Lets Talk Tax: Demystifying Property Tax with the Property Tax Queen Amy Richardson

In this episode of Girls in Property, host Athena Dobson sits down with Amy Richardson, widely known as the “Property Tax Queen,” to dive into her journey from the corporate world to thriving as an entrepreneur in property tax. Amy opens up about the realities of balancing a growing business with motherhood and shares how surrounding herself with supportive people has been a game-changer.

You'll hear Amy’s expert advice on why having a property tax specialist on your team can make a world of difference, and how understanding your financial setup can lead to better outcomes. She breaks down the importance of asking questions and setting clear goals when working with a tax advisor, especially in the complex world of property investment.

This conversation is packed with insights on personal growth, achieving financial freedom, and the critical role that education and specialized knowledge play in building a successful property investment journey. Don’t miss it if you’re ready to take your property game to the next level!

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So we are coming to you Monday morning and today I have somebody fabulous that I would love to introduce you to. I like to get different types of topics on the podcast as you know and different types of conversations. And one of the conversations I've had with a person before that you all absolutely loved was around the topic of tax. property tax specifically and accounting. So I thought I would get the property tax queen on today, who is Amy Richardson. Hey Amy. Hello, good morning! Good morning. We are early today. We are 8.30 AM on a Monday morning. Look at us go. Yeah, and I've been running around all morning just to spruce myself up for you. thank you for doing that. I love it. And do know what was amazing was you messaged me yesterday and you were like, Athena, I've got these like meetings I've got to get to because we were supposed to be doing it at 9.30. But you know, we troubleshooted it. I was like, can you do an hour early? Let's get up. Let's get cracking and let's get on. And you've already done the school run this morning, haven't you? Yeah, I have, yes. We'll see. No, it's amazing. So Amy, before we begin with today's podcast, can you first of all introduce yourself, tell the listeners a bit about yourself, your background, because what they love is to really get to know you as a person as well as kind of the property tax queen. It's like, well, who is Amy? And if you tell us a bit about yourself, your history, story of how you got into property tax, and then we'll take the conversation from there. Okay, so my name is Amy Richardson, also known as Property Tax Clue. So a lot of you already know me, for you that don't, I am in Property Tax Clue is in the name. I have been in accounting and finance since the age of 15, actually, because that's when I started my apprenticeship, because my birthday is in August. And I literally went worked myself. through the ranks within practice. So I did various different tax roles, accounting roles. Then when I qualified as a Chartered Accountant at 21, I then went into industry and I worked for massive brands like Rolls Royce and Jackie Redam-Drover. Then I got married, then I got divorced and I had kids. So my life changed quite a bit. I wasn't roaming around going on holidays doing what I wanted to do all the time. I had a lot of responsibility. So when I had my second child, I was working in a really high paid job in corporate and I just thought, I don't want to do this anymore. What can I do for myself? And initially it was a case of just make some extra money on the side. go back to my job. I didn't hate my job, I liked my job, there were some really great people there. And it was just this little thought that I had in my head, just start something, it'll be fine. Then I started reading loads of books and I started thinking about it a little bit more seriously. And by the time I'd given birth to my second child, so two weeks post the C-section, I was on the laptop creating my website. and she was born in the May. By the June, Property Tax Queen was born. And we're nearly four years on now. So, yeah, it was mad times. I never thought that I'd be sitting here doing something like this today. It literally just spiralled from, I'm gonna do something for myself, for the family, for the household, into, actually. I can do something better with my life. can actually have more control over my time, my freedom, who I work with, get more joy out of what I'm doing. And once I understood that, I really started to roll with it. yeah, so what we actually do at, so my business is called FlowEx Advisory. So property tax queen is kind of like a stage name, if you like. It's, you know, it's my persona. It's my Instagram, that kind of thing. But my firm. FloEx advisory, we do property accounting and property tax. So everything to do with property. Now, why did I choose to niche into property? So I remember, literally remember thinking, I don't want to be a general accountant. That's boring. And you know, I do not do boring. I can't do it. So I was like, what's quite complicated? and interesting. So I don't get bored, but that's another problem of mine. I tend to get bored. And what am I actually interested in? What do I actually care about? So I got the list down to like three different things and it was like tech startups. And then I was like, nah, no point. They get money off funding, can't really help them. There was property and family got property on me, interested in property, et cetera. And