Cracking the Instagram Code: Mastering the Algorithm with Sara Smile-Scott

She’s back! Now, you might be wondering why we’ve got two social media episodes in a row, but trust me—both bring something unique to the table. Last week, Milly Bellotti shared why posting on social media matters and how to lower the barrier to entry. This week, I’m thrilled to welcome back Sara Smile Scott to take us behind the screen and into the matrix of Instagram, breaking down key strategies for success.

We dive into the importance of understanding the Instagram algorithm, why consistency in posting is crucial, and how to effectively leverage insights. The conversation also tackles the common overwhelm that comes with social media and, once again, reinforces the power of authenticity in personal branding. Plus, I wanted to get Sara’s take on how introverts can confidently navigate social platforms—taking small steps toward visibility, celebrating wins, and building meaningful connections.

Tune in for an engaging and empowering discussion that will help you work smarter, not harder, when it comes to social media!

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. How is everybody doing today? I am very excited for today's episode. I always, always love the episodes where I know the person that I'm going to be doing the podcast with because I've always said this podcast is literally how I want it to be is that I'm having a cup of tea with a friend, talking about real stuff that's going to give so much value, so much content, so much help to all you listeners. but also have a lot of fun as well because life can get so serious. I don't know about you guys, but over the last couple of weeks, it's been a bit up and down, a bit serious. And so today I just want to give loads of value, but also have fun along the way. And what better person to do that with than Sarah Smile Scott. Hey Sarah. Hey! I love going on to your podcast, Athena. Second time round. yeah, second time. no, second time. I feel privileged. feel honoured. we're not in Malibu anymore with our little fancy... Sorry, I was just going to say something completely different about red carpet there, but our fancy villa where we could have the best podcast episode near a pool. But here we are back in sunny England. But for those that haven't met me before or have listened to any of Athena's amazing previous episodes, I am Sarah, most known for being a world traveler, started this amazing world of Instagram back in Bali in 2017 and still going strong in 2025. As you can imagine, there have been many changes. So what I like to credit myself for is being able to just help amazing women like yourself listening, really understanding how it all works and what I've been able to do over the last few years through workshops, events, retreats, group coaching, one-to-one mentoring, is really give you a simplified understanding that you leave with an aha moment, like yes, this finally makes sense. All these barriers of was it this that was stopping me or was it this holding me back? It all becomes very clear for you. So this is where I'm currently at in 2025. is really trying to simplify it with all the forever changes that we see that we can actually make it a success for you and for those that listening. I'm hoping by whatever Athena is going to ask me, I can really simplify it to where it makes sense and you can go away and implement that straight away. I adore that. Yes, I love that. And you know what I said to you just before we press record on this podcast, you you were telling me about all these amazing things that you were doing for people. And I said to you, I was like, do you know what, Sarah, you're just one of those really good people on this earth, aren't you? I was like, we need more good people like you, because it is such a thing. Like I love it when you can, you're so, people are gonna find out this today and find out more about you through the workshops and everything, but you are just so amazing. at what you do as well. And to be honest with you, in a wonderful way, you're kind of obsessed with what you do. But I mean that in like the best way, because I remember and I can say this, because I've worked with you personally, like I've paid for your services, I've been a customer of yours. And I remember I said to you, I was like, Sarah, I can't stand it. I don't want to know about the algorithm. I don't want to know about how it works. Like, can you just help me and you you literally did what you just said. You're like, Athena, it's once you know it's not that bad and you explained it to me in simple English about how it worked and I had my own aha moment and I was like Sarah that makes complete sense now I understand so hopefully we're gonna create more aha moments today on today's podcast I love that so take us back I know obviously I've had you on the podcast before and obviously you've told your story before but for those who maybe didn't hear you before but they're now seeing you more and course really interested in the community workshops coming up that you're going to be hosting. Tell everybody a bit about you and kind of how you found yourself ending up doing what you're doing now and freelancing and kind of the journey that got you there. Yeah, you know, some of these things I believe in like timing and a path and I remember really wanting to be an influencer. Apologies for those that have heard this before because I'm sure I may have mentioned this on your last podcast episode but everybody had a dream back in 2017 about being an influencer. That was what it was about. You can make loads of money just posting and I actually tried. I'm not going to lie, I held my hand up. I tried. It wasn't for me. I'm just not here for it. Like just too many perfections and too many editing things that people wanted that I realized is a unique skill set. If you understand how to become an influencer at the time, there was a gap of where does this help small business owners though, because surely the same concepts can overlap each other with slight tweaks, which led me to like you're saying, I just became obsessed with, why does that do that on Instagram? Like I don't really understand why that image or that video. works a certain way but it doesn't for others and they're starting to really start to dive deep to actually understanding well my business is female entrepreneurs like if you imagine female entrepreneurship is that going to be as big as people sharing travel content they've just been to the moldies they've just been to the bahamas who's going to enjoy me talking around here's an update which is relevant to right now in 2025 instagram changed the pixel dimensions on our grids now. Like me talking an educational content of that versus this amazing drone footage of a Maldives beach coming off a slide into the sea. Let's be honest Athena, anyone listening? What's going to perform better? Me talking about a grid size in numbers or the Maldives? It's definitely going to be the Maldives that perform better. Like no one can deny that because it's visually appealing. Everyone loves looking at it. And then when you broaden your mind and think how many female entrepreneurs are there to people that consume content. And I mean, general consumers, because the Maldives applies to me. It applies to anyone here. If you see something that's like really attracting you to it, you're going to watch it. If you see me say, Hey guys, let's talk about pixels today. It's like, boring. Move on. It's a very small number. So where I got obsessed with was that small number of people means that we don't have the wider opportunity to a massive audience. It means we have to stay in our lane and follow our path of all I need is a smaller amount of women for me specifically that I want to work with to see and watch that piece of content, not going for massive numbers, not trying to get viral views because viral views A lot of people don't like to admit this, but can actually damage your Instagram because there's a difference between an influencer that can go to the masses and a business owner that wants to make money in their business. So where it all started to intertwine for me was really understanding how, when, and if we talk about property, that's a very small percentage on a platform. That's not going to get hundreds of thousands of views or interactions. compared to the Maldives that will get it quite quickly. So I started to