Breaking Barriers in Property: Mastering the Art of Talking to Estate Agents with Rachel Ollington

In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson invites the amazing Rachel Ollington, who’s been running her own sales and lettings agency for the past 20 years. Athena’s on a mission to debunk the myth that estate agents are all scary and intimidating—and who better to help with that than Rachel, who’s lived the experience from the other side of the desk!

To kick things off, Athena and Rachel share a good laugh, including the hilarious story of how Athena accidentally called Rachel ‘Rebecca’ for weeks—oops!

Rachel then takes us back to where it all began, sharing how she first dipped her toes into the property world at 16, landing a job at an estate agency and how her love for real estate blossomed. The conversation heats up with some juicy property chat as they cover everything from the importance of viewings to mastering the work-life balance, the ins and outs of rent-to-rent properties, and even top tips for speaking to estate agents.

The duo digs deep into the importance of building strong relationships in the property world, especially as your values and priorities evolve. They discuss how to tackle those rent-to-rent fears, why proactive communication is crucial, and how being authentic in business can lead to real success. Plus, Rachel and Athena chat about the power of personalised direct mail and how leaning into community can supercharge your property journey.

Ultimately, it's all about building confidence, collaborating with others, and having fun along the way as you navigate the property world. Don’t miss this inspiring and playful conversation! 

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. How's everyone doing today? Another Monday morning, hopefully a little less colder than the one before, but hope everyone is doing amazing and really enjoying whatever it is, whether it's taking the kids to school, whether it's heading off to work, whether it's working on your business, working on your goals, whatever it may be, hopefully you're having an amazing morning. So for today's podcast, I've got someone really, well, just fantastic on. First of all, it's somebody I've actually never got on before in regards to what it is they're gonna discuss today, which I think is gonna be a really interesting topic of conversation. But also she is also the first sort of community member for Girls and Property that I've also ever got on the podcast. So an incredible friend of mine, really excited to have her on and I'd love to introduce Rachel Ollington. Hi Rachel. How are you? Yeah, good, thank you. I'm very excited, pleased to be here. Yay! So do you know what? I have to tell our viewers this just to start us off, because I think it's the funniest bit of how our journey, let's call it, actually started as well. So obviously for the longest time, as most things happen, we were sort of Instagramming, back and forth, chatting away, Girls and Property, Lettings, agency, management, life. And I kept calling you Rebecca, didn't I? You did. Like, for the longest time I kept going, Rebecca. we was walking the dog around the park and i played your voice note and my husband said to me did she just call you Rebecca? i was like yeah she always does it. he was like are you going to tell her? i was like we're a bit far in now like i feel like it's been a couple of months we've been talking about it and for us i like but what about when you actually meet athena are you just going to answer to Rebecca? was like oh yeah no maybe i should i should tell her. can't tell you how mortified I was when you sent me this message. And yeah, but you literally went, so I have something to tell you. And by the way, this isn't like just one or two messages. This is like weeks. was the problem, it had gone too far. So the first time I thought, just like, it's neither here nor there. And then as it then just went on and on, I thought, you know, it's gone too far now to say to you, my name's actually Rachel, not Rebecca. Honestly, I was mortified and I felt like it was one of those friends moments. Like, you know the TV series Friends where it's like, take the Rachel at the altar and I was like, my god, I've been calling her the wrong name all this time. So first of all, I think that's the most fantastically beautiful story of our relationship, first of all. I might just still call you Rebecca just for the fun of it. say I answer to anything, it's absolutely fine. it's just funny when i when i literally just introduced you just then and i said your full name because usually i just call you rach so when i was like rachael and i had to the full title i was like my god this brings back like ptsd memories It's Rachel Rebecca. We don't have a Rachel. It's my dyslexia. Like literally so dyslexic. But you know what? This is a really good point actually. You know on socials at the time, I think you were... What was your thing? Your handle? You were like... So our businesses best us, so we was best at Essex, my Instagram. So yeah, it wasn't actually my name, it was the company. this is a good lesson for everyone. So on socials, you were literally investor estate and even in your bio, you didn't have your name. You just said what it did. So obviously there was nowhere for me to fact check your name. And I was like, Rebecca, I think it's an R. I'm just going to run with Rebecca. Why not? We'll run with that. And you know, ever since then, I've been really scared to even attempt people's names. I know. So yeah, first of all, that's how our friendship started. So, Really, what I'd love to do today is to do a couple of things. So first of all, I would love for you to introduce yourself. You know, tell people a bit about your story and tell people about like how you even, like for example, I wanna know how you even came to wanting to open a sales and lettings agency. That is no easy feat under any circumstances. And I really wanna know kind of the journey for you in regards to how you got there. Like I'm interested in that. And then what I also want to do in this podcast is because I've never had anyone on who has been on the other side of things, let's call it in terms of lettings and sales, it's always been the other side where the girls are trying to get to get the deals. I'm really interested to have a conversation with you about that, about what life is like on the other side as well. So first of all, find that in the group because when I say we've had an exchange or we've had a completion, people are like, oh, what have you bought? was like, oh, no, no, I haven't bought it. We've sold it. We've sold a house. We've had a completion like that. That is how we earn our money by selling other people's houses. And they're like, oh, yeah, you forget that obviously there's two sides to that. Definitely, absolutely. it also shows how, you know, sometimes, not always, but sometimes people put like sales and lettings agents like on quite a pedestal as it were, like some, not for everyone, but some people listening to this might be feeling, no, you know, going to an agent's quite daunting. And what I hope from this podcast after listening to it is going, no, we're all just human beings. We're all just fun people and we can talk to anyone. And I want to really sort of almost remove all the barriers for everyone listening today. to feel like they can go into an agency tomorrow, today, and feel confident to do that. So before we delve sort of deep into that aspect of it, can you please introduce yourself, tell everyone about you, and like I said, how you then got to become investor estates. So I left school when I was 16 after my exams and I was due to go back to sixth form and study law. I can't even remember what else. Law was the main one. Do my 3A levels. And I got a job in an estate agents just for the six weeks holiday, basically for their holiday cover. So filing back then, it was actually printing. Folding franking putting in envelopes that the property details that was sent out. There was no email to do it and I absolutely Loved it. I loved everything about it. I being around the people the properties people coming in and Their stories behind why they're moving because everybody has a story behind why they're and yeah, I just I just fell in love with it. So I didn't go back to Sixth Form. I stayed there. And as soon as I was 17, I was like, when you pass your driving test, you can go out and do viewings. I was like, yes, this is goal. So yeah, as soon as I was 