I think the third one was something like, hairdressers or something like that. But then I decided, well, they don't really make that much money, so can I really help them? Not really going to much of a problem. So I kind of naturally got to the property side of things just through like natural selection almost. And mainly because there's that passion there from me as well, wanting to build out my own portfolio and have that type of wealth around me as well. So yeah, that's how that came about. It was a challenge at the time. you imagine I... So had my first daughter, who at the time was three, nearly four, when my second was born. I literally went back to a full-time job after four months. And along that, I was building Florex Advisory as well. So it was full on. And then, so what I basically did was... I'm always the breadwinner in my household. So I didn't have no choice, but I had to build a fund and then quit the job and go for the business. And that was one of the toughest things that I ever did because I think when you get to a certain point in corporate, you get the golden handcuffs. So it's like, I'm earning such great money, da, da, da, da, da, but until you realize, it's not actually an asset. Like it could be quite easy to try and keep the two going because you've got double bubble. But once you realise that you actually build an asset through having a business, it's a lot easier to make that move. And it took me a long time to get there. But I've done it. And yeah, here I am as property tax queen. So that's my brief little story, I think. I love that and it's so inspiring as well because a lot of people can be in different journeys of themselves, but actually everyone is quite, quite similar. So I speak to a lot of women who are in a similar position to yourself. They have children of their own. They are in a job, whether it's well paid or not, they've got corporate job. They need to have that job because they are either the breadwinner or they need to bring it in because it contributes towards the household. but they then know that they want to start their own business or they know that they want to start their own chapter into property. And you're right, it's those golden handcuffs as to, you know, how do I make that transition from the corporate life into doing it? And I suppose what I'd love to ask you about that, Amy, is in your experience, when you were doing your job, your corporate job within the accounting firm, and then transitioning to do your own business whilst having the children, I mean, what was it that you did to... ensure that that transition happened. Like how did you juggle the two or three? So I hope not all my old employers are listening to this. basically I did some contract rolls. I was like, I cannot do full-time job commitment because basically if I fuck it up, then I'd rather get fired from a contract roll. It's going to be less painful. And I'd get another one like next week. So I strategically chose to do a day rate job, which at the time was good money. It was like five or 600 pound a day. So I was like, yeah, that's fine. I'll just go and sit and do that work. So I did that and it was fine to start off with because what I used to do, I'd get up mega early. I'd make my to-do list for the business. Then I would go to work and then in between meetings, I would like... be emailing, I'd be on my phone or whatever at lunchtime doing my business stuff and then I'd ring to repeat that, ring to repeat. Then it got to a stage where I was like, hmm this to-do list is quite big now and I'm getting more clients and I haven't done any work today for the employer so how are we going to get away with it? So if I'm being totally honest I absolutely blagged it. The last contract I did, I didn't do a lot of work at all because I was just so focused on the business. It was literally just get cash flowing so I can get out. So I just did bare minimum so I could build that part and then go. Which I know sounds really bad, but also come on guys, do what you've got to do. These employees in these businesses do not give a shit about you. And the moment that they find out that you've got a business or you want to better yourself. 99 % of people are jealous of that because they're not doing the same because they haven't got the bollocks to do it. So my view on it is do what you need to do to get out, worry about it later. By the way, I've never worried about it. So I think it's hard to juggle all three or two or whatever you've got going on, but ultimately you have to think what's a priority. So if you're building an asset, that's gonna give you more wealth, more stability in the future. So at some point in your day, you have to prioritize that. Whether it's lunchtime, whether it's getting up early, whether it's on the night. I I used to get moaned out constantly for being on my phone on the night. you're on your phone? Yeah, because I'm doing social media. That was almost like my downtime. So I was like, I'm not on the laptop actually doing spreadsheets or accounts or tax. I'm doing social media. you have to make sacrifices. I don't care what anybody says. You have to make some sacrifices. And Athena, you know, through my journey, like where I'm at now, that has involved getting rid of certain people out of my life because I think, I know we're going off topic here. When you start business, you find out who you really are. Like, I started, and it's so weird. I remember reading, not rich dad, poor dad. What's that other one? I can't remember it. Yeah, that's it. I read that, right? And I literally, I read it and I was like, yeah, this is me, this is me. And then I got to the relationship part and I was like, my god, I'm with the wrong person. This is terrible. Yeah, but that's okay. That's okay, Amy. That's part of life. That's part of growth. I believe, personally, I know we're going off topic and I want to be really, really concise just because I'm conscious of our time together because we've got all of our meetings. But just to say, I think that's part of evolution. I believe that people come into your life at certain chapters who are meant for those chapters of life, but it does not mean that they then have to be part of your next chapter. You know, they're meant to be there for that moment. And I do believe that. think people come and go. I really do. Yeah.