Imposter Syndrome Unfiltered: Authenticity, Mindset & Owning Your Worth with Akhtar Khan

You asked for it and here it is! Let’s talk about imposter syndrome. 

In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson and Akhtar Khan dive into the world of imposter syndrome, and how it shows up in both our personal and professional lives. They chat about the power of mindset, strategy, and emotional intelligence in beating those internal roadblocks and achieving success. Akhtar opens up about his journey from a tough childhood to becoming a successful property investor and business psychologist, sharing why self-discovery and having the right support system are key to navigating the ups and downs of life and business.

The conversation shifts to authenticity, with Akhtar and Athena discussing how tricky it can be to maintain a polished facade while juggling the messy realities of life and business and how much to share of the imperfections both offline and online. They talk about those mental barriers that hold us back from seizing opportunities and why being part of a supportive community can make all the difference and how embracing vulnerability and forming genuine connections are powerful ways to crush imposter syndrome.

The conversation then turns to childhood experiences and how these shape our adult self-esteem and emotional health. They touch on the importance of validation, the healing journey, and how embracing authenticity can help break the cycle of limiting beliefs that get passed down through generations. With personal stories, real talk and a few tears, I hope this will encourage you all to embrace your worth and either build or join strong, supportive communities to lift you up! 

Message me at @athenadobson_official to share your own stories.  

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Transcript

0:02

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So here we go guys, you asked for it and today we are going to be doing a really hot, juicy topic all about imposter syndrome. Are we ready? Do we have tea ready? Do we have wine ready? Do we have some gin ready? Let's all get prepared to listen to today's episode because Do know what? It's something I've really wanted to talk to about for so long and I'm so glad actually that I'm not doing this as a solo episode, which was the original intention. I wanted to get the right person on to talk to me about this, to bounce ideas off and to really help me and you as a listener to understand why and how we feel about imposter syndrome. Because let's face it, we all have it. So without further ado, sit tight and I'd love today to introduce Akhtar Khan. Hey Akhtar! Hey, Athena, thanks for having me on. I'm super stoked about what we're talk about today. So yeah, let's dive into this. I love it. And you know what, what's fantastic about this podcast is we have different types of episodes. have episodes that are really educational in regards to property, where I get some really incredible people who have done some amazing developments and flips and all sorts. And actually we should actually mention the fact that that is also you. You have been a property investor. You have done many developments yourself and been in the property world for some time. So that's the first thing I'd like to say just for reference so that you understand kind of. also how the listeners feel within, that sort of remit and sector. But also I think what's important is to have these conversations where we are more than just property investors. We are more than business owners. are human beings at the end of the day. And with that naturally comes a lot of imposter syndrome. So can you first introduce yourself and tell everybody why I thought you were the perfect person to get on this podcast? Thank you. So yes, guys, my name is Aqt Al Khan. I'm based between London, Marbella and Morocco and Monaco. I bounce around a little bit. I've been in property for 32 years. I've done pretty much most of the strategies out there, own letting agencies and state agencies. I think we did about 216 deals under my belt. So I had a long track record of property, but also what many people in the property space didn't know was that my real expertise and passion was psychology. I'm a business psychologist. I've also for the last seven, eight years been in the mergers and acquisition space, which is I went from buying, selling, flipping properties to buying, selling, flipping businesses. So that's what I do now. I'm semi retired ish. I say semi retired. hit 50 before Christmas and thought I'd retire, but it hasn't quite panned out. I traveled quite a bit, but work wise though things have picked up. So that's my background. That's what I do. So can understand things and see things from three different perspectives, from the business perspective. from the perspective as a property investor or property developer, but also from the psychological aspects of things where we understand, as you mentioned, rightly, yes, we're not just business owners, we're not just property investors, we are human beings. And I think it's fundamentally important that if we do not understand us as human beings, we're always gonna have what we call upper limits in our life, both on a personal level and as a business level, know, we'll have these upper limits that are like invisible glass ceilings and imposter syndrome is one of those. And I don't think it's spoken about enough. I personally believe there's three things that you need to succeed in life, whether it's a business context or personal context. The first thing, and I think this is absolutely fundamental, it's the psychology. You need the right mindset. You need to upgrade your operating system because we'll only ever go as far as our belief system will allow us to. You then need the right strategy. Strategy you can get almost anywhere. You can read a book. The hardest part is execution or implementation of that. So I think if you've got the strategy plus the right psychology, then it's going to be easy for you to execute and implement. But the reason that a lot of people don't do this is because we met with resistance and resistance is the internal stuff that we go and experience on a day-to-day basis, but people don't talk about it enough. And we kind of sweep it under the carpet. Imposter syndrome kicks in. Shiny penny syndrome kicks in and we bounce around from strategies and no one really talks about this. So I'm glad that we're talking about this because I think people need to hear about this. How we met and how we connected was at a property meet not so long ago. And one of things I have to say, and I'm going to really like, like blow your trumpet here, right? You know, I really, but for your listeners, there are a of people out there that talk strategy, strategy, strategy, strategy. And the thing that I really connected and respected and admired about you is on your model, when you show people what to do, was like the first thing was mindset. like, this woman's got it because if we don't get the mindset put apart, right, people are going to struggle, around in circles. And I can touch a little bit on the strategies, if you like, or the phases of execution that people go through. So that was one of the reasons that we connected. was like, okay, we're on the same wavelength here. And I also think I asked you a really deep question. You mentioned at the talk that someone asked you a question that made you cry. And I was like, wow, what is this? This woman's deep. Like I need to know more. And I asked you the same question. I thought from that point onwards, we're like, you know what? We're just definitely on the same level. More about the humanistic side of stuff as well as the business stuff. I think that's quite rare. Yeah, do know, I love that. And we've spoken about this before, haven't we? Which is I've never considered myself to be a woo woo person as, you know, as people say in terms of spiritual, I've always had more of a kind of a masculine energy about me because of my upbringing and the way that I've had to be. And I've had to be almost a provider and a protector through my upbringing. And actually I recently got into a women's mastermind group, which has been life-changing for me in the way that I didn't realize how many women in that group were spiritual. And in a way we went to LA together and they almost just brought me into the world of spirituality and one of the things I've been learning about which I definitely can get on board with is energy and energy kind of colors of energy and being drawn to certain people and I remember I I can vividly remember it where I only had a bit of time to ask to get a couple of questions from the audiences And you weren't even in my direct eye line. You were to the side. You were literally to the left of me, if you remember. And actually what was hilarious was it was Motles' event and he said to me, right, last question. And actually I actually pointed at you because I thought, I want to know what your question is. I don't know why. There's something about it that I want to know what your question is. And actually the person in front of you thought I was pointing at them. And so therefore asked me their question, which actually was a fantastic question. So I got the opportunity to answer that. But Motul tried to stop me and I was like, no, no, hold on Motul. Sorry. I really want to know what this person's question is. I was like, what is your question? And then you asked me and you're like, what was the thing that made you really like cry? What was the question that got asked? And so I got my opportunity to share it again. I had no idea that you were going to ask me that question. We hadn't met, we hadn't spoken. I didn't know what your background was. And like you said, it was something that like an energy just drew me to you in the way that I don't know, just spiritually, as it were. And so I love that. I love the fact that we can be property professionals and we can talk strategy and we can talk all of that, but we can also talk about deeper, meaningful things. actually, I feel like me and you, rather than just ask each other, so how many properties have you got? How many properties have you got? What's yours? We actually had that night quite a meaningful conversation and an in-depth conversation. And from that, I knew that you were one of the right people I really wanted to get on this podcast. to talk about this subject in particular. So the universe brought us together. Absolutely. And you know, you're absolutely right. You people can have those conversations around what strategies you do, blah, blah. We had an intimate conversation. If you think of the word intimacy, it comes from old English into me, you see. And what that means is there's no BS, there's no ego, there's no facades or mass. Actually, we got very raw and real and heart opened and just like was really real about stuff. And the reason I asked you that question is because I saw in you where I was maybe 15 years ago, like, you know, driven, hungry, building your empire and everything else. And I know back then for me, one of the things that drove me was pain. You know, it was pain. was like unresolved