Starting out in Property: 6 Things I Wish I Knew with Athena Dobson

Hey everyone, welcome back to the second episode of the year for Girls in Property! In this episode, I’m talking to all the newbies entering the property world and sharing the advice I wish I had when I first started out.

Starting in property can feel overwhelming—trying to figure out who to trust, what advice to follow, and where to best spend your time and money. While I don’t have all the answers, I’ve put together six key lessons I wish I knew from the start, along with practical tips for anyone beginning their property journey today.

This episode is as raw and real as it gets. I kick things off by reading a letter I wrote to myself a year ago, showing how much progress you can make in just 12 months. I also dive into the common mistakes many people make when starting out, and how you can avoid them by taking the right actions.

Tune in for an honest, educational, and down-to-earth conversation. Enjoy!

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to another episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So this is episode two for 2025 and I don't know about all of you, but I am absolutely freezing. I don't know who else is freezing this January, but with my half DNA Mediterranean, I am frozen cold. literally I've got like three dressing gowns, usually on 10 slippers. And you know, people who tell me that they've got these log burners in their house, I get so jealous of them. when they send me their pictures of their lovely log burners, I'm like, oh, I so wish I had that. So yes, if you're anything like me and you're also freezing, then give me a bit of love because I hear you, I hear you. And as we know, with heating bills and things, we only shudder to think what the heating bill is gonna come back at, quite frankly. But apart from that, I hope everybody is doing really great. I hope everyone's doing really well. Start to their new year. Has anyone set themselves any new year's resolutions that they've already broken? Has anyone still kept up with their new year's resolutions? Has a novelty worn off? Let me know and obviously send me a DM to the Instagram and I'll have a lovely, lovely chat with you about it. So in today's episode, what I actually wanted to do was to come on and do a solo episode for you all. And the reason I wanted to do the solo episode is I wanted to talk today about something that's really important, which is what's happening at the moment in such a beautiful way actually, is I'm getting a lot of girls message me. who were starting out on their journey. And men message me too, don't get me wrong. But mainly women who listen to the podcast message me and they say, you know, they're starting out in their journey. They're not quite sure the direction to take or how to approach it. And I think to myself, you know, God, I wish I had somewhere to go or somewhere to listen to when I started my journey and kind of giving me some help and some guidance because quite frankly, and we all know this, it is cowboy country sometimes in this industry. It's unregulated. you know, there are sharks out there that they're just are. And you know, I've had to learn the hard way myself and everybody will have to learn the hard way. It's part of life basically. But I did think to myself, if I could almost do a solo episode about my own experience and what almost I wish I knew when I first started my journey, then even if one person listens to the podcast and it helps one person, I will feel like I achieved something with my intentions for it. And this is what the podcast set out to achieve is to help everybody within their journey. And don't get me wrong, I have some, and the reason I'm doing this episode actually is because I have some phenomenal speakers set up for 2025, like wait until you see who I'm getting on fuel. And some of them have got 20, 30 years of experience in the industry. They're doing incredible things. It's all wonderful. And it's wonderful to get these really impressive people on the podcast. And it's great for me to speak to them as well, because I'm aspiring to be like them. But at the same time, what can happen is, is sometimes I know about you, but if I was going to be listening to the podcast, I would feel like, okay, that's great. But what about starting out? What about just the baby steps in order to get us there? How can, how can we talk to somebody who can help us with that? And so in today's episode, I would love to do a solo episode for you all to talk to you about reflecting on my own journey and thinking, do you know what? If someone's to ask me, Athena, what advice would you give to somebody who is literally just starting out? What would be the advice that you give? That's what this podcast episode is for. if that sounds like you, then hang around and stay tuned. So in usual fashion, I am doing a celebration today and I don't know if some of you follow me on Instagram and follow me on my social media, but one of the things that I spoke about was the fact that I wrote a letter to myself last year. It the first letter I've ever written to myself and it certainly won't be the last. I wrote a letter to myself. I actually gave it to my mum to keep safe for me. And then it was on my pillow on Boxing Day when I went home for Christmas. Sorry, not on Boxing Day, on Christmas Day. Silly me. Christmas Day. And I didn't open it straight away. I don't know why I didn't open it straight away. I think I felt I needed to be in the right head space to open it. I had no... Believe me when I say this to you, I had no idea. what was in that letter. Obviously I couldn't remember it. There are so many things that happen in a year. I was like, what the hell did I write? And I only opened it yesterday. I literally opened it yesterday. I was on my own in the house. I had a cup of tea and I went, you know, it's time. I need to open the letter. And it was beautiful. It really, really was the most amazing thing to do. And it was literally like giving myself a warm hug from a year ago. And it's fascinating really when you read the letter because then you also realize how far you come and things that you don't really expect, how far you've come, if that makes sense. And so what I would definitely applaud, is the right word applaud or yeah, applaud you all to do would be to write yourself a letter. If you haven't done it already, I strongly, strongly recommend it. It's the most beautiful thing that you can do. And it's to yourself. Nobody else has to read it. Nobody else has to see it. It's just for you. And it's really, really a special thing. And a really powerful thing actually, it can really set your intentions particularly at the start of the year. So I'd recommend you write one now, ready to go for January 2026. And I wrote one for one year and I actually wrote one for five years as well, which is gonna be super spooky. So mum still has the letter for five years time. So she's gonna be giving that to me in five years. And what I would suggest that you do and people do this in different ways. There's some people will actually write letters where there are platforms and tools online where you can literally write your letter on your laptop and then it can send it to you in an email in a year's time. Some people do do that and it works for them. That's no problem whatsoever. I personally love putting pen to paper. There's something about pen to paper that I love. Like for example, I've tried Trello, I've tried Asana. It's great when you've got your team members, great. But if I'm just doing my day, I love writing my to-do list, piece of paper and I cross it out. And my God, like when I cross out a task, It just, I'm so sad. It makes me feel so happy. And so if you're anything like me, get a pen and paper and write yourself a letter and then give it to someone who's really special to you that you know will keep it safe for you. And then they will then give it back to you in a year's time and let them know then. Maybe set yourself a reminder in your diary or something. But I applaud you to do this. Now, I'll be honest with you. I was toying with the idea of whether to do this or not, but I thought, you know, if I'm ever gonna do it, I'm going to do on the podcast because for me, this podcast will always be and continue to be authentic, real, honest. And I, what I really want from it actually, and people ask me this is what's my intention for the podcast is almost my intention is to show people that if I can do it, anyone can do it. And I want to show that it's not that scary and you can be brave and you can step forward and you can represent and show your voice to others. And if I can do that, why can't other people do that? And so. I wasn't sure whether to share my letter with you all. And the main reason why, if I'm completely honest with you, is I've read this letter previously three times now and every single time I cry. And I thought, I really don't want to cry on the podcast. So I'm going to give it my best shot not to cry when I read this letter to you and see how far I get. If there are a few tears, I apologize in advance. Don't judge me, but you know me, I'll always pull it back as well. But I think it's important I read it because One, it's part of my story. It's part of who I am. Quite frankly, the podcast when I do my solo episodes is almost a bit of therapy for me as well. And also I think that it's important that when listeners want examples of maybe how to write a letter, this personally is how I would write, clearly how I would write a letter because I think that it's important in a year's time to think what are the types of things you would want to read? What are the types of things you'd want to say? And sometimes there's more than... How do I explain this? There's more to life than just work. And I think that's what this letter represents. So I'm gonna give it my absolute best go to read this letter and not cry. So here we go. This is my, come on, Athena, pull yourself together. Let's see how far we get. So I literally wrote age 32, I'm now 33, so I age 32, the 2nd of January, 2024. So yeah, 2nd of January, 2024. And it writes, Dear Athena, so what happened this year? Was it our best one yet? Have we managed to make it work? I set my goals yesterday for the year and I'm so excited to see how many you tick off. Also, how did the retreats go? What was your favorite speaking event from this year? My greatest hope when you read this letter is that you have let go of your perfectionism. I know that everything that happened this year meant to happen. If it wasn't meant to happen, it wouldn't have passed you by. Right, here we go. So just to repeat that, excuse me. My greatest hope when you read this letter is that you have let go of your perfectionism. I know that everything that happened this year meant to happen. And if it wasn't meant for you, it wouldn't pass you by. Is mum and her new home yet? Question mark. What about dad? Question mark. Oh my God, what's the dog called? How is she he? Which still breaks my heart because we didn't get our dog as you know, but we are getting there. I hope you have your little family together. And I put little paw print. 