The First 9 Months: Triumphs, Tribulations & Lessons with The Blonde Property Investor

In this unmissable episode, Athena sits down with Danielle Jolliffe, also known as the Blonde Property Investor, to dive into her inspiring journey in property investment. Danielle, who is just 9 months into her property journey, opens up about the challenges she's faced, the importance of personal growth, and the realities of navigating the property education space. She shares how this industry can be both rewarding and, at times, damaging — and how she's learned to navigate it with bravery and resilience.

In just under a year, Danielle has already raised over £1 million in private finance, and the conversation explores how she’s used social media to attract investors and grow her network. Athena and Danielle discuss the personal transformation that comes with stepping into property investment and the power of community and mentorship along the way.

Danielle's journey is a testament to courage, self-belief, and a desire to help others avoid the same pitfalls she encountered. This episode is full of valuable insights for anyone looking to take their first steps in property — or reflect on their own growth in the industry.

Don’t miss this powerful conversation full of tips, inspiration, and real talk about what it truly takes to succeed in property investment!

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. I hope everybody is doing great today. It is officially November. So I saw something really funny the other day where I saw that, obviously with my Disney obsession, that they literally overnight on the 31st of October went from having all of the Halloween decorations to the 1st of November having all the Christmas decorations. So we are now officially allowed to talk about Christmas, which is super, super exciting. so yeah, hopefully you've all got your tinsel out and ready to rock and roll with that. on today's podcast, I am so excited to introduce you to this incredible woman. I've wanted to get her on the podcast for ages. She is absolutely stunning and gorgeous, both inside and out and what I really deem to be a representation of what I think of when I think of women in property. So today I would love to introduce you to the blonde property investor, Danielle. Hey Danielle. Hello! what an introduction! Yes, I'm brilliant, are you? I am, I am. I am struggling a little bit with the weather at the moment. It's a bit doom and gloom. So a bit of sunshine would be nice, I ran about now. But we are... Christmas, exactly. Christmas is something else, it really is. And my God, the amount of baubles I brought back from Disney was ridiculous. I was like, yes. Christmas baubles everywhere. It's so good. I love that like little advert of Mariah where she goes from Halloween to Christmas because it's just my favorite time of year. Even though it's a bit miserable, I just think all the sparkles. So we have the Trafford Center near us and they've just like, it's all full of Christmas stuff already. It's just mad. What time, when do you put up your Christmas tree? I'll be putting it up at any time. November, because I go away on the 28th of December this year. So I feel like it comes down a little bit earlier than usual. it's, it within 14 days, is it after Christmas day that it's supposed to come down or it's bad luck? think so, I thought it was 12, but we'll go with 14. I don't know. So I like it up dead early and like making it, I don't know, just Christmas vibes and yeah, I love Christmas. I get excited. I love it. I love it. Me too. Me too. I was with some right humbugs the other day where they were like, I don't like Christmas. And I was like, just stay in your corner over there. I actually love shopping for people. love so all through the year, I actually like pick up little things what people say like or what they want or what they'd like. And I put it in my notes and then I go and get it just for the Christmas present. And I'm my God, I can't believe you remembered but I love doing things like that. Like giving is the best thing at Christmas. that. I was with one of my best friends for lunch the other day and she never does this. We were going shopping and she's like, I really like that and I really like that and I was like, are you just hinting at me like what you want basically? She's like, no. But yeah, subtly, very subtly. But you know what, I hate wasting money. I say to everybody at Christmas, I'm not wasting money, tell me what you would like or give me three things that you would like and I will pick one and just tell other people what I'm getting you. yeah, definitely. Although like when you get them presents, like I remember Lucas's mom bought us one, she just buy, she goes in TK Maxx and just buys like random shit. Like a pizza cutter. Like I don't even, we don't even have pizza. Like if we do, it's already cut. So why are you buying me a pizza cutter? Or this like walking stick with a horse's head on it. And I'm thinking, I'd have just rather had the vouchers, you know, so I can buy some cushions or things like that. Like why you buying me a horse's head walking stick? Like I'm never gonna use it. That is brilliant. That is so funny. You're gonna have to take that to an event. Literally you walking in with this horse stick. it though. It's in my vision though over there. just think why? Why is it there? I love that, my god, and I love how this conversation has completely derailed and detoured instantly. Christmas, yeah, Christmas, that's the vibe of this podcast. So Danielle, most people who listen to this podcast, I'm presuming already know you. However, if they don't know you, what I would love is for you to introduce yourself, tell everybody a bit about you, maybe your story, and something really interesting about yourself. Okay, so I started in property. I was dragged to an event, which that was in February. And I actually started my property journey probably beginning of March, end of February. In fact, it was the 22nd of February because 22 is my lucky number. So it's just weird that I actually started property on the 22nd, which I find... I'm all into like numbers and things like that. So I do believe it's fate. At the time I was probably a little bit lost. I left my teaching job August 23. I shut my salon down because I'm hair beauty and that's like my little creative side. I love all that. So, and I think it actually transcends into property because I like transformations. So. The transformation taking a dull blonde to a bright blonde and the transformation of taking a dull house to like a really bright vibrant house is probably the same. So yeah, I started then and it's been a roller coaster, I'll be honest. It's been April. I was learning, trying to absorb everything from, I didn't even know like how much anything cost, like nothing. So trying to learn the cost of a refurb. trying to learn how to source properties. And I was pushed down the deal sourcing route when I started because I had gone from having quite, you live to your means, don't you? And when you, I was earning good money and then I took like a complete, I'm that person that down tools. So when I'm done, I'm done. And I literally couldn't do anymore. I don't tool. So I wasn't having the income, but I've still got all the expenses, you know, cause I'm living to that lifestyle. And it was, it's a hard pill to swallow. And it has been a hard pill to swallow all year, I'll be honest, because you know, that girl that could just buy whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, when you've not got the cash flow, you do have to just rein it in and you know, be a bit mindful that bills and everything else. So we were living off. Lucas's wage, my partner. And yeah, I ended up being the face of Manchester. I obviously bought into education. That was my first thing. That's where I started, pushed down the deal sourcing route. I couldn't figure out why it wasn't for me, but it just wasn't like, now I actually understand why it wasn't for me is because they don't tell you that the investor is the most important part of the deal source. You know, not actually, you can source deals whenever, wherever, right move, you don't have to have off market all the time, but it was actually the investor that's the key part. And that was obviously