Breaking the Burnout Cycle: A Shift Towards Sustainable Success with Akhtar Khan

Are you ready for this? He’s back… 

In this episode of The Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson is joined once again by renowned speaker and NLP coach Akhtar Khan. Together, they explore a topic that resonates deeply with many entrepreneurs and professionals. The topic of Burnout.

They begin by unpacking what burnout actually is, beyond just a popular term, looking at its symptoms, its emotional and physical impact, and how the constant pressure of hustle culture often leads people into a state of complete exhaustion.

Akhtar offers thoughtful insights on the importance of recognising burnout early, the dangers of being driven by fear, and why building in time for rest and recovery is essential, not optional. The conversation then shifts towards a more empowering approach, moving from a fear-based mindset to one grounded in flow, energy management, and intentional living.

Together, Athena and Akhtar delve into the importance of inner work, emotional healing, and listening to the body’s signals – particularly for women. They reflect on how working in alignment with our natural rhythms can lead to more sustainable ambition, allowing us to achieve without sacrificing our wellbeing.

This episode is a powerful reminder of the importance of self-awareness, support, and love, both in our personal and professional lives. It encourages listeners to reflect on their own journeys, embrace a more balanced way of working, and create space for trust, flow, and ease.

This conversation is for anyone who’s ever faced burnout, is currently navigating it, feels they might be heading in that direction, or simply wants to better understand how to avoid it altogether. Wherever you are on your journey, I hope this episode offers some comfort, clarity, and practical insight. And if it reaches just one person who needs to hear it today, then our job here is done. 

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Transcript

0:00

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. Okay. Are we ready boys and girls? We have the absolute legend that has come back to the podcast today. um originally we did a podcast together all about limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. And my goodness that the, was one of the fastest downloaded episodes that we've ever had. The messages that I received from it, because this person, psychoanalyzed me on the podcast and just gave value after value after value. And he is absolutely brilliant and has agreed to come back today to talk all about burnout, which let's face it, burnout is such a hot topic. Now, if you're listening to this podcast, I'm going to assume that you have either experienced burnout or you will feel like you're currently on the verge of having burnout. So let's really help you today. Let's really dive into it. Understand why it exists, understand the feelings around it, and let's really think about some solutions about how we can move forward in a positive way to try and avoid burnout going forward. So without further ado, I'm so excited to introduce back Akhtar Khan. Hey Akhtar. Hey, Athena, thank you for having me back. It's a pleasure and I'm excited about this. We're going to go deep down the rabbit hole of the topic of burnout. So yeah. We are, we are. And you know what? This was actually one of the ones I was most excited about. And I remember as soon as I came off the last podcast with you, I was like, Actile, you are coming on and we're doing all about burnout. And do you know, it's the first time I've actually, I shouldn't admit this, but it's the first time I've really sat down and almost thought what questions I really want to ask in this podcast as well to really do the deep dive. But just before you came on, you were like. Talking to me about what you wanted to really help give the most value today and it was perfect and it had the most beautiful narrative to it um So what we really want from today's podcast that we just discussed is we really want to give value on this podcast We really want to help as many people as we can out there So what I'm gonna say is is first of all, I will say that act are is one of the most Amazing people when it comes to understanding like the neurological way in which our brains work and the way in which the psyche works Now I'm going to ask that we give as much value on this podcast that if you want to understand the actor's story, then I'm going to ask you to go and listen to the limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome episode where you can hear actor's story and you can really get to know his journey into how he got into this. But so that we can dive straight into it today and get as much value as possible. I am going to first of all, go straight into it. So first of all, actor. Can you tell us what you are celebrating at the moment before we begin? Because we have to start the podcast in that way, otherwise it wouldn't be a Girls and Property podcast. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm celebrating right now just the expansion of what we're doing in our super conscious company. So we run a retreat recently. We've run a couple this year where we really help people to break through the traditional boundaries of success, like the upper limits in terms of mindset, but very rapidly help them to bring about changes. So we've had people that come through, have come through our retreats. They've had incredible growth and transformations, both on a business level and personal level. so much so that we've had one of the CEOs that came has invited us to do a private retreat for 25 members of his team. So we're doing that and we're actually doing a lot more work now. We're kind of getting out there, we're expanding. I didn't think that was gonna happen. I was kind of planning to cruise along, but we're expanding just because what we're doing, what we're teaching and the results we're getting for people is just really resonating and people need it. So we've grown in expanding and just spreading our message and changing lives. That's what we're doing, that's what we're celebrating. Wow, what fantastic celebration. And what I'm celebrating is I'm very, very excited at the fact that I mentioned to you, didn't I, Akta, that I really feel this sense of like, I can feel something in me that feels like I'm now ready to go to the next level. But I said to you literally just before we came on this podcast, because, you know, we're always really real and authentic and we want to try and help as many people as we can. So I'm going to admit the fact that I feel like before I can go to the next level, I've actually got quite a lot that I need to shed. in order to do so. And I said to you, like, feel like I'm carrying really heavy burdens of things that I potentially don't even know what they are, but I can feel like I'm carrying them. And what I'm most excited about and what I'm celebrating is that I'm going to come and do some work with you, aren't I? Which is really exciting. Around shedding that and around really opening up and really thinking, okay, what do I need to let go of in order to move forward so that I can become the best version of me that I can do. I have no idea what to expect. I'm extremely excited to do it, but I think it's something that we all need to do. It's all important to look within ourselves and understand us a bit more to be the best business owners that we can be. So I'm going to celebrate working with you. Absolutely, it's really, really beautiful. I'm so excited for you. I'm glad that you're all ready for it. And it takes a lot of courage to be able to let go of the things that we need to share because, as human beings, we tend to seek comfort. We tend to seek familiarity because it makes us feel safe or gives us the illusion of safety. So, you know, there's a big ascension for you coming up and I'm honored and privileged that you're trusting in me, trusting in my team. to walk with you on that path. It's very difficult to articulate it until you go through it and you go, oh, well, now know what it's like. Then you'd able to convey it to your listeners and your viewers. So yeah, I'm really excited for you, like so excited for you. Yeah, and you know what, if I'm honest with you, I reckon a year ago if we'd have had this conversation, a year ago I probably wouldn't have been ready, to be honest with you. I think a year ago I almost saw the baggage that I was carrying as almost like uh shields and almost like a badge of pride in what I had been through and I almost wasn't ready to let it go. But I think now what I'm learning is, there comes a point, and I don't know if any other listeners are listening to this and they're like, Athena, I feel you, I'm in exactly the same part of my journey. I feel like you almost can't allow yourself to move to the next level unless you actually let go, as it were, and almost allow yourself to let go and let other things in. And so that's the thing I'm looking forward to the most. So, yeah. Absolutely. And as we said before, I go through as much as I teach this and we, you know, we do a lot of work around this. I do this work with myself. So I live and breathe this stuff. You know, someone asked me the other day, why do you do what you do? Like, why don't you just go and have loads of businesses and loads of money? I'm not in love with the end goal. I'm in love with the journey, this journey, because this is the inner work that we need to do that literally ascends us and transcends us to levels of joy, happiness and fulfillment that's beyond the material. You know, we want, yes, we want to have the material things, but actually what's more important is fulfillment. If you've got both of those things, it's great, but it's like, you know, everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one necessarily wants to die. And sometimes a part of you has to die off on old pattern has to die off for the new version of you for the 2.0 or 3.0 version of you to emerge like a Phoenix out of the ashes. Love it and a perfect way to set up today's podcast. Brilliant. Okay, let's do it. Let's get into it. I am so buzzing for this because just to give a bit of background as well, just before we begin today's episode is like I said, I've got so many questions that I want to ask you and I know that there's a narrative we want to follow, but actor, if I'm really think about this and I'm curious to know your opinion about this, I think that I have experienced burnout. I believe that I have experienced burnout. And when people were to say, have you experienced burnout? My answer would be yes. But what I'm really curious to understand and know today is, how do we know that we have experienced burnout? How do we know that what we felt is burnout and actually not something else? how do we relate it to that? How do we know we went through that and sort of the intentional or the feeling around it? So where do you think is a great place to start for this podcast around burnout. Yeah, absolutely. think that's a great question. It's like, how do we identify what is burnout? So let's define it. Typically burnout tends to be like emotional, physical and mental exhaustion caused by prolonged stress. The problem that we have sometimes is recognizing when we're in that space, because you know, you, wherever you're going through, whether you're in a challenging work situation, whether you're going through a big project, whether you've got challenges at home and relationships, when we get stuck in that situation for a long period of time. We almost kind of normalize it and don't realize what effect it has on the body and the mind and our sense of wellbeing. So, you know, what tends to happen is there are some indicators. We tend to feel tired. We feel exhausted. We feel like we've lost our mojo. We can feel like apathy, can't be bothered to do anything. You know, just lose your zest for life. Just, you know, literally it's like there's no mojo going on because your nervous system is so taxed. You've had prolonged levels of stress. So it tends to be the first thing that we notice is just a dip in motivation and a dip in energy is what can happen. Or the other way could be that we become manic and go, I've got to do more, got to do more, got to do more. And then we're overwhelmed. If