17, I'd done my driving test so I could go out and do viewings. And actually, I had the day off and I came in in the afternoon just so could go and do a viewing. I was like, yes, I can drive now. I'm going to go and do a viewing. So literally about three hours after I'd passed my driving test, I was out doing a viewing. Wow. So yeah, and then I stayed there and I sort of worked my way up different roles within the estate agency from office junior all the way up to senior negotiator. When I had my daughter, I had sort of done part time stuff. So I'd done a lot of sales progression. Yeah, and I say generally just done every aspect of estate agency. I've worked for independence and then larger. companies as well, more corporate companies. Sara Beeney's online estate agency, Tepello, was head of the state agency for that. And then when they moved up to London, I then decided it was best for me to be more local. So I started working with an investor here, project managing their properties. And then she's like, why have you never thought to... to open your own estate agency. I was like, I don't know really. I don't know why I haven't. And she was like, oh my God, you'd be amazing. Cause I sort of wrote all her processes and systems to keep her, run her business. She was like, you'd be amazing. You should do it. And then it wasn't really until COVID and I was like, hmm, one of those people in COVID, was like, what should I do? I'm a bit bored. Check the people who paid their rents. But other than that, that... So I done my CMAP, so I qualified as a mortgage broker. I've never ever used that. It was something to do. And I was like, people are like, yeah, we didn't do that in COVID, it's something to do. But yes, lockdown was getting my CMAP. And then when I come out, was like, no, I'm gonna do it. initially I started with EXP as a self-employed agency agent with EXP. and then met my business partner Pippa who'd done Lettings, I'd done the sales side, so we came together and we was like, you know what, it's costing us twice as much to run two different businesses, let's pull together and create one amazing business and do it how we want to, so that's what we did. Wow, I love that. And you know, this does not surprise me that during COVID you're like, right, I'm bored. I'm gonna go and become a mortgage broker. Like, why does that not surprise me about you? That's so you. It's like me, right? I got bored during COVID and went, right, I'm gonna learn all about property. Let's go on this two day, 99 pound course and then the next day buy a house. Like, we're literally the same. I love that. And... Do know what? I love your story as well. actually I didn't know that about you. And that's why I love doing this podcast. Like, I feel like I know you so well, but there's always things that you can learn more about people. And so I love the fact that you, you, you know, you found this, this business that you loved when you were at school and then just decided that you weren't going to go back and that you're ready for it. And as soon as you finished your driving test, you were like, right, I'm off to do viewings. I mean, let me ask you this, Rach. Like when you're thinking about viewings today and you think, Like they say you had to go and do a viewing in about an hour's time compared to that girl when she first started with all of that excitement in her heart. How do you feel you've now differed? Should we still get excited? Actually, viewings hasn't really changed. That is still my favourite part and there's a lot of talk in business and particularly in the estate agency of ten pound tasks, what people call ten pound tasks. As a business owner, don't do your ten pound tasks. But that's the bit I love. I can pay somebody to go and do viewings and yes, it would be probably cheaper than what... you would work out my hourly rate should or would be. But that's not why I own an estate agency. I own an estate agency because I love the people, I love the stories, I love, I like, I don't hate the admin side of it. I don't like the, I don't like the dealing with the solicitors bit. There's lots of bits I don't like about the business, but actually going to see people having that conversation while they're moving, that's still the bit I love. That's still hands down the best part, best bit. You're a people's person, definitely. do know what? A lot of people say about, I see there's quite a lot of paying staff to go out and do the viewings and things, but if you think about it, that's fine. But that is also about business development, isn't it? Like the person that shows up, that represents your company at that viewing is really important. It's not about paying 10 pounds to someone so that you can then go and sit at a desk and do all the other stuff. No, that's business development. That's the reason you have your business. I actually believe I'd rather pay the 10 pounds of someone to do the admin and I'd rather you go out and actually be front-facing to do it. especially for landlords when you're looking at tenants that viewing and it is more of an interview as an agent you're interviewing the tenant because if you've got especially at the moment you could have 10-15 people turn up for a viewing slot you want to pick the right person for the property for the landlord for them as well it has to be It has to be the right person and actually somebody who hasn't got the experience and there's sort of certain red flags after doing it for so long there's things that people will say that you think no you're not going to be right for this property because you want x and the landlord wants y so that's not going to work and there's certain things that you pick up through through experience that actually if you did pay somebody who'd not been doing it so long to do it you wouldn't have the same you wouldn't have the same result. I agree with you. I, this, this, this might hurt your ears when I say this, but I self manage my bitelettes. One of them, Tina, one of them. come onto this conversation actually, but my point is I self manage. So I do my own sort of viewings and getting the tenants in. And also when I was doing the rent rent HMOs, I was doing all the viewings as well. And you're absolutely right. Like it does take practice to do it, but there are certain things that you look for and you're right. What you're doing is you're interviewing them. You're asking them questions. You're thinking, is this a good fit? And I remember one of the best lessons I ever made was, I remember the very, very beginning when I was just starting to do the viewings, there was this guy that came called Chris and he was the nicest guy. Okay, I'm gonna make people laugh now. Basically, he came in and was like, yeah, this needs a tidy and I'm gonna bring this really amazing Hoover and he was just talking my language. I was like, yes, I really like you, you're cool. And he was just saying all the right things and I was like, I really like him, right? All of the signs were like, don't take him on, issues with credit, all sorts of things. I was like, no, he's gonna be great. Anyway, it turned out to be an absolute nightmare. You know, played the system, had clearly done it before. And it really taught me that I was like, right, I've got to be really vigilant when actually speaking to two people about, you know, what it is that they want, their backgrounds, their stories. And you're right, it is about matching up. And sometimes you can look at someone and go, I don't think you're the right fit. And it's about trusting your gut of kind of why. Like I've been in some crazy situations when I've gone and done my own viewings. you ever, do you remember the, I don't know if you ever listened to this podcast episode where I talk about my top five mistakes from my HMO days. Do you remember the story of when I had this like guy when I was at the Indian restaurant and I had to go out and do a viewing at 8 p.m. at night, which by the way, don't do, I don't recommend it, but I did. And he ended up being like, crazy literally and I was walking up the for anyone that hasn't listened to the episode really stupid I was in there on my own 8pm at night with this guy in a five bedroom HMO I don't recommend it and I said yeah it was a really bad idea of mine like I was like this is how I die I was like this is stupid really stupid and I was walking up the stairs and then I was about to walk up the stairs and I said to him oh you you go first and he said why is that so that you can kill me from behind and I was like oh