trauma. And it was a lot of that stuff. And I was like, I remember being on a property networking event. I was the main speaker and someone asked me what I did. Why was I doing stuff? And I, the exact same thing happened to me. I welled up and for about two minutes I couldn't talk because I was choked up with emotion because Yeah, absolutely. I did tell you this, but I was choked up with emotion because I was what was driving me in my property business was if you like past training, we'll talk about that. It was trauma as well. So we'll talk about that. I'll give it give people a little bit about my backstory about where that all came from. But I remember being in that place. I just thought this Athena's just like where I was 15 years ago. And I went on a journey. And yes, you know, you can have all the all the success, you can have all the money, you can have all the wealth and all the prosperity. But if you haven't got peace and fulfillment in here, I still think you're a poor person, right? Real wealth and real abundance comes from, in my opinion, having a balanced life and being fulfilled in both your business and in your personal life. So that's why I asked you that question. was like, I want to see what it is. This woman's deeper. What was driving her? And then, you you told me about your story. You told me about your childhood and everything else. And it's very similar to my childhood experiences. And I think, look, why this is important that we go to this level of depth is because You know, I've been a coach mentor for nearly 30 years now, know, business mindset, life coach, I've done almost everything. One of the things that I see consistently in people from all walks of life is the thing that stops them going forwards is the internal resistance. A lot of the time, the internal resistance or imposter syndrome is caused by our beliefs around self and our beliefs around self can be shaped in our childhood. So, you know, we can have experiences. We'll touch on this in a bit. They're called mental prisons. we get stuck in these mental prisons that are formed in our younger age that then if you like carry with us in adulthood, but they're buried at a subconscious level. So you might be out on stage, you might be doing your thing, you might be pushing, pushing, pushing forwards, but in the back of your mind, you know, there's a limiting belief or there's a core wound or a mental prison that makes you think otherwise. And that's what, the biggest cause of imposter syndrome is. So, you know, we can touch on this and I can give you a framework as to how you and your, your viewers and your listeners can overcome this stuff. But if I may for a minute, let me just give you bit of like real, just honest background. So, you know, I've done a lot of property deals. I've done some big &A deals. used to, if you like, have a group of companies, there's 13 companies in the group, which is turning over 30 mil, involved in private investment funds in Gibraltar and places like that. It all looks super impressive. And I'm not saying this to brag or boast. This is where I've got to, but where I came from was very, very humble beginnings. I grew up in a very toxic, single dysfunctional single parent family. My father wasn't around, my parents were immigrants, they came over in the 60s. It was a very, very messy, painful childhood. My mom had mental health issues, it was physically abusive, was verbally, emotionally abusive. Statistically, a guy like me who grew up in that environment should either be dead, in prison or drug addict. That's the stats. So to come from that to where I am right now, it wasn't through luck. didn't have any silver spoon, I didn't have any special advantages. The key thing for me and the biggest reason that I got involved in learning about psychology and personal development is because, my language, I went to fix my shit because I was all over the place. I was a kid that got kicked out of school at 15. I went off the rails. I went into trouble with the law. I was smoking weed. I was partying. I was distracting myself and numbing myself from my pain. But also at the same time, I knew that, hang on, I'm down this path because I'm around the wrong people. But actually I see that other people that are more successful, they think differently. I remember knowing that when I was about 15, 16 years of age, successful people think differently, they act differently. Why am I doing what I'm doing? What am I thinking? And how do I think differently? So that was when I was about 15, 16, and I got to, I think my early twenties, and I met someone who was actually a coach who literally opened the door to me to this world of personal development. And I'm going to tell you the story of how I became a property investor. So when I was 18, I moved out of home. And it was a big deal for me to move out of home, like not much money had to save up, a deposit. And I moved into this little studio apartment in South London. It was amazing. Had a little pool and I thought I was the bee's knees at the time. So 18 in a little studio flat was a new build development with a communal pool. I'm the man. So the agent says to me, look, get the keys. The agent says to me, look, the, the landlord's going to pop around and come and get the mail. And I was like, okay, fine. So a couple of days later, there's a knock on the door and there's a young kid. So bearing in mind, this is like, back in the early 90s, you I used to dress like a little bit of a, what are they called? A street boy, you know, like hoodie, puffer jacket. looked like I was from the streets. So there's knock on the door and open the door and there's this young kid there who's dressed almost the same, baseball cap on, hoodie on, you know, and I'm like, who is this guy? He said, I've come to click the mail and I said, oh, you must be the landlord's son. He said, no, I'm your landlord. I'm Andy. And I was like, no, flipping away. How is this guy my landlord? So I discovered this guy had gone out and he inherited some money from a relative passing away. He then went and borrowed some more money. I think he inherited 10 grand, borrowed another 10 grand, went to auction and bought a property for 20 grand. And this was what the prices were back then. Refinanced it for 25, got all these money back out. And I was like, wow, you can do that? And he was like, yeah. He said, I've done it five times. And back then there was no buy to let mortgages. So he ran out of mortgages. So I was like, I'm going to be a property investor. So I rushed out and bought my first property. 10 years later. So people say to me, well, why didn't it take you from 18 to 28 to do your first deal? The reason for it was because I had massive imposter syndrome. So with the upbringing that I had and the childhood experiences I had, it left me with unresolved childhood PTSD. So there was a lot of trauma, a lot of emotions around that. It left me with a lot of what we call core wounds in psychology, wounds like I'm not good enough, who do I think I am? There was a lot of fear. around being successful, you know? So what happens is when you've got core wounds and core beliefs like that, we call them mental prisons, you get stuck in those. And then what happens then is you will subconsciously sabotage. You won't go for the deal or if you do go for something, you'll feel the resistance. I remember being an 18 year old kid and I went into the bank to find out about mortgages. And again, I wasn't dressed properly. had the baseball cap, looked like a little yobbo. Went in there, I got laughed out the bank and it was like, okay, why? Maybe I didn't look right, maybe I didn't present myself right. Perhaps I was just a little bit naive and didn't know how things work. So it was like part of me wanted to go forwards, another part of me was wanting to hold myself back. So when we understand this and we understand the psychology behind this, we then be able to set ourselves free from the resistance. So for me, the reason it took so long was because, you know, I had the internal resistance. I felt like I wasn't good enough. I felt like I was an imposter. Who's going to take me seriously? You know, what if it goes wrong? What if people laugh at me for trying you have all these internal dialogues that go on that we don't want to share with people because they're uncomfortable They're uncomfortable for us. It's scary. So why would we turn around to our friend and go? Hey, look, you know what? want to do this thing But I'm shit scared that if it goes wrong or something goes I'm gonna look really bad, know We don't which is why you know when you say that we need to talk about the humanistic side of things I think it's fundamentally important we do because it doesn't matter if you're just starting out in property or if you are, you know top of your game I worked with a client a little while ago who was a private owner of a bank in Dubai, family, incredibly wealthy. Okay. Guess what I helped him with? They were selling the bank, but you know what? He was so out of his depth, not because he hadn't done impressive track record because he felt like an imposter. So what we did with him is when I coached him, I sat around a boardroom with him in Dubai, literally it was going back to the childhood experience he had that caused that mental present of him feeling like he wasn't enough. Once we shifted that, he was able to then progress with the sale of the bank. It all comes back to being human. It all comes back to a lot of the blocks that we have. Sometimes most of it is childhood. A lot of it can be things that happened in our adulthood as well. You know, we have people who've gone into business, perhaps their business has failed or something's happened. They then form another limiting belief around self or they have a traumatic experience in business that means they don't want go forward. So it's the labels and the meaning that we give ourselves when these things happen that cause, you like, the limiting beliefs, the core wins or the mental prisons that keep us stuck. And then we feel like we're an imposter when we go out to do stuff. So that first 10 years of me doing things, it took me ages to get there. And it was only when I started to learn about psychology that I started to actually take action. Cause I knew, I knew everything. I knew the internet's about doing property deals back then. I knew who the builders were and you had to do refurb and you had to go buy. I knew everything in theory, but I struggled to take action, which is a big problem. lot of people have. So When it comes to taking action, there are what we call four phases of execution. The first phase, and this is what I teach to people like yourself, people who are other coaches and mentors and other leaders. When we go through, through execution, the first phase is what we call the euphoria phase, which is, you know what? I've joined Athena's group and she's got a mentor on me. Great. Brilliant. So I think it's not going to teach me stuff. I'm going to learn and be just like her. What happens then is I go out and I start to do things. I realized, actually, Athena, I don't know how to negotiate. I don't know how to talk to investors. I