How to Outsource and Systemise Your Property Business with Latoya McDonald

Welcome to today’s episode of the Girls in Property podcast!

In this episode, Athena sits down with Latoya McDonald, the queen of outsourcing your property business. Let’s face it—every property investor will eventually need to outsource in order to grow and scale. But how exactly do we do this, and more importantly, why is it essential?

Join us as Latoya and Athena dive deep into the reasons behind implementing systems and procedures to effectively outsource your property business. They’ll discuss when and how to do this at each stage of your property journey.

Prepare yourself for a candid conversation as both women share their personal experiences as investors and the valuable lessons they’ve learned along the way.

We hope this episode inspires you to reflect on your own business, evaluate your current strategies, and consider how you can reclaim your time to focus on high-value, money-making activities.

Tune in and let’s get started!

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning, everyone. Happy Monday and welcome to the Girls in Property podcast. Hope everyone is doing absolutely amazing today. It is Monday morning. We are feeling the Monday morning vibes. It's going to be a fantastic week this week. And I'm going to start your week off in true wonderful style with someone who I adore. She's absolutely bubbly. She's so much fun and she just gets it. So I would love to introduce you today to Latoya McDonald. Hi, how are you? thank you very much for having me. I'm a massive podcast lover in general. Love your podcast. I'm a nutter for them. And so I'm very excited to be here today, although I would like to be on the sofa. I know, I know. well, thank you so much. And we always say, don't you like you're down in Cornwall, aren't you? Is that right? To be fair, like Dorset isn't actually that far. We could we could make it work ish in our own way. One thing I should do actually, because I didn't do it in your introduction, I definitely should do it is you're actually your full title should really be LaToya MacDonald from outsourcing your property business is what I should actually say. Because that's, that's what that's you. That's what your niche is. And that's what so many of us are looking to do in terms of outsourcing your property business. I'm sure I mean, everyone who knows me on this podcast is like, Athena, you need to listen to this podcast, even though I'm going to be sitting doing it because I am like a headless chicken in my business. There is so much going on, which obviously we're going to delve deep into. And I think what's fantastic about you is you're like, no, you know, you need to outsource this and outsource this and what are the tasks and, and, and everything. So I'm sure that the listeners today are going to be tuning into this thinking. I need to listen to Latoya tell me how to sort out and outsource my business. So, but without further ado, could you introduce yourself, tell everyone a bit about you, who you are, but also like maybe about something really interesting about you, your hobbies and what you like to do outside of work as well. Yeah, perfect. So I'm LaToya MacDonald from Outsourcing and Property Business. As you can probably tell, even though I live in Cornwall, I'm not Cornish. I am from New Zealand. And I have an extensive real estate property background. So telling my age a bit here, but over 20 years now. So I've got a leading agency in Cornwall. I'm a bit of a HMO nutter. Love HMOs. I've got my own HMO portfolio. And I also have this business which is Outsourcing Property Business. So I work with property people on systems, procedures and outsourcing to virtual assistants. That's my happy place. I'm combining my love of business and property and yeah, I love it. Absolutely love it. well, that's it in a nutshell. Like you're just like, yep, I'm a property guru. I also do this and I put it together. Like that's it in a nutshell, which is amazing. And what would you say therefore that at this moment in time, you would be celebrating if we start off with our celebrations? celebrations, celebrations. If I can talk about something that maybe is a little bit different of a celebration. So email series, writing an email series for my community that, you know, I've got my store and people download stuff and I've really lacked in that. So getting that almost to completion. You know, I know a lot of people talk about... AI and chat GPT and I love that as well for like getting the juices flowing and really getting headlines and titles for things to do. But the emails and also the videos I'm going to do on my private YouTube link to go into those, that's been a lot of work. It's me, it's all of me in it. So that's been, yeah, so it's almost there. So that's a win. You know what, that's huge. Like just actually getting those things that have been, you know, would you, would you agree if I have to say to you, it might have been on your list for quite some time to get this done. Yeah. Not something I wanted my BA to do. That's me. Anyone who looks at my Instagram posts or anything like that, they have a particular style. The way that I talk, the way that I write, it's very me. So, you know, I wanted to put that into my emails and also I love video. So I wanted videos to go with those emails. So probably made the job a hell of a lot bigger. I should have just gone small to start with, but yeah, that to me is, yeah. There, almost there. But you know what, that is so huge and that is what you should celebrate because you just feel like it's this like weight lifted off you. I mean, we all are guilty, let's face it ladies that are listening and gentlemen, of having a to -do list and you literally move certain tasks from one to -do list to the next day, to the next day, to the next day. I'm guilty of having things on my to -do list that have been on my to -do list for about two weeks and all I do is I just push them to the next day. And it's fascinating when you're actually like, you know what? Finally finally got that thing done. It could be around the house as well. I was talking to someone this other day It could be like, do you know what? I finally got that shelf up in the house I finally did that thing in the garden, you know, it could be as little as that but it's such an achievement So I am here for you celebrating that I love that. And then for my celebration actually talking about communities as you know, the girls and property community literally launched on Monday this week Well last Monday which is super exciting. And do you know what? Literally what you just said, I completely resonate with. You're like, I didn't want anyone else to do this. This is all me. As people know, I'm a one woman band at the moment. And so everything that you see, everything that's created, everything that launches is all me. And as a result of that, there is literally blood, sweat and tears that go into each element of what I do to bring this. to fruition for the ladies. And my God, like it takes a piece of your soul. Do you know what I mean? Because you put everything into it. And I have to say, if I'm really, really real and honest, which I always am on this podcast, launch day was really difficult for me, really tough, because the idea was that the launch was supposed to happen in the morning at around sort of 9 a And actually what ended up happening was everything that could go wrong went wrong. for the launch. Like the payment systems wouldn't work, the card systems, the website, like just wasn't finished. And for me, I was like, my God, it's not gonna get launched. I've given a launch date and it's not gonna get launched. And I can't tell you the stress that that put on me, the fact that it got launched not until 7 .30 at night. It was just beyond anything I felt in a really long time. And I'm just being really open and honest about that because, Like, I've learnt so many lessons from that launch as well. Like, the biggest lesson I've taken away is one thing I do to myself, which is really a really interesting thing, is I feel like if I set these launch dates, I then have deadlines to work to, so it will get done. And quite frankly, it will always get done. Like, my personality is, trust me, I will be up for 24 hours if I have to. It will get done. But that's not necessarily a healthy way to be. What's a better way to be is to get everything ready for then it's a launch. And I've got some really exciting things in the pipeline where I have not announced some launch dates yet, but there are things