Let’s Talk Money: Meet Kim McGinley, Our New Sponsor from VIBE Finance

Welcome back to a special episode of Girls in Property! In this episode, your host Athena is joined by Kim McGinley, the new sponsor of the show and a seasoned expert in finance from VIBE Finance. They dive into Kim’s journey in the finance world, the power of building authentic relationships, and the challenges women face in a male-dominated industry.

Kim shares her insights on the importance of financial education, the need for stronger regulations, and the realities of bridging loans. She also offers valuable advice for first-time property investors, stressing the importance of having a reliable support system in place. Athena and Kim explore the ins and outs of broker fees, specialist finance, and the launch of the Specialist Finance Academy, which is designed to empower brokers and investors alike.

The conversation wraps up with a focus on community, mentorship, and the ethical standards needed to succeed in property investment. This episode is packed with wisdom for anyone looking to take bold steps in their financial journey — and do it the right way! 

Welcome to the Girls in Property family, Kim! 

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Thank you to our main sponsor Kim McGinley from VIBE Finance

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So I have a very, very special podcast for you today, which I'm so, so excited about. I have actually got this, had this person on the podcast before, which was an absolutely amazing, amazing episode. However, I am now so, happy and so thrilled to reintroduce this person as the brand new sponsor for Girls in... property. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce Kim McGinley from Five Finance. Hey Kim! Hi, I'm just sitting here smiling as you're introducing this. So yeah, hi. You're back. You're back with a bang. I love it. And welcome to the girls and property family. Thank you so much. Honestly, I'm really excited for us to be kind of collaborating on this. So yeah, very, very exciting. I know, and you know what? We've obviously known each other for some time, you know, and I think that's what's so beautiful about this is the fact that we are first and foremost friends. And then from there, the sort of business relationship grew and then grew into, I think it's about sort of values and morals and what we want to achieve together within this industry. And that's where we sort of went, well, you know, and I've always said, I've always watched you and just thought, wow, what a fantastic, brilliant, authentic, genuine person. And that is what Girls and Property stands for. And I think that with sponsorship, that's what I'm really keen to really put forward is what is it that we need in this industry? And particularly powerhouse women doing amazing, amazing things. Cause let's face it, finance is so male dominated and you are just cutting right through it. So yes, so welcome first and foremost. There will be some listeners who would have heard your podcast before and your story before. However, we also do have some new listeners as well. So before we go into sort of today's podcast and celebrations and everything, can you first take the time to introduce yourself? Maybe tell people something that they wouldn't know about you, something really cool and funky, and then we'll take the conversation from there. Cool and funky doesn't really ring a bell with me. I'm a little bit quirky, but yes. So I'm Kim McGinley, the founder and director of Vibe Finance. I've been running Vibe, my own business now for seven years, just coming up to in April. So, and it's been a journey, absolute journey. So I started off just me, myself and I, and I've kind of grown in a team from then and it's gone through all of the crap that we've all gone through, COVID and everything else, Liz Trust. But before that I used to work for the lenders. So. my brokerage comes at this from a completely different aspect to many of the brokers that are out there. Utilizing my experience of seeing the good, bad, the ugly. From all the brokers that I used to work with, there's some fantastic brokers. I do always need to kind of put that out there. yeah, and the relationships that we've got, you've mentioned it, Athena, like we had a close relationship before business even came into it. And I think that is the ethos of how I build relationships. And we talk about this all the time with networking and things like that. So Yeah, my relationships are key with the lenders, all the people that used to work with. So we offer something truly valuable that on these types of deals are very quirky when you start looking at investor financing. And those relationships are so paramount to knowing who to go to to push those boundaries with the lenders. And that is our superpower. That's our super strength. So yeah, we definitely give. not just a good service to clients, but we can definitely add an extra layer of that value to pushing these deals through. I love that. And do you know what the most frequent thing I think I hear from both men and women when they're looking for a broker is you really the ideal situation is to just have one broker for the rest of your life effectively. Who knows you, who knows all of your details. You haven't got to repeat yourself, but also therefore to build that relationship with them because sometimes I'll speak to people, not even who are starting out just in general and they say, oh, I don't want to ask the broker that question. It might be a silly question. I don't want them to think that we're silly. And I think that sometimes different brokers can have that different, you know, attitude as it were. And I think that what's so great about you is you just break down all those barriers and you just say, you no, ask anything and that's what we're here for. And then you take that forward. And that's what I love about what you guys do. I think the education side is so super important and there is a lot of jargon in our industry. There are so many acronyms and things like that, that there is no such thing as a stupid question. I'd rather clients ask me, and we always categorize this, and we emphasize this when we're talking to clients, especially for the first time, like, you understand it? Is there anything I can break down for you? But I always encourage that, yeah, it's a massive learning curve. Yeah, definitely. again, in such sort of a male dominated space, know, vibe has really sort of pushed through that with your bold colours, you know, your just electric energy like at networking events, I just always feel that, there's Kim, you know, there she is in the purple hoodie, you know, and I just love it. And yeah, it's brilliant. Actually, we should say