really, honestly, imagine an operating table. I started to dissect it. I started trialing errors, like figuring out, where would that fit in? And then it came with the concept. As you very well know, Athena, I mentioned to you last week, I call it the triangle of success. So the three points of a triangle is Instagram's backend to where we need to make sure one point is the explore page. The next point is your Instagram feed. The third point is your target audience. And if you were to draw around that, comes into a circle. That's a whole circle being complete. So what I've spent the last eight years doing is understanding that what strategy can I give to any business owner in any niche that will bring a formula together that will help them build a buying audience, not an audience that's just going to see your content consumer and move on. that actually connects with them so that you start to feel in a space that is massively saturated now, how do I as a beginner or someone that's been doing it three years actually start to build that traction to get the result that I personally want on the platform? And as you can see, as I've gone on my normal tangent, I do like to have a good chomp. It makes sense to where over the eight years, how it's taken me time to figure that out, to be able to support women to actually understand Right, this is what I need to do now to actually make it work for me. Forget the numbers, forget them all these, forget all these other content. Let's focus on my path and my vision and let's get you on what I call the success pathway, which is social media. Not just for beginners, but it's across all of them. Instagram has its own way. TikTok has its own way. Facebook has its own way. But as you said earlier, Athena, when you know, know. And that's where my expertise has come in and what I've built over the years is just through sheer trial and error to make sure that it's a success for anybody that implements it. Yeah, I absolutely love that and you do and you explain it in such a fantastic way. And what I would like to say is of course last week we got Millie Bellotti on the podcast talking about social media. And of course this week I've got you speaking about it. But what I like to think I've done is we've got Millie in, let's say last week talking about the importance of social media, how to create social media, why social media is important. But what I'm hoping for with this podcast is almost like a part two, which is right now you know. and now you know how to do it, what is the matrix behind it? Because we've often said, haven't we, we're like, Sarah, if we cut you in half, you literally would have coding the matrix in you, wouldn't you? Yeah, and it's so funny as well when you speak about the matrix, because every time I say it, and I want this to go in everyone else's head, just imagine those green numbers. Like, that's really what it is. It's like a shower of green numbers constantly trying to code it. And I like to call it like a jigsaw puzzle. So all these numbers are going about five million milliseconds, and like a second or whatever, to try and find number eight to match number eight, number one to match number one, to actually complete a puzzle. This is what Instagram is. And if you were to take that and make it into a person, have listened to some of Millie's and it's fantastic. And one thing that we definitely understand and that everybody should understand is that consistency is key. So that consistency level is going back to the matrix in just a second is it's working it on your time. So imagine this matrix when they're putting all these numbers together in the backend. What they're actually looking for is predictability. So when people think that they have to post every single day, and like Millie said, it can get overwhelming. Then you decide you just don't want to post that that does happen. But if you realistically say to yourself, this is how much time I've got left. Once you've gone through all your admin, all your clients, everything else, I have got three hours a week that I can dedicate to my content creation and posting. If that's only coming with say one real and one static posts that that's realistically going to be twice a week, then you stick with just twice a week, whatever content is you're going to put out. Now, why that's important in this matrix is the more you stick to that two posts a week, say a Monday and a Thursday, whatever time, always around the same couple of hours, say it's between 5pm and 7pm, is that matrix, the more you do that, is then going to start to reward you because they're like, actually we know that Athena is going to post at the same time every week. On these certain days, she's done that consistently for eight weeks now. That means that in this matrix, they're starting to give you reward points. So it's starting to go gold because they're like, well, Athena's keeping people on our app. Like everyone forgets Instagram is a business. It's not just a platform. It's they are a business. They want to make money. So if they think that Athena is going to bring in a community of people and they're going to see her content and she keeps doing that. than that user stayed on the app, which is rewarding Instagram to help them to make more money. Because we all know, and if you don't know, Instagram was number one platform for years until TikTok kicked them off in 2020. So what they really want is based on our user time, which the matrix tells them is how is Athena going to keep more people on this app? Well, she's already got our reward points because... She does the same two posts at the same time every week. We now trust her. It's now become this circle of hope, which comes back into us as business owners. What we're trying to do from our potential clients is build trust. Not many people are going to buy without trust. So if we can start to relay that message back to Instagram that here's my consistency pattern, they're going to start to reward you by showing you to more people. That's how that little kind of section works when it comes to the consistency side. It's not that they want you posting every single day. Cause if you can't actually keep up with that, they're going to be thinking after a couple of weeks, hmm, Athena, you've kind of let us down a little bit now. We're not going to give you much reach on this next post because you've just posted 10 posts last week to this week. We can't understand what you're doing. Therefore the reach goes down. So. what we want to be looking at when it comes to really understanding that back end of what can I be doing consistently that's going to help Instagram to support me to get to the right audience, which leads me onto, and this is like really important, and I'm going to be going a deep dive into this in the first training session next week in Athena's community with you lovely ladies is the algorithm itself needs to understand. And if we don't understand it, imagine your business, you've got to build those foundations. It's the same thing on social media, no matter what platform we need to already set this algorithm up to work in your favor. And the best example I can say to that is feel free. can, anyone, if you're listening to this, you can click on your Instagram right now. If you go onto your explore page, which is a little magnifying glass at the bottom and you have a look at it. If it isn't say all property related or mindset, motivational speaking, whatever it is that you're currently pushing and you're seeing the latest Sarah Hall or some cute animals, or I don't know, you've got kids, so you should see like loads of options of what to dress your kids in. I can already tell you that if you're seeing that more than property or your business, then Instagram's already confused that they're already thinking, well, we think you're interested in the next Sarah Hall and you're interested in cute animals. So when you post, we're going to show it to someone else that likes cute animals. Whereas for you, you're thinking, no, no, no, no, I don't want that. What I want it to do is to show this amazing flip and this amazing renovation that I've just done on a property. I want that to get shown to other property people to build a network. So what I'll be going through on Monday, and it's quite quick, Athena's done this with me before. I will show you very quickly how we change that. So that when you go on your Instagram Explore page, it's a very