Transforming Spaces: Creative Property Investing with Award-Winning Investor Hayley Andrews

Join us for an inspiring episode of the Girls in Property Podcast as we chat with award-winning property investor Hayley Andrews!

In this episode, Athena dives deep into Hayley's remarkable journey, exploring how she built her impressive and diverse portfolio over decades of hard work and dedication. From traditional investments in HMOs and serviced accommodation to innovative projects like land for car parking display machines and transforming a museum into a city leisure complex, Hayley’s approach to property investment is anything but ordinary.

Athena and Hayley also discuss the challenges of being in the public eye and the entertaining techniques Hayley uses to overcome her stage fright when speaking to large audiences.

Hayley's story is one of resilience and authenticity, proving that with hard work and determination, anyone can achieve their goals if they are willing to put the effort in.

Tune in for a candid, fun, and insightful conversation that will inspire you to think outside the box in your own property journey. 

How to get involved with the Girls in Property Community 👇

🎄 Book your GIP Christmas Gala Ticket Today

👩 Join Our Community

🔔 Subscribe to our Mailing List

🎧Listen to our Podcast

🎬Subscribe to our GIP YouTube Channel

GET IN TOUCH

📷 Instagram

😄 Facebook

💌 Email us: girlsinpropertypod@gmail.com

Thank you to our main sponsor of this podcast Blanc Property Finance

Don’t Miss Out! Click here to claim your FREE access to the Mindset Accelerator Programme. Start developing the mindset you need to become an outstanding property investor today! 🚀


Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews ...

