, there is a charge. So then trying to explain that to the investor's lawyer, it's very bizarre and hard and it's like, well, you're putting the situation of the house in the council's hand and the land registries, so it's like, we're going to wait a while. So, yeah, that was a lot of stress.
Sophie:Is that affecting the rest of the timeline of the deal?
Julia:But we're really lucky with our investors. They're very understanding and to be honest, they're just living life. They've just gone on a family holiday to Disneyland, Florida, and they're loving life.
Sophie:This is kind of background.
Julia:Yeah, but it's like, at the end of the day, for us, it's like, we just want this deal done because you don't know what's happening with the market. It is a renovation to then sell and it's like, oh, my God, can we just get this across the line, please? So, yeah, that was one bit of a learning curve. Like lawyers, communication, visiting lawyers. And I've learned to be very good at pestering them, so then you get things done a lot quicker. And it's like if you're close by the office, just pop in, because they probably won't answer your phone because they know they need to do it, but they might be working on it. But it's not as easy as they say.
Athena:That's really hard. I've had it before with solicitors myself and you're absolutely right for what you said. You can pay for the best solicitor to be your solicitor, but if the other person does not do the same thing, all that happens is your solicitor keeps saying to you when you chase your solicitor, say, I've chased that solicitor. And you're like, how can we move this forward? And I've actually had it before where I've had to buy a property and I've actually said to the other person, I need you to change your solicitor. You need to tell them to change their solicitor. Because they were just so bad. They did in the end, because they literally weren't responding for over a month and it was delaying the wholesale. So in the end, it got fixed. But there can be some really bad.
Julia:Ones out there, something that's not recommended, but it works beautifully. And I've actually got this advice from someone else who does property very well, but I'm not going to name drop. What they do is if it takes a while, they will email and they will CC in everyone involved in the party. They will email the opposite lawyer because you're not meant to do that. So then that lawyer will message your lawyer going, please do not get them to contact us and everyone, because it's all meant to be individual parties. And what happens is they proceed with the deal a lot quicker because they realize we've just outed them. And it's like you're not meant to communicate because then you sort of expose everyone. But it works wonders. And I do not recommend this, but.
Athena:It works top tip. Top tip of not being recommended.
Sophie:Are you ready for a listener's question?
Athena:We are.
Sophie:So we had a listener's question on Instagram last week, which is what motivational and property books do you recommend?
Athena:Well, the obvious one of motivational books that everybody should read who's looking to start in property or business from a mindset point of view is Rich Dad, Poor dad. I'm sure the whole world has basically read that book, but if you haven't, please do and Think and grow rich. For a mindset, business is a really good one.
Julia:You see, I agree with that. I think and Grow Rich is great for mindset, but it's also a lot of practical stuff as well. And you get to know property and crypto and all sorts. But for me, what's complete, like I used to say, rich dad, poor dad, but it's completely changed it for me. And it's now the power of positive thinking. Nice. It's completely transformed my life because it's like, at the end of the day, you can have all the knowledge if you do not have the right mindset, you'll never utilize the knowledge in the right way, and you'll never approach situations the right way. So I think that book is actually more important than Richard Poor dad and more important than Think and Grow Rich. And for me, I'm dyslexic so think and grow Rich. Oh, my God, that took forever to read.
Athena:Yeah, to be fair, I'm the same, so I'm dyslexic so to actually answer honestly, I love those books, but I'm more of a podcast girl. I listen to podcasts and all of the long journeys. I listen to a lot of Stephen Bartlett, who I absolutely adore. There was an amazing money one, actually, recently, which I loved, which we can put in the show notes and things, but from a mindset point of view, girls in Property, Pod and some other ones are just brilliant. So try and find yourself some really good podcasts.
Julia:I also think Steve Harvey is bloody incredible.
Athena:Yes, Steve's.
Julia:Great. We listened to him in the car and you were like, I forgot about that. And he says things and he's a comedian, but he also does motivational talks. And he has lived a crazy life. He lived in his car for about three years, and he's now a multimultimillionaire, and he's doing very well for himself. And he's all about the positive mindset. He's all about how to make things work when the whole world's against you. And he just keeps repeating the same principles. But it's principles that if you constantly remember, you'll never go wrong. So definitely recommend checking him out.
Athena:And so if you're more of a reader, which books would you recommend?
Sophie:I'm trying to think what I've read recently, I read Rich Dad, Poor dad, which was great. And it teaches you, like, assets. Liabilities I thought it was a bit ugh. Poor people do this. Like, maybe people don't have the opportunities you had. Robert oh, I read it, but read it with a pinch of salt. I was just looking up on my phone the other day. I watched Brene Brown on Netflix. Do you know she like, you should watch her special. It's called the call to courage. It's on Netflix. And she's kind of like a motivational speaker. She's massive in America, but it's just full of nuggets. Amazing nuggets. So that's on my list for this week.
Athena:Brilliant.
Sophie:Yeah. There we go.
Athena:Hope that helps.
Simon:Simon I'm not Dyslexic, but I'm an incredibly slow reader. I think I may only be able to read another 15 books in my lifetime, so I have to choose very carefully. And I prefer fiction. So, like you girls, I kind of prefer a podcast as well. And my recommendation would be the huberman lab. So. Professor Andrew Huberman. He's from Stanford University. He does very deep dives into all sorts of scientific protocols for all areas of life. If you go onto the pod, if you've got anything to do with sleep, mindset, nutrition, he's got podcasts that cover all of it. All of them are bookmarked, so you can skip to bits that are helpful and they're just amazing.
Athena:I'm going to go give that a try.
Simon:All the stuff I do around cold exposure and sleep and my eating and now trying to stop drinking are all from his podcast because it's all science backed and it's really actionable stuff.
Athena:Wonderful.
Sophie:Thank you so much for listening to the episode today. All of our details are in the show notes and we'll speak to you very soon. Bye.