2024 could easily be the greatest year of your life, but don't get so busy making a living that you forget to make a life. Athena, life is so short, go and live it. And then I say, look what we did in a year. I can't imagine what you can do in two. Stay focused, concentrate on yourself and walk in a straight line to it. You can do it girl. Love, Athena. And the reason I get emotional when I read that, and by the way, it's incredibly embarrassing to get upset on a podcast, but it's the truth, is I wrote that to myself a year ago. And, you know, if you really think about it, when you come forward in a year, you realise to yourself, have I let go of perfectionism? Have I let go of all these things? And when I say to myself, You know, don't get so busy making a living that you forget to live your life. You know, that really hit home for me because it's so true. Like I think a lot of us, a lot of us forget that the reason we have our lives is to live. And it's not always about making a business and making the business the best it can be and making a seven figure business and look at me. It's about the journey, it's about the story that goes with that and you know, not cancelling on friends because you've got this thousand to do list and not cancelling on date night because you've got work to do. And it's about actually still remembering to have your life and actually remembering to live it as well. And I wrote that a year ago and the thing that I'm, I love the fact I wrote it. So my emotion comes from like loving. the fact that I wrote that a year ago to me, but also I love the fact that I do feel like I'm in a position now where I do do that. And I really advocate that, I really do. I try and advocate this idea that you don't have to be, you know, we are people at the end of the day. We don't have to be just our businesses. We don't have to be just our work. We're human beings. And for me, that's so powerful. And I think that a of us can sometimes forget that in the moment and... forget who we are and I just want to say to all of you listening out there, like, I see you, I see you. We all worked so hard and what I would say is always make sure that you are staying healthy, staying fit, enjoying your life, enjoying the process because I promise you that will only be the biggest regret you have when you look back and you go, I didn't enjoy it. I was chasing the next thing. And you know, I spent the beginning part of my business doing that and now I can stand proudly and say, I'm no longer chasing it. I'm just letting it happen, letting it be. And I'm remembering to live my life. So yeah, epic fail on that one. Definitely cried. I'm going to try again in future to go through it, not crying. So like I said, I did warn you, there should have been like a trigger warning. I'm really sorry. but I will always be really authentic with you. I'm not a machine, I'm a human being and I'm gonna celebrate the fact that I'm a human being. I've got emotion, I'm proud that I've got emotion. We should all be proud that we have emotion. It's not a bad thing to have. And write your letter, write your letter, see how you do, but it's not always about the goals and it's not always about like, this is what I wanna achieve. It's like, that's great, but write to you, really write to you. and see how far you've come in a year. And for me, the fact that I am learning to let go of perfectionism, learning to live in the moment is massive for me, massive. So I'm really proud of myself for that. I'm really, really proud. Okay, cool. So that was my letter. And I am celebrating it, which is so wonderful. So I'm just gonna pop that to the side. Okay, here we go. So what I wanted to do with today's podcast is I really wanted to help listeners to think to yourself. Those who are at the beginning of their journey who come to me and message me and say to me, right, Athena, I'm at the beginning of my journey. What's your advice? What should I do? How should I do this? This podcast is for you. And I'm gonna tell you that if I was to start my journey again, this is what I wish somebody would have said to me. And as always, whenever I do my solo episodes, I try and have some structure to it. So I'd always try and do say five top tips that I would give. And then I kind of tell stories within that and it kind of flows from there, but it keeps me on track. On this particular one, I decided to go for six because I couldn't let go of six. I needed to keep all six in. And then I've got a little bonus for you bit at the end. But yeah, let's start with number one and then let's just make the way through it. And then hopefully you can take some notes, you can take it on board about how you can reflect on your own journey and think how you maybe do this similarly or differently to how I would do it personally. Right, here we go. Number one, I've written here. Don't just rush to buy a course. number one, don't just rush to buy a course. So show of hands, if you're driving, two hands on the wheel. Show of hands, who here has just gone, started their property journey and just thought, right, I need to buy a course. I need to buy a course. I think I want to do rent-to-rent. I'll go and do a rent-to-rent course. I think I want to do flips. I'm going to go and buy a flip course. I think I want to do commercial conversion. I'm going to go and buy that. We've all done it, right? Myself included. We've all been there. We've all thought, right, I've got to buy this course. Now, traditionally all courses change and all courses vary depending on who you go with. But the ones that I signed up to when I first started was progressive property. was no money down and the service accommodation one and they were great, but they are about two and a half grand for a three day course. So about two and a half grand for a three day course, which is a lot of money when you're starting out. But anyway, majority of people, when they come and they speak to me, the first question I always say to them is, is have you done any previous training? Have you done any previous courses? And they'll say, yes, I did this course with X company, know, PIN, Progressive, Touchstone, whoever, Samuel Leeds, my God, whoever these big names are, they've probably done a course. Cause they've got massive marketing and they've got massive sales people get reached out to all the time. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I will, I'll tell you what there is a problem with. I always ask them a question, which is great, no problem. When did you do this course? And they'll say to me, I did this course five months ago. I did this course four months ago, whenever it was. I said, okay, and it was three days. And I say, what have you done with the knowledge from the course? What have you done with the course? Have you done, have you sent letters? Have you done viewings? Have you done this? Have you done this? And I ask questions. Now, majority of the time, I'd say 85 % of the time, The answer is that they have done nothing with the education from the course. And the reason is, is because when you do these courses, which typically hold, I'd say about 60 people in a room on average, is they teach you the theory, which is fine. You can teach theory all you want. I can teach you theory right now. Send letters, do viewings. This is how a template should look. This is a script to talk to an agent. But what they don't teach in this, is the confidence or the mindset or the ability to actually do it. And that's what the difference is. You can put a script in front of a person all you want and go, here you go, here's a script, here's an agent script, enjoy. But if you give that to a person who has no prior experience of speaking to an agent, no confidence, is an introvert instead of an extrovert, how the hell are they supposed to use that to take them forward to actually go and speak to the agents? That's where they've got to start. They've got to start there. So when I'm saying don't just rush to buy a course, it's because if you don't have the time to do anything with it, if you don't have the mindset to do anything with it, if you don't have the right attitude to do anything with it, what is the point? I'd rather you spend two and a half grand, go on holiday and enjoy yourself and get out of the cold. Like, what are you investing in? And I think that too many people these days think that when they go to these courses, it's gonna answer all their prayers. It's gonna answer all of their questions. And it's not, you've got to think why, why do you want to go to the course? So here's my suggestion, rather than rushing to just go and buy a course, first of all, think to yourself this, right? This is the question. What is it, so what people will say to me, I want to get started in property. And I'm like, okay, cool. What the hell does that mean? I want to start in property. Like, I'm sorry, what the hell does that mean? Like, are you in a position at the moment where you have funds, for example, where you have saved up money? to put 25 % deposit down on an investment property? Yeah? If the answer is yes, fantastic, brilliant. So therefore, why don't you go with that knowledge, why don't you then go and learn about FLIPS or learn about the bi-refurbishment refinance and be like, right, this is the course I wanna do. Now, before you jump into a course, why don't you first listen to some podcasts around FLIPS, around bi-refurbishment refinance? I have tons of episodes on that from Girls and Property. I did a flipping one with Emma Fielding, example, fantastic episode. I've done bio refurbishment refinance, like listen to some podcasts, get some audio books on there and also start to learn about potential training that you would want to do with it. Get some recommendations from people who maybe have done courses before, no problem. But therefore you therefore know, right, I've got a bit of savings, I've got a bit of money, therefore I want to go and do this type of course. If it's for example, that the answer is no, you don't have the money to invest. then of course what you've got to think about is the strategy. So therefore cashflow needs to be your strategy. You need to therefore be able to look at controlling assets instead of owning assets. So then you've got to think to yourself, right, I therefore need to go and think about maybe going on a no money down course, a rent to rent course, something like that, where what I