Transcript

0:00

then Steve will just cut it. Right, Steve will cut this for us, so don't worry too much. I'll just do like a three, two, one, and then we'll go for it. So, let me get into position. Okay, and we're gonna go in. Three, two, one. Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. How is everybody doing today? I wonder if there's some sunshine today on the day that you have. Today, not so much, but hopefully where you are taking the kids to school or heading off to work and you're listening to the podcast, you have a bit of a ray of sunshine. So in today's episode on this Monday morning, I am so excited about this episode and I know we're have so many other listeners excited about it too. because I have the absolutely beautiful and outstanding Hayley Andrews on the podcast today. Hey, Hayley. Hey, great to be here. Yes, I've been so excited about getting you on this podcast. It's so important and just I just know we're going to have the most interesting conversation with lots of depth and lots of almost different ways that the podcast could go in such a wonderful way. All good ways, all good ways, All good ways. Absolutely. So Haley, first of all, know a lot of listeners will know of you. How would we get a lot of new listeners as well? So please, before we start, could you go about introducing yourself, tell everybody a bit about you and maybe something interesting that we don't know. okay. So hello, my name is Haley Andrews. I'm a investor and developer. I started investing in 2002. So my portfolio consists of both commercial and residential and has everything from schools, bars, restaurants, car parks, hotels, factories, museum, which hopefully we'll get the opportunity to talk about, and bike sleds, HMOs, lodge and small and everything else in between. I've tried... Lots of people say that I'm a jack of all trades, but hopefully I master quite a lot of them as well. I am the co-founder of Your Freedom Empire, which is a global property and business training organization. We're across 18 different countries. I have a sourcing platform of 42 agents UK wide. I own a construction company, a state and lettings agency. I sit on three historical buildings, boards, and I'm a trustee of those as well. And I'm a governor across various different entities on the town's board. I do lots of volunteer work as well. And yeah, I'm one of the angels on the Hitsky TV show, Property Elevator as well, if anyone watches that. I think that's enough about me. Wow. I mean, if that isn't impressive, I don't know what is impressive. That's absolutely fantastic. And I'm going to ask you a question that I sometimes get asked myself is how do you fit it all in? And so I'd love to say that I'm exceptional, but I'm really not. I'm just very good at time management. I book absolutely everything in my diary. I hold myself accountable if I... put something down, it's in my diary, I do it regardless of how I feel or what else is going on. I'm super accountable. I think I've always been that way. And it's all about using, it's not about how much time you have, it's how well you use the time you have. And I do that very, very well. But I work extremely hard as well. I mean, get up at four o'clock in the morning, I go to bed at half past nine at night. And I get a good, decent, nice sleep and I get started very early. Wow. It's so inspirational. This is why I wanted to get you on the podcast was to show what amazing things somebody such as yourself, regardless of gender, is doing in the industry. And I absolutely love that. And I can't wait to delve more thoroughly into different strategies that you are doing at the moment. Particularly I read when in the Blue Bricks magazine recently that I saw that you wrote an article for. The fact that you're also getting into is it display, part-time displays as well. Yeah, yeah. Actually, one of the newest strategies that I've started to, it's only in the last couple of years. And I'm very much about putting a product back to the market that's missing, making sure that there's good demand. But I do hold feasibility reports on everything. about that area. I go out to the public, I speak to local businesses, I find out what's missing and with one of the opportunities that I was purchasing it was an asset, a commercial asset management. Basically I was buying a commercial building with quite a large pot of land on the side and most people were looking at that plot of land for a development opportunity. However, it's a conservation area, the building was listed, there was protective use of the castle. I knew 100 % they would not get planning permission to build on that plot of land. So I wanted to obviously look at, how can I maximize this as much as I possibly can? I've got a tenant lined up, I do that quite often. So I protect my downside. So I was buying a property that was listed. I'd worked on that property previously with grant funding through the Heritage Fund as well, so I knew the building, I knew that lots of the issues with the building had been sorted, such as asbestos and all things like that, and I knew that it was good solid investment in a good solid building. So I put an unconditional offer on there and completed within 30 days, which was quite challenging with that particular property itself. But the icing on the cake was this, was not only asset management and actually buying out a liquidation at a really good price and then putting a good solid covenant, a good solid tenant in there with a £24 million turnover, we were able to refinance and pull some capital out with very little injection. And then the land on the side, actually identified that parking was an issue and people were prepared to pay for pay and display across businesses and people that were commuting or people that were visiting the town or surrounding attractions. that was the first pay and display that I did and that car park generates and it is pure passive income. Property is not passive and I say this all the time. You can try as much as you want, but the book still ends with you and there's still a level of involvement and I've never known property to be passive and I'm quite sure I'm not doing it wrong, but there is a level of involvement. So this notion of passive income with property is bullshit, basically, pardon my French. But with car parks, my God, I mean, the first car park I ever did, and it generates me 6,000 pounds a month. It is free income because the property itself didn't require the parking and the land that it came with. So it was a free plot of land. We got planning permission on it, put a paying display on there. It generates 6,000 pounds a month. That's on average over the first 12 months that it was running. It's better than that now. And it was completely free. Icing on the cake, fantastic investment. So now I'm looking, and if anybody's out there, looking for good solid plots of land in great locations where I know how to do all the feasibility on that to make sure that it's a good viable business option. And I'm looking at paying display car parks moving forward as an actual viable strategy. And it completely turns off, it's all video. I'm with Parkin' Eye at the moment and with our car parks and they do the entire setup. We get 100 % of the revenue. They just take the parking fines or a percentage of the parking fines. So really. Wow, look at you go, because you often say, don't you? You're like, what strategy do you do? And your response usually is wherever the money is. Yes. Yeah, think a lot of people can get tunnel fission tonight. I did this myself in the beginning as well. You you you do your courses and things like that. It's all right. I'm going to focus on service accommodation. Well, actually, if you just focus on service accommodation, yes, you are going to obviously get very good at service accommodation and you finding those particular assets that suit that strategy well and you build a new business in that particular strategy. But there's so many other things you might be missing out on. And I think variety is the spice of life. I I absolutely love property. As I said, I've been in the industry since 2002 and property is the only industry that has kept me interested for so long. And that's because I'm always forever growing, learning, pushing myself forward. And I'm never in my comfort zone, ever. I don't remember what it's like to feel comfortable. And I kind of feel like, if I'm not learning something new or challenging myself, then I'm standing still and that's not where I want to be. I'm always about learning and pulling yourself forward. Yeah, I love that. And taking risk as well, know, just thinking, it's a perfect risk. But everything we do, it's a risk. know, we walk out the door in the morning and it's a risk, know, every time you get in your car, it's a risk. So it's about... you