Laying the Foundations: Getting Started in Construction with Victoria Tsoy

In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson sits down with Victoria Tsoy, a true force in construction and property development. Victoria shares her remarkable story of going from struggling to find her place in the working world to becoming a successful property developer.

She talks honestly about the hard work involved, the sacrifices she has made for her family, and how crucial it is to build a dependable and trustworthy team. The conversation also explores smart financial planning, the strength of community support, and the valuable lessons Victoria has learned — including the ones that came from mistakes along the way.

Victoria inspires anyone with dreams of property development to have confidence in themselves and their abilities. She also highlights how important your reputation and personal brand are if you want to thrive in this industry. 

If you are curious about the world of construction and how it all works, this episode is definitely one to tune in to.

How to get involved with the Girls in Property Community 👇

🎟️ Join our Next Workshop

👩 Join our Community

🎧Listen to other Episodes

I am hosting a Girls in Property Community Beach Networking Day on Saturday 05th July 🏖️ . Want to join us? DM me the word ‘BEACH’ for all the details!"

GET IN TOUCH

📷 Instagram

📧 girlsinpropertypod@gmail.com

-
Don’t Miss Out! Click here to claim your FREE access to my Mindset Accelerator Programme. Start developing the mindset you need to become an outstanding property investor today! 🚀


Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:00

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the girls and property podcast. So if you're tuning in today, I imagine you are either interested in property construction, maybe a, um, a development of some, of some description, maybe literally building from ground up. Um, or you're already in the construction world. You're already doing things and you know this woman really well and you're so interested in hearing from her further because let's face it, she is a powerhouse. when it comes to all things construction and property development within this industry. So I have wanted to get this person on for the longest time. And today I am so happy to introduce my friend, Victoria Toy. Hey Victoria. thank you so much for such a kind introduction. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and I know it's taken a while, we're both busy, always busy, but thank you so much for having me. And what I'm so excited about today is, Victoria, there's only people that are interested in getting into construction, but let's face it, it's quite a big thing. It's quite a scary thing to do. I think there's a lot of maybe unknowing things that go into it. And let's face it, there's not that many females out there actually inspiring us to do it. And what I'd love to do today is inspire everybody to want to get involved and want to ask questions. it! uh So first of all, I would love for everybody to get to know you a little bit more so can you introduce yourself and tell us your story, can you tell us like how you got to who you are today, why you chose to actually go into construction and property, let's face it, and then maybe something interesting about you at the end that people don't know about you, would love to hear. Okay, so hello everyone, I'm Victoria Tsoi and I'm 40 years old. I think that's important because now I don't give a shit about many many things as I turn 40. um So my journey starts. I used to say that my journey started when I bought my first house. I think my journey started when I started saving for my first house because that was the actual beginning of getting there. um So how it started very boringly, I rented a big house and I started hosting people in my house because I've decided to go to end my relationships with an ex partner and I needed a fresh start. So what I did is I rented a big house and good location in Oxford and I was like, what, what it is that I can do when it's, you know, the times are really, really bad and what I thought I had, it was my education and my environment. So my education at that time already had two bachelor's degrees, I had PhD, but I was so overqualified I couldn't find a job. Like I literally went to so many interviews and they were like, oh, you're kind of unemployable. You're overqualified in uh education side that you don't have experience. So I just started hosting students and then I rented a house next door and I was doing Airbnb's on Gumtree. It wasn't as popular, you it wasn't called an essay and it was just, you know, like trying to survive. So I did, I rented that little house next door and I constantly just subletted the rooms in my house. So why I managed to get more money for, you know, more than just subletting the rooms is that I provided the service. So I was a host mother where I would look after international students, where I would feed them, clean for them, do laundry, clean their rooms, and just like be in local parent. So I've done that for many, many years. I only stopped doing it, I think three years ago, like two and a half years ago. So throughout all this time, know, people, a lot of people ask me, how did you make the capital? Where does the money come from? The money comes from, you know, like boring work. So I've had all this going on for years and years and years and with working in the industry, like say education, I then started doing consultancy for international students to come into Oxford and study and live, for families to move over. um Then I had students in boarding schools. I would have students in my house, students next door. I had students all around the country and I would do anything they want, depending on the package. I would, you know, like if a child is sick in Shrewsbury, I get in my car and I go. Is it Sunday, five o'clock? Is it, you know, Monday, 10 PM? Like no matter what, I would go and do it. And that was just my beginning. uh I was determined to save for my deposit and for my property. I saw that the property could be the escape for me, financial freedom, independence. And I could, I was obsessed, like people who knew me back then, like I was obsessed about having a property and I had a few people around me who had access to money and I told them like, you need to buy a house, you need to buy, and they just couldn't get it. And like some friends of mine, like from the past, they see me and they're like, like I knew it would happen, you know, but when, when it's so hard for so long, like you, you know, it's It's really, it's a tough road, you know, to get there. So it's taken me what, seven years to buy my first property. And when I bought it, I was like, I can't let it go. You know, like I can't let it go. And I think the road into construction, it led me there because when you're in property, there are a few people who do it hands off. you know, like somebody's managing for them. Like I had some like not the best builders. So I had to learn on the job because I didn't want them to screw me over. Because the money is so limited and it was so hard to earn it. know, like years, years they come into months, months go into days, into... This is the hours I haven't spent with my child. One of the things I'll never get back and people don't understand is the time I had with my... I didn't have with my daughter. Like I used to work... All day, I work now all day and all weekends and you know, like, but it's more flexible, you know, I can go on holidays. I can, you know, work from vibrators. I can do this and that. I can make it up. But back then, you know, when my daughter was three years old and when I was working, you know, driving children to, I don't know, Wales for, I don't know, bikes, you know, so I can earn a day rate and miles. you know, like I could, I just needed to make it happen. And I think. Yeah, that's taken of like it's been a like a long road for me. And I just wanted to be in control. And that's why every time I do a project, because every time is a new project, I want to learn because I clearly have no, you know, I have no educational background in construction or project management. I just needed to learn and I want I want to know what I'm doing. So maybe that's kind of how life has taken me where I am today. uh So yeah, this is a very quick kind of breakdown of how I got from, you know, kind of being lost completely, like in a very dark place into owning my first house. And now I'm building 10 units, four units, four units. I'm working on some land opportunities where we're going to do care home commercial. Like the things are happening, but it's been a very, very long. Yeah, definitely. So what I want to do is I just want to touch on some of the things that you said, and then I want to talk about some of the things that you're actually doing at the moment as well. So first of all, one of things I love is just hearing your story as well, Victoria, because I think what's so interesting is when people see you now on social media and they're meeting you for the first time and they see you in Barbados and they see you standing in front of these 16 houses that you've just built with your hard hat on looking absolutely fabulous, I might add, it's so interesting to hear your roots and what you had to do. And I love the fact that you just said, look, people always say to me, how did I make my money? I made my money through boring, hard work. And I don't think enough people actually admit that. I think they think, I made my money because I just built these four houses, these 16 houses, this care home. No, you made your money because you worked hard and you did what you had to do to start with. And I think that's a really important thing to say to everybody out there who So, we try to avoid those things. We always try to avoid the boring stuff. It's like, we don't have to do that at all. just because you see somebody driving a Rolls Royce, a Ferrari, a Lamborghini on Instagram or socials thinking, I'll get into property, this is what your life looks like, that's not actually reality. And I think that starting with saying that I think is so important. And the other thing I just want to touch on, which you said, which really struck a chord is this notion about sacrifice. So you're talking about the fact that you had to sacrifice your time with your daughter and you had to make that sacrifice but to create, I would think, what you felt would be a better future for you and your family going forward. So what was that like when she was three and, you know, mum guilt and everything? Because mums within the community feel that all the time. What advice would you give to them? The advice I would give to them