because I think they don't want you to learn about the investor because they want the investor for them, some people. So. I then got the face of Manchester. I don't regret any of joining that education just because even though it wasn't a great experience, it elevated me and gave me a platform that I've kind of run with and utilized to my own like branding, pink, girly. It's put me in front of new faces. So. I ended up leaving there at the end of May and yeah, June was wild. June was like full of peaks and troughs, but the highest peaks and the lowest troughs. I was owed money because I ended up working for the educator. So I was owed a lot of money, like 10,000 pound we're talking. Now when you've actually had no income, it's a lot, you know, I'd already spent it. because I actually, all I actually wanted to do, I knew the date I was being paid and all I wanted to do was take Lucy, Lucas's little girl to Sephora had opened in the Trafford Centre and I just wanted to take her and just say there's under a quid go and do what you want because that, that for me even though we do treater and stuff I just wanted to do that because I've not been able to do it for so long with having nothing coming in And it honestly broke my heart because we couldn't do that because I was owed that money. It ended up, a granddad ended up doing it instead because she wanted to go when it opened, as they do. mean, what's up with makeup off a magazine? That's what I used to have. Now they're into horror and honest to God, it blows my mind. Like, what about that blue eyeshadow and concealer on your lips? All I wore blue eyeshadow, 100 % I was there. Yeah. no, she's into skincare and all this, know, drunk elephant. And I'm like, what's drunk elephant? I don't understand what all this is now. So, yeah, again, it was it was quite difficult that side of things. And it was a battle to get this money back as well. And in the background, I had joined AFPI. who are like the masters of raising finance and I'd actually raised finance while all this was going on. So it's quite difficult because one minute I was absolutely bawling my eyes out crying. Next minute I was riding high as I don't know what, like I can't believe what I've done. know, look, I've raised this. And it was a very draining time, I think. And I think now... it's took its toll on my body because I've been a bit run down and poorly but you don't realise what what it actually does subconsciously to you and yeah that's I've raised money I've raised finance now I've bought properties I've got four properties in legal as we speak three are HMOs it's mad I don't know I'm just loving it Yeah, and I love that. And just to be really clear for our listeners, how long have you been in property for full time doing this? Hold on, February, so March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, so nine months. nine months and that's what I really really want to show people is the fact that you know it's great to get people on this podcast who have got decades of the industry and it's great to learn from those people but what I think is so important for the listeners is to hear from somebody who's less than a year into their journey and achieved so much and you know I know that you've been through more than more than most with everything that happened to you the good the bad the ugly It's just. I think when, so COVID hit going back to then and the hair industry got hit, hair and beauty got hit the most. I was a director, so I didn't get any furlough again, quite a tough time. And when we come back, it was busy, but then once the rush had finished, people with inflation and you know, people being hit by COVID, they were, and obviously the trends now, you can have balayage and things like that. People are going a bit longer with the hair. They also want to look after the hair more. So they are leaving it longer so they're not over bleaching and things. And blondes were my thing. Like that's what I specialized in. So I niche down even when I was doing hair, blondes, extensions. And it meant getting more customers. And I think the niche I was targeting was quite young. And again, it's where that money's coming from, isn't it? So I knew, and I have quite a good sense of when to get out. And I actually, loved my little salon. I've still got it now, because I turned that, that was my first, I turned my first actual property, I turned from commercial to residential, which now I know is one of the hardest strategies to do. because I didn't even know like you had to have planning permission to turn windows back smaller and you know, like little things that you just oversee. But yeah, probably back then, nobody will realize how lost I actually was because I am confident when I'm in my lane. And you know, I was very like, I don't know what to do. I'm 36 at the time. And I was like, My career's ended, I don't wanna teach anymore. But then it's very confusing, because I have all these qualifications. So how am I just sat here on my ass not doing anything? Do you know what I mean? So at that time, didn't know, I had the drive to want to do something, because that's me. But then where, what do I do? I didn't know which direction to go in. And you know what, I hear this from so many of my mentees. I hear this from so many women who get in contact with me from the podcast who say the exact same thing to me, Danielle. They're like, look, I am a very driven person. I have my own business or I'm very high up in my corporate career. I now want to build wealth through property or a business. I just don't know how to do it. And I think to myself, well, it's because you don't have the right education. how are you supposed it's like trying to take. a maths exam without actually have done any classes. It's like, well, of course you don't know how to answer your maths exam. You don't, it's because you haven't learned anything. And so you probably are the type of person, similar to myself actually, because my background of course is travel, not property, where both during COVID, we knew we had to get out of our industries. And when we both are very driven people, we know we can put our mind to anything. What is it we want to do? And then property of course comes along, which It's definitely a roller coaster 100 % as easy as what people make out. You know, they say, yeah, you get the rent and you know, it just pass a thing, come, ba da da. And I just think, wow, you liars. keep saying, passive my arse. And you know these 90 day, get rich in 90 day schemes. I'm like, nope, nope, nope, doesn't happen. Danielle, I've got so many questions I wanna ask you, but before I do, just before I forget, because it's one of my favourite bits of the podcast, can you talk about something you're celebrating at the moment? Celebrating, I am celebrating. the fact that I've actually got four HMOs and I've hit my target for this quarter was obviously the main quarter for me. And I wanted four HMOs before Christmas and before the first of November, I have them. So I am absolutely. celebrating, screaming it because it's not that I didn't think I'd be able to do it, but I like over, I don't know, do you know like over setting myself so then I can work to it. My goals are always probably not unrealistic, but very out there. So yeah, that's what I've done. I've got three in legal, one should be completing soon. I've got one at the moment already that's been ripped out. and we're waiting for the floors to go back in. So I am celebrating that because yeah, I've been put on a ban at the minute. I'm not allowed to buy anymore right now. Who's giving you that ban? I, well Lucas for one, Justin is another, cause I wanted to go down the HMO route. So I ended up signing up with, Justin in grey, because I think the important things to do when you go into property, there's so many strategies and not one is right and not one is wrong. It's what you like doing. So I found that I loved transfer transformations, but I also need the cashflow because that is important as well and difficult in property. So I thought HMOs. So I found somebody who specializes in HMOs. That's all he does. And yeah, I mean, I've ended up with four in seven weeks. So, mad. So quick question for you on those ones. So my first question is, is with those four, are any of them joint ventures? Is