mean when I say that for all the new listeners is you're not actually owning the property that you then rent out. You're renting it from a landlord who then rents it to you and then you then rent it out per room. It's not illegal, it's not subletting. it's corporate leasing, but it's done in a legal way because the landlord is aware of it. And so then you can think to yourself about that. But then what happens is people say, right, Athena, I need the cashflow. I've not got a lot of money to invest. I'm going to go and pay two and a half grand for this no money down course or this rent to rent course. Great. This is going to answer all my problems. But they don't think about the next step because then my next question to them is once you've done the course, are you in a position where you can now invest to go forward. So do you have the money for stamps, for letters, for doing the refurb on the property, like your first one, it might be that you have to invest to get this property up to standard with the landlord to get it over the line, three grand, two grand, four grand, have you got that to invest? We have to ask these questions to ourselves before we just run in and get a course. So, It's always about understanding of your position. So what I would do if I'm starting out was rather than just rushing to buy a course, I always say this and I've said it many times before and I'll say it again for anyone who's a new listener. You never ever choose the strategy. People believe that they choose the strategy and property. They don't. The strategy chooses you. So you've got to think to yourself about something I got taught actually, which was a 70, 20, 10 split. So you think to yourself, right, Do I need cash flow right now? Is cash flow what I'm trying to do? This is for people who want to leave their jobs. This is for people who don't have money to invest in say 25 % deposit. Is this actually what I need to do? If the answer is yes, then cash flow is that. Great. Do I therefore have enough money as part of that to go forward to therefore invest in a rent to rent, which could be up to 5,000 pounds for example, per property. It could be as much as that. If the answer is no, by the way, that's not an issue. That doesn't mean that you have to stand still. That means that you're aware. So once you're aware, you can then think, right, can I team up with another person on my course or within my community, within my world, who also is at the beginning of their journey? Now I need two and a half thousand pounds each, but I can team up with that person. You know, when I remember when I I mentored these two guys about a year and half ago, two years ago, I'll never forget them. and they were in a position where they weren't quite ready to invest on their own. I don't think they wanted to actually. Now I used to run the Dorset Property Network, which is how I found these two boys completely separately. And I mentored them individually as people and they both wanted to do rent to rent HMO. And they both were brilliant, but they had completely different skillsets, which I worked out when I was mentoring them individually, complimented one another. They never overlapped. One of them brought a certain skills such as, the actual DIY, the maintenance, he was an engineer. He was able to do all that stuff. But then you had this other guy that then had all of the, he worked in finance. So he had all the numbers, the finance, the marketing. He was more of a showman than the other guy was a bit quieter. Like, and I thought, why don't you guys work together and then go forward with that? And I now see on their socials, I think they're on their like fourth rent to rent HMO now because they're now working together to take themselves forward. And they at the time weren't financially able to do it themselves, but they came together and then were able to do it financially and then build from that. So really think to yourself, like if you're going to buy a course, what are you going to do with the course afterwards? So I would always think to myself, just, just on reflection of this, I'd say, right, if I'm going to go do this course, the outcome is this. I have set myself up in a position to start immediately using the tools that I've got, because also let's be really read about this. Who remembers? half of the stuff that's actually taught to them on these three day courses. Not me. I can go on a three day course, I can write pages and pages of notes galore, and then I'll look at them two weeks later and I can't even read my own handwriting. I'm like, what the hell does that mean? What does that mean? And suddenly I've lost it and I'm like, that was pointless. You need to hit it while it's fresh. So if I'm buying a course, I'm buying a course that I can literally put into action the next day. My notes are clear, clear plan. ask the right questions in the room, boom, ready to go return an investment from my course. Thank you very much. That's how I would treat a course now. And I'm going to be coming onto this with my other five points as it were. coming back to this, think about your strategy. So 20, 70 % cashflow, 20 % is lump sum. So if you've got some money to invest into yourself, right, do I want to flip? You know, how, how is it that I buy refurbished rate refinance? How do I want to pull some monies out of that? And then 10 % longevity. So thinking about kind of your buy-to-lets and that's more sort of capital appreciation and keeping them over a period of time. So I really don't like the idea of people just rushing to buy a course without the understanding of why you're on that course. Even me, I'll give you the best example. I went and did a service accommodation course, even though at the time I wasn't really sure if I wanted to do service accommodation. Why? Why? Why did I do that? Why? because everybody else was doing it because I thought that was what I meant to do and quite frankly they said to me, we've got 25 % off at the moment which is what all salespeople say, 25 % off and I thought yeah but I'll buy that and I'll probably use that at a later date. I mean I did but I didn't, but I never used any of my notes. Do you know what I mean? I learned more from doing than the course itself like it's just something to be really mindful of and a lot of people sometimes come to me and they say to me you know, what is difference between a mentor and going on a course? And the real difference is, is understanding you as a person and understanding what is it that you require, who are you, and therefore what type of lifestyle do you want to live and therefore helping you to understand more about the strategy that will help you to do that. So it's really digging deep into the why and the behind the scenes, as opposed to just teaching you theory with a workbook that quite frankly, I could do with my eyes closed. There's a lot more to it. So that's kind of what I would say. Don't just rush to buy a course. What I would do is I would read lots of audiobooks, I'd get lots of free content, I'd listen to lots of podcasts. And if I do then decide to do a course, I would then get recommendations from people of what courses have worked for them. If it is the fact, by the way, that you want to go and you want to be in a room with 60 other people for pure networking reasons, and you want to have like a person stand in front of you live and teach you. and all of that, then go for it. It's like, they're typically between, I'd say 1500 to two and a half grand. However, I'm not plugging this, but I'm just going to put it out there to anyone listening who is interested in this, because it is changing going forward. I created about a year ago, an online course. It's a self-led course, which has got seven modules in there, all about how to start your, your property training. It literally takes you through a seven step process of if you're starting out in property, how do you get into property? And I started it and the reason I started and I built that course for it to be self-led and it's done extremely well for so many people is because too many people were coming to me saying to me, Athena, I really trust you. Who should I trust in the industry? I then told them who to trust in the industry and actually they couldn't be trusted. And I was completely wrong in my thoughts and I hold my hands up with that. And we're only human being, we can only know as much as we know. And I thought, you know what? The person I trust in this industry is God damn me. I trust me to help these people. And as a result of that, I said, I can build a course better than anyone else. I've done the training, I've lived the life, I'm doing what I'm saying I'm doing. Half the people on the bloody stage, I say they've done it 30 years ago. I'm like, that's irrelevant. You need to know now what's happening with changes and regulations and everything. And so I built the self-led course and the price I charged was £497. a fraction of what everyone else is charging and I still charge £497 because I believe that you should invest more in actually using it to go forward as opposed to just spending money at two and a half and then you got nothing left for yourself to then go and invest with. So if anybody actually wants information about that or just to chat, you can book a discovery call with me for 30 minutes and we can have a chat whether it's even right for you or just DM me the word, I don't know. give me the word accelerator course and I'll send you the link to it and it will get you started. goes from, so the seven modules, just to explain if anybody's actually curious in this and then I'll move on, is module one's mindset. Module two is all about mapping out your goals. Module three is massive, it's method. So it teaches you HMOs, service accommodation and bitalette. And the reason it only teaches service accommodation, HMO and bitalette is because at the time when I made the course, it's the only strategies I'd been involved in and I never teach anything that I don't know about. So that's what I taught. And that's from a rent-to-rent perspective and from a buying perspective, you've then got module four, which is kind of your matching, like deal matchmaker. So this is matching the right strategy to the right deal. This is about how to speak to agents. This is about how to do right marketing, mass marketing, targeted marketing, all of that, all of the templates are in there. Then module five is all about money. No, module, no, lie. Module five is all about members of your team. So your power team, how to generate your power team. I even do about joint venture agreements within there. Module six, of course, is all about money, how to raise finance, how to attract investors, how to create the best investor pack. And then module seven is all about how to multiply after