my god like Literally I need to get out of here right now. And so, yeah, viewings are fun, but have you had your own stories with viewings where you've gone like, I don't know about this? had, I've had so many. I think probably one of my worst, all time worst viewings. I phoned the lady, I was in the office, phoned the lady. This was years and years years ago. If there's not somebody that's gonna hear this and come back to me. Phoned the lady. It was just a young couple that's property. She was like, yeah, yeah, I'm at work. He's at work. Knock yourself out. We had keys. I went round there as always, got there like 10 minutes before, opened the door but actually because it was a lunch break these viewers turned up early so I've opened up downstairs, opened the blinds, turned the lights on as you usually do and they've come and knocked on the door so I've let them in, we're walking around, everything they're loving it, making all the right noises, yep love this love this, went upstairs, opened the master bedroom and he was in bed with somebody that was not his wife. my god. was not his wife. I was like, shut the door again. They scrambled, got ready, showed them the second, it was only a two bedroom, so I only had another bedroom and a bathroom. I was like, you need to go, go. So they quickly got dressed, run out. And I never said anything to him and he never said anything to me about it ever. I it was a bit like, I got back to the office, I was like, what do I do? And the woman was like, the lady in the office was like, just don't say anything. Just keep it. And then, when we sold it, that couple actually bought the property and when they came to get that couple's property, they thought it was absolutely hilarious. They was an older couple downsizing and they thought it was hilarious, although I think that they think that it was his wife. I didn't say to them that it wasn't his wife. So I think they thought that it was his wife and they honestly was laughing. I thought, I've just got to go with this. I've just got to go with it. yeah it's funny yeah when they came when it sold and they came to say like give us the extra keys and what have you the wife is like come and say goodbye to Rachel like she's been so helpful she's been so lovely and he was like he could not make eye contact with me Okay, that is a story, Rach. That is a story. Yeah, been in loads of situations where I've thought this is how I'm gonna die. I've lost lost dogs. my god the time, the hours I've spent trying to round up a dog in the garden because they'll get people say don't let the dog out. Okay, the second you open that door that dog bolts you're like Get in, get in, come on! And I've literally tried everything. I've carried this big heavy dog like, come on, you need to get your reckon done. She said, you're not allowed out. Honestly, you should write a book. You really should. That is just brilliant. love it. See, this is why I love hearing the stories because now hopefully, you know, when someone's going in, we can think about asking even the agents about all the hilarious stories that they've got. There's so many of them. So many of them. my God. could actually, yeah, just obviously it's been 25, 26 years. So yeah, in all those years, there's all different. think you've just given me my favourite one though, I love that. I just don't know what I would do in that moment, I'd be like, my god. But yeah, I love that. You do, you do, lit, you, yeah, yeah, literally just, just carry on. Well, Rach, let me ask you then, so with all of these amazing experiences and all these amazing things that you're doing, what are you celebrating also at the moment? So I think my celebration is probably a little bit different to what I've been thinking about this because I knew you was going to ask me this question obviously in the podcast I was going to be prepared but I think actually my celebration at the moment is at least for this last couple of weeks of finding a balance I think it's really hard when you own your own business you've got whether you've got children or not but children add an extra layer so not that minor little children they're growing up but just any responsibilities that you have, as well as yourself trying to fit in, going to the gym, eating healthily, doing stuff that you enjoy doing, not just stuff that you have to do. just that whole bubble that is life, I feel like at the moment I've got a good balance. So yeah, I feel like I need to celebrate that because I think you actually, and your balance definitely changes. depending on the age of your children or the age of your business, where you are in your business, just lots of things can change it. And I'm very aware that next week something could come along and change it again. But for the moment, yeah, I've got that balance. I feel a peaceful, I don't go to bed and think, guilty because I feel guilty because I haven't done this or I haven't spent time with this person or this needed more attention because I'm managing. managing it all at the moment. wow, I'm so happy for you, honestly. Like that just is music to my ears because it is an easy rage. Like we all know this, right? And all the listeners will know this. It's not easy when you're trying to juggle a business such as yours, you know, which has got so many different moving parts and being a mum, no matter what age they are, we never stop needing our mums, let's face it. And, you know, I obviously know you as a friend and there are times when, you for both of us, it's like, you know, this week's challenging, this week is better. And so to hear you say that actually you've managed to find at the moment the balance within yourself, like that makes me really happy for you. And especially like, I love seeing you the fact you're, you know, you're being healthy. You know, I'm a massive promoter of that, trying to be at least in terms of, you know, health is wealth. And I truly believe that. Are you still having all your hot chocolates as well though with it? I'm being good. I've swapped over. I love a hot chocolate. I love a hot chocolate. No, I have been good and yeah, less hot chocolates. But just as I just generally making time for things for yourself as well. I think it is a massive juggle. And I think probably in my 42, well, not 42 years, but obviously not when you was a kid, but in my working life, I've not. probably had more times when it's not been a right a good balance than it has but I definitely think you need to celebrate even if you've you're not buying a house or you're not making a big move in property or you're not adding zeros to your monthly or annual income actually if you've just got balance then that is something to celebrate Honestly, that was beautiful. Exactly. No, no, no, I loved it. Exactly, Rach. Like exactly. And you know what? I, yes, yes, yes. And I genuinely believe that it's priceless. Like I really do. I swear to you, I would rather be at peace within myself and have my health, which, because life is so short and I really realize this more than ever now, rather than having all of these zeros on your bank account. It's like, that's all great, but I'd rather just be happy. Honestly, like I know that sounds really corny, but... I think that as, do you feel like maybe as we get older? Maybe? definitely think it's as you get older. think your perspective definitely changes. And I think, yeah, what you value changes. I think that's what it is. think what you value changes as you get older. That's it. What you value. I really love that. I really, really love that. Yes. And actually on that subject of celebration. So when this podcast actually comes out, which is going to be on Monday, let me just check the date actually. So this podcast is coming out on Monday the 20th. And on Monday the 20th, I'm not gonna be in the UK. I'm gonna be abroad. Yay! And the reason is, is because my mum basically works for a travel company, like a manager quite high up and stuff. And so she can get really amazing last minute discounts on holidays. And she like messaged me the other day and she was like, you fancy going away for a week? And I was like, I'm going to need to take my laptop, like I've got work to do. And she was like, that's fine. Let's just go get some sunshine. I was like, I'm in a hundred percent. If I can just carry on working, all I need is a laptop and a mobile phone. That's all I need. as long as I can carry on doing what I'm doing, but do it from the sunshine, like, let's do it. So I'm not calling it a holiday. I'm calling it