we're not at peace. I think what we'll do is towards the end of this podcast, we'll give people a framework of how to recognize when they are, if you like, in a state of stress and when they're in the opposite of stress, which we call rest or digest or a place of peace. So the key thing is so many of us have lived our lives in high stress situations or survival. Okay. And we're so used to it that we don't recognize what peace looks like. We don't recognize what not being overwhelmed looks like, you know, or just being able to do things from a place of ease. So the first thing really is to define what it is. It's just really having um that kind of almost sense of cynicism, depression, low energy, and just feeling like you've lost your mojo. um And overwhelm, and overwhelm is a big, part of it. We just feel like, how, you know what, to do the smallest thing, getting out of bed seems like a struggle. Oh, you know, just getting to that email list or, you know, whatever the daily tasks can be, the smallest thing can feel like it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. And that's normally a good indicator of being in a place of stress and overwhelm. Mm-hmm and you know overwhelm is such a massive massive topic I mentioned to you before we came on this podcast that in the girls and property community I'm I'm doing a session with with the girls I commit your accountability and I said what's the biggest thing that you feel like you're struggling with at the moment and the majority of the girls wrote that they're really struggling with overwhelm so talk to me about overwhelm then and how it links to burnout like Why do you think that we as entrepreneurs allow ourselves to even get to the state where we feel overwhelmed? Like how does this all come together? It's a great question, but I think it's almost like the disease of entrepreneurs, hustle and grind mentality and culture. You know, I used to get burnt out a lot during the early days of entrepreneurship. You know, I was talking 20 years ago, I was a younger man, very driven, had a family, young kids at home. And I bought into this idea that I've got to be, you know, 12, 15, hour days. And that was probably the biggest cause of burnout for me. And I see it with many, many people I work with. see it with, you CEOs, I see people at top level management. I see it right down to the solopreneur that's trying to get off the ground. It's hustle, grind, culture, and mentality. Now, the thing is I've bought into this in the past. What it do, you know, it brings about what we call boom and bust cycles. You know, you, you work like a Trojan for six months, your nervous system gets taxed. You will, you know, get tunnel vision. around other areas of your life. You neglect your health, you neglect relationships, you you just go, go, go because you've bought into this hustle grind mentality. It's just not sustainable. You know, just to be honest with you, when I was doing this, had a young family and I was, you know, was very aggressively building my property portfolio. And my, the mother of my kids and a partner at the time used to say that my property business was the other woman in our relationship. Looking back at the time, I was like, no, no, I'm just doing this for us. And we had this great lifestyle, but I wasn't always present and I wasn't present with her and the kids, but I was doing what I thought was right, which is hustle grind mentality. So this is a big, big thing that is, in my opinion, the disease of entrepreneurship because it's not sustainable. It leads to burnout. It leads to health challenges. It leads to relationship challenges. It can lead to a whole load of complications. And here's the thing. It doesn't have to be that way. And we'll talk about how we get out of that. So that's the first thing. think this is what leads to like a lot of overwhelming is just buying into that idea that, like you said, 5 a.m. ah know, ice baths, peak performance and everything else. I think we can have efficiency, but pushing ourselves beyond our capabilities is we're to pay a price for it down the line. And this is what I had early days. So I think the first part of it is like letting go of the hustle and grind mentality, you know, um especially with men, you know, it's like being driven tunnel vision, you know, grind it out. It doesn't have to be that way. And especially with women, I see this with a lot of the women that I work with. I mentioned to you, I'm working with a CEO right now, female CEO that's looking to build a group to 50 mil. She's on it, on it, on it all the time. I'm like, listen, you've got to slow down a little bit here, right? Because that's going to lead you to burnout. So, you he brought into the idea of I'm going to be a baddie, I'm going to be a boss bitch, I'm going to be this, that and the other. I'm like, you know what? You don't need to do any of that. Whether you're male or female, we can achieve what we want to achieve in business and life. from a place of rest. And I'll talk about that a little bit later on from a place of being calm. Because the problem is when we go into that hustle and grind mentality, we are operating from survival and fear. We're not operating from a place of thriving and thrive. Right. So that's the biggest thing. It's a simple distinction that makes such a massive difference of the energy that we're in. If we're in survival mode, you're going to push, push, push, you know, your body is going to go into that fight or flight response. So we're operating in that way on a daily basis. The problem is that part of our brain doesn't know the difference between us, ancestors stepping out of the cave and there being a saber tooth tiger versus, here's a challenge that we've got going on right now in day to day life. oh I think so, I don't know. I think she's little stressed out right now. Oh bless her. Well is she gonna be okay? Because I can hear the dog basically. Is she gonna be alright? Yeah, let me go slower out, otherwise we're gonna be stuck here at this. Right, give me a second. not gonna, I'm not gonna pause it. I'm just gonna wait for you. This is part of it. Yeah. Can I have the dog? Right guys. So what's really important to mention on this, right? And I want to prove something to you that this podcast, as you know, is all around showing up and all about progress over perfection. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna prove to you right now, nothing needs to be perfect. So I'm not gonna edit this podcast. I'm not gonna take this bit out of it. I'm gonna keep this in because at the end of the day, that's what reality is. It doesn't need to be perfect. This podcast will always be authentic and real. So just know that if you're ever going through anything and you're like, my God, like that actually happened to Athena, then at the same time, you know, know that you can also do something. So if you're real isn't quite perfect, if your post isn't quite perfect, If your investor pack isn't quite perfect, then that's absolutely fine because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Just make sure that you do progress over perfection and you'll be just fine. Um, Aktar, are you back now? I am back indeed and the dog is not so overwhelmed anymore. So we're all good. okay. And I just filled the gap there, just explaining about progress over perfection and that the fact that this podcast is all about that at the end of the day. So hopefully she's now settled and hopefully she can just relax and listen to the podcast. Absolutely. You mentioned perfectionism. It's another cause of like pushing ourselves too far. If you think about perfectionism, I call it a mental prism. The reason being is because we're trying to attain something that doesn't exist in reality, exists in fantasy in the mind. You think about something that's perfect. What is perfection? It's not really real. So we end up pushing ourselves to achieve things or really high expectations of self. This is another thing that can cause us to get burnt out because we're just pushing too far. Make sense? Yeah, definitely. And actually I'd love to touch on something that you said before, just before we had that little bit of a break. So you're talking about this idea of hustle culture, right? Now I'll admit to you, when I first started, and I'm sure most people have gone through this, when you're an entrepreneur, you have this sense of feeling like you have to be on it 24 seven because it's your business. And if you're not on it 24 seven, you feel like you're failing in your business because you're not paying it enough attention. And there's only you at the beginning. because let's face it, cash flows tight, so you can't really employ other people at the beginning, and you feel like you need to be the person that just keeps charging it. Now, I fell into this gap, and I remember what fueled me this whole way through it, if I'm honest, is I said things such as, I cannot fail, I cannot go back to the job that I had, I cannot let people who doubted me, I can't let them win. So what was actually fueling me was a negative stigma, because what was fueling me was thinking, I cannot fail from this. Now that literally put me on a trajectory where I had that hustle culture. I was that girl that woke up at God knows what time in the morning and was at my desk. I was that girl that skipped meals because I forgot to eat. I was that girl that forgot to go to the toilet. I was that girl that canceled on date night and canceled on friendships. I did all of those things thinking that that's what success looked like, but I was so wrong, like so wrong. So, Yep. advice would you give to starters? Absolutely. What you just said there, like it's a beautiful thing that you shared honestly and vulnerably. And also it's something that drives fear. So I don't want to fail. I don't want to be, you know, go back to my job. I don't want to go back. don't, I don't, I don't. This has been what we call away from motivated. We get what we focus in the mind. So if we focus on what we don't want, here's what happens. We start to create pictures in the mind of, I don't want those people, you know, who doubted me having a laugh or I don't want to go have to go back to the job. We create these mental images and pictures of what we don't And what that does, creates fear in us because your thoughts create your emotions, your emotions then drive your actions and give you the results you want. So if we're focusing on what we don't want, we are creating fear for ourselves. What that tends to do is we tend to like, it puts us in a fight or flight response. So we then go, I'm going to go over and above. I'm going to push, push hard. I'm going to work around the clock. I'm going to, you know, neglect date nights with my partner. I'm going to, you know, not eat, going to skip going to the toilet, whatever else, you know. sit there cross-legged, we're gonna push ourselves because we are literally in fight or flight. When our body goes into a fight or flight response, all it wants to do is to keep us alive. So if you think about this for a minute, and this is a really important distinction, because we go into it more than what we realize. If we are in a fight or flight situation, again, this is like, our minds have been designed to evolve and stay safe for millions of years. If our ancestor stepped out of a cave and there was a saber-toothed tiger, it's got two choices, really. It's like, do I run away from this thing? Do I fight it? Or do I freeze? and just stay still. What happens in the body is we literally go for a fight or flight response, which means that the the brain starts to divert all of the energy to the vital organs. Okay. It shuts everything else down. The digestive system, the nostrils flare up to take in more oxygen, blood pumps harder so we can run away or fight. We go into this overdrive to survive. That's what it does. And we've got tunnel vision. And when we go into that stress response and that fight or fight response, what happens is just the lower part of the brain is online. everything else conscious as light literally shifts and shuts down because it just wants to divert all of its energy, all of its internal resources to keep us alive. It's the fight or flight, run away from the problem or fight the saber-toothed The problem is when we are saying things to ourselves like, hey, I don't want to go back to that job. I don't want go back to that relationship. I don't want those people who doubted me to have the last say. We are putting ourselves inadvertently into that fight or flight response. And what we're doing then is instead of running away or fighting, you know, the saber tooth tiger, we're fighting our own thoughts, our own beliefs, yeah, our own, our own insecurities. So the thing to do to counter that is to focus on what you do want, right? Focus forwards, not backwards. So what you want to do is, Hey, you know what? I don't want be going back to the job, but what I do want is the financial freedom from my business or my property portfolio. What I do want is the people who doubted me, you know, kind of, I want to focus on people who are going to revere me and praise me and like acknowledge me for what I've done and what I've achieved. Does that make sense? We want to focus forward. So just this shift is so powerful to start focusing on what you do want, not what you don't want. Because the way the mind works, it will give you what you focus on. You get what you focus on. So if you're focusing on what we don't want, we create a massive amount of stress. And I was there early days. It's like, I didn't want to go back to my previous job that I was in. I was traveling in and out of London. It was super stressful. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to spend more time with my family. So I was very much fear driven early days. I was also caught up in the mental prison of perfectionism. And I also had a lot of deeper emotional wounds and PTSD from my childhood that was running in the background as well. And I think that some people can touch on them in a moment because these are some things that drive us as well. know, feelings like feeling inadequate, not good enough, trying to prove yourself. For me, there was a lot of stuff around needing approval, especially from my father, because my father wasn't really around. He wasn't the kind of father that... but be like, well done son. So I was always searching for unconsciously searching for his approval through success. So we have these deep drivers and multitude of them that can all contribute to us putting ourselves into this very toxic state of being of beings in, in fight or flight being in survival mode. So how we get out of this, I've given you some strategies here is we need to understand fundamentally our nervous system's got two ways of operating. It's going to go into what we call sympathetic, which is fight or flight or parasympathetical, which is rest and digest. If we want to put this into the context of entrepreneurship, hustle and grind, victimhood, those kinds of thought processes lead to fear, which lead us to drive ourselves a bit too hard. The opposite of that is when we get into a state of flow, when we get into a state of trust, when we get into faith. And I'm not talking about religion here, I'm just talking about having a mindset of faith that things are going to work out for you. There is nothing more important, and this is what I teach to a lot of the high-end guys that I work with, in fact, anyone that comes into our space. there's nothing more important than your state of being because when you are in a calm, relaxed state of being, your emotional energy will give you confirmation bias towards your thoughts. So for example, say, you know, we can be in a state of being where we go, hey, I'm relaxed and chilled. Okay, something's happened. Whatever it may be, we'll look at it from the perspective of a positive viewpoint. We could be stressed in the same experience. We can look at it from a different perspective, which will lead us down one or two paths. So there's nothing more important than our state of being. And this is going to be again, counterintuitive to hustle and grind cat culture and mentality. Because what I say to people is this, right? If you want to be a peak performance athlete or peak performance entrepreneur, three things athletes do, they train, they perform and they rest in equal measures. And we don't do enough of the resting and relaxation. The rest and relaxation is going to calm your nervous system. It's going to give you time to... get out of that fight or flight response and calm yourself down or calm yourself into a peaceful state. And here's the beauty of this. When we allow ourselves to go into that much more peaceful state, ideas come to us, things flow to us, solutions come up. All that struggle, all that hustle and grind is not necessary. Hmm, do you know what's really interesting is I'm just trying to think about the types of listeners and I'm trying to think about how I can how I can help because I'm I'm I'm one of them if that makes sense and so what's really tricky I think is I'm still in this this element myself where You're talking about this element about resting and you're absolutely right But I tell you what's one of the hardest things to do. It really is because what happens is is like for example I've been working back to back like every single day and even on the weekends I've already committed myself to various events that I promised that I would go to. What I should be doing is I should be actually saying, I'm sorry I can't go to that. I need to protect my energy. I need to protect myself. I reckon I have had only one day off and even then it seemed friends and family. So that's not even a full day off just for me. I've had like one day off continuously and only that day off for the last, I don't know. four months, five months, where I haven't even taken a whole day just for me, because I'm either at a networking event, I'm either at a speaking event, I'm either hosting an event, honestly. And I think what happens to me is, and I don't know if the listeners will relate to this, is I have this idea about I must take every opportunity, because if I don't take every opportunity, then that could have been the thing that made me, that could have been the thing that took me to the next level. And I find it really interesting that you're like, well, no, resting is to be part of that. And I hear about people talking about boundaries all the time and the notion of saying no. And I am the worst person when it comes to saying no. I find it really difficult. like, sometimes I feel like I'm a people pleaser and that's actually not a good way to be. And so what would you say about that? What would you say to people that are constantly saying yes to things? Yeah, great. just brilliant nuggets there that come out. So if you're saying yes to things and people pleasing, people pleasing is a trauma response normally linked back to a fear of rejection. Okay. The thing I want to pick up on is you said that, you know, it's almost like you've got FOMO fear of missing out. If I don't go, don't do this thing. This will be the thing that will make me okay. um It's a common trap that a lot of people fall into. It's like, I don't want to miss out on an opportunity. This thing here might lead and give me my big breakthrough. The thing that's going to make you isn't external, Athena, right? It took me a long time to work this out. What's going to make you is doing the inner work. Right? Okay. Okay. It's, it's going to be doing the inner work. It's going to be knowing that deep down inside you are enough. You don't need this external thing to validate you or this external opportunity to make you. I did it for a long time. It was like I was chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And what I realized, it took me a long time to realize actually the pot of gold is within. It's within. that's quite difficult and I just want to push back on that because what happens is, by the way, I have no doubt that this is something that we think and essentially it's not the truth. I'm very aware of that. But what we think as, let's say property entrepreneurs, because this is what the majority of the listeners are, we think to ourselves, yeah, but my investor might have been at that networking event. A speaking opportunity might be the thing that gets more girls into the community. uh That workshop that I did is the thing that's gonna then lead then women to then book onto the community and then go to the retreats, et cetera. And it's constantly leading back to, but the business needs to grow, the business needs to succeed, the business needs to have this fuel that goes behind it. And so that's where the fear of missing out comes from. It's the notion of I have to show up for my business, my business needs to grow because I need to put myself in the rooms to help it to grow. And I think where we almost feel that within us, you know, and that's tricky. Absolutely. you know, let's, think it's an important point. I'm not saying don't do those things. What I'm saying is the energy that we go about doing that stuff. Because what happens is if there's FOMO, hey, I've got to build the business. I've got to do all this stuff. It's the energy that we're coming from. Yeah. If it's that, if I don't do this, it's not going to build. What I'm saying here is do the same things, but from a different energy. Yeah. Which is, which is instead of chasing, we can attract. That's the distinction because what happens is when we're in fear, we're chasing, chasing, we go into that hustle. Whereas if we go, know what? I'm just going to trust that everything's going to work out. I'll still go to my events. I'll still go to the things. If I decide to take a day off or a week off or a month off, everything will still keep working and it will work itself out. But it's trusting that everything's going to happen and it will scale. This is going to seem very, very illogical. When we come out of that kind of hustle grind culture, we will have all our fears surface. You know, I've done this with people, even recently I did what I call a CEO day with people where I spend like a one day intensive with them. And I'm telling them, look, all this stuff you're doing, stop. Okay. Stop what you're doing. Okay. And the first thing that happens is all their fears come up. What if this, what if that, what if I miss out? What if I don't make money? What if I don't get the opportunities? They'll come. So what happens is, you know, when we start to shift into this place of flow, those things will come to you, but they'll come to you almost even easier, easier. A client of mine said to me yesterday, this is one I just recently worked with. She's like, act out things that just landed on my lap. How, how did that happen? It's because she's not chasing any more things that coming to her and she's in a place of alignment, alignment with herself, but alignment with people and opportunities around her. So we want to get into a place of alignment. This is why our state of being is so important. We can do all of those things and achieve those results without the stress, the fear, the overwhelm, the fear of missing out. Because what we're doing is shifting from a place of like fear, survival. into a place of thriving. that and that's perfect and that was great and I'm thinking to myself about what you said earlier and almost thinking about the antidote or the the opposite to it. So we spoke about hustle culture earlier which is so prevalent in as entrepreneurs and I know that we've all been through it I've got nose out. What's the opposite of the hustle culture? What would you say was the opposite that we should be doing? Absolutely. So really, this is what I teach in our space. It's what we call like becoming a super conscious entrepreneur. All the stuff that we're discussing here is about things that people aren't always consciously aware of. This is quote from Carl Jung, right? Famous psychologist. Until we make the unconscious conscious, we will keep repeating the same patterns and thinking it's right? So it's really important for us to become conscious, yeah, and just become more aware of these things. Once we become conscious, of these patterns of these things that keeping us stuck, we can then see what the antidote is. And the antidote here really is getting yourself into the right energetic space. It's the energy that you're in. It's the emotional state that you feel in on a day to day basis. Now people start to say, this is getting a bit woo-woo. This is all backed by neuroscience. Okay. We can either be, there's only really two emotions. There's