that. somebody asked me this question actually the other day and they said, Athena, how much have you spent on property education yourself? And I can't remember the exact figure, but it was something like, which sends shivers down my spine, quite frankly. It was something like 34,927, which is insane, right? It's insane. And that's how much I've invested in my education. By the way, that's both business and property, I should say. It's both business and property. And I've invested in mentors, coaches, everything like that. But I have put all of that into a course of what I've learned over my time for 497. So I just want to put that out there, because I think it's important for people to know that that does exist. You don't just have to go straight in at two and a half. for a three day course. You can be self-led. I teach you literally me speaking on a screen presentation and we can do that as well. And there's a community for the property lifestyle accelerator that you can join. That's a complete side note. So yeah, don't just rush to buy a course. Really think about your strategy. Really think about why you wanna do what you wanna do and then go from there. Again, just on this topic, great example. And I use this example all the time because it's so important. If you're sat there thinking to yourself that you really want to do service accommodation because you love interior design, you love the idea of having guests, you love the idea that you can gain more cashflow every month as opposed to if you just did like a HMO or a buy to let for example. One, that's not necessarily true regarding the cashflow because you have guests. So it's completely inconsistent, goes up, it goes down. And the amount of work involved in that is a full-time job. It really, really is. Anyone who tells you that property in terms of service accommodation, self-managed, HMO, self-managed, anything like that, it's passive, they are lying to you. It is a lot, a lot of work. So just be prepared for that, I would say. So my advice would be instead of buying a course, I'd listen to podcasts, I'd go through all that and then I'd probably... I'd reach out to people who I trusted. Now, if you want to reach out to me, that's absolutely fine. And if you want to know about certain courses that could be good, then do reach out to me because I do hear from other people courses that are on and things like that. And at the same time, mine's available, but reach out to me, but also reach out to people within your network that you think are at a similar stage to you and what are they doing and how they found it and things, but just protect yourself and just know that. The answer doesn't always have to be that you have to leap into a course as the first thing. There could be other steps before you jump into the course. So that's the first thing. Second thing, number two, my piece of advice, show everyone your journey from the start. So show everyone your journey from the start. So hands up again, if you're driving two hands on the wheel, who here thinks that they're starting out in their journey? And one really cares what they're doing, as it were. We've all been there. We all say to ourselves, who the hell cares that I'm making a list of speaking to agents today? Who the hell cares that I'm going to go and send 10 letters today? Right? Who cares? I guarantee you, right? I guarantee you, people love to know about the story of the person. And if you think about it, what we all love is stories. If you think about business, if you think about anything, storytelling is one of the most important things you can ever do. And I tell you where I learned this a lot is if you ever watch Dragon's Den on BBC One, they always say whenever someone finishes a pitch, they're always like, so tell me about you, tell me about how this came about, tell me about your story. And as soon as they tell their story and they begin to learn a little bit more about them, that's when they then invest, not when they've just told them how much money they can make. because people care about the people behind it. So let me give you an example, right? I see so many people on social media who at the moment are doing this brilliantly. They're at the start of their journey and they are showing themselves going on viewings, all the problems that they're facing. I'm actually gonna give a shout out to Libby, know, Box Hill Property on Instagram. Go and check her out. Fabulous girl, very, very young girl. I think she's 21, 22, and she is... everything that I'm trying to explain to you. She is showing up every single day and showing her journey, the good, the bad, the ugly from the very beginning. She shows herself on viewing. She shows herself the issues with contractors that she's recently had. She shows the fact that maybe one of her projects didn't go to plan. All of that is part of it because what she's doing is she's building up her... Her viewers, she's building up her eyes to show that when she does get a really good deal, she's shown to be trustworthy because she's showing all aspects of her journey. She's showing the fact that things went wrong. She's showing the fact that she isn't perfect. That's what people wanna see. go, I trust this girl because she's real, because she shows the truth behind everything, right? That's what we wanna see. Not just Ferraris and Rolls Royces and all of that. And we don't just wanna see you be successful. by the end of it and then you decide to go on social media. No, because then by that time the investor doesn't know who you are. And I tell you this and I believe it from my heart, right? People will disagree with me and I will go right back at them and have a conversation with them about this is people believe that if you've got a good deal, right? The deal speaks for itself. And they're like, you know what? People don't even know who to need to know who you are. If you just whack on Instagram or somewhere really good deal, someone will buy it. They might do. Do you know what they might do? If they've got tons of cash and then they don't really care about their money and they're millionaires, fine, potentially. But I'm telling you, if I was an investor, you could bring, and I had all this money, right? You could bring the best deal to me. But if I don't know who is selling me that deal and I don't trust that person, I ain't buying the deal. It could be the best deal in the world. I'm not buying it because I need to know who's selling me that deal. I need to look them in the eyes and I need to be like, do I trust this person? And I guarantee you, if you show up every day and show your journey and show your story, even if it's like, I'm even gonna, do you know what? I'm gonna put up a story about this. I've just decided in this moment on the podcast, I'm gonna put up a post about this because there are some photos of me, right? From about three years ago of me holding my little letters, my little postcards, posting them in the letter box. And you probably, if you scroll back through my Instagram, like way, way back, you'll probably see some of these of me in the car with my deal analyzer, me in the rain, putting letters through. people's letter boxes, me saying that I'm about to go into the agents, it's all there because I wanted to show that this is what I was doing. I wanted to show people that I was credible and I was walking the walk and doing what I said I was gonna do and that's what's really important. And then that leads you to where you can have a podcast and you can have a community and then people naturally come to that because they've seen your journey and they know the real you behind it and that to me is what is important. My advice to you would be is even if you think to yourself, nobody wants to see me write this, nobody wants to see me post this, nobody wants to see me do this. Here's my advice to you. Use social media for you. Right? So let's forget about everyone else viewing you. Let's forget about trying to show the world what you're doing. Use social media as your memory board. Right? Use it as your memory board. And by using it as your memory board, you will naturally gain viewers. It just will naturally happen for you. So you don't need to go out and chase it. You don't need to do anything. You don't need to care about it. Show up maybe once a week, post what you've done that week, be like, throw back to this week. These are my challenges. These are my wins. This is what I faced. I'm going again next week and build that up. My God. Just trust me. If there's anything you take away from this podcast, just trust me because then when you find that you need an investor or you need help with something, someone will be like, oh, you're the guy, sorry, you're the girl, you're the guy that did that, that did that, that did this. And I think that Libby's a great example of this, where now I've got no doubt, even though she's 22, young girl, start of her journey, I guarantee you if she now put a post out to say, hey, I need 50 grand for an investment, I bet people would her hand off because they trust who she is in her journey and she showed up as her authentic self. So my advice would be show everyone your journey from the start and that includes online and offline and telling everybody what you do. And I tell you a really funny one actually, this is just a personal thing. So I was at Christmas recently with my family and it's big family, it's a Greek family. Some of you may have seen the photo of all of us, I it was like 25 or something, it was mad. And one of my uncles came up to me and he's like, you know, you're really, you're really... getting on with it aren't you? And so we had a bit of a chat and stuff and he actually does quite well in real estate, he does, he's got quite a few properties and he knows some stuff. So we had a proper chat about it and he was asking me my advice about what he should do about his last property and whether it was worth selling it or keeping it and it was uncovered and we had a real conversation about it and so I gave him some advice and he just looked at me and he smiled and I said to what are you smiling at? And he said to me, God you really know what you're talking about don't you? And I said to him, why'd you doubt that? And he's like, no, he's like, you really, he's like, you really, really do know what you're talking about. He's like, yeah. And then he sort of just smiled and we left it and I just laughed it off. And he came back to me and he's like, do know, I've been thinking about this. He's like, I've actually got some money that I really want to invest and I want, I want your help with it to invest it. And I was like, great. Yeah, no worries. Let's have a conversation. But because we had that chat and because we... I was telling him about the journey and he's seen it on