No Money Down: Myth or Reality? Top Creative Solutions with Sophia Botchway

In this exciting episode of Girls in Property, Athena sits down with Sophia Botchway to debunk the idea of "No Money Down." Is it a myth, or are there creative solutions to acquire property with none of your own money? Sophia shares her journey into the property world and how she has helped many families over the years with her innovative solutions and problem-solving techniques.

Sophia recounts how she acquired her first property, worth £300,000, without using her own money and recently secured a £500,000 house through a rent-to-rent deal. This episode is packed with education, wisdom, and heartfelt conversation between two friends that you won’t want to miss.

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Transcript

0:04

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. How is everybody doing today? I hope you're all well and hopefully it is sunny wherever you may be. Today I have somebody very, very special I'd like you to introduce you to. She's absolutely fabulous. She does amazing things within the industry and she's all round just a fabulous individual as well, which is so important. So today I'd love to introduce you to Sophia Botchway. Hey Sophia. Hi Athena, thank you for having me on board today. I'm super excited to be here, really excited. I've wanted to get you on for ages because you're just that type of person that when I speak to so many people within the property industry, everybody knows you. Everyone's like, yeah, I know Sophia and Sophia is amazing and Sophia does this. And I just love what you represent. I love who you are as a person as well as a business owner. that's what this podcast is all about is really giving voices to those women should be recognised within the industry. So yes, I'm looking forward to today. Exciting. I've been following you as well, listening to your podcast and been hoping I'll be able to get on there one day and here I am. So super excited. Yes, indeed. So Sophia, before we get into today's podcast, could you first of all, please introduce yourself, tell a little bit about who you are, something exciting about you, and then what we'll do is we'll then take the conversation from Yeah, so I'm actually an accountant by profession. I was trained by the National Audit Office where I worked for 12 years and then went on to become a secondary school maths teacher and I realised that that's not actually for me. I'm not keen on children. So I then went back to doing accountancy again. I have got a little boy who have medical needs and because of his needs, I give up my job to start my own accountancy firm so I can work. around him and you can say that that is the biggest turning point in my life really. So during his needs and my accountancy practice I had clients who need somewhere to put their money and I just said to them why don't you put it into property and they ran series we don't know what to do can you help us. So I started helping them by saying in my head buying cheap properties. where they could buy cash only. And that started to grow. And I thought, wait minute, I'm making them money. I want to make some money for myself as well. And that's how I got into property, really. Wow, that's amazing. And there might be others listening out there who also have children who require like extra attention, extra needs. mean, what has that been like for you? Like as a business owner, as a mum, trying to juggle all of those things. That must be quite a lot. It has been quite a lot. main thing is obviously you have to get your priorities right and to me, my son was my priority. As much as I love my profession, I love my job, his needs comes first and I decided to make the decision to give up my job, to work around his medical needs because I know that in the future, however he turns out, be down to It's all about priorities, setting your goals, your time and prioritising your day-to -day needs. And working for myself, it made it easier to be able to get him to hospital, sit in the hospital ward for his surgeries. And yeah, no one could say they don't have the time for something. It's about setting the goals, setting the time and just going with it really. I love that. What an amazing attitude. And this is why I wanted to get you on the podcast because you've done so many amazing things like as a business owner and property investor, but you're also an amazing human being as well. And this is really what I want to show people through the podcast, which, which I love. And what we're going to focus on today with, the podcast also just to let the listeners know is your kind of, you like expertise, skillset is a lot around the no money down techniques and strategies. Yes. you're the queen of that effectively. That's what we do. So that's really what we're going to be talking about today. I've never been called that before, I like that title, the Queen of Lomani down. I will, I will give you that title. Hathall will give you that title. Before we go into talking about sort of no money down strategies and what exactly that even means for the listeners, can you first of all, please tell us something in true traditional girls and property podcast style, what you're celebrating at the moment. Oh, I am super celebrating two things. Firstly, my son last month after 15 years finishes medical treatments and we celebrated with a big party. So there's a lot less hospitals now. And yeah, that's huge. That's really huge. So he's no longer wheelchair bound. He's actually able to walk. And then the second thing is that I've been running a property networking event. every month, which is growing month on month and next month we're celebrating our first year anniversary and now have more than 50 people attending each month. Wow, you more than 50 each month. each month is getting bigger and bigger. I think probably by the second year we should have at least 100 attendees. That's incredible. And you're based in Oxford, aren't you? You're networking. Yeah. So anybody who's based in Oxford, you must, must get in touch with Sophia and go to her networking event. It's, it's incredible. And I know the other people that go to your networking event and they're fab. And I'm obviously going to be coming and speaking at your event, aren't I? are indeed. I can't wait. That's going to be so exciting