% and this is my point with it. Don't be scared to do the business side of things. Don't be scared to grow. I just think I was a little bit naive in the whole thing thinking. everything that I've got in my life right now will remain and I'm just adding this business in, in order to grow the business, you will have to let go of certain things, whether it's certain friends, family, relationships, you know, you name it. And you know, when you get to that point, you're like, you're not aligned with me. And you see this all the time, You think how many friends have we got in property and how many friends have we made over the last four to five years, however long it's been, that's how long it's been for me. I've got really good close friends now that actually helped me with my business. And I can count on one hand how many friends I've got prior to starting my business that are still actually with me and on the same wavelength. So. this is the thing, property and business, specifically business can be quite a lonely game because you start having, you have your natural circles that you have and then you start doing a business and the natural circles don't understand the business that you're doing. They just can't, they just, they don't have the same sort of way of thinking as it were. And then you start to meet all these incredible, both men and women within the business world and they start to think like you and you're like, you're my people. Like I need to just hang around with you more because you get it. You get the fact that we've got to work at 10 o'clock at night. And we're constantly on our phones and we're constantly working. Like you get it because you do it yourself. And I always think that I think the way to success within business, I believe, is to surround yourself with the right people that are aligned with you. I really do. So yeah, go you. Yeah. I think it's amazing. I love it. so, in terms of what you're celebrating there for in this new chapter, bit of your life, what are you celebrating, Amy? Yeah? Yeah, I am. I think what I've been through this year, I've just got to the point now, I'm actually celebrating myself because I've managed to get to where I am by myself and I'm ready for the next chapter now. I've been told so many times about my potential and... in my own head, I've just dumbed it down to like, no, I'll just do this. And now I've removed that blockage. So I am ready to go to the next level. I'm just, I'm celebrating me. I'm celebrating my friends, my community, just my life where it is at the moment. I think it's very easy to like take all the bad things that have happened and dwell on it and be like, this is really shit because of this. No, like I'm actually taking a moment to appreciate what I've got and who I've got in my life. And I know it's like, I don't know, a bit suppy almost, isn't it? But honestly, that's where I'm at. I'm so happy being around my friends and my family and doing what I'm doing. And what I'm finding is because I'm appreciating it more, more things are coming to me. So for now, I'm living each day as it was my last. Yeah. Love that. it tends to be working and anyone who's seen my Instagram stories when I go on a night out will know that. You have fun, which is what it's all about. And I love the fact you're celebrating that, know, freedom, happiness. I'm here for it because it's all about celebrating the little wins that mean so much to us. And that's what you're doing. So fantastic celebration. What I'm going to celebrate is the fact that I checked it. I only found out yesterday. This today is the Girls and Properties 90th episode, nine zero. I know how crazy is that? So you are officially the 90th for Girls and Property, which is huge. I need to think what I'm gonna do for its 100th episode, to be honest with you, which is 10 episodes away. I'm like, how the hell am gonna celebrate 100 episodes? But yeah, yeah, but I know, I know, but honestly, like every single Monday, this has gone out, 90 episodes, like it is quite a massive milestone and it's quite a massive achievement when you think about it and. You know, people always, you know, people ask me lots of different questions within property and life and everything. But some people ask me about how do you create a successful podcast? And I always say to them, it's the same thing over and over again. It's all about consistency. It's about being consistent, getting yourself a good audience, getting yourself good content and putting it out there again and again. And that's how you build a successful podcast. So yeah, celebrating 90 episodes. I absolutely adore Girls and Property. Like it is my heart. It's my soul. So just celebrating that today and everything that I've achieved with it and everything that Girls and Property has brought to me and the people it's brought to me. So yeah, gonna celebrate that, which is great. So Amy, property tax, property accounting, let's talk about