moving behind for girls and property where only once it's ready, I will actually tell people, right, this is the launch date. But yeah, so the community did eventually launch and we've already had in the space of what, three days, including yourself, Latoya, 35. Yeah, 35 women signed up, which is incredible. Like, thank you for signing up. And literally just before we came on the podcast, you were actually talking about the reasons why you signed up, because I asked you why you signed up. So remind me of what you were saying, like the reasons why you did and what you hope to gain out of the community yourself. Yeah, so I think for me, firstly, your retreat was really like something that I wanted to achieve this year. I didn't make it. We can talk about that later, sort of why I'm not leaving my house much. But, you know, and also, so I like the idea of, I don't want to get too, I guess, properly political about networking, traditional networking, but I think retreats are where it's at for me. I want, if I dedicate a day or two days, if I go overseas to a retreat, and I've not done this yet, so this is all in my head, I'm probably bigging it up, it's probably, maybe it's not like this, but in my head I'm thinking, if I dedicate a day to being somewhere with other people, I'm not getting that one to two minute conversation out of people like, hi, what do you do? How could we work together? It's proper building connections of like, where are you based? what do you do up there? And... Talking about people's lives and making real connections, I find that networking is so fast -paced and too quick. You're not getting any realness sometimes. And you go away and then sort of you think to yourself, what was that person's name again? Or what did they do? And then you might not connect with them or you get on social media, but it's still the same as having the contact in your phone. You need to have that real connection to be able to fully connect. And so that's what I... I'm probably bigging it up maybe, but like that's what I'm wanting from the community and very much female as well. I think I said to you this as well, like I love a female group. I just don't have the balls to do it myself, but you know, I love that because property is tough for us. Lending can be tough. And I want to be able to speak to people about that and learn from other females as well. I feel like we're pretty open about. lending and funding and that side of things as well. And yeah, so I'm excited about a female community where I feel part of it. And something else I said to you as well is just like, I think property can be so lonely in general. And for me being childless and, you know, by choice, by the way, by choice, you know, and being a bit of a workaholic, I don't have the connections to the girlfriends, perhaps some of my other friends who they go to mum clubs and stuff like that. So I'm wanting that from a female. community. So hopefully I've not made too much workload or bigged it up too much. Not at all. Do you know, you haven't, you haven't, that's exactly what it's going to be. And what happened was, was that when we actually did the retreat, a lot of the girls came up to me and they said to me, you know, Athena, where, how can we stay connected? You know, what's next type thing? Yes, you've got the events and yes, you've got this, but how do you, how can we actually keep in contact with one another throughout the whole year? And me being me, or I'm a, I'm a massive visionary person, you know, when people come to me saying, Athena, how can we do this? I'm going, well, I've got this idea and I've got this idea and I always love just creating ideas. That's my thing. And so I thought, well, what could I do for these women? What could I do for them? And I thought I could create a community group. And what I loved the most, because what happened was, was when the community group initially came to Frisham, I had to really sit and think, what is it I actually want to give to these women out of this? What is it that they are looking for? And one of the biggest things I'm certainly growing with as a person, as people know on the podcast is I keep saying we are so much more than just property and we are so much more than our businesses. And I say that with such a passion. And what I wanted to create was this, these, well, it's first of all, a dedicated community group, as you've seen, where everyone can come in, introduce themselves. There are dedicated bits that people can speak about their individual topics they want to for property. But more than that, there's also going to be a monthly girls and prosperity meeting, which Latoya, you are definitely going to be heading up one of those. I'm just letting you know in advance. Because it's more than just for property people. It's like, okay, well, what about us as people? How do we develop? So how do we get a better work -life balance by outsourcing our businesses? How do we understand about our money mindset? Even go as far to say things such as I'm asking one of my really good people to come on who's a breathwork coach. Mm -hmm. do breath work as well. It's all about developing yourself as a person to therefore then develop your business. And for me, I think that's what's been the turning point for me is how do I develop? Like, who am I? And that's what I really want to get out of it. And then of course, we've also got, because it is girls and property, the quarterly then expert panel sessions where I'll be dedicating it to, let's say, land development, property development, HMOs, BRR. So there's a flavor for everyone if you want to develop yourself from a personal perspective, but develop yourself from a professional perspective. And I think that's so important to do and to grow and to not allow people to feel so lonely, as you say, within the industry. And for us women, it can feel incredibly lonely. And I want to just support and create that, which I've now done. So yay. I know. And then finally, just before I go on just to speak more to you about the outsourcing, just to let everybody know also, the Christmas gala is being launched for tickets on Monday the... No, yeah, Monday the 27th is when this goes out. my God, today is the day when the podcast goes out, that the gala tickets get launched. So girls, the gala tickets got launched today. So make sure you grab yourself a ticket. And of course, if you're part of the community group, you get 10 % off your ticket just by entering the code, sending your welcome email. So make sure that you do do that. So yeah, that's my celebration. Okay, Latoya, talk to me then. So when we're thinking about outsourcing our businesses, let's first of all think about this. First of all, talk to me about the type of person that would come to you to say, Latoya, I need your help. this is my problem, this is what's happening to me. Who is the typical person that you usually speak to? My typical person, because I do help property people and leading agencies as well, or people wanting to set up a leading agency. But the typical person who comes to me is just like where we've all been, needed somebody six months ago. And they've got a property business that maybe they got out of their career to go into property full time. And then they found out this is, this is like, this is a job. Like, why did I get sold? get out of the job when I've got myself into a job. So the typical person is somebody who's found themselves in that situation where they're constantly running around. They're not actually doing any deals. They're doing a lot less deals because they've now grown the business and they're doing a lot of the low hourly rate stuff. So for my rent to rent clients, they're struggling to do everything, you know, all the low hourly rate stuff, but all the high money making activities as well. And then for the HMO portfolio people, it's just time suck of loads of tasks and legislation and compliance as well. So I think this is the other thing that people don't realize when you get into property that you have to dedicate time to your education. And I'm not talking about getting on the Facebook group and reading threads, actually investing in your education and property because you don't get a letter in the post from the government saying, new how to rent guide coming in or... hey, you know, we've got another legislation that's being added to the 160 pieces you've already got. You don't get a letter. You really have to immerse yourself in this industry and really educate yourself. So I help with that. So, yes, I guess the typical person is really somebody that is just