to be the bomb. Yay! yes, just come to Oxford and yeah, just networking is so key, isn't it? And you know what, I'm really at that stage now as well. So one of the things I'm celebrating is actually the types of, I can't talk about it too much with certain things because it's still not been announced, but this aspect of collaboration, which is happening. So I've been speaking to quite a few people at the moment and what's been amazing is this year they're saying things like, where you come and speak at our events and I've got loads of speaking things coming up, which is so exciting because I think that brand awareness actually is the secret to everything and networking. You can do all the analysis you want on property and you can sit behind a screen and do all that you want on social media. But I think actually forming those meaningful relationships and being in the room is a completely different ball game. And being credible within your field. And there's a particular collaboration that's about to happen, which I can't talk about just yet because it hasn't been announced yet, but I'm going to be doing something really, really exciting with a really exciting other company soon, which is coming this year. So yeah, I think it's all about, like I said, collaboration, coming together, good. It's not even about, it's not even about genders anymore in my world. It's about within the property world, this aspect of who are good people. because there are so many, unfortunately, within any industry, there's lots of cowboys out there and lots of things that happen that I don't necessarily morally agree with. So I'm more than trying to understand about men and women, I'm more about who is good within this world. So that's who I'm trying to collaborate with at the moment. So hopefully that announcement will be seen, which is very exciting. excited. I mean, my property network, we actually have a motto, which is we collaborate, we do not compete. That's our motto there and everyone knows and we say it and we help each other. I help people, they help me. Yeah, we all support each other. We do not compete with each other at all. And it's the motto of my property networking event. I love that. I love that. And that's so powerful as well, because you go so much further together than on your own. So let's celebrate that, celebrate your networking, celebrate me coming to speak at your networking collaboration and just being, just being overall, just, this is going to be a fantastic rest of the year. Cause we're already in July now. Like we've got, we've got the year to really just push forward. So that's fab. So Sophia. so fast. But know, they really do actually, they do go really fast. And sometimes actually what happens just because you mentioned that is sometimes you're like, I can't believe it's been a month and you'll either think to yourself, my goodness, I've achieved so much this month, or you'll think to yourself, what have I done this month? I haven't done anything. So it's a real mixed bag, I feel. I get that feeling all the time. Some days I'm thinking, wow, I've got a lot done. And other days I'm thinking, I haven't done anything. Do you know that that is the world of entrepreneurship, literally. I love it. So Sophia, before we get into kind of the conversation around No Money Down and the different strategies that you've taken on board, because there's lots of them. Can you first of all, just for the listeners, like tell a bit about your story and how did you go from the, I appreciate about your son and things, but how did you go into the accounting and then go into looking at things like No Money Down strategies? How did it actually form? Yeah, and what was your first deal like, for example? Well, I'm very much from second generation West African immigrants where your profession is chosen for you by your parents. growing up as a child, you can see what your interests are, you gravitate to. And apparently, I just happened to be very, very, very good at maths. I was a bit like a human calculator. So my parents decided that I should do accountancy. But funny enough, I wanted to study maths at university. And my mum's like, no, don't do maths. You end up being a maths teacher, which is boring. There's not enough money in there going to accountancy. So that's what I went to do. I end up doing accountancy. But then as you know, I became a secondary school maths teacher anyway, later on. And I realised very quickly that one, I don't like the kids and two, there's not enough money in it. So I left. and went back to my country. So yeah, so my parents were right after all and I'm still in it. Working for myself means that obviously I make a lot more money than when I was working for central government. And that's what brought me into my career really. On the property side, when my son started needing more help, taking time out, working for myself, could work around him. But then I realized very quickly again that I don't really have the freedom and passive income that I would like. I still have a job. I have my cancer business, but it's still more or less a job. I have to work for that money every day. Literally, there's no money coming behind the background in a way or lump sum of money. And fast forward. in 2020 during lockdown, most people heard a story, was in our worldwide news, my friend was in a car accident with her husband and four children and she and the three children died. Their baby and her husband were in hospital fighting for their lives and while they were there, their landlord decided it wasn't going to renew their tenancy for them and I very very much wanted to buy the property. So he's got somewhere to come back to should the need happened. His parents were not in the position to do that. I wasn't able to do that. I was in a position to have that kind of money to do that. And that's what made me think in that I don't want to be that in that position anymore. I want to be able to help more people if I can. I want to be able to help financially, physically, mentally. I wish I had a property I could giving to him easily. And that's what got me looking into more about what can I do to make more money. And then even though I've been helping clients with buying small properties for cash, I never knew that you can actually build a portfolio not having money. And I came across a property course that