don't know what to look for. All of a sudden then we become out of our comfort zone because what happens is there's gaps in our knowledge. We don't know what we don't know and can't see what we can't see. So initially I had this false sense of confidence like, because I'm joining your program and you do it and all your other students do it and they get amazing results. I'm going to do that too. In that moment, what happens is we have what we call the epiphany phase, which is where we realize, shoot, I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm not sure what's going on. I'm not sure how this is going to work. we have that crisis of confidence and this is normally where imposter syndrome kicks in. So imposter syndrome is when we feel like what we're doing, we're not quite the right person. Our identity, who we see ourselves as doesn't match with what we're doing. And the biggest fear is we're gonna get exposed and people are gonna find us out. Does that make sense? yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I can't wait to go into more detail with you about this because there's so many facets to it that I'd love to discuss with you. One of the things you touched on, which I just want to emphasize because it's something that I've touched on in one of my own solo episodes that I've done. I'll be honest with you, Akta, this is one of the things that I really like to talk about and I like to highlight when I speak particularly to property investors who are just starting their journey. And I speak to them when I speak about this. And we've all been down this road. myself included, is I believe that what people think, because this is what school believed you to think, is if I want to go and learn how to do something, I therefore need to go and learn the theory and the education of it, so I'm therefore going to go and buy a course. So I think I want to do HMOs because HMOs sounds good and it's got high yields and I think I want to do that, therefore I'm going to go and learn all about HMOs. So you pay two and a half grand or whatever you pay, you sign up to a three-day course, you take pages and pages of notes of theory about how you're going to take on a HMO and manage a HMO and all the furniture that you need etc. And then they say right enjoy off you go Yeah, bye bye and literally you sit there with with your directive end letters all your bits and you go my god, what now like what what am I meant to do with this? What do I do? And I cannot tell you the amount of people I talked to who have paid thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds and done nothing with the education that they have received. And it breaks my heart every single time because what people don't realize, and actually I really hope that educators are listening to this and change the way that they teach is it's great to learn the theory. Yes, the theory is important, but when people say to me, what is the difference between learning, say a self-led course or education or courses that they teach you for three days and a mentor, like yourself, for example, and me, when I do my mentoring, is that we teach you about, well, we don't teach you about you, we help you to understand you, which then helps you to understand what skills you have and what's holding you back from then going forward to then be able to implement what we're teaching you. And that is so, in fact, that is the most important thing about all of this, as you said, you know, the three things you said, what was it again? Let's just go over it. It was, The psychology is the first step. The strategy is the second step. And the implementation is the third bit. Yeah. I totally get what you're saying, anything, because I have the same, I've had people that come to me and I've spent 25 grand here. What to do, we haven't got there and it's not delivered. I'm like, yeah. So what you've got is the strategic part. The thing in any strategy, psychology. And I think the other thing that you need is the business strategy. But I think everyone is so unique and different. So it's so important that you've got a customized, I call this a UBS, a unique blueprint for success that's designed for you. So when I work with people, And I used to run masterminds. Everyone would sit down with me and go, right, you're here point A to point B. Here's how you put this stuff together for you because there isn't a one size fits all. Otherwise you've got that. You've got people who spent tens of thousands of pounds. They come home and go, great, I've got this. And you're absolutely right about we conditioned to learn at school, learn, recite, remember information, pass the test. Okay. You're not doing that in property. You remember that information, but now you have to go and put it into practice. So the two missing components are getting your psychology and your mindset right. But then also it's important that you have a customized structured blueprint for you. So let's say for example, say I've got clients that come to me and go, look, I'm just starting out. I've got very little money. What should I do? What's the best strategy for me? You go do this. I have other people that come to me and go, look, I've got X amount of millions. What do I do? You're better off doing this. Otherwise it's not going to work. So I think you need to have something that is a bespoke strategy for them, but also is right. And you mentioned this before. is right for the outcome they want. The thing I say all the time is, look, your business, your property portfolio, it's not the end goal. It's the vehicle to get you from where you are now to where you want to be, which for most people is living a certain lifestyle. Because that's what most people are in pursuit of. It's, know, how do I feel happy? How do I feel fulfilled, like feel fulfilled, live a life according to my values? That's what we all want at the end of the day. So if you begin with the end in mind, here's my life, here's my dream life. This is what I want. This is what I want to create. And we go, great. then based on where you are right now, here's the right strategy for you based on what you want, your resources, your skillset. And then we can, as mentors, we can give people that blueprint of here's the strategy, here's the psychology, here's the blueprint for you. And then, you know, there's four things that people need to go fast. And this is what I call the fast model, right? First thing is you need feedback. If you're trying to do this by yourself, you don't know what you don't know and you can't see what you can't see. You need feedback from someone who's been there and done it before, okay? The second thing you're gonna need is accountability because it's so easy when you're back at home at your desk with your HMO notes to not do anything. So you need to have that accountability, whether it's an accountability partner, a community, a mentor, you need someone who's gonna hold you on track. It doesn't matter where you are, what level you're at. I've got coaches and mentors, right? I know you have too, right? That's the first thing. The second thing is you need support and we need support not just from a how do I do this in the technical information. We need someone who can support us through if you like the emotional turmoil and the resistance that happens, because I can tell you this now from my experience, that's probably the biggest thing that blocks people. It's the imposter syndrome, the mental prisons that we keep ourselves in, the traumas that flare up. mean, I had a developer that I worked with that was on the brink of doing a really big deal and he was procrastinating. And when we dug deep, like I literally had to prise it out of him. It came back to a childhood experience. If this deal goes wrong, I'm scared of my wife and kids leaving me. I'm like, dude, I can understand that, you've been married for 20 years, your kids are teenagers, where's this really coming from? And when we dug real, real deep, he was abandoned as a child by his mother, right? So, you know, once we dealt with that, he was then able to like move forward. So it's so important that we have this deeper understanding of ourselves and as mentors that are out there that teaching people, if you don't know this stuff, bring people in like who can help to support your community. Cause ultimately. I think we're all trying to do the same thing. We're all trying to get to a place where we're happy, we're fulfilled, we're successful and even as mentors, we want that for other people. And especially people like you and I who are heart centered, we see people suffer, we see them struggling, we see them like stuck and we want to help them. So I think it's so important that we can help them to understand that humanistic point. Okay. So we need support from that perspective. And the final thing, I think the most important thing is you've got the right tribe around you. So having feedback, accountability, support and the right tribe. especially if you've got a tribe of people or a mentor that is going to understand the humanistic side of things and there's a safe space for that, you're going to thrive. Because a lot of times people put masks on and they hide this stuff because they're uncomfortable, they feel ashamed, you know, they feel inadequate. No, this is normal. This is normal. Even though I know this, I teach this, I've written a book on the subject, I teach it. Every time I ascend, guess what? I go through the same stuff, you know. I still go through this stuff today as I ascend and go to this next level in my life, the same shit comes up and I'm like, but I just know where it is and I know how to navigate it. Yeah, I love that. And we're going to touch so much more into this because I really want to kind of just help as many people as we can in this. And so far, this has been amazing. I've been listening and nodding along. I'm like, yes, love all of this. Before we go any further, Akhtar, as part of this podcast, what we also do is we always talk about things that we are celebrating at this moment in time. Because I think that when you're on this journey, it's so easy to get caught in like a hamster wheel. And we're constantly just trying to achieve the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. But sometimes it's important to take stock of where we are and go, actually, do know what? I'm celebrating this at the moment. This is pretty cool. So what are you celebrating at the moment? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm actually celebrating being 50 years of age. Like I sometimes have to pitch, am I really that old? I've got teenage kids, but I don't feel my age, but I feel that for me, just celebrating this next era of life, I'm celebrating it I'm celebrating it for a couple of different reasons. I've been in that stage where I've been hungry, driven, doing deals, working around the clock, hustle and grind. This phase is about two things. It's about contribution right now. So I'm celebrating being 50, but I'm celebrating this new phase or this new decade for me going from 50 to 60. It's all about contribution. And the way that I want to contribute is by sharing this wisdom, these insights, these learnings I've had with as many people as possible. So I'm really grateful to come on here as your guest here, but also to share this with your community, because ultimately for me, every time, and you know this, there's nothing more rewarding or soul-nourishing. when you see that you've helped someone change their life or they've moved forward. So I'm celebrating, you like, 50 years of age, I'm celebrating this era, if you like, of contribution and my new brand, is called Superconscious, Superconscious Entrepreneur, which is where I'm helping people to become more aware, not just in business or property, but in life too. So I think if you've got a, you know, we take a holistic approach. If we are looking at things from a holistic approach, everyone is trying to live life on their terms, whatever that looks like for them. So if we can help them to if you like, give them the business strategy, give them the action plan, give them the emotional mastery and the emotional intelligence to overcome the resistance that naturally leads into spirituality. And for me, spirituality isn't religion. It's just literally having a high level of consciousness in whatever way that looks like for you. So I'm just celebrating this next era of my life, because normally I come to I used to come to talks and talk about strategies and this business strategy. And that's, you know, that's all good and well. There's plenty of people talking about that. I'm celebrating now. me talking about things that are from the heart. And this leads to a beautiful point. A lot of people have seen me as the property investor. They've seen me as the guy in the mergers and acquisition space. They've seen me in, you know, industry magazines and stuff. That's one side of Actile. They've seen, you know, pictures on Instagram of me in the Maldives or in Mayfair. That's one side. What they haven't seen is the real authentic side of me, which is I'm a very balanced, at the end of the day, I'm a down to earth kind of guy. I think I'm really celebrating my authentic self. Okay. love that. Yeah, which the reason I share this with you is people like people don't see the spiritual side of me. People don't see that side of me when I'm with my kids. They don't see the side of me when things are messy. You know, like even even at this stage of my life, there's things that work out beautifully. There's things that are chaotic in business. There's things that can be a bit messy or don't go to plan. That's just part of the journey. So people don't really see that. But I'm real about it because, you know, it's not always that perfect picture. You're to come, you know, Go by this course, do five steps and boom, you're going to be a HMO, no millionaire. It doesn't always work that way. And I think when we can show people, look, sometimes it's up and down, sometimes it's messy. Sometimes your business will be on point, but your personal life might be a mess or it can be vice versa. So I think I'm just celebrating this stage of being really authentic. That's probably what it comes down to, know, just being authentic. I love that. And you actually do have a crystal. You're wearing a crystal right now, aren't you? Is that right? Yeah. So this is obsidian, which is the crystal for protection, right? So a couple of years ago, I would not put this on, I'd be like a bit more corporate talking about, you know, property staff and business stuff, which is all great. But you know what, for me, what I found is this, the more you can raise your consciousness, however you do that, the more you're going to become aware, and the more you're aware of like problems, or you're aware of the things that are keeping you stuck, then you have the opportunity to change. Yeah, that puts absolutely. And you know what, that actually leads me into a beautiful celebration for myself actually, based on what you literally just said, which is I'm actually really sick and tired of actually almost having quite corporate business conversations, if that makes sense, and going and almost being quite like, this is how I'm meant to be, and this is how I'm meant to dress, and this is what I'm meant to do. And you know what, it works for some people. And I look at some people and I think, you know, you are well put together. You have a full face of makeup on, you have your hair just perfectly done. You are amazing, stunning, beautiful, and you've just got the whole package as it were. Fantastic for them. But for me, think what's real for me is like that I come on this podcast, for example, and don't put any makeup on and just turn up as just me because I think for me, what I'm finding and I'm celebrating is by having meaningful conversations and letting my guard down and just being who I am and not pretending to be anybody else and admitting when I don't know the answer and saying to people, I can't give you the answer to that. I don't know what the answer is. That actually creates better business because then what happens is, they say, well, she's, you know, if she knows the answer, she's going to say, and if she doesn't know that I know that she doesn't know. And actually it creates better business because you create those more meaningful connections and then you connect on a deeper level that then results in business. And I think that's what I'm learning and celebrating is you can turn up as your authentic self. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to know everything. You don't have to have the most polished outlook, outlay in the whole life, but you can still be a good business person. And those two things can come together. And I think I'm celebrating that and that's what I'm trying to represent going forward. Yeah, I think what you've just said there is like gold, like really is gold. You can be authentic. And I think one of the reasons that we don't is it's a mask. You know, it's like if I turn up polished looking the partner, that's great. I see it. I know. I talk to people all the time that on the face of it, their life, their business looks perfect. And then what happens is they call me up and go act up. You know, the shit hits the fan. You know, my marriage is failing apart or my kids are off the rail or, whatever. So think dropping the masks, being real and being authentic is going to create that level of intimacy and trust with people. Cause they're to go, look, Athena is real act as real just says it how it is. And it's going to build that trust. Also people are going to relate. You know, people are going to relate when, when I run like trainings or, know, we do retreats and things like that. We just create an environment where people can, Hey, we're just going to be completely real here. We can, you know, leave out, you know, we can leave our roles by the door. You can leave your CEO role, your founder role. property investor, your mom, dad, husband, wife, whatever your role is, leave it at the door and let's just turn up and be really real. What's going on for you right now? And the minute one person shares authentically and says, Hey, you know what? This is what's really going on for me right now. You know, people are just so relieved to be able to share that. And the other thing that happens is this, when we can share authentically like that by, if you like conscious people who are going to be accepting, you know, it's a game changer because most of time people hide. because there's a fear of being judged. When we allow ourselves to be that open and honest and vulnerable and authentic, it creates the opportunity for us to be seen. And when people can see us, know us and understand us, and they accept us, that's when we truly feel unconditionally loved. So why is this a game changer? Why am I talking about unconditional love right now on a property business podcast? Because it's what heals and transforms. Yeah, a lot of the time, the reason these wounds are... created is because we didn't feel we were okay or we were enough or we were acceptable in some way, shape or form. So there's nothing more beautiful getting a load of entrepreneurs together, you know, in in a, I guess a mastermind or a retreat or something like that, where they can just sit, drop all the masks, be really real and be seen and accepted by the rest of the group. That creates those authentic connections. But also here is the golden nugget for today's podcast. The antidote to imposter syndrome is being authentic. If you are absolutely authentic with who you are, where you're out on your journey, then, you know, no one's going to like say, Hey, you're an imposter. You're not doing this. not doing that. And I know you mentioned earlier, there's a of new people to property here. I have this all the time where people have got the identity of being an employee and they're going into entrepreneurship and they're like, well, I haven't done this. I haven't done that. I haven't bought property yet. That's okay. You know, you're starting out, you know, it doesn't matter. Just say to people, Hey, I'm just starting out on my journey of doing this. I'm just new. I'm just beginning. Even having meetings with bigger people, hey, look, I'm just getting started. You're number one, go feel congruent because you're aligned and you're talking the truth and you're not BSing anyone, not trying to pretend. Yeah. The worst thing that I've heard is people say, fake it till you make it. If you say that you're going to fake it, you're telling your subconscious mind that you're faking something. It's going to feel inauthentic and congruent. When you say what we do, when I teach people, I say, just act as if and just be authentic and be honest about where you are in that moment. So, you I had a guy on a coaching call once and he was literally fighting me on this. And I said, listen, have you got kids? He said, yes. I said, when did you become a dad? Was it when, you know, your wife conceived or was it when your child was born and was like, oh yeah, it's when, you know, the conception happened. So it's the same with us. When you conceived the idea of I'm going to be a property investor, I'm going to be a business, whatever your thing may be, that's when you are that person and you're on a journey. It's not so black and white. So if you're authentic about it and say, look, I'm just starting out, I'm just doing this. people will be able to see you and accept you, but also, no one's gonna judge you. And it's gonna the resistance or significantly minimize the resistance that normally happens when people go through those phases of implementation. And it just means it's so much easier. It just takes all that pressure off. Does that make sense? So being authentic is the thing. Yeah, brilliant. I've got two things I really want to talk... Well, well, actually, let me start again. One thing you just said, actually, which was really important to say is you were like, when people actually come through the door and they show up as their authentic selves and they leave everything at the door and they just turn up as them, that's where the real magic happens. So, as always on this podcast, I am gonna try and be... the example of, you know, to lead the way. That's what I hope to do for so many people in leading that. And I mentioned to