it. So I have my first question for you, which I always find a really interesting one. why would you say, let's take a person who is in the property world and I will often say to them, my advice would be to always get a property tax accountant or a property tax advisor, as opposed to just a regular accountant. Now, I'll be honest with you, when I first started in property, my very first buy-to-let I ever took on, I wanted to keep my costs down. So I got myself a regular accountant because it was cheaper than getting a property tax one. And I did that and I got burnt massively because the person I was with didn't understand about... the different types of Section 21s. They didn't understand about anything to do with that. And I actually paid an excess of 3000 pounds on my tax because they didn't realize how I could expense it. Then I went paid more, got myself a property tax accountant who then told me, Athena, we can get a rebate on this because this should have, you should never have paid this. And then I got my money back. So even though the property tax accountant was more expensive, they saved me thousands. So how do you feel when people come to you and why somebody should have a property tax accountant as opposed to just a regular one? I obviously get this all the time. Like literally people come to me they're like I've got an accountant, they're not very good, I've got a few properties now, I know I need to do something, I know I need someone within the property because you understand Naomi. So you've got to think right, say I've only ever done property accounting and property tax. So all of my... effort and energy has gone into learning and keeping up to date with that. Now property is one of the most complicated areas when it comes to accounting depending on what type of properties you've got and what structure you've got and definitely on the tax side. So you imagine if you're a generalist accountant how on earth are you going to get the time to learn every single niche? you're not going to be able to, well, unless you're an AI robot, maybe. But you can't consume all of that information. So. Number one, that's why, going back years ago, that's why I was like, there's literally no point being a generalist because I can't be perfect at something and I wanted to be perfect at something. So when you go to a specialist within that area and a true specialist who has been doing it and can show that they know what they're doing, they all know things that the generalist account of won't. And going back to your point, it may be simple things like this is actually the correct way to do it. they may know, I'll use the word, certain loopholes and things like that, you know, that they will obviously have that in-depth knowledge because they've had the time and they've wanted to invest their, you know, their time and energy into learning it. Whereas a generalist accountant, in all fairness to them, They can't do that because they've got too many clients in too many different niches so it's almost impossible for that person to have the same level of knowledge, if that makes sense. So when people come to me, I will talk to them about, in my head it's very simple because I've been doing this on the daily now for a long time. So I'll say, yeah, you need this. And they're like... what's that? So I explain it and they're like, never heard of that before. my God, this is amazing. And that bit for me, that is the best bit. Like if I can help someone, if I can teach someone, guess what guys, do it like this and then you can do this and then this and then this. Absolutely amazing. That's the, you know, the best feeling for me. So that, and I think that's the difference as well between a generalist accountant and a niche. specialist accountant, when you come off the phone to your specialist accountant you should be coming away with confidence, trust and excitement because you should be excited of wow Amy's going to do all this stuff for me and you feel like a team we're going to do it together you know I think it's really really important. Absolutely. And just sorry to interrupt you there, Amy, but what I loved about what you just said there was the fact that you explain it to them. So for example, I talked to a lot of people who say to me, my tax accountant told me to do this. And I say to them, do you actually understand what that is and what they've just said to you? And they're like, no. And I'm like, why didn't you say that? Why didn't you say you didn't understand it and ask them to explain it? And they were like, I didn't want to seem silly. I didn't want to seem stupid. I didn't want to seem unknowledgeable. And I'm like, you're paying for a service. You must realise that. And so my advice to listeners would be exactly what Amy just said, if you don't understand it, ask because I'm sure you would rather your client understand what you're talking about, wouldn't you? Yeah, so I have this rule. If I don't think that you understand it, I won't do it. basically, it sounds so harsh, doesn't it? But I've spoke to certain clients and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it. And I'm like, okay, relay back to me what you think we're doing. And they're like, until they understand it, because it's so important, right? You have to understand the structure that you are in. Because the last thing that I want is someone ringing me up every five minutes, Amy, can I do this? Amy, can I do that? Like you need to understand, right, it's one simple thing that I say, the more complicated the structure, the more tax you will save. But the more that you need to be invested in, you need to understand