literally changed my life. People talking about property. portfolios using none of your own money, strategies where that's not requiring any money. And I was fascinated, absolutely fascinated. And I started looking into that. And I must say, I put all my energy in the first year into really, really understanding it, sponging all the information and putting it into practice because I want to really, really be good at it. And that is what I've been doing, really. Yeah. It's been brilliant. Yeah. And I've been doing that now for two and a half years where I've really been doing a no -manning -down strategy and really focusing on that. And I've built a phenomenal portfolio from that. Yeah, amazing. So let me ask you a couple of questions about this. Okay, so first of all, for like a listener who's listening to this, when you hear like a no money down strategy, for example, some listeners will know what that means. And some listeners like what does like no money down mean. And there are obviously different types of no money down strategies as well. So as part of your portfolio, which are the ones that you that have been the most successful that you have the most of in your portfolio? yeah. When they say no money down, it doesn't mean that you're buying a property without any money. It means none of your own money or none of your own money at the time of purchase. If you want to buy properties or build a portfolio the traditional way, where you have to save up for a deposit, buy the first property, then save up for the next property. you run out of life before you be able to build a portfolio unless you're a billionaire. Even billionaires don't use their own money when they're trying to grow a bigger business. So no money down means using strategies which does not require you to use any of your own money immediately to build that portfolio. And there's lots of different strategies that you can use to do that. My first big property. My first purchase in a bigger way using no money downs strategy, I bought a property through an auction which requires £300,000 for the purchase, renovation and legal is another £75 ,000. I raised the money from friends and family, the whole lot, the whole £375 ,000 and I bought the property cash. So it didn't cost me anything, not a penny. So it's a no money down for but it's money used to buy it. After the renovation, property was then valued at over 500 ,515 in fact. So I then leveraged the banks to refinance that property, which allows me to take all the money out that I borrowed from friends and family and give it all back to them with interest. So that then went into my first portfolio and it has not cost me a single penny. And in the meantime, it's now cash flowing, which is giving me the passive income that I didn't have before. Now I've got income coming Yeah, fantastic. And would you therefore say, so there was a lot of, when people are naturally starting out within the property industry, the majority of people don't really have readily funds available to them. Yeah, and you didn't. So a question that I get asked most frequently, and I don't know how you went about doing this yourself. So for example, they'll say, okay, Sophia, so you started off when you don't have any money and you managed to go and acquire this funds from your friends and family. take on this property. So what would you say to the listeners who are listening thinking well how do I convince my friends and family to give me this investment when I actually don't have the experience within the property industry? How can I prove it to That's the same facts tell story. So showing the deal that you have or the research that you've done on the deal, showing the numbers and giving a clear indication to people or what your exit strategy will be and they can see how you're going to be paying them back. That is a really, really big, powerful step to take, especially when people have their money sitting in a bank. they are not making any money on it at all. It's not giving them the level of interest that you can offer them. Their money is only secured up to 85 ,000 pounds. If the bank were to go bust, any money they have over 85 ,000 is gone. So you're in effect, you're doing them a favor by helping them utilize their money. Not everyone wants to sort of build a property portfolio, but at the same time, they don't really want their money sitting there. So by you helping them with your knowledge, experience, or even if you don't have experience, the knowledge and training, they can see the benefit of a win -win for them. That you are utilising their money, but they're getting a better return. The money is in the property. In bricks and mortar, as they say, is as safe as houses. There's a reason why an investment in property is as safe as houses. But that's literally the only investment that you can, apart from maybe gold, that you can touch. know, stocks and shares, cryptocurrencies, all of those things, they all disappear like that. During lockdown, most people have sold 90% of their stocks and shares wiped out. I was one of them. And that really annoyed me. You know, but with Bricks and Mortar, you can touch it, you can see it, you know where it is. Yeah, I love that. And I don't know what your thoughts are about this, but I always think that when people go to look for these investors in order to do no money down strategies, and people say to me, how do I go about asking for it? Sometimes it's, I genuinely believe it's also, it's a skill and it's an art and it's all around mindset because you can see it as it's like you're going like with a begging bowl going, please, sir, can I have some more? Please give me a hundred thousand pounds. And it's like, no, that's not how you do it. you do it the way you just described it, which is this is an amazing opportunity for you. I'm gonna do this with or without you. So do you wanna come be a part of it? Yes or no. And that's kind of the way that you've got to do it where you're like, if you miss out on this opportunity, that's on you. But this is what it's gonna be and this is how incredible it's gonna be. And I think that really is like an art, isn't it? It's like a skill, like the mindset. Yeah, the thing is people get worried about they feel that the person with the money have got the power. But the thing is there's so much money everywhere. There's more money