Two Years in the Making: Heather Littleton’s Journey to Property Success Through Mindset, Motivation, and Small Wins

In this episode, host Athena Dobson sits down with Heather Littleton, an inspiring entrepreneur who made the leap, only two years ago, from hairdressing to property investing—and turned into an “accidental entrepreneur” along the way! Heather shares her journey from the early days in the industry to the valuable lessons she’s picked up around networking, tackling fears, and staying focused on her "why" in business. With plenty of relatable and insightful stories, Heather offers a refreshingly real take on the highs and lows of building a property business, especially as a woman.

Together, Athena and Heather explore the essential role of mindset in pushing through challenges, balancing a full-time job with business ventures, and why it’s so important to celebrate the small wins that add up along the way. They also delve deep into the realities of social media as well as navigating through burnout, and the dangers attached to that. This episode is packed with practical advice and genuine insights about staying authentic, building sustainable success, and creating a community that lifts you up. So get ready to be inspired—Heather’s journey is proof that success is for everyone, no matter where you start. 

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Transcript

0:02

Hello everyone, good morning and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So we have something a little bit different for you today, which I'm super, super excited about because you know me, I always like to mix things up and make the podcast a little bit sort of different. So today I have somebody very special on the podcast and I'm very excited to say it is her first podcast that she is ever doing, which is super, super exciting. We started our journey at a similar time together. And what I wanted to show you all is somebody who, like me, has not been in the industry for a heap amount of time, but has achieved so much. And I want today to really inspire you, the listener, to think to yourself that you can do it too. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce you to Heather Littleton. Hey, Heather. Hello, how are you? Good. Yes, yes, I am. I'm good. Thank you. I love it. Do you know what's so interesting is I remember when we first sort of met, which was at a particular training academy. And what was so interesting was the fact that you, you sort of, you have this outgoing personality, but I know that you are also quite a shy person at the same time. And yet you've gone on to do so many things and even hosting your own network and everything. And I've just seen you sort of go into your own spotlight, which I love. And I think it would be so encouraging for other listeners. who maybe have a similar personality to think that they can do it too. So I'm so happy to get you on today to sort of show everybody that. Absolutely, I describe myself as an introverted extrovert. I think you summarized myself quite well there. I am outgoing and I do sort of put myself in positions where, you know, that makes me scared, but equally, I know that's the way that I've grown over the years. And yeah, I'm sure we're gonna dive into that a little bit more soon. Absolutely. So for those who don't know you on the podcast who are listening, could you please start by introducing yourself, telling everyone a bit about your background, where you are now and some interesting things about you. Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Heather Littleton. I am based in the Midlands, Northamptonshire, Milton Keynes sort of area. And I am an accidental entrepreneur, you could say. So my background has been hairdressing. I've done that since the age of 14. I've had a Saturday job and kind of worked up in salons. And I got to a point where I didn't want to, I didn't really know what to do next. I was salon manager. and it was kind of like open my own shop or go into teaching and I didn't want to open my own shop. I didn't want to do business. So that's really interesting. I then decided to go down the teaching route. Never quite did it because I decided to have a child. So I've got a five year old daughter as well. And in that time, on maternity leave, my husband was made redundant. And in that moment we had a choice to make and that was. Do we do what he was already doing for ourselves or does he go find another job? And so we did the first thing. We set up our own business and accidentally become business owners and kind of ever since have been working for ourselves, building up that business. And then through networking, which by the way, took me a very long time to start doing, took me two years to go to my first networking event because as you already touched on, I am quite a shy introverted person and that's... Am I allowed to swear? don't know. That shit is scary. For somebody who's not done it before, like it totally is quite daunting. So I attended my first networking event and did a few of those. And then eventually met somebody who introduced themselves to me as a property investor. And then it blew my mind. So I went down the rabbit hole and two and a half years later, I have now been working in the property space alongside my other business. I've got a couple of rent to service accommodations. I've got properties that I've secured on lease options, so creative strategies of acquiring property and you know, done a refurb here and there. So that is me in a nutshell. and now I run my own networking event as well. like network introvert to network host, who would have thought. Who would have thought and how funny is that that it took you a year to actually go and network to begin with. Excuse me, I'm so sorry. Two years, it took you two years to go and actually network and then you ended up running your own one. Yes. And that kind of goes back to the thing that I commented on earlier about pushing myself out of my comfort zone and doing things that make me a bit scared. I run the networking event first and foremost because it's scared like the daylights out of me. And if I ran my own networking event, it would force me to, to, you know, not be scared of those sorts of things anymore. And it was a platform for me to help others as well. So it was kind of killed two birds with one stone. And yeah, now I'm hosting events with 60 odd people, 40 odd people, different numbers each month. And that's that. Amazing. And this is what I really want to inspire listeners with because I speak to a lot of women and men in the property industry and they're quite fearful about going to networking. I don't know what your advice actually, Heather, would be to this, which I'm going to ask you now actually before we carry on with the podcast, which is a lot of people will say, well, I'm new to property. I don't even know what I would talk about. I don't even know what I would say. Who wants to listen to me? What would your advice be for somebody not sure whether they want to go networking, why they should do it? So first of all, I'm still that person. If I go to a new networking event, I still don't know what I'm gonna talk about. Like, yes, I've done some property stuff, but I'm not some real high up person. So I still have those thoughts and feelings and anxieties, I guess you could say. But I think some advice I would give is if you can go with somebody or you know somebody who's going to be there, then that sort of event is definitely going to be beneficial to you. If you know someone. if you already know that person is going to be there, cool. Because then you can kind of gravitate towards them. And what we don't want to do is hang out with that one