you before I came on the podcast about an episode I did where I literally read out like a letter I wrote to myself, which then encouraged so many people to do so. I'm going to be the person that leaves everything, you know, out the door, you know, what's that word, theoretically. So I'm going leave girls and property at the door. Leave all the businesses at the door and just be me, just be literally a person, Athena Dobson here and now, to have some really genuine, authentic conversations with you about how we truly feel about things and life and everything. So that's the first thing to say. You know, we are just two people with names right now, nothing more than that. And I think the things that is really interesting is that, and I know a lot of people will resonate with what you just said. I can literally remember when I first started in property, I can put myself back in those shoes. And I remember at the time I was doing a model called Rent to Rent. It the first model I ever did, which was very difficult. Lots of rejection, lots of learnings, lots of things that went wrong, many, many things. And I think I do a whole podcast about that, by the way, about the things that I learned from my first Rent to Rent business. But one of the things I always used to really struggle with, and I wish I could go back and do it again now, knowing what I know, is I always used to struggle with telling landlords that I didn't have any properties that I managed yet. And they'd say to me, well, how many properties do you manage right now? And there was a time, Acta, where I'm just gonna bear it all, where it is this whole fake it till you make it. And you're like, well, we've got a couple and we do this and we do this. And I think actually what was happening was, was when they started to then ask questions about it, that's where the imposter syndrome came from, because I didn't have them. And so therefore I felt like an imposter by saying that I did, and I didn't like it. And I think that actually what I now encourage people to do when they say to me, what should I do? I don't have any properties. How should I be speaking to landlords and investors and people at networking events is exactly what you just said. Just say, I don't have any at the moment, but this is what I intend to do for your home. This is why you should come with me because this is who I am. Get to know them. The best advice I can give to you is, I mean the listeners when I say this, find out what their problem is and become the best problem solver in the entire world and really get to know them and understand. Is there a connection you can make about something personal to them? Because I'm telling you, people buy from people. And it doesn't matter that you don't have a property. I'm a landlord myself and I guarantee you that is not the thing that's going to get me to sign a paper with you whether you have 10, 15 properties. It's about do I trust you? Do I trust you to do a good job? So don't ever let the fact that you're starting out and you don't have properties be the thing to hold you back. Like you are enough. You are the perfect person to manage their property. You just need to believe that in yourself and then they'll believe it from you and then the deal will be done. Absolutely. think what you've said there is absolute gold as well because number one, people, even if you, if you, if you fake it till you make it and you, know, you're BSing people, they're going to smell it. They're going to feel it. Cause you're going to subconsciously your body language is your voice tone is just going to leak. That's just how it is. That's how it works. Right? So it's inauthentic. Your, your approach is absolutely beautiful. And I want to give you like a little bit more to add to that. If you go to someone and say, listen, I'm just starting out right now. This is what I plan to have. This is my business. This is the vision. So I've done like big deals before in the business buying space, right? Where I've pulled together groups of company and everyone has the same things like, well, you it's not about the money. Who are you? You know, what is, you know, what, what, are you offering? When you can sell people into a vision that's aligned with their values, then you, you create what I call a beautiful collaboration. So for me, if someone came to me and said, actor, what's your biggest problem right now? What's your biggest challenge right now with your property business? I'd say A, B and C. And I go, if I can take that away from you and deal with that and deal with all the, you know, the tenant problems and all that stuff, would that be okay for you? Okay, great. What are the problems you have with like your managing agents and stuff? How can we improve on that? Point A, point B. So if someone came to me and said, look, I'm gonna, I'm new, I'm starting out, I'm hungry, I'm building this new business. This is what I want to do for my business. There's the vision, but here's how I want to serve you. that for me would be a game changer. I would choose someone who's got no properties over someone who's got a thousand properties all day long, because the number of properties doesn't mean anything. Remember, it's our thought process that says, I haven't done anything yet. So therefore what does it mean? It's what we make it mean and it's how we would judge someone else. So we have to put ourselves in the shoes. And I've done this with a VA that came and worked with me. was introduced by another VA and had no experience whatsoever. That was two years ago. She's like my rock now. She's like, you know, general manager, she's an apps, we gave her a chance and she came to me and said, look, I've got no experience. I don't know what I'm doing. She was really uncomfortable. said, learn as you go. So I think the thing is question that you can ask someone if you are just starting out and you haven't got a business and you are going to go out to someone to share the vision of your business. Yep. Be authentic and real about where you're at. But here's the most powerful question you can ask them is what's important to you about someone managing your property. Okay. Because what this question does is elicits their values. Listen, I want someone who can deal with things, respond quickly, make sure the rents are paid on time, deal with maintenance. I want someone who can deal with everything whilst I'm traveling around so I don't have to deal with it. They will give you their criteria. So asking someone what's important to you about renting your property out, what's important to you about selling your business. You can ask this same question. What's important to you about investing, if you're working with investors. They will give you their subconscious criteria of what their values are. I wrote an article for this in a business buying magazine. Happy to share the article with your viewers, but it gives you the essence and the structure of how to do this. And if you come from a place of authenticity, your focus then is on them and how to serve them. You will do more deals than anyone else. Of all the deals I did, I've only ever bought four deals from an estate agent. Everything else has been direct to vendor. Why? Because I've created authentic connections with people. real genuine connections. And like you say, if we can find things that are rapport points, know, we obviously we've both got a rapport over our background, our childhood, we've got similar childhood experiences, property, mindset, heart centered. There's a lot of things that will bring people together. you know, it's not always about you haven't done it before. It's about what have you got in common with this person? How can you serve them? How can you help them in a way that's better than anyone else? And that's what's gonna get you the deals. And I did that when I started out. I had the same stuff. I people reject me. I remember like when I was doing a lot of deals at one point, you know, going out and meeting vendors, it's a learning curve. And I think if you're authentic, say, look, we're just starting out. This is what's going on. This is what we're doing. The other thing is this, if you've got a mentor behind you, just say, look, I work alongside Athena. She's my mentor. She's been doing this, da, da, da, da, you know, and I've got her support and guidance while we're working in partnership. That's going to allow you to borrow someone else's credibility. As long as you do it in an authentic way and it's all genuine, that's what I'd advise you to do. But there's no reason why you shouldn't get started. Again, it comes back to the same thing we said at the beginning, psychology. Let's get our mindset right and our belief system right and know what to do. And then, you know, nothing's impossible. Yeah, it's incredible. I love that. I love these conversations. So honestly, if I could go back and not that I don't have enough on my plate at the moment, but if I wanted to add more to my plate, I'd love to go and do another degree in psychology. Psychology is something I'm so unbelievably interested in. And I tell you what, Agata, another thing is, and then I want to actually talk to you about something that I haven't told you about. And I want to get your thoughts and feelings about it, if that's okay. But before I do that, I've got a retreat coming up that I spoke to you about on Friday, 25th of April, and I'm getting a lot of messages at the moment regarding questions about it and girls wanting to come. And I have had some messages from some girls that say, I would love to come to this, but I don't think I have enough experience yet. I don't think I, I don't have any properties. I don't have anything on. I don't really have anything to say. So I don't think I'm good enough basically to be in the room. I don't think it's the right timing for me. And I'm there going, it's the... perfect timing for you because you're going to be in a room of 80 incredible women who are literally going to Boost you and give you that accountability support tribe. Everything that you just said is needed It's gonna give you that like I created this space for that. That's what it is and it's safe You know, it's non-judgmental. It's collaboration like, you know, that should not be the reason you don't come but It's fascinating that people still think like that. They feel like, I don't have anything to say, I'm not good enough. Like that really upsets me that they feel like that. Yeah. And the key thing for that is they're stuck in the mental prison of I'm not good enough. Okay. So when we have these core wounds or prison, so what is a mental prison? A mental prison is almost like a matrix that we're stuck in that operates at a subconscious level. So there's all these, you know, rationalize rationalizations, rational lies of, I haven't done this. I haven't done that. They're all red herrings. Cause at the core of what's going on here is this person is feeling that they're not good enough. I'm not good enough to be in the room, but that belief or that core wound or that prison gets generalized all across the board. So it for them, the shift will be to heal that aspect of themselves. All it takes is like one childhood