love and fear. Okay. Everything else is a subset of that. So we can either choose to be in fear. Right. And sometimes, you know, if you're in that hustle, it will get you moving and doing things right. But it's only going to take you to a certain point. If we are in the opposite energy, which is love, love, gratitude, faith, trust, when we're in that energy, what happens is we're a lot more calmer and we can achieve things quicker because here's what happens when we go into fear. Fear creates urgency within us. You know, it's like we have to when we're in that fight or flight response, we've got to think quick, do things quickly. Everything gets better. Have you noticed that when you're in a space of fear or stress, There's massive urgency and you think time's like shrunken, you haven't got enough time to do it. That's where the urgency comes through. That's the survival response, which is like, Hey, we've got to get out of the way of the saber tooth tiger. When you're in the opposite of that, what happens is we slow down and when we slow down, time expands. have more time to think more time to react more time to do things. And ultimately like time is not really real. It's a construct in the mind. It's a useful construct. But when we step into that space, which is what I call the super conscious space, everything expands, then we're not making these like quick decisions and fear-based decisions. You can actually slow down and mind opens up because we basically when we go into fear and we have that stress response, the logical part of the mind goes off light. Okay. What we do is we open that part of the mind up, we open up the flow state, we open up our high levels of consciousness. Even in this state, when we practice this state, this is where intuition gets really strong and psychic abilities start to drop in because then we actually have access to all of our mind, all of our consciousness. and then things just drop into place and they just flow easily. This is like why when you're on the beach somewhere or you're having that moment in the shower, some idea just drops to you. Why? Because you're in that right state of being. So, you know, it's taken me a long time to work this out. And I used to, you know, there was a time when I bought in Tarsen Grinders, a time I used to be in the 5M club, time when I used to do ice baths. I don't advocate any of that stuff anymore. I think it's great if you want to do it for a time, but actually how long is it to last? And the other thing is I'm older now, like I'm in my fifties, right? I can't do that stuff. I don't want to do that stuff. So how do we become super efficient in what we do? It's that simple. We literally get ourselves into the right state of being. And once we can live in that right state of being, we will attract the right opportunities to us. We won't be living in fear. We won't be living in survival. And you'll be surprised, Athena, when we're in this energetic space, things will happen just almost like our miracles. You know, I decided before Christmas to sort of semi-retire. It didn't quite work out. oh Not in a bad way, it's just we expanded. Why? Because I was in a much more relaxed state of being. I'm not pushing anything. I'm not trying to... And it's just things have just expanded way beyond what we could have imagined because we live and breathe this. When I say we, me and my team, this is what we do. We practice this way of being. It's a much nicer way to work. It's a much nicer way to do things. And what you'll see is when you start living in this energy, in this space... of being conscious of being in that state of love, trust, faith. What happens is like, we just get to do more and achieve more, but we enjoy life in a much more balanced way because we haven't got tunnel vision anymore. So you're not, you know, skipping on date nights. You aren't, you know, not eating or, you know, grabbing a sandwich last minute from the petrol station. You're actually taking the time out to really consciously do the things that you need to do in a way that's going to be best for you. Why the difference and the distinction is we're not operating in fear. We're operating from the energy of love, peace. We're not in fight or flight. We're not in our sympathetic arousal system, in our nervous system. We're in parasympathetic. This is where the magic really happens. Is there, would you call it like, is there a name for it? So you've got hustle culture. What would we call the opposite if we put a name to it? I would call it being a super consciousness. That's what we call it. You know, there's different people, different experts out there that will call it something different. think you've used to look at someone like Deepak Chopra. He'd call it the field of pure potentiality where your mind is expanded. Jody Spencer calls it, I think, the quantum field. It's about being in that state of being where you're not caught up in your thought processes and your fears. So the opposite of hustle culture, I would call it, maybe flow is probably a better way. A better word would be flow, like flowing in your business, because that tends to be the state that we live in. I've got a visual model that I'll share with you, Athena, of what I call the four levels of consciousness. At the very bottom, you've got victimhood, which is poor me, why is this happening? Why do bad things happen to me? Why is it not working? This is where we're kind of at the effect side of the cause and effect equation. The next level up from that is what we call hustle and grind. You know, it's like, I've got to hustle my way to stuff. Both of those, if you like, ways of being or consciousness are based in fear. The next level up for that, is when we come into love, faith, trust, is when we get to flow. This is where things are flowing, where we trust in ourselves, we trust in our higher power, trust in the universe. And then beyond that is what I call the crater. When you get into that state there, this is where you can manifest whatever you want, because you start to see that you are, you have the ability to manage your state, manage your being, and you have enough evidence to see things dropping into your lap. You know, you see things that go, hey, I don't need to be afraid of missing out. I don't need to be afraid of taking a night off because guess what happens? I took a night off. was worried about missing something out and someone just randomly sent me a message saying, Hey, can you come and do this for me? Or, you know, can I, can you come and speak somewhere or, Hey, you know what? Um, someone's interested in investing. So sometimes it's not the way that we think we'd like it to happen. That we get the result when we're in that state of being and the right state of being, things will flow to us in other ways. And it's just being open to receiving that, you know, if you're stuck in that place, we go, Hey, I don't want to miss out. Just try it out. Like give it a go, just take like a week or a month and go, look, I'm just going to practice this way of being and see what happens. Most people are pleasantly surprised when we get people coming to our space, especially like the high end guys that are in finance and, know, mergers and acquisitions, they're all like a hundred miles an hour. Like my, my, my first thing is like, look, you're not going to step up and get to that next level being a hundred miles an hour. I actually slow you down. I slow the guys down and they're like, oh my gosh, like they fight me sometimes. They don't want to do it. You know, they've been so used to hustle grind and all their fears come up and all their insecurities come up and all their traumas come up. But they fight me initially and then they go, actually, this is a way better way of doing things. And they've been more successful and their lives are way more balanced. I mean, just one guy that comes to mind, uh Swedish client of mine runs a finance company. He, when he first came and joined us, like he got on calls with us and he'd be talking about eight different things at the same time. I couldn't keep track. I'm like, well, massively in, you know, hustle, fight or flight. Now when he gets on the call, he pauses and he tells us one little section at a time. His kids are in the background. Wife comes on and says hi on Zoom. Living a much more balanced life, but his business has literally accelerated. This was a guy that came to one of our retreats and two weeks after, sorry, I think it was two months afterwards, landed a $13 million contract. Why? Because he was in the energy of rest and digesting. The other thing is this, if you aren't going to go out and meet people, your JV partner, your investor or the opportunity. When you're in that energy of fight or flight or hustle, people will feel it and they'll feel the fear in you. They'll feel that neediness or they'll feel the desperation. Whereas if you're in a much more softer energy, it's much more neutral. You'll find that you'll close more deals or you have more people come up. They won't be consciously aware of it because when it comes to communicating, only 7 % is the words, 38 % is the tone of voice we use, but 55 % is body language and energy. So they'll just pick up on your energy and go, ah, I like, they won't be conscious of it. They'll just go, I like how this person feels. You know, it's like your intuition, your gut feeling that there's something not right about that person or something really right about that person. So again, it's another reason why we want to get into the state of being being in float. Let's call it float for now. Hmm, I think that's perfect. I think to be honest with you, that's the thing I'm looking forward to the most and hopefully the listeners listening to this are really thinking about themselves as well, which is I 100 % operate at a hundred miles an hour and I'm very aware of that I've been told many times that I talk far too fast. I'm trying to slow down especially for the podcast and It's because my mind thinks very very quickly And sometimes I can absolutely be that person, I'm very conscious of it, where I can have lots of different thoughts shooting around my brain. So for example, if I'm doing uh event planning and I'm speaking to the event host, I'm talking about four things at the same time to them. And they're like, hold on, Athena, slow down, we need to go back to this one. And I'm almost thinking to myself, why aren't you going as fast as I'm going? And that's almost what my brain is doing. I'm like, well, I'm going very quickly, keep up. And you know what, it's been wonderful where people who are very close to me uh have been saying to me recently, and I've absolutely been listening to them, and I can't wait for you to tell me this, because you will tell me to slow down, actor, I've got no doubt, is they've all said to me, Athena, if you just slow down, if you just take a moment, you will go faster. And I actually say this, I'm such a hypocrite, because I say this to some of my mentees, the saying that I say to them is, slow down to go faster. um I always say this to people when they're looking at three, four deals at the same time. I'm like, okay, well, let's just look at this deal first. And I say to them, slow down to go faster. But then they say, Athena, you can't talk. And I'm like, yeah, fair enough. So what you just said, they're really, really uh struck a chord with me because I wonder what that would feel like to feel because I've done it for 33 years being so fast that I wonder what it would feel like. to go slower and if I would feel that that was counterproductive, counterintuitive when I've got so much to do in the day, I would be really interested in that. I'm sure like after you've worked with me, you're going to have an experience. So maybe what we'll do is have a podcast about your experience because ultimately what we're doing here, this is my personal belief because I used to be like that. I almost used to have take pride in spinning multiple plates. Look, I've got this, this, this, I'm spinning all these plates. Look at me. Um, but actually I wasn't spinning each of those plates at a hundred percent effectiveness. And it was taken a lot of time. And as I mentioned, it cost me a relationship and you know, all the other stuff that goes with it. When I look back on myself and I look back on a lot and then, you