person all evening and then not network because that sort of defeats the point. But it does give you that little bit of a security blanket, I guess you could say. Or obviously, if you're taking somebody with you who is that security blanket, whether it be a friend or a partner or otherwise. So that would be one thing. And also like don't put yourself under that kind of pressure of what should I tell people? Like if you are new to property or any business for that matter, say that. Like people don't mind, people aren't going to judge you. And I find the best sort of networking is actually being the listener. So just, you know, you see that huddle of people, they're chatting away and you just kind of, you listen and you just like add little bits in and that feels quite comfortable and can really ease you into the sort of the process of networking and. takes the pressure of you having to do the elevator pitch. I've never done an elevator pitch, it takes that away. I love that. That is so beautifully worded. Absolutely. And also what I would say to others who maybe are a bit more seasoned networking or even just a bit more comfortable. I was at a networking event recently and I could see this girl at the side wanting to almost come in. We were like a group of, I don't know, like four just chatting and she was just on her own at the side. Just, she wanted to come in but she wasn't quite sure how to do it. Like if you see somebody like that, just take your arm out or like a wing almost. Yeah, absolutely. on, come into the conversation, which is what I did. And as soon as we got her in, she was absolutely fine. So if you do see somebody like that, also reach out to them and try and encourage them in from that perspective. it all together. I don't know, maybe I'm the wrong kind of networker, but I don't always talk business. Like I will happily ask you what dog you've got and what are the things that you enjoy outside of work because I think relationships are better built on those sorts of foundations rather than just how many deals have you done? Like what's your numbers? such an excellent point. Do you know what's really funny? I said this to somebody the other day because I'd, I'd done quite a lot of speaking events, in a very short space of time. And so I was getting really bored of repeating myself and having the same conversation over and over again. And when they tried to talk to me about property, I remember saying to them, can we talk about something that isn't like, is unrelated to property? And they were really taken aback by that, but I was just so bored of it. So I was like, look, Who loves to travel? Can we talk about travel? Can we talk about dogs? Can we talk about anything? And actually what was really interesting is when we got on the subject to travel, they were like, I didn't know that you did that. And then that conversation then came about. And I always say we are so much more than just business owners, property investors. We also have children. We also have lives. We also have so many other things that interest us. It's like, well, can we actually learn about those things as well? Absolutely, and you will build better relationships on those because you know as the saying goes the whole no like and trust thing if you do know somebody quite deeply in that sort of respect then you're just going to be able to trust them more and do more business together so and even if you don't do business with them you know there's referrals and things like that so it all helps you know paints a good picture around you It does, it does, absolutely. And then Heather, what are you celebrating at this moment in time? So what am I celebrating is probably actually gaining some clarity about what it is that I want to do, how I want to take my property business and yeah, getting really clear and focused on that because I find you might relate to this and I'm definitely sure there's people that will be listening that will relate to this is you kind of start out in this thing, this thing called property. Property is very loose term. Property can be building skyscrapers in London, or it could be doing a rent to rent in Kettering. Like it could be anything. And I didn't have much clarity starting out. I thought it was a necessity for cashflow. And then I sort of switched and was like, is that really what I want? Yeah, do I like hospitals? All these things. And so yeah, gaining clarity is the thing that I am celebrating. love that. I love that. what do you, do you want to say what you think your clarity is or? yeah, absolutely. So as I just touched on, I originally thought I was doing this for a cash flow from the cash flow perspective and don't get me wrong, that's great. But I soon realized that my other business is my cash flow business and that's cool. So what I've become really clear on is what excites me in property. And it's actually the thing that always excited me since I was sort of a small girl. And that is the transformation process that is beautiful buildings, character buildings, whether they're a Victorian, know, terraced property, you know, down a nice avenue, or whether it's a more sort of like cottage-y type place, it is those transformations and turning that into like this beautiful home that somebody can enjoy and bringing the character back to life. No disrespect to anybody, but I am so fed up of grey. Bring back more warmth. I just I love character buildings. I always have done. And so I want to bring more of them back to life, basically. So that helps me in my my long term sort of goal of capital appreciation and bigger chunks of money. But also that thing that does excite me. And yeah, even like I did a refurb earlier in the year and that property is running as an SA. But the parts that excited me were seeing the bathroom ripped out and it looking really nice again. And then the furnishing part, great. But now I'm like, okay, next. Yeah, like it's great. There's a cash flowing house. Brilliant. And obviously I'm super grateful for that. But yeah, what actually excites me is, is seeing that transformation. So I've got really clear on that. And and hone in. I love that. And that's such, there's a really beautiful thing to celebrate actually. And something that's actually quite difficult to, it doesn't come, I don't know about you, but because we started at a similar time, I remember us sitting in that classroom together next to each other, these like bright eyed bushy tailed kind of like, yay, let's learn. And it's very overwhelming, isn't it? When, when, when you were starting out, because I don't know about you Heather, but I felt like all this information was just being chucked at me. And you, you, it's quite overwhelming. You, you, you know, in your heart that you want to do what you think is the term property. As you said, that could be anything. And you know, you want to be your own business woman, man, you know that, but then it's like, well, how do I get there? And you try, I think what's important to say is you've always got to do trial and error within this industry. I don't know many people who just sort of landed and gone, yep, I'm done. No, absolutely. And for a lot of people, you know, you're not necessarily starting this business with absolutely bucket loads of cash or anything like that. you know, kind of buying a £800,000 beautiful character property isn't necessarily where you're going to be starting. And yeah, I haven't done that one yet, but I'm working towards it. So, you know, you do sort of think maybe there's other things to do first. And like you said, when you're... attending property trainings or webinars or reading books or listening to podcasts like this. There's so many different ideas and they're