know, saying, well, I know how to drive, I know I can walk to the car, I know the route, I'm confident, you know, it's the same approach with business and with property. Confidence comes with knowing. And risk is relative to us as an individual. What are we prepared to put up down or on the line? And are we prepared to lose that to gain something better? That's the, you know. That's the risk isn't it? Yeah, I absolutely adore that. I love that. What a fantastic way to demonstrate how you can do such different things and think outside the box as well. I haven't heard of anybody who is doing what you're doing. I really don't. And I just think you're literally paving the way forward to show how can we think differently. And I just think it's a gift. I think it's gift that you have to be able to see an opportunity and think, how can we make money from this? It's just about solving problems, that's all it is. So rather than avoiding the problems, find them and then come up with a solution. So I like that game. I like being able to take something most people have walked away from or a challenge that most people wouldn't rise to and actually say, well, okay, how can I do this? What will work? and really just brainstorming that until I come up with a plan. And I always come up with plans. And I think it's just perseverance, know, those that stick at it the longest and are prepared to put the hard work in and continuing to challenge themselves, you know, and say, well, okay, I don't see the answer right now, but I will see the answer. What can we do to make this work? What is the best route? But I think I also approach it that way as well because I like multiple exits. And so let's say I didn't do the hard part, at least I know that if there was any issues or if I wanted to address that further down the line, there's a way of adding an additional 6,000 pounds passive income there. I knew that before I purchased. yeah. I love that. Spreading your risk, guess. It is about spreading your risk. Absolutely. Multiple sources. All the way. I advocate this massively when looking at strategies. And then in terms of something you're celebrating at the moment, what would you say you're celebrating? This year or overall? Yeah, recently. What are you celebrating? So, I mean, I was celebrating... that I just won. So I won Property Investor of the Year Award 2024 and also for our new networking event for females which is Hard Hats to Heels, Networking Community of the Year Award as well. I'm also writing for Blue Brits which will be a regular column which is fantastic, absolutely love. Sam, although he hasn't sent me the copy that we were talking about prior to pressing record. I'll pull him up on that. We're celebrating series seven of Property Elevator. I've been on lots of stages this year throughout the UK as a result of that, but also Grand Designs as well, which was fantastic. I think that's one of my highlights of the year. But ultimately, guess, towards the end of this year, I'll be celebrating adding just under six million to my portfolio, which is pretty decent, I think, for a 12-months work. Wow. Adding six million within 12 months. That's incredible. mean, massive, massive achievement. I mean, some of them have been negotiated like two years previously. We're just completing them this year. So yeah, this year, that's the value of... my portfolio would have gone up by six, well, just under six million. That's fantastic. And with Grand Designs, because I love Grand Designs, I watch Grand Designs, what are you doing with them? So it's talking about property elevator, but talking about the industry as a landlord, also as a developer as well, the challenges, you know, the government, all things like that, how are we affected and all of that type of stuff. But also educating people in a way that, know, the brand designs is a fantastic show, but quite often it's kind of built to own type of strategy. They're, you know, it's not an investment as such. It's more of their hope, which most people are actually on the show are doing. So it's really about showing people the different side of property, I guess. But with Peter Hunt, who with Money Watch Finance, who is a fantastic host, and on their live shows, obviously asking us questions, which can be everything from, know, what do you think for Labour government? What's going to happen with budget? You know, what's the challenges that you're facing right now as a developer? What's it like to be a female in the industry? So there's kind of no one rule or one approach. It's everything. Yeah. I love that. Great show. Fantastic show. It's an amazing show. Yeah, I adore, I adore grand designs. I always get fascinated how they can just turn these, these properties or even like, not even properties like dishevelled barns or dishevelled church houses into the most outstanding properties. And I love it. I watch it and it really relaxes me when I watch it. It's just like, wow, look what you could do. Yeah. I mean, there's so much you can do with property. And I guess I think the reason I like Rante Science is because property for me is a business. So it's not, I'm not building my dream home. You know, I'm not building something of that scale. So it's completely different to the approach that I take. And that's not the product that I put back to the market. So I get to indulge in that a little bit, I guess. So I think that's why I like it, because it's kind of like the other side of it. where money isn't necessarily an issue and it's not an investment to your business as such, it's not a business decision. For me, property has always been, you know, it's a business, that's what it is for me. So I look at obviously the product that I'm putting back to the market and one I'd love to do, you know, is beautiful high-end. If that's not my market, that's not what I'm doing. So I guess you have to take yourself out of it and... remove the emotion and you know what you would want it to look like or how fabulous it could be because it's not, that's not my, that's not why I'm doing it. You know, I'm doing it to make money. I'm not ashamed of saying that. So. of course. Yeah, absolutely. See, one thing you just mentioned there, which I'm really curious about is you speak about the fact that you're sometimes on panels and when you're on a panel or you're answering questions, you have no idea sometimes what person the audience could would ask you almost. And I had my first experience of that where I was invited to be on a panel for the first time. And I thought, couldn't prepare anything because I thought, right, what is about to come out? How do we answer it? How do you feel about that? Do you ever get nervous or have you done it so many times now that you've heard all sorts of things? And what's the craziest thing someone's ever asked you maybe on stage? I actually always get nervous. So people don't recognize this about me. But while I've been in the industry for over two decades, it's only really recently that I've been in the spotlight because I've been so busy just doing and not really, you know, pushing the social media or getting on people's stages. So I would say that I've only really been recognized or actually people then understanding or seeing what I've done since property elevator. And so it's only the last three years or so, and being on property question time and things like that. And then people actually, you know, going and having a look and seeing the businesses that I own or the portfolio that I own and understanding the different strategies and different niche markets that I operate in and finding it interesting. So I've been invited there. So I guess the speaking has come from a, well, it's just been a result of my success. It's not been something that I chased or desired or wanted necessarily to do. And I get extremely nervous about being on stage. you know, I'll tell you a story. So I've spoken, I'm actually named as a public speaker, which is nonsense because I'm really not a very good public speaker at all. However, I have spoken on, well I don't feel I am, but other people do say that I am, but I've spoken on stages all over the world and I used to go and be flown to different countries to speak about property, getting into property and bringing internationals into the UK market. And I'd been doing that for over a decade and I was doing it really well. But people were actually always coming up to me and saying, know, you're such a good speaker and you know, you're belonging. I was thinking, you have no idea what's going on in the room at all. But I would get so nervous that I actually had a coach to try and get rid of my nerves. And I would get that nervous that I would actually be vomiting prior to speaking and all things like that. I couldn't hold a mic. had to have the proper one. Madonna type mic or the one