Acres of Wealth Part 2 : Resilience, Land Deals & Levelling Up with Ella Hardy

She’s back! 🎉 In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson is joined once again by the brilliant Ella Hardy—land and planning uplift specialist, industry powerhouse, and our very first announced speaker for the Girls in Property Annual Retreat on Friday, 25th April!

Together, Athena and Ella dive into the realities of the property world, celebrating the wins, learning from the challenges, and embracing the resilience needed to push through setbacks. Ella shares invaluable insights on land acquisition, investment strategies, and the game-changing role of mentorship in building a successful career.

They also dig deep into self-belief, persistence, and redefining success beyond financial gain. From tackling imposter syndrome to the truth about land investment, this conversation is packed with honest advice, practical takeaways, and plenty of encouragement.

Plus, they chat about the power of community, the impact of social media on public perception, and why giving back is such a crucial part of success. Whether you’re just starting out or already making moves in property, this episode is full of inspiration to help you grow with confidence.

Tune in now for an engaging, insightful, and laughter-filled discussion on building success in property and land development!

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to another episode of the Girls in Property podcast. How are we all doing this morning? Hope everyone's well. Hope everyone is now swiftly moving in to the end of February going into March and the brighter days are coming. Literally I saw outside the other day, it was like 5pm, 6pm and it was still light outside and I was like, yes, thank you, Lord. The sunshine is coming back. So yes, nearly there guys, nearly there. so on today's episode, I am so excited for this episode, not only because she's an amazing friend of mine, but also because she is actually coming on for part two of her episode of the podcast, as she has been on before, and just incredible women doing incredible things within the property and just an all right amazing person. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce today Ella Hardy. Hey, Ella, how you doing? she's back. I'm super excited to be back on, you know, I love you, Asina. So yeah. and the Girls in Property, I can't wait to see you all again very soon as well and be back on the podcast. So hey. Yeah, I know and you know what's so amazing about it is I remember when we did our first ever episode together and I just remember it was almost like I was, as I was doing the podcast I was almost learning about you for the first time so I was listening to you speak during the podcast and I was like wow I didn't know you could do that and wow you're so amazing and wow and you sort of just continued and developed and you came along to the retreat in April last year. and I learnt more sort of about you and land and everything that you're doing and how you're doing it in such an incredible way to help so many people. And I remember you distinctly coming up to me and in the most Ella way you possibly could and you were like, Athena, I'm speaking at your retreat next year just to let you know. Just to let you know. women. Yeah. You literally came up in my face in the most amazing way and you were like, by the way, I'm speaking at your event. I was like, okay, yes ma'am. I am definitely I love your community. I still have people message me and now talking about my last episode saying I heard you are the girls and property podcast. I loved your episode. I literally had a message last week. So I was like, that's really funny because I'm back on next week. And so yeah, no, it's great. It's great. I you know, I'm happy to be back happy to discuss all things life. related at the moment, especially in the property world. So looking forward to diving straight in. Yeah, definitely. And what I actually found really is that what I'm going to love is this going to be part two of the podcast episode almost because so much has changed for you and for me since the last time I got you on. And what would be really good is to obviously go through your podcast in the usual way that we do. But I've got some sort of like fresh new questions for you based on the back of kind of things that have developed for you and just life and land and everything that you're doing. So Okay. delve in, let's begin with people who haven't listened to your podcast episode yet, which I highly recommend that you go and do and then listen to this one. Could you please do a brief introduction to yourself? Just introduce yourself, tell people what you do within the property world, who you are as a person, and some cool things that you're up to at the moment. Okie dokie, god, where do I start? So my name is Ella Hardy, I'm a land and planning uplift specialist. I have always been in properties since I was 17 years old, straight from college. And yeah, I specialize in land and planning uplift. So identifying off-market land opportunities, gaining planning permission and selling them on to developers. I've been doing that with my partner for the past 10 years. And yeah, so not only am I a land of planning uplift specialist, I'm a mentor, I'm an investor to all of my students. I am a mum of two little monkeys, which is half term at the moment. So yeah, definitely little monkeys this week. And yeah, I'm a partner of over 10 years. And yeah. So it's all of a bit of a juggle at the moment. I'm currently renovating my own dream home, which is exhausting, but yet rewarding. I've got my own personal fitness journey going on at the moment of running, personal goals and raising money for a charity that I advocate for with my mum. of which I'm training for a half marathon. I finished a 10k yesterday in under an hour, so I'm really impressed with that. So yeah, it's a bit about me. Lots of different arms. I absolutely love that. And I love the fact that I feel like you just say that in such a casual way. Like as you're speaking, you're like, yeah, so I do this and I do this and I do this. And it's so casual. Whereas it's incredible all the things that you do, you know, rather than just like listing them off. It's like, no, take a moment to appreciate each of the amazing things that you are and that you do. There are so many sort of facets to it. So first of all, the one thing I want to say is that let's just go for the land bit first. and we'll discuss that because I came to your awards night recently in January this year and do you know the one thing I found Ella was like your community and your group of people are so special, they really are because they're so inclusive