clear reflection of, now Instagram understands who I want to attract. And that's going to go back into that triangle effect, which will domino that if we've got a mirror reflection of your Explore page matches what you're posting on your Instagram feed, already that aha moments come in of like the dots are connecting. So in that green little shower that I like to call it now. It's already now going to connect two and two instead of two and eight. So we've got to make sure that our dots are lining up with the numbers to make sure that we're really starting to target who you want to attract, not get sucked in by all the content that's out there now of our actual interests. And I will give you the answer to that when you join the training of how you start to have separate ways for separate things to make sure that what you're wanting to attract that's the correct avenue and any of your actual interests, that's a separate one that's not going to damage and give you any kind of no reach from when you're posting. Does that make sense, Athena? yeah and you know what's making me giggle to myself? full disclosure, the reason Zara and the reason Sarah is using Zara and dog and animal explore page examples is because that's what she found with mine. my explore page was full of Zara Hall dogs everywhere and I was like yeah but that's what I like to watch. I like to watch funny dog videos. I like to know what the latest trends are with Zara. like that's what I like to do. And actually what was fantastic was, you gave me some really quick and easy advice when my answer to you was, and I'm sure listeners might be thinking the same thing, they're like, okay, and this is what I said to you, was like, okay, Sarah, like I hear you, I understand, but at the same time, like yes, I want to have my explore page correct, and yes, I want it to up the algorithm, that's what we all want to achieve. But really, 11 p.m. at night when I'm just switching off, I don't really want to be looking at flips. don't really want to be looking at property. I want to be looking at funny dog videos. And we're not going to say it now. We're not going to say it now, but you told me exactly how I could keep my fun dog videos, but still get the explore page in the right way. And those, those are the golden nuggets that I think are what separates you. just think that you, you know, fantastic with the knowledge that you give, but full disclaimer, that was my explore page. I think that's it, doesn't it? Because I'm such a visual person, and I'm sure there's many people listening, I've always been a visual learner. I like people to actually walk me through it by showing me it. If people are trying to tell me, this is what you should do and just do it like this, I've retained the information, but then when it comes to it, I'm very much like, I'm not really sure what they meant by that. Whereas if someone's actually visually walking you through it, like, here's the explore page. this is exactly how you do it. You press here, you do this, you do that. I'm like, I finally get it. Because I'm visually watching that and then I retain it much easier. Everyone's got different ways of learning, but I massively find if we look at it together, it's going to help. And you were totally right, Athena. I was referencing your explore page. But the reason for that is because it's relatable. And you're like, yeah, it was that. Trust me, I've been on some people's before that refused to do it. There was a lady. that worked with and she absolutely loves crochet and every week when we come onto our call it would still be there and I'd be like come on now are you still getting sucked in? like well sometimes it comes up and I'm like it can sometimes but I know and I can see we have not fixed this we've got the solution she went yeah but I've got them on both now they give me different ideas and I'm like we can work this out so yeah I hear her. And I tell you the other thing is I remember before we started working together, I be honest with you, I didn't really ever look at the insights page either. And I'm sure a lot of listeners actually will also think to themselves, do you know what, Athena, I've never looked at my insights page or looked at kind of the behind the scenes of what's going on. So what can people really find if they were actually to do that? And when I'm saying go and look at your insights page, how the hell do you even do that on your phone or your computer? Yeah, well, that's it. Insights, I say use them as a guide. Don't take them for gospel. Literally nothing on Instagram take for gospel because as we know, the forever evolving and changing things all the time. It depends what account you've got. So again, this is now for the 6th of June, which I'm really excited about. It depends what account you've got. If you've gone for a business account, creator account or a just a personal account. For some people already listening, they're like, didn't even know they were options. Don't worry. Well, when it comes to six, I'm going to break the difference down between each one and which one you should have. But if you have got a. A career account or a business account, you'll see when you open up on your Instagram, it says on your feed above it, professional dashboard. And if you press into that, gives you light. I don't know why they've made this so complex. Now it used to be just analytics. There's like three sections that have got engagement followers. can't remember off the top of head what the other one is, but if you click into one of those options, it's gonna show you what Instagram currently believes on your activity, what the most upstate analytics are. So say if you were thena gained four followers in the last day, when you click followers, it'll update in the followers section, whether that was a male or female, if they're from the UK, if they're from the States. And then underneath that, will give you a graph of what Instagram suggests is your best time to post. But like I said, that's just an overall guide. Obviously on the 6th of June, we'll be really diving into this to make sure that how your reels are doing, like what those insights mean, like how you can make the next one better. And I think not better in that it wasn't good enough, but I mean better in terms of retaining more views and having this algorithm set up to how it's going to work for you. Because actually, It's like, and I used to have a course called the IG blueprint and it literally is this blueprint now will probably be the size of a football pitch when it comes to Instagram, because there's so many different elements that they keep adding in, but they've never done. And actually a good point, this is the whole reason why I started my business and it used to drive me mad. I used to do trainings probably every day when I was traveling, maybe it was a bit like just high on life. I'm not sure, but I used to do daily lives and I did the lives because. Instagram has all these amazing features, yet have you ever seen a training video on them? they're never like, hi, everyone. I mean, I get real like laughs out of following Adam Missouri, however you say his name, who is Instagram. The other day, and I have commented on a few of them, but it is funny. He did a post that said, we've changed the like button. Like, does anybody actually care? about the like button. Like, and all these comments, there must have been about 10,000 comments of everyone's complaints. Why don't you just give people the reach again, Adam? Why don't you fix this issue for the, mean, I'll be asking this question in the training next week for the ladies, has your Instagram updated to the new size yet or not? And all you get is just all these complaints because what they've done now, and this will be included in the blueprint is, Yeah, we've just made it so if you press the button, it's a bigger heart and a different color. Like, like, like that's a first world problem Adam right now on this platform. Like let's start helping people get the support, maybe break down why the analytics are good. I mean, he does do some videos, explain things and that's great. But actually for anyone, if you were brand new to Instagram, it's like, I would want to know how to use this. mean, let's be honest. My mind, I'm a bit OCD. When you use stories and just information for everyone, that is my favorite feature on any platform. It's the stories. But now when you press that little smiley