all really great ideas, but are they the right idea for you? And I do think there is, like you said, a case of trial and error, like you're not going to get it right the first time. And just to say that I'm not excited about my essays doesn't mean that I haven't got it right. They're, you know, they're doing what they need to do and that's brilliant. And it is bringing in, you know, that sort of cash flow that is building up. And that's, that's fantastic. But actually, yeah, what's going to really make me buzz. And I think because this is the business that I'm building up alongside my main source of income, it's got to excite me. you know what? I don't know about you Heather but this is what I think is the secret because in property and in business both of them you have to, in order to be, in order to grow it and to get to where you want to be you need to be consistent with it and you need to keep going and I don't know about you but I've seen a lot of people who were so consistent at the start and then they just fell off. They literally just fell off and just went this isn't for me and I think the reason they fell off is because what they were doing didn't light them up inside. Yeah, that's... what the secret is. You have to do things that are aligned. I always talk about this, that are aligned with your personal values and what your personal objectives are. So now I stand on stage and I say, yes, I'm a property investor, but I'm a lifestyle investor. Like, what do I want in my life? You know, and how do I want to live? Which is why I gave back the service accommodation units, which I've spoken about because they no longer aligned with who I am and they no longer let me up inside. As shocking as it is, it doesn't excite me to be called out at 9pm on a Sunday to go and fix things. Shocking. You mean to say that doesn't like fill you with excitement on a Sunday evening? No? It fills me with dread every time. Do you know it filled me with dread every time my phone rang I started to have anxiety and I was like this is not healthy. Yes it's cash but it's not worth my soul you know and I thought no this isn't for me and so I love the fact you're celebrating that I'm so pleased for you that you've got clarity and I'm so happy for you because I think that's such a peaceful way to live as well when you have clarity. So yeah, fantastic celebration. I love that. What am I celebrating? my goodness. I love it. I always ask you, don't forget to come on with what you're celebrating and I forget about me. What am I celebrating? my God, there's so much happening at the moment. So last week I celebrated the fact that I went into schools to speak to 15 to 18 year olds, which was brilliant by the way. Yeah, I went and spoke to these young women who are bloody brilliant by the way. They're so inspiring. and I really want to get into school so I celebrated that last week. I'll tell you more about that because that was brilliant. And in fact I'm going to do a post about that because I don't even know what I was expecting but these young minds were so inquisitive and had so many ideas and wanted to learn and I specifically did it for young women. I decided just to do it for the girls and there were 40 of them in this room all staring at me and I was like my god what do I do? What do I say? The most like judgmental age as well. It's like, and you know, it's written all over their face. They can't hide their facial expressions. So if you said something that they disagreed with, they had like this weird scrunched up face. And do know what? In the end, I just called it out. I was like, okay, you're pulling a face. Why are you pulling a face? Like, what's your opinion on this? And then they told me their opinion. And I was like, fantastic. Let's have a conversation about that. And I think that it should be encouraged to... speak and to think well what is your opinion? So I celebrated that so that was amazing. I've got some really cool, do know there was a really cool thing that happened to me that I can't actually announce until January, they were like you can't announce this till January and I was like that feels like forever away so I've got a really cool thing there which will be announced. I've of course got the gala coming up which is amazing at Christmas and and to be I'll tell you what I'm celebrating because this is in line with yourself actually I think in terms of what you've got going on as well. I have now been hiring staff For the business. Yeah, so not full-time In that sort of capacity because my business is still quite small But I I'm as people know Know me listening to the podcast. I need help. I need extra hands I just can't do it on my own and now the business is in a place where I can afford to contractually hire people. So I now have a video editor. I now have somebody that helps me with my marketing and I now have a specific email marketer as well. And what I thought was when I was hiring people, I thought one, what don't I like? What don't I think I'm that good at? And what do I want to delegate that I really just don't wanna do? like email marketing, all of those are like such major ones that take up so much time. does. so much time and I know I can do it better but I don't have the capacity or time to do it better so therefore I thought I'm gonna have to invest some money in this business and myself to take it even further. So hiring people is what I'd like to celebrate today because obviously you've hired people in your business too. Yeah, that's right. And honestly, congratulations, because trust me, I know how tricky that is, how hard, emotionally, anxiety, all of those things. Because you're suddenly responsible for somebody else's bread and butter. And so for the listeners who don't know my other business, I've got a company in garage equipment, completely different. I co-run that with my husband. And it has just been us for a number of years. has actually been going five years. last month, not last month, last week, five years it's been going now. And we hired our first two people this year. So that included a sales rep and an engineer. And they are both been super valuable hires and they're fantastic people that are working with us now. And, you know, they've really sort of created this fantastic team together. You know, similar to you is we're at capacity. couldn't squeeze another job in. And also there is always that risk of putting all of your eggs in one basket. Like if something happened to either of us, it wasn't gonna continue. You the business couldn't continue. So actually getting people within the business and growing that has been absolutely detrimental. But it has been something that, I don't know, it's just kind of suddenly fell into place. Like suddenly feels right. I can't quite explain it. Maybe because I'm like that accidental entrepreneur, was never, you know, we didn't set the business up kind of with a strong business plan and went to the bank with our folders and like, this is the plan sort of thing. We just set a business up, registered on company's house, got a bank, bought a van and off we went, you know, and over the years we've built up a big customer base and got a really good support there. But like hiring people, like... I can afford them, I don't know. I do know that now just for clarification. when it was, we've thought about it for a number of years and that's always the question, can we afford them? How do you hire somebody? How do you make sure they're happy? How do you make them stay? There's all these thoughts that come into it and we've just done it. I guess that of comes back to the whole jumping with two feet and just kind of going for it. And we just decided we're gonna hire. you know, this