experience where, you know, I say childhood, because most of this is in childhood. What it takes is an experience or a multitude of experiences that keep reinforcing that belief and it becomes part of your identity. Unless you get challenged on it, it will be there and you won't do anything because you will just feel deep down at the core of your being. You're not good enough. So you won't go for the retreat. You won't go for the support. You won't go for that coffee. You won't go for that chat with the, with the investor. But this is not just business. People do this in all different contexts. You will sell yourself short. If you don't feel you're good enough. I'm not good enough to have the perfect body or perfect health. I'm not good enough to have the perfect husband, wife or relationship or family. We'll do this. We will literally, this is what I, when I started to call earlier on, this is what we call an upper limit. There's a glass ceiling. Your subconscious mind gets you, lets you get to this far. And as soon as you get to this point here, It creates the resistance and I don't want to go. The very fact that you're saying that you don't feel you're good enough is the reason that you need to go to an event like this because number one, as I said, you need that tribe. It's not about what you have to say or do. It's actually about this person learning and receiving. So my intuition is telling me that this person needs to learn to receive, which is wisdom, guidance, love, support. But the reason they probably don't receive as much is because they haven't, because they don't feel like deep down inside they're not good enough, but not good enough normally leads to feeling not worthy, right? So these are deep blocks that people have. I work with people around, you know, money blocks and things like that. It always comes down to self-esteem. So coming back to your retreat, absolutely, this is the reason why you need to go to these environments, because you will be around those people. You know, they say you become the sum total of the five people that you spend time with. Immersing yourself in an environment like that, would be really powerful. I had a retreat I ran in Marbella back in January and that was powerful. We had guys that were like doing multi-million pound business deals. We had founders there and we people in startups that were, I think we had a young lady there, it was 22, 23. We had people there as old as 60. There was so much value that came from them being in the same space. So, you know, for someone to not go to an event where there's 80 other women at all different levels, it's almost crazy, you know, that they don't because they can't see the value they're to get. So if you're listening, Get out there, get your thing. You really need it because again, if you stay in your comfort zone and do what you've always done, you're to get what you've always got, which means nothing's going to change. If nothing changes, nothing changes. So we have to do something different. most things are going to work. Some things they won't, but they're just going to be learning experiences. So I honestly urge people, people don't realize the value. I run retreats also. They don't realize the value of actually being immersed in that environment. with those people because you will become like them, you'll learn them, you'll create friendships, you'll create the support network, you'll have people that hold you accountable and also you'll be inspired by those people. you know, anyone who thinks they shouldn't or that, you know, they've got reasons why they shouldn't go, if you've got any reason that's telling you that you shouldn't go, that's a mindset block like that. It's not really a practical reason, can't get kids or whatever it may be. You should do whatever you can to get to an event like this, especially with someone like Athena, you know, get out there to go do it because... you'll shift, you'll grow. And especially, you there's a lot of mentors that, you know, we talked about the courses earlier on courses make money for people because you get people in and out. I don't do courses, right? Mentorship and real mentorship, real handholding takes a lot of work, but people who do it and people who can teach this really care. They really give a shit about people, want them to, to, to like, you know, thrive and they want them to be successful. So I would say that if you've got people who are listening and they've got these reasons why. Ask yourself, can you be a hundred percent sure that this reason is really a valid reason not to go? Yeah. Maybe get on a call, just get on a call with Athena or get on a call with like one of your team and say, look, this is my thought process. This is what's going on. I have people say this all the time. I have people say, listen, I'd love to work with you, but I haven't got the money. like, I can appreciate that, but that's the reason that you want to come. It's not that you haven't got the money. It's your money mindset isn't in the right place or you've got blocks. And sometimes within an hour or so, just the first coaching call, we get them unblocked and unstuck. and then they can move forward. Whether they work with me not, I don't care. What I care about is people getting unstuck. Yeah, I love that. That's brilliant. one of the things that happened to me recently, which I would love for you to almost give me bit of guidance about this and to get your thoughts, because I hope that also listeners would also maybe relate to this in their own capacity of how they felt. this actually happened the evening of the event that we met at, and this is what happened. I was at dinner with some of the girls in Property Girls, we went for dinner, and one of asked me a question. She said to me, Athena, do you get nervous speaking anymore? Do get nervous at this? And I thought about it and I thought, I do, but I get a lot of energy from it. I really enjoy it, so I don't really get that nervous. I get more energy from it. And the more and more you do things, the more and more you become more confident in doing so. And my background is musical theater. I was on stage until I was 18 years old. So I've always, been comfortable in front of people on stage, whether that's dancing, singing, acting, whatever it may be. And so that's obviously transferred into me being able to speak on stage to whatever amount of people it is. However, saying that, something really interesting happened to me at that event in London, which I have not told you until this moment. So this is going to be interesting to unpack. So I walk in and I knew this was going to happen, but you know, it was interesting to see. In London, I started my presentation and the first thing I thought to myself was that this notion that it's a sea of people but why would say the majority it was probably 70 % men 30 % women would you agree with that more men than women yeah yeah and so I was standing there going through this and don't ask me why this happened iconic you're gonna in fact I'd love you to tell me why this might have happened As I'm going through my presentation and what everybody sees externally with me is this bubbly, outgoing person. But internally what's happening is I'm going, why would the men be interested in what I have to say right now when I predominantly portray myself as the host of Girls and Property? And I was like, hmm, there's a lot of guys in this room. Why would the guys be interested in what I have to say? Absolutely no logical reason in my brain right now. I carry on with the presentation. And then what happens is, is I start internally talking to myself whilst also trying to present and be bubbly and outgoing and everything. And then what I see in my eyeline is I see people start to go on their phones. I see people start to potentially be distracted. So then the next thought that comes into my head is I go, I'm not good enough. They're not interested in what I'm saying to them. They, you know, I clearly aren't, I clearly don't have. and they clearly don't have an interest in what I say. And then I start thinking potentially that they've, they're better than me, they've done more deals than me, they probably think who is this girl. And actually probably all that they're doing is just texting their partner to be like, hey, I'm just at an event, I'll see you later. But my psyche takes over and I go down a rabbit hole of this notion of the guys don't want to listen to me, no one's interested in what I have to say, we're in London, so people have probably done bigger projects, bigger developments, everything than what I have to say here. and they're not interested in it. And so although I come across this as really bubbly outgoing person and I can carry that, I do have internal dialogues that happen on a daily basis, literally in my head. And I tell you what's incredible is, it only happens after I finished the presentation, it happens every time, is it's amazing, don't get me wrong, and I love it every time is when the girls come up to me and they're like, you know, For example, Jenny, I said this before, Jenny Mitchell said to me that she drove two hours to see me that night, you know, and she's like, Athena, I literally drove two hours to come and hear you talk. And I was like, girl, you are crazy. Like, why would you do that? And she was like, because I wanted to see you. I wanted to meet you. And like those moments are crazy for me because it's almost just bizarre. And I'd love to get your opinion on that as a separate note. But when the guys come up to me and the guys say to me, Athena, that really resonated me with what you just said. I really took that away. I really took that away. I'd love to talk to you further and pick your brains more. I'm like, so the guys are interested in what I have to say. Like why wouldn't they be interested in what I have to say? And it's almost this mental block for me where I get guys message me all the time now saying, Athena, I love your podcast. I'm like, I didn't realize that you listened to my podcast as well. So I would love to almost get a bit of your take on that as to why. why I might be feeling that way and why I have those experiences and where those blocks come from potentially. Yeah, you want to go there? You ready? god, are we? god, I don't know, I'm scared! I know you said you're scared. said we're to go down a rabbit hole. The thing is, this might bring some emotion up for you, sweetie. So just letting you know right now, okay? don't do that people have heard enough of me crying on this podcast Okay, well look, yeah. So the first thing is you're questioning why would you be seen by a man, okay? And then what happens then is when that happens, you go down this scheme, it's called schema, like a series of thoughts, you know, I'm not good enough, they've done this, there's all this dialogue that goes on. Okay, so it's about not being seen by men. Yeah, so did you feel seen by your dad? as it did. you see, this is where this is where it gets deep because everybody knows the story obviously where you know dad left mum raised me Yeah, so what happens is when we have a parent leave or abandon us for whatever reason, the child, children are