it where you've just set them up for the actual investor? Are any of them completely yours and it's a loan agreement? What's the structure like on them? So they are joint ventures. I have a very, very good investor that has given me such a massive opportunity and believed in me and trusted me to do this. have no, so they are essentially your perfect investor. They are a time poor, but cash rich. And I have the knowledge to bring to it. I have the properties to bring to it. And again, that's a mindset shift. that you have to know what you're bringing even though they're bringing the money. So we've gone in joint venture 50-50, we've got bank account together and yeah, we sat down actually the other day, had a meeting just to, I am a planner, I am the most organized human. So I decided like, I wanted to know what 2025 was looking like from their point of view. and yeah we're aiming to do four every quarter next year. Wow, I love that. And a quick question on that. So you've been in property full time, nine, know, nine, 10 months. So sometimes I might speak to people who would think after nine to 10 months, I don't have enough knowledge to be able to get an investor or I don't have enough experience to be able to get one. So how did you go about actually securing such an incredible investor for yourself? I think you have to look around you first and foremost. I have actually got four investors off Instagram. So your social media presence is so key and is branding. So I... I've always loved pink. I'm very girly. And I think, you know, your social media, my social media definitely represents me. In fact, I sent an invoice to someone the other day, who he forwarded it on to somebody who doesn't, I don't know. And the response was, is this the blonde property investor off Instagram? Because my invoice is pink. It's got love hearts on says thank you, you know, it's just very me. So I do think social media, it's free. And if you're not doing it, do it, everything. So this is content right here now. Like I went on the podcast, blah, blah, blah, talk about it. That is a posting itself. Feel like people overcomplicate it. know, everything that you do is a post. So that was first what I did firstly. I actually posted on socials, then put it on socials about wanting and attracting investors. ended up having like quite a few people message, but I do a call and just make sure that their values align with me and that we have the same ethics to work together because that is really important to me. then I decided to look closer around me. So these are family friends and they're actually Lucas's mum and dad's friends. So I knew that She was a very, very good business woman in the corporate world and that he had his own business as well. So, you know, what have you got to lose? You've got everything to gain in my opinion. And it's no problem if they don't, but they might. And what if that might turns into what it has like, wow. And I'm so, you know what? I was absolutely petrified because it's no mean feat asking someone. The first time I went, I asked for £265,000. I like, that's just crazy. Like I don't even ask people for a tenner. So to ask someone for that amount of money is mad. But I made sure that I knew what security they had so that their money was protected, so that they knew it was protected. I made sure that I was very clear on how it would go. And yeah. that I think it's just having the knowledge of knowing what the investor gets. And it's not difficult. It's just making sure that you're not doing anyone wrong because I see so many people with JVs and things like that. And it's all they say it's JVs and it's not, it's a loan agreement that's not, not even worth the paper it's written on, you know, because they back it up with a PG. And again, you know, your personal guarantee, your PG is only good if you have assets. like we know but you only know what you know so that's the thing isn't it Yeah. And you've said it beautifully yourself, which is that, you know, you've had to go the hard way and learn yourself in situations that hasn't just been a straight road for you. It's been a squiggly road and that that's also okay. And I love the fact that you're on this podcast saying, do you know what? I've been in the industry for less than a year and I've managed to secure. I think I saw on a post the other day, wasn't it close to like a million you've managed or over, was it over a million? How much have you managed to raise? Well, for every quarter next year comes to about five million plus what I've done this year, which is I 1.2 this year. And you know, when you, I find this really interesting, like, you know, when you originally asked for that 265,000 and you were like, that's my first one and can I do it? And while they say yes, I bet now you sit there and you're like, I need 265,000 or I need 500,000 and you don't even blink. Like for me, that happened to me. I remember the first time I ever got my first investor and I was like, I need like 120 and this is how we're going to do it. And now I'm just like, right, okay, you see this? Yeah, yeah, probably about 300. And then this. And I don't even blink. And if they say no, I'm like, there's absolutely no problem. Do you know anyone else who'd be interested? don't even, there's like, obviously there's an emotion behind it, but it's so black and white that it's, it's fascinating. And even quite frankly, even sometimes, you know, back in the day when you sell yourself, you know, I'm, I'm obviously a teacher. I'm a mentor myself. And when I originally started mentoring, I was like, and the price is like this much and yeah, this is why you should go with me. And now I'm just like, yep, the price is this. I don't even need to tell you why to go with me because you kind of already know. And that's just it. And I literally just stand there and the people that come to me are great and the people that don't don't and that's absolutely fine. And it's fascinating how we evolve as humans, I feel, within ourselves and the confidence. And I've watched you blossom, which is lovely. think I listen to it, I have said this, and I say it quite a lot to people, I listen to a Daniel Priestley podcast and I am that geek, I am a really bad geek. listen to podcasts, I go back, I listen to It Made Notes, I go back, I listen to that three, four times, just because I am that person that, you know, I am academic and I like being a bit of a nerd. And he said something that sticks in my mind. And it will do forever about with or without your energy. And that is something I didn't realize in my 36 years of being that I had, but I know I have it now. And it's an aura that you have that you give off, which you will give off as well. So it's, I'm going to do this with or without you. Are you on or are you not? You know, and that's kind of like how, so the meeting I had last week with them, I did a presentation. I put some figures together, but Are you interested? Is this what you want to do? What's it looking like for you? If not, that's absolutely fine. Do you know anyone else? And obviously I think as well, when you have investors like the investors I have, they are also connected to so many more wealthy people. So it's not about, I feel cheeky asking them because my loyalty will always lie with them. You know, it will because they've given me such a massive opportunity. So I will always go to a with a deal to them, like HMO, that's the route they want to go down. So do you want it? Well, like you said before, if not, have you got anybody that does? And I think it's just having, it's not being arrogant or it's just being straight and knowing your worth as well, knowing what you bring to the table. but I think they will invest in you if you have that confidence. I certainly wouldn't invest in somebody if they didn't believe in themselves. And you can see it in the eyes. I think it's all in the eyes of, you know, are you able to look me in the eye and talk to me and tell me that this is a good deal? If you're looking away or you're looking, you're not so confident, then I'm not confident. So I think it comes down to sales. Like my background, of course, is sales from when I was working in the travel industry and yours, of course, is sales. selling your products within the hairdressing industry. And I think that