of everyone and they're just so amazing and also can I just say when you see these awards going on screen and it's like biggest deal ever made and what was it like seven million something ridiculous Oh okay, but still £750,000! I added an extra zero. There's nothing wrong with that. overall now we've got just nearly £11 million of profit within the community from agreed deals that these are sites going through, legals or going through planning. We've got seven sites that are currently going through planning at the moment through the community that I've invested in. So we've got so much going on within the land department. And yeah, my students are incredible. I definitely felt really loved that night. really really loved and loved the awards night and that is the first of many because it was just such a success and I loved celebrating them because they have you know put in the work you know it's all great yes you know anybody can be taught something but actually being taken that information and succeeding with that information is brilliant and it really deserves a massive shout out so yeah it was a big celebration for last year I had a lot of successful students and yeah for £700,000 plus from one deal when they've been on the program for 12 months is pretty incredible. yeah, something big to shout out about yeah. Absolutely. Okay, so let's just let's just take that for a moment and take a breath with that because people are gonna be listening to this podcast going sorry, hold on seven hundred thousand pounds for Profit for something that they've learned over 12 months. Hmm. Okay I think I want to know more about that and to be honest you and I like, you know land was never in my my remit It just wasn't in my remit until I learned more and more it and I obviously talked to you and I talked to others who were doing it and I'm like okay hmm this sounds interesting and funny enough I was literally driving through Dorset over the weekend and I was looking at land in a way I hadn't looked at land and I was like that looks agriculture so no we couldn't do that and that's probably owned by someone I wonder who owns that and my brain started doing things that it's actually never done before in the most weirdest way so let's do this so for somebody who has no idea what we're talking about in terms of planning up lift and land and how you acquire it and then sort of go through it. Could you just sort of explain what this person did or what you usually do in order to go through the transition of making like £750,000 profit? How can it be done? I mean, I can give you like two examples. So how are you started off? How me and Phil started off, sorry, because I am one half of the team. So we started by, I learned how to identify off-market land opportunities. You do this using different softwares out there like Nimbus, Searchland, you can just use an OS ordinance survey map and your planning policy maps. So you look at an area and you work out what could be turned into a development or what type of land is agricultural or greenbelt. So then you identify the right opportunities. You do a letter send, you send a load of letters. We aim for around about 50 per week. And then you start opening up conversations with landowners. So you go out there, you assess the site. And what you do is that you then send these sites over to an architect and planning consultant for them to review more. And they'll come back to you saying, yes, this is a great opportunity. You could fit two units on it or whatever it is. possibility is. And then what you do is you sign into what's called an option agreement with the landowner. Now, an option agreement is a legally binding contract, which ties you into the title of the property for an X amount of period of time. For example, what we usually go for is 12 months. And what this means for the landowner is that they don't receive their money until they've got planning. So then that's really safe for us. that we're not spending 200, 300 grand without knowing that it's actually got the chance of gaining planning permission. So it's really safe for us. It means that we technically, you know, own the land as soon as it gets planning. They don't have the option to sell, yet we have the option to purchase. So we don't always have to purchase it and we can make the options assignable to someone else. So this is our exit strategy. So the option agreement is a really important part of the securing planning uplifts part, because that gives us the ability to be able to sell that site on to a third party to make the uplift. And that's how we legally do it. So what we do then is what we started off by doing was that we started off by raising investment. because our first planning application, I think it cost us around about 30,000 pound all in. So we had to raise that investment for legal, for planning consultants fees, the architects fees, for any reports that need to be done for the site. And then, you you put that investment in, you you pay for the planning, it takes 12 months maximum. Usually we'd like to see it complete anywhere between six to eight months, but should take around about 12. And then, you sell the site on for a higher price than what you agreed it for because land is worth more once it's got planning permission. So you sell it on for the higher price and you make the profit in between. But what I now do for my students is I take on that role of investor so that they don't have to go out and find the investment themselves. They have the guaranteed investment with me. I also provide them the power team of planning consultants, architects, solicitors, accountants, so that they don't have to pay the additional fees because the problem that you have is if you don't know about this strategy, you can get a large amount of fees ended up you having to pay for them just by initial site assessments. You know, every time you go out to a viewer site and you send it over to the planning consultants and architects. they're gonna charge you a thousand pound just to review it and they might come back and say that it's not gonna work and there you go, you've wasted that money. So what I do is I have a power team for them to completely tap into as well as myself and my team, like my internal team. They also have all of the architects, planning consultants, legal teams for them to tap into and they don't have to pay a fee for it. So that means that, you know, I'm... putting such a safety blanket around their journey so they're not spending ridiculous amount of money or risking amounts of money because land is a complicated process and if anybody's gonna tell you it's a simple, simple, know, strategy, it's not, you know. There are so many things that