socials and things like that. He was now ready and in a position to go, actually, do you know what? know what she's talking about. Let's actually do this. Three years ago, he probably thought I was some girl just living a fantasy, whereas now he's actually taking me seriously. And if it takes three years, it takes three years. If it takes five years, it takes five years. If it takes 10 minutes, it takes 10 minutes. Keep showing up and naturally. you just can't go wrong. So that would be my advice and never ever ever think to yourself, nobody wants to see this. Quite frankly, I don't care who wants to see it. I don't care who's interested. You know this theory of let them, let them unfollow you, let them follow you, let them be interested, let them be uninterested. Who cares? Use it as a memory board. Trust me, it will work. Just do it. Just do it. Take action today. and document your journey and by the way if you're gonna do it and you want a bit of support you want a bit of cheerleading tag me tag me in it I will cheerleader you all the way I will like it I will comment I will reshare for you tag me and I'll help you as best I can right number three now this is actually really interesting because this this kind of is in line with with number one and almost kind of contradicts itself a little bit with what I said but at the same time it's important to explain it so number three is You need to invest in yourself to move forward. You need to invest in yourself to move forward. Now I want to be really clear about this. When I say you need to invest in yourself, I do not just mean money. I don't mean that. Now money is part of that. You need, let's talk about money first of all and then I'll move on to what I actually mean. So for money, yes, like anything, right? Free content is great, but free content will only get you so far. Everyone will tell you, why you need to do something, why something is important to do, but they will never explain to you for free how to do it, right? If you wanna know how to do it, you gotta pay for it. That is the secret. And so you'll go to all these free courses for sign your leads and progressive property and all these things, and they will tell you the most wonderful things about the most wonderful life that you can have and why you should have this life, but they're not gonna show you how to do it. If you wanna learn how to do it, you gotta pay the two and a half grand to go to the three day course. So that's the first thing. But I will say is that, You do need to invest in yourselves if you do want to move forward because there comes a point and there doesn't actually come a point where you hit a crossroads. You're like, Athena, I've read all the audio audio books I can read. Athena, I've listened to every episode of your podcast and every episode of everyone else's podcast. Now is the time to invest. If that is the right time, I want you to sit down and ask yourself one more time. Are you ready to invest in it? And you ready to implement what you're going to invest in? If the answer is yes, and you're serious about it and go for it. If you're not ready to implement what you're gonna invest in, don't invest just yet. Wait until you're ready to implement. But I will say this, sometimes you need to invest. I'm almost gonna contradict myself again. It's such a chicken and egg thing because you don't know what you don't know, right? You really don't know what you don't know. And so it might be that actually by investing, that then gives you then the push to implement. Whereas if you wait to think, I'm not ready to implement yet, it's almost like you're never gonna be ready because you don't. You don't know enough to then implement and then the fear then holds you back because you don't know what you don't know. So it's, it's a bit chicken and egg, to be honest with you, but investing yourself, trust yourself. You're the best person to invest in. You know, I speak to so many moms who, you know, invest in their family, invest in their kids. You know, I used to be in performing arts and my mom used to spend every single penny that she had on me and my costumes, you know, dancing and my school fees. And it's like, what about you? Like invest in yourself, invest in who you want to be and then show up as your best self for them. If you invest in yourself as a mum, for example, you're then going to reflect in your kids to be like, wow, my mum's so cool. Look at her doing this. I want to be like that. That is you actually helping your kids by investing in yourself. That saying of put your mask on first on an aeroplane before somebody else, exactly the same. And you need to do that. Now, some people will think that they want to invest in themselves in terms of a course. That's no problem. Some people will think, do you know what, Athena, I hear what you're saying. Like I can go and learn the theory, but actually, even if I learn the theory, I'm not in a position where I feel confident enough or know myself enough in order to actually then implement that and take that forward. don't have the mindset, I have the confidence to do that. That's when you go and seek a mentor because what the mentors job is and what my job is when I mentor my mentees is I get really under like the nitty gritty. And I'm like, let's talk about that. Let's understand that. And let's give you that confidence. You know, I record every session. and one of my mentees said to me when we were on our session six halfway and we did sort of our halfway appraisal, if you ask, it's a six month, one to 12 sessions. She's like, Athena, I don't even recognize myself in session one, but look at me now compared to session one. And I'm like, exactly that. That's the purpose of it. It's really then giving yourself the permission to then go forward and go right now. I'm ready to invest. Now I'm ready to. go and speak to the agent, send the letters. And it's not, by the way, it's not just about sending the letters. Sending a letter is easy. Boop, done. I always say to people, right, you're now ready for the calls to come. They're like, oh God, I didn't think about the fact that people are gonna call me. I'm like, yeah. And then they get their first call and they're like, oh my God, what do I say? How do I say it? What if they think this? What if they think this? And I'm like, it's part of it. So that's where you need a bit more. Like it's not just someone going to a course, paying two and a half grand and going, send a letter. this will then lead to a viewing, this will then lead to this, great. You know, again, there's so much more to it. It's about what happens after the letter. What happens after the letter is that somebody calls you, you then learn how to speak to somebody over the phone in terms of a landlord to really, quite frankly, get them to then agree to a coffee meet, or even better, getting them to agree to actually meet you at the property, to then have a conversation with them about what their problems are, because let's face it, what we actually are are problem solvers, and that's actually how you get. a deal over the line is you're like, what's been happening here? What are your problems? Why did you contact me? What is it that you need from me? And as soon as they tell you what you need from them, you're like, great, this is how I can help you and lean into that. That is how you actually learn how to do property and go again and again. And there's so much to it. There's so much to it from there than just getting an agent script and being taught the theory of it, if that makes sense. And quite frankly, there's only so much they can teach you within three days. There really is. So just think about what you think you would require in order to move forward. And if you think that confidence and accountability and cheerleadering is what you actually require, then potentially a mentor is better over a coach, I would say. And then it's one-to-one as opposed to you sitting in a room with 60 people thinking, my God, like I've got a question, but there's 60 people that have got a question. And then you run out of time and there's no time to ask a question. So going back to this idea of investing in yourself that isn't anything to do with money. I'm talking about time. I'm talking about energy. I'm talking about emotion. That's what I want to talk about when I'm saying about needing to invest in yourself to move forward. So for example, if you're thinking to yourself about how little time that you really have, like let's be really real about this. If you're sitting there, but you actually have a full time job, you have kids, you have a husband, you have a busy, busy schedule. Everyone needs to go to drama, football. afternoon activities wherever it may be and then you've got to go to a pin meeting, a progressive meeting, a local meeting to network with these people and you're like I just don't have the time or I just don't have the energy on all of this. You're never really going to push past where like your full potential like you're never going to quite get there because what's safe is your little safety net of, don't have time and you tell yourself you don't have time and you tell yourself that you can't do this. As opposed to rather than just coming up with problems, instead become a solution maker and think to yourself, right, I'm gonna batch cook the night before, so therefore food is already ready. I'm gonna have everything prepared so that this is what's gonna happen. I'm gonna have a babysitter in place. I'm gonna get the parents to watch them. I'm gonna make sure that they're at their friend's house that night because it only happens once a month. Come up with solutions. Don't just give yourself the reasons why not to do something. And I guarantee you this, right? Property and majority of business actually, I'm not even gonna talk about property. Property and business in general is a people's world. It really is and I can't stress this enough. You can sit behind a screen and do all the analyzing you want to do and you know you're like, right I found this amazing deal. I'm gonna sit. I'm gonna analyze. I'm gonna find contractors. I'm gonna sit on Rightmove. I'm gonna sit on Zoopla. I'm gonna you know stare at a screen for 12 hours until my heart's content. That will only get you so far. I swear to you, it really will. Instead, if you go out there and you start saying to people, this is what I do and this is what I'm looking for, you never know who you're gonna talk to. And the amount of people that have come to me, and I've said to them to do this and they've said to me, but I'm at the start of my journey and I don't even know what I would say to anyone, start by saying who you are. Like, what are you interested in? My god, nowadays when I go networking, can't s- I'll be really honest with you, right? This