really there are so many transferable skills and I try and tell the listeners and tell so many people that, like, what are your transferable skills that you are now bringing into this? You're not coming in with nothing. You're coming in with so much more than you realize. I have so many questions I want to ask you, but before I do that, before I forget, I'm just going to talk about what I'm celebrating at the moment before I forget that. And then I've got a bazillion questions to ask you about this. So what am I celebrating? I'm celebrating the fact at the moment that because the weather is so horrible and there have been so many things that have happened sort of personally here regarding my car and situations, I'm now just gonna get away for a bit and get some sunshine. So I'm going away with my mum. Shock to everyone that I'm going away with my mum. Me and her just like literally like, right, where are we going next? So we're gonna go to Mexico next week for 10 nights. And what's fascinating is I was talking to somebody about this the other day and they said to me, they were like, you're always away. They're like, didn't you just get back? And I'm like, yeah. I'm just like, yeah. But what they don't, what they don't realize is, is that I can take my laptop with me. I, I've now, and you're probably exactly the same. I've now built a life where I literally can work from anywhere in the world. I just need a laptop and a mobile phone. That's, that's all. And wifi, of course, that's all I need. And what's so, Yeah. used to be something called, in my old job, used to be called a Take Two. like that's what used to be called, you had to put your phone status on take two, which meant that you needed two minutes out for not taking a call. So you did a take two. And that was to go, honestly, this was my life for seven years, Danielle. So you had to like do a take two and that was if you wanted to go get a drink, if you wanted to go and go to the toilet. And if you went over like five minutes, they'd be like, hey, can you take a call? Like they used to be like a little internal messaging system, like hey, can you take a call? So when I now celebrate the fact that I no longer have that and I'm traveling the world and I'm working from anywhere and definitely nobody does a take two on me anymore, except myself. I'm celebrating that like that is so important. And I even remember when I was doing as listeners will know, I would talk about this all the time on the podcast. You know, in the first two years of my property business, I believed that to be successful, you had to sit at a desk and not move for nine hours a day. And that was my vision of what success used to look like. So Steve would be like, should we go for a quick 10 minute walk? And I'm like, no, no, no, I have to, I have to work. I have to get these out. And he's like, you can afford 10 minutes. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. If I take 10 minutes, what if something happens? What if the world implodes? And it's actually taken me two years to realize that I don't need to do that. And I can go to LA and I can go to Mexico. And we've just booked Egypt for next year. And it's like, I can go, I can go. And I am solar powered by the sunshine. I think I'm an alien because I have a battery in my body and that battery is charged with solar energy. I'm just a happier person in the sunshine. I'm a nicer person in the sunshine. I just love it. So I'm gonna celebrate such a key change in myself where I don't even recognize myself to two years ago. And I just think it's such a beautiful thing to say to others, you know, it's okay if you're at the start of your journey and you're trying to do that, but just know that you know, get up, go for a walk, go do something. It's just such a healthier way to be. It really is. And the world won't implode. just, I think from, I think this stems from school as well. Obviously my teaching, the inside of me will always be a teacher. So I am passionate and that's the reason why I left because it wasn't teaching anymore. It was babysitting and that's not me. But I think it comes from school to actually, you don't have to be sat at desk and you don't have to exchange a product for money. So that's something that I've really struggled with this last nine months is I've done everything that I'm doing and I'm doing the role that I need to do in my business. Lucas is obviously the builder, which is a good combo to have, but then he gets paid for what he does, but I don't. I don't get a check, I don't get paid. So sometimes when you get in your own head and I talk about the chimp, because I listen to the chimp's paradox, I love the paradox. Yeah. And I've read it, reread it recently. I've read it so many times, but I've reread it because I was getting in my head a little bit. You know, I'm not doing enough. I'm, you know, and I think it is that exchange for, well, you've done something, there's, there's your pay. You know, you don't get that with property. It's... The pay is the freedom that you create to be able to work anywhere. That is your pay. You know, as well as obviously the money coming in for to pay your bills and everything, but that gives you the freedom. And that's sort of such a hard concept to get your head around because we all beat ourselves up as well that we're not pulling our weight. We need to do more. We need to be sat at the desk. I need to do this. I can't go for a run. Whereas now I actually get into a routine and I think that is key. You have to be successful. You have to be in a good routine. know, exercise, you know, I love my running. So exercise is key. Like you say, going for a walk at dinner or just breaking the day up. You are allowed to come away from a desk. Yeah, exactly. absolutely love that routine is key. That's something that I lacked massively when I first started out. And I think having that routine is perfect. And, and yeah, I just think it's just so important to show that, you know, you're running, for example, you know, that that's showing and also a dedication to what to what you do and that you haven't lost almost your identity with trying to build up your business. You've kept your who you the core of who you are. And I was talking to somebody about this the other day, actually, because I'm probably going to take longer, I reckon, to, which is absolutely fine, to become this sort of six-figure, seven-figure business owner. And when I first started out, I thought that was the end goal. I thought that's what I wanted to achieve. And it's not actually. I want to be healthy getting there. And if it takes me a year longer to become a six-figure business owner, because I decided to actually take time off as opposed to just killing myself doing it. Mindset's so important. And I, again, I always go back to the running because running... It's not about how physically fit you are, it's how mentally fit you are to be able to stop the little demon, the little chimp from telling you your legs are hurting, you can't do it, you're out of breath, all this. It is a mindset thing, you know, to do, I do marathons. So the marathon, at the end of the marathon, it's all about the battle with the mind. And again, in property, in life, to be successful and to triumph and overcome diversity and everything else. It's about the mind. So mindset is something that's really not focused on because we all think we need to be physically fit and we can be physically fit and we're balling in our jobs and all this that and the other. But if you're not working on the mental side, the mental will always overrule because it's, as we know, the chimp is the emotional side and that is the stronger part of the brain. Definitely, absolutely. I love the fact you do marathons. I hate running, Danielle. I'm not a runner. Never have been, never will be. I get bored. I get really bored running. My brain just takes over. You know you talk about the brain. I exercise to relax, to do something different. And when I'm running, I feel like my brain just keeps talking to me about everything, all my lists I've got to do. Whereas when I'm working out with weight training, I'm focusing on my form. I'm focusing on looking in the mirror. It's my back in the position, my arms in the position. And so it takes my focus away. But you're so right. Like