shouldn't we? So you've got your, for viewers that will be sort of listening to this. You've obviously got your colors on today, which is your purple and your hoodie, which is five finance. And I finally got my girls and girls and property sort of t-shirt. I was saying to Kim before I came on, it's not perfect. The logo with the front is too big, but you know what? I'm loving all this. Like, let's get a notepad. Let's get a pin. Let's get a t-shirt. I said to you when we first joined this call that, you know, there's nothing better than branded merch. Seeing your logo still, it still floats my boat now getting something branded. Yeah, you're like, that's mine. How cool is that? I love that. So Kim, before we carry on with today's episode, can I ask what you are celebrating at this moment in time? Wow, I am celebrating. I feel a really weird calm at the minute when I probably should be feeling very panicky because I'm about to launch the Specialist Finance Academy on Thursday. Very, very big moment for me actually. And also for my industry, it's not really heard of. it's going to be supporting brokers. So not only clients that need to understand specialist finance, the importance of other brokers diversifying into this space and teaching it the right ethical way. It is an unreg space. Anyone can wake up and become a mortgage broker. But I'm also covering for George who's on paternity leave. There's a lot of things going on. but I imagine, yeah, I just feel very calm at the minute. So I'm celebrating that. you that's so important to celebrate in such and you know what, that's such like a superpower because if you're telling me that you're about to launch something on Thursday, which I know you have put blood, sweat, tears in into that and it's so needed within your industry and yet you still feel calm. Like that's real growth, Kim. Like that's, that's amazing. So a lot where I'm like Kim, there's no need to panic and I have to do a lot of kind of thought process to kind of bring myself to like, it is what it is, don't put too much pressure on yourself, but it takes time. Yeah, definitely. And I just want to go on what you just said there, because I think it's a really important point you just made, where you're saying, look, it is unregulated. Anybody could wake up tomorrow and become a mortgage broker. First of all, how scary is that? I know, it's literally petrifying and especially when you're a broker like we are working in this space and we know that there's so many out there that don't have the experience, they're not giving the right advice and there's no comeback for that. These deals aren't regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, you don't have to have a qualification. It is insane. It's honestly mental. And they're in charge of literally dealing with hundreds of thousands of pounds of people's hard earned money and lending, which let's face it, is so confusing, which we're gonna come onto as well. that's just, I mean, it's like property education as well. Anyone could go and do a three day course and then turn around and be like, I'm a property guru. We've all seen those, haven't we? We've all seen those. So yeah. I think regulation is massive and I'm gonna talk to you a bit later actually about your sort of specialist course that you're doing for the brokers as well, because I think that's so important to talk about. So what am I celebrating at the moment? I'm, do you know, I feel a weird sense of calmness as well, which is quite nice. I do, but you know what? I really feel that, I tell you what, Kim, I feel really aligned. I feel really aligned in understanding like, my purpose and what it is that I'm trying to achieve. And I think that that's so important. think as soon as you find that it's quite easy to then drive it forward. It's frustrating because you don't go as quickly as you want to go. There's always that, that, that's there as a business owner. But as long as you're aligned and then you're working with people such as yourself that you're in alignment with, I mean, this sponsorship is a massive celebration for me because, you you, you learn so much when you start and what you think you're supposed to be chasing like the money and you know, people offering you all these things and you going, yeah, great, like, let's do it. And sometimes you don't think to yourself, cause you, you'd never done it before about the consequences sort of with that. And then you learn that nothing in this world is worth selling your soul for or selling your identity for or what it is that you're trying to build. And in that you learn that actually money is not the driving force. Yes, we need money. Of course we need money to invest. I want to get into a new studio for girls and property. Of course I need money for that. Of course I do. But at the same time, it's important to understand why we're doing it and to therefore align and be the people that we want to, the change we kind of want to see in this world as well. And I don't know about you, I'm sure you get this all the time, but the messages you receive to be like, thank you for showing up with such genuine authenticity. And I've told my friend about you because I've said that you're the only person she should talk to in this industry. It's priceless, it really is. And I think that that's where the calmness comes from, knowing that you can sleep at night because we're good people. And I know that we can say we're good people and we're just gonna drive goodness forward. That's what I wanna do. right, honestly, I think it's the serenity and the alignment comes with that. They come hand in hand. And I think once you find that place, it's a lovely place to be. I haven't been there until recently, in recent months. you know, spent a lot of time kind of going around in circles, but finding a purpose is so important. And like you say, being able to sleep at night, be a good person, good morals, you know, it doesn't take a lot, but also knowing that by putting yourself out there, like you do, Athena, and rightly so on socials, people will judge you, you're not gonna be everyone's cup of tea, I'm not either, but again, when you reach that acceptance, for those messages that reach out, honestly, I'm still touched now with people that even, see the people that like my posts, they might not comment all the time, but they're always there supporting me in the background and it never goes unnoticed. And when you meet people at an event, they're like, oh my God, I've been following your journey. And I'd have no idea, and I'm like, oh my God, like, you know, someone's following what I'm doing, but it still blows my mind. Do you ever sometimes feel that, you know, when you talk about this on your socials in terms of people who maybe