exactly what that structure is. So yeah, it's important, I'm not saying go and learn the tax laws, absolutely not, but as a basic. you need to have an understanding of what you're actually getting involved with because yes I've got great knowledge on the tax and the accounting side but you know if you're out there doing developments and you're doing certain things with builders this that and the other you just need to have in the back of your mind what your structure is and how you're going to do things simple things of you know got a group structure which company should I buy the property in? Which company should I buy? materials in things like that. So yeah it's super important just to ask those questions. There's no silly question. Like, you know, I remember being in old jobs and they'd be like, no, we've got an open door policy. No, no questions, a stupid question. And to be honest with you, there was only like one or two places I ever worked where I felt like that. But when I did get that opportunity to ask those silly questions, guess what? That's when I learned because there is no stupid questions. And I always say, you know, it's always about the questions that you ask. Like if you keep asking questions, then you're going to get more knowledge out of someone and you'll work out like, they the right person for you to work with or are they not? So I actually really encourage the questions on, okay, what are we actually doing? It tends to work out well from there. Do you know what I did when I wanted to learn more about this? I actually booked myself onto a three day tax course, which sounds so boring. I spent my weekend doing it and I went and learned all about tax so that when I went back to my accountant, I was suggesting to him, I was like, I think we should do this. I think we should do this. And he's like, yeah, okay. And I was like, yeah, I've just gone and done this three day tax course. I've learned all about how to like, for example, I learned that for one of my companies, it was better to create it as a partnership company, like an LLP, as opposed to a limited company. And I was learning all about the difference between partnerships and limited liability companies and why you would have those differences. And so I took the time to further educate myself before then having the meetings with my accountant, who then was like, well, we should do it this way because of this, and we should do it that way because of that. So people could also learn in their own time about tax because It might not be the most sexiest thing to learn about, but my God, are there ways that you can save money, which is sexy. So. I did do a course on tax. Excuse me. I think it was at the of this year. So I do have like an education platform if you like. perfect, there you go. I totally forgot about, was not an intentional plug because to be honest with you, I don't really promote it that much anymore just because I've got so much going on but I probably should. Because one of my things, so I have a business coach and he said to me, he's like, Amy, you love teaching people and I was like, I know, I do all day, I'm on the phone all day. And I was like, I don't want to be on the phone all day. So how can I get this information out and how can I add value to someone's life without actually physically swapping my time out? Because guess what, guys? We're in business, so we don't want to be on the phone all the time. Right? That's not the aim. So I came up with the idea of let's do a course, and then it's like a one-to-many route to helping people. So I did that at the start of the year. It's an all-encompassing. property tax course. So there's all different strategies in there, group structures, what's an LLP, what's a limited company, how to save stamp duty, how to save VAT on commercial property, all that kind of stuff, self-pensions, you name it, it's in there. So that's a really good crash course. I just want to say though, Tax is not easy and I studied eight years to get my qualifications. So, but what I do think these short one day, three day courses are great for is that base understanding because then that allows you to go and challenge. So go and challenge. And you know what you will know from the questions that you ask? You know, okay, this person's right for me then. They know what they're on about. And I'll tell you something else is right. And this me going, getting on my high horse now. The amount of people that come to me and they have been sold a tax-avoiding scheme, right? They have been shown slides. They've only had phone calls. And all that has been spoken about is this one method of doing things. But do know what? People never ask. Why is that good for me? Explain it. Put it in writing. Show me. They can't do it. So this is what I'm saying about questions. When you are talking to a tax advisor, let's say for example, Athena, I said to you, you need this structure. need a group structure. You need a hold co. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's gonna cost you three grand. Hand over your money, you know? And I'm on to you every week. Sales, sales, sales calls. Now if you don't ask me why, how are you going to know that it's right for you? You know? And then the amount of people that just trust somebody because they say, I'm a chartered accountant, I'm a chartered tax advisor. Great, they may be, but if they're any good, they'll be able to explain to you why that structure or that, you know, that solution is correct for them. So please guys, take one thing away from this podcast, go and get some base knowledge and go and ask some really good questions. Yeah, completely, completely agree. And then one other question I've got for you, Amy, also is, and I don't know if this is the right way of seeing it, I'm really curious as to the answer. Can you get like a property accountant who isn't a property tax specialist? Yes, they do exist. they do exist. So, because I've seen it before, if somebody's been a property accountant, but then you said, right, are you property tax specific or a specialist? And they're like, no, you need somebody else to be like a property tax specialist. And that always confused me. Yeah, so accounting, accounting, sorry, is different to tax. So there's two different skill sets. So you could have someone who's a property accountant. But the meaning of that is pretty open because technically an accountant trades in tax. So that accountant could still help you on the tax side. And also, you don't have to be a Chartered Tax Advisor to be a Property Tax Specialist either. There's people within this field that I know have been doing it 40 years. So the people I've learned off, like, you know, learned from, they've been doing this 40 odd years. And some of them are not Chartered Tax Advisors, but they're Chartered Accountants. But they might have been tax partners in big firms or something like that. Again, it comes back down to the questions, what's that person's experience? You know, let's say there could be someone whose mid 50s, early 60s, they're not even chartered, but they've always worked for firms doing property tax. You'd probably rather use them than go to someone who's just qualified as a chartered accountant out of the big four, but has no property tax experience. I think credentials are important, but experience is equally as important. And if not more, because... when you do your exams versus the real world, it's very, different. Very, very different. So people need to bear that in mind. But generally, someone's a property accountant, they'll probably be able to do property, well, they will be able to do property accounts and the corporation tax return. If you've got a complicated tax inquiry, then they would probably sub that out to a specialist tax advisor. And also just want to say in the tax world, yes you can get property tax specialist but don't forget that property tax Is all of the taxes right? It's income tax if you've got properties in your own name. It's corporation tax if you've got properties in the company. It's capital gains tax if you sold a property in your own name. It's inheritance tax because you've built up a wealth of portfolio and then you want to pass it on tax efficiently. There's even VAT because if you do a commercial that will come into play as well. What you'll find in tax is you might have someone who is an inheritance tax specialist and that's all they do, but they might have clients in property, construction, automotive, whatever it might be. The tax realm, the world is massive. So what I would say as well, when you're choosing an advisor, depends what you're looking for, Because... you might have property tax specialist and they might not be the best on inheritance tax. And if you've got a really complicated IHT case, then it might be best to go to someone who's a specialist in inheritance tax, if that makes sense. very true. And the same with VAT, like I don't do VAT. I've got a specialist that does that and we sub it out to him. And I'm quite open on the stuff that I don't like doing. Same on stamp duty. I don't like it. Got a guy for that. So it's about... Knowing what you're good at. I like group structures. Everybody knows that. That's all I talk about. That's what I love. That's what I do. If you come to me on VAT, on property, on commercial to residency, and you want all this complicated stuff doing, I'll say, that's great. Go and speak to this man over here because he loves it. So I think as well, again, going back to the people that you know, if someone's saying to you, they can do absolutely everything. It's probably bullshit because all of these areas are really, complicated. So I'm really honest as a person. I'll say, yeah, I can do this or I don't do this, but so and so does it. And nine times out of 10, the client doesn't care. They don't mind because I've been upfront and honest and I've actually got their best interests at heart because they'd rather sleep at night going, well, that's fine. Cause you know, Tim's going to do this or John's going to do this. And then that's absolutely fine. So I think as well, when you're going. working with a firm, work with a firm that has actual honesty and integrity, which to be honest with you is quite rare these days. But I think they're super important and that's me as a person. So I'd rather just be upfront and honest and say, yeah, guys, I definitely do this, but I don't do this. And then everybody's happy. That's why you're the property tax queen. Do you know how I see it and how I always explain it? It's like, you know, we go to a GP surgery and the doctor's like, right, what are your symptoms? What do you need? And then you tell them what you need and she goes, great. Or he goes, great. I'll refer you to the specialist who specialises in XYZ. I see it as exactly the same way. You wouldn't want a general practitioner to then be operating open heart surgery on you because they haven't been trained in open heart surgery. They've referred you to the correct person. And I actually think I would rather speak to somebody who says, great, I don't actually do VAT. Let me pass you on to Tim, who is a specialist in it. Because I'm like, great, they have people within their team who understand how to do that. So I actually think it's