post-it note on your stories, what in the flip are we looking at as a bar? It's just like a complete mess. So the point that I'm getting to with this is it would be useful if an app that wants you to use it did an actual guide on this is how you fully use it, not just a, we've just done this and we've just done that. And it's like, that's great, but you're not actually telling people like how they can use it. And I think for me starting out, it was really a space for me to just say, hey guys, they've added the new location in story, say at the time, this is how you use it. And it was just a straightforward, this is how you use it. This is the benefit. And then the next video might be something to do with... static posts when they introduce carousels because what a lot of people don't realize is and again it's going to be another question depending on when you joined Instagram there's been so many features that have either evolved or they've added or they've introduced some of them are great resources that can actually help you make money I mean it actually paid money through Instagram or paid money through Facebook you can actually get paid by them but they don't tell people about it. Mmm. literally showing up. So I kind of lost track, I apologize for where I first started, but what it was I was trying to get across to everybody is I think for me, really breaking down the most important features that Instagram has that's gonna help you generate an income, because let's be honest, that's most people's goals. They're the fundamental features that you need to know. You don't need to know if a like button's changed color or it's got a different function. What you need to know is, How do I take my customer on a journey using all the free features available, not paid ads, that's going to actually help me maximize my results and actually start to get me in front of an audience that I know would want to listen. Cause that's the main barrier at the minute. The audience isn't finding people anymore because they've changed it so much. And that's where this annoying algorithm and explore page is an actual real vital part of that, which is why in any training that I do, people always say, Sarah that's gold why do you tell everyone this? Because without it you're already going to be at a disadvantage so we need to make sure you know how that works. Yeah, definitely. And what I just want to say, I just want to this moment just to say a couple of things. So the first one is, is this is why I decided to do two back to back social media episodes for the podcast, because Milly's one was very much about the reasons why you should post and how we can post and everything. But at the end of the day, and Sarah, know, within our world, right, for property, we are such, as everybody is actually, shouldn't just say property, we are all busy people. Right? And so some people listening to this podcast, I know just by listening to you just then might actually feel quite intimidated by almost what you're saying because they're like, my God, overwhelm, overwhelm. It's too much to think about all of this. What we're actually trying to do is, and what I really want to try and do with your help, with Millie's help, with Rosalia's help, with Jackie's help, with lots of people, is to debunk that myth. It doesn't have to actually be complicated. What we're going to be doing. is working together to really show you that to work smarter, not harder. And if you understand it, it isn't this notion where you don't need to say anymore, I don't have time, I don't have time, it takes too much time. It's like, well, actually, it takes time if you don't know how to do it, or if you don't understand why or what you're trying to attract with your audience. If you actually take the time to understand it and understand the algorithm and how it works, which is what I've gone to do, it works much better and you don't have to have the most lights. You don't have to have the most comments. As Sarah says, actually works against you to go viral. If you just get that pocket and you speak directly to that pocket of investors, landlords, whoever it may be, that's where you're going to get the most of it. And I should also say just as this moment before I mention it again at the end is what Sarah is referring to, because Sarah, not many people will know about this, is within the community, my girls and property community, which is a paid for subscription that I now have, I bring in different experts to talk about different topics. So tomorrow night, which is going to be Tuesday, the first of April, I've actually got Sarah coming into the community to do an hour and a half session all about this and to delve a little bit deeper into it. So when Sarah's talking about the session, that's what she's referring to. And then further to that, when Sarah is talking about the 6th of June, what she's referring to is that we're going to be doing some in-person workshops for the girls and property community because When I asked what people wanted through feedback in the community, people wanted more in-person experiences. And so I'm going to be doing like 20 person in-person workshops. And one of the most popular topics is social media. honestly, Sarah just is the most, I did Sarah's workshop when I was in LA and she had these gorgeous workbooks and it just came away with such tangible things. Like I like to think I'm going to put myself out there a little bit here. I like to think I'm okay in social media. I know a thing or two. Even I was like, God damn, Sarah, that was good. Like that was really, really good. And I came away with tangible things. I think actually in the session, I changed my bio with you there and then in the session, didn't I? was like, right, Sarah, I've changed it, done. Now what? that was mind blowing for me actually because there was six of us just to give some people some content. Yeah, I think it was six of us in LA that did the session and I'd already checked because I always audit everyone's things first and I'd looked and everyone's bios they seemed all right. They didn't seem bad. They didn't seem excellent. They were just great. So thought, this won't take that long. This will be like a 10 minute because I really want to talk OCD like myself, like literally we've got stories we could tell you about. I don't ever get moody actually, but I was starting to stress a little bit because when we get chatting and different things are going on, things get delayed. So I always with my workbook let's plan out a time for, you know, how long I think it's going to take me. And it wasn't just you, there was a couple of other ladies. It ended up, I think it was like 45 minutes, just making sure. The bios are important, but again, algorithm, the back end of that, it's important that that's accurate. So it's not really something that I would ever say to any person. We'll come back to that. Just do this for now, because it's important that it's done correctly that explains who you are, what you do, how you help people, and then they've got somewhere to go. If you've just got something like, Athena, host of Girls in Property, and I like dogs and going for walks on beaches, that's not helping anyone. We're not being fair. It's true, but we're not going to get like, everyone's just going to go, that's nice. But then if you were to have girls in property, I've got these events, I'm going to help you earn X amount. Let's just say if it was through that, you you guide for this and how we do this is you work with me on this level. People are going to think more on, I'm going to press that link now because that made sense. So yeah, you're completely right. And as you can see, these are just little elements, but I want to go back to where you said about overwhelm. Yes. feels overwhelmed when it comes to social media. mean now, and I always say this, we had the Gen Z's before and now we've got, is it Nipah babies? Whatever they are called, like they're all like little ninjas. They just know. They've, whereas we luckily I'm 90, so I've just grown with it. Whereas they come on now and I'm thinking I'll speak to someone and I always feel like so much younger than what I am when I meet people. When they start telling me things or how fast they're doing stuff, I'm like, I'm fast, but I'm not that fast. And then you already start to think, oh, I'm not, I'm too old for social media. It's like, no, you're actually not. Because if you