know, I've worked with hundreds of thousands of hours of coaching over the last 25, 30 years. What I tend to see with people, it's the blessing and curse of being an entrepreneur is yes, we can think that way. We can be a hundred miles an hour. We can hold three or four thought processes at the same time. In my experience, it's normally been hypervigilance as a trauma response. Okay. So you, you know, you see people that can do this. They're not completely peaceful because their mind is going off. They're calculating the next 10 moves ahead. It's great, but it's a trauma response. And I found with me, as I did a lot more deeper healing, what happened was those plates started to come down one by one, and I took them down, I took them down, I took them down. And I realized I didn't need to do all that stuff. I was overcompensating, trying to do too much because there's this underlying fear or trauma that was going on running, you know, running in the operating system of my mind. So we can, we can literally. reduce the amount of head space that we're taking up and just focus that energy on just one thing that's gonna, or two things or three things maximum, that are gonna give you maximum leverage. Exactly. And I think that's so important. I've always said that sometimes we can become busy fools within our own businesses. And I'm, am the worst when it comes to that. I am the busiest fool. The amount, the amount of DMs and messages that I get from people. And if you've ever DM me this listeners, that's going to make you laugh where people have said, Athena, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you do everything that you do. I don't, I don't understand it. And my answer to them literally is it's because I don't stop. That's the answer. And that's not a positive thing. It's not a positive thing to be a person that doesn't stop. Like sometimes there's no lunch break, sometimes there's no stopping. And so what I'm trying to do going forward and I'm trying to be the best advocate for it is to say, actually, rest is part of this. I want to go back to something you said earlier, which was the athlete. And I want to make sure that we have this conversation between us, which is you must rest. Rest needs to be part of the process. and I do not rest enough, 100%, and that's something that I'm still learning, that's something I'm trying to improve upon. But what would you say about that actor to try and give advice about rest being as important as the hustle? Absolutely, it's equal. here's what I'm gonna say. really guys, girls, guys tattoo this on the inside of your eyelids, okay? Resting is productive, right? Resting is productive. Because what happens during rest, okay? If you rest and relax, guess what happens? Your nervous system comes out fight or flight. If you do nothing and you sat in the park or you sat in the garden. Right, you're doing nothing. What will happen is your mind will be worrying, but eventually it will slow down and you will wind down and get yourself back into the right state of being, right? You're gonna come out of fight or flight. You're gonna go into your parasympathetic nervous system. You're gonna go into rest and digest. And guess what? All those problems that you're worrying about, you'll be like, actually, why was I worrying about that? Here's a solution for it. Or it will come, right? So resting is so important. The other thing is this idea of, m Sleep is for, you know, for the week and all that kind of stuff. There is no substitute for sleep. Right. There is absolutely no substitute for sleep. So, you know, staying up till two, three o'clock in the morning, not allowing yourself to rest again, it's hustle culture. You will shorten your life. And remember, guys, I'm telling you this because I've done all this stuff. I've been burnt out many times. I'm older now. Right. And I've got to the point where I'm like, hey, you know what? I do not want to be filling my days out being a busy fool, spinning too many plates. I enjoy taking my dog for a walk and sitting in the park. you know, taking my shoes off and getting grounded and put my feet on the grass and literally just being present in the moment. Because when you're present in the moment, you practice this way of being and you can use all sorts of methodologies, you know, listening to some guided meditation, you know, breathing exercises, box breathing, there's simple things you can do to get you present. When you're present in the moment, you're not focusing on the past and you're not thinking of the future, okay? Fear normally exists from past memories. Anxiety is when we focus on the future. If you're in this moment right now, Yeah, your nervous system is calm. So if you can take five minutes out of your day to do that, even 10 minutes out of your day, once or twice a day, you're going to start calming your nervous system. So rest and relaxation, even if it's for a short period of time, it's not how long you do for, it's about how quickly you can get your nervous system back to a place where you're settled. That's the first thing. So practicing that throughout the day is a great thing to do. Like, you know, meditation twice a day for 15 minutes is like the equivalent to two hours sleep. It really does help because what we're doing here is getting the nervous system and set. Allowing yourself to sleep properly is great. And I think one of the things that we can do and I think we're going to do with you, Athena, is starting to put boundaries in place and prioritizing yourself. Okay. Cause when we go into fight or flight, all we're doing is we're going into survival mode. We and everything else just gets thrown out the window because all we're trying to do and the brain doesn't know the distinction between this is going to kill me. Yeah. It's a saber-toothed tiger, or I've to go take that opportunity. I've got to find the next investor or the next. All of it comes down to survival. So we want to come out surviving and get into thriving. So just getting into that space and starting to put boundaries around when you're available. For me, I'm not available after 5, 6 p.m. I'm not available at the weekends. That's it. You know, I'm not on WhatsApp, right? I'm on WhatsApp for a certain amount of time after that I'm switched off. I have gatekeepers. Why? Because I have to massively protect my energy so that I can be in the right state of being to do what I need to do on a personal level. to serve the people I want to serve, but also I've got a team behind me now, right? Got large team that's growing. I need to be the example for them to show them how to do things. And, know, we're speaking about this earlier on. You know, I want to make sure that not just me, I'm in this way. I want to make sure that my team are this way. And I say this to my team, I've got a lot of women on my team. I get them to, you know, be honest about what's going on with them. And I want to make sure they're not in that state of stress or overwhelm. The minute I see that, I'm like, take something off your plate or let's give it to someone else. because we're not going to work optimally. They're not going to work optimally. I want my team to be happy and productive and I want them to be in that space of thriving because I genuinely care about them. I want them to be in that workspace. So, you know, we just make sure that we are doing whatever we can to be in that state of being prioritizing and setting boundaries, prioritizing self-care. So, you know, I had a CEO, female CEO call me and she's like, I've had this stressful day. What do I do? And she's asking for like the solution. I'm like, go run a bubble bath, switch your phone off. De-stress and we'll talk about the solution tomorrow. That's it, you know take take some time out She's like I don't really do that. I we'll start doing it again, right train, right? Perform and rest in in those equal measures. So I think it's really important and you know You start to make that a way of being for yourself You'll find that when you do that You will start to become way more happier and also way more productive and way more successful. It's so counterintuitive and illogical to what we've been taught, but it works. And this is how we were able to get people massive shifts with what we do, whether it's our coaching programs or our community or our retreats, is because we take people through this process first of calming their nervous system down, uncovering what's driving their behavior and then give them a clear path forwards. Hmm. I love that and you know something that that's really helping me to move forward with this in what you're saying is all about understanding daily habits I think habits is such a big part to all of this So when you're saying things such as you know, we turn our phone off we do this It's like that needs to become part of your daily habit. So for example, I I I I tried doing this thing and I'm trying my hardest, but I've got really bad habits that have been instilled with me for a very long time. And so trying to unwind those habits and bring in new habits is quite a difficult thing, but I'm getting there slowly, slowly. I'm not perfect, but it's going there. So I'm reading this book called Atomic Habits at the moment by James Clear, which is fantastic. I highly recommend that everybody read it. And for me, one of the things is, is I'm one of those people that is addicted to my phone. Like I'm addicted to my phone basically. And so I'm that person that the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning, when I'm horizontal in bed before I've even like opened my eyes and listened to the birds and let the day in is I'm already in my DMs. I'm already looking at my emails. Literally I'm in bed. And that's such a bad habit to have. Like I don't recommend that anybody do that. um And you know, this notion of bed and going to bed quite late and things. If I was to say actually one of the things I need most, above money, above anything is I need eight hours of sleep. Like I'm a woman. I need sleep. Sleep and food. Sleep and food is what I need. But it's a really interesting one. So when you were just speaking now, I was thinking something that I would recommend to the listeners to do is to think about what positive habits you can instill in your daily life in order to do this, whether it's journaling in the morning, meditation for 15 minutes, like what is your thing and your habit that you're going to instill today? to create a healthier you um all around, I would say. Yeah, I think it's a brilliant idea because we can, I it's not a great thing to pick up your phone or, you know, first thing in the morning or to have it in bed with you before you drift off to sleep and, you know, wake up with the phone next to your bed and stuff. I've been there and I've done it. I know what it's like. I think you're absolutely right about habits. If you start introducing new habits slowly and things like, you know, let's meditate, let's journal or you know what, I'm just going to sit and be present with myself for a moment. you know, or 15 minutes or five minutes is really going to make such a massive difference, like such a massive difference to your energy and your state of being. Again, like the thing I drumming to people all the time, there is nothing more important than your state of being on a personal level. Why not be peaceful, joyful, happy, you know, throughout the day, but also from a business perspective, if you want to ascend and you want to grow quickly, it's about getting your nervous system in the right place. When you're calm and relaxing, you'll able to achieve way more in a short period of time. So I think the thing to do is to prime yourself up for the day. What's gonna be a morning routine that I can get up and do? I don't get up with alarms. I just wake up when my body wants to wake up, right? That's it. And I'm normally pretty rested. I'm like, okay, what do I wanna do today? The first thing for me is how am gonna enhance my state of being? Do I take the dog for a walk? Do I go sit out in nature? Do I put on some music in the background? Do I burn some incense here? What do I need to do? What do I wanna do to get myself into that right state of being? Then for me, it's like the first four hours of the day are the days where it is the time of day where I'm going to be peak, okay? In terms of what