that yes, you don't have that time back but was in such a dark place and the future didn't really look very good for my daughter. I was a single parent. I have epilepsy and you know there are things which is out of my control where I had to make sure my daughter is safe so this was like in my mind when I understood where I am in my marriage and things got really bad like the only thing on my mind was like this is not my daughter's life like I have to you know like I've made a mistake you know I was young I was in love you know all that but now this is you know my child I have only one child and I cannot I cannot make it so bad for her. I have to get her out. So for me, providing security for her, wasn't like, you know, fancy clothes. wasn't the cars. wasn't the, you know, it was education. Education was extremely important, you know, to our family because my dad came from a very humble uh background. They were refugees in Soviet Union. They had to... work for food, they had to fish for food. My dad was working on the fields when he was six years old. That type of life I come from, he has built his business and he was successful, but that's where we come from. So education was so important to us. And because I'm in Oxford, I had to give her the best. Yes, I can afford it. Yes, it's not the life I had, but... I've just like that moment for me was, you know, like a light bulb moment when I realized that I have to make it happen for her. So I had to provide, but for her future, you know, not in that moment. In that moment, it wasn't about, you know, going to fancy restaurants or going for holidays. can't afford or buying a car. can't afford at that moment. Like I knew that I have to sacrifice my time for many, many years because like if something happens to me, I have to make sure she's safe, she has access to education, she has access to life. Life again is, it's not the money, it's not the cars, it's feeling safe for me. So to all the moms out there, would say just see the goal where you want your child to be, it's the trust, it's the trust you wanna put for your child. Again, it's not just the money, it's how you put the trust together. you know, happens to you because I had medical condition. I always thought, you know, what's happening if I go, uh, my parents are gone. My sisters are away. What will happen to my daughter? My daughter will go to her dad. The only goal her dad had was to live in a council house and not work. And I said, this is never going to be like, I have to do anything, but this cannot be my daughter's future. And fraud that years of sacrifice, let's say, like I have made sure and that's why I couldn't stop Athena as well. You know, like I could have stopped now and be like, you know, yeah, okay, I've got one house, I've got two houses, I've got three houses, I've got five houses. But then when I realized how I can structure it, how I can make it better and then now life opens other opportunities, you know, for younger people, like I can see what I can do and where I can take it. But again, coming back to what advice I would give, I would give like don't blame yourself for all this time. You know, I a lot of older moms judging me at the playground, at the school pickup. I was always late. You know, I was always like all over the place. You know, I had issues, I had no money. Like I was always late with my payments. I was late at school and there was always this like, you know, like judgment and It just, think it's part of life. And those years of hard work has definitely provided me now with this place where my daughter is safe, her future is safe. I want her to be a good person. I want her to go and follow her dreams, but it would not happen if we didn't do that. And she's 18 now and we speak about it sometimes. And she's a little bit resentful of me, which I understand. And it's not perfect and we are not like... You know, like, my God, besties, and we're like, you know, running around shopping together. Like we've got our issues and I'm still now working all the time. Like it's an issue for my personal life, you know. It is. But it's just something like, I think it's worth it. I think it's worth it if, you know, if I've had an accident and like I would know that my daughter is safe. Like for me, it's extremely important. I would know that my family is safe. I know that I've put systems in place. where I've done everything I could. This is for me the most important part of being in the property and having access now to what I'm doing. Hmm. Do you know what Victoria, I think you're a very brave woman. I think you're very, very brave, honestly, in everything that you've done. And what I would say to you is this, right? Your daughter's 18 years old, so she's still young. You know, I remember when I was 18 years old and I thought I knew everything. You probably thought you knew everything at 18, but do know what? She's still young, but I'm telling you one day she will, she really will understand why you did what you did for her. Because, you know, when my mum was a single mum growing up, mum missed a lot of... you. uh that she made to give me and my brother a better life. So don't, don't give up is what I would say. Like honestly, like just give her time. She's still young, but I think it's a very, very brave thing that you do and did and in saying that as well. um Victoria, what are you, I want everyone to know like, What are you doing right now with all of the amazing things that you're doing? So let's talk about the actual construction um developments that you're involved in. So what's going on? Okay, what's going on? So I'm doing a lot. And people ask me how many sites you're on, like I don't know. I need to know, I'm building my system so I know. ah So at the moment we have just launched Harcourt Meadow. It's a development of four Cotswold stone houses. It's amazing. We had a really good feedback on Saturday and one, like a few people came and they were so amazed with the quality and finish. it's just like, you know, it's such a like... It's so hard to build, know, like it's so hard. Everything goes wrong every day. And then people let you down all the time from builders to investors. Like everything falls apart. But then people come in and they were like, we've never seen a finish like that. my God. And you know, like it's really like, I just feel so proud of my team. It's not me. Like it's not me. I'm not the builder. I'm learning. I want to know what's going on, but I am not the builder. So my I'm so proud of my team, of my builder, Petres, who's got this incredible eye and attention to detail. And I'm just so happy about that. So this is Stanton Harcourt. So I'm building four houses in Kennington. It's a village where I bought my first house and it was a really good area for me. So I bought my first house there. My first new build development was there on the same street. And now this is my third property. So we're building four houses there. ah I bought a local bungalow for 367,000 and we're hoping to achieve 1.8 million on sale. ah So we in the same village, we've just agreed the purchase of another bungalow, which I'm gonna convert into two houses. So that's going on. Then I've got, what else I've got? We bought one property, three-bedroom semi-detached, which I'm gonna turn into a six or seven children's home. So this is a very new concept for me. I used to, you know, well, I built my portfolio by uh BRRR, you know, like everyone else. And I'm now at the level I kind of don't want to service uh private sector anymore. uh HMOs are just not for me. I've always had a bad tenant, you know, like I was honestly, if you met me in 2018, I was like, I'm going to have 30 HMOs. And now I'm like, I don't want any of them. So what we're going to do, I'm going to try to convert my portfolio from what I've got to give it to social housing. So we are now, I'm working to get to know a few companies. This is my job for this week. I want to build for social housing. So this is something like, you know, I just want to do something else. I want people to, I don't know, love the homes I built. Like it's a lot of sacrifice for me it was, and I want the end user to enjoy it, you know, just, so I'm doing. That ah we're doing renovation. I'm building a house for myself if I ever finish it because it's always the last on the job. literally the last. So the people, like all the workers are never there because they have to go to business. uh I'm building one bungalow into like a super home and I've got some land in promotion. So this is something. And I'm building this crapyard. So we're building 14 units there. Yes. So this is ah the biggest project for me. ah I'm learning a lot. we've got, it was a scrap yard. So a lot of contamination there. We found more contamination as we were doing the demolition. So that was very eventful. It was a very eventful month for me. But we are kind of pushing through that really. I love the process of a new build. Cause like, you know, you follow it. And then it's like boom, boom, boom. And that's the roof. like, you know, that's it. Um, yeah. So I've got some land in promotion for like a big project. And this is very exciting. Um, cause