Why 'Men in Property' Matters: A Conversation with Jonny Brown

In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson sits down with Jonny Brown, founder of Men in Property, for an open and insightful conversation about mental health, entrepreneurship, and the importance of community within the property industry. Jonny speaks candidly about his personal experiences, including living with ADHD and the challenges he’s faced with mental health, sharing how these struggles inspired him to create a space where men in the sector could feel seen, supported, and understood.

Athena and Jonny delve into the wider conversation around inclusivity, reflecting on how vital it is for both men and women in property to support one another. They explore the motivations behind the Men in Property initiative, the varied responses it has received, and the critical role it plays in encouraging honest dialogue around men’s wellbeing—especially in a traditionally male-dominated environment where vulnerability is often stigmatised.

The episode also looks at the impact of social media on self-image, the pressure it places on professionals, and why having real, meaningful connections within the industry matters now more than ever. Through their discussion, Jonny highlights the value of collaboration, community, and challenging stereotypes, ultimately leaving listeners with a heartfelt message: check in on your mates, be kind, and never underestimate the power of support.

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to another episode of the Girls in Property podcast. My goodness, how is everybody today? I don't know about you lot, but I feel like it's been very sort of like up and down and up and down recently. I don't know if other people are experiencing that, but to be honest with it seems to be very much in line with the weather as well. One day it's glorious sunshine, one day it's raining, one day it's glorious sunshine. And so the mood really shifts with that, but... It's an interesting one actually, because I've been speaking to a few people at the moment and they've been saying about these different shifts that they're happening for themselves. And I'm like, yes, I completely relate. So if you are having those own shifts for yourself, just know we are all here and hope that this week is going to be the most fabulous week for everybody. DM me as always, whatever you're up to and tell me where you're tuning in from. So today I have been waiting to get this person on the podcast. because I'm very, very interested actually to hear what he has to say, to be honest with you. This particular person, we haven't actually met too much before. So doing this podcast is gonna be really interesting because I feel like we're gonna get to know each other live on the podcast as well, which is always my favorite. So without further ado, I would love to introduce Johnny Brown. Hey, Johnny. I'm really well, how are you? I'm good. Thank you. I'm Good. And the reason I wanted to of course get you on is because you have just started or have started, should say, men in property, haven't you? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well, we set up in, I actually set the group up in February last year. So we're just over a year going now, which is absolutely fantastic. And we've gone from, I think initially we had three members and we now have 150 members, which. Wow, from three to 150. That's mad, that is mad. Okay, I want to hear the whole story, like the whole story. We're gonna get into it because I think also it's such an amazing thing. Like I know Johnny as well more than anybody else how difficult it is first of all to start something, but then to actually keep it going as well. And the reasons why you keep it going. Like I have all people really, really understand that and how tough it is when you've also got. everything else going on. So I can't wait to learn more about it and all the reasons. But before we delve straight into it, first of all, because I would love to know as well as the listeners, can you first introduce yourself, tell everybody a bit about you, your background, who you are, maybe something really interesting about you, and then we'll just let the conversation flow from there. Yeah, so I'm Johnny Brown. I used to be an estate agent. I then set up my own professional property photography business that took off massively. That took off a lot quicker than I expected, to be fair. That's now just approaching a six-figure business. I then started the, oh, what was I gonna say? Sorry. This is probably a good time for me to say that I have got ADHD and my brain freezes every now and then. So I have wrote a few notes down. Yeah, so I was, I started the photography business. That went really well. I then set up the investment business. So I know we've spoken in the past about rent to rent. We set up a rent to rent business, which I'm sure we'll get into a little bit about later. And then most recently, I've actually set up an estate agency as well. So I am quite a busy guy. So yeah, so setting up the men in property group as a busy guy was quite difficult. But I saw. I saw groups like yours, like Girls in Property, Her Property Tribe, and I just didn't see any groups out there for men at all. So I just wanted to make a difference and it's something that's very close to my heart. So I just felt like I was probably the right guy to do it. It might be quite selfish of me to, or big headed of me to think that, but yeah, I just thought I was the guy to do it. So yeah, that's me. So first of all, I just want to say, I think it's incredibly brave of you to also come on this podcast because I know for a fact that a lot of listeners out there also have ADHD and those who are probably nodding along right now listening to this. And do know what, Jonny, what's great about you is you're showing that you don't have to be perfect to choose to actually say yes to something. You said yes to this podcast, knowing that, okay, I might not get every single word out in the correct way, but this is an opportunity that I'm going to say yes to. Like how many people do we know that that would allow things such as ADHD or knowing that you might not be perfect actually hold you back. And that's the biggest, I think, problem that people have. They need to kind of overcome that. And you have done that in the way they're thinking, actually, I'm gonna do all of these things. Like what you've just said in terms of what you do is incredible. You're like, I do this, I do this. By the way, did not know that you were a property photographer, but can totally see that actually. You have that look. No thanks, yeah yeah. You have the photographers look like I can imagine you being like very creative is what I mean very creative very like Detail orientated but with the imagery I can really see that so that's brilliant And then you I understand you what you're saying and I don't think it's big-headed at all when you say things like I saw that actually we needed a space and I thought to myself I needed to be the person to create that I actually think that just shows you as a person to go I know I can do this like what's big-headed about that? Yeah, I think to