aren't your cup of tea and comments and things like that, do you feel it's like a sense of jealousy for you where other people see what you're doing and they're like, oh, who, you know, what's she doing or what does it come from? the word jealousy. I get exactly where you're coming from. think what I've learned, the biggest takeaway from last year, they're not my issues. That is their issues. Whatever that is, that is them. And that acceptance, that mindset has just transformed my life because I can't control other people. I don't want to. But however, a lot of people deal with issues until they start really working on themselves. Yes, it could be jealousy that stemmed from certain area, but I completely avoid those types of people now. It's not good for me. It's not good for my journey on where I'm going, but that understanding that it's not you, it's them is just, yeah, transformational for me. I love that. And did you see the Bell Robbins sort of podcasts and books? Like let them, you know, let them, love it. words are let them and intentional. That's what I'm going into this year with. So yeah, let them. Yeah. that's a beautiful word. I love that word in 10. Okay. That's my word of the day Kim in Intention. I like that everything I do today will have intention. Okay. Okay. So speaking of intention So yes, so I really want to basically help as many people in this industry both men and women because I actually have quite a lot of guys that listen to this podcast as well, which I've been finding out recently which is amazing so a lot of guys and girls I want them to feel confident to invest and to move forward. Too many times do I see people come to me and have the, again, intention, have the best intentions to move forward, to want to do it, to want to do the project, but there's something that doesn't quite hit the mark where they then go to have to actually sign the documents, go forward, get the lending, whatever it may be. And they just don't go forward with it because something holds them back. And I'm not sure if that's their confidence. I'm not sure if that's knowledge. I'm not sure if it's a mixture of everything. but what I wanna try and do one person at a time with your help is to break down those barriers, to give people the confidence to invest in themselves and property and move forward. So let's try do that today, one day at a time. And what's gonna be fantastic about you Kim is because I really, really wanna do this so much within this industry is of course I'm gonna have you speaking on the podcast today and helping as many as we can. And then tomorrow at 7.30 PM, Tuesday, the 4th of February, I've actually got you also speaking for the community, Girls and Property, in a Q and A session as well. Because I think when you listen to a podcast, it's great, but actually we also want people to ask questions that they need in that moment and to then have the response. So before I ask you sort of questions about what I think, if you were to tell me about your experience and... The number one thing that holds people back or the number one question somebody might ask you that could really help a listener today who's just about to buy a flip and they therefore need the lending for a flip. What would be your advice to them? I think always start with the basics when it comes to specialist finance. It is so fast. There are so many strategies. There's two key takeaways that I'd say when you're doing your first flip. And I hate the word power team. It comes up all the time, but it really, really is super, super important, especially for flips. I'm not just talking brokers. I'm talking solicitors. I'm talking builders, getting quotations. it can make or break a deal, honestly, if you get the wrong solicitor or broker. so due diligence is my number one thing when it comes to especially flips. The second one for flips is an exit being that in the current market, I know many people that have gone onto bridging loans intending to flip, but because the market has either stagnated in certain areas, they're now having to look at a plan B, which is to retain the property. I think always have Contingency plans in place, what if it doesn't sell? Can you remortgage it? What does that look like? So really understanding, because you'll probably see it, Athena, the unforeseen can happen. People don't give themselves enough time if they're taking a bridging loan. And that's another thing we're seeing massively at the minute is re-bridges. So clients haven't given themselves enough time to do the works and exit. That they are now having, you know, re-bridging loans like extra 2 % fees, default interest sometimes. So there are, as you can tell, it kind of snowballs into other factors, all these key points, but I wouldn't say there's any one, but there's a lot to consider and this is where the education comes in. Exactly. So I feel that bridging has a negative connotation attached to it recently. I think some people have a positive experience. Some people have a negative experience. So just for listeners who have no understanding or knowledge about the terminology that we're using, and of course we want to break those barriers. So what, first of all, what does bridging mean if someone was to listen to this? How can they use it? And what do they need? What are the, how about this? What are the positives about what bridging can do for them? Okay, so bridging finance is in essence short-term finance. For a normal mortgage, you're looking at like a two-year fixed, maybe on a 10-year term, up to like 30, 35 years on a mortgage. Bridging finance is typically up to around 12 months, sometimes 15, 18, 24 if you're doing a ground-up development or heavy conversion. So for short-term finance, you pay higher rates. It's an absolute given. The fundamentals for bridging is there's two aspects. So if you're buying just a straightforward bridge, and then if you're buying a bridge, but they're funding the works as well. So there's two different types of bridging loans that you can get. There are so many amazing points about bridging that it used to have a really bad rep back in the day. There was many people putting on bridging loans when they shouldn't have been put on bridging loans, completely high like astronomical rates. Whereas now it's a lot more ethical. There's so many more best practice bridging lenders that are out there. And the thing about bridging, one of the things that I would stress is don't chase the lowest rate. It doesn't mean, it needs a holistic view when you're looking at bridging. So if you're looking for speed, is the lender quick? They might be cheap, but they might be slow. So rate kind of goes out the window and I educate our clients like, look, you need a lender that's going to work with