this is something out of my comfort zone and I'm heavily shopping. So I'm heavily shopping for bigger sites. So there is an office conversion. There is land for 20,000 square foot something. So like, shopping now kind of heavily for the next project because I'm now already looking at the exit of the scrapyard. So my scrapyard will be finished in April next year and I need to secure my next site now. So if I want to keep the momentum going I need to now find and start the purchase for the next site. So that's what I'm doing. anyone good calling me I'm there. I'm there. my goodness, wow, you see? Incredible, like all the things that you're doing. I don't know how you keep up with it, honestly. There's so much to it. Yeah, but there's so much to it. honestly, Victoria, I wanna talk to you more about this, because I think what's so important is I bet you what's happening now, I bet you anything, the listeners are listening to this going, my God, look at everything she's doing. How do I just start? How do I even just get into it? So don't worry, don't worry, girls and guys, we're gonna delve into this, so don't panic. But before we do that, as always Victoria, I always love celebrating on this podcast. I really, with everything you're going on, I really, really want to know what it is that you're celebrating at the moment for you. I've set up this mentoring group, which I'm going to do totally free. You just fill in the form and then we're going to be speaking for two hours every two weeks. And I'm going to get to know anyone who wants to speak with me, who wants to find out what I'm doing, how I did it. Because there are no hidden things, you know, like I had no money. I worked, I worked day and night, weekends, you know, that's the truth of it. I still work day, night and weekends now. And I'm just, they can ask me anything. So I would like to celebrate. younger people who find it really difficult to break through, you know, like, or to make a step. It's easy to say, oh, you're... there are resources out there, go take it. It was hard for us, you know, in the past. Now it's good. I think there are different hardship kind of situations in our generation, like the new people they faced because of, you know, social media. It's good, but it's also very bad. It's quite toxic and... the consumerism of it all, you know, like I've like, it's, it's an algorithm, right? They make you want to be on the app. Yeah. And then if you are vulnerable, then you're going to be in it. So I kind of want to use my social media to kind of spread the reality of life. And that's what I'm going to be doing. Yeah. I want them, if they want to ask me any questions, I'm looking to set up apprenticeships. in the next like six months to a year. Because if you want this life, you want to be fancy developer, you can start from being a laborer. And I'm open about sharing prices and how much people make, because I think people should know this. Because construction is, it used to be, oh, it's dirty or it's this. A bricklayer earns $3.50 a day. Like if I knew that maybe I would go and do it. You know, like it's a great job. Like I have extremely intelligent conversations when I go and I speak with the people on site, you know, because they're like, they're amazing people. And I want to just spread this information, this side of what's really going on on sites, you know. I love that, I absolutely love that. And when you say young people, just because there are young listeners who listen to this podcast, so what are you um defining as young people so that they know they can get in contact with you? 14 to 25? I mean yeah we're young, we're young but yeah 14 to 25 because like I didn't know what I want to do until like I don't know say six years ago you know you're still you're like maybe I will change my life will change as well like I know that I know nothing you know I'm just trying to make the most of what's happening right now in my life But I think you were extremely vulnerable at the time. And because my daughter is 18, I can see that. And I'm lucky I have my sisters, they support her. But maybe somebody doesn't. And sometimes you also resent your family. I was like a really bad child to my parents. I wanted nothing to do with them. So I'm thinking maybe my friends or their children, they need it. You never know. So I just put it out there. There is a forum on... my LinkedIn. I'm gonna share it on Instagram and just fill it in. If you want us, you know, just come on to the chat and let's just chat if you want. Yeah. Amazing, fantastic, yeah. And you know, we have young women within the girls and property community. One of the youngest ones that came to the retreat was 22. So I'm sure she'd be really open to it as well. And one of the things that I'm celebrating is quite similar to you, Victoria. I went basically, at the weekend just gone, I went to the Property Entrepreneur Summit, which is run by Paul Stapleton and Michelle Cairns. And it was fab. It was really good. It was the second year that I went. I loved it. I mean, it was networking on steroids. I came away exhausted because I met up with so many people. It was great. But one of the things I want to celebrate is the people that I met. So for example, when we walked into the room, we spotted this beautiful young girl called Lizzie who's 17 years old. And she looked like a deer in headlights, her. And we went up to her, because I took mum along, so me and mum went up to her and said, you know, who are you here with? And she was like, oh, I live in Milton Keynes, so was easy for me and my dad's working today, so I thought I'd come along. And I was like, you're here on your own at 17. And she was like, yeah. And I was like, girl, come hang out with us. We're girls on property, come over here. Because I took a whole gang of girls on property. So we literally adopted her for the whole day, which was so incredible. And it's weird how the universe works. just, I happened to be walking into this 400-seated room at the time, but spot Lizzie. Yeah. oh Daniels. Josh, I know you're listening to this. I promise you, I do a shout out to you. So here is your shout out, Josh Daniels. Hey Josh. And he's fabulous. He came right up to me he's like, Like I literally am your number one fan and I was like really he's like I listen to every episode I'm the one who messaged you seven months ago to say how you changed my life with your podcast And it was amazing and it was so incredible just to like meet people and he said to me the funniest thing I don't know if you've ever had this before Victoria. It was really weird He was like I literally listen to you every Monday and now I'm meeting you in person and he's like it's the weirdest thing ever And I was like I was like what it's weird for me, too But yeah, I promise him I give him a shout out. So Josh, this is your shout out today. um But yeah, just celebrating people, just celebrating people from all walks of life, no matter what your age is, what your background is, anything, like let's just all come together and just celebrate everybody. So yeah, celebrating young, middle, old, whoever you are, we're celebrating you, everyone. know, I want everyone to go into property but because I have my group, know for Anyone who is at the stage where you know, they are comfortable to go into develop I've got my group there, you know, I wanted to do something for somebody who can't you know either forward it or you know, just Who is not there yet, that's why, you know? Just... So it's there. love what you're doing with it. I think it's inspiring. So Victoria, I've got a couple of questions for you to try and help today's listeners to really delve into construction. So my first question is, let's take somebody who is at the start of their journey and they're looking at all these different property strategies through, let's say, rent to rent, deal sourcing, HMOs, service accommodation, buy to let, BRR, whatever, construction. What would you say to anybody that was, I mean, meaning of the word. you the meaning of the word. possibility? I went into say renting because I didn't have money. You know, if you don't, as you said on your, on the retreat, you said the strategy will be defined by your circumstances. uh That was really good. That was amazing. Yeah, that was really good. Cause that's the truth. You know, we can't, I love BRRR and I've done that to build my capital in my portfolio. Like it's an amazing strategy and the project I'm working now, this free bed into six bed. That's why I want to do it document and then show people how to do it now. Not in 2018, but like right now in the current market with the current legislation, with the interest rates as they are. So I want to do that. But for somebody who wants to start, I BFR is the amazing option because you can build your capital on it. If you don't own a property. I see a lot of people being advised to buy their first property for a limited company. And that's a very bad advice. I don't know. I'm not a financial advisor yet. Do your due diligence. But I think your first project always has to be a residential because you never know what the government is going to come up with. Maybe