person and then a couple of months later, like, right, we're going to hire the engineer now. And yeah, it's now we're like, right, when's the next hire coming? But it's, yeah, yeah. And thing is, because our first hire is a sales rep, like naturally the business is just snowballing. Like we've got more sales. more customers coming on. We're selling a lot more equipment now in the garage equipment that we sell. So this is for like MOT stations. So all of like the lifts that your car will go on and things like that is that kind of equipment. If it's in an MOT bay, we fit it basically. So yeah, we're selling more equipment. We're taking on new customers for service work and calibration and it's just snowballing. Yeah, we'll probably be hiring again early next year, I expect, at this rate. And that's what business is all about. And it's about taking chances and, you know, just giving it a go and seeing what happens, you know, whatever capacity that is. So it's amazing. It's so incredible. And I guess what's so interesting also is the fact that businesses, I always say to people when they say that they're property investors, I'm like, first and foremost, you are a business owner. anyone who invests in property, I classify them as a business owner. So you already have had your business, your business before and your acumen as it were, whereas other people might not necessarily have that. For example, you come from a business background of having that business of yours with the garage. I come from a corporate background, but yet we both then set up our own new businesses within the property investing and both took our transferable skills forward within that. So. It's really interesting because sometimes I say to people, well, you are a business owner. And they're like, no, I don't have a business. I'm like, but you have properties. So therefore you are a business owner. Yeah, but one thing I would like to... kind of give the listeners the permission is almost like, don't think that you need to come from a business, having a business before or from the corporate background because I do this myself all of the time. I compare myself to the property investor that has worked in banking and finance and I'm like, well, of course they're going to be great. Like they've got finance knowledge. I can barely add up, yeah, I can, but you know what I mean? And you know, or I compare myself to the builder who's always been building things like walls and I don't know, whatever it is they build, you know, and we don't always have to have that transferable skill that you think it might need to be, because that can be quite daunting, I think, for somebody to go, I'm listening to this girl, Heather. and Athena on this podcast and she already had a business and she come from corporate and I'm just me. And I've always been like that, I'm just a barber. That's my background before, I'm just a barber. I cut hair, sits in my chair, next, person sits in my chair, next. And it was quite simple. I did manage a salon and there's other things that come with that. But it was a small salon, it wasn't Tony and Guy or something like that. yeah, I just wanted it to make sure that. The listeners didn't think that they needed XYZ skill necessarily. think that's beautiful that you've said that and thank you for saying that. What I would ask you then is, what do you think that they do need? If they don't need those, what do they need? I think you need a drive for something, whether that be your own financial independence, whether you're building a nest egg for your children, whether you do just want to do something that excites you. Maybe you're just so bored in your day-to-day job and life or whatever it may be, and you just want, you just know that this thing, whether it's property or anything else, maybe it's a bakery or something, but you've got this drive and desire to do something. push you forward because like it does get really hard. I cry on a regular basis about the stresses of work and business and the strain it puts on family as well. You know, like we can be like passing ships in the night at times and the stresses that comes with work can cause frustrations within a relationship or family or friendships and things like that. Yeah, you've just got to have something that's pushing you forward. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. You got to have that again, that fire in you and your why people talk about the why all the time. And I don't know about you Heather, but my why constantly changes. You know, like literally I could have, I could have my why one year and then the next year I'm like, that's not my why. My why is actually this. And I think that's okay. Yeah. that's okay. Because I've done the same. I've, like you said, with like the lots of impressions that you get from other people and ideas and inspirations, like that can, that can pivot you a little bit. And as a result, your why might change as well. But I do think that's okay. And as somebody like my why has changed multiple times, that's probably why part of my strategy has changed as well. But I'm sort of okay with that now and I think other people should be too because life is an ever evolving thing and if we stay with like you know once upon a time our why was just be able to walk to go get the biscuit off of the counter right when we were toddlers or something you know why is it constantly changing I mean I'd still happily go get the biscuit all the time, all the time of course. So if we were to think about this then, because the reason I really love the fact I've got you on this podcast Heather is because I want to show the listeners that yes I get people on who have got seven, eight, nine, ten years experience, whatever, but sometimes I can feel quite unachievable because let's face it, the market's different and when they started to get into property, it was a different world and pre-COVID and all these things. So what I really want to get from our conversation is when we were both sat there at that table together on that three-day course, learning about all these different strategies, what do you think then when you walked out of that door for you, because we left at the same time, we both went on our own journeys, but always seemed to come back and gravitate towards each other, what do you think that... you thought to yourself, right, this is my next move. This is what I've got to do to take me from where I am stood here coming out of this course to where I want to be. What was like your first moves or your first thought process that you had to do? And what do you think is like the, what am I trying to say? The kind of the right ingredients then to now get you to being sat here doing the podcast with me today. What do you think has been that journey for you? I mean, that's a tough one, isn't it? Because there's so many things. A lot of it has been mindset for me. I keep saying it, you know, jumping in with two feet, putting myself in positions that I'm scared of and figuring it out, basically, cry later sort of thing. So, yeah, a lot of it has been mindset because you do come away from a lot of courses being like blown away and they're amazing because you learn all of this thing. all these things and you realize it's all possible. But to then come away and go home where either it's just quiet, you've got nothing going on at home, or you've got a crazy household, children, dogs, whatever, that is me. then lots of other things. It can be really easy to just go back to your normal life and go, that was cool. Now I've got to carry on with life. And so I think the mindset around feeling confident of doing the next thing and that next thing might be the set up your business, might