Master Your Sleep: Essential Tips for Entrepreneurs with Award Winning Sleep Coach Sam Sadighi

Welcome to today's episode of Girls in Property, where we're bringing you something a little different. How many of our listeners struggle with sleep? As entrepreneurs, we know firsthand how crucial sleep is for our personal and professional growth.

In this episode, Athena sits down with award-winning sleep coach Sam Sadighi , who helps individuals and families reclaim their sleep, allowing them to focus on what truly matters.

As Athena often says, we are more than just property investors and business owners. This episode takes a holistic approach, centring on how improving our health & sleep can enhance our businesses in return. 

Get ready for a straightforward, no-nonsense episode packed with tips and tricks for achieving easy sleep solutions.

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Transcript

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Hello everyone. Good morning and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. I hope you're all having a fabulous Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on what day of the week you are listening to this. And I hope you're all doing something wonderful. So today I have something slightly different for you for the podcast, because it's always important to really mix things up and just get lots of different people to come on and really talk about different aspects of things. So today, what I'd love to do is introduce you to someone. very, very cool, who is doing something absolutely amazing in her field of industry at the moment. So I'd love to introduce you to Sam from Easy Sleep Solutions. Hi, Sam. Hi Athena, how you doing? I'm good. Thank you so much for coming on this podcast. I've been dying to get you on because I think this is a topic that as entrepreneurs, we all need to talk about quite frankly. Yes, yes, absolutely. I would say everyone, not just entrepreneurs, but definitely as an entrepreneur myself, it is something that can just absolutely get kicked to the wayside because we're so busy. We are so busy, absolutely. And I think what a lot of people don't realize is, is how important sleep actually is to then the productivity of the rest of us and our health. So could you please first introduce yourself in whatever way you'd like to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about what you do within the sleep world, but also a little bit about you as a person. And then let's see where the conversation goes from there. Awesome! So I am Sam from Easy Sleep Solutions and I am, my fancy term is certified sleep practitioner but that's also sleep consultant, sleep coach and I'm certified to work with babies, children, teens and adults so basically cradle to grave really. I got into the work that I do about five years ago, in fact five years, business birthday five years next month. And it was basically because my youngest, who is now seven, wasn't a big fan of sleep, unfortunately, unlike the rest of the household. And it was one of those where I had a conversation with a sleep consultant, got some hints and tips, and it revolutionized our lives. Basically then thought, this is something that I could do. So trained initially to help families with children that didn't sleep very well. and then very quickly realized that it was just sleep in general just got me really passionate, really fired up. So I then went on to qualify for cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia for adults, as well as various other qualifications relating to sleep, just because sleep is not luxury. And it's really easy for us to think, well, I need to get eight hours, but why do we need to get eight hours? Is it eight hours that we need? you know, you're pregnant with kids and everyone goes, well, you know, good luck not getting any sleep. It doesn't have to be like that. It really, you know, the days of people wearing sleeplessness as a badge of honor should be well and truly buried. There's no, there's no reason why we can't get good sleep because it's going to affect us physically, mentally and emotionally if we're not, which. no doubt I will talk at length about. So I am a mum of two, seven and nine, born on the same day, two years apart, so just one day to remember, so that's always quite useful. And I'm based in West London near Twyfordham. Love that. What a fab introduction. And do you know what? It's one of those, isn't it? Where sleep can be a really interesting conversation. Because a lot of actually, when I listen to entrepreneurs nowadays, who I listen to a lot on their podcasts, they actually stress the importance of sleep. And I think that we've all been a victim of this. I'm sure we have. Where we have said, well, I just need to get this done and this done and I've done it myself. I have stayed up till God knows what time. because I'm so far behind in my work and I'm not going to bed until 3am. I'm waking up at 7am and you're just, you know, and it's like, I can manage on limited sleep. And actually what we're doing is we're not actually giving our bodies time to recover and time to rest. And I think now I'm really learning about how important sleep actually is to be better and be more productive as it were. What's your, just before I go into celebrations, just out of curiosity, what is your... your opinion about this 5am club? Have you heard of it? I don't think, maybe it works for some people, but I will not be doing it myself and I certainly would not be recommending my clients do it. love that. I was such that was such a diplomatic answers like don't recommend it. Okay, perfect. And then in terms of celebrations at the moment, Sam, what are you celebrating at the moment? I'm celebrating the fact that the sun is finally shining in West London. Quite frankly, I'm a simple soul and I'm solar powered and I am just loving the fact that the sun is actually shining. I love that. So is your house solar panelled? I thought you were like, we're running out of energy because we've got solar panels. We use candles basically for nine months a year. Yeah. And yeah, do all the washing by hand. No, it's... absolutely love that. Do you know, I am, I speak to people about this actually, because it's, I haven't been diagnosed with it or anything, but I'm convinced I have that seasonal SA, sad, you know, SAD, I think it's seasonal efficiency disorder or affective disorder. Sorry. Yeah. So seasonal affective disorder. And I'm convinced I have it because. people tell me, and I don't know if