they'll take that away from us, know, capital gains and so on. So use that first time buyer as like the way of building the most capital on your first property. That's how I did it and that's how I advise my friends to do it. Cause this is like the only tax free option you can have in this country, you know, the first one. So yeah, but if you don't have the capital, you can, you know, start with service accommodation. Like for example, us, when we finished the project, I'm looking for somebody to give it to. Like my problem is that I don't have people. who want to do like to take my product at the end, you know, cause I don't want to do management and like, just, I don't want to do it anymore. And I struggle with finding people who would do service accommodation for me. So for example, we had this apartment, which my, one of my investors they own. And let's say I used to make when I did service accommodation in it, I would make about eight and a half thousand a month. Yes, there is cleaning, there is bedding, there is that. Yeah. But you can make your money back. Yeah. If you do it for a year, you know it, you can, you can make it back. An agent, they can only secure like long-term, maybe two and a half thousand pounds a month. So potentially if I could know this, you know, somebody great at serviced accommodation who I trust, you know, I could give it to them and they could make money. So this is a great strategy if you don't have a lot of cash to start with, but you need to have, you know, you need to have your reputation, you need to be trustworthy. And this is again, this is your brand, right? Like online build your brand, not that, okay, it's all about money, money, money. I see a lot of people, it's all about money, money, you know, they, Oh, I'm going to teach you this. I'm going to teach you that. And people are not qualified. People haven't done what they say they do. And there is so much lies on social media. Like it makes me cringe and sick. I know people who go to other people's properties and record and say, Oh, I've done it. No, you didn't. And it's awful. You know, um, But again, there are more good people out there. So I think there are so many different opportunities. Connect with people. You know, for example, I connect with people online. And again, on your retreat, I've connected with very lovely ladies and I look at what they do. And I think at some point, as my business grow, like I want to work with people like I like, you know, there are a few ladies I like, I look at them and I'm like, you know, when I have a job, like I'm going to call her. Yeah. and there is that. So you're, you know, putting yourself out there as well on social media, being authentic self and, you know, honest and, you know, like showcasing what it is that you do. I think this is a great start as well, you know, because like, again, ladies from your retreat, I'm looking at a few of them, then my daughter's friends who, you know, maybe they will do some editing for me. You know, you never know, but there are so many opportunities out there and you just need to kind of Be available. Yeah, definitely. I completely agree. I want to just touch on something that you just said there just to go over it again because the listener's ears I bet perked up at this point and then what I want to do is I want to again go back to construction because that's what this episode is about and really help people who want to get into that. So I bet you anything that the listener's ears perked up when you said that your advice would be not to actually buy your first property in a limited company. So what I just want to understand from you Victoria is do you mean that the first property that you purchase should be a property that you actually live in yourself. It should be your residential property for a first time buyer. What is it that you're referring to? Well, on paper it should bear and you know like it should bear. It should be, but if you decide that you renovated it and your life's changed and you've decided to move and sell, that's acceptable, right? Right, I see what you're saying. So you're, yeah, I understand what you're saying. This is, I just wanted to reiterate for the listeners. So basically, yeah, moving into a property, living in the property, doing it up, doing the property up, and then either flipping it or um doing a bioreferbish rent refinance and potentially then putting it onto a buy-to-let mortgage, for example, and doing it that way. Yeah, definitely. And also if you're going to be living in it yourself, and I know what you're talking about with tax reasons, I know a lot of people that their main strategy is that they buy a property, they live in it, it's their residential home, but they just flip and they move, reckon, every two years flipping properties. And that's how they move their way up the ladder. That is a great strategy. yeah, because that's the only way you can save some tags, because they, you know, as soon as you make a little bit money, they're gonna come after you. So we should use this, yes, definitely. Victoria I think is referring to as capital gains tax. So if you actually live in a property, I think it's for at least three years, in three years, then in that way you don't, it's less. It's not that it's not, I think, is there no, is there no capital gains tax? There isn't, is there? Residential, yeah. So therefore each time you flip it, you won't have to pay the capital gains tax. So that is, but you would actually have to live in the property. If it's literally just a buy to let that you're buying, let's say that you have your own home and let's say you just want to go and buy another property. Obviously you can't be a first time buyer because you already have your own home. Then would you then suggest putting in a limited company, Victoria? Yeah. Yeah. your second property, it has to go to limited company. And then, yeah, it has to go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. anything we had listeners who own their own property and went, well, I'm going to go buy my second buy to let property in my own name because Victoria told me to. no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're going to actually live in the property, of course don't buy it through a company. It's your residential property. Like if you're going to live in it, that's your property. For example, I own my own property, right? I own what I live in. That's in my personal name. Of course it is. Don't put that in a limited company. You'd put your additional properties in the limited company. Victoria, just go back to construction. So we're talking about, I asked you a question about people starting out and everything, but what we actually haven't spoken about is the financial side of things. How much money do you think you genuinely need to start in construction? Well, define construction. Your first refurbishment project will be construction. Yes, fair enough. That's a good, that's a good fair point you just made. Okay. your refurbishment will be construction. If you're talking about new build, Yes, I'm talking about ground up development. Okay, ground up development. Again, I started in 2020 when I bought a bungalow for 260,000 pounds cash and then I spent 175,000 pounds to build it. So this was an amazing time when I could build at 1,000 per square meter ground up. But you know, like was really hard. It was like I thought I'm going to die at that time. I didn't die. But it was at that moment. It was my God. It was awful. ah Now we are building at about 2200 per square meter. And this is with us not taking the cut. So me as a developer, I don't take salary. This is without project management. I project manage and my profit is at the end on the exit. So how much money you need to start? to do a grand app development, it depends. Like if you, you know, if your family, I don't know, have a piece of land and you can get planning on it, you can get 100 % from the bank and it will cost you zero. Or if you have an investor who believes in you and can back you up, they can, again, they can help you buy the land. They can, then you can get 100 % from the bank because banks love new build development. And again. It will cost you zero. If you, it depends. There are so many different scenarios, but what I love about ground up, it's the speed and also the funding, you know, so with refurbishment, like you always need to have your own money. Even if you have the bridge, you will always have like say 30 % where you have to fund it because they, they're all, they can offer it to you in the beginning. But when you get to completion, it will always be less. They will always make it that you have to have your own money, you know, as a security to build it. And the money is very expensive on the refurbishment for construction, the, you know, for the build. So that's why partly I also love new build as well as, you know, VAT refund. I love a VAT refund on new build because it's a zero rated. So yeah, to answer your question, I'm sorry, I'm going around because I don't know. I don't know how much money you need. It depends on your situation. um It depends. It depends on where you are, your