be leafleting or whatever, you know, whatever thing that is that you've maybe learned on a course or something. But yeah, mindset has been a massive part of trying to help give myself the confidence, knowing that I can achieve things, teaching myself that I can achieve things and kind of reflecting on the successes. And you know, in two and a half years, people have done way more than I have. Like there's no doubt, absolutely no doubt that people have done way more, got more properties, maybe raised more finance, done more deals, that sort of thing. But trying not to compare on those things. I don't know if I've just gone on a massive tangent. No, it's, it's, but, you know what, even if you did go on a, on a tangent, which you didn't, it's because it is a roller coaster. It is so, my mindset, I always talk about mindset. know, I do like mindsets really, yeah. Mindset's really, really key because it's so tricky. And I think that what happens is, is so what I hear a lot of people say is that they go on these courses and then they don't really do anything with them because you said it beautifully. You go back to your reality of what your life looks like, whatever capacity that is. and you almost don't know how to almost take that first step because you've got a full-time job. For example, a lot of people that I mentor have got full-time jobs and they're like, the thing I struggle with most is I want to leave my full-time job, I'm unhappy, but how do I do everything else that needs doing such as having to do my job, having to run the household because I have kids, and then on top of that, trying to start this own business thing. and they feel like it's almost impossible or completely overwhelming and so they therefore don't start. Can you kind of relate to that? No, no, no, I meant on men and women. Yeah, both. I was just going to ask, do you find that with the women that you mentor, that actually the ones who might be in relationships might then struggle to put their needs and their desires first in terms of growing their business because, you know, the husband maybe is the breadwinner in the family or something like that. because that is something that... it's been a real mixture actually. Sometimes I have it that the female is the breadwinner, which I love. And I'm like, I'm like, so she feels the pressure, but, but they're unhappy, they're unhappy in what they're doing. And so therefore they want to leave that, but because they are the breadwinner, they're, so busy in their job and they've got the children as well. Yes, of course the, because she's the breadwinner, the partner maybe does a bit more. but at the same time it's quite challenging. I also have single moms as well that I mentor where they then have, they have to take on all of it all together. And also guys, I mentor guys in similar boats where they then have that. it's, I don't know about you, because obviously with your networking, do people ever say to you like, don't have enough time, know, money, knowledge? Time is the biggest one, isn't it? between every single person ever, I think. So how did you do it then? Because when you started, yeah, but it's important to say because when you started, I remember you had your business, you had your garage business and you've got your daughter and the dogs. Yeah. What did you do? So I was in a position where I appreciate not everybody can be in. So I wanted to just put that in place, put that out there for context. Obviously, I already had the business that was growing with my husband. And I like at that point, it was just us in the business and I was doing kind of the financial sort of stuff. bookkeeping, the admin, all of those sort of like just typical things that isn't working on Spanner's basically. And I decided to outsource that, to allow me time to do this. And I got a freelancer in who took on all of that work. So I didn't employ somebody straight away full time, but I did get a freelancer, which yeah, freed me up a load of time to be able to do property, go on the view ins. you know, research and analyse deals and all of that fun stuff. My daughter was in preschool at the time, nursery, one of the two, I think they're the same thing. And she was there four days a week. So that gave me the time obviously while she was there. And then, you know, as for the dogs, can walk them whenever. Yeah, so yeah, I managed to make that time as a result, but I appreciate that a lot of people are in full time jobs. and you know, or full-time parent or something like that. So trying to look at your diary and kind of work out one, when you feel alive, because like for me, three, four in the afternoon, I'm pretty dead to the world. I'm worn out. I seem to have a bit of a dip in my day and I can't do much then. So kind of looking at the times in your diary where you have got the energy and you can free up time, whether it be, you know, Maybe you've got children, maybe it's childcare of some description, a club or grandparents or friends or babysitter or similar. Or obviously around work. So I appreciate people do like nine to fives or whatever that may be. So going, right, what time can I slot in? Is it getting up an hour earlier? it, you know, staying up an hour later? Is it working on my lunch break? But just trying to find those little snippets of time and being okay that it's not going to happen as quickly. Like, you know, if you're, if... For some people, their desire is to get out of their job within six months and they have got the fire, the sheer passion and they will make it happen. I know people that have made that happen. It's totally possible. It's not something that I had myself. I wasn't like, right, yeah, let's go crazy sort of thing. 10 essays by the end of November or whatever. But some people will, but it's also okay if you don't want to be that person. Yeah, that's so interesting and being on your own journey almost. I really like what you said there, which was a really valid point that you made, which is be okay that you will get there. You might just not get there as quickly as someone else who is able to give all of their time. You might be able to give 60 % of your time. So you'll go at 60 % of the race, whereas they can go at hundred. And I think that's so important. But what I will say is this, and I've watched it too many times now, I really have. Here's my advice that I would give. A lot of people, and I talk about this a lot, right? People think that what they see on social media is all true and this person is this incredible hulk and they're really bossing life and look at them go. I cannot tell you how fascinating this year has been where I have gone and spoken at events, I have gone and... gone to networking and we've ended up in the bar at 2 a.m. when they've had a couple of drinks and suddenly they start opening up to me and I'm like, okay, it's not as rosy as it maybe appears. And it really makes me question things because I'm like, I thought this and I thought this and that isn't the case at all. And what I would say is, don't, don't. Don't ever get so consumed by what other people are doing. Like honestly, because you just don't know what's actually happening. Just do you, use social media in the right way to do whatever you need to do. If it's attracting investors, do that. If it's just because you want to for showcasing, do that. But you know, really just hone in on how you want to do it, I would say. And the other thing is, is my point is you'll see people who are supercharging their business and they're going a million miles an hour. Trust me, I've been there. I've done it, you've seen me go a million miles an hour, you naturally have to come to a halt because you get burnt out and you exhaust