egocentric. So when you are, I think, seven, six, seven years of age, if dad leaves, yeah, then all the child can think is, well, dad left, therefore it must be me. I'm not enough. Okay? So what happens is we have these wounds and this pain and we internalize it because we can't say... We don't have the understanding as five, six, seven year old kids and we don't have adults and caregivers that go, hey, look, your dad left because of this. wasn't anything to do with you. Or your mom left because of this. It wasn't anything to do with you. We don't. So we internalize it and go, it was me. It was my fault. I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable. I'm not worth it. Blah, blah, blah. So just apparently being like that can cause that wound to happen. And then you've internalized it. And now it's like the men are not listening. So what's going on? And then you, you know, you're going to go down that same thought process that you had. being in that environment where there's a lot of men or you think men are not listening is the trigger. So probably somewhere in your past childhood, you know, it could be that one event. could be a series of events. You know, all it takes is a dismissive, but parent parent comes home and doesn't really pay attention to the kids. They're not seen. They're not seen. And, know, as I said earlier on, like when we drop our mask, we need to be seen. We need to be heard. We need to be understood in order for us to feel truly loved because You know, you can put all the masks on and be as polished as you like. You know, we can show up here and go, yeah, great. You know, this is who we are in business, but the strip all that shit back. This is who we are as human beings. We've still got wounds. We've still got these traumas that play out and we will go down that thought process. And this is also another reason why I asked you that question as to what made you cry. Cause I was like, okay, there's still something there that you've got to heal. So that would be what it is. It's just the same, you know, when we get triggered, what literally happens is in a moment, like literally in a nanosecond, we get triggered. The way the brain works is, this scenario looks like what happened when I was seven years of age. And what the brain does is it just wants to keep you alive and it wants to avoid pain. It's not interested in making you thrive. So in a nanosecond, mean, our brains do this all the time. It's always scanning at a subconscious level for danger, for threats. So if we have a parent leave us for whatever reason, or if you had a parent, criticize us, chastisers, whatever, back of my mind, we're always going to be looking for that danger. Yeah. Because you know what? That experience was painful for a kid to lose a parent is, is an existential threat. It's like life or death. So people can go one or two ways. When we, when we've had that, if you like that break of attachment from a parent, we can either become insecure and like, you know, want it clean. So you know, adult relationships, we can be insecurely attached or we can become the opposite, which is we're avoiding, which is we don't want to get close to people in case we lose them. Yeah. So, so that's probably where it comes from, most likely. And there's probably some emotion around that stuff that needs to heal still. And there is a projection going on, which is, hey, you know, the thought process of, why would they listen to you? Okay. You know, and if you were not listened to or seen by a parent, I had this with a, with a female client of mine just a week ago, you know, she was like, well, why would anyone listen to me? And I said, who was it that did listen to you when you as a kid? And she was like, actually it was my dad. He was present. but he was always the center of attention. So she never really got to feel seen. It was like his voice was more important. So for you, just seeing that this is where it comes from, this is where it stems from, that you are enough, yeah, which is the main thing, right? We're not good enough or bad enough. We're just simply enough. We're enough. And if you ask someone this, right, if someone says, well, I'm not good enough, well, good enough for what? Good enough to be seen? Yeah, good enough to be seen, good enough to matter. The thing that we all want the most is, do I matter? Do know what's really interesting, Aktar? It's like, I like to think, and I hope the listeners would agree with this, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I like to think I am people's biggest champions. You know, if someone was to come to me and say, Athena, I don't feel enough. I don't feel like I should be seen. I don't feel like I should stand in front of a room of men. I'd be the first person to say to that other person, do not be so ridiculous. You're amazing. You're inspiring. Tell them every reason why they're fantastic. But I tell you what is the- hardest thing to do for yourself. It really is. Because you're there like, like, you know, yeah. Mm-hmm. It's gonna be hard to champion yourself, you know why? Because the little girl in you didn't have someone championing you when you were a kid. Especially your dad. Yeah, I think it's more than that. I think sometimes it's hard. It's hard to, you know, I'm being really, as I said, I'm gonna turn up just as me. And like I said, the podcasts are really different, Actar. Like some podcasts are, you know, I just did my 100th celebration with Sophie and it's really sort of upbeat and fun and jolly. But sometimes it's important to have other types of podcasts like this, which if the listeners wanna listen to, yes, they're triggering, but... It's important to also have these conversations and actually, you know, it's not always easy. It's not always easy to be okay 100 % of the time. And I think that's important to lead. I want to lead is what I want to do and to say to people, it's okay not to be okay all the time. And I've sometimes had, I've sometimes had girls who literally turn up as their most bubbliest, brightest, self to other people all the time and then they come to me and we sort of have a chat and they're like, Athena, I don't, I don't feel like me today. And I just say to them instantly, I'm like, girl, you don't have to be anything with me. You can just be you. You don't have to pretend to be anything. And I think that that's what's so special is it is hard to be a business owner. It's hard to turn up as our authentic selves because it's the most scariest thing to do. I have to be honest with you, I'm getting used to crying on this podcast. The first time I did it, I was mortified and almost edited it out of the podcast. Now I'm like, the ladies and gentlemen know, they're like, Athena's crying, it's fine. But it's important to do it because I hope that this has helped others. I hope this has helped others to say, we are enough. And you said something beautiful there, which is actually what hit me the hardest, which is where the tears came from, because it triggered me. You said enough for who? Enough for what? That's what's triggered me because it's almost that's that's the bit I can't work out. Do you want me to help you here? Okay, let's finish, let's finish beautifully though. This is beautiful because I think this is a gift. You showing up this way is beautiful because you're real and authentic. also, people are going to see this. I've been through what you've been through. When I see people going through this, I know what that pain feels like. I kid you not, I still do my inner work. I'm still on a healing journey, even at 50 years of age. When we have this stuff of not feeling enough, most of the time it comes down to just, it's around being loved. You know, am I enough to be loved? As children, what do we want? We just want to be loved, we want to be taken care of. I've got two teenage daughters. My youngest is 13, she'll be 14 in July. My eldest is 17. They're like little stray cats. They wander off, do what they want to do, then they come back and they want to sit on my lap and have a cuddle and just tell me what's going on. And they just need to know that they matter. And I say this to them all the time. sometimes it's through my words and my actions that you matter to me, you're important to me. Yeah, I love that. think that is so important for a dad to say that to his daughters as well. So I'm, you know, you're going to raise just beautiful daughters there. That's amazing. But I think what I'd love to, what I'd love to say is sort of my parting words to the listeners also would be, I think, and I, maybe I need to go on this, this healing journey, but if I was to think about it today, I would say to people in myself, all that matters is that you are enough for you. That, that's probably what I would leave the listeners with. If you are proud of what you do, you can sleep at night knowing you are a good human being that's done good work, then to me that should be enough for you, regardless of what anyone else thinks. You can't please the world, you really can't, but as long as you're happy with you, that should be enough. And maybe that's the bit that I've got to get to. Absolutely, what you've just said there is absolute gold because what we do as children is we seek external validation. When we've gone on a healing journey and a journey of transformation, and this really ties in with like imposter syndrome as well, what we need to do on this journey of healing is to come to peace with us and validate ourselves. We are enough for us. As children, we need these things externally because that's just how things work, how we survive. It's about saying, I'm enough. I'm enough. I'm happy with who I am. I'm pleased with what I've done. So yeah, it's something that we need to get to. It's not an easy journey, but where that comes from is shifting from dropping your masks, anything that you've got that's like ego, drop all that stuff, come to a place of authenticity, heal yourself from the mental prisons that I'm not enough, I'm not good enough, people don't wanna listen to me because the thing is... These things will keep you playing small and they'll stop you from living your best life and being the most successful. With most of the work, I'd say 95 % of the work I do with people is the inner work here. It's healing, it's mindset, whatever you want to call it. That's the bit where people are stuck. We remove the resistance, then you unlock people's full potential. So just knowing that it's okay, this is normal, this is real. This is what goes on in the hearts and minds of most people. Just most people aren't going to talk about this when they get to a property networking event or if they're in a big mastermind. And this is one the I've got the utmost respect for you, Athena. You you're doing amazing work with the podcast and what you're doing with women. People need to know this stuff because this has been the secret source for me in my journey of ascension. It's been literally becoming my authentic self, leaving the coping mechanisms behind, being okay with me and saying, hey, I'm enough for me. I'm happy with who I am. Okay. But I'm clear and I absolutely know who I am and I've got solidity in