needing help right now to get their time back. Nobody hits so far. not saying you can't come to me if this is it but nobody's come to me and said god Latoi please help me because I want to go sit on a beach in Thailand I want the passive lifestyle yeah what a dream yeah property is not passive guys the person you have just described is me, literally. So my situation, I know I need to talk to you. Well, let's chat, let's chat. So let's make it like a real conversation then. So for example, people see on Instagram the fact that I've of course got the girls' property. and I've got all of these things going on, the property lifestyle accelerator and mentoring and coaching, lovely. But what they don't see all the time, because quite frankly, I'm too busy in the moment actually completing the tasks, is I also run various property management businesses. So for example, whilst I'm launching a community group and tickets to a Christmas gala, I'm mentoring and coaching and running Dorset Property Network and everything else. I am also responding to the fact that a person is staying in a service accommodation, couldn't work through remote control. I'm responding to a person who messaged me last night at nine o 'clock because they didn't know how to turn the oven on. And actually to be fair to them, it's because the plug was switched off underneath that they then had to go switch on to then turn it on. But this is all happening at the same time that everything else is happening. And with the HMOs and with the service accommodation and with the vital app. which I'll talk about in a different conversation because I had my own mishap with that this week. And it's like, my goodness, there is so much going on. And you end up having to do all the bitty tasks in between. And let's face it, with service accommodation, responding to messages, booking people in, we've now taken it away from Airbnb and booking .com and trying to get more direct bookings. And therefore that takes more manual processing. And so it's like, my God, I've got so much on my plate. I need to know almost, I need to write a list of Athena, what could you outsource? What could you go and do? So I need your help basically. So tell me about like, say that somebody was listening and going, okay, I'm exactly like Athena. I've got all these property management businesses that I do. Well, I'm trying to do business development. I'm trying to grow. What would you say to us? So I think the first protocol really to start with is to write down, set an alarm on your phone. I would do as much as possible, but try for every hour. And then when that alarm goes off, write down everything you've done, but don't just write, book the gas safety certificate. Say I text John the plumber to book the gas safety. He's come back to me and said, next Tuesday, I've gone on to... the email, maybe you email tenants, I've emailed the tenant, tenants come back said that doesn't work for them. Really put the detail in there. Because by the time you get to five o'clock in the evening, if you were to sit down and write all those tasks, you would write something like booked gas safety certificate, or the top three things that you can remember from the day, you're not going to remember all the detail. And the details really important because when you get to the end of the week, you can look back and go, not only can you outsource certificates, so for your HMO business, you know, your gas safety, your EICRs, your PATs, all of that, they can be booked by your VA. But it's that detail that you're going to be able to create the procedure around. So you could look at that and go, this is mental that I'm, you know, I am messaging, text messaging the plumber, emailing the tenant, and then the plumber is sending me photos on WhatsApp. This is mental. Like, why am I being pulled and pushed around on different communication lines when I could just streamline this? So, It really helps you to look at the business and where you can pull it in a bit, make it tidier, make it cleaner, more streamlined. So those are the things I would give to you. Not many people listen to me when I ask for the list. Nobody listens to me. That's why I do hand holding service because I'm like, right, today we're going to do this list. This is what we're doing. Because people just don't do it without me because it takes, you know, for you, for example, you know, it could take you, two to three minutes to message the guests back and go, sorry, the switch for the oven's in the cupboard. Go to the cooker, you're looking at the cooker, it's on the left, open up the bottom cupboard, it's down there. That takes you two to three minutes to solve that problem in that moment of your life, rather than thinking, right, changeovers this weekend, I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna do a full maintenance video of my property of from walking out on the street, from the parking to the garden inside where everything is, where the air con is, where the heating is, where the boiler is, everything. So that will take you, call it round trip plus editing three hours. That's too painful. But that's what I do one -on -one with my clients because I break it down little by little. I don't tell them that you're going to have to spend X amount of time. I'm there with them by their side. So it's not as scary. Yeah, do you know it's so good. By the way, we have those procedures in place. We have a checking guide. We've done all of the walkthrough and the photographs and everything and the videos. I think it was just, it's so much quicker in a moment rather than saying, here is the video for how to turn on. I'm just like, I'm like nine o 'clock at night. I'm literally like, hey, this is how you do it and things. I tell you, you mentioned something the other day that I really want to touch on now actually, in this particular example, because I think it's so relevant, is they've of course on the check -in instructions got my mobile number. And so what happens is, yeah, so what happens is, is when they actually come through to doing that, I will then effectively get a WhatsApp from a guest being like, I've got an issue. And particularly last night, I was out celebrating because it was mine and Steve's anniversary. And while we're out having our anniversary, I get this WhatsApp come up on my phone going, we don't know how to turn the oven on. And the first, my very first reaction is one of, that's thrilling. You know, and it's because I haven't got somebody else either dealing with that, or I don't have it off of my phone and onto a different system because you want to make sure that you are there for your guests. to make sure that your guests are happy and have everything that they need, you therefore have that. And it's almost like a vicious circle. And I remember you posting some things. I saw it and I actually saved it on my Instagram because I thought it was so fantastic. You were talking about this idea about get away from your mobile phone in your business. And I really just want you to kind of touch more on that in terms of what you were trying to explain in your reel. Because I'm really fascinated by that because I'm attached to my mobile phone. My mobile phone is my business and I'm trying to, like, how do I get away from that? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, this has taken me years to get to the stage where I am where I'm like, get rid of that mobile WhatsApp, get rid of it. Like I'm this is like a completely different Latoya two years ago. And, you know, when I worked in New Zealand, very fast paced industry, 100 % commission sales, you know, my phone, it was almost beaten into me by my managers, you answer that phone within three rings, because that is money. Every time that phone rings is money. Do not. miss a call 24 7 answer that phone. So, and it wasn't until really that I got my partner and I got a life outside of real estate. My husband, now husband actually did say to me once, he was like, if we're in mid conversation, you just, if that phone goes, that phone's top priority. I'm like, well, yeah, that's how we make money. So, but then after he said it to me, I was like, God, that's really mean. Like he is not my top priority yet. He is my top priority. I was like, God, that's really rude. And then I started to think as well that when I go on holiday, everyone wants me. And that's really difficult when you live in the UK and you go overseas for six to eight weeks at a time. So I was like, God, this needs to change. So and I really started to think back then the business needs to serve clients, not