is me being really real. I can't stand it when people try and talk to me about property. Shouldn't say that on a property podcast, but it's true! Like, it's so goddamn boring sometimes. Like, talk to me about travel, talk to me about your dogs, talk to me about, like, what breed of dog I should get, talk to me about the latest episode of Squid Games 2, like- Let's have a conversation about who you are. Let's get to know you more. And then the next time you come, let's then talk about property. You know? So I'm not saying don't talk about property. I'm just saying timing. Timing is everything. Like get to know you first. So don't feel like you have to go in and pretend to be something you're not. I'm not saying, you know, some people sometimes think they've got to go in and pretend, you know, fake it till you make it, this whole rubbish and fake it till you make it, go in and pretend to be this person that they're not and talk about how amazing they are in property with 12 years of experience and you've got nothing. No, you'll shoot yourself in the foot. Don't do that. Go in and say, do you know what, I'm actually just, I don't even say you're at the start of your journey. You don't even need to say that, right? Don't say that. Just say, we live in the area actually. We live down here. We're looking to take on a couple more properties. Maybe in this area, maybe in this area. Keep it really vague. Keep it really vague. And then go, yeah, we're just looking to meet new people tonight. What about yourself? And then pass it back onto them. Now they might say to you, do know I'm exactly the same? They might say to you I'm at the start of my journey, in which case you can take a sigh of relief and go, my god, me too, and then talk about it, I'll make you feel better. Or they might say to you, yeah, I've been a landlord for like 10 years, I have got this property, this property, whatever, some people like to show off. And then what you can do is you can say, do you know what? They all sound amazing. Have you got any problems with any of them? Like tell me a story, I love stories. And so you're not trying to be like, I'm trying to take one from you, you're like, tell me a story. And believe me, when I say this to you, they will give you stories. They'll be like, oh my God, this one property. It's like this one time at band camp and they'll tell you all of these stories that they have. And you're like, oh, do you know what? That sounds like a real problem. And they're like, it can be. And then you'd be like, have ever thought about getting rid of any of them? And they're like, maybe, yeah, I've thought about it. And you're like, well, do you know what? We are actually looking for one at the moment if it's a massive headache for you. And then the conversation goes and that's how you do it. It's a... It's about psychology, if I'm honest with you. It's about understanding the root of the conversation. And my best advice I can give to you more than anything else is too many people go networking with the intention of trying to get something out of it, which sounds ridiculous, right? Because whenever you do anything as human beings naturally, the idea to do anything is because you want to get something out of it because we're selfish human beings. And that's fine. I get the psychology of that. switch it for me, switch it on its head and go in with no intention or no prior, what's the word? Yeah, go in with no intention basically or trying to get anything out of anyone and I guarantee you get so much more than what you're left with. Like if you're a deal saucer for example, do me a favor, if you're listening to this and you're a deal saucer, I beg you to do something for me. Do not go into a networking event trying to sell your deal. I swear to you, listen to me when I say this to you, don't do it. Go in, network, get people to like you, get people to know who you are, what dogs you like, what TV shows you like, what, I don't know, whatever it may be, like trust me, get them to like you, then get them to talk about their journey and get them to say, know, what about you? You're looking, you know, not even are you looking for anymore, I hate that saying like. Where are you up to within your own life chapter? Are you now looking to come out the game? Are you looking to take on any more? Are you looking to move to Bermuda? Like what's part of your story? What's part of your chapter? And then they might say, oh, we're actually looking to take on another one. And then you say, well, do you know what? I actually was speaking to a landlord the other day and I think I've managed to find this deal as it were. Even if you've got the most amazing deal, don't then launch at them. Just be like, oh yeah, I might have something. and just talk it through the conversation so that they don't just go, there are saucers trying to sell me something. It's about kind of like, you know when you're making a cake and you've got to slowly put the eggs into the cake, it's like that slowly drip feed into the conversation, eggs slowly drip feed in the fact that you might have this deal as it were. And you'll get such a better response. Like the amount of saucers that try and talk to me at networking events and try and sell me deals. And I'm actually like, you're doing this completely wrong. I almost want to say to them, Can I show you how to do this? Which I don't mean that in an egotistical way whatsoever. You know my ego is not like that. I just genuinely want to help them to be like, you could do this so much better. So I'm saying to you, if you're listening to this podcast, just go networking. You don't need to have intent from it. The best thing that you can get from it is a card that you can go and then go meet for a coffee and then have further conversations from there on a one-to-one basis. But just go and meet people and... go again and again and again and consistency is the key to this. Keep showing up, keep being you and you will get more and more from it. And some of my best deals I've ever done are from networking and investing my time. And even now, for example, I've had to move quite a lot of things around over the next couple of months because there are certain, it's not networking, but certain people have invited me out for lunches, certain people have invited me out for things. And I really know that it's important for me to invest in them because they have invested so much in me. And so therefore I'm like, need, I want to, but also I need to go and do that because it's important to support them as much as they maybe have supported me. And there's a lot to that in terms of recognizing where to invest your time. And then quite frankly, emotion as well. Emotion's a massive one. Like emotion's huge and you've really got to think to yourself like, Is this what you want to do? Do you have the emotional resilience to do it? There is a huge amount, for example, in rent to rent of rejection that a of people don't tell you about. They tell you this whole fantasy about get rich quick in 90 days and all of this. And I'm like, no, no way. Like there's rejection after rejection after rejection. And you've got to almost have the emotional resilience to get through that and invest your emotion into it. Everyone will tell you, every single person you will ever speak to, I guarantee you will say that business is a roller coaster. And you have to just ride that wave, ride that journey and get yourself to it. So you need to invest in yourself to move forward. Yes, money, of course money, but time, energy and emotion, I would say. And really think that about yourself, about if you're prepared to invest that time, energy, money and emotion into yourself. And if the answer is yes, go for it. And if the answer is no, then this just might not be the right path for you. And that's absolutely fine. But you have to be honest with yourself. And the only person you can't lie to is you. Number four, I've written here, you need to be realistic and plan for success. Now you need to be realistic and plan for success. What I mean by that is when I do my discovery calls, I'm really, really fascinated by what people say to me when I do my discovery calls for 30 minutes. And I find it really interesting each time because people will come to me with an idea of what they think something is or an idea of what they want to do. And Usually it's fine and usually they do have a pretty good idea, is great. But sometimes I'd say about 60 % of the time they leave with a completely different idea than what they started off with in the discovery call. And I love that because I'm always really open with them and I really want to make sure that if they are going to invest their money and they are going to invest in a mentor or a course or whatever it may be, they do it with the right intention and they do it understanding what they want. for example, the one that I get quite a lot of the mentor coming saying they want to do rent to rent. Now, I won't go too much into what rent to rent is, because I don't have enough time on this podcast. But if you want to learn about what rent to rent is, go back on one of my episodes and I explain in detail what the concept of rent to rent is. But what people who know what it is will say this, right? It requires a lot of time. And the reason it requires a lot of time is because quite frankly, what I say about rent to rent, It's a numbers game. It is a numbers game. You can't say anything else. It is about getting a thousand letters out there for 10 to come back to you, for five to agree to a viewing, for two to say yes. Like it's numbers. So if you just had a thousand letters and only like 10, okay, maybe not a thousand. Let's go for 510 come back, you know. It's the same, but as if you'd only sent 10 letters, probably none will come back if I'm completely honest with you. It's a numbers game. And so what I always say to people when they're like, they want to get into rent to rent. I always think I do on the discovery call is I really understand what their life looks like. Because if I understand what their life looks like, I can then tell them whether they can, they have time to do rent to rent. And it's not even me judging whether they can do it. It's me asking questions to see whether they think they have time to do rent to rent. And sometimes what they'll do on the discovery call is they'll say to me, oh my God, I had no idea. I don't have time to do that. And I'm like, right, right. And then of course we have the conversation about whether they have a larger pot to work with and in which case they could potentially then go on to do a, a bite of chalet, buy a furniture, rent my finance. Sometimes they do actually, which is really interesting that they start at rent to rent it. And I'm like, hold on, you've got all this