that. So when we become... When we become very solid and certain in our self, in our self-concept and our identity, we become unshakable. But that only comes from a place of authenticity. Otherwise, it's ego. So, you know, when you mentioned about being on stage, if we're coming from ego and, you know, false mask and everything else, that's going to crumble. When you come from a place of authenticity, not only will you find more acceptance externally from the world, people who can accept you will just go, yeah, I get you and resonate. But also you'll accept yourself more in that process of accepting yourself. That's when it will turn into just love. Hey, I love who I am. I'm enough for me. I'm all good. You know, and that's when we show up as our happiest, most authentic version. And that's really the antidote to imposter syndrome. Yeah, I love that. beautiful is that? And actually one thing that I forgot to do at the beginning, but I think it's important that we do include it in this podcast because it ties in with everything that we just said, which is we spoke before the podcast about the actual definition in the Oxford English Dictionary of imposter syndrome and what that is. And it says here that it's the persistent inability to believe that one success is deserved or has the... legitimately or has been legitimately achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills. That's fascinating, you know? Yeah, so the persistent inability to believe that one's success is deserved or has been legitimately achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills. Fascinating. And I love all of that. And do you know what actually, Actara, beautiful way to finish this podcast. is it's something that a beautiful, beautiful woman called Sharice Bijram said to me on a call once, and I'll never forget it. And if you haven't connected with Sharice, you must. She is a beautiful soul, very spiritual. She came on the podcast and listens. If you haven't listened to it yet, go listen to Sharice's one. And she said to me, she says, Athena, know, limiting beliefs. She said, what you have to realize is, on think to yourself is, is are they your own limiting beliefs or have you actually received those from somebody else? Are they even your own? And I thought that was such a beautiful question because she's like, where did these limiting beliefs even stem from? Because they can't be your own. They have to be what someone else has imposed on you and think about that. And so I thought that was a really interesting conversation, almost a thought provoking way to finish this podcast. is for people to think about that for themselves. Absolutely, most of the beliefs that we formed or the prisons that we're in, we've inherited. Okay, and this is why doing this work is so important. I'll finish with this piece because this is why I do what I do. What happens is, I was with a group of men co-facilitating at the weekend, and there's about 20 men in the room. When we go through this healing transformation, what we are literally doing is we are breaking the cycles of pain and trauma for future generations. So it takes someone in the family dynamic or the family system to be able to break it. And what happens is, you know, the stuff that we inherited and the limiting beliefs, we inherited it from our parents and the way they parented us. And this is not to chastise parents. They did the best they could, but they inherited it from their parents and so forth and so forth back down the line. So our ancestors thank us when we do this kind of work, but also future generations will as well. You your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren. So realize that this stuff that we've inherited, It normally isn't our own or it's a false assumption we've made about the world based on the perspective of a young child that doesn't know anymore. So most of the time people are suffering and this is the thing that absolutely pains me. We suffer and we experience a lot of pain and turmoil based on a false belief, which is the mental prisons that we're stuck in. And once we understand the construct of our reality, like everything we think is real. is our own matrix. The film The Matrix is a great film because what it does is it shows you how reality is constructed. There things in our reality that work for us, there's things that don't. So we can literally, this is the power of the mind, with the right people and the right tools, we can literally start to shift that coding and change that. And we can rewrite and reprogram our operating system, but also we can pass it on to future generations, but also leaders, people like yourself, when we share this with other people, there's a ripple effect that happens and it makes the world literally change, transformation happen. one person at a time. So remember it's not, it probably wasn't your staff, it was a false assumption and it can be changed quickly and easily with the right people, the right environment and people don't need to suffer anymore. Yeah, beautiful. What a beautiful way to finish this podcast. I have loved it. And I could talk to you for hours, literally, I could talk to you for hours about this. And you know what, guys, and listeners, if you've really enjoyed today's podcast, please can you let me know if you would actually like to do a part two of this podcast, because I think there's so much more we can talk about. You know, we haven't even touched on Money Mindset. That's a massive one. So I hope that we can do more of this going forward, because I think it's such an important essence. that so many people will be able to relate to whatever journey they are on in their life. So thank you so much for today. No, listen, thank you. It's been a beautiful privilege for me to come and share this stuff. And, know, I just would love your viewers and listeners just to get one thing out this that makes a shift for them. Then, you know, we've done what we need to do here. And absolutely, I'd love to come. I've got some really powerful, effective stuff around money blocks as well. So happy to share that with you and your listeners. Yay, we'll get you back on, definitely. Act I'm sure that some people are really gonna wanna connect with you after this podcast. So where is the best place for them to do that? Best place to go at the moment is Instagram. So if you go to Instagram and search for superconscious.entrepreneur, you'll find me there. You'll find some content on there. You'll also find me on LinkedIn as well. So you can come over and talk to us on LinkedIn. Always happy to have a chat with people or if there's people who suffering or going through something right now. Always happy to guide people. I know that, you know, we've had a very deep, real, raw conversation today. which has been beautiful. it's, you've led beautifully by example, Athena, you know, there's a, can see why you have so many people following. We need to be real. need to show people, but if there's people that are suffering and they need some help or, just reach out, I'd always be happy to talk. And I've got a team that can help, but we can put people in the right direction if that's, you know, if that's the case, but we've got content, we've got lots of stuff that we're putting out. And again, there's a lot of free content that we're putting out going forwards because we want, personally, my personal mission is to help every man, every woman who wants to, be able to break through those upper limits. of the mind and the heart and soul so they can live their best life but also have business on their terms. So we help people to break through those traditional boundaries. I'm only one man, I can't help everyone. So this is why I like to share with people like yourself so you can share with your community. There'll be a lot of content that we put out over the next few months through Instagram and also our social media, our YouTube account. So it's all free content, people can go there. It'll all be similar content to this, but I'll be diving down the rabbit hole. And again, my mission here is just to help people become. as free as they can from the limitations of the mind so they can just go out and live their best life. That's what it's all about. So follow me on Instagram and we'll connect. I love that. Brilliant. this has, like what I really want to say on this particular subject is, is like most things, this has no gender, no gender barrier. This is for everyone. This is something that's so important for men, for women, for everybody to really, really just, you know, support and learn about. It's brilliant. Yeah, I think what you just said there is super important. I know that you, you know, you predominantly focus on serving women, which I think is needed. mean, you know, women need other women role models. This is why I'm getting you to come in and talk in my group. And obviously we've got a women's group, but also it doesn't matter like who you are, whether you're man, women, or you identify otherwise, you know, I've, trans people in my community that I'm helping in support. If you're a human being, you're going to go through this stuff. And the sooner we learn this, we apply to ourselves. we shift and change, then we apply to the people in our families or businesses. And also then it just, you know, it just transmutes and it gets spread through children and so forth. It's a really important thing. So understanding self is really important. Yeah, beautiful. Love that. And you know what? I made the right decision not to wear makeup today. I knew that. I was like, God, no, I'm going on with that. Like I probably shouldn't wear makeup just in case there are some tears. So I made the right decision there. But as always, am, if you want to find me on Instagram, am Athena Dobson underscore official. Just drop into my DMs also on girls and property on Instagram. If you want to talk about the retreat, if you're not sure whether to come or not, just ask me questions. I'm always here, happy to chat, happy to open. And then what I actually talk about and mention on this particular podcast as well is I do have my free mindset accelerator module as well. So if you actually do want that to try and help you with your mindset, it's completely free. It's me talking to you with some really, really conscious, easy steps that you can go away and do yourself, then just DM me the word mindset and I will send you that link as well, or you can find it in my bio on Instagram. But yeah, we've got, think about, well... I think by now we'll probably have about 10, 15 tickets left to the Girls From Property retreat. So, you know, there aren't many left. DM me. The guest list is on fire. I'm so, so excited about it. And like I said, no matter what stage you are at in property or business or finance or construction, come to the retreat. I built this for us. Come and support it and come and help me to be the change we want to see. Akhtar, thank you again. Thank you so much for such a beautiful, beautiful podcast. and I will be getting you back on again. So thank you. Thank you, thank you and have an amazing retreat. Get to her retreat guys, go out there, go do it. Thanks guys, have an amazing week. Bye. Bye bye.