me and my mobile phone, because that that isn't working for my health. Like, We can talk about it later with the health side of things, but you know, that was just my health used to be so bad because I chose work all the time. And you know, when you build the business to serve the clients and serve your own portfolio, my business serves my portfolio. You know, it's streamlined and you can walk away or you can go on holiday or you can go in an area where you know you don't get phone reception and not be stressed. And so that's really important. And when some clients come to me and they just can't imagine their lives without their mobile phone or without WhatsApp and I'm like, but if you go on a family holiday to where reception is poor, let's say you go walk the Inca Trail in Peru, which is what I did, there was no reception there. So if you do that, you can't be thinking in work mode all the time. It's not healthy. It's really not good for you. So. That's kind of where it stemmed from years ago. And I've just kind of honed it over time and worked with my clients on it so that, you know, the VAs are running the inquiries and the phone system is in place and it doesn't need you to run. So that if you were to step away from the business for a week or eight weeks, the business continues, the clients get served. You know, I had a leading agency client and he said, All my clients have my mobile phone and that's good service. And I said, but when you're in a meeting with the HMO department or you're looking at a new deal, you can't answer your phone. That's not serving your clients. So just trying to get your head around the mobile phone, not being part of the business and actually giving yourself, letting the business stand on its own two feet and serve. And you also having your own life and your own phone so that when it goes, you know it's your friend or your husband or your wife. Not like, god, what is it now? You know what, I love everything you just said. So let me think about this. Number one, first thing I thought was, was what you said originally, someone hasn't said to me yet. And I think that's a really interesting point. So my background is sales. So I worked in sales for seven years and then I worked in a high -paced marketing environment before that. And I've always, I've always been in a marketing sales environment for as long as I can remember. That's just me. Even, even when I was at university, like, I was still in like very much sales worlds, like I just was. And so you're right. They used to beat it into us where we used to have to pick up the phone within three rings. You're a hundred percent correct. And each phone call was money. Your each phone call is an opportunity. And it's like, well, that's money. That's money. I've got, I've got to go get the money and that, and then there were sales charts. And I always wanted, I'm very competitive person. I always wanted to be at the top of the sales charts and It's mad, isn't it? That what we don't realize is that's our upbringing and that's our psychology around it. And what you just said is 100 % spot on. And I spoke about this with Steve when we did our episode together around about prioritization, because he says the exact same thing to me. He says, we'll be having a conversation and then suddenly your phone rings and suddenly your phone becomes the priority. And we're having a conversation and midway through the conversation, you stop listening to me and you go to your mobile phone. And I'm like, yeah, because that's important. And therefore it's like, yeah, but the conversation is important. And so it's fascinating to think about what is our relationship with our mobile phone. And for me, the mobile phone is my business. That's the thing. And what I would love to do with you, Latoil, like a separate conversation is I would love to almost talk to you about what I think about my business and kind of how I see myself within the business. And for you to almost massively push back on me and go, Well, hold on, this is what's gonna happen. And I love what you said, which is you have to get yourself to a point where the business has to run without you. Like, I'm, by the way, like if people don't know this, I'm sure they do. I'm a control freak. So I have to control all of the moving parts because I think, I feel that if I'm not controlling all the moving parts, nobody can do it as well as me. Nobody can move parts like I can move parts or nobody cares enough. to move the parts like I can move the parts. And that's what's holding me back because I feel like anyone else who tries to do it won't do it to the best of what I can do. And therefore I will therefore lose my reputation, lose the business. And that's me just bearing my soul on this podcast because it's so important to do so. So what would you say to somebody in that position? Cause I don't know if other listeners are like, girl, I feel you. I'm here saying the same thing like. Like, you know, give me a bit of love guys. Like what are we all thinking? But what would you say, Latoya? Yeah. So I am the same as you control freak. and you know, that's something that probably contributed to a lot of my health issues years ago as well, when I had employed, staff in the business. Now, when you get a virtual assistant team and you build that for your business, it is not going to be you. It's just not, but you have to start preparing the business to give your, you have to start thinking about your. Your business is providing income to these people. You need to let them have everything they need to perform their duties. And that could be everything from detailed procedures right through to the vision, the way that you want your tenants spoken to, your landlords, everything. You're controlling that. You've got to get it across. You've got to have a template for it. And, you know, even now, you know, when my team do something and I think, God, you know, like, I, you know, where did that come from, what happened there? It's my role now to support them and really give them the tools that they need to carry out the roles within the businesses. And it's been a big shift. Maybe that comes with age and wiseness, I don't know, but it's very much, I've learnt now that I really need to, when something doesn't go right or I'm not happy with something, I need to step in and find out. why that happened and what do I need to do to support that person so that doesn't happen again or for them to have, you know, to tweak a template or for them to understand. So it's important for me to say that you're not going to find somebody who's going to be you. You're really not. I mean, you do get, I don't like to use the word lucky, but you do every now and again, I'm working with a client at the minute. He's got multiple businesses. He didn't have time to... dedicate as much time to me with my full package that I offer is what my other clients do. So I've worked with his employed staff member and she is just gold. She is a star. And so I'm always like, my God, like that lady, she is amazing that you've got. So, you know, cause he's, he's got, I don't know. I don't like to say, I don't like using the word lucky, but he's, he's got lucky with her. And I had a UK virtual assistant, absolute star, you know, and, I just, I just, she just got everything. She was just so darn good. And you do get those ones every now and again, but they don't always last forever. You know, she went to go have a baby. I couldn't, I couldn't say, are you sure the baby's in there? Who's going to have it? You know. And would you say therefore, but because I think, I'll tell you the thing that I think is holding me back the most is I know that there's going to be a lot of work from the offset to get them to where I want it to be. So for example, I'm going to have to create like almost operations manual, operations procedure, instead of like me just like, for example, they might be like, Athena, how do I do this? I might think in my head, like from a psychological point of view, do you know what's quicker if I just do it? It's quicker if I just do it, because I can do it in like two seconds. And then it's like, yeah, but then that's so short. Like, what's the words? Short minded, like the vision's so short. You've got, you're excited. You've got to think about, okay, Athena, put those longer, that effort in now, create the operations manual, create the procedure so that you therefore don't have to do it. I think that's where the, that's where the, what the blockage that I have is I've got so much on my plate at this moment in time. I therefore have to