be fair, the reason why I thought that I was probably the best guy to do it was I'm very open about my mental health on social media. I talk about it a lot. When I was on different medications, I used to talk about the medications that I was taking, therapy that I used to go to. So to rewind a little bit, wow, a little bit, 10 years ago, actually. almost 10 years ago, my best friend actually took his own life and I struggled really, really bad with it. I was diagnosed with PTSD, depression, anxiety, like I said, trying different therapies, different medications. You go to doctors and they just want to give you one medication after another as though that's the answer. So yeah, I felt like because I was the guy, I portrayed myself on social media as the guy wanting to open up about mental health because I wanted other people to open up about mental health. I felt I wanted to do it in Tom's memory that I could maybe help other people because obviously I didn't help him. I wanted to be able to help. other people. It was obviously too late for him, but I wanted to just make sure that I could make a difference somewhere. Even if just one person saw one of my posts that I put out there and just decided like, oh yeah, life is actually worth living. Then I was more than happy with that. And I'd be more than happy with that if when I get to the end that I know that I changed at least one person's life. And by setting up men in proper air. I just thought that this is something that needs to be done. I was going around the UK speaking at property events. When I was speaking at these events, I was just seeing so many guys who had nowhere to turn. I'm one of these guys who people do talk to me a lot. I'm honest, I say exactly how it is. So I think... people feel that they can open up with me. So when I'd be talking to people maybe after I'd done my speech and things like that, I remember in particular one guy coming and we actually went outside and we were having a chat and he said that he'd been in a really, really bad place last year because he'd borrowed... I think it was like half a million pounds from an angel investor. And the whole deal had just gone bad from start to finish. And he just had nowhere to turn. All his friends group did nothing improper. They had no idea about anything. He literally felt isolated. He had no one to turn to. So that was kind of for me like a bit of a light bulb moment where I like, well... There's women groups out there that support other women How are there not groups out there for men? And I think a lot of people kind of had the like toxic masculinity idea of if a man sets up a group It's gonna be a masculine group and it's gonna just be men and I know I joke quite a lot when I tell people I like that it's gonna be like Andrew Tate and we're all sat around smoking cigars and talking about women and honestly, it couldn't be any further from that. It's literally men supporting men and every single one and I'm so proud of this. Every single one of the members in the group supports one another. even if it's down to the smallest thing of does anybody know a plumber? Do you know what mean? Like they'll support each other like that. But then On the flip side, they'll also support each other when because they know that they can say in the group whether they're feeling down at the minute or if something's just not right or they just did they just feel like they need a little bit more support. Honestly, when I when I go through like the WhatsApp groups, the Facebook groups, the online stuff and I just I just I'll go through every now and then and just see people just literally supporting each other. And for me, When it first started, it was kind of me supporting everybody. I kind of had to get it all up and running and get everybody supporting everybody. Now I'm so blessed. I've also got two amazing ambassadors for the group, Rob and Anvar. They absolutely smash it. One of the things that I struggled with was kind of letting it go a little bit and finding someone who had the same vision for the group as me. I, yeah, when Rob and Anvar came on board and the support that they give the guys in the group as well is absolutely amazing. I couldn't ask for now a better team. Like we've got a team now and everybody supports everybody. Everybody encourages everybody. It's just something that I felt that was just needed to be there. You didn't necessarily need to use it all the time. It just needed to exist. So I just started it. I just made it exist. I just brought it into existence. And now it is its own entity. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I love the story of it. I love you being open and honest and saying why you felt that you were the right person. And Johnny, quite frankly, this is why I knew I wanted to get you on the podcast. Like I was fascinated to know, I wanted to know about this group that people were talking about called Men in Property. I was like, I want to know who set this up and why they felt the need to set it up. And this is what this podcast is all about. Before I kind of go into the depths of it because I've got so many questions around it that I want to talk to you about First of all, what would you say at this moment in time that you were celebrating? Because as part of Girls and Property, I always love this podcast to always be about also celebration and it could be anything, literally anything personal, professional, what are you celebrating at the moment? Yeah, well yesterday I was celebrating my wife's birthday We went to Damon's in Lincoln Oh You're really down south aren't It's like an American style restaurant, but Yeah, yeah, well they used to be one where I am in Sheffield So it was quite nostalgic to be able to go to Lincoln to one that looks exactly the same as the one that used to be in Sheffield. Yeah, so yeah, so that was good. I think as well, like I know when he says celebrating, I feel like I'm celebrating that I've kind of, I've reached a point of where I feel that contentment is the goal now. So I used to think that it were all about becoming rich and getting everything you want and And that's what happiness like, if you got enough money in bank, you could buy happiness. Whereas now I'm kind of celebrating like the contentment, the time, the time I get to spend with my family. I've got three kids, my wife, the time, like that's not monetary. It don't matter. I know everything's relevant to each other. You've got to make some money so you can have the time with your family. But I'm really, I am celebrating recently sort of like an epiphany of I now realize that it's not all about the money. It's about spending the time with my family. And like I say, yesterday were amazing. I literally turned my phone off all day, just spent it with Lauren and kids and yeah, it was fantastic. to know, I love that and it's so interesting, isn't it? Because I think that all business owners go through the same thing and I've been through it myself where let's face it, when you become a business owner, you know, it has to be about, right, we need to make money, we've got to do this because otherwise no money is ever gonna be made. We have to make the money. So that has