one of your sort of, I think it's a huge strength that you have in the fact that you do that. Honestly, Amy, I could talk to you like for hours and hours about this, because I'm actually really geeky and I'm actually interested in tax, which sounds so boring. But so true as well, but I am conscious of time. So I've got one question left for you if that's okay. Which is, so the listeners who listen to the Girls and Property podcast are either starting out in their journey or they're in their journey at the moment and they're getting their structures together and they're getting their properties together and they might be on one, they might be on five, there's a real eclectic mix. What would you say would be your biggest, biggest bit of advice you would give? to those people in order to have their properties in the most tax efficient way and structured in the best way, would you say? Okay, start with the end in mind. So I've taken that from various different business books, but it's my approach and you have to start with the end in mind and work back. So if you are clear on what you want, as long as you have clarity on where you're going, go to somebody like me, property tax accountant. tax specialist, explain to don't even talk about structure, don't even talk about tax, say to them, hi Mr. So and So, I wanna tell you what I want to do, and I'm gonna tell you why I want to do it, okay? So you explain, I want 20 properties within five years, and I want you to help me do it, and therefore what structure do I need to start off with? to grow into that. And that's where the real conversation should come in. So that's what I do with clients. If someone comes to me, I always say to them, why are here? Why are you doing property? What do you want out of it? And sometimes, you you end up having more in-depth conversations about their lives or why they got into property, why it's so important to them, etc. But it's actually really important to understand what is the end goal, what is the point of doing all of this first and then obviously working back from there. Because if someone came to me and said, I only want two properties, Amy, then I'm happy in my job. I don't want to, I'm not bothered, just a bit of pocket money. I'd be like, okay, that's gonna be a very different answer compared to someone who says to me, right, you know, I want 20 HMOs, I wanna do service accommodation, I wanna do development and this, this, this, would be a complete different answer, you know? So it's about the story and it's about where you want to end up. And a lot of people, right, they do not know where they want to end up. So I would urge to get pen to paper and really start thinking about... what exactly do you want from property and go from there. God, beautiful. Couldn't have said it better myself. Love it. And Amy, I am sure you're going to be, if you're happy to be, is, inundated with people either wanting to work with you, wanting your course. We should definitely say there is therefore, you know, is that available? Like if people wanted to gain some information from your course, is that a thing? Yeah. There we go. Yay. Perfect. So do you want to just tell everybody where they can find you on socials and the best place to do so? Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn under Amy Richardson ACA. That's the professional one. And you can find me on Instagram. It's at property tax queen. Yeah, perfect. And guys, I appreciate this is a shorter episode than usual today. It's just we are busy women and this is what happens. So we've tried to give as much info as we can today, but if you want any more info from Amy, then go and speak to her and check her out. You also go to quite a lot of social events as well. So I'm sure that people will see you there. And then if you want to find me as always, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official, girls in property on Instagram. And if you want to email, it's girls and property pod at gmail.com. And then don't forget, we are now fast approaching the Girls and Property Christmas Gala, Saturday the 7th of December. I think everything's nearly booked now, which is just crazy. I'll be honest with you, Amy, I had no idea how much everything was gonna cost at Christmas. That's been a learning curve. It's been an interesting experience to say the least, but I know that you're still hoping to come along, aren't you, to the gala? Yes, I just need to get childcare sorted and then I'll be there. Love it. Do you know, it's so interesting because so many, as you know, the reality is a lot of women are saying, I've got to get my childcare sorted. You know, it's Christmas, it's a really busy time of year. And that's something that we really have to respect as well. So yes, hopefully we get the childcare and then get yourself most glitteriest, sparkliest possible thing you can find and come along. I definitely will. I love it. love it. But yes, but come along. There's couple of tickets left, guys. So just DM me the word Gala if you want to do that. And then, yeah. And then what we'll do is I'll get Amy back on when we've got a bit more time and we can go into depth a bit more about some property tax questions. But any questions you've got, either DM them to me and I'll forward them on to Amy or direct message Amy. And yeah, good luck with all of your property bits and make sure you get your structure right and have the end goal in mind as Amy has beautifully said. But thank you so much for listening guys. Have the most amazing Monday. Send me a DM, whatever you're doing. Tell me what you're celebrating and I will speak to you soon. Have a good one. Bend.