money. Like why are you doing rent to rent? Like do this instead. And they're like, oh right. Okay. Or they'll say, no, I don't quite have that. And I say, right, so maybe rent to rent's not the right thing to do. Maybe it's to think about deal sourcing, maybe it's to think about management, maybe it's to think about something else. And so then they go away and they think about that and then they come back. So it's really, really important to not just have somebody say, I wanna do rent to rent and then you go, great, I can teach you that, I know rent to rent, pay me this money and off we go. It's like, no, that is so wrong, so wrong. And I know so many people who do that. It is about really understanding who you are and setting yourself up for success. So let me give you an example of this, right? I remember speaking to one of my mentees about this when we first started and I was really clear with her in our discovery call, really clear. She told me she wanted to do rent to rent. And I was like, I said to her, this requires a lot of your time, a lot of attention, a lot of work, a lot of rejection, numbers game. Are you up for it? She said, yeah, I'm up for it. I was like, great. Okay, let's begin. And I gave her the first week and I gave her some tips about what to do. And I remember I did this specifically and she knows I did this specifically and she knows why I did this. I kind of didn't really give her the plan of how to incorporate it into her life with the job. I wanted to see what she would do if she was left to her own devices. And I gave her the tasks, didn't give her the idea of how she could fit it in around her work. So wanted her to work it out for herself. And then I came back to her and I went, how did that go? How did that go with trying to fit that in around your job? And she's like, yeah, not that well. I was like, why is that? And she was like, I just didn't really have time to do it. And I said, I told you so. Told you this was going, what's going to happen. I said, right, here's a conversation. Let's plan for success now, right? Let's actually now have a conversation about how we can make this realistic for you. And so what we then did was we went through her week and I understood what actually was going on. So she was like, right, I've got. I'm going to make up names here because obviously for data protection here, but she's like, right. I've got, Timmy's got football at six o'clock on this day. Sarah's got dance at this, this time on this day. Um, I've got to do this on this day, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it was. And we worked out that she had time on Friday, uh, Friday for the full day. She had a full day that she could do. She worked from home and she could move some diary things around. So she ended up having a full day on Friday, which was really good. I say a full day she had from like 10 till four, which is still fine. And then she had some time while her son, Timmy, was at football around 4pm. I said, look, do you wait there for like, how long is it? She goes, I wait for like an hour. And I was like, right. They've got like Wi-Fi. She goes, yeah, they've got like a cafe. There's a cafe down the road that I can go to. And I was like, right, go and sit for an hour and do some property stuff while you're waiting for Timmy. And then you know that that's your property time. She's like, yeah. I was like, right. You know, your daughter, what does she do? Is there time that we could fit it in? She goes, yeah, I could do that. I'm like, great. So we came up with a realistic plan of how she could then do that. I left her and I gave her more action steps. I always leave you with action steps. And then she came back to me and I was like, how was that? And she was like really good because I was able to actually, you know, give the time to that, to be like, right, that's when I'm gonna do that. That's when I'm gonna do that. And she had such a better relationship with it because she then dedicated the time to it. I always say, if you're gonna do this, like, you know, When it's mum time, be a mum, right? Be a mum. So the kids are home, you're feeding them. Don't try and do work when you're doing that. Sit down with your kids, be in front of them, be present in the moment, live your life, right? But where you can then go and be working businesswoman, go and do that. And really park mentalize your life into the different chapters that you've got. And I guarantee you, you're then planning for success and you have it and you can almost have it on a whiteboard, you can almost have it in front of you. But that's then how you can do that so much better. And I so wish I had done that at beginning of my chapter. By the way, I'm giving you these tips. I didn't necessarily do this. So for example, when I first started my own journey, I was podcasting on one day. I was then doing like essay management on the same day. I then maybe had a mentor at five, a mentee at five o'clock. Why not? Like hell, literally. And the reason it's hell by the way, is because you're putting on a thousand hats. And so you're using different brain parts, different brain cells. You're exhausted. You're like, who am I? What am I doing right now? No, plan your diary, plan for success. Be calm about it. So that would be my advice is you need to be realistic about can I do this? Is there room to fit it in? Buying a buy-to-let you can do easily. Full-time job, maybe do like an hour a day, you know, with solicitors. Fine, easy. Get it managed. Even if you self-manage, I self-manage all my buy-to-lets. fine, like doesn't take a lot, a lot at all. HMOs, self-managed requires work, right? Serviced accommodation. requires your soul, in my opinion. And rent to rent, know, tough gig, really tough gig, numbers, numbers, numbers. You you need to be reactive with rent to rent. It comes on Rightmove, it comes on Zoopla. You've got to be in it. There is like five people behind you literally looking at the same thing. Develop that relationship with the agent. You need to already have that relationship with the agent where it hasn't even hit Rightmove yet because they call you. Why is it on Rightmove? They should be calling you before it goes on Rightmove. Like this is how you got to think. So I'm going on a bit of tangent here, but I'm just telling you about my experience of my life and how you can be better for you. So make sure that you're thinking about this and if you want more advice, come to me. But it's so important to be realistic and plan for success. Otherwise you will hate it. You will fall off the wagon and you'll say, it didn't work, I failed and you just won't pick it up again. And that's so unfair. Whereas if you just have the right person say to you, think differently, think solution, not problem. That's it, think solution, not problem. That's how you get forward. And then number five, I've written here, accountability partners. So accountability partners are everything. When I started my journey, I am so grateful, so unbelievably grateful that I had the people around me when I started my journey. And as you know, one of those people was Sophie, Sophie for who I started this podcast with, and she's gonna come back for the 100th episode, which I think is airing in like, I think this episode is 95, so it's in five weeks time. And my God, like, she was fantastic. She cheerleaded me all the way. She believed in me, but I didn't even believe in myself. And I now hopefully do that for other people. I really believe that I hopefully do that for other people on this podcast, for the community, for the mentoring. Again, this is not me genuinely plugging the community group, but I'm telling you, if you're a person who has sat there being like, in my day to day, nobody understands me. My partner's not supportive of me. My circle of people don't really get what I'm doing. You need to get around people who light you up about what it is that you're doing because we're all, we're all different, right? But us entrepreneurs, we have something in us that is different to others in such a beautiful way. And you are, what is it saying? Like you're the, of the people around you. And I tell you, if you, you know, my community group, I'm, one of the proudest things I am is for the community group, the Girls and Property community. It's about 84 of us now. And we come together and I tell you like, it's the most encouraging, safe, warm space you can be a part of if you're starting your journey. There are other girls in there who are starting their journey. There are girls in there who are experienced. No one judges. Everyone is helpful with each other. If you've got a question, people always answer it in the best way that they can. And that is genuinely because that is what I represent in this industry. And I believe that the community resonates with that and therefore goes forward with that. And so if you are feeling out there, isolated, lonely, not sure where to go, not sure who to ask the right questions to, I beg you join the community and really, really feel part of something. It can feel male dominated in this industry. really can. It can feel like you're alone. It can feel like, can I even do this? That is what the community is there for. It really, really is. And we meet up on the first Tuesday of every month. So you get to see all the smiling faces. That's online by the way, cause everyone's around the UK. And I always bring in a guest expert to do something or other, whatever that may be. Sometimes it's property related and sometimes it's not. Like I recently had... Sharice Bishram who did the podcast on, she did a workshop for the girls all around leadership, all around setting intentions for 2025. She did a visualization workshop. Two of the girls cried during the visualization workshop. Like it's so powerful. It really, really is. And it's just a beautiful community. So yeah, again, just for ease, if you're listening to this podcast and you're interested in more information about that or a chat, give me the word community and I'm happy to share some more info on you. But I mean it, like even if it's not my community, like... Go and find your community, go and find like people in your area, go and reach out to people, Facebook, whatever it may be, find your tribe and go and talk to them and hold each other accountable. It's one of the best things you can genuinely do and try and find someone at a similar stage to you or even just slightly ahead because they'll be able to then hold you accountable to that. So really, really great. And then that's all five. So just to recap on five, I've got number one, don't just rush to buy a course. Number two, show everyone your journey from the start. Number three, you need to invest in yourself to move forward. That's time, energy, money, and emotion. Number four, you