to be at the forefront of our mind and be like, right, go, go, go, go, go, push, push, push, push, push. But I know what you mean. There comes a point where almost this... I don't know how to describe it, like this light comes on in our brains and it goes, actually, do I want to keep pushing for that? Do I want to have that? Or do I have enough right now that I can actually be content, I can go to the diner, I can spend the day with my wife, my husband, like whatever it may be, and actually just be really happy in that and money doesn't need to buy that. So for me, like I'm going through that at the moment where... I definitely have been pushing for so long. I've literally just been like, go, go, go, go, go. And to be fair, the listeners who know me really, really well are like, Athena, we know you, we know you're still pushing. Because I do, that's my personality. I'm always like, idea, go, idea, implementation, that's just who I am. But there actually is an element where I also go, hmm. I might take next Wednesday off to go and see my best friend. I might take next Tuesday off, you know, and to me that's a massive deal. To take time off away from my desk, guilt free is a huge thing. Like to genuinely actually switch off and be guilt free is a massive thing. So I think contentment is a huge thing to celebrate. I love that. And I love that you had that time and could just be there. Also, you've got three kids, like wow. Yeah. That's huge. Do you know, I always find that when I meet people who have three children, they're like a different type of person. Yeah, six, 12 and 15. Wow, oh my god, that six, 12, and 15, they're all so, I mean, the 15 and the 12 year old, that's quite, you know, but the six year old, it's like, wow, big gap. And so you're like, right, how are we gonna manage to make all of them happy at the same time and interest all of them? Oh. yeah, it's fun. It's definitely fun. But obviously it comes with its added pressures. Obviously, I'm literally like the only breadwinner in the house. So everything falls on me kind of thing. When I said that though, my wife, honestly, I couldn't do it without her. She literally, she supports me so much. It's silly to be fair. Like I literally come up with ideas. I execute ideas, I run with ideas and she literally, she's just behind me, just yeah, let's do it, let's go. And she's always the one I give me on, like to do better or when it does get rough and she can see that I'm at my desk with my head in my hands and I've literally like had enough. She just kind of reminds me why we're doing this, like why, what it's all about, why I started really. Like when I actually, because I literally, when I started, I literally quit my job and we had nothing. So I remember quitting my job and I remember the phone call when I called her and told her that I'd quit and the buildup to the phone call, I was petrified. I was so worried. Like, what do you tell your wife that you've just quit your job? Like the only money that were coming in. And I've quit with no idea of what I was going to do next. But she was so supportive. literally said she said she could see that the job was making me unhappy and mentally like say, funnily enough, three months after I quit my job, I came off antidepressants. So three months into starting my own business, it was a bit of a mix of actually. felt that I needed to come off the antidepressants to be my best self, if you get that. I don't know if you've ever been on antidepressants or anything, but you don't function as well as what you would, you're kind of just coaxed along. So you're never happy, but you're never sad. You're kind of just existing. It's quite a difficult thing to explain if you've never been on them. I felt that, especially with how busy the businesses were starting to get, that I just needed to, I needed to kind of break through that. I found I was getting tired a lot when I was on them as well. and like I said, because it was the photography business as well, I felt like my creativeness weren't as good as what it could have been. So yeah, so kind of weaned my way off. off the antidepressants and yeah, and then I've never been back on them since. That's two and a half years ago now. Wow, huge, huge kudos to you, Johnny. Huge. Like that's amazing and for being so open and so honest about it encourages others to do the same. And you know what I love about this podcast and I adore this podcast for these reasons. I have lots of different types of conversations on this podcast. I'll get conversations where it's predominantly just to teach people. So I'll be like, right. This podcast is all about learning about land. This podcast is all about learning about social housing. This podcast is learning all about commercial conversions. Fine. Educational value. Beautiful. But ever so often I'll also just put in these types of podcasts, which are podcasts where two people are having a real conversation about real shit, dare I say. Um, yes, I swore Johnny. and you know, you're doing well, you're doing well, but it's true. Like at the end of the day, it's like, This is real life. This is real conversation. And I think this, dare I say, is what differentiates this podcast. It is a no, no bars held like that. And actually I'm going to celebrate this a second because one of my celebrations, and I think that you're the perfect person celebrate this with, about when this podcast comes out, it will be about, I'd say three weeks ago that I released an episode on imposter syndrome. And I invited a person called Aqsa Khan onto the podcast and we talked all about mental prisms. We talked all about imposter syndrome and he actually basically psychoanalyzed me live on air on the podcast. And there was one section where he just, he went really, really deep with me, back to my childhood and back to everything. And it cut me. Like it really, it went through my soul basically. And I broke down on the podcast. And I released it. I released it to the world because I was like, do you know what? This is important because somebody must be feeling the same way. Somebody must hear me. Somebody must that. Johnny, my God, the messages, the voice notes, the cards, like the amount of love that I got for my episode on that podcast was insane because people are like, thank you for being authentically you. Thank you for showing up as you. it's enabled me to do the same. Your experience that you had growing up is the exact same experience I had. What happened to you 18 months ago, it's exactly the same thing that happened to me. And it allows people to just come up and be like, oh my God, me too. Like me too, you know? And that is what I think is so powerful. So my celebration is celebrating all you listeners, sending me the most gorgeous, gorgeous messages. I love each and every one of you. Just know that. And I'm sending you all the most massive hugs. But I'm celebrating this idea that we have a choice, Johnny, we have a choice to be like who we want to be and what we want our voices to represent and what we want our legacies to be and for your friend. And like, I think that's a massive celebration, you know, and we have that choice to make and to lead. And it's almost like it