From 0 to 5 Properties in Under a Year: Lucinda Axelsson’s Journey of Resilience and Success

In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, host Athena Dobson interviews Lucinda Axelsson, a former TV producer turned thriving property investor. Lucinda shares her inspiring journey of resilience and transformation after overcoming personal and professional challenges, including a divorce and career shift. Since beginning her property journey in February 2024 under Athena's mentorship, Lucinda has built an impressive portfolio that includes one buy-to-let and five HMOs (Houses of Multiple Occupation). 

During their conversation, Lucinda and Athena explore why HMOs are her strategic choice for cash flow, the valuable lessons learned from setbacks, and the role of positivity, self-belief, and mentorship in helping her silence doubts and embrace her ambitions. This episode is a powerful discussion on authenticity and the importance of surrounding yourself with the right environment to achieve success. 

My hope is that this conversation inspires you to believe in yourself, overcome fears and doubts, and move forward with purpose, confidence, and resilience.

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So we are back. Welcome back. I know I took a week off last week just because there was so much going on with being away and trying to organize everything. But we are back with a bang. And as I've said before on this podcast many, many times, I love getting different types of people on this podcast at different stages of their journey, different lives that they've lived as well. and different kind of life experiences that they've had. And I absolutely had to get this person on the podcast today. well, she can introduce herself, but all I'm gonna say is what a woman, what an absolute powerhouse woman she is. And I can't wait for all of you to get to know her a little bit better today. So I would love to introduce Lucinda Akkoson. Hiya. Let's just be clear. I know I've got a real awkward name. Ackleson. Yeah, Ackleson. Who's Ackleson? I'm going to forgive you. It's okay. I have to forgive everybody because no one can spell my name, no one can say my name. are you but- do you know it's because I write your surname all the time but I never actually have to say it. name and it was my married name and I am thinking about going back to my maiden name which is Ashton which is so much easier. Everyone can pronounce Ashton, everyone can spell Ashton. So anyway, anyway, hello. Hello. And you know what? Then you get to keep your initials as well. It will still be LA. There you go. There you go. well, do you know what? I'm going to blame my dyslexia, but still. So, hello. Welcome to the Girls and Property podcast. Hello. Thank you very, very much for having me. I'm completely thrilled to be on here and I really hope I can give something of interest to the people that listen to this podcast. I have absolutely no doubt that you will. I'm so, so excited for everybody to get to know you a bit more and to really hear about your background and your journey and where you've come from or where you are now. And do you know what, Lucinda, like when people speak to me about you who meet you, they're like, my God, what a woman. Like that's always what they say. And I'm like, I know, I know. Well, I would describe myself as a kind of a high frequency, high energy person. You know, I just kind of like, I think I was born with a certain sort of energy about me and that has just propelled me through my life really. And I think, you know, if you've got it, then you're very, very lucky. It's sort of one of those things. I try to just radiate positivity. I think that's my biggest. sort of skill if you like is trying to to give out positivity but as you'll discover when we talk a bit more it hasn't always been easy to be positive but we'll get to that yeah important for the listeners today. And this is such an important episode that I want everyone to listen to because, well, I'm going get you to introduce yourself now, but you are sort of at the beginning of your journey, but even then you have done more than other people who have been years in the industry. And that's what I really want people to know. It doesn't matter about length of time. It matters about purpose and it matters about intention within that time. So the floor is yours. Introduce yourself and I'd love everyone to get to know you more. Yes, so I've had a very different career before now. I was a TV producer and my main sort of focus for the last 15, 20 years has been wildlife documentaries. So this time last year I was at the Emmy Awards in LA because I was nominated for a best factual series for a big series I made for Nat Geo called Secrets of the Elephants. and I've made shows for Netflix, loads and loads and of shows for the BBC. I worked for the BBC for years and years and years at the Natural History Unit and before then and yeah so I was very much, that was my identity. It was my identity. like who is Lucinda? Lucinda is a TV producer, she makes wildlife documentaries and I was always so proud of that and I worked very very hard to get there and absolutely loved it. So that's me and I'm also a mum. I've got three adult children, although you wouldn't know it because they're all bloody living with me. And I've got two very gorgeous little Dachshunds as well. you know, I do lots of things outside of work and I make pottery and I, you know, I'm very keen on... the gym and you know so what I'm trying to say is although I sort of identified so strongly with being a TV producer we are all many many different people and there are many many facets to our lives and all of those other things kind of really came to the fore when my life fell apart about three years ago so we'll come to that in a minute but yeah I am I very, very, very strongly identified as that person. so when a little while back it was all taken away from me, you know, was a massive, massive reset. know, when you're in your late fifties, as I was then, you know, it's tough. It's tough at any age, but I think the older you get and the more kind of set in your identity, the harder it is to change. But as you'll discover... Things have kind of turned around somewhat. Yeah, exactly. And that's what's so beautiful. And that's what we're gonna, we're gonna sort of dive into as well. what, what we'll do then is before we sort of then, so that's the beginning of the story. That's just a little taster of the story. Before we dive deeper into kind of what happened three years ago and what then led you to where you are now, why don't we go and tell the listeners about what you're celebrating at the moment first. So I'm celebrating the fact that I'm just about to finish and refinance my first HMO up in Hartlepool. It's looking absolutely stunning. Lots of snagging bits and staging to do, but the bones of the property look amazing. And I had a very strong vision for it, and now I can actually see that vision come to life, and it's exciting. that's what I love about you as an investor as well. I there are many things that I love about you, but one of the things I love about you is the fact that you really care about the projects that you work on. So for example, let me explain what I mean. there's just, listeners, Lucinda actually lives down south near me. She lives in Winchester. And therefore, how long does it take you to drive to Hartlepool? 