yourself. Like there's only so much your body can physically take for you to then go, I can't do this anymore. So the advice I now actually give to people is just go slow and steady. Because if you go slow and steady but at a consistent pace, you actually take over the other person who is going really fast. And obviously there's a whole tortoise in the hair analogy. The hair like rushes to the end and the tortoise is there in the background just going, I see you, I'm coming, I'm coming. And then they end up taking over and winning the race. And so that's okay. There is no get rich quick scheme. I'm sorry to burst your bubble. There is no, know, let's do this really quickly. It's like, no, consistency does pay off and go at your own pace. I just think it's a more sustainable, ethical, healthier approach to take. and to have fun along the way. Heather, did you ever listen to the podcast I did, which was cultivating a growth mindset, which I break down crying on the podcast. So it's a solo episode I did. It was just me. was having a really, really bad day. Somebody had canceled the podcast, so therefore I did a solo episode. And I was talking about the fact that I was working so hard, which I was. I was in a deficit at that point in terms of my energy levels, but I stayed consistent Monday morning. I got on, I did a podcast, but I talked about the fact that I was no longer enjoying the journey that I was on. And it made me so sad because of me saying it, the reality was actually coming out, which is what brought tears to my eyes of going, I'm working so hard, but I'm literally, I'm sleepwalking through this whole experience. and I'm not even celebrating what I'm achieving. Like I was achieving incredible things and I wasn't even celebrating them. I was just onto the next thing. And that's not healthy. That's not a healthy way to be. Whereas now, okay, I'm going so much slower, but I've given back all my rent to rent. Thank the Lord. I'm now at the gym. I'm not having anxiety when I'm looking at my phone. We spoke before I came on the podcast about the fact that I was meant to be doing one of these HMO conversions and it fell through and it's one of the best things that's actually happened because it's made me realign what is it, what does light me up? What do I want to do? Is it that I want to outsource something to somebody else four hours away or do I actually have the builders, contractors and agents in my area that I want to do on 10 minutes away? And I'm like, actually I want to do one local to home. That is what I want and invest in my area. And so it's all about. aligning ourselves, isn't it? I'm really thinking, what is my journey? How am I sort of going to do it? And I was that person that came from a corporate life and had to do a job whilst also doing a business. And I speak about this way where you, you know, I got home at eight o'clock at night. I would schedule the emails to go out at eight o'clock in the morning to the agents. I'd get all the letters ready. I'd post them on the way to work. You just find ways, don't you? I suppose when you want it, you find ways. Yeah. I don't know what you feel about that. No, so I've got kind of three things that I want to touch on from what you've just said, but the most, no, no, no, absolutely not. But just on the thing that you just said about, you know, we find little ways. I'm going to bring it to fitness. So for me, like, I'm going to be completely honest. I am the unfitest I've ever been. I'm the biggest I've ever been. I'm just not overly happy in my general health and wellbeing. And again, it's the time, I don't have the time for the gym and you know, it's true to an extent. But what I do have time for and what I make time for every single day is to walk my daughter to school. And so what I decided to do was start to run to school or at least run back after I dropped her off. So just getting that little bit in that slow and steady, know, yeah, I'm not doing like a 5k every two days or something, but I am just chipping away like half a mile a mile kind of every few days and that will increase and actually. I have now booked myself a race for next year. I'm doing a 10K, my first 10K. I've not ever done a five case. That's going to be interesting. And I'm now training for that. Thank you. So, but. But you again, throwing yourself two feet in the deep end. Love it. Yeah, yeah, was like, it's done. So, so yeah, so I just wanted to comment on that about just finding little ways to put habits into your life, whether it's, you know, some, was on a retreat recently, and one of the sort of the key bits of advice, I think a lot of people took away was having a ceiling and a floor. And that is, you know, yes, the ceiling might be to do two hours in the gym, but actually, can I just run to school and back, you know, that that's the floor. So set the ceiling, yeah, you want to achieve two hours, but actually, just running half a mile back from school is enough. And it's still working towards your goal. And I loved that and that was brilliant. that, yeah. thing to say actually. Let's create achievable and realistic goals, which is I can't get to the gym for an hour today, but I certainly can run back from dropping my daughter off at school. And therefore I'm, yeah. Yeah, put your trainers on and just run back. mind what it is, you know, it's just that little thing, isn't it? Like everybody can do that. Or similar. Heather. I think that's so important and I can take that away as well. You know, I, you know me, I have one of those personalities which is all or nothing. So it's either an hour in the gym or nothing. And actually if I can just do 20 minutes exercise, that is a win for the day. It doesn't have to feel like a loss that it wasn't an hour and it was only 20 minutes. So actually I'm going to take that away today. So thank you for that. cleaning your teeth, know, things like that. Yes. I'm not a health coach, but there we go world. You have that piece out of me. Yes. The other thing was one about celebrating successes. So that's something that we've not been very good at ourselves. obviously hiring one person is quite a big deal for us hiring two people in the space of two months. huge. And we haven't success, like success that that's really bad English. haven't, we haven't celebrated the success of that yet. And that is something that we've got to make sure that we do. And so by putting those little things in place to make sure that once we hit something that we which that we've achieved, we do celebrate that, you know, whatever that may be, it might just be, you know, a takeaway, or it might be going out to the spa for the day, but making sure those things are in place because that reflection is almost like a driver forward as well. And then the other thing was social media. I've got a complete love hate relationship with social media. I love it because I'll be honest, I've got all of my deals through social media. All three property deals, including my lease option, are as a result of my social media presence and communication and things like that. But I also hate it. And I hate it because it is all consuming for a lot of people, including myself at times. And I have to put like processes in place to make sure that I'm not absorbed by social media and also not comparing myself to others on social media. Because as you touched on, there is so much, you know, rose tinted glasses with social media. presence and like, you know, I had a friend whose life on the internet was absolutely glorious. It is lovely. But actually, you know, behind the scenes of social media, that life was not the one that was portrayed online and was quite different actually. And that's fine. But I like to