I perform, right? Four hours a day, where I've got the most head space, most mental clarity. That's what I do. And after that, everything else becomes a secondary thing and not as important. I only want to work four hours a day maximum. And then in the afternoon, I'll go do something else that's fun or enjoyable or that's going to, again, nourish my soul. It's going to help me to get my nervous system back into that state of being. That's it and you can operate from that place. You can do all the things you need to do if you come back to that and make that the new baseline. So, you know, being able to wake up to smell the coffee and do things. Otherwise your days, your days are just gonna be filled with doing stuff, spinning plates, being busy, being the busy fool. And we spend too much time working, not enough time in living life and enjoying life. And we can enjoy, we can do both. I'm a massive believer that you can have your cake and eat it. You might need to make some compromises, but you can enjoy every moment of your life and still work. build your business, have the wealth, abundance that you need. And it's just about getting yourself into this right state of mind. Yeah, definitely. One question I've got for you, Akhtar, is let's say that somebody listening to this is going through burnout at the moment and so they've decided to tune in and they can feel like they're going through burnout and they feel it within them. What would you say, like, what things could they do to start healing from that and helping them through it? Yeah, great question. The things to recognize, the first thing is to stop and listen to your body, like really listen to your body. A lot of the time we push ourselves and when we're going to fight or flight, the body almost becomes desensitized, right? The reason for that is if we're out fighting the tiger, say the toothed tiger or the bear, the body doesn't feel pain. Why? Because it needs to keep itself alive. It's almost like it dulls the senses. So when we're in that state of being, the first thing to do is just check in with yourself and go, what do I need right now? Do I need rest? Do I need food? Do I need nourishment? When I get clients of mine that have got to a point where they're either burnt out or especially with women when it's their time of the month, I'm like, okay, listen, forget all the work stuff and all the other stuff. What do you need right now? I need rest, I need food, I need sleep, I need a cuddle, I need to be with someone or whatever. Go and look at what you need first and give yourself what you need or get that from either partners, family members, a supportive community. That's the first thing to do. The second thing to do would be to find out or discover what caused the burnout, what's been driving you. What's the fear behind it? What's the story or narrative you're telling yourself? What's the trauma that's under the surface that's driving your behavior and pushing you? What are you afraid of? That's really where we need to get to because part of this stuff is gonna be giving us what we need on a physical, emotional, and spiritual level. The second part of it is like, let's find out what the cause is so we can challenge some of those things, challenge some of those beliefs that we've got. and get you refocused. That's, know, I have a lot of people that come to me, especially like high level people that are running companies that have burnt out or, their relationships on the rock or their health is in trouble because of prolonged stress. Ultimately, you know, let's think about what we're doing, right? Your business, whatever you're doing, whether it's property or otherwise, your business is not the end goal. It's the vehicle to get you from where you are now to where you want to be, which is you living life on your terms, right? You living life according to your values. So we don't have to put ourselves through such pain, stress, overwhelmed to get there. There are better, easier ways of doing things. And if you're not sure, find yourself a mentor, like go to Athena, go find a mentor, go find a specialist. If it's something deeper, go find a professional that can work with you to get you back on track. Cause a lot of the stuff that we do is driven by our thought processes. If we can change and understand what's going on there, we can rest and nourish the body. We can get ourselves back into healthy habits and get ourselves back on track. Yeah, definitely. And actually you touched on something just then and actually we spoke about it very briefly before the podcast and I said, no, stop, hold it for the podcast. So I think this is an important thing to mention is you said that you work with quite a lot of female CEOs and the recent retreat that you did, you had a lot of females on there and you do talk about this notion of working with your, your menstrual cycle. So just for, for sort of the female listeners and actually the male listeners to help your partners. um Let's talk about that. So what information, what advice would you give with it? Absolutely. So one of the things I did in this is a system I set with one of my team is that a lot of the time, if you bought into hustle and grind culture, if you bought into being, Hey, I'm going to be a baddie or a boss bitch, whatever else that almost assumes that you can go a hundred miles an hour, like nonstop. And one the things I had, had one of my, one of my team come to me and she was like, act, I'm like really feeling bad right now. What is it? And she's like, I just can't focus and I can't concentrate and I can't perform. Like I was like a week or two ago. What's going on? So I kind of discussed with her, is there external things going on? Is there stresses, there's family problems? And I just said to her, where are you in your cycle? She said, oh, actually, maybe that's what it is. The thing to bear in mind is that we've all, know, say we, you ladies have all got a natural rhythm. So if you look up the phases of your cycle, each week, you're going to have a different energy in a different state. So you'd have one week of the month where you can be like hundred miles an hour. You can be on top of things. You'd have another week where things are to be a little bit lower. You'd have obviously the week where you have your period. Like one of things I say is to work with your cycle, whether you're doing this, you know, from a gym training perspective or your workload perspective, just tune into yourself. Right. So one of things that I have done with my team and some of the CEOs is to put in your calendar, what phase you're going to be of your cycle on what week and plan accordingly. Right. So if you know, you're going to hate, you know, this is your week of your cycle, your period, you know that, you know, typically how you are doing that week. you know, then adjust accordingly. Now, look, I did this for a couple of reasons. Obviously, I'm, you know, a mature man. I've been in many relationships. I've got teenage daughters. I had to time how they were and what to do and, you know, to really take care of them. So I think the first thing is for you ladies just to time your cycle and just see where you're at and time your diary and schedule and workload accordingly and give yourself time off, give yourself like, you know, rest and downtime. Just know that sometimes you can't do stuff. I've seen it with my daughters can't really go to school because there is so much pain because of cramps. I'm like, okay, let's build a nest on the sofa. Let's get you some cushions and do a hot water bottle. What snacks do you want? You know, and then, you know, I'll sit and watch chick flicks with you. That's what you want, right? So it's about understanding that you've got a natural rhythm. We can only go with our natural rhythm, whether it's your cycle or whether it's your energy levels or whether you're sick. We can't push past that. So ladies, you know, highly encourage you to just map out your cycle, use flow app or whatever you need to. and just plan accordingly and give yourself the rest. There's times you can be a hundred miles an hour, times you're to be 50 miles an hour. That's the first thing. People out there, you know, they've got partners or gents that listening, understand this and support your partners and just again, go with their cycle and understand where they're at and what they need. If you've got a team behind you, one of the things I do with my team is we've implemented this with my team. And I said to my team, listen, if you need to take time off or you're not feeling well or whatever else, it's absolutely fine. Just say so, and just to, you know, to kind of... make it easy for them to have a slow week and what we do is pass the work on and they can take time off whenever they need and we don't pressure them to do stuff. We just made it really easy. They can go, Hey, look, you know what? I'm feeling shit today or I'm feeling tired or I'm not mentally there. Okay, great. What do you need right now? I need some rest. Okay, go take some rest and someone else will take over your work. So it just means that they're not adding stress. They can go and get what they need. And this is really important. So, you know, I just see where I have so many CEOs, female CEOs, they look at me and they're like, actor, how do you know this stuff? And they're in their forties and they're like, I've never had someone tell me this. I'm like, look, I'm just telling you from what works. So again, what does this come down to? It's not understanding yourself. It's really just understanding what you need and stop trying to push past what our physical capabilities are. Cause we can't do this fight or flight thing. It's designed to work for a few minutes to get us out of the way of the saber tooth tiger, prolonged stress, prolonged fight or flight is just going to lead to, but our systems can't handle it. Yeah, it's really interesting that you should say that because one, I've never really taken the time to really think about that myself or to work in that way. But what I can tell you is, is what's happened to me in situations is, you know, I've either been on my period or leading up to it or things, but when I probably should have rested, the one thing I constantly say is, I don't have time to rest. I don't have time. This needs doing, this needs doing. The deadline is in two days. The deadline is in a day. I've got to finish this. And one thing that my partner always says to me is one of your favourite things to say is, I don't have time to do that. I don't have time to do that. He's like, you say that repeatedly. And I'm like, yeah, because I don't have time to do it. And I think that what happens to me is, and I'm going to touch on something you said earlier with this, is I think I always like to try and exist for some reason or not just on the edge where I always work to deadlines that are happening in a week, in like a couple of days or a week. That's where I'm my most productive because it has to get done. Like it has to get done because there is no other way. If I've got two weeks to write an article, I guarantee you I'll probably do my best work three days before because there's a deadline to hit. And that's not a positive way to be, but it's where I exist. And therefore if my period comes on that third, on that day leading up to the article because I haven't been aware or I haven't been keeping track, There is no time to then say, I now need to rest because there is no time to rest. So I don't know what your thoughts are about that or if anybody else listening can relate to that. It's a common pattern of I do my best work under pressure and like last minute. What you're doing is using fear to motivate yourself. Okay. So the problem is everything gets compressed the last two or three days of doing stuff. This is just a pattern and a shift in a belief system that you haven't got time. If you used to do things the opposite way around, which is, know what, I'm going to do this a piece at a time. I'm going to allocate some time to do it. You'll make the time for it. So this idea that we don't have time, everyone's got the same amount of time in a day. It's how we prioritize, structure and organize that time. like when you say you haven't got time, guess what? That's probably driven by the stress or the fear that you're in. So it creates the