4 hours and 45 minutes on a run Yes actually, what you've been so adamant about when speaking to me is this idea that you really want to be part of the staging. You want to pick the colors. You want to make sure that the materials are right. You want to make sure that how people live is functional, it's correct. And I can't tell you how many people I know who have never been to a HMO that they own. They've never been, they've never seen it. They bought it, they gave the keys away, they claim it as a hands off investment. And they're like, yep, you make the decisions, et cetera. And you are not like that at all. really, mean, put it this way, if I ever needed to live in a HMO, my God, do I want to live in yours? I really do. Like yours are stunning. And when you show me like, so this is what I'm thinking for the radiators and this is what I'm thinking for like the ceiling or the mood board. Yeah, you've got mood boards and it's just, really can tell because of your background within TV production and creativity, that's where I see you light up the most, you know, is in the finer detail of it. That's where you kind of want to be. And so I think it's important to say that remember why we actually went to invest in property and you're a great example of this. It's to actually create beautiful homes. for people to live in. We've got to respect the people who are moving into these homes. Yes, it's important to make margins always, but it's important to have that love for it as well. Otherwise, why are you doing it? And if you don't have the love for it and you only care about the numbers, almost really sit and just think on that for a little bit. So, yeah. So, I mean, I'm a great believer in how you do anything is how you do everything. You know, so actually you've got to have a passion, you've got to care, otherwise, you know, do something else, for goodness sake, do something else. If it's not your passion, then do something else. And, you know, I've got, as I say, three adult children and I wouldn't want them to live in a house that wasn't clean, tidy, kind of beautiful. had just a bit of style to it, you know, because you can paint a wall white or you can paint a wall with this color that you've chosen from Farrow and Ball and had copied or whatever. You can, these just little details that cost very, very little in the scheme of things, but can just completely change the experience of living in that house. I want people to feel happy and to feel proud of where they live. I want them to have good mental health because when they look around their room, they it's a really nice room, it's really nice house. and you know life's good because I don't think you know most people wouldn't necessarily have an HMO as their first choice of a place to live of course everybody wants to own their own gorgeous flat or whatever so if you find yourself in a situation where you can only afford an HMO then you know let's make it a nice one let's make it let's make it beautiful let's make it functional let's put some decent quality doors and carpets and beds and everything in. It's such a little bit, it's such a small amount of extra cost but makes a massive difference to tenants and to their well-being, you know? what differentiates you as you say you know spreading that sort of positivity and enjoying love for what you do. care for the tenants. know, they're often young people making their way in life and you know, as we know, everybody needs all the help they can get. Absolutely, I love that, beautifully said. And in terms of my celebration, so as some people know, so I was obviously away last week, you know, and it's so funny, I have the best intentions to work while I'm away, I really do, but it's really difficult as well. You know, when they've got like, Aquafit at 11 and the music's pumping, you're like, that looks fun. I don't you can actually get a laptop out when you're on a camel. I'm not sure. mean, I could be wrong, but... Yeah, that's true. That is true, actually. Yeah, we were on camels and quad bikes and things. So yeah, that bit was a bit tricky as well. And, but you know what, one of the things I was thinking about my celebration, because obviously I knew I was speaking to you today. And I don't, was, I remember I was flying back from Egypt, back to the UK. And you know, we took off at 5pm on the most beautiful sunset over the Egyptian mountains. Stunning, stunning. One the best takeoffs I've... I've been, I'm not a great flyer and I just really loved it. And as I was listening to this podcast, I was actually listening to Daniel Priestley and Stephen Bartlett. Daniel Priestley was a guest on Stephen, again, it was the second one that he did. And a few people have been speaking about it on Instagram. And so I thought, oh, I better check this out. People that I really trust within the industry are like, you must listen to this. Have you listened to this episode? Okay, I highly recommend it. It's two hours. Mm-hmm. it was absolutely fantastic. And what was so beautiful for me is it's so rare that I get to listen to something straight for two hours with no interruptions. Because I was in the air, my phone wasn't pinging, emails weren't coming through, I wasn't distracted. I was able to sit and absorb something for two hours. And at one point I was sat after about 20 minutes and I said to mom, went, mom, need, can you get my note? book from above the cabin, because I need to take notes on this podcast. I wrote five pages of notes from this podcast, five pages. And what I'm celebrating is, I talk about this one of my stories on Instagram, Daniel Priestley says the most beautiful thing on the podcast. And, you know, for anyone who's listened to it, I'm sorry if this is not word for word and verbatim, but it gets the general gist. He was talking about, Stephen said to him, what's one thing you really want the listeners to know? when they're listening to this podcast. You know, they gave, he gave a wealth of knowledge about sales and tactics and marketing and branding. And he says, but what is it you actually want people to know? And Daniel said to him that he went to Bali recently and he was climbing one of the mountains in Bali. It wasn't Mount, it wasn't one of them beginning with B. It was one beginning with you. think it was, I don't remember the name of it, but he was climbing this mountain and he says, we had to get up at 12 o'clock in the morning. to have head torches on to climb this mountain. And he says, you couldn't really see past your feet. You were just climbing and climbing and climbing. And he was thinking, why am I doing this? Why am I climbing this mountain? I'm supposed to be on holiday. I'm supposed to be relaxing. And he was climbing it. And he says, you finally got to the top. And he says, now I realize why we were supposed to climb it so early. It's that we could watch the sunrise come up at six o'clock in the morning. And he says, the sun came up and you just looked over Bali. And he says, it was absolutely stunning. They got some eggs. They put the eggs in the, volcano in the ground and they cooked the eggs. And he says it was most beautiful moment. But then he looked over to another mountain that looked sort of a similar size to the one that he was standing on. And he said to his guide, he said, what's that mountain over there? And the guy said, that's X mountain. And he says, he says, can you climb that mountain? And the guide said, yes, you can climb that mountain. And he says, well, how many days does it take to get there? And the guide said, it's not on this island, so you have to get a ferry and it takes three days to get there. And he says, well, how do you do this? And how do you do this? And how do you do this? And I was question and question and question. And he says, guide stopped Daniel, he put his arm around him and he said, Mr. Daniel, appreciate the mountain you're currently standing on. And I was like, oh, like that gave me goosebumps because like it was so poignant and like what I'm celebrating is this idea of like, my God, like you're so right. Like I'm so guilty and I'm sure we all are and I'm sure you are within your journey because the amountitude of things that you're doing which we'll come onto. But I