in the world than there are properties in a way. There are money everywhere. So even if one person says no, the next person might say yes. So don't put them on a pedestal just because they've got the money that you're asking for. Don't make them the most powerful. Your knowledge is more powerful than their money. Mm, I love that. yeah, it takes a lot more time to get that knowledge and have that confidence to put those office in to do the, get the work done and, you know, make sure that builders are doing what they're supposed to do. You're doing, dealing with the solicitors and dealing with the banks later on, all of that, you're doing all of that. All they're doing is just putting the money in. So actually you've got the more of the power, but most starting out get nervous about asking for the money so they give the power to the person with the money and it should be the other way around because you're doing most of the Exactly, exactly. that's that and I think as soon as you have that mindset shift, you really do start to see it like that. And I think that's how it comes across to the investor. But they're like, yeah, I do actually need your help to go and put my money to use as opposed to being in the bank. in terms of in terms of then no money, no money down, let's say this aspect of no money down, not using your own money as it were. There's a lot of, if you like, controversial, let's say, conversations that happen within the industry, where people are saying things such as, once upon a time, no money down definitely worked because of the interest rates and because of how the market used to be. But now because of, you know, labor coming in now because of the interest rates now because of all of these aspects, it's very difficult to actually get no money down strategies to stack. because everyone's trying to get the most money out of the deal, both the vendor and actually the investor as well. So what would you say about that? you say that, like what's your opinion? In my opinion, it's actually a lot even a lot more opportunities now than there's ever, ever been. Higher interest rate means also a higher rental income that you can get. It means more people are struggling so you can help them a lot more. People in negative equity, for example, they can't sell their property, but they need to do something. You can help them so you can still build your portfolio without having to worry money because you can take over the property, for example, you know, do a corporate let where you can be able to help trades who are working in the area. You can be able to charge more and that would be more than enough to cover the mortgage as well as make you a profit as well. So when there's interest rates going up, when the government is sort of like putting more pressure on property people such high stamp duty, that's actually when there's a lot more opportunity for us as well where we can do more no money down deals. The market in the past couple of years, the way it is, actually what's helped me build my portfolio in a really fast way and in a bigger way than I'll ever imagine. When there's interest rates really, really low and so many people buying. it's actually, that's what actually makes it lot harder. So now, now is the time to actually grab the opportunity. Yeah, I love that. So for example, if we were just to take one example, then where let's take this person who's in negative equity. I think there's gonna be quite a few of those people, you know, when the whole 95% loan to value came out, which is ridiculous. And so everyone puts 5 % deposits down, and they're all getting stuck because they're now all in negative equity. Or I shouldn't say a lot of people are in negative equity. So let's say that a person, let's say yourself goes to go and meet with these people. How would you, just go over that example one more time. How would you offer your services and your expertise to these people? I'm actually in the middle of doing one at the moment where they, you know, they bought the property during the peak time where it was really high and interest rates was really, really low. So the property that they bought for 500,000 at 90 % loan to value. So they paid 430 ,000, for example, that property is now only worth 450 ,000. they now need another 90 % or 95 % loan to value and it's been valued so low that the mortgage they're getting is now 390 ,000, which is a lot less than they need. So they can't clear off the current mortgage. And the current mortgage company is not renewing it for them because it will be over 100 ,000, over 100%. They're stuck. Now these couple are moving to, they want to move to the coast. They wanted to buy something a bit cheaper, but they can't do it. I've offered to take the property of their hands. I'm actually, the mortgage payment is now just over 2 ,000 pounds. And I've offered to cover the mortgage, the whole mortgage. They were actually gonna walk away and just give the keys to the bank. Now, if the bank were to auction that house way below the current mortgage balance, they will still have to pay the excess and it will totally ruin their credit for six years or more. I've saved them their credit, I've saved them their house, I've taken over the mortgage, I've got trades, their property is now going to be going into corporate let. So trades will be coming to stay Monday to Friday, the holiday people over the weekend, that will make more than enough money to pay the mortgage on a monthly basis. And I'm also going to be giving them money every month, excess money. So they have money to go and rent somewhere else in the coast that they wanted to go to. It's a win -win, but yet it has not cost me any money. Yeah, that's brilliant. Where would you find, to where did you find this particular couple? How did you come across You'd hear networking. The networking is super powerful, really, really powerful. A lot of, I get a lot of deals from people who I met on networking events or even from my church. my friend wants to sell their house, but they can't sell. my so and so is moving and they want to rent their house out. It's a lot, a lot of it is networking and also getting to meet agents. I've been building a big relationship with your agents. Again, they bring those problems to you. Can you solve this problem? And I've done quite a few of that, solving problems for agents, which