sense of urgency to do stuff and you get stuff done, but it's not sustainable long-term. And by doing the opposite of getting yourself into that rested place, you just go, okay, how can I do this? Or when can I do this? Or when can I defer this to? Or who can do this for me? Yeah, I completely agree with that. One question I wanted to ask you, Akhtar, is I've written here a question for you, which is if you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice, sort of during a time that you've ever experienced burnout or were close to burnout, what would it be? Wow, that's a great question. And you know, the first thing that came to mind was I would let other people support me. Right. And you know, look, this is This is quite deep, right? And this might sound a little woo-woo for some people, right? But one of things that we do at our retreats and the spaces that we work in, and one of the energies that I bring quite a lot of is the energy of unconditional love. It's very easy for us when we're in fight or flight or when we're in hustle and grind is to not accept support from other people. And I don't necessarily mean the practical things. Sometimes it's love. It's just, me love you, let me support you. I'm great at doing that with other people, but I've had to learn to receive that myself. And here's why this is important. when you are in a state of burnout, when you're in a state of being shot like that, or you're leading up to it, your energy is in fear. One of the antidotes for fear is love. So if you're in that space or you're seeing someone in that space, if they're open to it, there's nothing more comforting than giving them a hug or putting your hand on their shoulder or just reassuring them. Because that touch um releases oxytocin, it's the bonding hormone, it's right? When people feel that sense of love, guess what happens to their nervous system? calms down. So people are like, Axel, why are you hugging people at your retreats? I'm like, well, listen, that's just naturally me. But when someone is going through something, if they're comfortable and they're open to it with their permission, I'll put a hand on their shoulder. This is men and women, because what it does is it calms the nervous system down. So I would have allowed myself to be supported more or asked for help more. It's one of the things that we don't do because we're like, you know what, I've got this, I'm going to do it myself. If you're hyper independent and you want to be or you're brought into the hey, I'm the boss or I'm the boss, babe, boss bitch, whatever you want to call yourself. we kind of refuse or don't want to be, you know, asking for help because it's seen as a sign of weakness. Probably I saw the same thing in my younger days, but if I was to go back and give myself any advice of when I was burnt out, would be to ask for love and support, not just the practical support, but the emotional support as well. So when you have people around you that are loving, accepting and unconditionally loving, which means they're not going to judge you for what you did or why you're burnt out. They're not going to lecture you or give you a hard time or criticize you. just go, yeah, you've learned from it and they're just going to show up for you. It's massive game changer. Because a lot of times we hide, we put on masks, we don't want to be seen for our flaws or our weaknesses or insecurities. When people can see you, vulnerable and honestly for who you are, with your flaws, with your mistakes, whatever led you to burnout, and they just there for you and they support you, it is a game changer. It's very, very healing for some of the patterns that we've got or the traumas that we've got that have led to the burnout in the first place. So I would go back. I would not just ask for support because I used to be reluctant to do that. I would ask for the love that I would need. And it's great, you know, when you're in, you know, I wrote an article a little while ago that when people really thrive, it's when they're in a loving relationship, a new relationship or the vexed into toxic relationship, because what you then do is you can sit in that energy of love. So there's nothing more reassuring than just having someone to give you a hug or, know, just to see you or to hold space for you. It's deeply healing and it shifts your energy out of fear into a space of love. a flow, know, faith and trust. Beautiful. Do you know, I think that that would be one of the pieces of advice I would give myself is on this notion of asking for help. I don't think I'm very good at it. I don't think I'm very good at asking for help. I think I have the personality, which is very much around, I can do it. I can do it. I'll take on that thing. You know, and it's really funny. have a PA and the reason I got a PA is because I needed help in the business. And she always says to me, Athena, let me help you. Like, I'm like, no, no, no, I've got it. I've got it. I'll do it. She's like, but that's my job. Let me help you. And I'm like, no, it's okay. I've got it. And it's really weird. I think what it is, is this notion of letting go. I think it's about letting go. And what was really interesting was, was I can feel the universe, again, woo woo, I can feel the universe pulling me in this direction in a positive way. Cause I was at a business, business by design day, and there's a beautiful girl there called Emma Finn. Shout out to you Emma, if you're listening to this. And she put in her angel cards into the bags, the tote bags, and the angel card that I pulled randomly out of all the bags I could have pulled, there was like loads of bags, I pulled ask others for help. And that was the card that I pulled. And I showed it to Emma and Emma was like, that's the card that you needed. That's the card that you need. And so for me going forward, one of the takeaways I'm going to take from today is I'm going to ask more help from others. ah I think that's such a beautiful thing that you just said there. Absolutely, think Bella agrees as well. So, Doug agrees. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it really is, I think the thing is, you know, you can be a solopreneur. When I used to teach people, I still do to some degree about buying businesses, there comes a point where there's only so much you can do as a solopreneur or, you know, an operator. There comes a time when you have to stop being the musician and become the conductor of the orchestra. So this is where you step up into another level of leadership where you go, okay, I'm gonna let go, let go of control, let go of the reins and give this to other people so you can ascend. And it's something that I've had to do. Like right now, I wouldn't wanna do any of the day-to-day stuff. I've got a team for that because where I'm best focused is on the strategic stuff of how I can grow, how I can develop, how I can serve. So when you start this call, it's about you letting go of some of that weight. Yeah, as you let go of some of that weight, you will step up into that next level of you, next level of. you as an entrepreneur, as a leader, as a mentor, and it will be that you'll need to have people to support you to do the things that you need to do so you can expand and serve more people. So once we connect the dots with what your higher purpose is and what you want to do, you can see that these things, although they got you to here, what got you here won't get you there to that next level. And it's a constant process. I'm doing the same thing myself. Yeah, this is the thing. And what I want to be really conscious of, and I've said this to other people, is it's not like I want to shed what's happened on me in a negative way. What I am and what that person was got me to who I am today. Like, that's a really important thing to know, an important thing to say. But it's important to also recognise when it's time to let go of that chapter of who you were, to enable this new growth of a chapter to come through, which I think a lot of us could go through. Actually, I've got one more question for you um and then I want to wrap up this podcast with a really, really interesting question that I want to throw your way that got asked by me on another podcast and it completely threw me and I want to see how you deal with it. So my first question just to finish off with burnout is this. The listeners who are listening to this podcast are going to be entrepreneurs, ambitious people. people who want to get into their new business, people who are in a full-time job that want to potentially lead their full-time job and really thrive and go for it. So my question is, what does a sustainable version of ambition actually look like in a positive way? Yeah, so the first thing that comes to mind is what does the sustainable version look like? Do not identify with the hustle and grind culture, okay? That's the first thing. What do you want to identify with? I think you want to come into some sort of self-conceptual identity of being a flowing entrepreneur, however you decide to label that for you, because the thing is this, yes, there's going to be people that are trying to grow their business, come out their jobs, whatever you want to do. The thing that's important, this is where we help people to shift the most is who do you need to become? Do you wanna become a hustle and grind person? Do you wanna become the boss bad-e bitch, whatever you wanna call yourself? Do you wanna become the hustle and grind person or do you wanna become the person that builds and grows from a place of trust, flow and ease? So I would say the very first thing that I would help someone to do is to get really clear on who they need to become and how they want to operate. Okay, that's the first thing. The second thing I'd say is, you know, there's so many people that I speak to all the time. They know what they want to do. They don't know the how to. So there's a lot of courses, mentorships out there that will give you the high level overview, but you need to have a customized, what we call it UPS, a unique blueprint for success for you. That means your roadmap to take you from point A to B. So if there's someone watching this that does, you know, they want to get into property, they don't know what to do. Reach out to like, you know, reach out to Athena, go reach out to someone who's done it before that can give you the roadmap. This is going to save you from buying into that belief of go take massive action. I see people take the wrong action. You don't need to take massive action. You need to take the right action and it's going to lead you to the right directions to get things. So I think who you need to become and having a really clear customized action plan for you to get to your goals from where you're starting from. Yeah. And what you want to achieve because there isn't a one size fits all, which is why masterminds are great. They're going to give you a lot of knowledge, but you're going to need some specific knowledge about how you execute and implement that. So it works for you. And you know what I've just written down that I'm going to implement going forward today and the work that we do together I want to be a person that that comes from a place of trust flow and ease That's I'm gonna put that I'm gonna put that up on my vision board. I want to become a person of trust flow and ease That's it. Full stop. I loved it when you just said that I thought that was perfect and just want to give my own little bit of advice to anyone listening to this which is The best advice I can also give to you and something I didn't do at the beginning, but now that I do, I feel such more state of calmness is stop concentrating on what everybody else is doing, right? Stop looking at what they are doing and stop comparing yourself to them. If you focus on yourself and you go on your own journey and you try your hardest just to block them out, you will go so much quicker because, or you will go at the pace that you're meant to go at based on the circumstance that you are currently in. For example, you're going to look at somebody who's going to be in a completely different position to you. For example, a person who doesn't have children, a person who doesn't have a full-time job, a person who has the time in order to do the property deals or to do the business side of things. Whereas you're looking