was, I'm always, and I've said this before, I'm always thinking of the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And we never take a moment to just sit and appreciate the mountain that we've built, that we're standing on. And that really has stuck with me so much since then because I was sat on this aeroplane taking off overlooking these mountains at sunset. And I was like, oh my God, like, look at my mountain. Look at what I'm building. You know, and it really, I sat there and just, ah, just a moment of reflection. And it was just lovely. So yeah, a really cool celebration of appreciate the mountain that you're standing on. And I want everyone to do that today. I want you to think of your own mountain, whatever stage that may be. and just celebrate yourself today. It's so important. So that's my celebration. I think that's fantastic, Athena. And I think, you know, there's so much in that that we can take from it. I mean, I was thinking, I was listening to Dan Sullivan, and he talks about the gap and the gain and how, you know, it's fantastic to set these goals and to see what you want in the future. But if you're constantly looking to the horizon and constantly looking to the next thing, you soon discover that you'll never actually get there because the horizon keeps shifting, of course, and the goals keep getting bigger and there's always somebody else that you're aspiring to. So he's of all about kind of stop and I just came back from South Africa and we climbed Table Mountain and you know was trudging up this mountain it was like is this never-ending I kept looking up and thinking I'm never gonna get there I'm never gonna get there every now and then I would just stop and I'd look back and go actually I've come such a long way I have come such a long way and just sit down have a little drink have a cup of tea take a moment and then carry on but you know it's not always about focusing on where you're going sometimes you have to reflect on where you come from and where you are now so I think it's very much that kind of mindset is just don't overload yourself with constantly battling for the future and constantly looking at, want to be, I want to make more deals, I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this. Of set your goals, but do honestly take time to say, look how far I've come and how much am I enjoying this moment right now? know, sitting halfway up a mountain with a cup of tea that you've brought in your little flask and go. wow this is amazing you know the sun shining the views are incredible so you know just very much that same mindset i'm all about that very much so I love that. And speaking of kind of where you've been and how far you've come then, let's talk about what, so we paused on this idea of something shifted for you three years ago. So let's go back and look at what happened three years ago and the journey that's now led you to today. Yes, so three years ago I was told by my husband that he didn't want to be married anymore. I didn't know then that there was somebody else in his life but I soon discovered and you know that came out of the blue completely. mean I'm not going to bore everybody with the details of my divorce but it was a real shock and it rocked me to my foundations and that sort of started a bit of a chain of events really because I think you know we I had such a strong identity of who I was you know I was married I had these kids had a beautiful house that I'd worked really hard to create and I had this amazing job and and slowly over that year my my foundations felt like they'd had got a massive crack in them and that I didn't even know about and slowly you know you can't hold up a big beautiful house if your foundations are falling apart. And that's what happened to me, my foundations fell apart and slowly but surely the house came tumbling down. Thank God not in real life. You know my sort metaphorical house and it was at the same time that I was working flat out on the biggest project I've ever done in my life and... Basically, by the end of that year, I'd had a breakdown. I was burnt out. I was trying to keep everything together, be this incredible person at work, an incredible mum to the kids, and an incredible friend, and say, I've got this. I can do this. I'm fine. I'll get through this. And basically, I couldn't. And I got to the point where... I couldn't swallow food. I literally couldn't swallow food. I couldn't sleep. I was getting like an hour's sleep a night. Yeah, I lost a massive amount of weight. And sometimes I'd come in from work and I was getting in at 10 PM, like exhausted from work. I couldn't even form sentences. couldn't actually speak. So in the end I had to stop and just, you know. I have never had, I barely ever have a day of sick. You know, I've never dropped a ball in my life in any sphere. You know, I'm a real perfectionist and I, know, high achiever, blah, blah, blah. And I just had to stop. My body just said, stop, you can't do this anymore. So then I moved out, that was the first thing I did was obviously take the time off work, moved out of my house into a rented house where still am and just really had to step back and say right, what is going on in my life? it was such a shift for me because I had, as I say, I had this very, very strong identity of who I was and suddenly... I wasn't that person anymore and I wasn't this incredibly successful, know, strong, powerful woman. I was just a little broken thing on the floor in many different pieces and I thought, I don't even know who I am anymore. So over the next sort of year, sort of started to kind of rebuild myself as a human, but also tried to kind of put my work life back together. But it happened to coincide, and you know, I think the universe does this, it happened to coincide with a time when my old industry, was going through a major, major reset, you know, after COVID and cost of living crisis. a lot of the broadcasters, well all the broadcasters were strapped for cash, pulling back on their commissioning and some of the most successful people I know were out of work completely and still are this year. So I got to sort of January time and I was thinking, you know, I'm going to work every day, I'm having these incredible ideas but no one's buying them. There just isn't any money around. And it was just getting more and more, I guess unsustainable. You know, I just felt... you know this is going nowhere so sorry I'm waffling I'm waffling but I started to listen to different podcasts lots of diarhoes here of course and then I thought I've always loved property I've always loved doing up my houses I'll see there's any nice property podcast I remember I can remember it all so clearly I just arrived at Waterloo and I found your podcast oh girls and property I like the sound of that nice pink logo looked very friendly and unthreatening popped in my earphones because I then walked from Waterloo all the way up to the office, a good half an hour walk, and it was the Heather Smale chat and she was talking about all her setbacks and terrible stuff that had happened to her and how basically property had turned her life around. And I got to the office and the podcast hadn't finished and I thought, right, I'm just going to have to go around the corner, find a cafe and I'm not going anywhere until I've finished listening to this. And honestly, it was like a light bulb went off. thought, that's it. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to do property. That was just about a year ago, maybe. So then yeah, but what does that mean? Well, you know, I started to kind of make some inquiries. I think I sent an email to Heather. I emailed you and just sort of started to put, put feelers out and then life did what life does. And in the February I was made redundant and it was like, this is it. This is the sign. This is the moment where I have to pivot and do something different. and it was the best thing that could have happened to me. So from there, I set up my own company, Bush Baby Property, and just started to think, right, how's this gonna work, how's this gonna work? I came on one of your, I think there was some sort of course that, your amazing course that you do. I went on that and then reached out to you and you became my mentor. And slowly but surely I kind of came up with a strategy and we'll come on to that in a minute, I thought, right, this is it. And I thought, you know, I'm going to go for this. I'm going to go for this 100 % because I needed to leverage what I had in my life. And I think this is something that we can all do. What do I have? Right. I'm in a rented house, so I don't have big responsibilities. It's quite cheap as well. And I've got a big pile of cash. because we had to sell the family home. So I say big pallicash, I mean want that big, but you know, big enough. And I thought, right, so that's it. I've got time, I've got positivity, I've got support, and I've got some money. So, you know, these were the things that I could leverage. Other people's, you know, knowledge and experience, and my money. And so yeah, I just decided to go for it 100%. So I think I bought my first house in August, which is just quite, I say boring, but very simple by Tollette. And I only bought that because it's not my strategy. And I say we'll come to strategy in a minute. It's not my strategy, but I was told by someone who knows what they're talking about. that if I wanted to get refinance on the back end of my HMOs later, that the first thing they'd be looking for is a track record as a landlord. And by buying the buy-to-layer, by the time it comes around to refinancing my properties, however many months later, I've got proof of a track record as a landlord. And that means I'll get the better deals. lower interest rates, et cetera, better terms. So that was the first very good bit of advice I took. And I'm just kind of going... I hope this is right. I'm taking a leap of faith here. I'm just going to keep going forward. then I think I bought my first HMO in September. I've now got four HMOs that are in build and this one by Tollette and I've got two that are convincing. The two that are convincing, one's an HMO and one's something different, which we'll come to later. So yeah, sort of five deals that I own and two more that are in convincing. then I've got also... for the end of the year or whatever, saying to me, slow down, slow down, slow down. But yeah, am 100 miles an hour, you know, ahead. So, this is so interesting. also, so I love, I love the, what you've just said there. And obviously I know your story quite well and I'm so glad that you've shared that with everyone. What I will never forget, and I remember clear as day is the day that me and you jumped on a discovery call together and you told me your story and immediately what resonated with me the most was the fact that because you had had a similar experience that had happened to my mum. I was instantly drawn to wanting to help you because you had gone through what you had gone through. And it was so fresh for you. Like we spoke literally just as the divorce was happening. You weren't divorced. Yeah, you were going right through it. And I remember us having those conversations and I'll never forget that discovery call we had and instantly within it, I knew I wanted to work with you first of all. I knew that you had everything it took to want to push forward, because at the time you had nothing. Like when we did our discovery call, you had zero basically. You just had the intent that you wanted to do it. And on that call, you were straight away just like, yep, Athena, I'm in, I want you to be my mentor. And I was like, great, I want you to be my mentee. And it was this harmonious relationship that it was like we were meant to come together and everything happens for a reason. So because you lived in Winchester and I'm in Bournemouth, again, perfect, our first meeting, our first... didn't have to be on zoom it could be a face-to-face so we met in Ringwood didn't we we met in Ringwood at in one of the cafes and we I said yeah and I was like right what's your plan and you know what I hope you don't mind me saying this I remember you saying to me at the time right I think I want to do this and I think I want to do this and then there's these guys these what were they called like bury something Berry company or something up in Darby Yeah, and you were like, I'm speaking to these people. And I went, who? Who are you talking to? I said, hold on a minute. And we started like Googling them and looking at them. And you're like, yeah, and then they told me this and then they told me this. And I went, no, Lucinda, no, stop. You're not doing that. And I said, right, here's the plan. And I said, here's the plan. Here's the goals. Here's what we want to do. And then I was able to, from my contact books of knowledge, I was able to say, go and talk to this person, go and talk to this person, go and speak to these people. Yes. What's brilliant about you, and you know, I heard Sophie talking about this the other day on her stories, and I've heard some other people talking about the stories. You are a great example of how mentorship works, which is our job is to help you to get from where you are in that moment to where you want to be. That's what our job is. But what your job as a mentee is, is to listen and take action and to do it. and you followed it to the T. You literally went, okay. And then the next day at 100 miles an hour that you are, you're like, right, Athena, I've done this and I've done this and I've done this. And I went, fantastic. What was the response? How are we gonna move forward? And don't get me wrong, we had to pivot in some scenarios and we sort of went down one path and thought, actually, that's not the right path and let's go down another path. But what you did in those moments is you picked up so much knowledge. You picked up wisdom from not going down the right path to then going down the right path and and and then what started to happen and I and again I think this is important to say as part of your story is that people started to doubt you didn't they? Yeah, you know and you would tell me about these people that started to doubt you and we'd have these conversations about very serious life stuff that was happening to you. So do you want to just share kind of what happened with certain things with that? Well, I mean, think once you sort of do something new and you've got a good circle of friends around you or people that know you quite well, everybody has an opinion, you know. So what are you doing with your life? You know, and it's like, well, I'm going to do this. Really? Well, I don't think that's good idea. You know, I mean, the number of people who've told me that, you know, what I'm doing is a scam, what I'm doing is it can't be real, nothing's that good, you know, just... people saying, but everybody's leaving, you know, buy to let's everybody's leaving the property market. Why are you going in? Interest rates, gosh, they're only going to go up, aren't they? Or interest rates going up. Why are doing that? You know, there's all this new legislation coming in. Why are you going into property? And just endless negativity, you know, and... you've just got to find a way to kind of block out that noise and just stick with what you believe will be okay. You've got to kind of hold on really, really hard. to why you're doing this and trust the people that are advising you and trust yourself. You know, you've got to trust yourself and trust your decision making. You know, for me, this was a completely new industry, obviously. So the first thing I'm going to do is