can go wrong with it and therefore you will be risking your own capital. So that's why with my... years of experience with land buying and my team's years of experience, we kind of mitigate that risk for all of our students. Yeah, I love that. Oh, I've got so many questions, so many questions. Okay, my first question to you is you said that when you first started, needed to gain investment for the £30,000 to do this. Now you hadn't done it before, you didn't really have any proof or maybe you had proof in other ways. So how did you go about, first of all, getting that initial £30,000? Who did it come from? How did you go about approaching it? What experience did you have to show for it, really? So a bit of a back story if nobody knows actually anything about me. Me and my partner have not come from any money. My partner grew up as one of nine children living on the worst estates in Basingstoke, probably. He does not come from any money whatsoever. He has been an entrepreneur throughout his life. He has worked really, really hard. He got into property, he owned restaurants. He's come from absolutely... nothing and he's really really incredible for the drive that he has. I particularly don't come from money as such. I had a really you know comfortable upbringing. My mum and dad you know it was comfortable. I've had nothing you know never got given deposit from my first home or I got gifted a bit of money for my first car but nothing like it's substantial you know. Had a good couple of holidays a year so we don't come from money. My first home was a council house that I've owned myself so We didn't really come from any money. So we had to go out and we had to raise that investment from friends, families, businesses that we knew and Phil done that. Phil went out and said, look, my girlfriend is incredible. She knows all of this about land. We're going to do it ourselves. And he went out there and you know, that's why I said thank you to him for believing in me and raising that money at the awards night because he went out there and said, look, my girlfriend, she knows her stuff, right? And we're gonna, you know, we're gonna do these land deals and I promise you, you're gonna get your return back. And he went out there and he grafted and he raised all of this investment for me and for us. And that's how we started really, because we didn't have any money. I worked as a land buyer for years before this, but I was working for companies and I just got a commission and a really poor basis. So it's not like I was paid well for being a land buyer either. I wasn't. So I just could see how much money it would bring. I mean, I was working for a company that they drove Ferraris and I drove an Audi A1 living in a council house. So like it was like, you know, something wasn't adding up here. And I was like, hey, doesn't I could do this myself because I can see that they live in a seven bedroom house driving a Ferrari. Who said that I can't do that? So that's kind of really where the drive came from, seeing what I could turn it into. And I learned everything. I was their only employee, so I soaked it all up. I worked six days a week. I drove, I left at six o'clock in the morning, didn't get back till seven o'clock at night, six days a week. I commuted for two hours a day to get to this job, and I soaked up everything that I possibly could for those number of years. Knowing that this was a great opportunity for me to learn and then yeah, we went out and and done it so yeah, it Definitely wasn't bored into it given it I had to really work work for it and it's not only since people have been like you need to tell your story more because I was a bit like a little bit embarrassed about it to begin with but it's not until people were like no you need to tell people where you've come from you need to tell people, you know how much you had to work for this, you know? Because it a little bit embarrassing at first, but yeah, we were broke. We were really broke. I found some videos the other day of me and Phil. No, actually, well, Phil has asked me for is the Transit van again. And I'm like, no, I hate the Transit van because we sold our cars. We sold the LDA1, we had a matching LDA5, we sold them, and we bought a Transit van. And I hated the Transit van. I was like, like this. all the time every time we drove but we sold everything and just dedicated to land but we had the rustiest old transit van for a good few years whilst we tried to get this thing off the ground literally yeah find it so interesting, like, again, as a woman, the fact that you're saying, oh, I was really embarrassed by it and thinking about this, you know, there are different types of people in this world, people who sort of saw what you saw in terms of them in their seven bedroom houses with their Ferraris and almost thinking actually that's okay, I'm an employee, this is how the world works. And you're like, actually, no, this isn't how the world works. I know what I know and I can go on to do it. And do you think that... If you were to look back at the girl that you were all those years ago, do you think that if you were to say, is where you, not that you would end up to still got a long way to go Ella, both of us, but this is where the journey would be at this moment in time. What do you think like she would almost say? Do you know what I think about this all the time? There's a part of me that is like, you know, me and Phil look at each other and we're like, wow, you know, we've done it, know, bar and out dream home was a big one for us. We kind of sat in there for a good hour and had a few tears and that, but I do think she would believe it because I always believed that I was better. I always had the drive. I always got up. I always pushed on. So do I believe it? Yeah, I think she'd believe it. Yeah, of course she would be there because I never gave up. I kept pushing, I kept pushing. And we kept, we both never gave up. You me and Phil, we don't. But yeah, sometimes it is a bit of a pinch me moment sometimes. And I have to do remind myself sometimes of how far we've got. And I think, you know, when I am putting myself down that I'm not where I want to be, have to go, Ella, shut up. You've come so far. Shut up, Ella. You know, be grateful for what you have, be grateful for the time that you get to spend with your loved ones and the time that, you know, the money that we've made. But yes, I do believe she would have been like, yeah, of course I was always going to get there. I do believe that she would have been like, yeah, because I just always believed in myself, always. Even at school, I wasn't the best kid. I wasn't the best kid at school either. I was quite naughty and I didn't survive