that's not my because you can see me shaking. That's how bad I used to get. And they gave me a technique to follow. They did this kind of like voodoo thing, which was very random. And I don't really believe in that nonsense, but something worked. But they gave me this technique where you expel energy prior to getting on stage. And this is just for anyone that maybe struggles or gets nervous before they're going on a panel of public speaking. And it's, they said, right, go to, you know, the back of the room or a, you know, a different room and scream as loud as you possibly can. So I started doing this and it worked. And then the one time, there was actually rituals at the time, the one time, they'd miced me all up. Five minutes before I was about to go on stage, I went right to the basement toilets. screamed as loud as I could, come back up, swanning in on stage, Haley Andrews, blah blah blah. And the room was silent. And I was like, what's going on? Everybody had heard me screaming because they'd got the mic on in the room, which was, I honestly never been so embarrassed in my entire life, but the room just erupted with laughter. I had to tell them the story. Everybody thought I was being murdered. I'm here. You would have learned to say that. Wow. Yeah, no, I think you do get used to it, but it comes again with confidence. doesn't matter what questions someone's going to ask you, because as long as you're answering that question from your own experience and with honesty, you can't really go far wrong. Whether it's the answer they want to have or not, it doesn't matter. They've asked a question, it's your opinion. I don't really mind. think I prefer not knowing what the questions are. But quite often you will get panels where they'll give you an idea of what questions you're likely to be asked. For me, the reason I ask, what do you want me to talk about or what is the topic of the panel, is because I fit into so many different panels with the different strategies that I do. So it's kind of like, well, what is it? What are we talking about? No, it doesn't bother me anymore. to be honest, I still get nervous, but I can manage that. And I absolutely love, you know, I love the panels, I love speaking, really just so that I can share with people and grow as an individual, but also help them grow as well. Hopefully the things that I'm saying is helping them in some way, they're, you know, they're saying, do you know what? That's exactly how I feel, or that's the experience that I've had. And it gives them confidence because they may be just starting out and having doubts in a particular structure or a particular task that they're trying to do. And me saying, actually, I felt exactly the same. You we all start somewhere. And you know, you your stake in the ground and you get on with it and this will pass. And confidence comes with knowing. And you're going to be exactly where I am in 10 years time. You know, that's way it works. So if someone takes the tiniest little thing from what I say, I'm happy. Yeah. That's so funny. I love the fact that you were just really open and really raw with everybody when you came on stage as well, because it just makes you relatable. It's just like, guys, I have a story to tell you. And actually it was probably the best opening you could have done to have them hooked at the end of their seat listening to you. I tell you what, so at the end of each, they always do kind of feedback. speaker feedback and people fill it out in the room. So you're in a room of hundreds of people and the event organizers are passing out kind of, you know, questionnaires, know, rating the speakers, tonality, things like that, content, all of that stuff. And it was the best score I'd ever got. I think it's important to just be yourself really. And I could have gone on stage and come up with some know, nonsense story of what had happened. But it was funny. It was real. It was honest. It completely broke me ice. And yeah, I had a really good time that day. You should do that more often. think you should start doing it on purpose. Yeah. It could be your opening going forward. That's the only time I've ever done it. I check my mic every single time now. Do you still scream? Do you still do it? Yeah. Yeah, I do. you? Okay, now I know. If I remember coming to an event and you're speaking, I'm like, she's in the basement. Yeah. I mean, only if it's a really big event. If it's a smaller event, then I don't really feel I need to do it anymore. But it depends on how nervous I get. Sometimes, we're fully confident and we can stand there and there's none of this imposter syndrome, despite the fact that what we're doing is exactly what we're saying we're doing and we're doing a good job. I think as women, sometimes we doubt ourselves. Naturally, we always kind of, you know, not put ourselves down, but there's an even if it's just an instant kind of, you know, am I where I'm supposed to be? Or is it, you know, what if somebody asked me a question I don't know the answer to? And if I sit there and feel that after 20 years in the industry, I hate to think how you're feeling, how long, five years is it? No, two. To you, you know, to be even on a panel in two years time is superb and you should be extremely proud of yourself when you're there for a reason, you know. So just have confidence in that to say, I've been invited here on, you know, because I belong here. Were you on a panel with any other women or was it? No, so this was what was really interesting, actually. So I was, I was invited as the female. speaker on the panel. And actually, I can't give away too much information because it's not public knowledge, but I have a few more of these coming up for 2025 where I've been invited to speak again, which is lovely, like really great. Yay. But what was fascinating was, so it was Paul's Manchester property, Manchester property social event. So it was Paul Stapleton, me in the middle, and then Sean Davis, who's fantastic. So two guys and me. And I'll tell you what, what was so interesting was my perception was completely wrong to what happened. So I thought what would happen was in this room, it would just be the women that would ask me questions about women related things. And that's such a silly thing to think, but because I hadn't done it before, that was my perception. So I thought the girls will want to talk to me. The girls will want to ask questions about being a woman. Fine. That is completely the opposite to what happened. Loads of guys were so interested in my journey within service accommodation, HMOs. We talked about burnout. We talked about... property accountancy and how I've managed that. And the conversation was so, so nothing to do with gender. It was all to do with real information. And actually I had such important conversations with the guys in the audience and I felt so connected to the guys. And I thought that was really powerful that the guys were like, can we ask a question to Athena when Paul and Sean was sat there and I was like, can we go? I thought it was brilliant. mean, Paul is fantastic. Yes, of course. The events that he puts on, he's a massive champion of women in the industry. The people that are part of his community are not looking at gender. They're looking at business people progressing themselves, being around like-minded individuals. And I think that's the important thing, isn't it? It's not about men versus women. It's about being in a room where it doesn't matter what gender you are, it just matters what you have to say. So I think that Paul nails that. I love speaking in his events. Yeah, he's fantastic. And I said this recently, actually, it's got nothing to do with gender. It's about being around good people. I feel like in this particular industry, there are unfortunately not so good people and good people. nothing to do with gender. I know good guys, I know good girls, I know bad guys, I know bad girls. And it's like, well, let's just be what we wanna see in our world. And I think that's the important message. But I do think it is important just to say that I do love it when I see you on stage or I see other women on stage and hopefully I can be that going forward. So that when women are sitting in the audience, they do feel like they are seen and heard because... a female is there representing a mum or, you know, just a powerful woman. And I do think that that is important still in this industry. It's not about segregation. It's just about empowerment. And I think that, you know, me, you, Kim, Anastasia, Rosalia, you know, all of us are doing such an amazing job, I think. And I'm so proud of us for really championing that forward for women. hopefully there'll be an army of us, you know, soon. and just literally, can hear the music like, here come the girls and us just like, like just walking. so yeah, I love