create, I therefore have to put more onto my plate again to create this, but then to have it freer in the long term. I think, I think that's it. it's something that constantly comes up with my clients. It takes four minutes to fix something now with their VA, but then when they get the next VA, the same problem will happen. Or they take 16 to 18 minutes to do it now, tweak that procedure or just make a new procedure that works for the current situation. And they've got that for this VA and the next VA. And it's a mindset thing because I guess as... small business owners, we're so used to just cracking on and getting everything done and solving our life problems right now that work for us. It's a huge mindset shift to go right. Even though I don't have any time today, I've got to fix this procedure so that my VA can crack on and I've got this for the next VA. You know, I had to do all of this by myself when I did it for the leading agency in the rent to rent business, but This is why I break down what I do with my clients and I'm with them each week so that they don't fall off the wagon and that they don't get sucked back into stuff like that because when you do take two minutes or four minutes to do something, you're essentially allowing yourself to be sucked back into low hourly rate activities. You need to be thinking bigger. am. That's exactly where I am at the moment. You're 100 % right. I'm listening to every single word you are saying and I'm like, she's so right. One of the things, if it's okay with you, if you feel comfortable to talk about it, because as I said to you, I massively want to advocate this going forward for girls in prosperity. I want us to be healthy people. We have to put our health at our priority. Now, As a business owner, I'm doing better now, but there was a massive moment in my life where I just put health at the very, very bottom of my priority list. Like I just came last compared to the business. So talk to me about that time in your life where you said that you had some health bits going on for you. Yeah, so for anyone who doesn't know, I moved to the country in 2011 and then got a job on the high street, which gave me a massive boot up the bum to get out of it because I'd come from like earning extremely good money in New Zealand, working for myself, doing whatever I wanted. And then working on the high street was a completely different world, pretty much on minimum wage. It was a real shock to, you know, brought me right back down to earth that did. But I was like, I need to get back into business. So I decided on lease options and rent to rent and rent to rent took off for me. So I did very well with that. I feel as females, we kind of downplay things a lot. And I do find myself saying, I feel like it was the right time for me. I did really well, but I'm going to own it. So I bloody worked hard, you know, and I hustled and that rent to rent. Yeah, that rent to rent business took off. And my solution to my problems back then was like employing. staff, just employ people that will help me. But the problem with that, and I see this with leading agencies even today, is that they go and employ people on low hourly rates, so just above minimum wage for their property business, but they expect 40 grand a year mentality out of them. And I did that. So I was hiring, you know, lower paid employed people and expecting loads of stuff out of them for the property business. And that just didn't match. And so I was finding myself pretty much like we talked about with the VA, like stepping in, doing tasks, running around like a blow ass fly, doing everything, and still paying for these people training and them not following the training I used to do. I built manuals back then. That's a waste of time. Don't build a manual. Nobody's going to read your manual. And so... What happened was I found myself just doing more and more and more in the business, but also having to find hours somewhere to grow the business because you've got to keep that beast going. You know, when you've invested in systems, software, employing staff, there's this weird overlap where you bring on a staff member and that helps you, but then you've got to bring on the business to pay for the rest of their salary, plus keep your own lifestyle going. So... You end up with this beast of a business and after a while I realized I did nothing other than work. Work, eat, sleep. Literally that's it. And I found myself saying no to loads of different things like I never went to any family events with my husband's corner. She never went to any family events, which people then start to have a perception of you that you just don't care. You don't like them. You're not interested in them. Loads of stuff like that happened. I wasn't investing any time in friends. And my eating habits were so bad and I just ballooned, like, you know, just gained a load of weight. And then I just felt really crappy about myself. And it just kind of spiraled from there really. So I didn't have any health issues as like I ended up in hospital or anything. It was just really poor quality food and eating too much as treats. you know, like to treat myself because I'd had a really rough day and then having a drink of wine, which is more calories, it was just awful. And so I've kind of been on this journey for like two years now to get back to where I want to be. So that's, that's it. Yeah, but it's not just it like that's amazing. And and can I just say like, I also see you because you're massively into fitness. I just want to make this point massively now into fitness. You're you've got this standing desk, which I always see you I never see you sat down anymore. You're currently like stood doing this podcast, like telling me you got to get your steps in. You then put these incredible photos out of your incredible physique. Like, it's it's amazing. And I think what you said, I think I just want to touch on something you said. recently to me when we had a separate conversation was that you used to say things such as I don't have time to do that, I don't have time to go to the gym, I don't have time, but I think what you were saying was, and you can you can elaborate on this, but you were saying I actually now that I've made time for it I have more energy, I feel better, like what was it you said to me the other day? It's been mental. Like I used to say all the time, I don't have time for the gym, I've got to work. And I think this is a problem in property where the list is never done. You could work till midnight, the list will never be done. So you do have to have a cutoff. You have to have cutoff of business, you have to have a cutoff of talking shop at home with your spouse or your fam. You've got to have those cutoffs because otherwise you're just not healthy. And so I used to find myself more and more, you know, when I moved to the country, I was a big runner, loved running. And, you know, so I just found myself making those excuses of like, if I do work today, I can have an hour tomorrow. I could go for a run tomorrow. Next day, the poop would hit the fan more. So it's just property happens, doesn't it? And so I would say these things like, it's not enough hours in the day to do the gym and stuff, but... now that I've really committed to it and I have invested just so you know a lot of money into nutrition and coach and I'm now doing a show this year so that's why I'm very dedicated and why I said to you I don't leave the house much so I don't want anyone tempting me with any kind of food or anything but you know I've invested a lot of money into this coach and I before I started had all sorts of fears of investing in my health and stuff and getting fitter and paying for a coach and all that and I just, again, the time thing was in my head. I was like, how am I going to have time for all of this? Now, I'm like three hours that I spend in total with my cardio, my gym and my steps. And now I think to myself, what the hell was I doing for three hours before? What was I doing? Was I sitting on the sofa eating? I don't know. I don't know what I was doing with that time. And now I have so much more energy. I'm up earlier. I'm not even a morning person. up earlier cracking on with tasks that need to be done to move the needle. You know, not just getting up and doing low alley rate stuff all day long, like actual things that need to be done, like structured things. So yeah, anyone who's thinking, I couldn't invest in my fitness because I won't have time and I'll be knackered. You'll have more energy, you'll get more done, you'll feel so much more accomplished. Do