listen, listen really hard, think about the advice that I'm given, think about the things that people are saying to me, do my own due diligence, be logical, look at the numbers, but... keep moving forwards. Don't let that negativity and any doubts that you have hold you back. You've just got to keep finding a way through it and I think in a way that's one of the many things that I learned from my years in TV was you know making wildlife documentaries is nightmare because you never know if the animals are even going to turn up so you've just got to have you know hold on really tight to your belief that it will be okay and just keep believing and just problem solve. Everything's about problem solving. Don't, like I say, block out the noise, trust yourself, trust the people that you're surrounding yourself with who are giving you good advice and just keep going because, you know, everybody's got an opinion and, you know, I'm not saying any of the people that I spoke to were jealous, but there will be people in your life who are a bit jealous. You're a bit jealous that you're doing something different. Maybe they're stuck, you know, and suddenly you're not. So, you know, you've just got to kind of... just stick with it, just stick with it and that's what I've done. And I'm still sticking with it forever. it. obviously, what, you know, so what I just want to tell people the story, because I think it's so important, like there's so many bits of detail here that I think it's important to mention, in case people are going through similar situations. So there was a time, I remember we were speaking, and 99.9 % of the time, you are just positive rays of sunshine. That is what you are. That's how I see you. You your aura is just so colorful. And then ever so often I'll catch you just at the right, I always catch you just at the right moment where, you know, you might have a bit of a down, like a down day as it were. And the reasons is because, I mean, there was one time when we were speaking and your best friend actually said to you, and I hope you don't mind me mentioning this, saying to you, I can't actually be friends with you anymore because I can't watch you make this massive mistake, didn't she? she was lovely. I mean in fairness to her she's amazing. She's yeah. incredible person I met at university and she didn't say she couldn't be friends with me but she was just she said what she said was I can't stick by and let you make the biggest mistake of your life and lose all your money that was her fear that I would lose all my money because she knew that I had no plan B you know my career was gone marriage is gone the house is gone all the things you know had gone and I all I had was this certain amount of money and that was it and a lot of people would have just gone and bought a little house and just tried to survive but I would just like, it's like I'd gone to the casino and said right that lot is going on you know this number and she was like you know I just can't can't sit by and watch you make this mistake but of course you know I wasn't going to change my mind I was so determined and you know we just had to break contact for a while I mean we're rebuilding the friendship now because you know I can say to a look it's okay. I'm alright, you know, but it's hard when people you love and have known for a long time basically tell you making a mistake. you you, I trust myself, but other people weren't trusting in my common sense or good judgment. And you know, you will find that, you know, people, people, when you're starting out and doing something new, people will tell you you're making a mistake and you're getting it wrong. And it's tough. in those moments then, when I saw you do that, because you were also finalising the divorce at the same time, which was also very, very stressful for different reasons. Financial, yeah, because you were trying to complete and actually you needed the monies and there were issues. buy any of the properties until I had the money released, which couldn't be released until we'd agreed the financial settlement. So I'm like, I've got all these deals I want to do and I can't do any of them. he held that control, absolutely. And I remember that as well. But what would you say was, because I do believe that you had so much almost at that moment against you with people who you trusted, you you'd known for a long time in your ear saying, this is a mistake, don't do it and scam. And then you had me who, although you knew you didn't know as well as them going, girl, you got this. And I'm sure other people saying the same thing. What was it that actually made you keep going? Like if there are listeners out there who are in the exact same position as you, what made you choose the path you chose? Well, I think one of the positive things about losing so much, like your career, your marriage, your home, blah, blah, is you think, well, I've just lost everything that I was so afraid to lose in my life. You know, these were the things that I would be, would most people be most afraid to lose. And they got. So, I'm still here. I'm still okay. I'm, you know, everyday life is fine. So just let go of fear. You just have to let go of fear because fear just holds you back. You know, you could spend all your time thinking of all the different ways that everything could go wrong and how, you know, you'll lose everything and this will go wrong and that will go wrong and this will go wrong. You've just got to stop that. You've just got to say, you know, I have made a decision. I'm going to stick with that. I'm not going to let fear or other people's fear hold me back. I'm just going to keep going. And then it's just a case of... double checking the information you're getting, cross-referencing, trusting your gut, trusting your gut instinct. I knew when I spoke to you that you were a straight, honest person who just wanted the best for me. And you know... That's what you need to do. I knew you were a good person. I knew you were giving me good advice and you know, just had to trust that instinct. So I think forget fear, just stop, stop procrastinating. Don't let these things hold you back and trust your gut instinct about people. Trust the information and the advice they give you. I love that. That's beautiful, beautiful advice, absolutely. And if we talk about it then, so if we think about when you then took on your first project was actually a buy-to-let for the reasons that you said, which was to get up your landlord experience for the HMO mortgages, cetera. when, talk me through your timeline of the properties that you took up. we started our journey when? What month were we? I think you and I probably got together properly as my mentor around April, May last year. Yeah, was just yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because I came to the retreat, which again was life changing. And we'll come to that later. It was sorry. Always for later. Like keep the keep the listeners listening. But that retreat really there was something that happened there that absolutely changed the game for me, which we'll talk about later. Yeah, so I think it was then, I mean, there are many lessons I've learned. let's do it this way. Let's do it this way. Let's talk about the timeline. Let's do it in chronological order. So I actually think we met just before the retreat, I think, because I knew you. I knew you before because I definitely knew you before. So I'm going to say February, March, we started mentoring together. Okay. Then, so that started. Yes, yeah. there that was life-changing for you? I was obviously completely inspired by all these women who were just so confident making money because that's really important for me. You know, I didn't know how I was ever going to retire or even live. I didn't know how I was going to pay my