you. Should the unforeseen happen that you need a bit of flexibility. there's like hundreds of bridging lenders out there. They all say they're quick. They all say they're cheap and things like that. So finding the right lenders, we've really whittled our panel down. So we know we're working with the right people for the right projects. But yeah, bridging is amazing. It allows you to borrow short term. It might be higher cost financing, but you increase the value and you go again. You either flip it, sell it, take out all your funds back out or you remortgage it. So it definitely has a place in the market for speed. It's great. People think you can get it in three days. can't, mean, on the odd occasion on a rare deal, typically it's like four to six weeks, even eight weeks at some time. So. But yeah, it's amazing. It can be a great tool. When it's not used well is when the numbers don't work. Either the cost of works are wrong at the beginning, or they're paying too much for it at the beginning. So the numbers from an investor's point of view is super, super important. I love that. That was perfectly explained. So thank you so much for that. And then I'm just thinking to myself about different scenarios. So the majority of scenarios I see is where people think, I only need the bridging for six months, therefore I'll take it for six months. And it's like, come on guys, 95 % of the time, there will be an issue that comes up. There will be something that you dig up that you didn't know was there in the property, or your contractor will go off sick. or the solicitor won't do something, like something will actually happen and it will go from six months to nine months to 12 months and then that's who you get caught. always, always should be taking out for a longer period of time because am I thinking if you, like Kim, just so I'm clear with this, let's say that you took it out for 12 months but you only actually needed it for nine months. Could you therefore actually pay it back sooner as well? You can pay bridging loans back whenever you want. Some lenders might have a one month interest or three month interest minimum that they would charge you. But the chances of like, I've not seen a bridge go through within three months and repaid unless it's a different kind of scenario. But yeah, you are only charged interest as well. So there's no early repayment charges typically for like a straightforward flip or a bridging loan. So you can repay this whenever you want. how you pay a bridge back is different to a normal mortgage. So again, really important that with a normal mortgage, you make monthly payments, capital repayment or interest only with a bridging loan. What they tend to do is retain the interest or roll the interest up. Now, if they're retaining the interest and you're taking a 12 month term, they will deduct at the outset, you've got your gross loan of what they're lending you, let's say 75 % for now. What they'll do is take off. 12 months of interest from that figure to get your net loan day one. So whilst they're lending you this, they deduct a 2 % interest fee typically, and then the interest, and then you're left with that towards the purchase. So you've got a gross loan and a net loan. But if you redeem that within six months, you'll be rebated back in six months of interest that you haven't used the loan for. So you're only charged interest for the months that you take the loan, in essence. Exactly. And then, you know, I asked this question with a purpose, Kim, when I asked it right, like, where do you then come in, terms of, we now understand about lenders, because a person could go, for example, to, directly to a bridging lender. So why would they come to you to then be advised to which lender to go to? without a doubt is insider knowledge. We've been there, we've experienced it, we've tested the systems, we've seen the front end, the back end, we've had feedback from clients. And I think that power of that knowledge, it's easy to just go to a lender that you think of, so yeah, they'll just do it. But it could end up being more expensive than an actual, a really solid option that could, we're talking thousands potentially in fees. So I think as a broker without a doubt, that's what we know. Yeah. seen, I'll tell you where I've seen brokers do amazing things is also knowing the right value to come out as well and organizing for the right value to come out, which I think, solicitors, we know which firms have solicitors work well. We know exactly the ones that don't. We've got a blacklist. Yeah, there's so many more fundamentals to it than just finding the right mortgage for someone. It's all of the actual processes and the systems behind it to make that work. And if communication falls down, it's gone. But just to go back on your point as well, Athena, so I've been doing a flip since last, we bought it in last June and we took a 12 month, bridging loan out to refurb it. And the property's been sitting there ready since the end of August. And this goes back to like the stagnant market, the chain's fallen down twice. Thankfully, we are about to complete. But it would have been so easy for us to say, no, just a six or a nine month bridge. But knowing what we know, obviously being in the mortgage market, I'm so glad we took out the 12 months term because no one wants financial pressure either, right? That is not fun to know that you've got this deadline coming up. So yeah, I'm actually living and breathing this advice myself. So it's not like I'm just talking it and saying, you should do this. So I've seen it, the house has been sitting there since September, very frustrating, but it's about to sell. So yeah, definitely give yourself time. Wow, so you've actually had a property that's been ready since September, but because the market has just literally just stalled. Right. whether their buyers have pulled out or things like that. So yeah, it's just the way it's been really. So you've had to pay this bridging loan for the last however many months now since January. Okay. Right. we just want to repay it as soon as possible because each month the interest is, we're still paying the interest on it. yeah. Yeah. But it's getting there now, so it's good. Yeah. made you decide to do a flip instead of, for example, like a bi refurbishment refinance? So my husband is in the trade, so he's a plumber, he's done carpentry work, and I think, yeah, very, very handy. So, and he now supports me with Vibe, so he doesn't have a full-time job. So putting him to use kind of doing that and going in with some partners of ours just made sense, it's down the road. it was a tester though, we've learned from it, you know, the unforeseen comes up and things like that, but. was the biggest unforeseen that