goes beyond now. I talked about somebody the other day about this when we speaking about purpose and they were like, Athena, what do you think your purpose is? And I'm like, I think a purpose is something that You can never get out of your head. It's a conversation that happens over and over again where you're literally like, this is who I am, this is where I'm meant to be. And for me, I know that it's to give every single person, not just women, every single person, a voice to step forward to go, you are enough. Like that's what I want to give them. I want to be like, you go, you do your thing. Like don't let anyone ever bring you down. And like for me, that's who I am. Like property is a vehicle, property was a vehicle that got me to the dance. But going forward, I'm like, nah, that's actually who I am. That's what I want to represent. So I think that's quite strong, you know? Yeah, I think a lot of the issues we have these days, I know people go around it all the time, they talk about it all the time, but social media has such a negative impact on people. The mindset of people and what they actually see and what they actually believe. So when people are faking it till they make it, and the posting all over social media how well they're posting especially in the property business when you're seeing these people who never done a deal in their life never done any education never done anything and suddenly they're in with all the big wigs they're looking around properties they're looking like they're doing really well they're driving in the mates Lamborghini they're looking like everything's Amazing for them that they're going on holidays all the time telling you how easy it is that oh look at me I'm at this last month and and and There are really people out there who can't differentiate between what when someone's been truthful and someone's lying so In their mind they instantly project that onto themselves and think that they're a failure because they think that Especially sometimes if it's someone younger and you think you think well I've failed if someone that young can do do that and Off at time you're in you're ahead of them you you're much further ahead of them. I speak to people at property events all time and They tell me oh, they'll come to me and say I've only got I've only got three properties and I will I are they rent to rent and like no, no, I only own three. And I'm like, well, you're doing better than like half the people in this room. Probably more, you're probably doing better than 80 % of people in that room. But in their mind, they're seeing people who are portraying that they're doing 100 deals a month and buying 100 properties a month. And so they then feel like having three properties that are making a monthly income. and making capital growth, they think that that's a failure. That's an absolute win, even one. Like if you've bought one, do know what mean? They think that that's a failure, but it's not. It's just people comparing themselves to others. And I know they said that comparison's the thief of joy, and it really, really is. Mm-hmm. I agree. I I agree and I could talk about social media all day long I know obviously I know that it can have such a positive influence as well It really really can and the amount of connections I have made through social media for example, know, then our friends for life like it's been incredible But at the same time, I know the dark side to social media as well and I think it's about how you consume it and how you how you It's never about comparison, it's always about inspiration. That's what I always say. I always say, you know, pick people that inspire you, don't compare yourself. Everyone is on their own journey. Everyone is at their own level. Everyone has different resources available, all of that. But Johnny, before I go sort of into that, I want to kind of come back to the beginning of men in property, as it were. So what I'd love to do is I'd love to really ask you about this. So. Obviously, this is a really interesting one for me. So when I set up girls and property the reason I set up girls and property was because I went to Well, actually I'll tell you why I set up girls and property. So the story goes I went to my first ever networking event and in that networking event there was about 45 people in the room and only three were women within that room Now I'm quite a confident person naturally, so I'm quite fortunate within that and I was like right Athena. Come on. You're okay. This is fine And I remember I tried to get into these little groups, like these little cliquey groups of men. This was about three years ago, by the way. This wasn't recent, it's about three years ago. And they were all kind of like drinking, they were all quite like loudish, they were all making like their own sort of manly jokes, they were all sort of making some inappropriate jokes in some instances. And I just felt like I had no... like no belonging there. There was nothing for me. Nobody was interested in what I had to say. I didn't feel seen. I didn't feel heard. I didn't feel supported. Nothing like that. And then I remember I literally latched onto this girl, bless her, called Claire, like a koala. And she looked at me like I was crazy. And I thought, my God, like there's this only girl in the room. Like the other girl looked terrified. I thought I'm not even gonna go talk to her. Like bless her. I'll probably, you know, send her packing. So Claire, I thought would be all right. And so we sort of got chatting and things and I thought to myself, God, do you know what? Just for now, I feel more confident speaking predominantly to women for whatever psychoanalyzing that was, for whatever way that made me feel. I thought, actually, I think I just want to get to know other women at this moment in time. I researched it and at the time there was absolutely no female property groups for women, like none. No property tribe, no nothing at this time. And so I was like, my God, okay, this doesn't exist. The only ones that existed actually were in New Zealand. There was like female invest, was the two New Zealand girls and I was like, well, that can't be right. And so I got talking to one of my best friends and we were like, do you know what, why don't we start a podcast for women so that we can educate them, we can talk to them about our stories, everything like that and so the podcast was the first thing that was ever made for Girls in Property because it was literally us coming on, no guests, it was just us talking about our own experiences, our own journeys and then it kind of went from there where then we decided to put on an event because so many people came forward, we put on our first event and now four years later in four events later I'm now putting on my fourth event in April. And obviously I've got my community where I bring in my community as well and I do that. So it was something that was necessary within my industry because we can be made to feel like not comfortable. it just was one of those things where it just didn't feel like we connected or they didn't take us seriously. And what's lovely to know is that I know for a fact, Johnny, and I know this for a fact