I was in the gym the other day and I don't know, like in my first set, I clearly just wasn't feeling it. And I lifted the same amount of weight that I always lift, but I was like, okay, this is, this is heavy. Why is this heavy? This is weird. And then I had to almost psych myself up for the second round to go, you can do this way, like stop it. Like, what are you doing? And then the second set I was absolutely fine and I was like, what the hell was that? So you're so right. think you would love running. I think you would if you actually went into a race because the feed that you get from the crowd, that energy, a good race like one where this, they do a Disneyland one, the Disneyland half marathon. now you're talking my language. like to run round Disney or to run round where these like people like we do Manchester that was my very first one. And honestly these people everywhere and they're screaming like your bib name and honestly you would love it. Your personality you would 100 % love it. I feel like I'm more of a sprinter than than I'm doing a marathon, you know, but you said the word Disney So I am gonna have a look at it and think I think maybe I could do that and dress up as a character or something Yeah Hilarious right watch this space guys. We're gonna do a girl. my god. We could do a girls in property Marathon. should we just go for 10k first? Maybe just 10k Okay but there'll be more people than you realize actually run and would actually jump on it. well, I tell you what, I'm honestly the worst runner in the world. It's not my thing. So if people can convince me, let's do 10K. And I'll just be like, I'll be like, right, here we go again. I'm going to do something else. Girls in prophecy will take over part run. We can do 5k at first. Do a good 5k. Okay. no, no, no, no, no, no, we'll go straight in a 10. We'll be like, we'll be like, let's just go do 10. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. So let's just do 10. And then we'll do the marathon after that. Right, Danielle, we have detoured completely. So back on track again. But that's why I love these, these, these podcasts, particularly with people like yourself, because it's just so much fun. It just is. And it shows that we are so much more, like I talk about this all the time. We are so much more than just, do property, I do business, I do this. You're like, no. Yes. So quick question for you. So sometimes I'll get some messages from people starting out or not even starting out sort of in their journey who are now looking towards property education and thinking, I know I need to get educated. I have a certain amount of funds available. I don't want to go too crazy because it's all I've got. And how do I know who to trust in the industry? Now, you'll know as well as I do that this industry is not regulated in any way, shape or form. And, you know, unfortunately, there are lots of things that can happen. Within that, we can only represent ourselves and we can only advise to people based on our knowledge. That's all we can do. And a lot of the times the girls will say, Athena, I need you to point me in the right direction of who to trust. So when you first started and you needed to get educated, I think what, I think... Now, I, so I went with, am I allowed to say? Yeah, so I, yeah, I'm not bothered. I'm not bothered now. So I went to the event, which was the Property Circle and Stephen Hamilton. Now I think what drew me at that point was the rags to riches story, know, council estate, this, that, the other, and then what he's got or. what he says he has. Now at that point, the word due diligence was non-existent for me. So, and I think to myself, God, you're so stupid. Like, you know this, but everyone does it, you know? And I think I'd always say don't buy out of emotion. Good educators never, never, never have an event like that where they have an upsell. So I have the ick with upsells. So you're in my property WhatsApp group and I am so strict because it honestly, because I obviously went working for him after seven weeks of being there, I've just got the ick with an upsell because I just think it's always like, how much more can we squeeze out of that person? So we've sold them one thing, can we squeeze another bit out of that lemon? And literally he treats him as if you're all lemons. Like he treated me like I was a lemon, like no brain. And I think anybody who actually has a brain and has good compass values will see through him eventually. You might not do it at the start, but things just don't add up right. And they don't sit right. Things that are being said, calling people. that you've took money off and you're calling them, like personally as well. Things like that, things that, you you're not, you're selling something that's not finished. So I found the university course wasn't finished at the time. And I can only go up to the end of May because obviously that's when I left. Again, that doesn't sit right with me, you know, making out that you're the hardest worker ever and you're not, you know, you're off. trying to manipulate your next favorite person because they have something that you want, whether that be, there's one guy that lives around me and he does rent to rent and he's quite good on his TikTok and he's quite good on his socials. And I remember him saying, like, we need to get him like on board. And I just thought, ooh, like that is not how you work. don't, essentially for want of a better word, it's like grooming. And that's not nice, you know, and it's just, again, I just, it was not for me. I think you've got to not be told, like I said before, I was told about deal sourcing because we go back to the point I was vulnerable. Now, a lot of people in them rooms were all vulnerable for one reason or another. We're vulnerable because we want a better life for our kids. We're vulnerable because we might not have any money coming in like me. That's obviously a... the other end of the spectrum. But in some way, we all want to improve ourselves and we go in them rooms and put ourselves in them rooms because we want a better life. So for somebody to take advantage of that, take the money and just see, suss out what you're worth, how much money you've got, if you can be the next JV, which is not what he does at all. He does loan agreements. unsecured ones as well and I just think to myself like that's just not the sort of person that I want to be around. Yeah, but I love that you, I think you're incredibly brave. I think you're really brave. And the fact that, you know, I sometimes have these conversations with a lot of people because, you know, I have a level of responsibility with girls in property. I really do. And I take that very seriously. And I know a lot of things. I know a lot of things within the industry. And sometimes I find you very brave, Danielle, because you've actually spoken out and you've outed it you've actually named the person. Whereas sometimes I get people who... are outing it, but they're not comfortable to name the person because of defamation cases and all sorts of things. And so I think you're incredibly brave. And I think that you are a true representation. Again, I'll repeat myself of what I deem to be just such a strong, amazing woman in this industry. And it's such a shame because I obviously, I've watched your journey from the beginning and I saw you and I was like, who is that girl? I was like, I am keeping one eye on her. She's great. And you, he's, anything, he's actually a bit silly really, because you were like one of his best assets. You really were, like you were everywhere. You were promoting him, you you're stunning. So obviously that gets a lot of attention, you know, for all the right reasons. I mean that as a compliment. And yeah, I just think, I just think, but at the same time, I think it's the best thing that ever happened to you. And I'm sure you'll agree with this because you've now literally stepped out into your own spotlight. Like your story's ish similar to mine but slightly differently where I felt I had to business partner with a lot of people when I first started and I almost felt I had to stand in their shadow because something within me felt like they were better than me and I wasn't good enough to stand in my own spotlight whereas now girl I am standing there on