working in the sunshine. But I am working the sunshine. So when this podcast episode will be going out on Monday, I will be listening to it. Hopefully with a nice drink, know, cold drink in my hand, not with a jumper on. Yeah. Hopefully. thing. bikini listening to it, know, smiling away. So yeah, I'm celebrating, I suppose that I'm celebrating the fact that I've now built this life where I can make those decisions. I can say yes. You know, this notion before when, cause I worked as a travel agent. Of course I couldn't just take time off. You'd at least have to swap with someone else within your shop. Cause it was a retail job effectively. I'd have to ask, they'd say no. I'd then lose out on all these opportunities. Whereas now I'm like, let me just check with the boss. look, the boss says, yes, let's go. And I think that's a really cool thing to celebrate. I think that that's really, you know, amazing to do. And I don't know about you, Rach, but I obviously I've got my own friendship group, which aren't, which aren't, not in business, you know, they've got their, their standard jobs as they were. I've got lots of different friendship groups, but I was particularly with this other one last night. And I told them that I was going away again. And I remember thinking to myself, I've got to tell them that I'm not going to be here. I'm going to be away again." And I almost felt for some reason like this element of like, I don't know what the word is to use, but like, no, I've got to tell them this. And their reaction was the reaction I was expecting, which was taking the absolute piss out of me basically. Being like, she's away again. And it's funny, isn't it? It's funny that we feel that we have to have that guilt or we have to have that... don't even know what the right word is, but I did feel a sense of guilt almost having to tell them this, do you know what I mean? Yeah, you know how I like a self-development book, but, and I think it all comes back to that side of things, all comes back to our worry about what people think and our so, we're so hung up on what other people think. And I think again, as you get older, you do it less, but it's definitely something on the self-development side that I've worked on myself because I was a massive people pleaser and a massive. definitely worried about what people would think and what people would say and yeah, trying to get over that. Do know who I'm trying to listen to at the moment? I absolutely love her as Mel Robbins. The let them. So do you know what? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go back on something because this was a section for celebrations in the podcast, not self doubt, not worrying. So I'm gonna do the whole Mel Robbins let them and I'm gonna say, I'm celebrating the fact that I'm in Egypt next week when I get to work in sunshine and listen to the podcast, end of. 100%. So we'll do that. from a psychological perspective, it is an interesting conversation, isn't it? This notion where we are happy, we are proud of ourselves, loving life every single day, but you do still have an element of guilt. But as I said to my friends last night, whilst I'm young, whilst I've got no dog and no kids and no responsibility, I'm going to go live my best life. Because as soon as that all changes... Yeah. a home bird. you know, why not as it were? Yay. Okay, Rach, so let's delve deep into kind of looking at you in terms of a sales and lettings manager and looking at it from let's call it the other side of things. first of all, you just have curiosity? Do you actually get sort of investors coming to you asking you to find them properties or even the whole rent to rent side of things, know, corporate lets, you get anything like that? Yeah, so more so, because we're in Essex, it's a little bit, but we're more so investors looking for properties that they can do up and flip or change into HMOs. HMOs are very popular. We've got a couple of big hospitals near us, Chelmsford University. So yeah, that is probably more so. get those. those investors come to us. Rent to rent, think the biggest problem with rent to rent is having a conversation and having and building a relationship. think actually, and I do get it and letting agents for initial thought, especially at the moment when you can rent a house in. matter of hours the market is that buoyant and a letting agent's initial thought is no won't do that because I think a lot of that is because one the understanding and the structure that it's built on and two it's knowing the person and building up a reputation so I think even if you're if you're looking to go into rent to rent I think the biggest thing would be don't it's not going to be an overnight thing. Property of any description, this is probably my biggest belief in any of it, property in any way, shape or form is a people business, not a property business, it's a people business. So if you're looking to go into rent to rent, speak to the agents, talk to them, let them know what you're doing, how you're doing it, and add something for them, add some value for them so that it's... it's a two-way street and that's how you're going to get an agent to work with you to do rent-to-rent. Hmm. Yeah, fantastically said. These are the questions I really want to ask because it's so interesting. I completely agree with you when you said it's a people business. you know, I suppose if we just stay on this subject just for the moment, just because we do have a couple of, well, few listeners who do do Rent to Rent, so I'm sure that they'd be really interested in this. You know, there are, let's face it right, there are a lot of people that do these courses where they say to you, can get into property with no money, no money down. all of this kind of aspect of it. And then they go straight from this three day course directly to the agent and they go, hi, do have any rent-to-rent properties? And it's like, that just isn't how it works. And I feel, I don't know if you agree with this, I feel that sometimes if an agent doesn't actually understand something, what they'll do is they'll pass the buck onto the landlord. So what they'll say to you is, is they'll say, the landlord isn't interested in that. they haven't even spoken to the landlord. No, and I think, yeah, 100%, 100%, if they, for the agent, it's another person involved in it. And the same as we were saying, when you're going around and you're interviewing a tenant to move on and viewing your interview in the tenants, make sure it's a good fit. That AST might be for six months or a year. If on a rent to rent, you're doing that on a three year or a five year, the agent is going to be dealing with you for three to five years. They're not going to deal with just anybody. You could be the biggest pain in their bum ever. If they don't know you, they don't know that you are, but they don't know that you're not either. So they're not going to risk their landlord and having to have a relationship with you for the next five years without knowing you. No one would do that. Would you work with a business partner guaranteed for five years not knowing them at all? Yeah. You would have to know somebody to be able to commit to three to five years working with them. And I think, like you say, that's, and I know you've said it before, if you're not a people person, it doesn't mean that you can't do property, but team up with someone. Because if you're not, team up with a people person, team up with somebody who's gonna go in, build a rapport with the agents. take them donuts and sit at their desk and go, oh, how are you doing? And have that chat and be their friend or someone they know or even better still, I would actually say if you're serious long-term looking at getting a property and you really wanna quit your job, get a job in an estate agents or letting agents because they're always, estate agents and letting agents are always crying out for people and you won't get any better experience than that. hands on and just you then network with the state agents and you're going to events with other letting agents, you're swapping keys with other agents and you're chatting to them and you're building that rapport so then when you go and do your service accommodation you know these people they know you they know you've been in in the game even if you're there a year you've worked in a state agency for a year you've got that that contact and it gives you an income while you're doing your education and building up your what you want to do. Yeah, I love