that times since then have changed. And I know that, and I know that there are more amazing groups now that are coming forward for women, for men, like yourself. However, I will say this, I had a conversation the other day with somebody very close to me, and we were actually at a female networking event, but she had been to a networking event two days prior to that, and I won't say what it was, because I think that hopefully things might change going forward, but she walked in and she said to me, Athena, you'll never guess what happened, and this was two days ago, she goes, you'll never guess what happened. She says, I went in and she says, I counted it, 40 men, two women. I went, no way, you're joking. Still, she went, yep. And she says, then I worked out why. She says, I worked out why. Because she went and spoke to different groups within this two days ago, Johnny, right? And she says, they literally cut her up speaking. She's an interior designer. She does staging, right? You're in a group full of men, yeah. They literally cut her off speaking. and like over spoke her and she was like, I was literally just speaking and they just cut her up. So she then changed tactics and she then went and spoke to a different group of the guys and she played more dams and in distress. She was like, she's I'm gonna change this up and see what happens. Cause she's fabulous. So she was like, Oh, you know, I need some help and you know, dams and distress and all of this. Oh, suddenly the guys want to have a conversation with her. The guys want to be interested in what she has to say. And it's like, funny that. Strong women, nah, not interested, we'll cut you right up. Damned in distress, yeah, we'll come and talk to you. She then spoke to the organizer of the event and was one saying to him, I'd love to come and speak at your event. He never replied to her, didn't even acknowledge it, nothing, just completely ignored her. So the reason for me, I'm so passionate about this, Jonny, as much as you're passionate about men in property. I'm so passionate about why girls and property exists because in this industry there is still a need for women in this industry massively because it's still happening to this day. Yes, things are moving forward, but it's still happening. You know, another one of my community girls about to sign papers for an, with an investor a week ago, a week and a half ago, and they were like, let's just wait for your husband to arrive. Let's just wait for your husband to go through all this. Yeah. And this is not spoken about enough. This actually is happening. So I know why I therefore set up Girls and Property and I know why that was so rife for me and I just want to make sure that I repeat and I say that again because it's so relevant. However, I'm going to pause and also say that if there's one thing I've learned, Jonny, within this industry and this world is it is not just about women over here and men over here. It isn't actually about that. It's about you can have good people and you can have bad people. And actually it's about coming together and it's actually about understanding one another to kind of be like, well, why can't we just do that and be together? So from a men in property perspective then, because a lot of listeners, Johnny will be thinking men in property, why do we need a men in property? Why do we need that within such a male dominated industry? Johnny tell us, why do we need men in property? Yeah, I'll be honest with you I've I've from I don't know if it's just quite a blessing for me and I've done a lot of networking so anybody who follows me on social media know I've been to a lot of networking events I I I've never noticed it being as dominant as that I Don't know if it must just fell quite lucky that the events I've been to have just been so progressive that It's just, they're not like that. And I'll be honest with you, I deal with, I do work with a lot of women as well. I'm surrounded by women all the time. So, and I work with a lot of women investors as well. But yeah, the reason it's probably needed, like I said, well, the reason, like I said, that men in property, I felt was needed was that not all men should be tarnished like that. there are, like you say, There's people out there who are willing to support each other. Don't matter what race you are, what sexuality you are. It really don't make a difference. And I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't turn a deal down because it's a woman or I would not speak to someone at an event because it's a woman, because it's a man. Literally, yeah. I think I must have just always had the pleasure of being at events that are very equal and I'll be honest with you, I've been to events where it's mostly women. So yeah, I think it's something that is a problem, but I think that it's a problem amongst a few events, a few network providers. I don't think that they're not all like that, I know for a fact. I know for a fact. And there's quite a few construction events out there as well, property construction events that again, they're very equal. And you'd think that that was a quite male dominant role as well, but it's not. It's men and women aligned. And I think as well, especially in the construction industry, a lot of people instantly just think that that's for men. But again, I see events all around the UK. that are for men and women in the construction industry. yeah, not to put me on the spot of, but yeah. No, I love that. me ask you a slightly different question. So when you set up men in property, for example, what did the, what did guys think about it? What did men think about it in terms of you setting up men in property? Yeah, so before I set men in property up I did put the feelers out to see what people thought and men said it won't I actually got a better reaction from women than I did men. So a lot of the women were really supportive of it. I was getting messages saying yeah, it's definitely something that was needed. The men were just responding saying that women won't understand. They won't get it. They won't understand. You'll get a lot of shit from it. you'll get people tearing it down, they'll shut it down, they'll tell you you can't do it. I'm at a point in my life where, well I was at a point, I still am, where I don't really care what other people think. If I truly believe that something is needed, I'll go ahead and do it. And I really do think that it was needed. There's a lot of men out there who don't talk enough, they literally don't share enough. They feel like they've got to be the manly man. They're the one in control. They've got it all sorted. They'll just build it all up in their head and hold on to it. And they'll never speak it out. But sharing, honestly, sharing it with people, just sharing it amongst people you know you can trust, you build trust with, you know that you can say things that you couldn't say to your wife or your partner. you can share them in the group and the magnificent thing about that is once you speak it out and you realise that there's 150 other people who's been through the exact same thing it's kind of reassuring and it really does make you feel a little bit better it grounds