this is just everybody, I don't know, it might just be everybody's the same, but my mood completely changes in the sunshine and people have said to me before, Athena, you're a much nicer person in the sunshine. Yeah, no, no, no, my world is not diplomatic at all. They're like, you're a much nicer person in the sunshine or you're a much happier person in the sunshine. And it's so true. I know a lot of people who love, you know, the cold and the autumns and getting under a blanket and having hot chocolate because I'm half Mediterranean. I've got half Mediterranean blood. I'm like you, I'm like a solar battery. I need to have sunshine. And I was really fortunate enough actually where... Just so happens the week where it was absolutely miserable weather in the UK, I was actually in Greece for a week. But I will just say this, it was one extreme to the other because it was 38 to 40 degrees. So it was ultra hot, ultra hot. And a lot of the people in the UK were saying to me, because I was saying it's so hot. And they were like, I'll swap you. Look at this weather. So sunshine is a wonderful thing to celebrate and I think should be celebrated. I look forward to having more of it. And I think actually a lot of people, you will notice, you know, if I pop to the supermarket later, everyone's in a far better mood. People smile, they say hello. Just generally people's mood improves when the sun is out, as opposed to when you're there dripping wet and you know, everything just becomes a bit of a bun fight everywhere. And you know, even when you're driving, people aren't as polite, you know, they're not going to let you out and you know, just all of it. So yeah. sunshine away. feel like people have been very, very British recently talking about the weather. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. love that. And then what am I celebrating? So what I'm celebrating is today is actually because I will have recorded this episode about a week before it actually comes out. So I'm celebrating the fact that today the Girls and Property YouTube actually launched, which is absolutely massive. People have been telling me that I need to get on different platforms for so long. They're like, there's only so far Instagram and Girls and Property will take you. Sorry, Instagram and Facebook will take you forward, Girls and Property. And now I've decided to go onto YouTube. So what's going to be amazing is the fact that if people actually want to listen to this podcast, they can also see us having the conversation as well. yeah, Sam, I should have told you, you were going to be on camera. Hahahaha! So, so yeah, so they can literally watch us and what I'd love what I've always wanted for Girls in Property and people have said this to me in Messengers and I really want to it to go even further than that than that. A lot of people say, Athena, your podcast keeps me company. Your podcast is one where I love listening to it whilst I'm doing the washing up on things. And I'm just thinking I would love for people to really have that where it does keep them company and almost like be on a fly on the wall in our conversation. as if they're there having tea around a kitchen table. So YouTube is massive. Obviously there's huge potential with YouTube as well. So that launches today. We're going to be doing it where we're going to be releasing episodes every other day and shorts and reels. And then what we're doing is every Thursday, we're going to be doing throwback episodes as well. So the older episodes, because you know, the older ones we've got as well. So... It's going to have a bit of the new vibes, a bit of the old vibes and just good vibes all around. So I'm going to celebrate the launch of YouTube. Yay. Yay. Okay, Sam, so sleep. Let's talk about sleep. Okay, so first and foremost, so just to go back and reiterate what you said before and how you actually became a sleep practitioner, as it were. So was it to do with the fact that your children weren't sleeping? Is that how it came about? Do you want to just go back over that again? Yeah, so basically because my eldest slept like an absolute dream, pun intended, but my youngest just didn't. She would be awake for hours every night and it was very much a case of I just thought well, you know, because her sister slept so well, it's just calmer, you know, you can't have two kids that are going to sleep well. But kind of then realized... you know, I hadn't wanted to bother contacting a steep consultant because I had friends whose baby was waking every 20 minutes and things like that. So it was like, well, they're the ones that have a real problem. They're the ones that really need the help. I know she's going to be awake between two and four every night, you know, so I can plan my day accordingly, my night accordingly. But I wasn't, that was just foolish really, you know, actually there was a really big problem and it was a impacting her development as well. You know, she was just too tired to do stuff and it really sort of had this knock on effect on the whole family. So once she started to sleep well, everyone starts to sleep well and life just becomes a lot happier really. You know, it does affect us physically, mentally and emotionally if we're not getting enough sleep. So, you know, relationships suffer. trying to work. I mean, I was trying to do my dissertation for my psychology degree and literally just downing coffee just to try and stay awake and try to power through it. Had I known then what I know now, I would have just nipped it in the bud and got it sorted long before. And there's no shame in saying that there's a problem because actually, we all, I read something this morning that something like nine in 10 people in the UK have a difficulty with sleep at some point. That's massive, that's 90 % of the population. And yet, so many of us just think, well it's okay, you know, this is just how it's got to be. And like you were saying, you know, yes absolutely, there are times, and I put my hand up, you know, there are times that I will. burn midnight oil just to get something done. You know, I've got these five day sleep academies when I was creating them, it was, I publicized that they were going to be available on a certain date and it was just me doing it. So there were late nights getting it done. However, it was a really short period of time and I knew that that's what I needed to do. Whereas if we are consistently feeling like we're having to work late every night, then we maybe need to take a step back. and realise that maybe