you know what? I completely agree with you. I don't know if other listeners feel the same way. So I'm fantastic in the summer. I go to the gym. I go to classes. You know, you'll see on my Instagram when I'm posting my pictures for the gym is around summer. And we're going back to that cycle again. You're going to start seeing me more in my classes. And then winter comes and I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm not going up at 7 a No, no, no. It's too cold and it's too dark and no. And... You're so right, you know, like I've been really, really bad lately, like really bad, where I literally will wake up, make myself a cup of tea, don't really breakfast that much, it's too early in the morning for me, and then I will sit at my desk all day. All day. I'll sit at my desk. You might be lucky to see me go for about a 10 minute walk, if you're lucky. Apart from that, I'll sit all day. And you're right, you know, it's this idea of, a chocolate biscuit, a bag of crisps, Because it's quick, it's easy. You know, if I'm hungry, because I've got a to -do list as long as my arm, as everybody knows, and I've got back -to-back calls and back -to -back meetings because I do so much, both in trying to develop a business and also in doing the low hourly rate, this is what my issue is. I'm still doing the dog's body whilst trying to develop my businesses. I therefore don't make lunch because I don't have time to make lunch or psychologically, I don't have time to make lunch. So I grab a bag of crisps. I grab a chocolate bar because it fills a hole. It fills the void. Now I'm good to go. And what's really interesting, and I keep saying this and I say it again, I need to get a psychologist on the pod because I'm extremely self -aware of what's going on and what's happening. But then there's a difference of actually making a change to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, no, I used to be the same. So I wouldn't really breakfast, wouldn't eat all day. And I couldn't understand why I was big. I was like, I'm not eating all day. But then I would smash those calories at night, you know, like I'd really eat at night time. That was my eating time when I'd finished like mentally finished work. But, you know, I don't want to, I don't know. You know, when I talk about outsourcing and then doing things to save time and stuff like that. when it comes to your personal life as well, you have to be realistic with it. So for example, cleaning, get someone to clean your house, you know, cut out that out of your life, give you some more time. I saw it, somebody posted this, I think it was a Ted Talk and I was like, my God, this is like, yeah, this is what I live by. I don't clean. And you know, I am lucky that my husband is a cook, like he does do the cooking. My coach was asking me the other day, she was like, How do you get your husband to do it? I was like, I've been, I've been pretending to be lazy for like 15 years now. Like I can't drop the, can't drop the act now. He's got to cook otherwise you're starved to death. So he does the cooking. and then something that I found myself saying, cause I tried for two years to like get onto this fitness program. I originally contacted my coach like two years ago and, I just wasn't driving to the gym. You know, some people can get out of bed and go to the gym. I look. ugly in the morning and you know, I want to shower before I go to the gym and then you got to shower and you get back, you know, so it's like those kinds of things were obstacles for me. So I was like, do you know what? I'm just going to build a gym. So I built a gym. I just built the gym. And I think you can do that at home. You don't have to have the fancy bits. There's loads of stuff on Facebook marketplace that I've picked up and I built the gym at home. Now when I get up and I'm ugly, I can just go straight outside to the garage. It's been all converted. you know, it's, it's warm. It's lovely and there's no excuses and I saved myself at least an hour. I think that's amazing and look how you have a solution to, you're like, right, here's the problem, I'm gonna create a solution to that. You're like, I'm not gonna go, I'm gonna go build my own gym, which by the way, is like a dream of mine, like that's so cool. I would love to have like an outhouse in my garden and be like, right, I've built it. Especially for me, it would be like, I know it sounds really boring, for me, it would be like an amazing office where I could have. like a massive like girls and property lit up sign behind me or something like I would love that build my own car studio. But yeah, like just just building on that. And I think what's so important is to recognize that we're all doing our best but thinking, okay, how could we move forward? And you're right, particularly for property investors, I don't want to say women because, you know, guys listen to this as well. So for property investors, we do have so many things and you made an excellent point, which was, It's not just booking in a gas safety certificate or you know, it's booking in it's having to message Darren the plumber who then you then need to message the tenants and then make sure that Darren the plumber can do the date make sure the tenants can do the date then book them in then down the plumber sends you the WhatsApp to say actually do you want a boiler service while I'm here because you actually need your boiler service being done. Here are all the photos. Here's the invoices. Then the tenant going now that Darren the plumber's come round now we've actually got a couple of issues with the buy to let that we're now going to bring to your attention that you didn't know about before. So now you're going to deal with that. And the list goes on and on and on all whilst you're trying to grow yourself as a person and trying to grow your businesses and trying to acquire more mentees and trying to acquire more of this. And it's like, when does it actually end? When does it stop? And do you know what's amazing? You made an excellent point as well, Latoya, earlier. And I was literally sitting there nodding, thinking this. So I've done the Inca Trail in Peru because my job used to be as a travel agent. And what the difference is now between where I am now and where I used to be was in my old job of seven years as a travel agent. You only ever worked at work. So you worked bloody hard as a sales consultant in that job. My God, did I work the hardest, like ridiculously hard. But I turned, let's just say I turned it off at 8 p I left my laptop at work. I left my phone at work. Like it was all there. So nobody could reach me outside of work. And then when you went on holiday, you could, nobody could reach you. No one could reach you because you had everybody else then pick the rest of the team, picking up your work and vice versa. I pick up their work and they went, and so you actually got a break. You actually got a holiday for a while. We two weeks. And then you came back refreshed. What has changed is I now go away. and take my laptop and my mobile phone with me. So work comes with me. So I'm there for trying to, let's just say as if I'm trying to climb and walk the Inca trail, which would probably have no signal, but just say it did. I'm now working and I'll be like sipping a Pina Colada on the beach whilst on my mobile phone and I can't switch off. Whereas I used to be able to switch off because even though my job was hell, it was able to put a stop to it. So I find that quite interesting that, You know, it's like, well, just leave your, you know, people would listen to this and say, I think, you know, just leave your laptop at home. It's not rocket science, but you're like, yeah, but you don't understand. Then nobody runs the business for two weeks. And in my eyes, the business then collapses. So that's when that's where the psychology runs. So do you have any kind of thoughts about that at all? Yeah, I think, you know, as business owners, as our responsibility to keep that business going, if you don't have systems and you don't have a team of VA's or a VA to help you, unfortunately, you have to suck it up and you got to wear the business on your pocket, you've got to. But I want people to know that even if you put all of the systems in, and I'm talking about, I'm not talking about big leading agencies here that can... you know, can sustain eight to 10 staff. I'm talking about your general property person that might have one, you know, VA and maybe another part -timer or something like that, or one VA. You know, when you get to that stage, even then you're still not going