one. senior school. I had multiple. But my mum always believed in me too. They said that I was never going to get anywhere, I was too naughty, I wouldn't listen, I was too rebellious. But my mum believed in me. And I believed in myself too. was like, yeah right, believe me I will. But yeah, I think that self-belief, you know, we always have the self-doubt. Everybody does. We'd be lying if we didn't doubt ourselves that, you know, I doubt myself a lot when you've got a lot of plates going on about being a mum and forgetting this or being a rubbish partner that week or being a rubbish businesswoman that week. Yeah, we always have self doubt but the core thing is to remember what your goal is and to keep pushing on. Some days that's not going to be achievable and it's okay to have a bad day and to go, do you know what, today I'm not working on my goals, I'm working on me, I'm working on my survival. Because some days it's like, I'm going to turn my phone off and I don't want to talk to anyone. I'm going to sit here, eat chocolate and I'm going to watch the telly all day. Because, you know, it's okay to have those days, but the goal is still there and you still keep pushing. And not to, not to give up. You know, I say that to my students lot because of the rejection that we get through land-owners. We get that quite a bit. You know, land-owners saying no, you know, but you have to keep pushing on. Okay, yes, you've got a rejection. Let's cry about it one day, but the day after, let's go get up and go again. let's get up and go again. And that's kind of why I believe in myself too and tell myself. that Ella, I really do and you know what, one of the things that you, one of the awards that you gave at your awards night was for the most persistent student as well, which went to Elliot and it's this notion of, like let's face it, right, let's just talk about rejection just for a second. People get rejected all the time in property. If you're doing a rent to rent, you get rejected. If you go and offer a really ridiculous global offer. on a property or get rejected. Rejection is just part of it. I think rejection is part of anything. Rejection is part of dating. Rejection is part getting a new job. Rejection is part of life. It really is. And so I love the fact that you recognised Elliot as being the most persistent shooting because if we just reflect on that, how many no's and how many rejections did he actually get before he got his yes? bless him, a lot. I would say he got to the point of really good offers, really great conversations, like it sounded like they were gonna go for it. And then they were like, it was like, well you got one that was an illness and unfortunately it wasn't very well, you can't help. And one that just decided no, one that decided they were gonna move away and sell the house and didn't wanna sell the house and land separately. He just kept getting them, but he got to the point of that they sounded like they were gonna go for it. And then last minute was no and I just kept feeling for a minute and I said don't worry Elliot keep pushing on, go again, send another load of letters. Have you chased this lead up from you know four weeks ago and he just kept going with it. And then yeah last year he was presented the Student of the Year award this year. He's got the most sites agreed. So yeah he absolutely smashed it. I think he's got the most sites agreed now because actually the awards night it was Jason but now he's he's overtaken so he's You know, he's definitely someone to look at to say he is still in his his full-time job, too He's got a young child a girlfriend if I think the fiance girlfriend and And yeah, he's still in a corporate job Working his nine to five he does this on the side and he stayed persistent with it and he's now extremely successful and I would hope that this year, maybe early next, he will do it full time. Once his sights are currently in planning at the moment, so they'll come off this year. So I hope, end of this year, he can walk away from his employment. That would be absolutely incredible for him. And do you know what? I get so many messages. I'm sure you do as well from people who say, look, it might not be land because obviously people have come to me for that and they'd come to you for that. But let's just say it was rent to rent. Let's just say it was deal sourcing. Let's just say it was anything else. And they'd say, Afino, I've been doing this. I've been doing, I've been sending my letters. I've been going, I've been going. And I keep getting rejected again and again. And then like, just don't think I've got it in me. I don't think I can keep going. And it really is just having that person there, like an accountability partner, as I've always said, like you are to Elliot, to say, go again, send it again, go again. And I keep saying to people, you know, I always use this meme or analogy of the person that's digging for gold, they're just about to reach it and then they walk away. Like, oh God, I can't tell you how many rejections I got from letters, calls, agents, viewings, when I was starting out doing my rent to rent business. that like so many rejections for them one person to say yes and then the next person to say yes and then it just snowballed from there. So rejection's massive, isn't it, that we've just got to try and get through, don't we? It is. And do you know one thing that I had to learn is that this may feel personal because we're putting our all into it, right? But it's not personal, it's business. They're not personally rejecting Ella or Athena or whoever's listening. They're rejecting the business idea. And we have to kind of detach ourselves from that, even though it still feels so personal to us because we want it so bad. and it hurts our personal feelings, but it's not rejection to us. So we have to detach ourselves from that rejection of a person. It's just the rejection of the business idea. And you will find someone else. They're not rejecting you. It's the rejection of the business. And I have had to explain that quite a few times. And I would say training men to women. I'd actually say, men are actually worse at taking rejection at the moment than women. and I have to talk about it quite a lot. Yeah, the egos of the men seem to be hitting worse than the females. I think sometimes a female can detach from that, but men seem to struggle with it a bit, and I'm finding, I'm having this conversation quite a bit, but you know, detaching from it and just remembering, they're not, you know, rejecting you personally. I'm sure they thought that you were lovely, but the decision or the business decision, or the proposition that you're offering just wasn't the right one for them. And