were born in the eighties, nineties, or we've come with this, we own it. Like we were here first, we can still manage it. So for like, Athena was saying, if you do feel like, Oh my God, Sarah's going to go through way too much that, know, it's just going to catch me off guard. Let me just reassure you one out. It will not, because I imagine it like a jigsaw puzzle. There will only be little bits and pieces, whether you're a beginner or a bit more advanced, that if you make simple changes, it is that work smart and not harder. You want to reduce your posting. You want to redo your algorithm. Then that's just your goal for you right now. Each step you can build on it. I'm sure the replay for the first training, which, sorry, I didn't tell anyone that I didn't realize. is next week, you'll always be able to refer back to that because don't forget we're all human. Your brain will only digest so much that you just want to start with one little bit and just implement that and then just leave it for a bit. And then, okay, that makes sense to me now. And then it's a little bit, but all you need to understand is if your algorithm's right and you've started to get a bit of an audience, then just keep going. And then once you feel that you've got a bit more capacity to add a little bit more structure to it. It's still going to work. It just won't work without an algorithm set up in my opinion anyway. Some people may have a difference, but in the years I've been doing this, it's helped every single person that I've worked with and they're always then in charge and in control of what they want to achieve and on their terms. And more importantly, Athena, as I say to you, I want people to express themselves as who they are. Like, don't forget there are millions of people now on social media, millions. There's no such thing as competition. I don't know why people get too in their heads and scared and, you know, even for property, even though it's a smaller niche to a massive influencer. Athena, no offense. Some people may not want to work with you, but may prefer to work with someone else. But then the other person may prefer to work with you than that other person. It really does come down to you being able to shine in your voice. It's going to attract a person that you don't also, sorry, that... doesn't not just want to work with you, but you want to work with them because it needs to be a match. Like we all find this and that's why now even for us being here, it's like collaboration, like shout out to Millie blesser on hers. She is a very different social media strategy to me in the property, but I fully respect her. My audience isn't necessarily Millie's audience, depending on what she's speaking about. So therefore there's no competition there. It's supporting and being collaborative if that person's got a unique skillset. I've got a unique skill set and I can't physically work with everyone. So I think for us all in the online space, that's what we've got to remember. It's not about that fear of what other people are doing actually. And Athena knows this. I am just not a person that cares on my stories. I will share fails. I couldn't open a window the other day. So I shared it. I had to climb up my living room window because I left my house keys in the car. saw that. That was so funny. I did see that. Yeah, but what people don't realize that some people might think I can't believe she shared that but then other people like I love Sarah shared that that's hilarious. I'm not here to please everyone what I'm trying to do is show the audience that gel with me and know me personally that that is just so Sarah and what that actually does bearing in mind for everyone listening these are my stories this isn't on my actual profile is do know people that have been following for a while that know about me and my Instagram expertise let's say What actually tends to happen is they tend to work with me more because of my personality, because when they've watched me, it's made them feel, which is what I want for everyone to do, is that, I feel like I could just talk to Sarah. I feel like she'd understand where I'm at because no one likes to actually admit, I struggle with this. I'm not good at this. This isn't something that's easy for me. So when they see people just being themselves, and I'm not saying to anyone here, climb out your window and record it. What I am saying is just be you because the right people that watch are gonna think like for Athena, really aspirational. Like I'd love to be in her space. I'd love to be in her area of expertise when she's talking because it's contagious. And I think a lot of us can agree that and it's an amazing space to be in but that just doesn't come from Athena sharing her. Like I've got this event, I've got a community. It comes from her being like, did you see my latest image of how March went? I don't know if it was March, Athena, but I did watch it where you've got, you're eating food, you're on a beach, you're looking at some Thai food maybe in a restaurant of like, I don't really like the look of that. You went to fridge in your peeders with your slippers. Yes, I did see that. But you it. You shared it. And people think, that's a bit of me that I would definitely be like Athena with my games nights and stuff. And already, she was probably thinking, I didn't realize Sarah was up surfing. didn't realize she knew that I did games nights all the time with my partner and his friends. I didn't realize that she knew I liked to walk on the beach, that I'll travel everywhere for work, which is hard going. But I've learned that just from watching your story. So I knew who you are as an expert. I also know about you and know that actually together, if I saw you as a potential client, we're just going to bounce off each other, which makes you feel comfortable or me to feel comfortable to say, this is my problem. Can you help me? And that's what I want to help all the ladies in your community, not look at the millions of others and think, well, it works for them. So I should do that. No, no, no. Let's just own being you. If you're not as outgoing as me and Athena, you don't need to be. There's other ways to get you naturally across that still sees you as an expert, but as that human touch, because there's a back end side of thing and it's still the OG from hundreds of years ago. It's no like and trust equal sales. that will always stand. If I put out today, pretend I didn't have an audience or anything, I've just started out, work with me, it's gonna cost, I don't know, 100,000 pound. No one's interested in that. If I've got proof and people have lifestyles, like, actually, yeah, she's got the proof, I know her as a person, I'd risk that. I mean, let's be honest, I think that's a bit ridiculous for anyone to pay 100,000 pounds to work with a person, but it's just an example. Yeah, I love that. like, for example, Sarah, I tell you what, I talked to quite a lot of introverted people as well. And I'm learning so much, because I like to think that I think I think I'm quite an extroverted person just because of kind of my background and being on stage and when I was younger and that type of thing as are we, you know, we could walk into a room and chat to anyone we can put ourselves out there looking ridiculous on social media. because I want to encourage other people to be ridiculous on social media. I see too much perfection and I'm literally just like, no, thank you. I'm not here for it. Let's just be who we actually are. But then I get the introverted people that message and they go, no, no, I won't do that. No, no, no, I can't put myself out there like that. Like, how do we help those introverted people that are listening to this podcast going, yes, Athena, that's me. I just can't do it. I can't put myself out there. How can we help them overcome to come forward? Yeah, I think every introvert has got a wild card. You know, I know they're listening. Yeah, introverts are my favourite as well. I've worked with many introverts. It's just a different concept. They may not show themselves how mean you do, but every person's got expression. So all it is is a different concept. They may prefer images versus video. So images to them is like a security blanket to where it could be that they're sharing heartfelt, not like a meme, but you know, like a quote. But it's actually, we all know this, nothing grows in a comfort zone. So a little step to me and