that. Then I actually haven't spoken about what I'm celebrating just before I then ask you just a couple of questions about what you were referring to. So I was thinking about what I was celebrating and sometimes what's important is, and I don't do this enough. I don't know about you, but I'm going to celebrate something quite small today. Usually when we celebrate and obviously I celebrate every single week for this podcast. Sometimes they can be quite big celebrations and there's some amazing things happening, but we forget about the small things and it's the small things that actually get us through day by day. So for example, I'm working extremely hard at the moment with trying to get everything done for the end of quarter four with lots of projects I've got on and of course the gala. And actually I was able to take a moment which I wasn't able to take last year, which was to stop for 45 minutes to an hour, which doesn't. sound like a lot, but for me last year would have been the end of the world if I had stopped working. I was able to just put my pen and paper down, laptop screen down and like go to the gym for 45 minutes to an hour. And nobody was in the gym. The gym was empty, which is like the best thing in the world that you can just use all the machines when you want. And I had a little moment to myself where I was like, hmm, this is nice. I've like created this for myself where I've able to finally, you know, put the laptop away, put the pen down. You know, I used to have moments, Hayley, where girls used to be quite worried about me, because I see this podcast every week and it's quite a raw authentic podcast. And I used to talk about burnout quite a lot and the fact that I was really struggling. And now I'm able to be like, actually in a really healthy place. I'm in a really good place to be. I'm, my, my, what's good for me and my mental health is actually working out and getting rid of some of those pressures that you've got, whatever that may be for you. And I spoke to Heather last week and Heather's one was going for, mini run, she walks her daughter to school and then she runs back. And it's like, what are those small wins that we can actually take on for ourselves? It doesn't have to be massive, doesn't have to be like, dude, it can just be like, you know, today I went to the gym or today I got my favorite ice cream or today I went for a really nice meal or something. And I think we have to, we have to really embrace those small wins when there's so much noise going on. So I'm just going to celebrate something really small today, which was I went to the gym, it was empty. Other people are at work. I've got my own job. I still get asked all the time when I'm at the gym, they're like, you know, heading back to work. And I'm like, yeah, you could say that. And they're like, does your boss mind? And I'm like, no, they don't mind. It's just quite a nice feeling. you know what mean? So I'm going to celebrate. I'm going to celebrate that today. I think it's important. So, hey, quick question for you. So we're talking about your journey into this and everything. And I know that you're so impactful when you go to talk about mindset as well. So I always say for a lot of people starting out, or even if they've had like years and years in the industry, sometimes their mindset isn't always necessarily in the right place. We talk about posture syndrome, we talk about how can we actually take that forward? What are your views in regards to where maybe your mindset is now compared to like where you started and how you've gone about getting yourself in that right frame of mind for where you are now? We talk about mindset, like it's, you do it and then it's done for life. And it's not, we all go through different waves of things that we have to deal with, know, life happens with or without us on board or not, it doesn't matter. So I think mindset is something that I talk about as, ongoing thing that you have to consistently choose. We all have negative thoughts, but do we then replace that with too positive? We all have things that we're dealing with, but do we become a victim or do we rise above it? Try and find the positive in that, the solution. So I think... Mindset for me really, and whenever I'm working with anyone and I'm not a mindset coach or anything like that, I can only talk about the things I do, is all about routine and good habits, in my opinion. So, it's like my morning routine, for example, is I get up, I drink a glass of water, I meditate for 20 minutes, I do my affirmations, then I do grinding. then I'll sometimes work out. I'm a little bit naughty working out at the moment, but after I hit 40, I was kind of like, well, you know, I've been with my husband now since he was 16 years old, since I was 16 years old. So, you know, if I get a little bit flumpy, it doesn't really matter so much. So I've been out of the game. I'd like to say I've been completely, you know, fantastic at all routines, but I haven't. And And nobody ever is all the time. And every single time we do something, it's a choice. Every time we miss the workout or every time we miss our meditation or we don't read our 10 pages in our book that particular day or whatever, it's a choice that we've made. And I think the important thing is to remember, you're not always gonna make the right choices, but consistently over time, are you? You you might not go to the gym every single day, but did you get three workouts done this week? You know, and you might not, you know, you might be doing a low carb day or no carb day or a special diet or whatever, and you went and had a Starbucks and, you know, a slice of carrot cake. It's okay to forgive yourself for those times that you fall short of your own expectations as long as you get back on the wagon the day after. You know, if you have carrot cake every single day, then you're going to need to go to the gym and work off an awful lot of calories. So I think it's important just to not see mindset as a thing that you either have or you don't. It's a consistent decision that we make to think a specific way. And depending on what's going on in your life, your experiences, where you come from, you your traumas and all things like that, and your triggers, it is it is something that you always will have to work on. You know, there's times where I fall short and there's times where I deliver everything I'm supposed to deliver and it's okay because I'm human and we're not perfect. So I think it's important to forgive yourself. It's important to really take note of the things where you are having negative thoughts or you get a bad vibe. I'm very much about vibes and people and I'm very much about energy as well. So I take note. And if I'm consistently feeling that way in that person's company or doing that particular thing, ultimately I do what I do because I'm passionate about it. And the success that I've had has just given me choice. That's it. That's all I ever wanted, choice, to be able to choose what I want to do, what I want to work on, focus on what gives me energy. And I don't need to be around people or things that take that energy away. So I'm very conscious of how I feel, very conscious of the energy around me. And I guess if I'm consistently feeling in a certain way, it's not for me. It's not giving up. It's recognizing that it's not for you, you know, and that's okay. And I think people kind of stick to things because they think that, well, so and so said, I have to do this or... This is exactly what it's supposed to be or this is the way I've been taught to do it. Well, actually you have to look at yourself and how it makes you feel and the energy you have around things and people and make the choices based on yourself. Because ultimately if you're happy, you'll do a better job. Simple as, you know, if there was any time, I'm actually nuts about property. I talk about property all day, every day. or it's, I'm pathetic really, if you think about it. It's all I do. But I don't, it's not just because it makes me money. It's something I'm actually genuinely really passionate about. And I love, you know, all of the different quirky deals that I'm doing. I love solving all the problems. I love negotiating. And I focus my time on things that, that gives me energy, things that excite me. And I guess I had to, when I first started out, do a lot of things I perhaps didn't want to do. But the successor then allows you to have choice. And I think that's, you know, that's where I am today. I focus on things that actually put me in the right frame of mind and not consistently pulling me in the wrong direction. And if it is, I leave it. That's it. It's a hundred percent all or nothing with me. There is absolutely no in between at all. Yeah. So I just keep people out of my life, whether that is people that I've known for a really