think myself as quite an authentic person. And I try to put a lot of the realities on social media. But it is quite hard to do because, you know, nobody likes airing their dirty laundry out on socials or, you know, making a fuss or maybe you just don't want the attention. I'm not somebody that's like, I want lots of attention for this. It's it's not me. But yeah, try not to compare with that because it can be really tricky and maybe be. maybe have the mindset of being more of a producer than a consumer. And that's something that I've had to put into practice. And I slip off of that, definitely not perfect, but you know, trying to put more out there as opposed to consume it and then feeling crap for it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I love that. And do know, I've changed my approach recently as well. So I used to be this person where I used to think to myself, I get a lot of direct messages from sort of girls and guys, but mainly girls because of girls and property. And I'd be having a bad day, but I used to think to myself, I'm the face of girls and property. I'm a positive person. I need to always be positive. I always need to be showing to be... having this positive outlook on life and yay, go me. And actually that's how I thought I used to be. So I'd be having a bad day, someone would be telling me that they weren't feeling that great and they're like, how are you? And rather than telling them the truth of how I am, I'd go, yeah, I'm great, all is well, like hope you're okay. Because I thought that's how I was supposed to be. And actually what I've been doing recently is actually telling people when people say to you, how are you? I'm like, do you know today's actually a pretty tough day, this happened. I'm not really feeling it today this happened or quite frankly. I'm already feeling it today. I'm on my period You know simple things simple things and you know the response has been so beautiful with that because I feel that that everyone is able to relate to me more because I think sometimes people think that people like me and you who put on these events and Put ourselves out there that sometimes where this superhuman alien and it's like we're not we're human beings with feelings and We don't we're not always okay And I think that's important to say we don't always have to be okay. People don't always have to be okay. And it's always important to almost recognize that within ourselves and not see it as a weakness to say, actually today, today I'm not feeling it and think, well, what would make you happy? A walk in the sunshine, a run home from dropping your daughter off at school or whatever it may be. Just do what makes you happy and you don't have to be a hundred percent all the time. I think is a real... a real secret that I wish I'd have known over my two years of the journey. And also, do you know what I will say is this, which I thought was, I was so happy with it. So I went to Manchester recently where Paul Stapleton and Danielle Jolie were doing the Manchester Property Social, and I was invited to come and speak on the panel. So I was honoured to do that. And it was Sean Davis, Paul Stapleton and me on the panel speaking. And what I loved was I'm at a stage in my life now, Heather, where I really, really want to cut the bullshit. I really do. And I'm kind of like, can we just have a meaningful conversation here, please? Can we actually just talk real life? And so when I was on the panel, I was really opening up about burnout and what burnout looks like and the reality of having a business and how consuming it can be within that. Cause I've burnt out twice and I'm telling the story of where I was when I burnt out the first time. And there was a guy in the audience who put his hand up and he said, I'm so happy it was a guy, so happy it was a guy. He put his hand up and he said, can I just say thank you so much for sharing that? I nearly didn't come tonight because I'm experiencing burnout at this very moment in time. And the fact that you've just said that has made me feel seen and heard. And I really thank you for that. And that was amazing. And the fact that he was open to say that, I knew he was open to discuss it. So rather than just moving on to the next conversation, we then had a conversation about his situation. And then somebody two behind him, guy two behind him said, I'm also feeling really overwhelmed at the moment. And suddenly this whole conversation turned around, and it was guys, this whole conversation turned around for the guys to say how they felt overwhelmed. Yeah. thought that was so important. And one of the things we, one of the ways we got over that to help him was I said to him, what have you recently done? And he'd done this amazing HMO project and conversion. And I was like, this is incredible. And I asked him a simple question, which was, what did you do to celebrate that? What have you done? And he said to me, I'm going on holiday in like five months time. And I said to him, that's not a celebration. That is not what you're celebrating for your HMO. What have you done? And he's like, well, I haven't done anything. And I'm like, exactly. Exactly. I was like, right, what are you going to do? I was like, what are you going to do? And he's like, right, I think about it. He messaged me the next day. He found me on Instagram. He messaged me and he says, Hey, and he sent me a picture and he says, Hey, just went out for most amazing meal with my partner. Check it out. This is what we did to celebrate. And I was like, yes. I was like, how are you feeling? He's like, I feel so much better. And I was like, exactly. And this is what I want to talk about. I want to talk about the reality of, of burnout, the reality of what it takes. And it is hard, but it's so worth it. And as long as you help people along the way, and we all do this together, I think that it's just such a more meaningful experience and much more meaningful connections rather than how many properties do you have? How much have you raised? How much have you got this? I'm like, I don't give a shit. I really don't care. Who are you as a person? What are your values as a person? Just means so much more, I think. So yeah, I loved talking about that and the fact it was a guy. yeah. yeah, I think sometimes guys, maybe I'm generalizing, but sometimes guys almost struggle to put that out there because there's almost this expectation that, you know, guys, have just got their shit together, you know, like, nothing, nothing worries them, like they're cool. But actually, they also have thoughts and feelings, you know, and exhaustion and all the rest of it. So, yeah. humans. And I'm seeing some fantastic content coming out from some guys at the moment, just keeping it really real as well, which I'm absolutely loving. So yeah, I think let's just make this industry, which is so unregulated, like let's just make it like really healthy, really anti-hustle culture, which I'm here for. I've been a hustler. I've done it. I've been there. I've done the whole 3 a.m. thing. I like my sleep, Heather. Like I like sleep. So do I. Yeah, and the thing is, I think when you hustle as well and you start something new, because I know a lot of people that start in property, myself included, who are starting in this industry, having no experience in this industry. know, rent to rent is quite a typical one to start out with because it's sort of easy entry, quicker cash flow, not too much investment upfront. So it is naturally where people tend to start. And like, there are people that will get it right, absolutely. But there are also people that... take on too much too soon. And suddenly they're managing, I don't know, five to 10 properties and they've