is build a really good relationship. I was just going to say you are literally a problem solver. That's your title. You solve problems. prophecy problem solver. And that's what's so wonderful. think, I think what people maybe get hung up on is this idea of, you know, not thinking enough outside the box. I think that's the way you've got to think when it comes to types of strategies. And what you've just given a beautiful example of, which I love, is sometimes when you think about corporate leases, or in other words, if people don't know what that means, effectively rent to rent. And actually they might look at, okay, well, I've got a five bed HMO here, which has got students in and the person rents out every And that's typically what a rent -to -rent would therefore look like. I'd take it on, I'd put professionals in, et cetera. What you've just demonstrated is how you could use the same technique, but it doesn't have to be on a property such as that. It could be on a property like a 500 ,000 pound house. And I think that's really interesting. It's thinking about the different ideas. On that particular one with the 500 ,000 pound example, could you have also maybe done a lease option on that as well? yeah, I could have done a lease option on there as well. I'll be buying it later on. I could have done exchange of delay completion as well and buy that later on. The reason why we decided to go for the rent -to -rent option is if in the future the owners do want to come back, we've got a three -year agreement. let's see the interest rate go back down and they say actually we don't like it so much on the coast as we thought we want to come back. They've got that opportunity. I look at each individual case and what is right for that person because as you said I solve problems. What is the problem now? What is there? What can I do to alleviate any any stress that they have now? I've got extended delay completion, two of them coming up and that's One of them, the owners move abroad, they're not going to be coming back. And then the other one, they bought another house and they couldn't sell the current one. So EDC was good for that. But with this couple, there's a chance that they might come back. So just a straightforward rent to rent is ideal for them. Focus on the problem, focus on the vendor's issues and try and solve that problem before your own need. they must have thought they absolutely struck gold speaking to you. They must have known, right, we need to talk to Sophia. Sophia will know the fact that they were going to give away, give back the keys and walk away from their property to now have the option to go back to their home. That is an absolute blessing, isn't and so get some money from it each month and the mortgage is taken care of. Wow, see, that's incredible. And if you were to say about your, let's go with first of all, what's your favorite, if you had one, like your favorite no money down strategy, or is it a case where you said to me before that you let it choose you depending on which house, like how would it work for Yeah, so people have like, you know, getting to property and they're like, I'm going to do HMO. I'm going to do only essays. I'm going to do this is my strategy. My strategy is I'm going to do HMOs. My strategy is I'm going to do singlets. How do know if you don't even, if you haven't even got the house, you don't know why the person is leaving the house or giving you the keys for the house. I don't have a strategy. I let the strategy choose me. When meet a vendor, I find out what their problem is and also the location of the house, the quality of the house, the size of the house, all of those things determine what strategy I'm going to do. It just so happens that I've done mostly single x so I give properties to families who the local estate agent don't want to get the time of day to because they don't fit the mold, i .e. they don't have huge salary or, sorry. their single parents, sorry about that, their single parents where the estate agent think they can't afford the rent or their income is not high enough or they only want a six month tenancy, they don't want a year's tenancy, all matter of reasons that they need a home but the estate agent won't get the time of day too. I help those type of people with my single X. I also have done a lot service accommodation. I currently have 12 service accommodations. Again, I didn't go out to look for service accommodation. It just so happens that I have people who have the need for it and the houses that I came across were perfect for those. I've done tenant buyer where a family needed a home. Again, agents wouldn't help them, but they have money to buy a place. for the deposit for a place they can afford the mortgage but they haven't been in the country long enough to have long credit history. So I did a tenant buyer for them. So I like strategy choose me rather than the other way around really. That's why I have a mixed bag. But the biggest two I have are single lets and service accommodations. absolutely love that and you'll know many that I speak about let the strategy choose you that was one of my top five tips I gave for for property investors and a lot of my mentees will be listening to this and probably smiling because the thing that I always say to them whenever they they try and go and they say to me, what should I say on this viewing? What should I say to this vendor? I always say to them, what is their problem? That's question I always ask, what is their Yeah, problem. That's exactly what I do. Yeah, that's exactly what I say to my mentees as well. They, when they're going to do viewings and they're like, what should I be doing with it? Is it going to be an HMO? I said, how could you be deciding what you're going to do with it when you have been finding out the problem for the vendor? That is what you need to focus on. What is their problem? And see what strategy you can use to solve that problem. Exactly. Exactly. I absolutely love that. And in your experience of this world with developing the portfolio that you have through your no money down techniques and things, what would you say to listeners who are starting out in their journey or not even starting out, but are on this road, there's no money down road. They're in the thick of it. They're learning all the different strategies out there in order to go forward