came up on your flip? for us, costs can spiral quite quickly on a flip if you're not careful with budgets and stuff like that. And then if you don't get your GDV figure quite right, so the market has actually dropped since we purchased it, which hasn't helped, which again, due to labor coming in, the budget and things like that, and just in this area specific as well. So we're not getting as much as what we wanted for it, but I'm treating everything like a learning curve as well. You learn, you move on to the next one. So yeah. Yeah, well, had Lucinda on about a week ago, one of my mentees, did a podcast with her, absolutely amazing. She's done extraordinary things and she said a line which I loved, which was, if you're not winning, you're learning. Which for me, learning is winning anyway. So yeah, I loved that. Brilliant. So we've got bridging. So we understand bridging. I think, do you know what, for me, I think when people talk about costs and things, I think the only thing when I was looking at bridging for my own, because I was going to do like a HMO conversion and I was looking through all the details, it was like going to cost X amount for them to come out. Then it was going to cost X amount for them to release the money. Then it was going to cost X I was like, what are you talking about? Like all these hidden costs. So read the documents. This is what I was going to say. With bridging finance, it is actually broken down on the initial heads of terms. It's easy for it to get lost in translation within the terms as to what's getting deducted from the gross loan. But you're right, it's super, super important, especially when you've got heavy refurbs and conversions and ground up developments where you've got QS reports involved as well and when that happens and asset manager visits and things like that for drawdowns. So it's really, really important to know this. Yeah. But do you know what? That's what we're here for. And what's going to be amazing is you're going to be doing an update, like market update and Q &A for the community every single quarter. So, you know, as soon as people have projects coming up or have things that are happening, like we're just going to be the people to break the barriers and just help as many people. Because I think there's so many people want to do it. I think that the fear is that they just don't know how. And I also think that they don't know a bit like training really. I don't know why I'm comparing it, but I do compare it just because of the non-regulated stuff. Like they don't know who to trust. They don't know who the good ones are, as it were. And I think that's what's important to try and push forward is who are the good ones. a lot of the time, by the way, I did this when I first started. So I hold my hands up. Definitely hold my hands up people. You know, when you first start, you think to yourself, you know, you see the brokers who don't charge a fee, right? Don't charge a fee. Let's talk about that, Kim. podcast for this one. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. when I first did my very first Bytelette, I knew very little back then, and I was like, I'm gonna go with this guy, I don't even remember his name. I'm gonna go with this guy, he doesn't charge a fee. You know, great, what a lovely man. How naive is that? Yeah, it's an interesting conversation amongst brokers as well, because it does vary. We are absolutely not a fee free broker. I sell, I know that we can rely on the value of what we offer, 1 million percent. Clients will know what they're getting. We're on TrustPilot, we're on Google reviews. There's enough experience. We're on socials. see what, everything that I put. So people do build a trust with the team, but it's the years of experience behind Vibe that somebody's paying for. and like I said, like knowing that value and selling it on the value, it shouldn't then come down to price if that makes sense, but it's an interesting topic for sure. Yeah. it must be so, so difficult for you. I mean, do you have that where people will approach you having seen you, you know, do amazing, incredible things in the amount of vast knowledge that you've had that you've had to gain yourself. And then they say to you, I'm not happy to pay a broker fee. Yeah, and there would have been times in the first two years I wouldn't either charge a fee or I'd be clamoring over myself to compete with other brokers. So if my fee was such and such and they said, well, this other broker told me that. And I'm like, okay, I'll match it. I don't do that anymore. Like we don't need to do that as a business. Like I said, it comes back to the quality of the value of what we're giving clients. And for that, I will stand by it every single day. The team that I've got behind Vibe, I trust them implicitly and they graft so much to get these deals over the line. So yeah, I don't do that anymore. If I know that another broker is involved, I don't compete. It's far easier for the client and for ourselves. It gets too complicated if there's other brokers involved and then it becomes, they expect you to kind of match it. So, and also you're devaluing your service. If you're like, okay, yeah, I'll reduce it. That's not selling a quality of service to a client, I don't think. But yeah, like I said, it's an interesting subject, but yeah. I think we're at a place now, I think established the way we are, that we can stand by what we do on million percent. Yeah. Yeah. you're you this idea this notion of attract don't chase You know to say, do you know what, we're not the broker for you then, or if that's one of the biggest factors for you, it's not, we're not the right broker, but, it's having that, yeah. Yeah, because if you're too quick, like I said, like I used to be to reduce fees, it's just not our model. can't be now, you know, to establish the way we are. So, but yeah, it's super powerful when you start doing that and it's learning to be okay to walk away. Yeah. So if we, I love that, I love all of that. And then I'm just trying to think about some scenarios where the girls have come to me, for example, in the community and asked questions. So a lot of them are doing flips at the moment, quite a few of them, and quite a few of them are doing HMO conversions as well, because they're seeing the yields and everything. And there's so much to it, isn't there, just in regards to a kind of understanding the risk. For example, is, If people didn't want to do bridging, but they wanted to do a flip or a HMO conversion, is there a different way to gain lending finance other than bridging? Okay. a bridging loan. has to be short term finance. There are these products that are being banded about that are bridged to term. I personally advise clients not to do