things aren't working quite the way that we want them to because cognitively we're not as sharp when we've not slept. So we then are more likely to make mistakes. We push off the things that are hard, cognitively difficult for us to do. We push those back. They get further down the to -do list. You finally do it, but you don't do it very well. And it's just this really vicious cycle. that actually if you can kind of press pause, get some sleep and then come back to it, you may find that you don't have to work those long hours because the hours that you do want to work, you're more productive. So I'm not saying that it's gonna revolutionize your business by getting sleep, but it's certainly gonna help just making sure that you're well rested. And as I say, then if we're not sleeping well, our relationships suffer. We don't, I know certainly, because I've suffered with... insomnia at various times as well and I know when I'm really sleep deprived the last thing I want to do is go out and meet someone at nine o 'clock at night. I mean now I'm quite happy to just admit that no actually sorry I'm on PJs by then I have a video call with you or you know if you if you spring it on me then maybe I'll do it if you give me more than a week's notice I will find an excuse not to come out at nine o 'clock because I'm miserable but you know I think we... yeah, we basically just need to think about how that lack of sleep is affecting us. because we aren't the people that we want to be much like, you know, conversation about the sunshine. We're nicer people when the sun shines, but we're also nicer people when we've had a good night's sleep as well. 100 % absolutely. And do you ever have it where people come to you and I'm sure that the listeners will relate to this because this definitely happens to me and I don't know if other listeners have this, where you'll be really tired, like really, really tired, your eyes will be heavy and you're like, right, I need to go to bed, this is what I need to do. And then you'll brush your teeth and you'll lie down. And suddenly, as soon as you lie down, you have a thousand thoughts running through your brain. And you literally say to yourself, please stop talking, please let me go to sleep, I thought you were tired and it's almost like suddenly now that you've told yourself it's time to go to sleep, suddenly you're like I didn't write that down and that needs to be done tomorrow and that needs to be done next week and then suddenly you're what an hour and a half later and you're still not asleep, you know have you ever heard people say that to you? to me as well, it happens to the best of us. I mean, any person in sleep will say the same thing. No one sleeps well every single night. So I have that, I mean, I slept really well last night, thankfully, especially now that I know this has been recorded. But no one sleeps well every single night and stress is probably one of the main things that keeps us awake these days. and things like that where you are so tired, like physically, mentally, the whole thing, but once you're in bed, you don't have that other stimulus of, you know, I'll just... sort the dishwasher out, I'll just do this, I'll just do this. And then suddenly it's just almost your brain's permission to kind of, okay we're gonna open the floodgates now and we're just gonna think about absolutely everything. And sometimes it is that to -do list, it's the, you know, thinking about stuff that's happened or, you know, any sort of negatively toned thinking. But equally, it can be. positive stuff, it can be exciting stuff that then keeps you awake as well. And I think often we can kind of presume that it's going to be stress and it's going to be negativity. And when we talk about mental health, we tend to think of poor mental health, but it can be good mental health as well. I mean, I know that I've had, you know, weeks previously where I've not been able to sleep because I'm really excited about a project or, you know, something that's going on, you know, going on holiday or, you know, and it's stuff like that. it's not just the negative stuff that keeps us awake. It can be positive stuff as well, but it can still keep you awake. So if you are at a particularly, you haven't asked me for a fix for this, but I'm going to give it to you anyway. If you are going through a phase where things are incredibly busy, to -do lists are a really, really good idea. Pen and paper next to the bed is always a really, really good idea. Try not to use your phone to put notes on because with the best will in the world, you are then likely to get sucked in and you're then likely to start looking at other things and that hour and a half then becomes three hours and whatever. So pen and paper next to the bed. I have, Alexis, I can't say it too loudly because there's one in the room. So I will sometimes I have a to -do list on there. So sometimes if I can't even be bothered to write it down I'll just be you know, and that name put this on the to -do list So, you know things like that just trying to get it out of your head is going to help because we all know what it's like when no, it's all right I remember that in the morning. No, it's fine. And you laid there and it's like a mantra and eventually you fall asleep and then you wake up thinking What was it? I can't This happened to me about three weeks ago and I still cannot remember what that mantra was that got me to sleep. It obviously can't have been anything too important because I've not had a phone call from school or you know tax office or anything like that so I presume it's all good. You know what, I absolutely love that. And I actually do what you just said. So I have to write things down. And I've been that person where I've even got out of bed to go into the other room where my notebook is to write that thing down. Because it's almost like for me, it's like a release. I'm like, okay, you can forget that now. It's written down. The future Athena can worry about that in the morning, time to rest. We must talk about the... the sort of that age old, what could be some people feel evil character by our bed, which is the mobile phone, which we must discuss. So what is your opinion about people who use their mobile phones before going to bed? So, it used to be, sort of 10 years ago or so, there was research that suggested that it was the blue light that impacted sleep. So, very brief science lesson. Basically, the light in the sky is more of a bluer hue first thing in the morning, and then it gets closer to the