environment, what it is that you want to build, you know. Yeah, no, I totally understand what you're saying. first of all, just touching on something you just said there. So go back to this notion about the banks that can give funding at 0%. What banks are we talking about? High Street ones or different ones? Like who would we be approaching? banks will give you 100 % for development. It's not at 0 % interest. No, no, it depends. So when I started, I took my first loan at 28%. You know that cash injection to buy my first new build ground up development. I had to pay 28%. But I only could make it work because I negotiated the purchase price. So I kind of instead of giving it to the vendor, I gave it to my investor and it was crazy. know, like it's too much and it's like, it shouldn't have worked, but it worked. At the moment, the lending we have with the banks on a ground up is under 10%. But this is, yeah, they give me a hundred percent for development and I pay 10 % annually for the interest on the whole package. But you need to get there. So the hardest part is to build your track record in the new build environment. They will never give you 10 % under 10 % until you can prove you have a track record. So the track record is the hardest part. Because like it starts, imagine now our interest rates are like here, yeah? When I started, what I heard it was 6%. So the banks would charge 6%. on the development funding. We are now paying 10 and I'm super happy because last year it was 18 for me. So for those four houses we just built it was 18. Okay, and that's with everything. It's all about track record, absolutely. What would you say in regards to then the power team that somebody would need to start in a new build construction? What power team? team is everything. Like your team is everything literally. ah You need a good solicitor who knows what they're doing, who deal with buying land. There are so many small things like I didn't know. I still learn. Like it's just everything. There's so many things to learn. So you need your solicitor, you need an architect, you need a structural engineer, you need a surveyor. You need to know how to do an appraisal. You need a planning consultant. You need an ecologist. You need a biodiversity specialist. Like you need so many people. And I think where things can go wrong, if you get one bad advice, it can take you, like it can drain your profit like, like to zero. People in my area where I'm building four houses, they bought a house for like a bungalow I bought, you know, for two 60. I think they, you know, people look what you do. So they bought a bungalow five doors down for 480,000 pounds. So they were told that they can build two extra houses and replace this dwelling and that they were going to have a GDV of 2 million pounds. Guess what? Five years on, there is no planning permission and they cannot sell now for let like, I think they will get maybe 320,000 pounds for that plot. goodness. getting your power team is everything. Agents, agents as well. Like you need to trust your people. If you don't reach out, reach out. Like I give a lot of advice, like not advice, like recommendations for people I use, cause I had so much bad advice. I nearly took a loan, which nearly killed me. ah I had bad planning consultants. I bought land, which I can't develop and it's, it's everything. So please be careful who you take advice from. Also, don't know, I'm popular, but best people are offline. Best people are offline. Best people are so busy. They go and look to relax, you know, a little bit of TikTok, a little bit of that. But yeah, ask for recommendation from real people doing real developments now, not 10 years ago, not 20 years ago, like who are, cause this climate is so hard. And you need to know somebody who can navigate through this climate, through this... Because we're kind of in recession, right? Yeah, I completely understand. Do you know what you've just said there, which I think is really important for everybody to hear, whether you're wanting to do construction or not, is every single person who has, if you want to call it success, or is where they are in their journey, has all gone through something. You know, I see so many people who I have conversations with who are just starting out in their journey, and they'll message me and they'll be like, Fina, this went wrong, and this went wrong, and I don't think I'm cut out for this, and I didn't realize it was going to be this hard. And it's like, yeah, but... Honestly, it was never going to be a straight line. When has it ever been a straight line? When has it ever been easy? Never. And some days I'll get messages from people who are really, really high and they're having a great time. Sometimes the next day they'll message me and say, this has all gone wrong. You've just heard it from Victoria herself, literally, who has said, I had a loan that nearly killed me. I had bad planners. I had bad times. I have those experiences as well. Nobody just knows what they're doing. sorry. I'm I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. week because this has gone wrong and this has gone wrong. That's like, be a problem solver. Don't dwell on it. Think how you can then move forward and how you can change things and get the right power team. So I'm really pleased that you also said that, Victoria. I think it's so important not just to talk about all the shiny great stuff that happens. but the reality of what actually happens on the way as well. One question I want to ask you is, you're talking about advice and getting advice from the right people. My question for you is, what's one bit of advice that you wish somebody would have given you when you were getting into this? So much. So much. I was like a blind kitten. I'm like, I wanna own the house. I was like, I wanna go develop. I jump, I go all in. I think invest more time into getting to know people more before connecting with somebody. This is something I've learned over. Well, my life really, but it's like it doesn't stick, you know, I think I needed another lesson and have a good lawyer. Also have a good lawyer. So then, you know, they protect you. think mixing with the wrong people in either business or life can absolutely make or break, you know, like where are you going? Again, this is just a part, you know, it just it's the moment and it will pass. But you know, I shouldn't have been there, know, just shouldn't have been there. So I wish somebody's told me to do a little bit more due diligence on people I work with. So do your due diligence as a piece of advice you wish that you had and get a good power team get a good lawyer and things Yeah, brilliant. I think I think that's great advice. Definitely due diligence is such such a powerful one Definitely and finding your the right people I think when you find the right people and you hang in the right circles that can honestly change your life. It really really can Yeah Because I think because property is so intense, not necessarily your people around you, your environment will be like very excited about it. And I think why it's so important to have communities like yours is because they can then support each other. know, like maybe, you know, people in my family, they don't want to talk about property. I'm like, I've had it a lot because they, was obsessed and people were like, you know, calm down. We want to talk about clothes. want to talk. And I wish I had this community, which I've built in for myself now because I was quite insecure and I wanted to learn. I didn't think I was good enough. like we've met a few years ago, but I was like, I need to be better to like even enter the community. And I think my advice would be for new people to be open to receive information and from trustworthy sources and that's why. You know, your community is so important. Like I wish I was open to, you know, to get help from people around me. Like, you know, cause then you can share the ideas. I do this now, but yeah, I wasn't in the right head space to, you know, go and ask for it before. That's a really important thing that you just said there actually. And I think a lot of people struggle with this, which is they think that they can do everything on their own and they don't ask for enough help. And they think, well, I can do this. And that's actually a really interesting conversation that's actually happening at the moment in my own life. So I went um to an event recently and I pulled an angel card that Emma Finn put in the goodie bags. And I'm not a wee-wee person, but it just so happened that the angel card that I pulled was ask others for help. And I think that sometimes I struggle with that. I think sometimes I feel like I can take on the world and I can do everything. And sometimes I also have to ask for help. You know, we're not always perfect. And so I love that you just said that. I love that you just said, sometimes in your immediate um lives, you're not gonna always be surrounded with the right people. That doesn't mean they're bad people. And it doesn't mean that you can't talk to them about clothes and, you know, first dates and whatever you want to talk to them about. But you