my own and I am proud as anything I'm like this is this is me and I feel like you've now come into your spotlight and you're now doing events, you're now doing over millions pound investments, like it was such a harrowing thing that happened to you and I don't wish it upon you, anyone, but I also felt like it's made you who you are to this day. So. I think the one thing that he definitely did was underestimate me. And because the person that walked into that event room in February was very quiet, I am very quiet, I am very shy until I get to know you. But you know, so you'll see, mate, when I come to the gala, we'll talk about it later, mate, but when I come there, I'll be very shy at first and then I'll get in my comfort zone. Cause I am quite like that, you know, the confidence isn't there. I'm confident in what I do, who I am and what I stand for. But in a massive room, that's like quite intimidating for me. But what he did was he thought that person in February was the same person. when I started to grow and get my confidence back. And that was his biggest mistake. In terms of the defamation and things, what I'm saying, I have every bit of evidence. I've got voice recordings, I've got screenshots, because listen, I didn't trust the guy. So anything that I'm saying, I have things to back up with. And I think that's sometimes where people can be a bit intimidated by people like him. his presence on social media, his presence on YouTube. Yeah, it's big. It's a lot bigger than mine, but it's not real. you know, unfortunately, only takes, what's that saying where it only takes one person to make a movement. I'm not saying, I'm telling my journey. So if that comes with a backlash, then that comes with a backlash at the end of the day, I did nothing wrong, you know. I, I, and people knew that and that was why it was really important for me to leave on a high at the end of May because I did seven weeks where I was doing everything he said, any opportunity I went to Birmingham, you know, he said, any opportunity to get to be around me, be around me. So I was, Lucas was like, this is your chance. I'll like, you can shine here. I was doing everything. So I was trying to take it all in any webinars, what you did. was on. Like I didn't miss a beat, like not a beat. I was posting on socials just like he said. Then I got offered the opportunity to do Manchester, Be The Face. I met him at Manchester and he offered me a job. Well, for me, I've got no income coming in. This was like a breakthrough. So like, wow, like I can earn. I've got, you know, it takes the pressure off Lucas as well. There was so much more on my shoulders that people don't realize. And it was a massive opportunity for me. Now from that point, I actually did nothing in property, like not a sausage because I was then events coordinator. I was looking after like the people who bought the tickets for the events. And at the time I genuinely, genuinely, hand on heart believed that he was who he said he was. So when we were going to events and we were selling the courses, I was like, God, he's great. we do this and again, I'd not been around enough to know and that's probably my biggest regret is, and I still have, I think the reason why I'm so transparent is because I have a guilty conscience that I sold courses on behalf of him to innocent people. I was innocent also, I didn't do it on purpose, but I still feel. responsible for that, that they spent their money. Yeah, but you can't, you can't feel that guilt, Danielle, like there's nothing you can do. You can only do it with the best intentions that you have. And for example, I have my own situation of that where I went and recommended some people to go and work with some individuals that I thought were good people. And unfortunately, it turned out that they weren't good people. I had no idea. Like I am, I just go with what I know through and through. can't, we can't, we can't know everything and we can't... Like we can only go with our gut and sometimes our gut can be wrong. And we can only do our best, which is why, to be honest with you, you know, back in the day, you know, when I was going through all of this, a lot of people were saying to me, Athena, can you recommend people that I should go training with? Can you recommend groups that I should follow? Can you recommend this? So, and I was doing that. I was sending all of these women and men to all these places. And then they come back and say, this wasn't what I thought it would be. And I go, my God, like what have I done? So then I decided to create my own community. I decided to create my own events. I decided to create my own courses because I know the quality of the work that they then get. And I know that I can sleep with a conscience to say, you paid for something and you've got the value for it. And I want to give a shout out to your community, actually, you your WhatsApp group that you've got. What's the name of it again? Just remind me it's the property community or something. community WhatsApp because I've literally started that because I got kicked out of his education. Even though he owed me money, which was my wage. And then because of how it ended, he then kicked me out of the education. And I was like, I'm lost. Like I need some something because... Although Lucas has all the building knowledge, I think it's all the paperwork side of things, know, the valuations, et cetera, that you still need that support. So I was like, I'm just going to start WhatsApp group, started it. And it's got like, again, this is another mind blowing thing, like over 250 people in, which is just mad. And it's got like big people in, it's got yourself, it's got like Nick Smith, 369 developers in it. It's got... Jason Patterson, honestly, like the people in it, it's just mind blowing, mind blowing. you know, the advice that they give in that group is fantastic. It's literally like free education. Like I saw somebody put something about a lease option question the other day and obviously Jason, who is the king of lease options, answered it perfectly. And I was like, this is a fantastic community group. So I think you should be so proud of that. And again, you are all about no upselling in this group, none of that. And yeah, I just think it's perfect what you've created with it. something, so somebody posted an Instagram post the other day and I just delete it straight away because can you imagine if 250 people posted our own Instagram post? One, you're only doing it for self gain. It's a kind of way of upselling because you're upselling yourself. I just deleted it straight away. I people are like waiting for me to, Danielle, delete it. Danielle kicked out. see now I'm just like Daniel can I post this? I allowed to do this? You know? lot of people ask because I just want to keep it high value, like you said, with them sort of questions. And if you start posting, like, I don't mind events and stuff like that because I feel like as long as it's not one of them events that I've been to, but you know, as long as there's no upsell, like I'm good. I think it's just trying to keep that value high so people don't, you know, disengage with the group and that, you know, for newbies especially, Even if you don't want to say anything at first, it's there for you to say something if you want or read, you know, what's going on and find something. Ask about educators in there. I'm absolutely fine with that as well if, you know, not everybody is brave enough, are they? But, you know, if you want to ask about things, where do I get started? Ask in that group. That's what it's there for. So, yeah, definitely one of my little proud little babies, my group. Yeah, and I just can't wait to see your journey. I really can't. I just think you've achieved so much in such a short space of time. I'm fascinated to see what you will be like November 2025 and you'll be a different person again, like you will. You'll be like, do you remember that podcast we did? I've changed again. And I'm the same. I'm like, yeah, I've changed again. And it's important to change and evolve. My final question for you just before we talk about your property disaster. is, and I'm really interested in this, particularly with yourself actually to ask this question, is I don't know personally how you have found this for