with it. Are there any caveats or things that you think they should really look out for to be aware of? maybe a mistake that maybe you made or a lesson that you made and things you wish you'd have known a year, two years ago. I will say that be careful about taking advice from people who are not where you want to be or doing what you want to do. There are so many cowboys and scammers out there who will be offering you properties or offering you advice who are not doing anything. It's all a front. So be super, super careful. Ask for evidence of everything. I've had people who are going for rent to rent properties, been giving keys only to find out that, and they've paid thousands of pounds out to supposedly landlords, only to find out that it's about six, seven other people who literally have keys for the same house, who have also paid thousands of pounds out. Yes. Gosh. It's just, it's off. It's some of the stuff I've been finding out is quite awful out there. Or people who are want to offering mentoring or property training and charging thousands of pounds, 15, 20, 30,000 pounds, but they don't actually own one property themselves or they haven't done any deals themselves. Really? They're charging like £30 ,000 and they don't have a property? yeah, someone contacted me and asked me if I'd joined in their mentoring program, you know, where they're going to guarantee you make 12 properties in your first three months and so forth. And the fee was £25 ,000 plus VAT. And then obviously, if they'd look at my socials properly, have done their homework, they would have known not to have contacted me. So I start asking them questions. So what area do you invest? So like how many have you done so far? And they just call out all these huge numbers. So what's the name of your company? Once check them on company's house. Can you send me, because obviously if they have deals, all of it will be connected on their company, a company's house. It will show them the mortgages that they have. can you send me sort of like evidence of money you've received? and so forth and needless to say they didn't want to go ahead with me they decided that I was in the best fit for the operation. You're not the best fit for us. You're asking too many questions, I think that's really good advice. And, you know, it's really tricky, isn't it? Because let's face it, like me and you, we've done our time and we've spent our money on property training. both have, you know, a lot of money. And I know we have, you know, we know each other's story well. And it's this idea of when these wonderful people come to us and they're you they're so to you, Sophia, or they say Athena, you know, who should I trust? Where should I go? How do I know? Like it's, it's quite tricky, isn't it? Because things are constantly evolving. Things are constantly changing. You're never going to get it right a hundred percent of the time. But for me, I always say to people, go with your gut and go with the person that you feel aligns with your values the most. Because at least if you align your values, then then and you've done your due diligence, of course, you know, they're a good, good person. They say they do what they say they're going to do. At least then you can't really go wrong as opposed to just looking at Ferrari's Lamborghinis and all of these Cartier watches and thinking this must have lots of money. And actually that isn't the case. And they don't watch and that Lamborghini is not the Lamborghini. just hiding for the day for the video in. Yeah, Apple Watch. No jewelry. Yeah, literally. And I think that's what it's all about. So, and then if we were to say therefore that, okay, let's say that they have picked the right mentor and it's all going really well and they've been looking at all these different strategies that they could do. How would you help them or what advice would you give them? I'm just trying to think to help the listeners as much as I can in terms of then looking at the scope of the whole market and starting to think creatively about how could I take that property on? How could I do that? Like, is it a case of asking lots of questions, speaking to agents? What did you do to start your journey? Obviously I've got the property training because that's important because getting the right mindset, right knowledge is really, really important. So I did my training. I got myself a mentor. You know, as they say, when you want to do something, find someone who I've done what you want to do and follow them, take their advice and let them take you through the process. It's the quickest and shortest way of getting there. than trying to do it yourself. So that is what I did. Training, mentoring, networking, lots and lots of networking, doing lots of viewings. I planned my time that I was doing about 15 viewings a week, showing them to my mentor and making office. So if you don't plan your time or if you don't put in the work, you're not going to succeed. There's no shortcuts you have to put in the work. Regardless, whether it is the training, the mentoring, the networking, the viewings, you have to put in the work, you have to put in the time. Otherwise, it's not going to work. It's as simple as that. So there's no really shortcuts. You've got to follow the process and the process is put in the time. The process is getting the training, the process is getting the mentoring, the process is doing the viewings. And there's no way you will fail if you follow those process. Really, no way. What would you therefore say to listeners then? Because I sometimes have this myself and I would love for people to hear it, not from me, but from somebody else. Where let's say they have a full -time job. So they've got a full -time job, they've got a lot on their plate, a lot of juggling, maybe they have children as well. And they might say things like, how do you find time to do the viewings? How do you find time to do the analysis and all of this? What was your situation Sophia, like when you started out? Were you juggling a lot of things, which clearly you yeah, was juggling a lot of things, a lot of things, backing forth to hospitals, looking after 159 accountancy clients and so forth. But as they say, if you want to do something, you find the time. If you don't want to do it, you find excuses. Everyone, we all have the same 24 hours in a day. How you prioritize