can also find a different group to talk about what it is that you're aspiring to and be around different sort of ambitious people who don't make you feel guilty saying, like, for example, Victoria, you just said something there, which is I used to talk about property all the time and people used to say to me, oh, Athena, can you just talk about something else? You're always talking about business. You're always talking about property. Can you talk about something else? And I was like, well, okay, that's okay. That's what I do, but fine. Now, when I'm in the right people in the right communities, Everybody's talking about it and it's great to talk about it. So I love that you said that. One other question I've got for you and I'm really interested to hear your answer to this. I think I'd be fascinated is if you were made bankrupt tomorrow and had to start all over again, completely bankrupt, what would you do in your first 90 days? gosh, mmm, oh! I wasn't prepared for it. ah What I would do in my first 90 days? ah Completely bankrupt. ah I'm like in such a good place now, well, good place kind of in my professional life that I've built these relationships with people and I've built my reputation. Like, people respect me. because I can prove what I've done, you know, like I don't know how to put it, but because I am not what I look like or I am what I say I am, I am what I did and I can prove it and I have receipts, yeah, how I started or ended relationships, how I started or ended the project, like people know it and I have now been approached like quite a lot and heavily. work with but because it's mine you know like it's my business I'm very careful about who I do it with so what would I do what would I do I don't know definitely not gonna go on a sabbatical I don't know I can't I want to go but I can't go I don't know don't know what would I do. I don't have money anyway. I'm like all of my money is everywhere. You know, it's not that I have I have like millions on accounts. Like I invest heavily upfront. So I've invested now what I'm going to do in 2027. So like I'm quite like, I don't know, Athena. I don't know what I would do. I don't have money now. It's okay. Well, I'll tell you what, let me just mention something that you just said there, because I think this is an important point, just while I give you a break to think about it, because I appreciate I spared that on for you. You just said something there. I speak to a lot of people who do ground up developments, and they all say the same thing. They're like, the money isn't actually in the account, the money is actually in the next development, the next development. And so we see these massive houses and we think, God, these people must be so rich. hard. yeah, how do you have money for you? I shop in Lidl and like we just hustle. We just hustle. oh We hustle. So that the truth? it that you would, let's say, don't know, pay yourself a salary, that you'd be like, right, this is the salary we're gonna pay ourselves, this is how much we're gonna live off every month, but the rest of it is gonna go into the next development. How does it genuinely work? does it work for me is that I've got my portfolio which is running and that's like kind of my spending money for life and then like everything we make I don't get salary so I don't get paid salary like I like to invest I invest them I've got a quite diverse portfolio and I like to invest in different things so I'm also like doing something in tech and uh other investment because I think it's very important to diversify. Bless you. It's very important to diversify. I'm just like, I love business, you know, I think property and construction is just one part of it. And as we grow, like, I think there is so many different ways where you can invest. And I don't like looking at money on my account when I have like a lot of money on my account. I actually have like anxiety, you know, because banks are not safe. That's so interesting. It's just like, what? Is it going to give me comfort? No, because the bank is only going to cover me for 80,000 pounds. Like, it doesn't make me feel safe when I know that, I don't know, a million pounds is spread into 10, you know, like say 10 properties and that million is actually 10 million. Then I'm very happy. You know, it's safe. Yes, I have issues here, tenants, don't know, agents, something, but I know that it's safe. Then I have my relevant life plan, insurance, very important to have. And it's all good. Family is like really good for like... Then I can now think of what it is that I can do with my abilities and with my team. Cause I've got now the best builders. All I say in South East, like my build is actually like the best builder, maybe in England. We, you know, we bicker a lot, we have issues, blah, blah. But the finish and integrity is like on a different level. So I'm thinking like, okay, what can I do with that? What can I do with my business drive and what can I do with his hands? I want to go build retirement homes. You know, I want to put our abilities and I want to cap it as well. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to service just luxury market. I want to use what we've learned. I want to use our expertise and I want to go change the world. Like, and I have no idea how I'm going to do it. But this is something we're exploring right now. Yeah. I'm gonna help you a bit with the bankrupt question, because I think I understand what it's you're trying to say. what's really important to note for everyone listening here is, let's just say that you ran out of money, just everybody think about the fact you ran out of money. The one thing that nobody can take away from you and that costs nothing is you and your personal brand and who you are and the reputation that you have. So Victoria, I feel like what you were trying to say was, was if you were to be bankrupt tomorrow, You have your reputation. So for example, I feel like, you know, with this, with children's home, for example, and the fact you have this great relationship with the builder, could be that you say to everybody, right guys, I, I need an investor. need the investor. You know me, you know what I've actually achieved. I've got the most amazing team in place as well. We are going to go do something in this whole notion about profit for purpose and why we want to do something there. Um, and we're going to go forward. I probably think that's probably how you would actually play it. You would go and get the. Definitely like it just it it speaks volume, know, like it's it's something nobody as you said nobody can take away from you like nobody can take away from you because it's It's years, know, it's years of your life. It's how you treat people. It's how people talk about you, you know, behind closed doors. It's so many different things. And I think if that happened to me, I would be poached by, I don't know, many different people who would have an opportunity to offer me their money to do something with it because they know that I have a drive. I have my drive. I have my team. You know, if I have nothing, I have so much. And this is something I built inside. This is something like nobody can take away from me. And I would really advise younger people to invest into that. just... Because sometimes there's so much cringe online. Because they're trained to do it. Sales, do this, do that. Don't. Do your hard work. Be open that you work night shift. Be open that you work on the weekend. Not everyone wants to be in Saint-Tropez. I don't aspire to that lifestyle, for example, and I find it cringe. I love people who work. you know, when I see people like that, I love it, you know, like, and that comes back to that boring graft, you know, it's boring. It's like, you know, I don't have a Lamborghini or I don't have that. But I love real people. And I think that the real people, build like the real, like everything. m our country. And I think that's the people who work behind, know, like not online, offline. They just make shit happen. And like, I love these people and I want to celebrate these people. I love, I completely understand what you're saying, definitely. Victoria, I've absolutely loved our podcast today. I think it's absolutely been amazing. It's going to inspire so many different people to really think, I think to think differently is what I hope that people really get out of this and to think about different ways that you can invest or what they would do if they were to be in your position or your shoes. And I'm sure a lot of listeners may have actually even been in a similar position and want to reach out because you're so relatable as well. You and me talk a lot and we always talk about things going wrong all the time. There's lots of moving parts. It'd almost be impossible if they weren't going wrong all the time. One of my final questions for you is, we always do property mishaps on this podcast. I would love to hear about a really juicy kind of property disaster that you are either, hopefully not experiencing right now, but have experienced and can just share for the reality of what life can be like. I've got so many disasters like just very recent