that's okay, because it's gonna be the right one for someone else. You've just got to find them. And that's what you've got to get into. I love that. And like I said, persistence is massive in this game with anything. Whatever strategy you do, you have to have persistence. And I always say, you got to really want it as well. Like somebody like Elliot, let's just take him as an example, going, or even somebody like me, for example, like, you know, at the beginning, when there is so much rejection and you've got a full-time job like I did at the beginning, like Elliot has, you know, there is only so much energy and so much time that you can offer in a day. Yeah. if you constantly get rejected, nine times out of ten you're gonna go, do you know what? Screw it, I don't wanna do it. Never did wanna do it, it's easier to stop, it's easier to fail, it's easier not to go ahead. You've got to have something in you, a genuine love, passion and belief in yourself that will take you forward. Because nothing else will at that point. You've got nothing else apart from passion and desire and a knowing in you that you can make this happen. And you've got to hold on for that for dear life. And if you don't have that, then you'll just go to the sideways and be like, actually, I knew it was going to work. I proved it didn't work. And salivary, I'll be employed for the rest of my life. And I think people can take very different paths and different roads in that belief system, can't they? I also do like you think about it about opportunities that you want to go for too. Sometimes you send a message to someone and they don't respond to you and then you think, oh, you know what, I'm just going to leave it then. They're clearly wasn't interested, but you can always follow up with a, Hey, just like it might not have been the right time for them. I mean, if I think about it, I think I emailed you, I think I messaged to get on the girls in property podcast. I think I sent a couple and was like, Hey, I really love your podcast. Let me jump on it. And that's when we first met because I was like, I think I messaged, I emailed because you know, sometimes I get it all the time and I look at my phone and I think, damn it, I haven't gone back to that person. I really did want to go back to them. But I just got busy. And it's the same with Lando's. What I say to students is that they just because they haven't responded to your letter does not mean they're not interested. It just wasn't the right time that they received your letter. They've probably put it on the kitchen side or accidentally put it in the bin or something like that. Send a follow-up. So then they get more responses from the follow-ups and they were like, yes, I wanted to respond to your letter, but I just didn't get around to it. So I just think that's another big key to life is just not, not stopping at that first hurdle. You know, you, you know, don't always give up to begin with, you know, you've always got to do those follow-ups, those check-ins, those in any part of life. If you're listening to this and you're doing rent to rent, or you need to speak to a state agent, they haven't returned your call, give them another go, give them another try. You might catch them at the right time. that's, I think, that is in the whole of life, it is timing sometimes, and it is just making sure that you're putting yourself there at the right time. If you're not putting yourself there, you're not gonna get that opportunity. So don't forget that as well, just put yourself. There, get yourself out there. If you're not getting yourself out there, you're not going to be at the right time, for sure. That's what I try and tell the students. Do know what makes me laugh now? Now I'm trying to contact you being like, Ella, hello. Hello, it's me. No, I'll be honest with you, I don't. I'm gonna, do you know what? I'm gonna look through them. I'm genuinely gonna look through them after this call and be like, oh, there she is. And then I'm gonna look at all my messages to you. Yeah. Look back through them. Look at my first couple of ones and my emails. I emailed and I sent a DM. I'm gonna do that I'm literally gonna be like my god, be like there she is, I love that. And do you know what? I know, I know and now I've even got you back for another time. Not only did I say do you know what, come on the first time, I loved it so much that I was like right we gotta get you back on girl and you're come and speak at my event. Like that's just how it works. What was I gonna say? that's what I was gonna say to you. Now, usually I do this a lot earlier within the podcast as many listeners will know and they're probably wondering, Athena, where the hell has it gone? But because I've just loved our conversation, it's just flowed, I've sort of just left it for a little bit, which is I still want to know though, Ella, what is it that you're celebrating at this moment in time? Oh my god, what am I not celebrating? I think today I'm celebrating that I smashed my goal of my 10k yesterday. Massive personal goal for me. I did my last run in last May, nine months ago I ran 10k in one hour and nine minutes. I've just did yesterday 59 minutes, that's 10 minutes off of my time just from training, dedication, just a little personal goal, just for me, just for me, that includes nobody else. And I love running to put my headphones on and just, ha. And I love that. I've smashed a personal goal, which I'm very happy about. And then obviously my family home. We move in this weekend. So probably by the time that this goes out, I will be in my family home. So I'm very excited about that, because yeah, it's a dream. that it's a funny when you think about it the things that we actually end up celebrating when let's face it Ella like you're a very successful person right you are you are there is no question you're a very successful person who has done amazing things for yourself yet the things that you're celebrating are things for you such as the fact that you shed off which is incredible by the way 10 minutes off of your run and also the fact that you're moving into your family home like these are things that it's almost like these are things that money can't buy You know, okay, have to, okay, money can buy you the house, but you know what I mean? It's the feeling. It's the feeling of, of, of what you're celebrating. I understand what it is you're trying to say. And I think that that's what I'm learning as time goes on. Like this notion of what actually defines success? What does success look like for so many people? And that's what I love to have conversations about with successful people like yourself. It's like, Yes, I could go out and buy this handbag and yes, I can