that 24 hours will determine how important. The thing you want to do is to you. So if it's not important enough, you find you'd be like, I do it tomorrow. You sit there and you watch TV, you know, or I do it tomorrow. You get on your phone and just scroll on social media and waste time. But if it's really, really, really important to you, nothing else comes first. You will put in the absolute maximum time that you have into it. I was getting up an hour earlier in the morning and I going through right moves, zooplane, and so forth to analyse the properties that I want to do viewings on. As soon as the agents, and then I'm contacting agents about arranging viewings for the evening when I finish work. So during the day I was doing my accountancy, I've already arranged for five viewings after work, going to do those viewings, and then putting office onto them. So getting up an hour earlier, going to bed an hour later, and just using that extra time to turn over every single day on finding deals, finding deals, finding deals. I could have easily said, you know what, I'm tired. I'm just going to stay in bed for another hour. I'll do it tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes. If you want to do something, you do it straight away because tomorrow never comes. It's all down to how important it is to you. As I said, when my friend died and their children and so forth. and I really would have loved to have bought that house to keep it in there. That drive made me realise that one, time is short, and two, if you want to do something, you just do it. And I want to be in a position to be able to help my family and friends in the future when the time comes. Yeah, life is so short, isn't it? Definitely. Really, really short. And what would you say therefore, like, what is your plans for the future? Like, what is next for Sophia Botchway and your networking events and how you want to really impact the industry and encourage people as One of the things that that's not actually annoying me, but one of the things that I think is definitely needed or change in the property industry is that it's very, very male dominated, is very male heavy. And that's why I love Gelson property and what you're doing, Athena, know, trying to bring them all a little bit. There's just so many of them, even my network. And that's one reason why I'm looking forward to having you to come and speak. and my network, I struggled to get a balance of having female speakers. I struggled to get a balance of female mentors in the property industry. If you look at the whole different strategies or you look at events happening, it's always all men on the stage, you know, and it's just not, it's not really acceptable really. So I think we need We need more female. We need to break the mold a little bit. So my future plan is one, grow my networking event, my property networking event that I do, carry on training more people, get a balance of female speakers to my network. I mean, for the 12 months that I've had, the 11 months I've had in network so far, I've only managed to have four female speakers. And that was at a push. And what, may I ask, why is that? Do you approach the females and are they less receptive to the idea? There's just not many out there. approach the ones I've had and I've managed to approach a couple more hopefully for next year as well. There's just not many, it's merely men. And also I had to approach them, they didn't approach me. Whereas the male speakers, as soon as they found out that I'm the host of this Oxford networking event, they were emailing me, texting me, direct messaging me, can I come and speak at your event? Can I come and speak at your event? I've got a waiting list of them at the moment, you know, but I don't want to be having a male speaker every single month. I want a reflection of the females I have in the audience. If they have just male every single month, they'll think, I can't do this. And I know they can. I know they can. So my future. I have, sorry to interrupt you there Sophia, but on this podcast, but just based on what you just said, you know, I have so many incredible women come and tell their story on this podcast and talk about the amazing things that they do. And I'm going to be, I can't talk about it, but there are some exciting things happening going forward this year where I'm hoping, I'm hopefully going to be encouraging more female voices. within the industry and really, really pushing that forward. And I hope, I'll talk to you off the podcast, but I'm hoping that you will also come with me on this journey as well, because you'd be somebody fantastic for it. yeah, it's, I love that you've said this actually, I love it, because you are such a great representation to lead these women forward. Your knowledge is so powerful, you've walked it, you can relate to so many people who, have struggled with time because of your family situation. And I just think you do it with such good integrity and purpose. you've got your one year, is it coming up your one year? month, so August the 8th, it's my one year anniversary of my property networking and we hold it at the most beautiful standing location, the Oxfordshire Golf and Spa Hotel and very picturesque of the Oxfordshire countryside. So yes, the second Thursday of each month. Okay, ladies, gentlemen, if you're listening to this, 8th of August, second Thursday, did you say? Second Thursday. of each month, so the next one is the 8th of August, it's our one year anniversary. There'll be Prosecco, there'll be food, there'll be amazing speakers and a little party going on, balloon, poppies, cake, register and come along. Love it. Okay. Hopefully so many people do go along and Oxford's so great. It's literally right in the, like, it's kind of right in the middle ish. So people, yeah, so people can get to it. Absolutely fab. And then Sophia in true sort of podcast style then, if you were to think back to everything of your journey and all the bits that you've done, do you have a property disaster or property mishap that have had that you would like to share with our listeners. Yeah, before I actually got myself properly trained into the property industry, I never knew about no money done property investing at all because I didn't have no knowledge. I thought you have to buy everything with your own money. So I save and save and save