need to be realistic and plan for success. And then number five is get yourself an accountability partner. So those are five. Now I promised you that I actually had six because I couldn't let this one go. I really couldn't. And my number six is start and get perfect later. start and get perfect later. I can't tell you the amount of conversations in a shocking way I have with people where I say to them like, why haven't you started your social media yet? Why haven't you started this yet? Why haven't you started this yet? And they'll say to me, my logo's not ready yet. My company's house hasn't been set up yet. You know, all of this. And I'm like, you don't need any of that. Like just start and get perfect later. I can't express that to you enough because you'll learn so much more from doing, you really will. This podcast is a fantastic example of that. We were originally in this studio, I remember that had these ridiculous chairs that used to move because it was lunchtime and the audio was dreadful on it and everything. And even now, one of my goals for 2025 for this podcast, is that I actually get into a professional studio, my studio. Like I want to own a studio that I podcast in specifically for girls in property. And I'm saying that out loud to everyone. That's one of my goals for 2025. Now, did I wanna start there and have it all professional looking and have it in-person conversations? Of course I did. Could I afford it? No. Like it has to be start and then get perfect later and... build the momentum, build what it's meant to be. And that is so important. I had a really crap mic when I started. I had this really crap mic. I then moved to a Blue Yeti and now I've got a Rode mic. You you move through it. You move through the paces as it were. That's how you do it. So my best advice is, God damn start. Start and get perfect later. Please don't come to me with your excuses about why you haven't started and your logo isn't perfect and all of this. Just start. Another example somebody gave to me the other day, and by the way, a top tip, a top tip. was they said to me, I can't invest in myself, or can't invest in this course or your mentoring or whatever it was, because I haven't set up my company's house yet. And I need to set up my company's house yet first, because then I want to put the cost through the business. And I said to them, you don't need to do that. You can actually backdate the cost of what it is that you're investing in, even if you haven't set up a company's house. So when I made my first investment, for example, which was about two and a half grand for a course, was still, everything was in my personal name. I didn't have any company set up. And actually what I then did was I then, when it came to setting up my accounts, I just added it on my Excel document and I said, by the way, I've spent two and a half grand. This is what it was for, here's the receipt. I wanna put it against the business. And the accountant was like, no problem. So stop, like that's a top tip by the way. So stop making like excuses and just start. And as soon as you start, you'll go. wow, I'm actually doing this. And you're like, yeah, and now I'm going to get perfect later. Here's my first logo, you know, that looks half decent, but you know what, in two weeks time, I'm going to make another logo that looks 10 times better because I've had time to think about it, but at least I've got my letter campaign underway. At least I've got my HMO register underway, whatever it may be, like just start. And then a bonus I've just written here, because I think it's important just to finish on this note. And thank you for staying with me. I appreciate this is a slightly longer podcast. So I hope that you've all really enjoyed it. What I've written here, and it was actually something that Sharice Bishram said on the community group. And I wanted to share it with you all because for me, it was a real poignant moment for me where I, even me, I went, wow, I didn't even think about that. And so I wanted to share it with you all, which was, she said that limiting beliefs, when we have limiting beliefs, they're not even our own beliefs. They're not our limiting beliefs. They're beliefs that someone else has instilled in us. And for me, that was so powerful. Like everybody has limiting beliefs. Everybody, human beings, we think to ourselves, I can't do that. I can't do that. There's no way I can do that. Like an example for me would be, let me give you an example, right? An example for me would be like, there is no way that I could get someone like Stephen Bartlett on this podcast. They wouldn't be interested in coming on this podcast. Like, who am I? I'm this person who does a podcast for girls and property, but why would Stephen come on my podcast? Like that's a limiting belief, right? Is that my belief? Like, why do I have that belief? Is that because someone else has instilled in me the fact that they believe I am a small podcast and therefore I couldn't get Stephen on? And so it's a really interesting kind of a conversation about where do you believe that your limiting beliefs stem from? And this is actually gonna be part of a further podcast that I do talking all about imposter syndrome. Because I think imposter syndrome is such an important conversation to have and so many people face it that I speak to. And I really want to do a solo episode for my next one all about limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. So I hope that you will really enjoy that one. But, yeah, I hope that really helped for everyone who maybe is starting out in property or business. I'm really wanting to think about how maybe they could take themselves forward. So as I said, don't just rush to buy a course, really think to yourself, can I implement this course straight away? Why do I want this course? What even strategy do I think I want to learn before I then go and pull this money into this course? Is it a course that I'm seeking or is it a self-led course that I'm seeking or is it a mentor that I'm seeking? What is it? Show everyone your journey. Show up every day, remain consistent. Do it as a memory board for yourself if it's online and really just show up consistently and go for it. And trust me, people will pay attention. And even if they don't, who cares? Nobody cares. Like just do it for you more than anything else. Invest in yourself, move forward. Give your energy to people, give your time to people, invest financially in yourself and give yourself permission to have the emotion of it as well. And then you need to be realistic. When you're thinking about how the hell am I gonna do this? Be realistic. If you're in a full-time job, how can you fit it in? If you've got kids, how can you fit it around the kids? Really set yourself up a plan for success. So, so important. And then get yourself accountability partners. Again, the girls and property community is always here if you're ever interested. Just DM me the word community. and then make sure you start and get perfect later. Really, really important. And don't ever believe that your limiting beliefs are yours either. Really think that. If a limiting belief ever goes into your head and it ever comes in, just go, no thank you, that's not my belief, that's your belief. Go away, thank you, goodbye. And that's a task that I'm really gonna do. If I've ever got a limiting belief that comes into my head, I'm just gonna go, no thank you, away you go, no thank you. And that's what I'd love to leave you all with on this podcast. I appreciate that I spoke for about one hour 15. I always get shocked with how long I can speak for and I always get shocked at how many people want to listen. So thank you so much. You know how much I love you all. Like I'm sending you all the most warmest hugs. And also, can I just ask a really quick favor, please? My favor is this. On Apple podcast, I don't think you can do it on Spotify, but on Apple podcast, if I could ask a really special favor, which is if you love listening to the podcast and you really, really enjoy it and you gain value out of it. please can you leave me a review on there. It means the absolute world to me. I read each and every one of them and it really helps me in terms of ranking, algorithm, everything for girls and property. I am a grassroot one girl band for this podcast as you know, like it's just me, just little old me. And I would love to really just try and make girls and property everything that I want it to be and really reach as many years as I can and help as many people as I possibly can. So if you can leave me a review. with a bit of love. I would really appreciate that and I know we've got some amazing listeners. I know we've got some committed ones who turn up every week. Please help me. And what I'll do is I'll pop it in the show notes as well for ease. But if you go onto Apple podcasts, I think it is, if you scroll down the page to girls and the girls and property page and scroll down, there'll be a section you can leave a review and I'd be forever grateful. thank you. And then yes, I've got some exciting news coming up in February, beginning of February. So watch this space. I also have ticket sales going on at the beginning of February for the Girls and Property Retreat. It's the annual retreat that happens every year. Date is going to be... I'm not going to tell you yet. It's a save the date. So I'm going to do a save the date and I'm going let you all know what the date of that is going to be and then make sure that you grab your ticket. There's only going to be 80 tickets and by the looks of things, 80 people have already, well more than 80 people have already told me that they're coming. So that should sell out quite quickly. So if you're coming... Get yourself a ticket as soon as possible. then yeah, stay in touch. I love receiving all your messages. I get loads of messages every week from people who are just, know, send me all sorts. So continue to do so, continue to spread the love, continue to tell people about Girls and Property. Like let's get Girls and Property out there with people listening, people paying attention to it. I'm really helping as many people as we can. And of course, if you've got any... top tips or anything that you want to hear on this podcast, I'm always open to listen. I have some amazing guests lined up for you all, like some proper cool guests. So watch this space is all I'm going to say. Be patient and yeah, tune in every Monday, 7 a.m. I'll always be here. If you ever need anything, let me know. Have the most amazing week, sending you all loads of love and remember health is wealth. Look after yourself, move your body and yeah, just enjoy the journey and As the letter said, life is short, live your life and live in the moment. Lots of love guys. Have a great week. Bye.