bills, know, pension, tiny pension. My house had been my pension. All my plans had gone out the window. And so suddenly I'm like, shit, I need to make some money here. And there were all these women there who were just like, Yeah, we're successful. We've done this. You know, nothing's going to hold us back. know, the Porsche is in the car park. You know, it was just and they were just lovely, lovely women that wanted to help other women. so first of all, it was inspiring and that sort of sense of you can do this. You can absolutely do this. Here are some beautiful examples. And then I was standing in the coffee queue at some point and I, you know, the whole point of these things, you've got to talk to people. I talked to this lovely young woman who was behind me called Mel Coxson and I just said, you know, what do you do? And she came out this fabulous Northeast accent from, you know, up, up in the Northeast. And she was like, yeah, you know, I, I'm property sourcer and and I've managed builds and we do HMOs. And I said, well that's really interesting. And then we agreed to kind of connect after the event and And yeah, she was really something. And she said to me, oh, you know, what do you want to do? And we talked about HMOs and I said, well, how many do you want to do? And I said to her, maybe five, you know? And she said, five. She said, why five? And I said, oh, you know, that's sort of what I need for my, you know, I've worked to my sons and if I have five, then I'll be able to live. She went, why is it about five? Why not 10? Why not 15? Why not 20? And I went, yeah. Why not? Why not? And you know, it just kind of made me think, why am I limiting myself? And I think that's another thing we all do, isn't it? And maybe as women as well, we sort of almost self limit our success. And yeah, gosh, the sky is in me. I don't know where I'm going to stop, but it certainly isn't going to be at five because I'll have achieved that in a few months. It's going to be like, you know, in the multiples, in the multiples. And you know, it's just, sometimes you just meet people who just gonna help you on your journey. They're just, they game change for you. You game change for me, she game change for me. And you know, I've got my fourth property with her. I've got two more big projects I'm doing with her this year. sorry. hold on, let's let, was sticking to the timeline. I think it's important. Follow me Lucinda, cause I'm trying to stick to a timeline. Cause it's important that the listeners don't know your story. It's important for them to know you and to understand. So April happened, you connected with Mel. When did you then take on your first vital app? So I was doing, I was also going to be working with Heather, who I'd heard, Smale, who I'd heard on your podcast. She was the one who wisely told me to buy that bitolette and she was actively going to source me an HMO project in Derby. So that was in sort of conveyancing. So I guess by August I'd bought my first bitolette. by September time I actually bought my first HMO which ended up being with Mel up in Hartlepool and then very shortly after that I got my Derby HMO. I mean these are not HMOs now, well they will be, but they're houses basically. then, yeah exactly, so and then I think it was around about November I bought my third HMO project which was in Darlington or is in Darlington and then just before Christmas I was on the phone to Mel and she said you know we talking about my projects and I said what you doing? said I'm just going around to see this this house that's just gonna be sold you know at auction. I said she said actually you might like this one. god here we go and yeah so I bought it sort of pre-auction if you like at the reserve price. So yeah that was my fifth property that I bought just in December and then completed on it in January. But in the meantime we also had two other deals that we were kind of stacking up which we'll be doing this year. So therefore when you spoke to Mel, and it doesn't matter who sources what, but when you spoke to Mel, she said to you, how many do you want to get? And this was last April, April, 2024. And you said five. You said, I think I want to get five because five is a good number of whatever statue, whether it's a bi-to-let, HMO conversion, flats, whatever it may be. And you said five. A number in your head. And you've actually achieved that by January. We're not even a year. Not even a year. and you've already surpassed that beyond. to think how many people, because I've obviously been with you on your journey, to think how many people doubted you or tried to protect you in their own way, but you've gone forward with it. And what makes me laugh with you, Lucinda, and it makes me laugh every time is, you are one of my favorite people. You really are. Because ever so often I won't hear from you, and then I'll either check in with you or you'll just message me out the out the blue now because obviously we're no longer mentees and mentors, but we are friends for life. We really are and always will be. And you'll message me and go, just bought another property, just bought another HMO. Here's this office block I'm viewing today. And I always think of the person sat opposite me in Ringwood on that breakfast bench the first time we ever met. And oh my God, if someone has said to me, this is where she's going to be in less than a year's time, I'd be like, oh, that is just amazing for you. And what I'd love to actually ask you is just speaking about, about property, because what was important actually to mention now is, cause I can talk to you for hours. We always do. But what's important to also mention is you've done this at quite a rapid pace, you know? 100%. Yep. Yeah, Yep. that also comes a lot of learning and a lot of complications as well. So if we think about, like I've written down some questions here, if we, first of all, one of the questions I want to actually ask you was, you know, how did you land on this particular strategy? This idea about the HMO conversion, why that strategy? So I... looked at my situation and you know some people invest for capital growth because they've got jobs and they just want something else for when they retire or when they're older or whatever to you know to give them that extra income. I turned 60 last year so I don't really have time on my side in terms of building long-term wealth although I'm not saying I won't but that was not going to be my strategy what I needed is cash flow to be my pension but also to pay my bills to be my job to be my income and you know there's one strategy that's just perfect for that and that is HMO conversions buying a house an ordinary family house that's the right size in the right area obviously and turning it into a six bedroom HMO or however many bedrooms you can get And you know that way, I mean the way I'm hoping it will go is that I'll leave very little money, if any, in the deal and in fact one of the deals I'm going to be getting quite a lot of cash out because it was so cheap to buy. So you know that means that this pot of money that I had at the start isn't going down. Or if it's going down it's only going down very slightly and then other deals will bring it back up again. So I'm going to keep that initial investment to just keep you know, going and going and going and slowly but surely I'm building my cash flow, know, property by property, I'm building that cash flow and you know, when you work in a job, you get that cash flow while you're working and you know, this is the thing you've got to remember, this isn't going to stop. I'll be getting this cash flow or something close to it when I'm 70, when I'm 80, I'll be able to pass that cash flow on to my kids. And that's the other thing, creating a legacy for them. it's just, for me, was just, it was a no brainer. That was