red spectrum throughout the day. So, the idea was that the blue, light from screens mimicked that early morning and so they thought that it confused our brains, our brains are expecting it to be darker, if it's going to be light it's going to be a red light and so our brains then are going wait a second I don't quite know what's going on here I think maybe it's morning but it's not morning so anyway so that's what the blue light thing was. The thing is if you think about the size of your phone compared to the size of the sky, even in a city, the amount of lux, which is what they measure light in, is going to be different based on a phone, which is tens, hundreds of lux, compared to tens of thousands of lux from the sky, depending on how cloudy it is. So we do know now that, and this research is constantly evolving, it's constantly changing. So... when it comes to the blue light, it's not such an issue. So if you want to watch TV or whatever, that's absolutely fine. Actually, what makes a difference is that interaction with that technology. So if you are looking through YouTube, obviously your podcast doesn't count because you know, that's okay. but yeah, if you are, if you are scrolling through and you're interacting, not only are you, thinking about what you're watching, you're then thinking about what you're gonna watch next, or maybe it makes you think about other things. And so it's kind of, it's the interaction that is an issue with sleep as opposed to the actual blue light from screens. So I generally say to people, try not to use a mobile about an hour before bed if you can, depends on what you're using it for. So I read books on my phone. So if I am going to read that in bed, I make sure that I don't get distracted and start clicking on lots of other stuff. I put it on nighttime mode so I then don't get the notifications and things like that. We also, especially if you're struggling with your sleep, you don't really want to make that connection between lying in bed and scrolling and being interactive and stimulated while you're laid in bed. We want our brain to make that connection that our bed is for sex and sleep. That's it really. Not for mindlessly scrolling through Facebook, looking at holiday photos from that school friend that we never really liked very much anyway. So... haven't we? We've all been there, lying by our partners, both of us on our phones, scrolling going, my God, look at this girl that I went to school with. We've all been there. Come on, ladies, we know we have. yep, absolutely. So, yeah, so really it's to do with the interaction. So I would say try not to interact with it within about an hour or so, depending on what you're doing. And ideally the same in the morning as well. So again, don't lie in bed, just kind of doom scrolling, putting off getting up. Ideally when the alarm goes off, you want to be up and out of bed. I'm not saying that you have to be, you know, G .B. Andrews style singing and, you know, bluebirds tweeting and all of that. I'm certainly not like that first thing in the morning, even when I sleep well. But yeah, trying not to have that association between sort of doom scrolling or even doing work, you know, checking emails and things like that in bed. That's not the restful association that we want between bed and what we're doing in it really. That makes sense and thank you so much for explaining that. And I think it's all about habits, isn't it? We talk about habits quite a lot of the time and it's to do with what is a healthy habit. Of course, it would be healthy to put your phone away for the hour, give your eyes a rest, give your brain a rest, speak to your partner. If your partner's not there, maybe just do something that you haven't done all day, like read a book, listen to audio books, something different. So I think that's definitely something we can take on board. one question I've got for you and I, I, this is me genuinely asking, cause I don't know the answer to it is I used to have this, and I'm sure a lot of people have said this to you before, like a watch or some sort of a device that I used to wear to bed that used to tell me about the quality of my sleep. And they used to say, right, you're in a, by the way, if I get this terminology wrong, I really apologize and please correct me. But I think it was saying something about shallow sleep. And then is it R E R E sleep? R E rapid unmixment, yeah. sleep and it's about really understanding, you know, how long are you actually in a deep sleep for and the optimal level of sleep. So could you just explain that? Like if somebody had that kind of device, because I had that device and I knew nothing about it. So how does that work in terms of where is the optimal? Where should we be? To be honest, we can put so much weight in our tech that our tech knows what's happening. The only true way of being able to tell what stage of sleep you're in is polysomnography, which is the electrodes on the head. So, because it's basically all about brain waves. So, our watches and other techs, so the rings and there's other things that you put next to the bed and things like that. They are getting smarter, they are getting better. However, I track my sleep using an app, my watch, which is just a cheap one, and sort of various, various different ways. And they all say something completely different because they can't... check my brain waves so they don't know what stage of sleep I'm in. They basically do it on movement and heart rate and that type of thing. So it can take an educated guess, but there's actually something called orthosomnia, which is where people feel that they aren't sleeping well because their watch is telling them that they're not sleeping well. So I would always say completely disregard that information and just go for subjectively how you feel. if you wake up and you feel great, I was talking to a client about it last week. So she was saying that her watch had said sleep efficiency was, or sleep score was something like 70 % and that she'd only got a six hour sleep. She said, but I woke up and I felt absolutely fantastic. I was like, well, there we go then. Happy days, you're done. Because it's really easy for us to then convince ourselves and when we have that post lunch dip and whatever, well of course I knew I was gonna feel like this because my watch told me. Well, no, not really. So I think it's, I will use that data when I'm working with clients one to one, but I ask them to also give me that subjective data as well. So what time do you think you