long time, sometimes it's family as well. Sometimes it's the people that surround you that can affect your mindset and you are who you spend your time with. So I think it's important to surround yourself with people that are actually working on themselves and growing as individuals and practicing good habits and things like that. I love that. You're like me, it's like we get a packet of Jaffa cakes, you're like, I'll either eat the whole tube or none. There is no eating half a packet of Jaffa cakes. It's so funny how you said that you're pathetic and I was sat here going, do know if I'm making six million in 12 months, I will happily be pathetic. No, mean pathetic as in people say, what's your hobbies and things like that. And I'm like, well. Property. Property. It's not right for me. is who I am. And this is why, you know, when people say to me, what's it like to be a woman in the industry? I turn around and say, you while there has been challenges and things have been difficult over the last two decades, and a lot better now than they ever were, I've never recognised it as a man's world, because it's my world. It's who I am. It's what I do. you know, I do this day in, day out and have done for a very long time and me without property wouldn't exist. You know, I am who I am because of what I do, but because I'm passionate about what I do as well. Yeah, beautifully said. I love that. And I stand by that. Absolutely. So the museum then, and some of the investments that you're doing. like, what do you think to myself? If somebody came up to me now, I mean, you know, two years into the industry, somebody came up to me and said, see investing in a museum, I'd be like, I don't even know where to start at all. So what gave you the desire or did you find it, somebody bring it to you? How did the museum come about and what is the plans for it? So business is about relationships, whether that's property or any other business. So over the last decade in this particular area, well, actually more like 15 plus years, I'd been building relationships with local planning, the council, I sit on several boards and all things like that. I give my time freely to be part of communities that are in the know. This particular property, the museum, actually came as a result of three properties that I was looking to buy, but came as a relationship that I'd had for many years. So I'd actually purchased this from the council. And so I know that obviously councils are struggling from a financial point of view. They're looking to offload a lot of stock. And this property was a problem. This was a museum that had a covenant on there to state it could only be used as a museum. Somebody listed it partway through me purchasing as well, which is kind of like karma's the ultimate bitch because I specialize in listed buildings. So they actually did me a favor. because you don't pay business rates on empty listed buildings. So it saved me an awful lot of money. And, you know, there's loads of problems with this property. So it's a huge property and I negotiated a stupidly discounted price. But as a result of the regeneration I was bringing to the area with this coupled with the two other properties that I was building this entertainment quarter with. This particular building, the museum, I used to go there as a child. I drive past every single day. I took my son there. Right up to the week it was closed, it been closed for over a decade. And it's absolutely stunning building in a great location. And I was gutted that it took closed down as a museum because I love history and hence probably why I do listed buildings. I was there all the time and when I had the conversation with the council about offloading some of their stock, this particular property came up and that was kind of like, it's meant to be. Even the postcode is HP, which is hilarious because everything was meant to be. So while it is a passion project, It's also going to make me an awful lot of money and it is part of a wider regeneration plan that I have going on in a particular quarter of that part of the town. And it will actually couple up with a bar and restaurant, which used to be a fire station, beautiful bar and restaurant now, and a hotel. Well, it was offices and we've got planning permission, we're converting it into a 16-bed hotel. So it's all part of the same thing. But with the museum, everybody that looked at it obviously saw this covenant that it was only to be used as a museum and all things like that. And it's a listed building. There's no windows. Well, there is, but very just not in the places. So anyone that was looking at it would probably look at it as commercial to residential conversion. It wasn't the right location for that. It's not what the council wanted. So again, I did a feasibility report. went out and what was missing in this particular part of the town was a destination. There was no, what are people coming to this part of the towns for? It's an education hub. So you've got several colleges, both private and also university status as well. The student footfall is ridiculous. but I wanted to create something, well, what's missing? So I did a feasibility on, it can't be residential, it wouldn't work as residence, so it's not what the council wants. So I put a plan together, went to the council and said, right, I'm gonna buy these three buildings and this is what I'm gonna do with it, which was the hotel, the bar and restaurant and sports bar, and then the museum, which will be an entertainment hub. So it's called Fun City. and it will have escape rooms, inflatination, cricket sixes, indoor food huts with street food, arcades and laser time in there. And that's what was missing. That's what was missing from the area. know, something for people to go out and actually do. And so the idea is that this becomes a destination hub and the bar and restaurants and the hotel services, the entertainment. quarter. Wow. Are you doing that on your own or are you doing that with others? I know I do it on my own. Wow. you're- When I say on my own, obviously I've got my team. It's my- Of course it's your team, but it will have, it will have your name on the, on the registry. I own it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Can you imagine that? Just like owning a massive leisure complex. That's so cool. It's really cool actually. everything else. It is really cool. It's different as well. I mean, I've not done an entertainment quarter before, you know, I'm learning a hell of a lot of stuff. We're looking at franchises and all things like that. And we're looking at a hybrid between running some of the businesses from the building itself, but also obviously rental as well. So becoming, of course, the destination for some of the well-known brands for their franchisees as well. So it's all new. It's super exciting. It comes with its challenges because it is, of course, a listed building. I got planning permission on it now, of course, and we started works on it as well. So we're actually a couple of months behind on this particular project. But. It's just down to heritage and getting the sign off and conditions of the plannings and all things like that. But this building had had no roof on for over a year. It had got, it was rigged, it did so many bad decisions on this particular building for the beauty the building is. But she is absolutely beautiful. And if you go onto my Instagram, you'd be able to see some pictures there. She's all scaffolded up at the moment, so she looks not as beautiful as she normally does, but it's all in good time that that will come down. Do you have an idea of when that will be completed by? Well, I was aiming for Christmas, but as we're two months roughly behind and we still don't have sign off on one condition, it won't affect anything really. It's just the process at the moment is being held up. I think, well, I've given myself until September next year to sort it out. But I reckon we're probably not far off January, February. Wow. Yes. my goodness. I cannot wait to come and see it. like fun in the city. That is so cool. I love leisure arcades. a massive You have to get girls in property to come round and do a site visit. We'll hook up girls in property in Howard Hester Heals. You can also do my hotel. And you can go and do a live site visit. Right. Ladies, get in touch with me. Who's definitely interested in that. My DMs are about to explode, Hayley. We will make that happen because I think that is just fantastic. My last question for you just before we do our property disasters is if you go back to kind of, know, you've been in the industry for two decades now. So if you go back to originally like you, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong here, we sort of started off with buy-to-lets and service accommodation. Did you do HMOs as well? Did