yourself. You're a very glamorous individual. You've got gorgeous hair, gorgeous face, you dress beautifully. How do you feel that you have been seen within the industry in such a male dominated industry in terms of raising finance or working with people? Have you had any... stories where maybe they've seen you not seriously or any stories where they've seen you more, let's just face it, let's just talk real here, more in a sexual way as opposed to actually a business way, like what has your experience been? I've had a few things. So I remember going to an event and at the end, you know, when you stand up and say like, hi, I'm the Blonde Property Investor, da da da. So I went to a networking event and said like, and I've raised, I think I'd raised 300,000 at that point. Like I've raised 300,000 and da da da. So these two guys at the end come up to me and said that I didn't think you were serious. I'm bearing in mind, I had no pink on at this point, but I did have. like a white top with some like pants, black pants on. And my hair was down like all waved. I literally just washed it for a change, you know. Because usually it's like this, which has got like, it's slapped down with my run sweat this morning, you know, let's just be real. You know, so I just thought, wow, I can't believe that he said that what didn't take you serious. And I thought, Is this what people actually say? But I think for me, my Instagram's pink. I'm a very pink girl. I like bright colors, not just pink. like anything bright. Again, my running outfits are bright. I am that person. I just think, you know what? The right people will accept it. The right people will invest. accepting that I like pink and that I am me because I'm not anything different to what you see on Instagram. So if you meet me in person, I'm exactly the same. You know, again, I might be a bit shy at first, but when you get talking to me, I'm just like this. And my Instagram represents a very true real side of me. I have had, you got, is the boss around? And I was like, hon, I am the boss, you know. I'm the one in charge of the money. I'm the one in charge of transferring your wage and stuff, know, for whatever we've had done. So again, I don't know. think, you know, people slide into the DMs and, know, at first, but then I think as well, because my Instagram is very me and Lucas isn't shown on the Instagram. And that's not for any other reason other than. it's just about my journey, you I do show him, I mention him every now and again. I think sometimes that kind of doesn't help the situation. yeah, yeah. But again, you know, we're actually, we've spoken about it over the weekend, we're investing into more YouTube because I want people to see. I want people to see me flying high, but I also want people to see me absolutely bawling my eyes out sometimes where it's very real. And I'm very nervous about showing that side, but I think it's really important to show everything. So again, that's a little bit what we're trying to level up, know, and invest some money into that side of things. But... In terms of male industry, I just think it is what it is. Like I'll match your energy. Whatever energy you come at me with, I will come straight back at you with. So, and I actually get on with all the labs now. Like we have working for us and stuff and we have the right people, like the electricians, they know not like the subcontractors, they just know not to like mess around because I will, Lucas is the soft one. Like he's the one that won't. come down hard and I'm like, no, we have to have it done for this date because it's a business at the end of the day. And I think females are a lot better at organizing than males naturally. So, you know, we all need a female that's a strong female in our life that can organize things. So don't discount us. Definitely not, my god. You're part, obviously, of the girls and property community and we are a force to be reckoned with. There are strong women, really strong women. And I think what's happening actually is the ladies who maybe are not, I don't want to say not, they're learning to believe in themselves a bit more, I think is the right way to say it. Because strength comes in different ways. Just because they might be quiet, it doesn't make them less strong. They're quietly strong. know, they're the ones you should keep an eye on, the quiet ones. So I love it. I love it. And just to finish off this podcast then, Danielle, can you tell us about so far, like I appreciate it's only been a short space of time. So, and I know you've already spoken about the situation with Steen stuff, but have you ever had like a house sort of property disaster or property mishap that you've had to go through? Even the window situation, you know, the commercial to Rezzy, ridiculous. that is, yeah, that is something that I was gonna say. So for me, your architect is one of your power team. I don't think I've obviously heard of that, but I'd not understood it fully until we did that commercial to Resy and now we're doing the HMOs and obviously the architect is God at this point, you know. So when we did the commercial to residential, we had an architect recommended to us, very professional, come across very well, but we didn't know him. He was just an architect. And you actually think architects are all the same. That is wrong. They're not. And he caused us so much issues because the commercial to resi, he put it under permitted and it wasn't permitted. It needed to go through planning. which is 12 weeks, we're under Wigan council, which are an absolute ball ache to be under. I know all councils are bad, but Wigan just seemed to be horrific. 12 weeks and then, and then, and then when he was actually doing it, so I was CC'd into the emails, the actual council were telling him what to put. And I thought to myself, wow. I said to Lucas like, cannot deal with him. He is doing my head in. We're paying a professional to do a job and he's causing us. So he ended up causing us. We'd already remortgaged the property on a buy to let mortgage. And he caused us to, for us to pay two months because we couldn't have a tenant in it because of the amount of time. So it took all in all 24 weeks to sort that out. I know. my God, just by going with the wrong architect. architect. So yeah, again, now we've recommended, we've been recommended architects for the HMOs. So these are just like next level, next level. They do all the putting the planning in and they do the drawings and to get the most out of the space. And honestly, it's a love. I actually love being on site at the minute because I'm loving learning like the HMO we've just ripped out. It's got, it's had all the flaws out, everything. It's just a shell, which I love it. Yeah, I do. I love learning. Yeah. Yeah. and what are you doing in they like three to six bed what what what's the transformation bed and another one that is in legal at the minute, that's gonna be a seven. So I'm actually going into like sewage and which I've not actually, I didn't plan to do. I plan to do six beds and get like the experience of the valuations on the other end and remortgaging. But this seven bed just come along and we're just in and I trust just in implicitly so. I think he's great at what he does. We have a mentoring call every week and yeah, he's guiding me through. I don't actually ever envisage me leaving him because I do think he is a lot of money, but I think like him, one HMO pays for him. Yeah. And this is the thing. This is the thing. Like it's all about investing in yourself. And I love the fact that also I should say you did get stung really, really badly and lost quite a lot of money, but you still didn't let that put you off. You still said, I know there is good in this industry. I know that there is, there is good. you trusted another guy to be that person you were hoping Steve was going to be in a way. And now you've done it and you actually really like this guy and that's fantastic. And I always say with mentoring also, and I say this to everybody is, you have to have such a good relationship with your mentor because it's so personal, it's so one-to-one. Mentoring is so different to going and learning in a classroom. It's about the person really understanding you. And as a mentor, have to be able to feel like we can teach you and