fell asleep? If you woke during the night, any ideas of roughly how long it was for rather than just relying on that data. There are, as I say, smart tech is definitely getting smarter. and there are some that are far better than others, but they're still not infallible to be honest. So I wouldn't take too much notice. Yeah. No, that makes sense. If somebody say did, because a lot of people do still use this technology, they do naturally. I know a lot of people that do. If you were going to recommend one that, okay, not to rely on a hundred percent, but to be semi accurate, which app would you suggest is one of sort of the best apps to use to sort of track sleep? It's tricky to say to be honest. When it comes to actual apps, there's two that I think are really good. There's one called Sleep Space and there's another one called Sleep Cycle. And they both, the sort of sleep professors that are involved in those are really good. They really know their stuff. So the tech. demonstrates their knowledge really. So they tend to be quite good. So that is a case of either having it on the pillow next to you or next to the bed. But again, they're not infallible. So take it with a pinch of salt, but they do tend to be quite good. I think when it comes to watches, one of the Fitbits is supposed to be quite good. I think possibly one of the Garmin's as well are quite good. But again, tech is constantly changing. So I'm not sure which is the best at the moment to be fair. I've got a fly. you said, which was just based on how you feel. Because let's face it, if your watch tells you you've had 100 % optimal sleep, it's the best sleep of your life that you've ever had, but you wake up feeling really groggy, really, really rubbish, you know you didn't have 100 % optimal sleep. Whereas if you wake up like your client did, saying, I feel really good, I feel like I had a good sleep, and it was only 70%. It doesn't matter because you feel great and that's all that matters. I'm just trying to think if I, because sometimes we can all struggle with sleep and you're absolutely right, one night you'll have an amazing sleep, one night it won't be so great. If you could give your top, let's go with top three tips or three top tips for somebody who not so much suffers with sleep but ever so often just doesn't have as good of quality sleep as others. What could be your top three tips you would give them to try their best to have that? I would say top, probably top one would be think about what you're eating and drinking and when you're eating and drinking it. So absolutely not saying don't have alcohol and don't have caffeine. I have both, so I'd be an absolute hypocrite if I said don't have either. But both do impact our sleep. So caffeine. and basically blocks the receptors in our brain that tells us that we're tired. So we're tired, the chemical that is responsible for that feeling of tiredness is still there, it's still building, but the message doesn't get through. So it can take about 10 hours for caffeine to come out of our system. So if you're having a cup of coffee after dinner at seven o 'clock, you're probably still gonna have it in your system early hours in the morning. So just think about the timings of caffeine and things like that. alcohol as well that really impacts our sleep with the different sleep stages and things it messes up the architecture so we can feel that you know what have a glass of wine and it helps me fall asleep and but it's basically a sedative effect so although we are asleep it's not good quality sleep I've never heard of anyone that says well I had a really bad night's sleep last night So tonight I'm going to go to A &E and ask them to just give me a sedative because you know just a quick dose that's all. So that's essentially what we're doing if we self -medicate especially with regards to sleep with alcohol that's basically what we're doing and our tolerance then builds to alcohol as well. When alcohol leaves our system it messes with our body temperature as well and our body temperature has a really close link to our circadian rhythm timing so our natural body clock timings. So ideally we want our body temperature to be lower overnight. It gets to its lowest around about four o'clock. So depending on how much alcohol you've had, if it then is bringing your body temperature up, it's then gonna mean that your sleep is more fitful because of that, as well as various other correlations and things with alcohol and sleep. So absolutely not saying don't drink alcohol. Just think about when you're having it, how much you're having. And you know, if you are going to have a few babies, do it, but just know that you're probably going to have a really crap night's sleep. Okay, perfect. And then so that was one for think about eating, think about drinking and all of those. Have you got any other ones as well? try to... Some sort of routine is really helpful. It does not have to be draconian, you must do this at this time every single day. The most important thing is making sure that you wake up and get up at the same time. So doesn't have to be 6 .35 on the dot every single day. If it's within sort of 30 minutes either side, that's okay. But the reason that we want to be waking up and getting up, one is so that our brains have... they're not making that association of just being laid there. We're not going to have that horrid groggy feeling when we keep pressing snooze because you're not going to get any decent restorative sleep at that time in the morning. So you might as well get up and just have, you know, have the luxury of having a slightly slower morning rather than keep pressing snooze and then, you know, dashing around having to get stuff done. So, by waking up when we get up, we don't have that association of just being laid in bed, but also there's something called sleep pressure, which builds throughout the day. And that's what then helps us fall asleep at night. So naturally, if we're waking up round about the same time every morning, we're then going to fall asleep round about the same time every night. So it kind of makes it simpler really. And then final one, I guess really would be temperature again. So try to keep the room a bit. if you can, especially women, menopausal, perimenopausal, our ability to regulate our temperature as we get older is harder. So by keeping a room a bit cooler, have layers so that you can put layers on or take them off. Separate duvets if you have a bed partner, that can help, just because some of us feel that temperature