go out and buy these shoes and yes, I can go and buy whatever the hell I want to buy. But actually, that's not what's going to make me happy. a 10K in 10 minutes shorter than I have done before, that's an achievement for me. That's something I set out to achieve and I've done it. And that's actually what makes me happy. I don't have to spend money to do that, but that's what I'm celebrating today. And I just find that concept quite interesting. I'm going to whatever shop you want, brilliant. But I always think the beauty in it is that actually that's just material things. I always try and tell myself actually no I got to spend that time with my children or I got to spend, I got to make the memories with my other half of my children and I get to be around. I try and take the material out of it because yeah. It's just material things. You've got to look at the things that actually generally make your soul happy. Because yes, it will make you happy to go to Louis Vuitton and buy a new handbag. Don't get me wrong, it makes me happy. For ten minutes. And then, you know, it's kind of over with. But you need to look at the things that will make your soul happy. And make you happy for the day or the week. Not just going into a shop and buying something, because that doesn't last long. But thank you for making me realise that I am happy with my goals. I'm so happy with my 10k. I've got my half marathon in May which I am going to be raising money this time for a charity. I did the 10k for fun. However, I'm 18th May, Windsor half marathon. Anyone listening that's nearby, come cheer me on. Have a lucky day out in Windsor. Come cheer me on because I'm really running it for the U Trust charity and I'll start raising money very soon for that. It's an incredible cause, but yeah, very excited about that too. Another bit gold. And we should just, we should mention that Ella, we really should because it's so important. So I obviously met your mum Jane at the Girls and Property Gala where you brought her along and you said to me, you're like, Athena, you need to meet my mum. And obviously you've met my mum many times. So yeah, we love our mums. And you were like, my mum has got the most amazing charity, which is the U Trust, know, the hundreds and thousands campaign as it were. And well, you can explain obviously. better than I can at what your mum is trying to achieve. But that is what you're running for. And I think it's such an incredible cause. And I think particularly for girls in property and women, it is so aligned in the way that we come together, which is why I wanted to support the charity and I wanted to shout about it. So I'd like to shout about it again. So can you just say what your mum Jane's charity is, please? So yeah, my mum works for the U Trust in Paragon. She is one of the regional directors there. Sorry mum, I forgot that wrong. I believe she's one of the regional directors there. And they've got a campaign at the moment which they are trying to raise £500,000 to be able to purchase their own safe houses. See, they would like to purchase their own because it's very difficult for them to be able to... get the safe housing through the council or by private landlords as well. So it's very difficult for them to be able to do that. it becomes, they get a lot of restrictions, i.e. you're not allowed any male children under the, over the age of a certain age. If you're a woman with a young boy, you may not be able to get to a safe house, to be able to escape an abusive relationship. So that's what they're raising money for. to be able to home vulnerable victims of domestic abuse. We've done a few campaigns. I've been at the Girls in Property. I've done my charity awards night. My sister, who's recently been employed by Land Profits as the head of accounts and investments. We're going to be doing a few charity bits. She has put out there, she might jump out of an aeroplane, which would be so fun to watch. But I definitely won't be. I'll stick to the running. But yeah, we're going to be doing a few bits this year. If you don't already follow me, it'll be on my land profits page and any support will be going solely to the charity and hoping that by 2027 that they will raise enough money to be able to purchase their own safe home for children of all ages. that would be incredible, that would be absolutely incredible, definitely. And I think what I'm therefore celebrating is something along the lines of that actually, which is I now am in a position, I feel like I'm in a position with girls and property, which is weird, and I'm gonna be talking about imposter syndrome in a different podcast going forward, because imposter syndrome is absolutely rife at the moment for me, with the types of conversations that I'm having, like... Ella, like I feel like something is happening and I feel like, I don't know, it's weird to explain, like the level up is happening and therefore the imposter syndrome is like huge for me. And I, but I do feel what I am proud of and I am going to celebrate is this notion that I am giving people like a voice and you know, whenever I now speak to people and I'm like, can we come and do this? Or would you like to come and do this? It's an instant. Yes. It's like, tell me when and where I'm there. Like, Tell me what you need, tell me this. And I'm like, wow, okay, this is happening, this is real. And I'm like, my God, now people wanna come and like, people are inviting me to come and speak. And they're like, will you come and speak? And I'm like, yeah, okay, sure, why not? Yeah, okay. Yeah, and it's really weird. I've had it, I've had it, everybody gets it. When you level up and you're in a place where you think, god, I think I know what I'm doing, you know, I've had that recently with employing, you know, I've employed like three members of staff in the last month and people keep coming to me and I think I've never been a boss before but okay, you know. Well you'll get it, everybody gets it all different levels. So that's really interesting to hear that you're going through it at the moment. Yeah, I mean this girl, so I did like a little story about this, but just say on the podcast, if anyone doesn't watch me on Instagram. So I did a talk recently at PPN Stratford for Motul Islam, and this woman, Jenny Mitchell, who I hope is listening to this podcast, hey Jenny, she came up to me at the end of my talk and she was like, Athena, I've driven two hours to come and meet you and come and hear you speak. And I was like, why? Why would you do that? And she was like, because I... like that! You're amazing! That's my truth, I was like, why would you do that? And she was like, because I see you all the time and I really wanted to meet you and