you, Athena, isn't a big step. To an introvert, a little step is a big step. But it's me figuring out, and for anybody that works with someone, is where is it they're at and what can I already see they'd feel confident with? And it's just smaller baby steps. Never has to be really share yourself being an idiot like I do, or something silly for people to laugh at. It's more about what are you comfortable and where's that line and let's work towards that. Let's get this little bit of you visible. Social media and you'll see a lot of people. One of my very, very good entrepreneur friends is a live, live strategist. So she specifically helps people with live video. She's an introvert. You wouldn't think it because when you see her talk and she's in her field of genius, you would never guess it. Massive introvert. but she's worked out a way of what works for her. That might be less amount of time on social media, but having like a power effect, like she's going to burst my energy there for a second. And then she retreats. She takes time, but it's not unachievable. It's just, what is your limit? Where can we get you to feel comfortable to share just that little bit more review? And it could be a picture of you from behind. That's still a massive step forward for an introvert sometimes. Who doesn't mind having a picture from behind? Write a bit of text over it. Simple little step, but actually that's a big step because that's actually still you. And then the more confident they get, that confidence builds. And then they'll probably start to track other introverts because they'll talk about being an introvert, maybe a few texts, but still getting results. Then another introvert gets closer. Well, I'm going to work with this introvert because I'm an introvert and I feel I relate to that person. It just really depends on who you're trying to attract and how you do it. I love that. And you know, the other thing also is I've always said this, I'm going to repeat this again, which is there is only opportunity to gain. Like when you actually post, is it, you have nothing to lose. You have no idea who's watching you. The amount of times I have had a message from somebody or a discovery call. In fact, I had a discovery call the other day and I actually said to the person, I've got to be honest with you, you've never messaged me. I've never seen your face before. I've never seen your name before. You booked in a discovery call with me and she actually admitted to me she goes yes you're absolutely right I have been lurking watching for about a year and I've never messaged you and I wanted to come and talk to you now and I was like great so you literally never ever know who is watching in a cool way like who is watching who who is listening and inspiring others like I actually think it would be wonderful to see somebody really introverted putting themselves out there to say hands up I'm not really into this you know I've got, let's just give it a go. Let's see how it works. And you never know that might inspire somebody else. I mean, I'd like to do a shout out actually to a person called Vicki Payne, who I know who is, you know, an introvert. She knows that she is. And we were trying to think to ourselves, you know, how could you get yourself out there in terms of what you really love? And she loves the data. So she loves property analytical data. So that's how she then came across on social media. She was analyzing deals. She was talking about when you're analysing a deal, these are the types of things to look for. So she found her little niche, if you like, and really then sort of drove into that. So there are ways in which, just think who you are, what you love to do, and Sarah's advice was great. Just take a photo, add some copy, put some words in, off you go. Yeah, and that's it. But everyone's got their zone of genius. Like we're not all perfect in every bit. Some of us take longer than us to learn stuff. I mean, I think for everyone listening, no matter where you're at your journey, do you not ever look back and think to yourself, wow, how have I got from here to here? Like, when did that happen? Like sometimes I think to myself, how did I even start this? Like literally sometimes I think, how did this even happen? I was in Bali, just sat with a laptop. I thought one day I'm just going to make a group. Made a group, didn't have many people in it. Obviously back then everyone, Facebook was a different kind of face. It was much more interesting and a lot bigger than what it is now. But it was like, oh yeah, yeah. And I always remember you wouldn't think it now, but this is what I mean. You grow into it. My first ever live makeup done to the nines. I don't know if you still put this on YouTube, but I have got mascara on for day for anyone listening, but 90 % of the time I am. seen you with a full face of makeup. I've never seen that. yeah well this is it i'm past those days now i'm just like i'm like she's not for me i can't be bothered i feel for it my sister she's every night loads of like taking her makeup off a cat bothered so but for me i remember i had a full face of makeup on didn't have a ring light they weren't really a thing then bright light pinkish lipstick and i was there pepping myself up like you can do this you can do this you can do this because again, remember I'm of the era where lives were new. They didn't have lives before it was just images. So I'm like, I'm going to get into it. I'm going to get into it. Press the live button stopped it. was like, Sarah, press the live button again. Did the intro, deleted it literally. And it was about four attempts and I kept telling a white lie. was like, Oh, I don't know what's wrong with my signal. I think it must be, you could hear. their voice like, like really shaking across and I'm there and I'm already a fast speaker everyone. So I apologize for being in the north and a fast talker, but this was like something else. I literally did this live. It was about four minutes and I probably spoke that fast. People were like, she needs to breathe. She just needs to take a breath, but I had to overcome that. And like now, I'll go live looking like anything, like people aren't actually bothered about what you look like. Sometimes, yeah, it helps. But when you've got that knowledge, they're not actually interested. They just want to know how to fix something or what's the solution. But you should all sit back and think, do you know what? I'm already proud of myself for starting. Like it takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there. And I think when I see other people, which it does happen, that will say things about people, I always remind myself, but at least I'm doing something. And it's not about me, it's about that person. At least I'm trying, or at least I'm trying to do something different to give me the life that I've envisioned. And I feel that if you are listening to this and you feel that maybe social media is an obstacle for you, or there's certain elements of your business that are struggling with, it doesn't change your driven path and to just take it step by step. I mean, I've only got here from years of figuring things out, really analyzing things to actually be able to support you listeners and Athena now to actually not a shortcut because there isn't such things as shortcut, but actually get the answers that are going to make it easier for you to shine for your personality. I just want everyone to be themselves. Like the world needs you and that's what's important. Let's just get that version of you out in a way that feels comfortable. Yeah, adore that, absolutely adore that. you know, none of this kind of like, we don't want to get it out, we don't have enough time, we're gonna work smarter rather than harder. And we're gonna understand the algorithm, and we're gonna understand exactly how to do that. Do you know what Sarah, I've just realized, because it's you, we've just been chatting away. The problem me and you have got is I'm really chatty and you're really chatty. So we've got two chatty people together, like always, always a thing. I didn't ask you at the beginning of this podcast what you were celebrating at the moment. So what are you celebrating? You know what? I'm actually just at a point where I'm celebrating, enjoying the journey. I know that might sound weird to some people, but even just then, talking to myself, which I always do, about reflection, I'm just celebrating