those. The process is sluggish. It's being treated like a mortgage right at the outset. It's not truly a bridge. Yes, you're being guaranteed an exit. But the thing is with bridging loans, and we've seen the market change, it can change like that. And if you're committing to an exit, six to nine, 12 months in advance, what's saying that that's gonna be the most competitive option for you? So I actually, I tell my clients that I'd advise them not to go down that route unless there was a very specific reason why they wanted to. But no, essentially it's against your mortgage conditions if you're flipping a property. if we're talking heavy reef, if it's just, it's habitable at the minute, you might just wanna put a new bathroom in, a lick of paint. That's not really a bridging loan. It's when you start getting into electrics, carpets, doors, kitchens, all of those things. The thing is, and the bridging loan, when you understand it, can work really well for you, because what it means is you can then borrow immediately on the increased value, take your money out, or sell the property and go again. rather than being hit by an early repayment charge, but yeah, you just don't want to be in a position where the lender could call the loan in. if you're going through this big conversion to a HMO or something, you know, on a mortgage. absolutely. And I tell you, I've just thought of another question that I get asked quite frequently. even myself, actually, as an example of this, so obviously I'm a business owner at the moment, this is my full-time job, this is what I do. But because it's still considered by lenders and others infant, because there isn't the three years books and pay slips and all of this, how do people then get around that? I mean, can... Can somebody like me, for example, as a business owner that can't prove the three years, could I get a bridging loan, say tomorrow? Bridging loans, I'll be honest with you, are super easy, no matter your income situation, because it's mainly governed by the exit plan. if you're looking to rent it, that the rental coverage fits and things like that. As far as a mortgage goes, so this is the one big thing I mentioned earlier, you don't wanna be taking a bridging loan unless you've got that exit nailed down. That is one of the biggest things. So if you're working with a broker, I did put a post on recently, that if you're working with a broker that's purely just specializing in bridging, and not even talking to you about the exit, that is a massive like red warning flag central. So yeah, I've completely lost my trail of thought. Where was I going with this? What was the question? having an exit on bridging compared to say a mortgage when it's the income. So it's more when you come to take out like, let's say a buy to let or a HMO mortgage. So as long as you can demonstrate affordability, some lenders will have a minimum income. Sometimes you'll have to be self-employed for a year. So you've got your first year set of accounts, but there's always a lender option out there. Unless you're talking some serious heavy adverse, the property is about to fall down. there should always be a lender for you. So I wouldn't get hung up about that. I think there's so many, like plenty of options. And if you've got self-employed income in the background, but you've just set up a new business, as long as you've got, you can demonstrate that there's that affordability there to cover any voids, then you should be golden. What about residential then? What about somebody who wants to buy their own property? a completely different kettle of fish. So if you wanna live in it, I mean, I'm CMAP qualified. I don't write residential deals. It's not my forte. But for, yeah, High Street, there are lenders out there with one year. Halifax is one of the biggest ones for that one year set of trading accounts. But the minute you get into that three year kind of mark, it just opens your options up so much. And then there's like so many layers to it. Then it comes down to is there retained profit? Do they take it on dividend income? I'd definitely speak to a reg broker about that side. But again, that's so interesting to know. It's so interesting to know that, okay, it's all we're talking lending, we're talking finance, but actually, no, you specialize in your specialist finance, and that's what you specialize in. And that's what you know. And then there's somebody for the resi stuff. So I love that. Rezzy and you know what? No, specialist grey areas all day long for me. Yeah, that's what you're doing. And actually that brings me on to a question I love to ask you, Kim, which I haven't asked you before actually, which is how did you even get into this? Like, why did you choose this lending path? because I don't, this is my opinion, you know, I don't think it's that glitz and glamorous at all, but I'm like, so how did you find it? Like 99 % of people in this industry, fell into it. I went to college straight from school. I've always had jobs. always wanted to earn my own money. And I went to full-time college doing drama and acting. I used to love that. It's kind of like one of my strengths and I used to love it back in the day. But I realized very quickly, I couldn't just leave college and become an actress or... So I thought... Not that was wasting my time, but I went and got a job at Abbey National. My friends were there in the contact center and it literally just went on from there. And I'm so grateful because whilst it's not a sexy subject at all, it's bloody brilliant though. Once you get into it and you understand it and you can earn some decent money. I'm not gonna say that I do all of this because you know, I don't want to earn money. I do. I want to secure my future for my children. And there's some great money to be made in this if you do things the right way. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Money is sexy. Let's face it. is sexy and we as Brits, we have this kind of way of talking about money like it's a dirty word and someone's bragging and things like that. And I wish that would change. And I'm hoping that does in the future because I love seeing people do well. I aspire, I love hearing people's stories. And again, for those that don't like hearing that, it says more about them and their own insecurities maybe, but yeah, think money's a great subject and we should talk about it more. we should talk about it more. Love that. Absolutely. then Kim, talk to me about this new project that you're working on that's then launching on Thursday. Cause I think it's brilliant and so necessary in the industry. So what are you launching? my gosh. over the last few years, we've spoken about residential brokers. And again, being totally honest, specialist finance is a completely new world if you've come from a regulated background. And so many brokers are out there that are put off by it. They're too scared to get involved. I think like with old school bridging, specialist finance has got a bit of a taboo against it as well to be too complicated. And I'm not saying it's not complex, but once you understand it, you can try and teach it. So running vibe, I've trained brokers from scratch and seeing their journey to get to where they get to. And I've also been helping brokers in the background to understand it. And yeah, being on the women's retreat with Rosalia last year that we ran together, hearing the women around the table talk about it and say that the help that they needed, a light bulb moment literally went off. And I was like, I could start something here. Like it would fill my bucket. it would give me a new thing to focus on as well. And yeah, the Specialist Finance Academy was born for brokers essentially. So yeah, the membership is launching on Thursday. I'm creating content, resources, live Q &As, webinars to really help brokers diversify into this sector because we do need more good quality ethical brokers. And I'm so excited. And it's actually led on from there that something I've... can't do just yet because I need to walk before I can run is run courses for investors to learn the fundamentals, to do beginner courses in bridging, to... And again, if I can tailor it in a way that can deliver in the no-nonsense approach that I've got and trying to break down that complexity, I can just see this really becoming something very, very good. see it for you as well. I think it's so necessary in this industry. I don't know about you Kim but I think that there's been a lot of the same people walking the paths for a very very long time and scooping it all up and I think their time is numbered if I'm honest with you. And I agree. And I think there's, there's space for everyone. And I think by doing what we do on socials, like we've been working hard, right. On our socials for our businesses and utilizing that aspect and building that trust element will no end help with the specialist finance Academy. So I am super excited. I just need to, like I say, rein myself in a bit and not take on too much initially, but I'm very excited to see both vibe and the Academy grow. in that sense, yeah. When I talk about it, I love talking about it, because I smile, because I just think it's gonna evolve into something great. I nearly put the launch back this week, and I had some, I'm a perfectionist, I'm a massive perfectionist, I wanted it to be this beast initially that just wowed everyone. And don't get me wrong, I'm still super proud of what I've done with it till now, but I got told, Kim, just start. Start it, it will evolve, it's gonna grow. just start and it was the best advice that I could have got last week because I was in that moment of being like, I'm not ready. But actually, I don't know if I'm ever going to be ready to do this. it's happening. It's happening. Yeah. it's so much fun. And like, Kim, you know me, you know I'm a perfectionist as well. And I want everything to be perfect. And sometimes, like even the smallest thing for me, for example, like a post, you know, I get so fixated and I'm like, the post isn't perfect. So I can't put it out. And then, and then you miss the boat and you're like, yeah, but why? Like for God's sake, it doesn't need to be perfect. And yeah. And what we don't realize is It's so needed in the industry what it is that you're about to provide and I'm just so excited for you with it and I just really see it doing such good and I think that there needs to be more good in this industry. There really, really does. There needs to be some of us who just cut through all the noise that just say, not that way, this way, not that way, this way. vulnerable place to be again. I feel a little bit like I did when I launched Vibe for the first time. Because I was this new girl on the block. No one really knew me. And I was like shouting about Vibe everywhere I could on social media. Like I made myself be heard and seen. And I feel like I'm in that vulnerable point again with the academy because again, it is completely unknown. There'll be people that want me to fail and there'll be people that want me to succeed, but they don't know what it is. So it's this weird excitement, sickness feeling I've got at the minute. Yeah. And also you've proved, haven't you? You've already proven to yourself that you can succeed and you can do really well and it will just grow into something. It's the same for girls and property, it really is. That's how I feel about it. Every time I talk about it, I have so many of these ideas that I'm gonna go forward with and sometimes I even have to say to people, like, this is my idea. And they're like, that sounds amazing. I'm like, that's the five-year plan, you know? yeah. I've already got, I'm already there. I'm already like, that's in five years, that's in four years, that's in two years. And for me, I tell you, I'm going say something out loud that I haven't said before actually, that I've been manifesting for some time in my own brain, as it were, which is, I, and I'm thinking if I say it out loud, maybe I'll do it. Yeah. So basically I released this program called the Property Lifestyle Accelerator, which is a self-led program. where people who started into property can get involved at seven modules about how I started to do it. And it's done really, really well. But then what happens is, is then there's a gap between the self-led course and then I offer one-to-one mentoring at a much, much higher price bracket. And a lot of people have said to me, is there anything in between? Like, is there anything in between the one-to-one mentoring and the self-led course where we could maybe do some group mentoring or group coaching or something because... They're like, really want to learn from you. You know, we don't want to go over to these other really big training courses. We want to learn what you have to say. And I keep saying to them, oh, I don't have something at the moment. I don't have something at the moment. And now I'm sort of thinking to myself, I like you Kim, I can help a lot of people. I know, I know I can help a lot of people. have good things to say and good knowledge to give. And I'm thinking to myself, What if I bridge that gap? What if I become the person that gets people started and off the ground? Because I used to think that I wanted to help people that, well, I want to help everybody, but I think the people that really fill my soul are the people who are still in their full-time job and they want to leave their job, or they've just got some inheritance from their grandmother and they don't