the only way that I was gonna go. There's a part of me that would love to do, buy a lovely little rundown bungalow and turn it into some gorgeous little palace and flip and flip and flip. That's kind of what I did as a kind of amateur. When I was buying the family homes, I'd buy a family home and always bought... bought a dewar upper and then at some point you sell it go, I've made quite a lot of money on that. can buy a bigger house next time. Fantastic. Got all the time in the world. When you're 60, you haven't got all the time in the world, you know, and you've only got, you know that, you know, your energy might start to run a bit lower in 10 years time. So I've just got to go for it. And, you know, and that's kind of part of my strategy absolutely is HMOs for cashflow, but also my strategy is just crack on. Crack on. what's important on this particular podcast is when viewers listen, I definitely want them to sit there and I definitely want them to think to themselves, wow, that sounds amazing. I could do that. How incredible is that? But what also is important to talk about 100 % is the setbacks and the difficulties that come with it. So if we think about the main difficulties that you have faced, with these HMOs and expanding at such a rapid pace, what would be the best advice that you can give to somebody who is in your shoes less than a year ago? Yeah, I mean, you've got to learn patience because things just don't go at the speed that I want them to go at. know, conveyancing takes breath. mean, stupid little things like there was the bridging loan company got the email of my solicitor wrong. So I'm thinking after like three months of just like things just not progressing. Why has this not happened yet? So we get in touch with the British loan company and yeah, we never heard back from your solicitor. What? And my sister's going, well, I haven't actually heard anything from the loan company. You know, when you've got quite a few projects going on at the same time, you can miss this stuff and go, if it's just the only thing you're doing, you go, well, have you heard from them? And have you heard from them? And I might have picked that up a bit earlier, but I didn't. It took me a long time to pick it up and go, gosh, this conveyance thing is taking forever. Why is this not progressing? That was the reason, and the vendor's getting antsy as you would expect. I'm getting frustrated. And then it turned out it was just this simple little stupid mistake so it's it's that detail and kind of nurturing those things along and that's something that you know if you're just doing one at a time you I would have picked that up way earlier but because I'm doing this deal this deal this I didn't see it. So I think that was one of the big things. There's also something I've really learned the hard way recently was when you when you're applying for a loan, you get your property valued a front end valuation, if you like, which is partly based on what they think the end value will be. And if you don't get the right value, then they can come along and value it at bricks and mortar end value, which means you just won't get the loan that you were expecting to get to do it. And you know, think just, I would never have thought of that. You know, I didn't know what I didn't know. and you know you can work with some fantastic people but still these things happen you know and it's I've learnt that so I will never I will now make sure that the value that goes out to value the property at the front end is the right valuer that they've got a track record for valuing these things correctly and that you know that that's that's going to be rock solid because otherwise you know it costs you a lot of time and money Well, lending is so important. Finance is one of the biggest questions because, you know, that's how you rapidly expand is to borrow money. But one of the things we've spoken about before together is that if you run out of money, it's incredibly expensive, isn't it? what's been your experience with bridging in particular? Because a lot of people want to get into that, but also I know for a fact that's important to mention, you've also had some setbacks with delays within the builds. And so that's obviously affected therefore the cost of borrowing. So could you just give a bit of detail about that? it will affect the cost of borrowing eventually because you want to borrow for as short a time as possible. Obviously, every month is costing you two and a half grand or whatever it is. Although it's all loaded in at the front, just means it's just costing you money basically. The longer your bill goes on, the more expensive it is. Also, if you've got other deals stacked up that are depending on you releasing that finance, getting a refinance and getting that money out to buy the next property, know, those delays can really jeopardize your onward purchases. you know, there's a couple of things going on there. Delays are expensive and to be avoided but can't always be avoided. and delays cost you stress and time with your next deal. it just delays our money, delays our money. And whether that's when you're purchasing or, I had this whole kind of plan where this one was gonna cash out, this one was gonna cash out, this was gonna cash out, but buy this, buy that, buy that. It's all shifted, it's all shifted probably by two months or so. And in two months when you're trying to go, fast you know it's it's a lot it's a lot and it you know means you make a promise to buy something and I'm really I you know my word is my bond I absolutely I'm so honest and if I say I'm gonna do something I really want to do it so you know the fact that I've had to come go to people go I'm really sorry there's a bit of a delay and I hate doing that but you know that's the way it is. you know, just things that you wouldn't expect like solicitor getting, you know, somebody getting an email address wrong, you know, getting the wrong value. These little details that you don't know, you don't know, are the things that start to trip you up. you know, if you're not winning, you're learning, aren't you? And I'm learning so much. Yeah. is ever going to be the same. Some will be smooth sailing, some won't. It's different circumstances, there really is. But all we can do is take the lessons onto the next one. So for example, I have no doubt that the next time you go and do, which I'm sure you will, another HIO conversion, you will know the value, you will know the right value to get out. You know, I'm sure you've got a book of all of your... lessons to think right next time how am going to do this? It's the same for me you know I have my own sort of right what did I learn how can I do things differently and I think that you know people who who I almost think it's I know we never want to have them but it's almost a gift because you can then constantly improve and go forward but yeah I've loved it. pass those lessons on to anyone else that wants to learn them. And that's what we're here for, isn't it? To kind of help each other as well. Everything I learn, I'm really happy to pass on to anyone else. Any contact I make that's great, happy to pass that on to anyone that wants to hear it. And one of the things that you kind of said to me early on is get the right power team around you. and you know what is a power team? It's your solicitor. It's your broker. It's your accountant. It could be your property source. It could be a property manager. It's your mentor. These people are absolutely crucial to your growth. So get that right. Get your power team right. Get the right system. Get the right broker. Get the right accountant. And that you get those people by recommendation. It's word of mouth. Who do you use? I mean, I remember you saying to me, I've got a fantastic accountant who saved me so much money