ones so we've bought land with uh well we've bought a bungalow with the land at the back and I was advised and well really told that we can definitely put a development of say thousand square meters in the back and it's like 90 I was told 98.9 % that I will get planning for 1000 square meters on that piece of land. Well, guess what? That wasn't true. I raised the money. I bought that land. It's taken me what? Eight months. It's taken six months to buy that. We're now going to refurbish the existing house, but the feedback now I got from the actual good planning consultant that Victoria was lied to and I felt like a right idiot about that. But this is just some of the reality in this business, you know? I I felt like a complete idiot. know, it's my job, you know, but trusting. uh bought it, what's the plan? Well, the solution is that we cannot develop any residential on it for the next 10 years So we can either hold on to land and just keep it or I'm thinking maybe we can do some commercial like a farm shop or gym studio something recreational But it's not gonna be five million pound development, you know It's not that you know, it's not you know, I can build like a little I'm thinking maybe I can do like a cool staycation site, know, like something really cool like this, you know, but again, that's, that's not going to be a five million pound GDV development, you know, that's not going to be that. And no, it's just, it's very, I'm disappointed with myself that it's, you know, I've, because I'm so busy, you know, this is like my problem now because I'm so busy, I rely on people like a lot and Finding the right team and like it's crucial like that one bad advice We're not gonna lose money on it because we're gonna do the existing house and sell it but the profit we're supposed to have it's it's non-existent, you know and ah Like I feel extremely bad ah For my investors on this project and I will need to make make it up to them by I Don't know giving them. I don't know something else something Like I have to now make things happen for them because I can't just say, oh, oops, sorry, I had a bad advice, you know, because it's not on them, it's on me. And this is going to be extremely uncomfortable. And because again, you know, my reputation, it's like, how could I have done it? And like I have been beating myself for it for like weeks now. And I will just need to get it sorted. But this is a bit of a disaster. Bit of a disaster. Well, if anybody can solve it, it's you. I really believe that. This might sound like a really, really silly basic question. I know nothing about construction, Victoria, like literally nothing. But so I'm really sorry if this is a silly question, but would it have been a possibility to also have done it where you, it was like subject to planning being approved that you would have actually have taken on the piece of land? Could you have done it in that way? Where I am like an Oxford it's like very desirable location so owners are not interested in this so like it's just they don't want to entertain that I have been discussing deals like that for two, three years now. And it's usually when it's subject to planning, like the owners don't like it because we're quite, I don't know, in high demand, like, you know, self-east, they're like, if you don't want it, I've got another 10 developers who would buy it, you know, if it's desirable. So yeah, and it's not a silly question. We can all try, but I once spent eight months discussing a deal like this, subject to planning. And they were like, next week, next week, next week, we're gonna sign it, we're gonna sign it. And then they were like, just, it's not happening. And that was eight months of my life working on it. So, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And you know what? love this podcast because there's so much to learn and there's so much to think, what I want the listeners to feel like is, oh, do know what? Even people like Victoria go through these situations. It's not just me. That's why I really want people to get away from these podcasts is to really think you're not alone, that everybody is going through it. There is reward at the end. It is worth doing 100%. It's a fantastic strategy to do. 100%. Yeah, 100%. we just won't use that planner again. You know not to use it. You put a big black mark against their name, you know, and you move forward as it were. the best. That's how I look at it. Because like if I was to go that route, you know, it still be, oh, maybe I can do this, maybe I can do that. And that wasn't true. So like cutting things when it's like seeing for what it is and moving on is the best part. Because then this will never happen to me when I'm going to do something much bigger than this. yeah, seeing the kind of it as a lesson, I think that's I'm sorry, I think we went over time. It's okay. No, no, no, you're perfect Victoria. No, no, absolutely. There is no time restriction. It's important to make sure that we get the podcast the best way that it can be. Absolutely. We can, absolutely. Victoria, I've loved today's podcast with you. I think it's been so insightful and so brilliant for teaching people. I know that so many people want to get in touch with you. So obviously if you're a young mind out there, 14 to 25, know, Victoria's got an amazing offer for you in terms of, being part this group and asking her the questions that you want to. So please take advantage of that. But also to anyone else, please also get in touch with Victoria. She has the most inspiring outlook just of life and people. You will get a no nonsense approach with her. I will just say that in a wonderful way. So she's a wonderful person to learn from in this industry. So Victoria, if people wanted to get in contact with you, where is the best place for them to do so? Thank you so much, Athena. Thank you. I think email or Instagram, I'm a bit slow on LinkedIn. ah So I think Instagram and email. I'll drop you my email over there. Yeah. just say your Instagram handle so that people can find you. so it's Victoria develops and for my email is victoria at soy.co.uk Perfect, that's wonderful. And as always, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official on Instagram and Girls and Property. So do come and drop into my DMs. They're always open for everybody. Come and tell me what you thought of this episode. And then just a couple of things from me. So for Girls and Property, couple of dates for your diary. Number one is on Saturday, the 5th of July, I am doing a summer beach party, if you like, down on Bournemouth Beach for the Girls and Property community. That's Saturday the 5th of July. So if you are a community member, please, please come and join. I think majority of you are and you've already sort of told me, but if you are interested in kind of making some in-person connections and wanting to come down to the beach, just DM me the word beach and let's have a conversation. So that's Saturday the 5th of July. And then the next one for your diary also is going to be on Friday the 12th of September. So Friday the 12th of September. I'm going to be hosting the second workshop, in-person workshop for girls and property. That's going to be for 20 people maximum down in Basingstoke at Audley Wood Manor House. The last one that I did back in June time with Sarah Smarsgot on social media algorithm was a huge success. And what we're going to be doing for Friday, the 12th of September is I'm going to be leading it. So this is going to be about business strategy and looking at where you are, where you want to be, how are we going to get you there? and looking at it more in terms of being property as a business, like cashflow, how are we going to do this? What are our goals? What are we setting and how are we really going to take that forward? It's going to be from 10 till four and I'm leading it so you know it's going to be a lot of fun. So if you want any information about that, just DM me the word workshop and let's have a chat. And as always, the community is open over a hundred members now. Come and join us, DM me the word community and let's get you started in property and business. Victoria, I would love to leave you with the last words for it. Oh, have you already put it in your diary? Yay! Victoria's gonna be there, guys. Saturday the 5th July, Victoria's there. Yes, girl, I love it. Action-taking. I was gonna say, I want you to be the one to have the parting words for the listeners today. What are the last words you would love for the listeners to hear on this podcast? ah Don't let your past define your future. Believe in yourself. and go for it. I'm sorry I'm not prepared but just... I couldn't have done that better myself. Honestly, that was perfect. I loved that. Believe in yourself. Don't let your past define your future. Create a new story, a new chapter, and always reach out to others who have walked the path that you want to walk, I think. I think that's such a powerful thing to say. And as Victoria said earlier, do your due diligence. Always. Always. And remember, you are your personal brand. uh Victoria, thank you so much for your time. Can't wait for this episode to go out. Bye.