you a little bit more I know that even me personally I still have bad days where my anxiety might flare up, I'll struggle. I get up at three o'clock in the morning and I'm having a panic attack because I've got so many different things going on and I'm like, oh my God, if I don't write a thing for my family, like I'm literally risking everything every day. And I just, I know now that I can just message in the group and I know that I'm gonna get that support back. I'm not out there, I'm not putting in the group for sympathy. I'm just putting in the group because I know that I'm not the only one struggling. So when I... Yeah. they, they must see you as the person who founded this. And so they're like, do you know what? Like Johnny, this is going to happen as the founder. They're going to think, do you know what? If, if they are going to compare, they're to go off Johnny feels that way. Like it's okay that I feel that way too. Look at Johnny go, but actually he feels it. Like they're naturally going to think that for you. Yeah. problem. And again, I think that's probably another massive issue to do with social media that we literally don't see each other as the honest, raw people that we are. We just see this however you're portrayed on social media, which isn't who people genuinely are, which is why I try to keep myself as honest as I can. Yeah, I see that. I see that, which is why I wanted to get you on the podcast as well, because I always want to try and invite people on this podcast who I think have a really important message to give and an important message for everyone, because I'll tell you another thing, Jonny, and I don't know if you have this with men in property. So with this podcast, for example, I get a lot of guys that listen to this podcast. Don't know why that would surprise me. I don't know because the podcast is fantastic. Yeah. But, dare I say, but I get a lot of guys that listen to this and I know and shout out to all the guys that are listening that are gonna be listening to this and go, oh, do you know what? Go Johnny, like I'm so grateful and hopefully they come to Men in Property as well. I want them to because I think that... I will always come back to this notion of, me, because of course I get backlash with girls and property, Johnny, right, from all directions. And what I always say to the guys is, I always say to them, it actually has nothing to do with you. The fact that you even think it has anything to do with you shows how egotistical you actually are. It's to do with female empowerment. It's to do with giving women a voice and giving women a space. to shine, right? That's what it's to do with. And with yours, the fact that men even tried to tell you that this wouldn't work screams volumes. It really does. And the fact that you were like, no, it's gonna work. And when you started as three, and quite frankly, Johnny, when you started as three, I've got no doubt that probably went, told you it wasn't gonna work. And with that three, you probably thought, oh, do you know what? This isn't worth it. This isn't worth it. But now look at you, you're at 150. Like, that's amazing. And like, just out curiosity. So I have my way of working things with girls and property. So how does Men in Property work? Like, let's say that people wanted to get involved with it, they're listening to this podcast or know about it. What is Men in Property? Yeah, so we've got Facebook group. We've got a WhatsApp group. There's a lot of chat goes on in the WhatsApp group. It's not your typical property WhatsApp group. It's not deal sourcer, deal sourcer, deal sourcer, like every other WhatsApp group out there. We literally don't allow any of that. Nothing talking about finances or anything like that. Yeah, so they can join the WhatsApp group. They can join the Facebook group. So the first. Obviously, currently it is only in South Yorkshire. But I'm in talks with three people around the UK who want to become ambassadors in different areas. So it is going to expand. But for now, it's just in South Yorkshire because that's just as far as I can reach. I can't stretch myself too far. know the exact feeling. People have been trying to get girls and property up north and I'm like, well, I'm only one person at the moment. They're with me. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, so it's, gonna branch out. We're gonna, I told you, I told you my ADS did kick in. Do you have, so when you say that you're online, you've got your WhatsApp and you've your Facebook, do you also do in-person meetups then in South Yorkshire? Yeah, we do. That's what we're going to say next. Thanks for the pointer. Yeah, so yeah, so in Yorkshire. So we have a breakfast meeting the first Friday of the month. this year, we started doing an online event at the end of every month with a guest speaker. So the guest speaker can be male or female as well. It's anybody who will bring value to the group. So we add. We had Rebecca Alcock on last month. I don't know if anybody knows Rebecca. So yeah, it's literally I'll find people out there who I've befriended as well from doing a lot of events and literally just ask if they can bring some value to the men in property. Anything like say we've done, we have done like the commercial to Rezay, we've done HMO, things like that. So it is a little bit of education into property investing as well. But the main basis of it is that it's something that's there to support each other. We were doing in-person events like a night out as well every month. But I got really busy. I say, this year I set up my estate agency. We've just sold this first property as well, by the way. buzzing about that. So yeah, that's been pretty busy. So running three businesses, a support group and three kids and a wife. I probably have about 30 seconds left today usually. Yeah, and that's important to say, like it's really important. Like at the end of the day, you're only human, Johnny. There is only so much you can do and what you're doing is all about mental health. And if actually what you're trying to set up affects your mental health, but what you're trying to do, it's almost counterproductive. absolutely. And you've just, you've done it perfectly. You've said, look, I've got ambassadors on board. I've got people to help me. know, speak. One thing I always do is I always speak to my girls in the community and I'm like, what is it that you want? What is it that I can give to you? Okay, I need to go and work out how I'm going to do this. I'll come back to you. And they're brilliant. They always help me to then work out what the best way to go forward is because like, Johnny, you'll know this, like it is a sense of responsibility, isn't it? Like we've made this decision. We're stepping out and we're putting ourselves almost on the chopping block. But at the same time, we know, don't we, that we have so many people behind us cheering us on, going, this is needed in the industries. And I wholeheartedly believe, and I really do. And it's an interesting one, actually. I mentioned to some people, I said, I'm getting on Johnny, they went, well, who's Johnny? And I went, I'm gonna be speaking to him about the fact that he created something