the opportunity that I still have and do have, just inspiring others to want to be who they want to be. I mean, I think for many people, I'm still unsure. I do like to do my retreats, being the traveler, but some things just don't sit well. So do you know what? I'm celebrating for me. just grateful for my one-to-one clients. Like that's where I thrive. These conversations, Athena, as you can see, chatty. So same with my clients. I like just speaking to them, getting them rolling. I mean, I could celebrate that I've had another one set up from Australia this time. For those that don't know, most of my audience is American based. I think that's from Bali and my algorithm. I mean, it's still right for social media, but it attracts more Americans. But actually this time it's an Aussie. So. got another Aussie, they're always going to be nice, fun, late night calls. But do you know what? That was such a perfect example actually of something I wanted to say, which was if you weren't on social media and you were trying to sell your services, and let's just say it nothing to do with social media, let's just say you're trying to sell the services, there is only so far you can reach, right? There is no way that you can attract somebody all the way in Australia selling your services from the UK. It would be almost impossible. So the fact that you have put yourself out there in social media and just being you, and it's attracted this person on the bloody other side of the world is massive. And that's what social media can do for you as the listener is really getting you out there geographically to new heights. If it's a landlord, if it's an investor, if it's even somebody that you want to coach, you need to be getting out there. You really do. So massive celebration for you, Sarah. That's awesome. And it was your birthday recently. Yay. was, yes. Chapter 35 has begun. Yay! my god, you make me still feel younger. Sometimes I feel so old, like literally, people like, they're like 26, I'm like, my god, you're tiny. You know what, I still take credit though, like literally I do, honestly I'm very grateful, I will be honest, but I love it when I meet people and I tell them my age and I see their mouth drop. So I'm still taking it that I look about someone said to me, I thought he was about 27, 27, 27. I'm like, no, I wish I was. But then saying that to me age is just a number. We're getting wiser as we, and I'd have done so many things differently, if I'm honest, from starting eight years ago to now. in the things that I, like I said, showing up with loads of makeup on to try and mask, I don't know, confidence. I didn't really know what it was, but you do things in such a different way. And it actually took me a good couple of years to really step out to, out of perfection. I think even for me, I was trying at the beginning, maybe like some now to be like other people. was looking on Instagram and then I don't know, just as you grow, you change, which actually, Athena, I wanted to mention this because you said it was a good idea last week and I've got no shame in like sharing it. If you were to go on my Instagram right now, my main one, I've got many, but my main one, the Sarah Smell Scott one, I've not posted since October 2023. Like people are like, but well, where does your credibility come from? And well, how does that work when I wouldn't say this to someone that's new starting out, you do need to have things about you, but When you've got a system that works and you've got clients and some are from referrals, some are from like collaborations and different things that you're doing, it doesn't mean you have to constantly be visible because I am that busy now supporting others. Like even though it's not me necessarily editing, but if I'm teaching someone specifically how to edit a reel, that will still take me the same amount of time as it would do my own that my clients are more important to me that I'm like, who am I proving this to right now? Like If I was at a stage to where it's like, do need more clients. I do need to be doing more different things and yeah, I'd be sharing more. But when you're at a place where you actually don't have the time, that's also okay. Like don't be too harsh on yourself and think it should be a certain way. Don't get me wrong. I will be starting to repost because now I've got like LA is not on there, Athena. Can you believe it? Like that's not the third jet. Like there's so many different bits of content, but When you get to know me ladies, and I'm very much looking forward to those that join on the 6th, Athene will tell you I am a content warrior. My phone does not leave my hand. It is all documented. But for me, my own overwhelm comes in. I have got Morocco, LA, Italy, and most of these over the Morocco are work related at the minute, Wales. Different places I've been for work. I think there's a London one in there. yeah, the event me and you went to at December. And then there's also like my actual work of my client's results. I'm not updated that for a while. Sorry that I'm going on tangent here, but what I'm trying to say is that I've now got that much content that I do feel that overwhelmed. Like, well, where do I start now? Like where do I backtrack to say everyone, Hey, I've not been here for a year, but I have been here. So where do you start? And all you have to do is wherever you want. I could maybe start with a lay if I wanted to, I'll just share it. People don't ever remember like timestamps. I mean I could throw barley back up when that was from three years ago people would still think it's today. If you have a content, pictures or a reel that you think is a volume of interest just post it. All I need to do is edit it and then it will start to go out again. No one's here for timestamps that's just you sharing knowledge that needs to be out that people will understand and they'll take away and then be like hey welcome back how have you been? That's all it is. yeah, do you know, I completely agree with that. And I've been guilty of that before. I've sometimes spoken at events, for example, and I've been meaning to put them up in terms of posts and it's been like two weeks later and I've gone, that was two weeks ago. I'm not going to post it because it was two weeks ago. Why? Why shouldn't I post it? Cause it was two weeks ago. Who, who knows it was two weeks ago other than me? No, I'm going to post it. So I agree with you with timestamps. And then Sarah, just to finish off, if you were going to give like one great bit of advice, for the listener in terms of being like, right, this is where to start. This is what we're gonna really propel you in. What would you love to leave the listener with today in terms of that one bit of golden nugget in terms of behind the scenes matrix algorithm of Instagram? Honestly, and I it sounds weird, but it will all make sense for those that join us. Just naturally start for five minutes a day because without all the other knowledge, data is key. So just make sure to actively start to like and comment on business related stuff to you, people that you don't know on the explore page, because the golden nugget is behind that. And the saying goes, be social and socials. is you're already starting to rewire your algorithm because Instagram takes a like and a comment, more a comment, is more of a value point than anything else because you've taken the time to write it, that they collect that data and will start to show that to a similar audience or people that will find that comment worthwhile reading, they'll start to bump it up a little bit more. So you're already making that progress to tag incorrectly. And also off the back of that, what you don't realize, and I'm sure this may have happened to you Athena, but it has happened to me many times. When I've left a heartfelt comment, let's say, or something constructive, that's actually led in like DMs for me, where people have just sent me a message, been like, thank you so much for that comment that resonated or just thank you. Or they've asked if it's something about Instagram that they needed help with. Can you give me more information or do you have any resources? It's one simple thing. that no one likes to do anymore but has the biggest impact. It's just be social and socials. That's what it was built for. Fantastic advice, I love that. And also my bit of advice that I love to leave people with is if people do comment on your post and they do