that. Exactly. Fantastic advice as I knew you would give. the other thing is, is what we've got to think about also, and this is something I always bring up straight away when I'm ever speaking to the agents to make sure that we're always on the same page. Like also, I believe that their fear for rent to rent is that they think that you're going to steal the landlord, you're going to steal their customer and that you're going to cut them out. That's what their fear is. So they think, right, I'm going to show this to you and you're going to cut me out. And so I always just bring it up because I'm like, this is what you think. So let's just talk about it. Let's talk about the elephant in the room, shall we? And so I always make sure that they're aware that this is a joint relationship. There's no cutting. And also there's no reason to cut them out. Because if you cut them out, you sort of shoot yourself in the foot a little bit. I'm like, I'm not interested in cutting you out. This is just one of 10 deals that I wanna do with you. And like you said, you know, there are ways and there are ways of having conversations and maybe some deals that can be done. in regards to how it can benefit them also. know, one can lead into two, can lead into three, maybe, I don't know, like for me, I always used to learn, you've got to be quite careful because you never want to feel like you're bribing them. And there's obviously rules around that and what you can do. But of course you can find out what their favorite drink is. You can find out what their favorite coffee is. Yeah, donuts, all of those and just do it. And Rach, what about this one then? Just as a second question, I was speaking to somebody the other day, one of my mentees and I'm actually, interesting your answer to this. And she's looking for actually, it's not rent to rent, it's separate to this. It's looking for her for a next investment property. And she said to me that she'd called the agents and I said, when was the last time you spoke to them about an opportunity? And she says, a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, then they tell me that they'd said that they would email me or they'd let me know once they found something. And I was saying to her, you need to be proactive with the agent. Like you can't just wait for an agent to call you now that you're on their books, they've probably got a hundred people on their books that they probably work really closely with, even builders in the area, that you need to be at the forefront of their mind or you need to call them and have the absolute best luck that at that exact time, they've just gone out and just got back from a viewing that hasn't even touched right move yet that they can then go and see. And her response was slightly on the edge of not wanting to bother them, not wanting to badger them, not wanting to be like that. So what's your opinion about how to be reactive with this? Yeah, no, I definitely think being proactive is the best way. Ultimately, an estate agent's job is to sell a property. So they want to sell a property to you, particularly if you're an investor, you've not got a chain. You're a good buyer. So keep that relationship going. mean, we... I got text messages or WhatsApps from investors saying, happy new year, Rach or Merry Christmas, Rach. Hope you and the family have a lovely day. And so just having that relationship with them, when we have got properties come on that actually would work for their strategy, the other thing is getting to know them. They then know what your strategy is, what you're looking for, because we've got one particular investor, say he... loves a HMO, loves changing properties into HMOs. So if I go out and I see a property that is going to be suitable for him, I would phone him up straight away before we've even put it on the market, before we've done anything, I would phone him up and say, look, we've got this property, it be an ideal for an HMO, do you want to do it as a one off view? Come and have a look as a one off viewing. And he'll be like, yeah, yeah, I'll meet you there. And he's always there, he always turns up, he never misses an appointment, he does what he says he's going to do, he's honest. So once you put all those things together, that's why I call that investor when we have that property coming. So I know what he wants. I know he's not messing me around. If he's not interested, he will tell me on the day, no, I don't think the figure is gonna stack up for me. Or as soon as he knows, he'll say, no, I don't think the figure is gonna stack up for me, which is absolutely fine. As long as you know, actually telling an agent one thing, honesty is always the best policy because building a relationship so even if it's not for you or you think it's going to be a bit of an awkward conversation you can't quite go to the figure that the agent is going to want for it blah blah blah tell them say it sometimes it's pushing yourself out your comfort zone especially if you are a people pleaser but you need to be honest because otherwise you'll end up burning your bridges with that agent and then it's it's not a relationship And then, say, going backwards and forwards, he always rents his properties out through us as well. So once he buys them, he rents them out through us. If he does a flip, he's done a couple of flips, and again, he's sold through us. So we've now got this ongoing relationship of backwards and forwards, and we've both done things for each other. And again, sometimes it's false economy. go, I'm going to rent it through this agent because they're cheaper. Well, actually, if you've built a rapport with an agent that you know is giving you properties and supplying you with investment properties, pay the extra, pay the extra and get them to rent it out for you because it's going to pay off for you in the long run. That's fantastic advice. Exactly. And just going back to this one, if we can use this chap as an example, if that's okay. So now he's in a position where you're calling him, bringing him deals before they hit the market. I mean, quite frankly, that is where any investor really wants to be in my eyes, because, you know, rather than us having to sit and troll through Rightmove and Zoopla and all these other platforms, and also quite frankly, having to pay a saucer even to try and find these deals, you want to almost get the agent to do the work for you, if that makes sense, and create that win-win. So at the very beginning, if you can remember kind of the initial conversations you ever had with this guy, before you knew how credible he was, before you knew anything about him, how did he build that relationship with you? What did he do? It was the continuity. he would be contacting me and he'd say, we've got this one, we're looking at this, we're looking at that. And actually he's bought properties that haven't been through us, but he said, if I pay you, can you come and I appreciate your opinion. I don't want to, the agent that's selling it is obviously going to tell me if I do it up, I can get X for it. And if I put it on the rental market, I'm going to get Y for it. said, but I want, I'd rather have your opinion because they're going to say that because they want the sale. So I've gone out and gone on viewings with him for other properties and it's worth it because then that property was that was a couple of three, four years ago and he's still renting that property. So we've had the management fee on that for however many years because I went to have a look at it and he looked at it So it is just building that relationship and having just been I know this sounds weird, but just be normal. Just be normal. Don't be investery. Don't be stuck up. Don't be, you know it all because you've done a cause. Don't be, don't know anything. Be honest where you are, what you do know and what you don't know. It doesn't matter if it's more or less than the agent. Just be honest of where you are and yeah, you'll work together so much better. Yeah, I love that. It's hard to say, isn't it? Just be normal. Just be normal. Don't go in there with any sort of... I think that people swung in there like as if... I don't know, some people don't have enough confidence, some people have too much confidence. Just completely be yourself. How you would normally. There's no... it's not an act, it's not a... Just be normal. As if you was going in talking to one of your friends. Yeah, and if you go in for the first time and you're like, God, that didn't go that well, that doesn't mean that