called Men in Property. And they said to me, they were like, why would you do that? And I went, exactly. Haha let me get him on and let's have a chat because it's important. It's important and what you've actually shown today, which I've always known but I think it's important we all say is We're all human beings men are not most of the time Men are not just like numb and don't have emotion like men have emotion too And if we've learned anything my god, if we've anything in society, it's to be kind always and actually looking at the sadness of, of, you know, men, mental health. Um, you know, it's really changed for men as well over the years, hasn't it? Like from a psychological aspect of, you know, needing to be the provider, needing to turn up, needing to be like always okay and supporting everybody else. It's like, actually men also have a lot of their own going through in their own thoughts. Um, and feelings in that way and I know that the other thing is, Roni, I just want to say you probably don't see these other things happening with the industry because you probably turn up as authentically you and you attract good people that come to you, right? So if you stand there as a good person, you're always going to have that. But just know, just ever so often, just look to the side and just see what else is happening in the industry, which I'm sure you're aware of because there are... There are good people, there are bad people, there's all sorts. It's unregulated. We spoke about this. whole thing is unregulated. Like we know what's going on, but as long as we can be the voices and bring people forward that we want to see, that's the main thing. And I'll tell you the thing that stood out to me the most where my light bulb moment happened for me in terms of thinking to myself, actually, I think men do need a voice in this industry as well. My light bulb moments when I was speaking on a panel. at Paul and Danielle's Manchester event. And we were just chatting, it was me, Paul and Sean Davis on the panel. And for some reason, I don't know how it came up, but it's one of my favorite things to talk about, because it's just truth, is burnout. And so I was talking about my experience of burnout. And funny enough, we went to a question time and one guy stood up, young guy. I don't know how old he was, I'm still in contact with him, I reckon he's about 24. So, you know. And he stood up and he said, Athena, I just want to say thank you for sharing that. He says, I nearly didn't come to this event tonight because I'm currently going through burnout. But I'm so glad that I came, I met you and I hope to have conversations with you going forward about this so you can help me. And then they almost tried to like skip past it and they're like, right, next question. I was like, no, no, no, Hold on, let's have this conversation. You've just made an excellent point. You're this young guy, stand up, tell your truth, talk. Anyway, so he did that. We then had this conversation. And then the guy who was sat three next to him then put his hand up. I went, you know what, can I just say like thank you so much to, I don't want to say his name just in case he doesn't want me to say it, thank you so much to this person for speaking up. I actually feel that way too. And these were these guys that then went on to then connect afterwards. And I'll be honest with you, Johnny, like I had no idea that I was gonna then attract guys to then come and talk to me. I'm girls and property. And so for me, that was a light bulb moment for me where I went, you know what, Athena, actually, it's not about girls and it's not about guys. It's about people. Yeah. and I think that's the key thing I want to say in this everyone needs support everybody needs help and it can just all be a wonderful place to be I think good can happen Yeah. I think, like I say, my main thing was that I just saw so many groups for women, so many. And I know, like you said, when you first started out, there just weren't any groups for women. And I think, like you said, the norm probably back then was that the groups were male dominated and that they were the groups and that was it. And there was nothing really out there for women. But Yeah, it's got to a point now where I think it kind of flipped. It flipped itself. There were just so many women supporting women. I think naturally, women are better at supporting each other. As men, we feel like we should be able to look after ourselves. We shouldn't need to ask another man for help. It's like when a light bulb goes, you don't want to ring another man to come and fix it for you. You're like, I can do it. You know what that that's a really fair comment that you just said so he won't remind me saying this at all My partner is useless at DIY useless. So I was like just cool I was like just call our friend. I was like just call our friend Joe and like he'll come do it He's like no, I'm gonna do it I'll watch YouTube and I'll fix it and I'm like, no, you'll probably break it. Like just call Joe you'll be fine And he's like, no, I'm gonna do it and I'm like off course eggs and then two weeks later It's still not done and I'm like I'll call Joe But that's a great representation of mental health. Like literally men will just go through the problem and they'll just try and fix it themselves and try and deal with it themselves. And eventually, probably when it's too late and the house has burnt down because they're an electrical fault, they then go and ask for help. But it's usually too late. You really need to ask for help when the problem occurs or just have that support there to start with. That's what I felt were needed. And it's proven really. I mean, there was one guy in the group, again, I'm not going to name any names because there's been quite a few, who lost his job, got into proper air because he thought that that basically answered all his prayers. got sold the dream on a... I'm not going to say the name of the course but I think it were around £12,000 or whatever it were as they are. If you look and find which one's 12 grand. Yeah, yeah. So the one that was 12 he paid for that course literally with the last of his money thought that this is it, game changer, gonna get into proper... it's gonna change my life. They've told me it's going to change my life on this big adrenaline rush of yeah, we can do it. We can do it. And then literally nothing for six months. He thought it were literally a quick fix. He struggled mega struggled. He put in the group that he was struggling, explained everything that had happened and we'd been in the group for a while anyway. yeah. And then basically as soon as he kind of put in everything that was going on. It was just amazing to watch people's response and say, I've been through it. That happened to me. I've done that. Don't worry. We've all done it. But then also giving him different options of what he could do. So maybe try this. Have you thought about doing this? Is there anything else that you're at? Is there anything? Do you know, kind of being like a bit of a parent, really. Helping guide, just guide. That's really all you can do is just guide people. If you tell people what to do, they'll probably