difference different to others. and even sort of layers of nightwear if needs be. I love that. And you know what, as you were speaking, I was giggling to myself because have you seen that meme where they're like, there's two types of people in this world, one person and it shows the alarms and it's like one alarm, 7 a and they get up and then they're like the other person in the world, 7, 7 0 5, 7 10, 7 15, 7 20. And I have to admit I'm the second one. Because if the alarm goes off, this is a really bad habit, like a horrendous habit of mine. Say I set my alarm for, I don't know, 6.30, let's just say. I know in my brain, because I've trained my brain to know it, I don't actually have to get up until seven. But I psychologically, and I'm sure it's wrong, I've got no doubt, have told my brain, look, you're going to be a bit groggy at half six, but if you keep waking yourself up every five minutes, you can lie in bed and just come out of your sleep. And that is the most horrendous thing in the world and people hate me for it because my alarm goes off all the time. But I think, no, this is this is a good way to be. So what's your opinion about those types of people like myself who do do that? get what you mean and I admit I do press snooze once on my alarm and the reason I do it is I've never I've never been that person that can just jump up and be all Julie Andrews it doesn't matter you know what age I've been doesn't matter how much sleep I've had I'm just not that person I need some time to come around and and just orientate myself. So I will press news and then sit up and just kind of think about the day, you know, do my gratitude practice if that's the thing in the moment or, you know, just think about, you know, what have I got on? Where do I need to be? Where do the kids need to be? Whatever. The difficulty is if like what you're doing, which I get because I've done it myself, what you're doing is you, you, reducing that opportunity for sleep by 30 minutes. So if you actually set your alarm for seven o 'clock, if that's the time that you actually need to get up, you're going to get 30 minutes of actual sleep, which then means by the time the alarm goes at seven, you're probably going to feel more like actually getting up because depending on how much sleep you feel that you need, generally between sort of seven to nine hours for most adults. If you're not giving yourself the opportunity for that, then you're always going to be sleep deprived, you're always going to be trying to catch up. So by setting the alarm at the time that you actually need to get up, just gives you that extra 30 minutes of actual sleep rather than that sort of dozy, groggy, not real proper sleep because you're constantly listening out for the next alarm. So... gonna be so interesting. I'm gonna give it a go. I really am because I've had this habit for so, so long. And as we all know, bad habits are hard to let go of. But I'm like, okay, Sam says I need to just have one alarm at seven and I wanna watch that alarm go off and me go, God, I actually have to get up now. I haven't got my snoozes. And see if it works. mean chances are if you've been doing it for a long time chances are you are still naturally going to wake about 6 .30. Well, this was my other question to you, because my other question is, I've also had it before where I have forgotten to put my alarm on, which terrifies me, but I will naturally wake up at the same time every single day. Even if it's a Saturday, like people like have a lie in and I'm like, no, my body doesn't do that. My body will still wake me up at half six every single morning. And so do people, how does that work? Like that you naturally wake up at a time, it's a bit freaky, I think. I mean, it's fascinating, isn't it? It's really, really clever. So our circadian rhythm, circa meaning about, Deon coming from the word day, so it's about 24 hours, not quite, but about 24 hours. So our brains just get used to waking at that time and you can change your circadian rhythm. So you can change, you know, you can start to shift it either by using light or... In some extreme cases, you can use melatonin supplementation and things. But with time, it will change. But equally with time, it will change to, if you're constantly getting up at that time or your alarm is constantly going at that time, naturally our brain just gets used to it because it kind of does run on that 24 hour clock that even if you think in the winter, 6 .30, it's really, really dark. but in the summer it's fairly light outside at 6 .30, yet because our body clock is ticking along on that 24 hour clock, it recognizes that it's around about 6 .30. So there's other things that impact our body clock as well, like body temperature, timing of food, they all impact it and help it ticking along nicely. Wow, I love that. It's so interesting when you actually sit down and you start thinking about things that otherwise are quite a natural thing. It gets you posing all these questions and it gets you really thinking about it as well, which is great. And then I've got two sort of final questions. So my first one is, have you ever heard it? And I'm sure you have, but or if any of the listeners actually do this, I tried to do it and it's not quite for me, whereas it works really well for others. It's this idea of a really quick power nap. sort of during the day. What's your opinion about a really quick, good, let's go 10, 15 minute power nap that people seem to speak about that works really well for them? So research suggests a 10 minute power nap is going to improve your cognitive functioning for three hours afterwards. So, absolutely, a power nap can be really useful. The difficulty is, if you're sleeping well every night, you probably shouldn't really need it. And the difficulty is, if you are consistently having naps, then that is then going to impact your nighttime sleep. And also, 10 minutes is the optimum. But it's really hard to police that because you need to allow that time, you need to allow sort of 15 -ish minutes for you to fall asleep. But you also don't want to get into too deep a sleep because otherwise that's when you get that horrid groggy sleep inertia feeling, which I think we can all agree, you get that and you just think, well, that was a complete waste of time actually having a nap, because I actually feel worse than I did before. I could have just powered through. Naps can be really good, they can be really helpful, but it's all about the timing. So it's making sure that you're not having it too