that's the end of the conversation. Call them next... Well, true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, that... Yeah. and you think, I don't know what, I actually don't. And again, it works both ways, especially for a rent-to-rent scenario where you're going to be in that relationship with them for five years. You might think, I do not want to work with that agent for the next five years. No. I'm so glad that you just said that Rach, because I feel like I'm allowed to now say it. So, do you know what's really funny? So I've got a couple of my family members now, kind of like cousins and second cousins, who actually went to Bournemouth University. And they're going through the whole process of living in student HMOs and everything. And I know Bournemouth, obviously Asians quite well. know, you know, as long as they don't change too frequently. than I know kind of the OGs, let's call them. And so I'll say, who are you renting from? And I don't want to say the agent just in case they're listening to the podcast, because I'm going to slate them. But she was like this particular agent in Bournemouth. And I went, and I'm going to use a pseudo name. This isn't his actual name. This is a different name. I'm going to call him, what should I call him? I'm going to call him Carl. Let's call him Carl. So I was like, is it Carl that you're dealing with at this particular agent? She was like, yes. And I went, mm-hmm. And does he speak like this, this, this? She's like, yes. I'm like, yeah, he's a dick. I'm like, don't deal with him. I went to evaluation and as I said to the lady, I spoke to on the phone, I said, get more than one valuation. I always say that to people. I'm not frightened of competition. This is what we do. This is who we are. It's either for you or it's not. But get three different valuations. So as I'm coming out of as I'm coming up to the property, The agent before was coming out and it's a guy that I used to work with He says to me. Oh, hello, sweetheart How's a little business going? Yeah, good. Thank you. I said to him how's his wife and his kids? And he made some other weird comment and then off off he toddled good luck or something like that and enough he toddled The woman was absolutely mortified. She's that I am so sorry I cannot believe he just spoke to you like that. Like that's absolutely awful. So he talked himself out of a property instruction there just by being a dick. She was like, he, that is awful. Like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, no, no, no, it's absolutely fine. She said, I've had, she said, I've done what you said. She said, no, actually I've got four agents around to do evaluations. I was like, oh yeah. She said, I had, I wanted you to come last so that, could chat through you I was like yeah no that's fine she's like I actually wouldn't work with any of them she said not just I want to work with you over them she was like three guys have come and I would not have I would not work with any of them and I think it it has got to work both ways whether you're buying selling you're investing looking at rent to rent a landlord or whatever it is a relationship that hopefully you're going to be in not so much with selling because obviously hopefully it's not going to be too long but it could be a relationship that you're in for a long time so you need to make sure you get the right fit for you. He actually said to you, how's that little business of yours going? your little business going? Yeah good thank you. I'm here the same as you are. Yeah yeah we sold it. really hope you messaged him and you went, another one for my little business. Yeah, we sold it. was like, my. But you know what, so happy actually that the homeowner saw that happen as well because do you know what, Rach, like it happens to all of us, it really does. And I haven't experienced it too much recently, but certainly last year and the year before that. I don't know if they think that they're being polite or I don't know if they feel that they're being, because they don't know our name, I don't know what it is. But this use of babe, sweetheart, sweetie, God, there's so many of them. The first time they do it to me, I cringe inside, but I carry on the conversation. The second time they do it to me, I'm like, And then the third time they do it to me, I'm like, please don't call me that. My name's Athena, if you're unaware of what my name is. And they're mortified. he was definitely, it was a bit like when you're going up against a competition or opponent and you're out going to play a game of sports or something and you want to throw the other person off their game. That is definitely how and why he done it. But again, even in that scenario, whether you're going in to speak to an agent or you're an agent going out, if you're yourself, nothing can put you off of being yourself because that is you, that is you. If I was going in there putting on an act then yeah that might have put me off of my game a little bit like where am I that's what I would be thinking about but I'm not I'm going in there as me I had a conversation with her the same as Do you know what it is just thinking about this in its most simplest term, just trying to think about the listeners is what I'd say to everyone is we are business owners. The majority of people who listen to this podcast are business owners and are choosing to be business owners even if you're in full-time employment, you're listening to this for a reason. And I'd say that when you're thinking about how you would want someone to do business with you, let's say we're all service providers. So let's say that we're sitting there and we want to sell our house. you know, or we want to sell something or even if we just want to go and have a service, I don't know, a haircut, a nail salon, wherever it may be, how would you want someone to show up for you? How would you want them to treat you? How would they want, how would you want them to speak to them? Think about all of that and just be exactly the same when you're then going out and doing your level of work. So even simple things like networking, you need to be the same offline as you are online. You can't be this really confident showy off kind of Rolls Royce person online and then get into a room with all these other people and become like a little mouse it's like no you've got to be consistent and so yeah I think just be you show up with respect treat everyone the same and you know what price isn't always going to be the factor it it really isn't and sometimes we've I've actually done deals where how I've managed to get deals we're speaking about what's in it for the agent where the commission might have been, I don't know, we'll just call it one and a half percent for now. And as long as the numbers work, of course, but I'll either say, I'll tell you what, I'll also give you an additional, we'll call it consultation fee on top of that, or I'll do like an extra percent and we'll call it two and a half. And suddenly they then have the motivation behind it to then go forward. It's slightly easier when you've got smaller agents as opposed to bigger agents who have set ways, it gets a bit trickier, but I always like working with the smaller agents. Yeah. just because we have a sort of a fun relationship. and I think even if you work with bigger agents I think don't work with them necessarily on an agency basis, work with a negotiator, a particular negotiator that you're building that rapport with. One because it's going to be harder for you to build a rapport with five, six agents that are in that office rather than just one. They could all work differently so you're trying to learn how they all work rather than just how one person works and let's say it's a people business, you can get to know that one person and build a good reputation and a good rapport with that one person. Speaking of that, so I did that right, I built this rapport with this one guy over in my area and we had like the best thing going and I was like, yes, this is great. And it just worked, it really did. And then he moved. He was like, he's like, Athena, I've got something to tell you, I'm moving to Salisbury. And I was like, no, you can't move. So I lost my guy basically. And I was like, man, I'm gonna have to start all over again. So maybe pick one or two so that if you do lose one of them, if they move, at least you got a backup. Yeah, definitely. I love that. Okay, so we've gone through the idea and the notion of speaking to agents and that type of thing. What