I'm so glad that I now have. And we had such an amazing conversation. She's gonna come to the retreat and like, I don't know. There was a bit of me in there going, well, why would you do that? And it's really played on my mind to think, well, hold on. I'm a huge champion, as you know, Ella, for other women. I'm massive in it and I'm like, no. Know your truth, stand up there, be proud. But it's so hard to do it for ourselves, isn't it? Isn't it? It's just so, it's so hard. Yeah, I I still remember it now like when people have said that to me and the part of me it like dies inside and I think why like I said it to my sister once my sister was like Someone paid to speak to you. Obviously she's my sister. She's done it for you her whole life. But yeah, it's it's the surreal feeling of it. Like, you know, from going from, I don't know, not having a following to having a following and people want to listen to you. Sometimes it is a bit of a, wow, and then you have to trust yourself. You're like, no, I know what I'm talking about. I'm good at what I do. And you have to have that self belief and say, yeah. I'm confident on what I'm talking about. know what I'm talking about. I know my shh and I'm going to be proud and loud about it. you know, welcome the following. Welcome to sport. And you know, I think it's well deserved for you as well, Athena. You're incredible. You really are. The way that you represent us all and give us all a platform is, you know, incredible. It really is. So you should be very proud of yourself. thank you. Thank you, Ella. I tell you what I haven't had yet though that you had, didn't you, like, the other month or something? You had a trending reel that hit, like, over a million... a million views! What was that about? yeah, I heard it was about my story to be honest. Yeah, 1.5 million views we got on a reel on Instagram, which yeah, it was incredible. But again, you get loads of like negative, that's amazing. I got so much love for it and amazing support. But at the same time on the backend, you get all the trolls and I've never really had to deal with trolls. And I am quite thick skinned. I am who I am. And you can try and say I'm not, but I am who I am. So I'm quite, you know, thick skin with it. But again, that's just another part of it is that you do get the people that doubt you and you've got to have the blinkers on. Those blinkers on, you know yourself, you trust yourself, you know who you are. And you got to the blinkers on to people, the negative comments that try and put you down and take you back because yeah, that's an incredible thing. I've worked really hard with my social media and we went viral over New Year's, which was... great just when I wanted to take three days off. was so like I was like I'm turning my we went away and I was like I'm turning my phone off it's me the kids and Phil and I'm just I'm not even gonna pick up the phone then and I was like I'm going viral that's why I'm on my phone constantly but it was incredible and there's so much love and support but I think that's another thing that you've got there's always pros and cons because I have never had troubles as much as I've had before you know trying it tell you you're not who you are and you're this and you're selling something and da da da and it was just like yeah. to recognise that as well. Yeah, definitely. And if we therefore... You do, you do. And I think that comes with the territory, I really do. I think if you're ever going to be in the public eye and, you know, position yourself out there, you know, you almost have to open yourself up to scrutiny as well. It's literally part of the package, which hopefully makes us stronger in the way that we feel about things and obviously have the right support around us. Just thinking about that then, Ella, just to kind of... Because the thing is, is that everyone's gonna hopefully get... Well, no, not hopefully. Everyone is going to meet you at the Girls and Property Retreat in April because... You are speaking. You are speaking! I am speaking and I've got such a fun interactive presentation that I'm going to be sharing with with all of your lovely girlies that they can actually go away and use actionable steps to be even just trial out the land world, you know, it's really great. Presentation I've got and I can't wait to share it with all your girlies It'll be great fun and the retreat last year was so much fun and I didn't stay but this year I'm staying I'm staying again. I think last time the Christmas pie if I'm much worse for wear the next day, however But this time I probably won't drink as much because I'm talking But the Christmas one was fun because I could just come have some fun. But yeah It's going to be great and I can't wait to share so much value with the community on the day. I love that. absolutely love that. I, they were going to be, well, there's gonna be a total of four actual, four guest speakers, but three sort of mainline speakers, if you like. I haven't announced all three yet. They are being announced over the course of the next sort of couple of weeks, but you are the first sort of guest that I've got back on the podcast who is going to be speaking and then I'm actually going to be bringing the other girls back on, and hearing from them that, yeah, but it's going to be, it's going be brilliant. I love the fact that, Yeah, but I love the fact we're going to talk about different strategies, different techniques, so that anyone who's sitting in that room can be like, okay, what is it that I would like to learn about? Okay, let's learn something new. Like, for example, I remember the first time I ever saw you and learned about land wasn't even in my remit, like literally wasn't even thinking about it. But after I heard you speak, I was like, oh, I better pay attention to her. I better pay attention to that strategy. Like that's an idea. And so that's what I'm really hoping to do for all the women in the room is to open their eyes to think maybe there is more than what I initially thought and maybe there is scope to think differently. And that's really what I want to get out of it. And also quite frankly, you to be there inspiring people because all of the speakers I've got are inspirational in their own way. And I really hope to inspire people to think that they can do it too. Maybe they're in a similar position to you a couple of years before and they think, well, if Ella can do it, I can do it. And that's really what I hope to gain for them. Yeah, I've got some great, you know, just even from my students, you know, I've done this for a long time, but I've got some great inspiring students. So I'd be more than happy to share their amazing journeys in their land journeys