late in the day, even if it's 10 minutes. You don't want to, that sleep pressure that I was talking about earlier on, by having a nap you're reducing that sleep pressure. So then by the time nighttime comes, you don't have as much to help you fall asleep. So they absolutely have benefit, but just... try not to rely on it too much, I guess. Hmm, so maybe like a half an hour power nap. Something like that. That too long? that would be too long because if you are so tired that you feel that you need a nap you're then likely to go into deep sleep and I haven't talked about stages sleep but you then likely to go into deep sleep and then when the alarm wakes you that's when you get that grogginess. I've had before definitely it's always when I'm on I'm on the couch probably watching a really really rubbish program might come down with me or coach trip or something and I fall asleep and then I wake up and I feel so groggy so groggy and I think no I shouldn't I shouldn't have fallen asleep but I thought I actually know quite a few people interesting enough who they have naps every single day I know that for a fact that's their thing they definitely nap in the afternoon Yep. I go around to their house, they managed to convince me to nap as well. It's quite nice We all just nap it's quite quite a nice thing. But yeah, it's a really interesting one, isn't it? And do you know I definitely think this is a personal subject I think it's very much what works for one person doesn't need to work for another for me personally if I was to nap I Would it wouldn't work for me? First of all, I haven't got time to nap. But second of all, I just I wouldn't then be able to sleep I think I'm good in terms of making my body realise, okay, now it's time to sleep. You know, this is what we're meant to be doing. And I think if you're not having any issues overnight, with your overnight sleep and you are napping, cool, do it. There's a reason why we have that, they call it post lunch dip and everyone presumes it's because you've had lunch and you're just a bit full. It's not, it's evolutionary. When you think about siestas and things like that, it's usually round about the time that we would have had a siesta. But. because we don't do that anymore. Our circadian rhythm is just a bit slow kind of picking up on it. So, you know, we, we evolved by probably having naps. and you know, if you look within the sleep world, it's quite a contentious issue. lots of people say different things. So I kind of sit on the fence and say, well, look, if, if it's not impacting your nighttime sleep and you feel that it works for you, then great, do it. I will sometimes have one for whatever reason, you know, if I know that I'm going to be, out late in the evening or whatever. But yeah, it's purely personal. But I really like that, Sam. I like your approach to things where you're not trying to force your thoughts and your opinions about what you think will work for a person onto them. You're very much coming from a place of asking more questions. Like, well, if you were to do it, does it impact your sleep in the evening? If not, it doesn't matter. It's like, well, what works for you? And I really, really like your approach in that. And you're all about how it feels as opposed to just the science. I can imagine a lot of people in your world just getting really hung up on the science of it. and spending less time actually thinking about the feeling behind it. So I really like that approach. Yeah, yeah. I mean, basically our sleep is as individual as we are. And I learned quite quickly working with families that, you know, I can, I can say to you what your child's sleep should look like, you know, at such and such an age, they should be sleeping this amount of, but actually, do you know what? That doesn't always work for everyone. You know, culturally it doesn't work just generally, you know, timings within families. It doesn't work. So I learned quite quickly that actually, There is no right and wrong as long as you're doing what works for you. And as long as you are getting a decent amount of sleep, then crack on basically. I love that. And you know, that leads me perfectly into my final question for you, which is we got a lot, a lot of moms and dads who listen to this podcast. And I'm personally not a mom, but I want to make sure I definitely ask this question, which is around, you mentioned the fact that of course your first daughter, when she came along, she had, for whatever reason, she had great sleep, perfect sleep. And then was it your second daughter then came along and it was the opposite of that. Now, I'm going to assume and imagine that they were raised in a very similar way. So there wasn't too much distortion there, as it were. So what do you think was the reason why, you know, your second daughter had this and how did you actually manage to learn and overcome that and then help her to get back on the right track? I think frankly I was a bit complacent because my eldest had slept so well and talking to other family members and friends who had the same where the eldest slept really well you do get complacent you just kind of think well obviously I'm completely nailing this mum shit so and you know I yeah you know obviously it's just naturally my kids are just great sleepers and you know they're obviously gonna be geniuses as well that's not the case at all. So, I mean, they are geniuses, obviously, and they do speak well and I'll backtrack on all of that. But yeah, I think for us, we basically got complacent. I think also with... second child, she was two years younger and yet we were trying to fit her routine around her sisters. Whereas actually maybe we should have done it the other way around. We maybe should have treated them as the individuals that they are, treated their sleep schedules as the unique schedules that they are and tried to then sort of compromise somewhere rather than just, well this worked for eldest so it's obviously going to work for youngest and it didn't. But you know what, I think that's so interesting and I'm sure that a lot of mums and dads are listening to this thinking, yeah, I could definitely relate to that. And, you know, one child will come out a certain way and another child will be very different as it were. And as we say, we're all different people, everything will work differently. How did you get your second child back on track again? Was there a certain technique that you used or anything like that? It was basically looking at timings. So the timings were wrong. So