about you did an amazing thing in the girls and property community group regarding kind of letters. So a lot of people listening to this send letters and you know, they're usually called direct to vendor letters and you gave some really good tips about that. So if anyone was sat thinking, right, today's the day I'm gonna create a letter. to go and try and find my next investment property, let's call it. Simple flip, simple buy refurbished rent refinance. What is your advice to them? Again, make it personal. think that's probably, and it is great. know you have templates and things. Get a template and use that as your basis, but use your language. Don't use Athena's language. Don't use anybody else's language. Use your own language. And when I send some examples out to the girls, I always say, rewrite it, however you have it you still want to rewrite it just so that it sounds like you because that letter that I'm sending you will sound like me because I wrote it. So however you sign off, however everything about it just needs to be you. Always, always put a photo on there. People like to see and know who they're speaking to and who they're dealing with. They don't want a big corporate or big company. Use your name, use your photo. always put your socials on there because that gives you social proof basically actually social media I've got a lot of followers on my social media and I get a good response but actually social media isn't necessarily about selling because I'm not an influencer I'm an estate agent that is social proof so that people can go on there and see my videos about freehold and leaseholds, my videos about market updates, my videos about what's selling over this or what's selling over that, why the difference in types of buyers and the first time buyers and all those things that have me. it's basically, it's the no like and trust thing. When they hear you think, oh, yeah, she knows what she's talking about. And again, I do it sitting here in my jumper. as me, like you said, what you are online, because it's no good me being some polished, in a suit, looking swanky on my social media and then I turn up to see them to do a valuation on their house and that's not me. So yeah, making sure that you get that right and I say your social media really is your social proof rather than trying to sell. I never use my social media to be like, come and sell your house with me. It's more of a something that they can go and have a look at to know that I know my stuff and introduce them to me before I go round because it's massive inviting somebody into your house, complete stranger into your house to come and have a look and tell you how much house is worth. Always never, never, never frank a letter. Always use a stamp. always hand write and I know there's lots of companies out there that will send your letters for you and I would really recommend not doing that. It might be cheaper per letter, I'm sure it probably is, but they will frank it, they won't use a stamp, it won't be a written address, it will be a printed envelope and the letter just won't sound like you, it won't have your tone, it won't have your voice. So yeah, just really make it as personal as you can and be honest with people, why are you looking for their property? Why do you want their property? How's that going to work for them and what's the benefit of it for them? So if you're going to go and buy their property, does it mean that they can take as long as they want to find a property? They won't have agency fees, they won't have... What are the benefits? to them because ultimately as human beings what people want to know is what's in it for me? So tell them, tell them from the beginning. Absolutely. And I always say this, like, I think if you're thinking about it, these people that you're buying the houses from, they sometimes aren't even in the world of property investing. They literally just own a house. That's all it is. And so they don't want all the fancy jargon. They don't want you almost coming across even as a property investor, because some of them might even turn their nose up and go, I don't want to give it to you, you know, this notion that we're buying up all the houses and not leaving anything for anyone else. You almost want to come across just as a sim, like not simple, but just as a person to be like, hey, you know, I live in this area. I've sometimes done it where I've said, you know, I live in this area and I'm looking at potentially, which is true, I'm looking at potentially getting my mum to move down to the area. I saw your house, it'd be great to have a conversation. And to be fair, that's 100 % true because mum is looking at moving down to the area. So it could work for her or it could work for an investment property. So it's one of those and then therefore they're more likely to call as a result of that. Yeah. Yeah. Rach, I've absolutely loved this and I've loved almost having it where we get to hear from you and we get to hear from, you know, Lettings and Sales Manager to be like, sorry, Lettings and Sales owner, apologies, to be like, a manager and owner, to be like, you know, this is, you're reconfirming everything that's hopefully they know or hopefully things that have been said, which is so important to show that there is no magic. There is no like secret hidden language that some people know that others don't. It really is just be yourself and that's it in a nutshell. And what I'd love to do actually on a different podcast, because I know that as a side to the property world, let's call it, all about multiple streams of income, which I know that we love, you also do some fantastic content creation as well. And so I think what I'd love to do is actually get you on again, but on a separate episode to talk all about content creation, if that's okay with you, because I feel like this episode has been so amazing from the property perspective. And I really wanna keep that and get that out to everyone. on the back for keeping it in this time. feel like I thought we was gonna, we'll end up chatting. Well, we probably still could, but we'd end up chatting for about five hours. The world's longest podcast. Honestly, Rach, me and you could literally, as we do, we just sat for hours and just chat. Rach, if it's okay, one of the things I just want to finish on the podcast with, if that's okay and if you don't mind, is, I'm actually curious about this as well, is you are one of my first community members for Girls and Property to come on the podcast. And what I'd actually love to know, because I don't know if I exactly know the story of this, but I thought I'd keep it till the end. Do you know how you came across Girls and Property and me in the first place? Do you remember? It was Instagram. It was Instagram. we, I, I saw you on Instagram or the Girls in Property pod on Instagram. And I thought, it's podcasts. Cause obviously as ever there's women and property. It's there's definitely way more now than it was when I started like 25 years ago. think we had our first Christmas do in like a Masonic Lodge and there was about three women in the whole entire room and I was like 16, 17 and I was like so yeah it's changed massively but we've still got a way to go and I'm always always looking out for things like that so yeah saw it on Instagram and then thought oh I'll have to the pod a listen and then I Yeah, binged on all the episodes up until that point and I was like, I need to message you and say just how good it is and how amazing the podcast and the information is that's out there and join the community from there. I it. And then I just call you Rebecca for about another month after that. I love that. And if you were to say, cause I always find it's difficult for me because obviously I feel like I'm biased because you my heart and soul is with the community and how much I love it. If you were to say what you enjoy most about the community or the events that are put on for Girls and Property, what is it that drew you to join the community and remain a part of it? I think so there's there's two things really one that made me want to join and be part of it and still be part of it is the community aspect. No one is out for themselves everybody is out to help each other and everybody will give each other as much advice or like said I put the director vendor letters in there other ladies have put other bits and pieces in there and I mean there's nothing better than learning from other people's mistakes. If it's a mistake that you don't have to make