because they haven't come from a land background. So anybody can can do it. You just, yeah, got to put your mind to it, I suppose. Like everything. do, yeah. Like everything. So my final question to you is this, and then we're gonna almost go do like a part three of the retreat. So my final question is just to help listeners if they are interested in land. So obviously it sounds wonderful. It sounds like the dream. It sounds like something that everyone would want to get involved in. However, if you were from your experience with yourself, your students and everything, to be like, before you begin thinking about land or if you're gonna think about land, These are also some of the caveats you should think about. These are some of the things that could go wrong. These are some of the things that have happened. Let's just have a bit of a reality check at the moment for the listeners, Alice, so that we don't go too crazy. What are things that they should be also aware of with this? I mean the biggest thing I think I've touched on it is just the you know the risk of investment into your own capital. That's why we raised investment. It's a high you know we're talking 30, 40, 50 thousand pound that you are potentially risking because not every planning application is guaranteed that it's going to get planning. So you need to know kind of what you're doing, planning policies and make sure that you are you know you have a level of understanding. or the right team behind you because it is a risky strategy. Lots can go wrong. We're talking drainage, we're talking covenants, we're talking, you know, over going your option agreement time. All of these things that can go wrong and a long list of other things don't get me wrong. It's not an easy strategy and it is an expensive strategy to get into. It's not one of the low cost like, you know rent-to-rent or service accommodations. It's high cost It's high investment and for you to start off with and there are so many things that can go wrong So it is definitely one that you need a really great investor That is it knows the risks and then you need a great planning team behind you to kind of help you out with your applications Because yeah, it can go wrong Yeah, exactly. I love that. And I think it's so important to to mention that to say, yes, it's a great strategy. Yes, you can achieve so much. But actually, let's just take a step back with the reality that it is high risk, but it's high reward at the same time, like most things are in life. You just got to have the right as I always say, power team behind you. So, Ella, like so many people are going to once again be getting in contact with you from the Girls and Property podcast. So if people want to kind of follow you, get in touch with you, if they're not coming to the retreat for example but they definitely want to learn more about land, how can they find you? So I am at land profits on Instagram. You can drop me an email. My direct email is I oversee the info at land hyphen profits dot co dot UK. Or you can speak to my PA and coordinator coordinator. I that in an American accent and coordinator Georgina who is Georgina at land hyphen profits dot co dot UK. Yeah, so that's if you want to send me a direct message or yeah, give me a follow on Instagram Facebook I'm just Ella Hardy. So yeah Reach out come support come look at the content Definitely. Georgina is so wonderful as well. She's such a lovely, lovely person. yeah, definitely. got a good one there. without her. To be honest, I've got an amazing team. I've gone from being on my, well, from me and Phil to a team of seven people. I've managed seven people, which is wild for me. Like something that I really had to get my mind over, that I've just gone from me and Phil to actually managing seven members of staff, which is wild for me, but she is incredible. And so all the rest of my team. Yay. And for those then who obviously are coming to the Girls and Property Retreat, I can't wait for them to meet you because the thing about you, Ella, that I love the most is you're so humble. You're so, I mean this in the most beautiful way I can say it to you. You're so normal. Do you know what I mean when I say that? like you're just a normal human being. And what I can't wait is for people to be like, oh, so I don't have to be this crazy, over the top, loud, garish person. I can just be a normal person. I can be successful. I can learn some amazing strategies, I can be inspired. And for all the women who are coming to the retreat, I can't wait for them to meet you. They are in for such a treat. And for those who haven't bought their ticket yet to the retreat, I have no idea how many tickets are gonna be left by the time this goes out. At the moment, two weeks prior to when this goes out, there were 25 tickets left only. when this episode comes out, I'm like, there might be a few, I don't know. And obviously I can't... Yeah, and I can't increase the numbers because of the venue capacity of the space. So I'm hoping that it's just going to be a room full of just which it will be. It's, you know, just like it has been for the last two times I've done the retreat, like just a room full of inspiring, incredible women all learning from each other, doing business and really championing one another. So if you haven't got your ticket yet, Ella will be there as as well I be and some other amazing speakers. So make sure that you grab your ticket. either grab it from the bio or by going to www.girlsinproperty.co.uk, click on events and it's in there, or just send me the word retreat and I will send you the link. as always, I am Athena Dobson, underscore official, girls in property on Instagram, send me an email like Ella did once upon a time, and a message. And yeah, like I just can't wait. I love this podcast. I loved our conversation today, Ella, and just can't wait to see you in April. Very excited. can't wait to see you in April either. We'll be counting down the sleeps until a good night's sleep and a night of fun with you and connecting with all of the community. I must say, you know, I've been there, you know, twice every retreat you've done and I've always taken something away from the retreat. I've always built a relationship, a business relationship at the retreat so you will get something from the day, don't you worry. So make sure you grab that ticket for sure. Oh, thanks girl, appreciate that. And massive, massive congratulations and hope your new home this weekend is beautiful for you. And I can't wait to see all the photos, but everyone have an amazing Monday, wherever you're listening from, enjoy it, send me a message, always keep in contact, look after yourselves and I will see you next week. Thanks guys, bye.