the poor little love was just chronically sleep deprived because we were trying to fit her. It was, you know, around, what was it, around peg in a square hole or other way around. You know, we were, we were trying to fit her to her sister's timings and... with there being two years difference, those first two years, there's a huge amount of difference in the sleep needs and the amount of time that they can be awake and things like that. So it basically just came down to timings and how we were reacting to her overnight. You know, I was completely resigned to the fact that I had to get up with her and whatever, whereas actually she got used to it. it's that habit thing, you know, actually, well, actually, if mom's going to come in at two o 'clock and we're going to have a little bit of a party and, you know, she's going to give me some milk even though I don't need it, you know, it was so absolutely, I take responsibility for what I was doing because I thought I was doing the right thing at the time. And it's only now that I look back and kind of go, actually, yeah, maybe I could have done it a bit differently. Rather than clumping them together, I just needed to look at them as individuals really. I love that. But you know, a lot of people talk about mum guilt and they talk about, I wish I had done this differently. And it's like, yeah, well, you learn, don't you? You know. everybody's bed, nobody's dead is still my mantra. So yeah. your mantra one more time. Everyone's fed, nobody's dead. I like that. I think we could all take that forward in life. That is a good mantra to have. it. It's a good little celebration every night. Sit there with my herbal tea. Everyone's fed. No one's fed. I love it. And make sure it's before 9am because you need a good sleep. Fab. And then Sam, as I mentioned to you in true sort of podcast style. So what we tend to do when we get like property professionals on, we tend to ask them about a property mishap, property disaster that they've either been involved in themselves or seen invested or something. But as for yourself, you know, it'd be wonderful to hear about maybe a personal property mishap that you've actually had yourself and... just to give us all a bit of fun at the end of the pod. So what example have you got for today? It's fairly tame but I was jet washing my patio at the weekend and rather than get my shoes all wet I did it in flip -flops and was absolutely covered. Anyone that's jet washed anything knows that it all spits back at you doesn't it? And so I thought this is a good idea I'll just jet wash my feet to get rid of the stuff. When you think about what it does to your patio or whatever it is that you're doing... flippin well hurts actually and I'm quite surprised I didn't break a bone or something so don't jet wash yourself would be my top tip I love that. I love that. Well, I do have to ask Sam, like what was actually going through your mind when you thought, right, I'm going to jet wash my patio and can see all of this moss and green really coming off. So I'm now going to put it on my feet. Yeah, I know, I'm not quite sure what the thought process was but I don't think it was the right one, was it? love that and you know you are lucky that so no no skin you're all okay you're not injured. it's all, yeah, it was brief. You know, it was that, so yeah. was like this is a very bad idea I love that and you know, thank you so much for coming on today. It's it's wonderful to have different types of conversations on this podcast and and For the girls and property community as well I always say I've I now do a girls and prosperity Monthly meeting as I know I've mentioned to you before Sam and it's this idea around I always say, and my mantra is, we are so much more than our businesses. And I stand by that. And it's like, well, who are we as people? So how do we improve our sleep? How do we improve our breath work? How do we improve our mental health? How do we improve our money mindset? And I'm so interested in having these different topics on the podcast because yes, it's called Girls and Property. Yes, it's important to learn about property. And I will continue to teach you and to bring on educational speakers in the industry to do that. But at the same time, I will ask you listeners, like, please also think about you as a person and how you are developing within the entrepreneurial space, which is why I'm bringing someone like you, Sam, on here to start thinking outside about, maybe I could do something differently. And even me, like, I've taken something away today. I promise you, I will, I don't know how long it will last, but I will try and just set it for 7 a and see if that makes a change. And I will, of course, keep in touch with you to let you know. me know. Yeah. learning, we're always growing and it's so important to develop us as people as well as our businesses. And that's what I'm really trying to push going forward. So thank you for coming on and being part of that. I really appreciate it. Of course, if people wanted to then find you, get in touch with you, want to learn more about sleep from you, where is the best place for them to do so? So my website is EasySleepSolutions .co.uk or on Instagram and Facebook I am at EasySleepSolutionsUK. Don't forget the UK bit, otherwise it's a random woman in Canada I think, so I'm sure she gets a few new followers every time I do something. like, they're my followers! That's why I was trying to have my crazy hair, because I think my profile picture on Instagram has the crazy hair. So it's like, you're going to know it's me. There's the lion's mane, it's here. Yeah. guys? Look for the lion's mane, curly hair and make sure you put UK to make sure it's Sam that you're definitely following. And then as always, if you want to follow me, I'm Athena Dobson underscore official, girls in property on Instagram. If you want to find out more about the community group and joining up and what we're going to be doing girls and prosperity monthly meetings, quarterly property, got the dedicated community group and of course the event on Saturday, the 7th of December for the Christmas gala. then follow at girlsandpropertypod .com or all the links are in the bio or simply DM me saying community or Christmas or just say hi and I'll be able to give you all the information. But Sam, thank you so much once again. Have a fantastic rest of your week, get lots of sleep and everybody enjoy your week. Rest up, take notes and tips from today and I will see you all next week. Have a good one. Bye.