got to have a maintenance plan for each one. They've got to have, maybe they're doing SA and they've got guests or maybe they're doing HMO and that's like a whole other kettle of fish. It's not something I'm familiar with myself, but you know, that's, there's all these things and there's compliance and there's rules and all the rest of it. And just general, being a good person. And when you're trying to juggle these things and actually you don't necessarily know what it is that you're doing. because you haven't had that experience yet, maybe you're six months or a year in. And that's okay, by the way, to not have that experience and not to know all those things, because nobody knows everything from the get-go. But if you scale too quickly, suddenly you've got all these properties and all this stuff going on, and you're like, shit, can't actually, I can't manage this, this is too much. And then the cracks start to show and issues start to happen, whether it be, you let customers down through your essays. Maybe it's that you're not quite a compliant HMO anymore. Maybe it's just like the maintenance of your property has gone to nothing and you've got leak and taps and other issues. So these things start to happen. And it goes back to the whole hair and the tortoise, isn't it? If you just build up slowly, you get into a good rhythm and you build the processes and the systems and you record those processes down, then you can just repeat it. Whether that is a HMO refurbing or any of the... things within the property space. So just taking it steady. That's my opinion anyway. just made. Yeah, no, it's an excellent point you just made, which is don't try and grow too quickly. Almost like I'm going to go back to just a really easy analogy of you being a barber. You know, if you've got one person in the chair and you're on your own, you can give that good customer service. You can give attention to detail. If you had six people in chairs and you had to go around six and you only had half an hour to do it, you wouldn't be able to give the level of attention to detail to that one hair. Yeah, literally just buzz cut, done. Sorted. But no, you're absolutely right. Yeah. I mean, if you started out in barbering, for an example, it's quite a simple concept to grasp. You you don't go into being a barber and just can do skin fades, scissor cuts, know, we'll see anything at the minute, mullets, you know, all of these things. You're not just going to go into it and just be able to do all of that. Like if you open up your shop and you're like, right, welcome everybody. I can do you all. And then you have all of those people sit down. shit, that doesn't look so good. where it's obviously you build up over time, you practice and all the rest of it, you build a client base. Then, you know, you've got the process of how to do the wallet, how to do the skin fade as an example. I love that. Do you know, I've just loved this conversation because what I always love about this podcast is I always say it's like as if there were a fly on the wall, we were having cup of tea in the kitchen and people could just listen in and that's what it is. And I love the fact we started our journey at a similar time, you know, and we always gravitate back towards each other again and then catch up and it's like, hey again. Yeah, absolutely. And obviously we did that challenge, we, online. And that was very much like hustle, hustle, like go out and do loads. And I loved it. Don't you, right? It's absolutely fantastic. And it does push you out your comfort zone. But actually like the reality of doing that day in, day out, week in, week out, it's just not the reality of life really. Yeah. God, I remember that challenge. That was like two, that was two years ago. my God. I, yeah, it was definitely, but it was because I was out there putting, letters through people's letter boxes in the absolute pissing rain. I remember I said, I'm not going out today. It's raining. And like, someone was like, no, you got to go out even in the rain. And I was like, this is ridiculous. We did. We did. But again, again, friendly competition, accountability. Yeah, and that's what that was. Yeah, yeah, I think actually accountability, you've just mentioned that. That's one thing I've forgotten to mention throughout all of this is, you know, asking me on like, you the steps of doing things like, I'm gonna be honest, I've had a business mentor for years, different mentors throughout the years, admittedly, but I have had multiple different mentors or guidance or, or accountability. And that has been a massive help as well. You know, somebody just that little step ahead of me. or a bigger step, whatever it may be. But that's been a massive thing. And even that friendly competition between you and I, that was a form of accountability. And like you said, Athena's got it out like, I gotta go. Let's go knock on some doors and get some houses. I love that. And you're so right. I'm so glad you just said that just because I think it's a beautiful way to finish the podcast, which is continuous learning is something that I really advocate for always. I've actually got mentors myself. So I've got two business mentors for completely different reasons that give me different advice about different aspects of the business spectrum. And then I've also now got my sort of my life coach, but in terms of physical fitness as well. And I love that. and it's such a healthy way to be. So it's kind like a nutritional coach, coach, life coach, fitness coach, as it were. And I love having mentors. I love it because I always need to have a sounding board. I need to check things and go, am I right? Am I wrong? What do you think? And I think it's so important to have that. So continuous learning, I'm always going to advocate because you never know everything. You just can't, it's impossible. So Heather, I've loved having you on. Thank you so much for coming on. I hope you enjoyed your first ever podcast. Yes, thank you for having me. It's been great. You've been amazing. And if people want to get in touch with you and find you, where can they do so? So my main platform is Facebook. I am Heather Littleton. You will find me there. If it's Instagram, it's Heather Littleton property. yeah, I've got my link trees and things like that on those. I've got a public profile so you can find me and connect with me there. So that'd be great. Amazing. And then as always, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official. We are Girls and Property on Instagram. And of course we have our Girls and Property community that you can come and join. We are now 75 strong, which is incredible. And our next meeting, yay. And our next meeting is going to be on, well it's usually the first Tuesday of every month. So that is going to be the Tuesday, the fifth of October. So next week. So yeah, come and join us. And then don't forget, we've also got the Girls and Property Christmas Gala on Saturday, the 7th of December. and community members get a 10 % discount. It's gonna be in a Hartfordshire penny manner, so make sure that you grab that. And then finally, because we spoke about mindset on this topic today as part of the podcast, I also do have a free property mindset accelerator course. So if anybody would like to get details of that, it's completely free of charge, just give me the word mindset and I'll happily send that over to you and you can get cracking with that and hopefully get your mindset in the right place. Heather, thank you so much again. I hope you have the most fabulous week ahead. Got some exciting things. And yeah, and if you need us, just reach out to us guys, but have a great week and enjoy yourselves. Thanks for listening. Bye. bye.