you dabble on HMOs? It started off with buy toilets. Then we went into smaller HMOs, is four to six beds. Then we went into larger HMOs, then service accommodation, then commercial asset management, then commercially multiple occupation, then development, then listed buildings. Yeah, so there's kind of a slow progression there. Not like slow about it. And what was, what would you say was your first ever out of the box investment you ever did? Before the museum, what other things came before that that were a bit unique, a different? I think probably the first large HMO I did. So it was a factory and we conversed it into a 21-bed, 21-onsuite HMO with three basement flats, which were standard by Tollette, so they were self-contained. There was two two-beds, one one-bed, and then these 21-onsuite rooms on top. and then we split out into seven flats in total. So, you know, we've got seven kitchens, a laundrette and all things like that in there. I think that was probably like, that was, that was scary. I think that step up from, you your six, what would be fours, your fives, your sixes to then go to 21 and then back to let's also. it was a, it was a community straight off. But still one of my favorite investments actually, I learned a lot through that particular deal. I negotiated that one perfectly as well. Again, there were lots of problems with that property and there were also enforcement notices and things like that on there. yeah, was a lot of learning through that. but I still own it within my portfolio today. It's about 25 % loan to value at the moment and it's worth nearly two million. So, well, actually it's probably worth more than that now. But yeah, it's cash cow. think I always joke and say, if I ever stop loving what I'm doing and I genuinely would undo, you know, I'm qualified in so many different things. just don't, nothing's ever kept me interested as long as property. And I think it's because I challenge myself constantly all the time. But if I ever got fed up of property, I'd keep my commercial and that's the only residential I'd keep. I'd sell everything else, I think. And just the income off there is allowing more to cover me. So that's kind of one. don't think I'd ever sell that, to be honest. I love that. And do know what? We're not going to talk too much about sort of because it's spoken about so often in terms of women within property, but I will just say, I do think it's so important and I really do think it's important to hear you doing such inspiring things within this industry, regardless of gender. But I think it is important for women who do listen to this podcast to hear you coming forward to do all of these incredible things and to make them believe that they can do it also. And I do just want to say that because I do think that is really important because You, one thing that's important to say, like sometimes I get quite a lot of mums, for example, that come and speak to me. Well, I don't have children and everybody knows I don't have children. I hope to have children one day and have a family. really do. But they say, look, I'm restricted quite a lot because of child care or because of my children and I've got to be a mum and I've got to do this. So do you mind just briefly, like, because you are a mum, you know, how have you found that in terms of building up your empire? You know, it's massive. How have you done it? Well, I mean, they always say, don't they, a woman's work is never done and there is no true word. I don't think, you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you have cleaners, people that take care of your children, your house, your garden, all things like that. There's still work to be done always. I think the thing for me was because I was doing it prior to having my son as well. So my son's 15 now. So the thing for me was, being a mum is like my, he's my biggest legacy. He's what I'm most proud of and I'm a mum first and foremost and I made the decision that I would never compromise on that. If you didn't accept me with a child stuck to my chest for a meeting or, it didn't matter. That's it, we didn't do business. And there was no black and white for me. It was, that's what it was. And while I had pushback and they were kind of like, well, is it appropriate to have a child or you get looks and things like that? I didn't care. You know, I didn't care. And as soon as they realized that you accept me with a child strapped to my chest and we're going to do business this way or no business at all. And I was confident and assertive enough to kind of put those cards on the table. They accepted me exactly for who I was, which was a mom, and an investor, and a developer, and a wife, and everything else. So I think so many times we get, I think as women, kind of remain feel guilty to be everything to everyone, but nothing at the same time. You you can't be committed to one thing because if you're a great mom, how can you be a great business person or how do you commit the time? And that's nonsense. You know, at the end of the day, even when my son was, you know, just walking around and, and toddling about, I made checklists for him, laminated them and he'd walk around with his little, little clipboard and his little badge that said Jack Andrews, operational manager. And I dressed him up in his little suit and he'd come out onto meetings and viewings with me and he'd have a task that particular day and so many sheets that were printed out. it's like, well, how many bedrooms were in that one? And was there a swirly carpet and how many toilets was it smelly and all of that stuff? I really, it was important for me to have him with me. But it was important for me to still grow my business as well. So I, brought the two together and lots of women that I work with now that are new moms and trying to juggle being a mom and still having that individuality in their business and everything else and wanting to still grow but not compromise being a mom either. This is someone we've created and we've brought into the world and you love more than anything in the world. And so they're everything to you. So to take from one to give to another wasn't... something that I was prepared to do. So I had to combine the two together. And if you were to see him now, you know, he is, he's going to be, I mean, he is amazing, but he's, he's going to be amazing. And it's because he's been around those conversations, he's been involved. It's a family business and he is, you know, everything to me. Everything I'm doing is for him, you know, for... to leave for him and future generations to come, his children, their children. So I think, don't feel guilty about it. At the end of the day, being a mother is, it's a gift and anyone that sees it as being negative is, I just don't see point in doing business with them. They don't recognize the role that you play. Yeah, so I would say, lay cards on the table. You you can't be everything to everyone, but you've got to obviously choose what's most important to you. And for me, it was my son and my business. And I was doing that around taking care of my husband, who was poorly as well, you know. But again, it just comes back to pre-planning everything, you know, it's hard work. Don't get me wrong, Christ, there were times I would rock in a corner and cry and just think. You know, why do I, you know, why am I, it was so much easier if I just got a five, nine to five job, switch off at the end of the day, you know, and, and I'd be working 18 hour plus days around, you know, breastfeeding and doing everything else and, know, and all of that stuff. And it was hard. It was bloody hard, but it was what I wanted. Yeah. So you can't be a victim and pursue your dreams. You've got to do one or the other, you know, So I kind of said, this is my choice. This is what I want to do. And in order for me to grow my business and be the best mom I possibly can be, this is what it requires right now. And I just woke up every day and did the best I possibly could consistently for a period of time. And it all worked out okay in the end. was lost. I did wrong. But yeah. It's all beautifully said that honestly, absolutely beautifully said. And I hope that the I'm sure all the listeners are listening and nodding and, and feeling that too. So yeah, and thank you for sharing that because one day I hope to be a mum. So you know, I hope to take a little board and a pen and be like, what we're doing. So I'm taking notes as well about how to do it the best way. It's important if you can keep your children occupied and get jobs one at the same time. It's a win-win situation. They're with you and, you know, yeah, it's so I feel free to just reach out and I'd be happy to share them with you. I might actually do a because I do work with children as well in different schools. I sit on a governor on a trust which runs