to be able to go on holiday and do nothing for, I mean, I go away for six to eight weeks, you know, and so I have a agreement with my VA. She knows when I'm in the business. So I do half an hour when I'm away each morning, Monday to Friday, and actually that makes my gut settle. You know, when you're running multiple property businesses or business in general, I don't know if you can relate to this, but just having your finger on the pulse and knowing the poop hasn't hit the fan, everything's all fine. That allows me to go on with my day and my holiday. I'm quite happy to invest at least half an hour a day to that. And I think if anyone's growing their property portfolio, not talking about, if you want to have a couple of single lets and live the life, What a dream. But if you are wanting to grow, you know, you're not going to get on a beach for nine months of the year and do nothing. It's not, we don't live in that kind of business. You've got to put something in. So you can have a good holiday and have a good team as well. And just do your check -in and then have your holiday. Yeah. But if you don't have a team, you're not going to get anything. I'm going to take that away actually. That's my takeaway from this pod. I love that. I think you're absolutely right. Maybe if you just do 30 minutes in the morning while you're away so that you've got the finger on the pulse and have a really good VA member who has their pulse on it throughout the whole day, that will actually just make you feel that much better. And therefore. freak, like you and I are. It's just me going for the notice. It really settles my gut. My husband knows I need to be left alone for half an hour, put the coffee down and walk away and don't touch her, don't go near her, leave her for half an hour. Now I'm like the best person to be on holiday with. But if I don't get that first thing in the morning, just to check in, to make sure, because the way that I've built the systems, I can look at everything and see where everything's up to. So I don't have to contact my VA and say, have you done this? Have you done that? I can visually see where everything is up to. And so some days it's not even half an hour, but I allow myself the half an hour to check everything, then I'm done. Do you know, I think that's absolutely incredible. I think, I think, yes, that is such a good, good piece of advice in doing it. And then just before I go on to property disasters, one other thing we spoke about the other week, because I appreciate I've done this podcast a little bit, a little bit differently for this time, but just so that we, we do, we do get some really hot, hot tips as well for the pod, which I'm all about for the listeners. You actually came on and did an amazing session for, for the star collective community. And actually, I'm hoping, obviously, which she will be, to be coming to Girls in Prosperity. And you spoke about some amazing platforms that people can go on in terms of task management, you know, some really cool ones, and some that I'd never even heard of before. So can we just, if people are listening to this, and you want to get a pen and a pad out at this point, guys, just if you could please list off some of the amazing softwares that people could use to do that, that would be so helpful, I think. Yeah, definitely. So I have built my, what I would call my day -to -day management tool of the business visually. I've built that all in Asana and you could have Asana or Trello. Those are the top two I would say you pick from. I had a client that came to me that had monday .com. It just doesn't work for the visual aspect of the business. Great for jobless tasks for yourself, but as in visually for property businesses, Asana and Trello are it. and to upgrade within the two of them, they're pretty much very similar money. I think it's like 10, 12 pounds a month. So you can get the free version of course, but if you are running CRMs or anything a bit more fancier, then you will need that next package up. So a sign or trailer, you've got to have that in your business. Now, some people have said to me, because I've got Arthur online and our leading agency, which does a lot of, you know, alerts for certificates or whatever. And I know there's other tenant management software out there that does the same, but I don't think people understand that, you know, in order for me to go into Arthur online to see where the workflow is up to, it just doesn't exist. I might be able to see that the tenants were messaged. I might be able to see that something's been booked, but I don't know where it's up to in the workflow. So that's why Asana and Trello are so crucial in the property business for growth and keeping, because, you know, as business owners, we are responsible. And HMOs, I can't stress to people, if you miss a job or you miss a task from the management rigs when you get your HMO inspection, that's like fine territory and criminal record territory. So you cannot miss anything. So it's all great handing over to VAs, but we still have to spot check. So, Insana Trello, great for that. What else did I talk to the ladies about? Clocker file? Yes. one. Yeah, so clockify is what I use for my VA's timesheet. I use the free version and it's absolutely beautiful. So I integrate that with Asana. She has all her tasks in there. I've done her a weekly diary and it all integrates in so that when I get that weekly timesheet for my spot checking, everything's all color coded, it's all beautiful. I know what she's done with her time. And for any people who have VA's, so I've had clients before with the VA's and I ask them for the list of low Alley Rate stuff and they'll go, I'll send you the spreadsheet from the VA and I get the spreadsheet. I'm like, took half an hour for that. Took an hour for that. Took 15 minutes for that. I'm like, it's very rounded. I don't know anyone who takes exactly the rounded minutes to do a task. Whereas my VA, if she does check the emails, there's only two emails. It might be that she only charges me on Clockify for two minutes and 13 seconds. Great. That's what I'm about. I want to pay people well. I do pay my VA as well, but I want to be paid for the time that takes to do the task. Not 15 minutes. It's not, you know, you take two minutes and you have a break for whatever the rest is of 15 minutes. If it takes two minutes to do a task, that's all I wanted to get charged for. So Clockify is a really good one. Was there anyone, any others that you wanted me to talk about? No, Clockify was the one. I loved that. I've never heard of it before because I think my question to you was, how do you know how long it's taken a VA to do a task and do you charge them per hour? And you said, no, you do Clockify. And I thought, that's fantastic. And you'll hear LaToya, like within our world, within the property world, everybody says, who can recommend a VA? Who knows a good VA? I need a VA. I need a VA. I think sometimes they don't even actually know what they're asking for half the time. So. What would you say, like, of course, the first thing is to come and talk to yourself, which we're going to get onto. But, but let's just say that people are in a stage at the moment where maybe they can't invest and they're just looking to just grow their businesses. What would be, let's go with top, really quickly, top snapshot, three tips to think about when looking all the right places to go to look for a decent VA. Yes, so first thing I would say is you need to have a detailed job description. Because I find as well that people get excited by a VA. The VA says, I've worked in property before. And like I said, we've all been there where we needed someone six months ago. So we're desperate by this stage. So someone says they've got to answer all our prayers. They're a property VA. I'll say that in little marks there. They're going to save us. And then they start working and they're like, you know, this is different to the HMO business I've worked in before and it all goes down as a slippery slope. So have a detailed job description so when you do connect with the VA, you can say, nice to meet you. Can I send you this job description and check that this is definitely for you and be as detailed and brutal as possible so that if they go, for example, you use Clockify and every minute, every second is accounted for, they'll either go happy ass with that or they'll go no. Thanks but no thanks, I like to do four hourly blocks a day and you can already discount that person and go, I'm not about that life, I don't want to pay somebody four hours a day. So you can