know what to do with it. And they're the people that want to be like, here's the education, like, here's what you need. And then I want to see them flourish. I want to be like a butterfly, like off you go, you know, off you go. And I think that maybe group coaching is such a beautiful way that others can feel included, learn from each other. And so I'm wondering if I bridge that gap. And then the other question that I've got, which I'm now thinking to myself is, is I believe that I shouldn't limit that just to women. I believe that men also come to me. who listen to the podcast, who want to have that right person to teach them. And I'm like, well, why should I limit it to just women who have that place to go to? Why shouldn't I do it for both men and women as part of that? So I've got a lot of brain cells flying around at the moment. should definitely implement these ideas. You've seen an opportunity and I'm a massive fan. If you see it, you've got to do it. if you, you've now, you're now manifesting it. And I'm a massive, I have truly, truly believed this, that if you believe you can, then you will. Like, and that could be anything. That's what I instill in my children. Like if you want to be or do anything. You can totally do it. You've just got to believe that you can. And that's how I'm approaching this academy. That's how I know it's gonna do really well. I know it will. Yeah. I think when I came to your room, you did like a day in the Ivy and Winchester, we all came together, which was fantastic. I loved that. And I remember speaking to, to a couple of the girls and they were like, yeah, we've already, we're already in with Kim. Like we're already there. And I was like, that's what you need. You know, you need those people behind you to go almost like, I don't even know what you're selling, but, but I'm in whatever, whatever it is, whatever it is I'm in. Yeah. I love that. And do you know what? I, the thing that I think is where you get the best in life is where you can do business together, but also have a laugh and have the best intent. And for us, for this sponsorship, like I'm so excited to just bring people along the journey with us, you know, to powerhouse women just going, right, here we go. We're going to do some good in this industry and just bring everybody with us and hopefully get people investing. Mm-mm. buying properties and making good homes and making money for themselves. Like that's what we really want to, you know, elude on this as it were. but yeah, but Kim, what I want to ask you before, before I finished this podcast is one of the questions that I was listening to Stephen Bartlett do a podcast recently about like two weeks ago when I was in Egypt and he asked a really lovely question. I want to try and ask you on every podcast now that I do going forward. I'm ready. no, no, no, it's a really simple question actually, which is kind of like, is there anything else that you would like to say on this podcast for any listener who is listening regarding if they're wanting to become a mortgage broker, if they're looking to take on their first, second, third investment, if they're looking to just be a business owner and take it forward, like what's your pearl of wisdom you would love to leave with us with? I think that if... There's too many people that hold themselves back and they either think that they're not ready, it's not the right time, can I do it? All I would say is just get some belief in yourself, make that leap, make that jump, invest in yourself and it will come good. Just life's too short, life is far too short to be doing anything you don't wanna be doing. If you're in a job that you hate, and only you have the power to change it and you can. So for me, if I can say anything that would inspire anyone, just do it. Do it for you. So yeah, that's what I'd say. Beautiful. Yes. I'm so glad I asked that question. Yes, that was so good. I loved it. And Kim, obviously, you know, the community members are going to see you tomorrow night at 7.30 PM. But I know a lot of people are also going to want to get in contact with you and do business with you and just just have a general chat with you because you're so amazing. So how can people find you? What's the best way? So I'm on LinkedIn, it's probably the biggest way to find me or on Facebook. either one of those channels is absolutely fine, Perfect. And of course I should say we actually do have you sort of doing a little finance section at the Girls and Property Retreat as well, don't we? Yes we do, yes, yeah can't wait. Yay! And the tickets are actually being released a week later from today, so 10th of February is when the tickets are going to go on sale. So we're just bringing powerhouse women all into a room together to learn from one another. So I'm so excited about it. last year, so I'm so excited. I was gutted because it was around the corner from me as well. I think it was last year or the year before, but yeah, absolutely buzzing. I was at the gala. yeah, so you saw it's got a different vibe, the retreats, the gala, but you were at the gala. So you get to see kind of the crazy level of detail that I like. I think I'm going to try, I'm going to try and get the 360 photo moved back. think that was fun. That was fun. And as always, if you want to find me, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official, just drop into my DMs and just have a chat. Girls and Property on Instagram. And if you want to send me an email, which a couple of you are doing at the moment, it's girlsandpropertypodatgmail.com. As I mentioned, waitlist is going out this week. If you want to join the community to be able to do a Q and A with Kim tomorrow night, then DM me the word community and I'll send you the link to join and then join us, throwing us over there. And then also tickets for the retreat go on sale next week on Monday, 10th of February. So make sure that you are currently on the waitlist that I've put out. and get yourself involved in that. The way it's gonna go is community members will get the first refusal of tickets, then it will go to the wait list and then it will go on general sale and there are only 80 tickets up for grabs. And so far, more than 80 of you have told me you're coming. So that's gonna be really interesting. But Kim, all I'm gonna say is I can't wait to spend more time with you, get you on further podcasts, get you speaking for the community. and just really having this relationship just flourish. I'm super excited and also hoping to champion you and everything that you're doing with your specialist finance academy as well. But thank you for coming on and guys hope you have the most wonderful week ahead of you, whatever you may be doing and yeah, we'll see you soon. Thanks guys. Bye.