not do it. But if you just guide them and give them the tools to help themselves, that massively helps. So he ended up then setting up another business, which is doing really well, which is something not necessarily to do with property investment, but it's something that's helped him and his family to get on. I think sometimes you do go to a lot of these events or these courses and it's just drilled into your brain that it's just that easy that everybody should be able to do it. But it really isn't. It's a lot of hard work and it is a lot of luck. A lot of people who I know personally who are very successful in property have been very lucky because they've been very lucky to find investors that believe in them. They've been very lucky to maybe come across some funds in their personal life, a lot of funds that not necessarily everybody could have got. And I know they said that, you've got to put yourself in that position to get that look. But some people really can be luckier than you. So sometimes you've got to work. that little bit harder than what everybody else has got to work but eventually I think it does come round as long as you do put the graft in I hope it does come round anyway because I'm still waiting for it to kick off myself so It's all about resources and it's all about just putting yourself out there to know and connecting yourself with the right people. as always, these groups are important. I would just like to point out... I was one of the first ever female property groups back in 2022, just want to say. I am one of the OGs. But yeah, it's so important. It really, really is. And I'm so glad, Jonny, that I got you on the podcast to tell your story and give you your voice as well, because it's important. It's important. And, you know, quite frankly, I wanted to know, I really wanted to know who is this guy in a wonderful way that felt the need to set up men in property. Like, what's his story? Why did he feel the need to set that up? And I'm so glad that I've met you and had this conversation with you and hopefully just get it out to the wider audience so that anyone who then feels that they also want to join your community can because that's what it's all about. Like, I think you can't have enough. I really believe that. Yeah, I think one of the other things I just wanted to just mention is, like I said about the support that we've had from women, a lot of events, the women there and their partners, because a lot of couples tend to invest in property together. So a lot of the women have been pushing their blokes to join men in property. Like once they found out about men in property, they're like... Oh, that'd be perfect. Like my bloke, he ain't got anybody, because none of our friends are in property industry. So they've been members of women in property clubs or girls in property tribe. But then she were like, I go to these meetings and then my bloke can't go anything or anyone to talk to about property. So the fact that the women have been helping grow men in property as well, like by telling their blokes or telling their friends who are male to join the group because there are groups, the group is there. Brilliant. Brilliant. And that's what it's all about. It is literally about doing that. It's about, I always say this, it's collaboration. Always. Even though you're a guy, Johnny, and I'm a girl, it's all about, it's all about just being like, we're people. are human beings. We're not aliens. We're people. So, I love that. So if people want to then get in contact with you after this, and people want to find you on socials, people want to join Men in Property, what is the best way for people to connect with you? Yeah, so I'm on every single social media platform. If you join the Men in Property via Facebook, the WhatsApp link's on there as well. You just have to request because it is a private group. All the groups are private. So yeah, a few questions you just have to answer to make sure that you're legitimate because again, there's a lot of snakes in the grass out there. You've got to be very careful. We're trying so hard to police it so that there aren't people coming into the group trying to take advantage of people. Again, that's something that's quite difficult to do, but we're trying our best. Yeah, amazing. So, so they're just typing like Johnny Brown, don't they, into socials to find... Or men in property. Okay, fabulous. And as always, I am Athena Dobson, underscore official on Instagram, girls in property. Some people email me, feel free to do so. It's girls in property pod at gmail.com as well. And of course you have men in property, but you also have the girls in property events and community as well. So just a reminder, I think by the time this comes out, we will be down to like minimum tickets left for the girls and property annual retreat on Friday, 25th of April. It's at Penley Manor in Hartfordshire. Three weeks ago when I recorded this podcast, there were about nine tickets left. So I don't know how many there's going to be left. You never know, could even be sold out. But literally it's 80 women coming together in one room to learn, grow, collaborate and be together. From last year, I'm actually speaking to some people at the moment who even did business with other women in the room And the conversations are just electric So make sure that you're in that and then of course some people are asking me about the girls and property community You actually get a 10 % discount to come to the retreat if you join the community And of course, we have all of our expert speakers that come in. I've built it on the circle platform And through that literally we meet on the first Tuesday of every month online with an expert to do girls and prosperity So nothing to do with property. It's about you as a person developing you who you what is it that you want? But actually I started throwing in bonuses. We now meet like literally every single two weeks. So any questions you've got let me know I'll probably do a demo on it soon And then I'm also going to introduce some in-person workshops for the community as well This year. So yes, and then Johnny just before you go What would be one one parting bit of wisdom you would like to just leave with the listeners before you go? Literally all I ever said now when I'm when I'm doing my talks is just check in on your friends, just check in on your mates. If it's someone you haven't spoke to in a while because business has got really busy, literally drop them a message. You'll never know how that message could actually change their life. I adore that. I love that. Let's all check on our friends. If there's anyone out there you haven't spoken to in a while, just send them a message and just be like, just checking in. Hope you're OK. Johnny, that was beautiful. I think that's the perfect, perfect way to finish this podcast. Let's be kind. Always check on our friends. If you ever need support, you've got Johnny and you've got me. Always reach out to us. But thanks, guys. Thank you so much for listening. And Johnny, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. Really, really appreciate it. And have the most wonderful week. Thanks guys, all the best, bye!