we can get on with you as well as you might think that about us. And I've sometimes had calls with people. where I have absolutely said to them, I don't think this relationship is the right relationship. I don't think I'm the right person for you. I think you're better off with this person. but that comes on values and stuff and that just doesn't transpire from education. That is exactly how I am with investors as well. So when investors come on, know, I'm quite upfront first and foremost on a message. And then when we do get, know, if you do have the liquid funds available and I do ask that direct question because I don't want to waste anyone's time. There's all mine, but then we get on a Zoom call and if I'm getting like that energy that you're just not okay with like where I want and I don't think we can work together right, then you could have the unlimited amount of funds but it's not right for me and us. So you can go and invest it with someone else that aligns with you. And that is again, is that with or without you like sometimes things are just not right and it's not, it doesn't mean because the money's there. like with the education, like with the investor, just you have to take it. You do have the right to say no and that's okay as well. And do your due diligence and as you said earlier, don't just rush with emotion. Think about it, take your time, but also don't overthink it would be my advice. If you know it's the right decision, go for it. So give yourself permission to jump. I have loved this podcast. I can't wait for the listeners to hear it. It's just been so much fun and really, really like out there. It's the first time I've ever had a conversation where someone has been really so open in saying, do you know what? You want a name? Here's your name. And I'm going to make a change to this industry. And I have full respect for you for doing that. Full, full respect. And I will support you in whatever you want to do going forward and champion you all the way. Cause I think you're one to watch. I really do. going to, I'm going to, I'm going to watch you closely. No, I think you're great. I think you're absolutely great. And I can't, I can't wait for you to meet all of the, girls because you're coming to the gala aren't you in december yay i'm so excited for my outfit. I'm thinking glittery. I'm thinking pink. Yes, yes, I'm here for it. Do it all, like literally do it all. I keep saying to the girls, it's the dress that sits at the back of your wardrobe that you maybe wore once that you've never worn again because you don't have an event that you can wear it to. That's the dress to wear. Like we never get a chance as women to dress up to the nine. This is your moment, this is your chance. Like have fun, come as authentically you, but if you wanna get glammed up, do it. But just make sure you can dance. Like you have to be able to dance. That's my only request. I'm not having anybody sitting down. You're on the dance floor. I can pull my leg, you know, like where they pull the leg around this. I can do that. Do a bit of this move. Perfect, but you know what the guest this is honestly on fire like over this weekend I had so many of the girls come from being like I'm in I'm coming I've got my outfit I've got the kids, you know cares sorted Or Santa date change like it's it's just brilliant. So I'm just like yes, like it is all coming together So yeah Like for women, like we have to all like, I'm Lucas has Lucy's she's 11 though, but like it's, difficult to organize childcare and keep everyone happy, the household happy. And I think as you get older, like my ideal night out is a meal, you know, essentially we don't go out out anymore, but when we go out with the girls, it's just a pure vibe but there's not in the property world anything that we can get really glam glam for anymore. So yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be good it's gonna be nice. excited. of women. And do you know the thing I've actually found, just because you've been so raw and authentic in this podcast, I want to do the same as well, which is I've found, if I'm completely honest with you, the gala to be a little bit tricky around Christmas time, because what I'm finding is I decided to put this event on just for women, to support women, because it's the Girls and Property podcast. But around this time, a lot of women I'm finding don't actually want to or cannot invest in themselves because they've got children and Christmas is expensive and they've got to pay for, you know, to go and see and visit Santa and they've got to make sure that they have enough and they want to spend family time. And it's the first, it's the first weekend in December. And I've actually found it almost a little bit sad at the fact that a lot of women are not investing in themselves. to go out and to do that. I don't know, like I found it a little bit tricky because in a way, it was to be expected, but at the same time, I want to make sure that anyone who wants to come can come at the same time and that they don't feel restricted. And so if you are a female listening to this, come and enjoy yourself and be in a room with the most incredible other women and really catapult and elevate yourself. Also, dare I say, and I am going to say this and I am going to give myself a little pat on the back, events is my jam, Danielle. Like events is my jam, okay? I've got a background in events management and marketing. Like you want to have a good time, I'm your girl. Like anything you think, I wish we had this. like, I got you. It's there. Don't worry. Like I got it. I got it planned. I got it down. and I've just gone all out. Like people literally are like, it's your wedding again, even though I'm not. Why not? Yeah, but Christmas is mad. just, they see Christmas and weddings in the same category and literally just add the dollar signs to everything. So I've learnt a lot. I've learnt a lot about this particular gala, but we are, we are going to have one hell of a time. So yeah, so Danielle is going to be there. obviously, you know, if you do want a ticket, just DM me the word gala, or you can find it all over my socials and get yourself to it. It's going to be so much fun. Yay. Yay. So if people wanted to find you on social media and connect and have a conversation with you, where is best for them to find you? So I'm the Blom Property Investor. Nobody really knows my name. I'm Danielle. So my name's Danielle Jolly and I hate that last name. Nobody can ever say it. So the reason I started the Blom Property Investor was because I was the Blom runner. So the kids couldn't find me at school. That's why I originally started that. So then I went from the Blom runner. to the Blonde Property Investor just because it was just there. And yeah, I'm that on TikTok, on Instagram. And yeah, drop me a message if you wanna chat, like I'd be happy to chat and all things property or, and if you wanna go into my WhatsApp group as well. Yes, perfect. And do join that WhatsApp group. It's absolutely fantastic. So much knowledge in there. And if you want to find me as always, I'm Athena Dobson underscore official. We are Girls in Property on Instagram. And of course, don't forget to grab your gala ticket on Saturday, the 7th of December. Or if you would like to also join the Girls in Property community, which Danielle is a part of, you get a 10 % discount to the gala. So make sure that you come and join the community first. And yeah, we meet on the first Tuesday of every month. Wow. yeah, it's really going, it's like taking off. So I'm so proud of it. It's amazing. And then we spoke about mindset as well today, and I've actually released a free mindset course. So if you want access to that free mindset course, with me actually speaking and teaching you a couple of bits of work worksheets, Thank you. Yes, me too. And yeah, have the most amazing week. You doing anything fun this week coming up? going away on Saturday. I'm going to Tenerife with my investors. I am. Yeah. You do. Done. I love it. Well, have the most amazing time. Get yourself some sunshine and everybody message us. Let us know if you're going on holiday and where you're heading off to to get a bit of sunshine. But have an amazing week. Thank you so much for listening and I will catch you next week. Thanks guys. Bye.