and save. And I bought two properties in North East in a little place in the North East for 30,000 pounds each. Needless to say The one is three and a half, four hours away from me. So I have no control over it. And the tenants were so bad, one of them leaving, they the boiler with them. Jesus. So something I literally will never do again is really important to invest in your own area. Which is what my mentor says, my own property mentor. Invest in your own area, invest on your doorstep where you know the market, you know the good and the bad areas, you know where to avoid and you know the kind of people who are there. But when you're three, four hours away, it's hard to have that control and have that knowledge. So yeah, don't do that. hilarious they took the boiler Yeah, to the boiler. And another one took all the floorboards as well and the carpet and the metalwork. Wow, my goodness, have you still got these two properties? got rid of him. got rid of them? Did you sell them for a profit? Yeah, actually I did in a way. Just not much over the period of time that I had him, not much at all. But now I invest right on my doorstep where yes, it's expensive, but the returns are also a lot better. Yeah, of course, and less stress, which is worth its weight in gold. I go past some of them more or less every day. love to see a house that is £30 ,000 I want to know what that house looks like! It's just a normal terrorist house, believe it or not. That's why for a this is a bargain. But it's a bargain for a reason. What was the rental on that? On a 30 ,000? 400 a month, my goodness. And did the tenant pay or was he just like, I'm not paying and I'll take the boiler? no, Universal Credit was paying. Universal Credit was paying, but yeah, they were not good at all. You spend more on renovating every time, every few months, something is gone and they don't know what's happening to it, but obviously they're just selling them. my goodness. Well, there we have it. Infest on your doorstep. Yeah, definitely invest in your doorstep. I love that. And Sophia, if people wanted to get in contact with you to find out about your event coming up, to just have a conversation with you about No Money Down or to hear more about your actual mentoring and training that you offer as well, where is the best place for people to find I'm on all the social media platforms. My property company is actually called Sophia Lambert Homes. And Sophia Lambert Homes is on Facebook, it's on Instagram and it's on LinkedIn as well. And you can find me Sophia Botchway as well on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Yeah, I'm there. It's hard not to find me. Apparently I'm there too. I'm on socials too much. People always say to me, I saw you my social, the first thing that come up is your face. But you know what, I get that too, all the time. People are like, yes, I saw that yesterday. And I'm like, yeah, great. And then, absolutely, absolutely. My biggest piece of advice I would give based on that is tell everybody what you do. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. 100 % agree with that. Tell everybody what you do. even six months later, seven months later, a year later, someone like, oh, I remember so and so that I met, you know, because their auntie or their uncle or whoever mentions, oh, I need to sell my house or I'm having a problem with my tenants. Oh, I know I met this lady, you know, that I was speaking to at the bus stop for on holiday. And yeah, that's what they do. So tell everybody what you do. I love that. That's such a great way to like finish the pod. And if you want to get in contact with myself, as always, we are girls in property on Instagram. are, I'm Athena Dobson underscore official as my personal one. And if you want to find us online, it's www .girlsandproperty .co .uk or girlsandproperty .pod. And then don't forget, we've got the community group as well. We literally just had Rebecca Barr coming on and did a session. for the Girls and Prosperity meeting about two days ago when we recorded this episode. And she talked all about like money mindset, but what that actually meant for people and how growing up affected then how they now see money and whether or not they deserve to have money. And what that then does is impacts them as people taking them forward in businesses. And the conversations that were happening within the community were incredible. if I'm honest with you, I wasn't expecting. the type of conversation that we ended up having to be had. It was so fantastic. And what I really realised in the moment was the idea of why the community was built. It's great to talk about property and I love property, but it's like, yeah, but let's actually talk about how we can take ourselves forward as like people to develop ourselves to then make our businesses grow. We first of all, got to look within to look and have that holistic view. And so the community is so powerful. We've got over 50 women now within the space of like two months, two and a bit months. And it's really building out. So I'm so excited for where it's going to go. And of course, we've got the Girls and Property Gala at the end of the year as well. wait to come to that. missed it last year because I think my son was in hospital for surgery, so I couldn't make it. So this year, getting my gown ready, getting my hair done, I can't wait. I know and that's what this is all about as well. It's all about this idea of as entrepreneurs, I always say, you know, we don't get to have the Christmas party or it's a party for one and it's like, let's get dressed up. When do we ever get to get dressed up? Let's get dressed up. Let's go. Let's have fun. Let's have a dance. Let's network. Let's meet other people and let's just be strong women in property and business. That's what, that's what I can't wait for. So yay. Thank you. Sophia, thank you so much for coming on today. It has been amazing. I hope the listeners, I hope you've taken something absolutely fab away from this. Go and check out Sophia. She's doing amazing things and I can't wait to see you soon and speak at your event. And thank you for having me on board, Athena. I look forward to having you come to my network and speak and share your amazing knowledge with all the females and male on my network. love it. thank you so much. Enjoy your Monday guys. Have a great one. Bye. Bye.