yourself, like the ladies have been honest, there's no flowering it up in there. They'll be honest and go, ladies, this was a mistake. The same as they do when they celebrate a win as well. It's both, again, it comes back to being honest, authentic, and being yourself. So that really helps. But I think the thing that I loved most about, this is more so the event than the the community as such. But the thing that I love most about the Girls in Property Gala is there was so much confidence in that room. So much confidence. And I've been to a lot of property events, property awards throughout the years. And it's definitely growing. But most of the time it's men on stage, it's men and it is very, very male dominated. And to be in a room where everybody just had, not just necessarily in property, everybody just had the confidence to get up and dance and everybody had the confidence to talk to people that they didn't know and everybody had the confidence just to be themselves in that room and that was just, I think that was the best, I mean all of the gala was amazing and I'm not putting your hard work down, everything, because I know you worked so hard on that but that for me was the best thing about the gala. Absolutely. And what about your table pieces that you made and helped me with? Rach was an amazing help at the gala. And do know what, can I just say also, that's what I love about the community is, you straight away reached out to me and were like, Athena, what do you need? What do you need help with? Alex reached out to me and she's like, right, how can I help you? So many girls on the morning were like, we're getting there early. What do you need us? What can we set up? that's what it's all about. It's about coming together, collaborating together and being a part of what it is that we wanna represent in this industry. And that's what I love most. And the community is really growing. Sometimes the questions I get asked Rach is kind of people who are starting out, they're really concerned that there are lots of people such as yourself who are really experienced and therefore they're not gonna be able to contribute or know that much. But it's not like that, is it? There's all sorts of differences there. No, and everybody's doing different things and things in this industry changed. The estate agency and lettings world as well as the investment world, things change all the time. Like I know you say, you've said it before, there's people that have done things 30 years ago that stand up on a stage and say, this is how you do it. But that was how you do it 30 years ago. And I've definitely learned things from you and some of the girls in the group that have been doing things six months. that they've come across this because you can't come across every single scenario no matter how long you've done it and they say, I think everybody's and it's a lot of it is personal, it's personal opinion and personal preference. So I think actually it's nice to somebody who maybe you've only been doing it six months but has chosen a particular strategy. It's really interesting I find to find out. think why they're using that strategy, how it's worked for them. So yeah, I don't think that that's an issue at all. No, think everybody loves listening to everybody's opinion in the group. Yeah, you're so right, aren't you? Like sometimes you'll get somebody who is a bit newer to the game, but they'll give some incredible advice or a mistake that you've made. I'm like, that's actually really handy because I'm just about to go and do that. And so everybody, I want to say that everyone, believe it, whether you believe this or not within yourself has something to give, whatever it may be, you have something to give. And if you are starting your journey, I've said this time and time again, and I'll say it again, accountability is everything. you know, having a group of people around you who support you is everything. And yeah, I can't wait for April. The date has not been announced yet, Rach, so we can't say the date, but the wait list is actually coming out this week for the retreat. There is only a maximum of 80 seats available. I want to keep it, I? I know this doesn't sound small to others, but for me, this is small. So I want to keep it to 80 because 80 worked well last time. We sold out six weeks in advance last year. So I want to go. go for sooner than that. But more than 80 have told me they're coming, so this is going to be hilarious. But yeah, it's going to be amazing. I've got speakers coming. I presume you're going to be there, Rach, as always. And yeah, let's just get some amazing women in a room together. if someone was thinking about, like, if you were going to, if someone was to message me and you were going to respond just as a takeaway for someone to join the community or to attend the retreat, what would you reply to them as me? Or as you? What would you reply to them as you? I would definitely say it's worth joining the community and if you're not sure on that, come to the retreat and be there and meet those people and then you will have no doubt in your mind to join the community. think there is so many people that I sat with and chatted to at the gala that weren't part of the community and they're like, I can't believe this. I was like, I know, I've got to join the community now. you just get that energy. mean, the community is great and doing the online things and then when you get everybody together in a room as well, it is just electric. So yeah, I definitely think there's a million and one reasons to join the community. But I think when, if you really want to see it for yourself, come to the event and you'll know instantly why you should join the community. I love that. Thank you, Rach. Yeah, I love that. Come and see it for yourself, I would say. And I know you love putting on events yourself. I know that you have such a wonderful life of detail. And I am, alert, thinking about potentially some much, much smaller in-person events for 2025 in Girls and Property. So watch this space and yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited to see how we can all take off. But Rach, thank you so much for coming on today. Honestly, it's been so helpful. I've loved it and I am gonna get you back on again where we can do more around content creation because a lot of women also do and guys but do still need help with content creation social media and you can you can really help them with that as well. So I'm gonna get you back on again, but Rach I'm sure a lot of people are gonna want to you know, speak to you. Somebody might send you a Rebecca message just for a laugh. You never know. That's what I would do if it were me. I'd be like, hi Rebecca, cause then it'll just make you laugh. So if people want to find you now, cause I appreciate that your Instagram handle has changed, how can people find you? So it's at content. content rage, just search content rage, it? Content underscore rage, that's it. At content underscore rage, see that I'm rubbish, aren't I? But yeah, come and see me and yeah, it's just all things, property, people, a like a digital business card. Of all the things that I love doing. I love that. It's you and I think you're a fantastic, amazing person. I think the world needs more Rachel's. I really do. And if you want to find me as always, I'm Girls in Property on Instagram. I'm also on Instagram with my personal page, Athena Dobson, underscore official. And then if you want to have a look at wait list for the retreat, or if you want to have a look at any information about Girls in Property, simply go to Girls in Property. Oh my God, Rachel, I'm forgetting my own thing here. Let me start again. Go to... www.girlsinproperty.co.uk. There we go. It shows you we don't edit the podcast. It's nice and raw. So yeah, go to girlsinproperty.co.uk. Check out the wait list will be on there. Tickets will be out soon. I am gonna be releasing a save the date, but what I can tell you, it is going to be at the end of April. So keep the end of April free. And as always, any questions that you've got, DM me. If you wanna know more about the community, DM me the word community. I've also got my mindset accelerator course, which is completely free if you want to improve some of your mindset. So keep in touch message. I always love receiving your messages and everyone have the most amazing week, amazing Monday. I hope to not send you too many sunny pictures whilst away and yeah, enjoy and any feedback, let me know. Thanks, Rach. Thanks guys. Bye.