because he really knows property. So I sacked off my account. and got yours and you know and somebody else recommended incredible convincing sister he's been amazing and same with my broker of course you know our property sources fantastic you've been obviously amazing so those that power team is absolutely crucial those that is your foundation for everything else that you build above Beautiful. I love that. And do know, I've loved this conversation because I think so many people are going to relate to this. I love getting different types of people on this podcast. It's wonderful to hear from the experts who have been doing it for however many years and all of this. But like I said, and I'll say it again, I don't really care about years. I don't really care about how long someone's been doing something for. I like to know the intent with what they have done with the time. that they're currently in. And I think that you have so much to give, so much wisdom. And what I'm looking forward to actually for you, Lucinda, is when you come back in April to the retreat, I'm looking forward to you being able to sit in the room and on your own mountain, right, on your mountain, and you're gonna sit there and think, who can I help in this room today? Like I was at, who can I help today? And I can't wait to see you just shine, you know? Cause you are, you're just a diamond, like a star, it's just shine. And what I want to ask is my final question to you is, and I think I'm going to start doing this as a new tradition going forward, like I do celebrations. Steven asked on his podcast at the very end, he said to Daniel, he said to him, is there anything else you would love the listeners to know or any wisdom you'd like the listeners to know before we wrap up this podcast? So I want to just ask you, is there anything you want to say to the listener. I would say a of things, a couple of phrases that have kind of helped me kind of cope with what's happened. You know that expression when life gives you lemons you make lemonade? Well in my opinion when life gives you shit you turn it into fertilizer. And that becomes the basis of your absolute incredible growth. Because I honestly think out of suffering comes growth and almost you have to suffer to get yourself into a place where you're willing to push yourself out of your comfort zone and to grow. So that is kind of crucial. And you know, the bigger the setback, the bigger the comeback. The bigger the setback, the bigger the comeback. I love that. What a beautiful way to finish it. exactly, like it's all about this idea of things happen for a reason. They might seem really bad at the time, but my God, goodness comes with it. You've just got to trust yourself as you've done beautifully. Like you trusted yourself the whole way through this because you had the right people around you. And that's what's so important. In fact, actually in my notes, if I just go back, this is the last thing I, this is the thing I want to leave people with is one of the notes I wrote from the Daniel Priestley podcast was, and I've written it in bold letters, environment dictates performance. Environment dictates performance. So if we think about the power team, we think about the people you surrounded yourself with, including yourself, that's really poignant and getting yourself in the right rooms. Yeah, and getting yourself, the environment is often what's in your head. Yeah. That is where my, that's where I create my environment. You know, if I fill it with negativity and self doubt and the noise that other people want to bring, that is not an environment where I will be positive and have a growth mindset. So really take care of your, of your thoughts, really take care of the things that you listen to yourself say to you and really work on that mindset and, and just hold tight to your gut. and to who you really are because you can't do anything if you're not going to be authentic. You've got to know who you are and what you really want and then that's it. Don't let anything stop you. Yeah, love that. What a beautiful way to end the podcast. I can't wait for the listeners to listen to this one. I'm so excited. And so you are on social media now, aren't you? that's laugh. But hold on, hold on, because, listen, because people are going to want to speak to you, okay? They really are, they're gonna wanna connect with you. So, say it loud, say it proud, how can people connect with you on socials? Well, I have an Instagram account that's absolutely fantastic. I'm just learning Instagram. That's 2025's goal, amongst other things, is to be good at Instagram. I'm properly crap at it. And if anybody wants a laugh, just go on my Instagram. But within a few months, and it will get better, but it's Lucinda's real property. Perfect, perfect, there you go. as always, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official, Girls in Property on Instagram. There's some really exciting things coming up actually. I've got an exciting announcement for next week because I'm actually announcing a new sponsor for Girls in Property. I'm so excited about this partnership and sponsorship with this particular person. She's absolutely amazing and you're gonna see it when you see who it is. So really exciting things happening for girls and property. And yeah, just can't wait to see everybody at the retreat as well. A lot of people have said to me, Athena, where are the tickets? How can we buy the tickets? The answer is the tickets haven't been released yet. The tickets are being released on the 10th of February. So 10th of February is when you'd be able to actually buy your annual tickets. There's gonna be 80 tickets up for grabs. And I'm doing a wait list beforehand. And then we shall go from there. But yes. are such an incredible supporter of women and the way you're changing women's lives. Honestly, through Property is phenomenal and I will be eternally grateful to you. First of all, for having the podcast which changed my life and put the light bulb on. Then all the support you've given me and the people I've met because of you. Honestly, you're incredible and I just want to applaud you and thank you from the bottom of my heart. love you lots. Thank you so much for that. And what I love actually is how I believe that you listened one day to the podcast and then sat in that cafe and there will be somebody listening to your episode and it will spur them on to do that. And I tell you what, Lucinda, when you receive that message of that person who listens to the podcast and goes and says to you, Lucinda, you changed my life. Honestly, it just gets you right in the feels and it's something that money can never never buy So yeah, what a lovely positive way to finish the podcast Thank you. I'd love to hear from anyone and I'm here for you all. All you ladies and guys, anybody. Just, you know, if you want a bit of support, if you want a bit of, come on, go for it. I'm your girl. Love it, love it. And of course you will be at the retreat, won't you? gorgeous with bells on. Hoping to meet another amazing person or another amazing person. It's just full of incredible women. Yeah, love it. amazing. But yeah, guys, if you need anything, you know where I am, always drop into my DMs. They have really exploded recently. So if I'm taking a bit of time to get back to you, apologies, I'll get back to you when I can. But yeah, can't wait to see you all soon. If you need anything, just let me know. And as always, if you want to book a discovery call, even just for a chat to understand where you are now and where you want to be. And if I can help point you in the right direction, I'm more than happy to help. But have an amazing week. Hopefully the sunshine comes out once again. and look after yourselves wherever you may be. Thank you again for listening. Thanks guys. Bye. Bye.