across several academics. And quite often, I do obviously give people ways of working with different times and things like that and different situations. So I might actually do something for young moms that are growing their business to try and help them through that kind of difficult juggling phase. There you go. look at you creating more solutions. You're like, here's the problem, more solutions, more work. And then just to finish off the podcast, Hayley, what would be your, well, we do property disasters at the end, because it's a bit of fun and the listeners love hearing it. So I'm sure that everything has gone as well to plan as possible. have you got anywhere you're just like, do know, I've got a really funny story about a property mishap, property disaster to share. don't know about funny. It's never funny when you get it wrong. Disaster, Christ, there's so many. I would say the biggest, not disaster because it actually ended up okay in end, but the most challenging project I've ever worked on was the bank on Riley Hill High Street. It used to be a bank, so the vaults and everything were in there. But everything that could have gone wrong with a property did with that one. So we converted that into 11 units. So it was quite a big building. But it was, we paid about £100,000 too much. I knew I was paying that much too much for it, but it was brought to me again by the council. It was owned by an international investor. that had come through a training organisation, nothing to do with me. I had purchased it in auction and it kept bouncing out of auction. It was becoming a problem to the community. So the council brought it to me to say, would you buy this property? I saw it and said, absolutely not. It was like something out of Jumanji. It was awful. But it had got structural problems. It would have been cheaper to knock this building down, but It was community, it was working with obviously the High Street Fund as well and we ended up getting grant funding of 320 grand on there as well but without the funding it wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't have done it. So I actually ended up pulling about 200,000 pounds out of that. It was valued at just under a million and generated 90,000 pounds a year. So it was a decent investment in the end, but it nearly cost me my marriage. I broke my fingers on site as well. I had to issue a certificate of non-completion for the first time ever with the contractor on site. So I had to deal with all of that, not being in control, which is not good for me. I'm a control freak. But because I was using grant funding, I had to go with their preferred contractor and all of that type of stuff. So yeah, the project ran about nine months over due to the main contractor being behind time, extension of time, and then not delivering as well and me having to issue a certificate of non. and getting them off site. So that was a ball ache. But in the end, I ended up actually completing it on time, but my reduced time was the second phase. So what I should have had six months to do, I did in three. I had like 15 guys on site. day and night, so we were alternating and we managed to pull it off but it was an absolute nightmare. Everything that could have gone wrong structurally, there were loads of stuff that we didn't see and when then went stripping it out, you know, there was a rotten beam that was holding up the entire front of the property and you couldn't see it because it was all behind the walls and there was no... No way we could have seen it. There were so many hidden issues with that property. Everything that could have gone wrong. Bats, weeds, damp, every different kind of damp you could possibly think of. It was awful. But you kept going. You kept going. It didn't put you off. I kind of had to, but well, that's thing, isn't it? Once you're committed, there's no point in giving up. You've got to get the job done. I'm not afraid of hard work rolling my sleeves up, but I had to be on site every single day to push that project through and get it completed in that three months where I should have had the six months to get it sorted. Because it was in two phases. So the grant funding was the getting it structurally sound, back to brick, watertight, roof completed, windows restored and things like that. And then my internal fit out, I should have had six months, but they were so far behind. it completely into my time. But yeah, we managed to do it but off the bridging loan just in time, refinanced and pulled, as I said, just under a couple of hundred thousand pounds out and got an asset for free and income for life. That's the mantra, isn't it? Congratulations. That's absolutely fantastic. Especially there's a bridging loan on it as well. So stressful. Well, it wouldn't have worked. I wouldn't have done that deal without the grant funding. So, you know, that was cherry on the cake, I guess. ultimately my project worth my while in the end. But yeah, as I said, I met my husband at 16 and that one almost cost us our marriage. That's how stressful it got. That's my biggest nightmare. Wow, what a story. I've always said I'm going to be making a book one day of all of these stories because It just shows you like what can happen and the industry that we're in. But Haley, I've loved this podcast. I can't wait for all of the listeners to hear it. It's been so insightful, so interesting to hear as well. So thank you so much for coming on. If people wanted to get in contact with you for like your Freedom Empire, Hard Hats to Heels, all of the things that you were doing, what is the best way for people to get in contact with you? Probably just find me on LinkedIn. So it's Hayley Andrews. You can direct message me on there or you can go and visit our website. So of course we've got Hothats for Heels and Your Freedom Empire. So you can pop on there, book a call in with me or anything like that. But no, I'll go across all social medias apart from TikTok. Don't do TikTok. Neither do I. No. But you can reach out to me on any of the social platforms. personally, the business ones are taken care of obviously by my team, but my personal one is me that will reply to you. Fantastic. Thank you so much. And if you want to get in contact with me, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official, and of course, Girls and Property on Instagram. And yeah, we've still got some tickets, limited tickets available to the Girls and Property Christmas Gala, which I'm so excited about. I literally spent all weekend just planning it and everyone who watches me plan this, they're like, Athena, do you really need that? And I'm like, yes, we absolutely need that. So I'm just planning this like, it's my wedding, even though I'm not married. I'm just like, let's just go for it. Let's just go all out. So I'm super excited about it. We've already got an incredible guest list all lined up. Haley, I think you're planning on potentially coming as well, aren't you? I am, yeah. So, yeah, so amazing stuff. And if you want to grab a ticket, just DM me the word gala, or if you want to ask any other questions, it's on Saturday, the 7th of December at Pendley Manor in Tring. And then I think, Hayley, you've got actually a Christmas party the week after, don't you, up in the North as well? Yeah, so we're doing Jingle and Mingle, which is Hard Hats to Heels, the developer network, Ming, which is Midlands Property Investor Network. and regional property meets and pin. We've all come together for one Christmas collaboration. Love that. So there's something for everyone. So if you're down in the South or you want to travel to the South on the 7th, get your bum down there where we'll see you. And then if you're up closer to the North, get yourself there. I think it's Saturday the 14th, the week after, isn't it? In Birmingham. In Birmingham. There you go. So fab. And then lastly, we spoke about mindset today. Just a reminder that I do have my free lifestyle mindset course that I offer as well, where I teach you all about mindset and give you some top tips and some worksheets and things to do. So if anybody needs a bit more help with that, just DM me the word mindset, we'll have a chat and I can get that across to you. And of course I do have my booking option or booking a free 30 minute call with me as well. Haley, thank you so much for coming on. I hope you really enjoyed it. I hope you have a fab week and yeah, hopefully see you at Christmas. but thank you again. Thank you very much. You're welcome, Hayley. You're welcome. Thank you. And ladies, thank you so much for listening. Have an absolutely wonderful Monday and me and Hayley will see you soon. All the best. then he can cut that. don't know where to let me just stop the recording. Hold on. Let me just go to pause or stop. Here we go. Stop. You sure you want to stop recording to the