discount that. And then with regards to overseas, I personally go agency because I feel that it gives me one point of contact to talk to who can really understand my business and they can go away then and pick two or three good ones from their team for me to interview. rather than me going people per hour or fiver and try and do it myself. Yeah, it's a minefield out there. So I like an agency owner when I go foreign. And then when I'm in the UK, I get my UK VA's off social media, because I love to have the chat. I love to see how do they respond? How quickly do they respond? I'm all about that. So I get my UK virtual assistance from social media. Love that. Fantastic top tips. Really appreciate that. And, you know, I appreciate that the podcast might've been slightly, slightly differently, because I really wanted to have a proper chat with you to be like, because I am, I'm your target audience. Like I really am, you know, and you just made a fantastic point, which is, are you actually going to contact them Athena in six months time and you become desperate for one, or are you going to contact them now where you know you need one, but, but you know, it's coming. Cause I know, I know it's coming. I'm just. But I'm almost I don't know what's holding me but we'll have a conversation. I'm literally gonna we will be setting up a call to where I'm just letting you know that like it now because I need I need to do something different now going forward because because the businesses are thriving but me as a person like the work-life balance thing is not okay and it's like right this is what you need to do this is what you can outsource let's let's make this better. Yeah. what I was kind of just having a chat about and hopefully the listeners related and they're like, yes, Athena, everything you said, I feel too. So to finish, and you're amazing and you do it in such a fun, vibrant and really like understanding way. And I feel like you would be the perfect person where if somebody was to say something to you, you would push back, but in the correct way, you would be like, yeah, but... have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? And I think that's what makes fantastic people is when they don't just agree with you, they actually sit there and go, yeah, but you haven't thought about this. Like, I really love that. So I think that's, that's. probably the key witness coming out of me. I've got a client starting and she was a bit nervous about coming on board. We're going to do the full package together. And she sort of, in the end, she's sort of said, she's always wanted to unpick the business. Nothing wrong with her business. Her business is successful, but she's always wanted to just unpick it and get things all done and dusted. And we're going to do that together. And I think it's because she knows that I will give her the pushing and the push back. that she needs. And when you get strong characters and property that are used to running their own business and doing everything on their own, they need pushing. They need sometimes some gentle motivation, but other times some challenging so that we can really get the business not right for now, but also for the future. Yeah, I absolutely love that. That's perfectly said in a nutshell. It's not about just what's right for now. It's about what's right for the future. And I think that's a fantastic takeaway. So obviously based on your lettings business and your rents, rents and your HMOs, you must have a property disaster for me. You must. God, weekly. I'm trying to think of a dessert. Give me a fun one. Give me a fun one. Right. God, what can I have? I really honestly, I'm trying to think of what something not really, I'm trying to be careful what I say as well. No, no, no. anyone, just like an example. an example. God, what can I say? What about the beginning of like your rent to rent journey? Like there must have been like things that, that when I'm saying property mishaps, I'm like, like I do rent to rent, you know, there are mishaps every single day. Like you must have like something from the early days to be like, my God, you know what? This actually happened. I think, I don't know really. I think it's, when you're dealing with HMOs especially, it's a lot of people issues. I don't think people realize the people management you've got to do, whether it's, someone started sleeping with somebody else and they've had a falling out. Now someone else has moved in and they're sleeping with the air more. The food stuff in the kitchen does my nothing now. Like when my VA's talk about, someone's now nicking food from the kitchen, I'm like, don't. I'm not dealing with it. Just not. Like, I'm not there anymore. So that kind of stuff. What else? Just, people are strange, aren't they? Some of the things you have to deal with, you're like, god. is actually showing me? I'll tell you what this is showing me. This is showing me that you're in a fantastic place where you have your portfolio and you have outsourced it. Because you no longer hear the stories that are actually happening. You're almost like, I can't even give you a story because everybody else deals with the stories for me. Like ask my VA almost. Whereas I'm you, but so many years ago where I'm the one who's dealing with, Athena, someone stole my food. Athena, someone put their stuff in my cupboard. Athena, someone put their food on my shelf. You know, Athena, I don't like this person. And I'm like, like, that's me. That's where I am. And I'm like, for God's sake. So I'm looking for, hopefully, one of my tasks, VA, deal with these people. Yeah, the one thing that I still do deal with is debt collecting. So that probably comes back to the money side of it. So I'm a very strange person when it comes to debt collecting. One thing that people always see me for on social media and know me for is I do everything in Cornwall. And I like that because again, back to the control freakness, I do like to be able to, if I have to get to those properties. And so I do do my own debt collecting. Something weird about me is some people might feel like, my God. But yeah, if a tenant doesn't pay, they soon will pay because I just turn up at people's houses. So that's me. Yeah. So I still do do that. Yeah, but that's the thing and therefore you what you've done is you've decided these are the tasks that I still want to do but these are the tasks that I'm gonna outsource to somebody else and that's exactly what you've just represented is this idea of This is you know, you're not saying that you don't have to do anything in the business It's saying well what what the things that you do want to do, you know, what what is it that Alice Darnall says? Like what are your energy fillers? What are your energy drainers? you know, outsource your energy drainers, keep your energy fillers and just do that. So I love that. Latoya, people are definitely going to want to be speaking to you. Girls who are in the community group, Latoya is going to be coming on and doing a whole Girls in Prosperity session. So you're going to meet her there. But for anyone who wants to get in contact with you now to find out a bit more about what you can offer with your packages and also like VA advice, where is the best place for people to do that? Yeah, so I guess my kind of hangout is Instagram. That's where I hang out. So, and I do my own messages. So if you message me, we can chat in there. And then I'm on all the socials. So like Facebook, I've got YouTube and podcasts and stuff. But yeah, Instagram is kind of my hangout where you can catch me. So either that or Facebook. There you go. Amazing. And if you want to get in touch with me, I'm Athena Dobson underscore official. on Instagram, we are girls in property on email. It's girls and property pod at gmail .com. And then of course that you can still, come and join the girls and property community, group either DM me the word community or find it at girls in property pod .com is where you find all the info. The welcome meeting is on Tuesday, the 4th of June. So make sure that you're there. And also, gala tickets went out today, guys. So there's only 80 spaces available for the Christmas gala. So if you want to come and have a party, see it as the Christmas party, expense the crap out of it, and let's go and have some fun. But Latoya, thank you so much. This has been one of my favourite episodes, if I'm completely honest with you. I've loved it. So thank you for your energy. Really, really appreciate it. And everyone, anytime. And everyone, have a wonderful Monday. Thank you guys for listening, and enjoy. Bye.