at them saying to them, why aren't I doing that? Why can't I have taken on my first deal yet? Because you have a full-time job and because you have two children and a family to run. That's why. So my advice to you is think about who you are and who you want to be and think about every single person taking on board this notion that Akta just said as working from a place of trust, flow and ease and stop concentrating on everybody else and concentrate on yourself would be the best advice I can give to you with this podcast as well from me. Yeah. Absolutely, I think that's a beautiful bit of advice, it really is. You know, just to add one piece to that, you know, look over your shoulder and see how far you've come. Just compare yourself to yourself, because that's the only true comparison that you can have. You know, we can't compare ourselves to other people. As Athena mentioned, there's so many different variables. Look at who you are today, look over your shoulder and see, you know, who you were last week and how you've shifted. Even if it's the thought, you know, a decision, a shift in mindset, or you've learned something new. That's your progress and all these micro shifts, all these micro wins are moving in the right direction. Just focus on your own journey and only compare yourself to who you were yesterday or last week or last year. That's the only true comparison you can have. And when people do that, they're like, actually I've come a long way. And if you can see how far you've come on a personal level, you can project forwards and go, well, look, this is what I've done in a week, two weeks, four days, whatever it's been, you know, look at how far you can go. And that's what's going to help you and give you the confidence because you're truly comparing yourself to yourself. Yeah, beautiful. Love that. And right, here's my final question to you, Akhtar. My final question is this. What's one question you wish someone would have asked you that you want to mention right now? one question that someone asked me. no, no, what's one question you wish? Like what's one question that nobody's ever asked you that you wish somebody would have asked you? That's a really good question. What's the question? I think what would have been a really good question to ask me is, other than business, what really drives me? Because people see me in business and property and it's like, actually that question would have gotten to really know who I was beyond the business stuff. Does that make sense? Like what really drives me? What really, you know, apart from business, what gets me out of bed in the And what does drive you out of curiosity apart from business? It's not the business. It's really not the business. It's funny. I think I might have mentioned this before. I um recently took on a female CEO who's got some massive plans. In fact, I think I'd like to introduce you to her at some point because she actually does a lot of health stuff that's really helpful for busy entrepreneurs. And she's got some solutions for burnout as well. But I'll introduce you separately. uh She just, you know, she just said to me, look, Actile, why are you like, why are you not going out and making loads of money and buying loads of businesses and loads of property? And I said, I've been there. It's not the destination. I'm in love with the journey. This is what I do. I love taking people on this journey because, you know, for those of who know my story, statistically, I should be dead, prisoner or drug addict with the trauma that I grew up in. So I've gone on this journey that's transformed me. We've got the blueprint. So I get to live this and I still do this work today. What's so beautiful is when I can share this stuff with other people and help them on their journey. So I'm in love with the journey of growth. I'm in love with the journey of life. I love people and I love to, you know, help others to grow. That's what really gets me out of bed in the morning because that's about me contributing and helping us to evolve as, you know, as a community, as a humanity, like it's helping people to grow and evolve and become the best versions of themselves. Not just from a business perspective, but ultimately it leads to people having more fulfillment. And that's what really gets me, you that's what means more to me than any business deal or any, when I see someone truly happy and truly fulfilled. And we have some people in our community that came to our last retreat and made massive results and shifts. And it's not the monetary stuff, it's the quality of their life that's improved. When I look at that, literally my eyes went up and my heart just swells. And I'm like so happy for those people and privileged that I was the person to help on that journey. That's what I really about. That's what I love doing. Yeah, fantastic answer. love that. And do you know, funny enough, I was talking to somebody the other day about life's purpose and we were talking about, what do you feel your purpose is? And then we had this whole conversation. I saw this meme on social media, which was around a purpose can sometimes not be about what you do, but how you help others to achieve what they need to do. And I thought that was so powerful. you're, it's like your purpose is actually in what they are doing. as opposed to what you are doing because you were the facilitator to help them get them to where they need to be and that really struck a chord with me and obviously Strix are called with you in that so I think that's beautiful and by the way you answered that so perfectly and so quickly I took about three minutes of silence to answer the question do you know what I said when somebody asked me that question? I'm curious. not gonna give the full answer. I'm gonna leave you on a cliffhanger so that you can actually go and listen to, it was a live I did with Claire Stanley, go and check out her Facebook, I answered this question. I said, um one question I wish that somebody would have asked me is, what scares me the most? That's the question that I answered, what scares me the most? And that's a proper cliffhanger, because I want to know now. I'm curious. I'm not gonna tell you. I'm not gonna tell you. I answered that question on the live with Claire Stanley, but I thought no one's ever asked me that. No one's ever asked me what scares me. So I thought that would be a really good one. So it took me three minutes to come up with it, but you know, so I enjoyed that one. But listen, Actile, I've loved this episode, as I always do with you. I think it's jam-packed, full of value. I think the listeners will really take lots away from this. And the more and more we do this, the more and more I'm interested in always thinking to myself, what's the next topic that we can do together? That's always my thought. And I don't know what your thoughts are about this, but I'm thinking we should do a topic all about perfectionism. Because I think a lot of us get stuck in perfectionism and that actually stops us sometimes from moving forward. For example, was that the perfect post? Was that the perfect deal? Did I look perfect in that speaking event? And I think it stops us in our tracks. So if you're up for it, I'd love to do a podcast episode on perfectionism. 100 % and you know what? I used to live in that mental prison of perfectionism. So I've got first-hand experience. Absolutely. Let's do it. Let's make it happen. Yeah, perfect. And obviously what's so exciting is that you are actually going to be coming and speaking for the Girls and Property community doing a live in-depth session about overwhelm, imposter syndrome, limiting beliefs, and that's going to be happening in August, isn't it? So I'm very excited about that. Yeah, the girls, the girls aren't ready for you. I'm going to be like, right, unleash yourself. But I think it's going to be really life-changing for them. So I'm very excited. Absolutely, it's going to be a game changer, it really will. looking forward to it. So in the meantime, I've got no doubt that people are want to get in touch with you and all about the subconscious work that you are doing. So what's the best place for people to contact you? Yeah, so you can go, you can find us on LinkedIn or you can go to Instagram. So if you follow us on Instagram, you can find me, The Act, The Act, can't, or you can find super conscious, super hyper conscious entrepreneur. There's a link to join our free community. So can come in there. You can speak to Kat, who's my BDM. She'll get on a call with you or just guide you if there's anything that you want to know, or you know, the team can help and support you with. So yeah, just find us on social media and we'd love to connect with you guys and guide you and help you in any way. Like I said, I'm in love with the journey. So. We can help you or your crew, on this journey. We'd love to. Yeah, that's the they're in for a treat is all I can say. Um, and then of course if you want to find me I'm Athena Dobson underscore official girls and property on Instagram come and DM me I'm I'm always in my DM. So just message me and let's have a chat Do you come and join the girls and property community? We're over a hundred active members now and it honestly just Takes my breath away every time I'm in that community just the level of the quality of conversation and the quality of girls that are in that group are absolutely incredible and then I do my best to try and make the community what I wish I had when I first started. So for example, things like getting ACTAR to come in and talking about imposter syndrome, limiting beliefs. I so wish I had had that when I first started. We also have conversations and experts such as property. We've recently had auction, for example, we've got rent to rent coming up, we've got rent as rights bill coming up, for example. There's so many different conversations and live calls that we do within that happen fortnightly within the community. And then on Saturday, the 5th of July, I'm hosting a free get together for community members, because let's face it, in person is where it's at. I love in person getting people together. So we're all going down to Bournemouth beach, which is where I am down in sunny Bournemouth. It's going to be bring a picnic, bring a dish, bring a bathing suit. We've got a beach hut as well. And we're all going to come together to build those meaningful connections, which is so important. And then the last thing to put in your diary is going to be for Friday the 12th of September. I'm going to be hosting my second Girls and Property Workshop. There's going to be 20 of us and I am going to be leading that workshop. So we recently had one last Friday that just went in June and that was all around social media algorithm with Sarah Smarr Scott, massive success. But I'm going to be leading this one all around um mindset, getting you from where you are now to where you want to be. Getting over overwhelmed goal setting and really supercharging you for the rest of the year So if you want any more information about that either DME the word workshop or if you want more information about the community DME the word community Um actor I would love to leave you with the last words for this podcast What are your parting words of wisdom you would love to leave the listeners with today? Yeah, you know what? I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is nothing more important than your state of being. We can choose to live in fight or flight, stress, overwhelm, hustle and grind. It doesn't have to be that way. We can literally live from a place of trust, flow and ease. So my invitation to everyone is choose the latter. You can do it. And it's a much more beautiful place. So just to reiterate, there's nothing more important than your state of being. I love that. And I think that is the most perfect way to set everybody up for the best week. Go and enjoy it guys. Think about where you are at in your journey at the moment. Think about how you can implement small changes today. And hopefully you've really enjoyed today's podcast. Give um Akhtar a bit of love, DM him. um And also can't wait for our next episode all around perfectionism. Akhtar, thank you for your energy. Thank you for your time once again. And I cannot wait to see you again soon. Thanks everyone for listening. Take care. Have a great week. Bye.