engage with it, first of all, amazing, you're doing something right, so congratulations. And two, comment back, be social, let it be a conversation because from an algorithm perspective, every single time that you then put comments in, basically Instagram will then shoot it to somebody else and somebody else will then view it. So somebody else will then like it and then more comments will come. and then the algorithm will take it up and up and up. So if you have people commenting, comment back would be my advice. Don't just like it, add a comment. Yeah, and that's it. And that's all going to fall in together with us in it. I didn't really get around to mentioning it that much, but I did want to mention it. But people are going to have to join us now. Spoiler alert. It's been awesome. Let's continue. Because you asked me a brilliant question, Athena, and you're like, Sarah, that's gold. It's also about your content, isn't it? Because Athena, you mentioned about reels and different things. Yeah, but your Instagram isn't built for that, really. Because you have content, which I said was your carousel post. your audience is quite well connected that they're engaging. So you've got a connecting audience for content, whereas Reels is more for expansion and getting to know a person. So I think that's something that you need to think about as well is what kind of content is my gold? Is it connecting content or consuming content? Because there's, and I'll be going through the three C's, there is another one. So that will come out. And then understanding that if that's the easiest way for you and it works, why change it? All we need to do is add a little tiny thing extra to start to get more reach. That's it. Yeah, I mean, there's so many things Sarah that like we didn't even touch on that, you know, I hope to do in the session and of course in the workshop, because there's this notion of, you know, how do we use stories effectively? And then how do we then compliment that with posts, for example, what is the difference between the stories and actually posting on the grid? Why would you do one one way? Why would you do one another way? There's so many different elements that we still haven't spoken about because let's face it, there's so much to it. So we've got to... We're gonna, number one is we've got the session that's gonna be happening. So it's gonna happen tomorrow night because we recorded this a week ago. So it's tomorrow night. Yeah, tomorrow night, Tuesday the first of August. And then we're gonna, my God, for goodness sake. my God, I'm as bad as you are. Tuesday, Tuesday the first of April, tomorrow guys. Yeah. 1st of April. So we are going to be speaking all about this and really delving deep into it and doing like a mini workshop online, 7.30 p.m. over in the Girls and Property community. Come and join us. And then Sarah is of course gonna be doing the in-person workshop, the 20 lucky, lucky ladies. And that is going to be happening on Friday, the 6th of June. So that's really exciting and tickets to the community are going to be going out for that one. next, probably next week actually, yeah next week. yay we did it, so really exciting. But just to finish off, the last thing I'd like to say to everyone is sort of the key takeaway is this. My podcast is a really good example of this actually. I remember when I was putting my podcast on YouTube and I would have obviously guests come on the podcast and all the guests always look glorious, really really glorious. Full face of makeup, beautiful hair. stunning in every way shape or form and i remember at the time the guy and he won't mind me saying this the guy that edited my podcast he me and him are good friends so it was all right for him to say this to me he's like he said to me he was he was like athena your girls are like really doled up and they come on the podcast they look amazing he's like you might want to look doled up as well he's like because it really stands out and i was like you know what no no Because I host it at 9.30 on a Monday morning and that is not what I'm doing. I've got a million other things to do. I'm going to come on as me and I'm going to press record and I am good enough turning up how I am. Whoever wants to turn up looking glamorous with a full face of makeup, that's their decision. But for me, I'm going to turn up as me and that is enough. And when I do my lives now, I will happily do it in whatever shape and form I am in at that moment because I believe Sarah that we have a responsibility. to others to give them their own, I mean this in the best way can say it, their own permission to be authentically them. And I think if we show up as us the way we are, it gives them permission to go, well, do know what? If they can do it, I can bloody do it. So I'm telling you now, you don't need a full face of makeup. You don't need to even do anything to your hair. You just need to show up as a great person with something of value to say. If you have something of value to say, everybody will listen. And I want that to be my parting words to you to remember today. So, yeah. Yeah, well my party notes, sorry, I don't mean to take your steam. I I know you're finishing up, but I just need to say it. You've seen me live in my house coat, as I call it, with the dressing gown. Me and my audience have a massive laugh. will in winter in England, they know the dressing gown's on and I have just not bothered. I'm dressed. I'm just like that. Sorry, ladies, the house coats are on. I know you feel me. And then you go into it. Just always be yourself. And it always, sorry. It a conversation, because I said to people, do you call it a house cut or a dressing gown? Literally, conversation and the amount of people that would just hone on that gets you more views, gets you the reach. I love that. And I take such inspiration from you today. You even did a story today where you had all the surfboards behind you. So I know Ben's really into surfing and you were just like, sorry, I've got all my surfboards behind me. I did one the other day where I did a behind the scenes of the room that I do the podcast in. And I showed it to be an absolute mess. I got so many, so many comments and messages. Thank you everyone who messaged me. Just to say like, me too, like thank you and showed me a picture of where they were working. And I was like, yes, exactly. You know, don't have to be perfect. We just have to get it done. So Sarah, I could talk to you for hours. I really, really could. But thank you so much for coming on. I'm sure loads of people are going to want to find you and speak to you before tomorrow night's session and obviously June. So what's the best way for people to connect with you? Well, there's also Instagram as we know, we've spoke about it for the DMs, but there will also be posts as well within your community, Athena. So anyone that is in the community or is joining the community, you can direct message, because it's a few ladies, you can message me in there if you're a part of it, or just come over to Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. It's the same name across them all, just Sarah Smell Scott. And yeah, just reach out, my DMs are always open. Yeah, brilliant. I love that. Thank you. And as always, I am Athena Dobson, underscore official on Instagram, girls and property on Instagram. Um, and we'll see you tomorrow night, Tuesday, the first of April at 7 30 PM. Um, and then the 6th of June as well. And in between that, of course, in between all of those exciting things, I've also got the girls and property retreat on Friday, 25th of April. Sarah is going to be there. So if you'd like to meet Sarah in person, yay, Sarah's going to be there. Um, You haven't been to one of my events before, have you? you're in fri... Well, you're in Frisbee. I can't wait to show you it. I really am so excited. So yes, thank you everyone for listening. I hope it really helps and definitely listen to both the episodes on social media because they're both so different in such different ways. So check out both of them. And honestly, if you use both of those learnings from each episode, you will be in the best possible position you can to now go forward. to really work smart and not harder and be the best influencer in the best possible sense that you can possibly be. So enjoy your week everybody. Let me know where you're listening from. Have a fabulous time and I'll see you soon. Thanks guys, bye.