Body Confidence: Celebrating Our Bodies as Homes with Tamsin Broster

In this powerful episode, Athena Dobson sits down with Tamsin Broster to explore the deeply personal and universal topic of body confidence—a crucial issue that affects many women. Tamsin shares her journey, highlighting the struggles with body image that began at a young age and how they evolved over time. Through her candid reflections, she sheds light on how societal pressures often dictate the way women perceive their bodies and how those perceptions can impact both their personal and professional lives.

The conversation also dives into the profound changes brought on by motherhood and how they can reshape a woman’s relationship with her body and self-esteem. Tamsin also opens up about the emotional and physical shifts of perimenopause and how they can challenge one’s confidence, especially in a world where women are constantly encouraged to measure themselves against unrealistic media standards.

Athena and Tamsin round up the podcast by exploring the importance of authenticity, self-worth, and the need to separate our value from body size or appearance. They discuss how embracing self-acceptance is vital not only for personal growth but for professional success as well. Throughout the podcast, Tamsin emphasizes the power of community support in navigating body image challenges and reminds us that our bodies are not problems to be fixed—but homes to be celebrated. This episode is one of encouragement, recognising achievements, milestones and redefining confidence on your own terms. 

How to get involved with the Girls in Property Community 👇

👩 Join our Community

💗 Subscribe for offers & events

💃 Girls in Property Winter Party – Sat 15 Nov

GET IN TOUCH

📷 Instagram

📧 girlsinpropertypod@gmail.com

-
Don’t Miss Out! There are only 9 spaces left on the Girls in Property Accelerate Programme, which begins on Thursday 2nd October. If you’d like to find out more, just drop me a message with the word “Accelerate” and I’ll share the details with you.


Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls and Property Podcast. So if you are tuning in today, I imagine that you are wanting to really think about this notion about body confidence, because that's what we're going to be talking about today. And as I said to the guest before she came on, we've never actually spoken about body confidence on this podcast before. Yeah, I have conversations about it probably every single day, whether it be myself or it be other people come to me and say, I just feel a bit... bit flumpy today, I don't really feel like myself today, I feel like my body is changing because I'm at a certain age or I'm having children, etc. So I think that today's conversation is so important and I met this particular person at the iconic Wealth for Women event and she absolutely blew me away. She's just got the most beautiful soul, a heart of gold and I just think she would be the most perfect person with her expertise as well to really talk about body confidence and what it must feel like. So... I'm really, really excited about today's episode. I hope you are too. And without further ado, I'd love to introduce Tamsin Bruster. Hey Tamsin. you're welcome. I'm really excited about today's episode because I think that what's great about this podcast, if I say so myself, is we have loads of great content for education within the property sector. I try my best to give as much detail as I can. But also, as I've always said, it is about who we are as people. and how we can be the best people we can be to be the best business owners that we can be as well. And with that, there comes so much extra layers about what we say to ourselves, how we feel. so, you know, any of the new listeners that are listening today, welcome to the Girls and Property podcast and to show that this podcast is not just about property, it's about being more than that and who we can be and maybe taking some nuggets away to think, actually, do you know what? and I really resonated with what you both said. um This is maybe made me feel a little bit better today on my walk to school or um cleaning up a house or whatever it is they may be doing as it were. So Tamsen, let's start by, if you could please set the scene, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, how you got into being like a body confidence coach and maybe something really interesting about you that the listeners wouldn't already know. Hmm. Yeah. Well, maybe my background is the probably interesting thing. I used to work for the ministry of defense. I was a head of logistics for helicopters. Um, and I was there for 20 years. So that was my backstory is that I used to do that. used to, um, manage a lot of contracts. used to do all the logistics stuff and I managed a really, really big team just before I left. And, I hit a wall of perimenopause. just having my second and last child, my mother being terminally ill, and I hit this wall of burnout and just ended up taking a break, which ended up being a very, very long break, a permanent break, which I wasn't expecting. So yeah, how did I get into body confidence? It's interesting because I've always had a really difficult relationship with my body. Even when I was a child, I think I was about six or seven when I realized or thought to myself, I don't think I'm as thin as other people. And I think that's a problem. or I think maybe I eat more than other people and I think that's a problem. There was just messages coming when I was about that sort of age. I was very into ballet and gymnastics and all of that kind of stuff. And what's really sad about that is that it stopped me from continuing in those things because I started to get more and more self-conscious. So I hit the sort of age of like 13, 14, and I was like, I'm not doing this gymnastics stuff anymore. I just feel too big compared to everyone else, which is such a shame because I was obviously... sporty and into that kind of stuff. I had a really like, just felt, always felt like I was the biggest one in the room. I always felt like the biggest one in the friendship group. I never felt like the prettiest one because body image again, it's not just about our body size, but also about our appearance and what we think that means about us. And when I was about 17, I started driving and I wasn't walking everywhere anymore. And all of a sudden my body started to change again and I started to gain more weight. And then I started to panic and nobody could say to me, actually it might be because you're driving everywhere and maybe you just, maybe that's the only thing that's changed. And I went hell for leather into like diet culture and this dieting world. And that continued my whole entire life was about what diet I was on, how small I needed to be, what weight I didn't want to stay at, what weight I was trying to get to. And it all revolved around that everything, like absolutely everything. How, what size am I going to be on my 30th birthday? What size am I going to be on my 40th birthday? And it just went on and on and on. And when I left my job, not for that reason, but when I left my job, I think I had more head space to really think about how that was affecting me. And I had, when I left that job, I just needed to cling onto something. And I went really hard into a diet and I ended up really, really poorly. I went into A &E because I was like, I can't get these stomach cramps. And it was because I was not feeding myself. I was exercising three times a day. I was doing everything I could to avoid eating actual food. And I made myself ill and I didn't really tie the two together. Nobody ever said to me, well, what are you eating? How are you sleeping? You know, what's your lifestyle like? Because I was still, still, even despite all that in a socially not acceptable body. Like I was in a, I was still considered too big, even at my smallest. So nobody was asking me that because there's an assumption when we look at people, I know what she eats and how often she moves her body, which is just nonsense. But that's how it like nobody ever flagged it. And I ended up um studying more and more about it, help healing myself. And then thinking I've got, I've got to help other people. I've got to help other women because it's every woman, you know, who is struggling with self image, body image, body size. Am I enough and tying it to their worth? Wow, that's such a powerful story as well. I had no idea you worked in the Ministry of Defence, just taking it back to what you said originally. I'm trying to picture you in the Ministry of Defence because I don't know if this is the right thing to say or not, but you're such a warm, bubbly, wonderful person. You know, not that the Ministry of Defence aren't, but I'm just picturing it to be quite cutthroat, quite male dominated, potentially I could be completely wrong, but quite serious place to be. And I just, I don't I don't mean to be but I don't see you as a really serious person. You're you're full of life. You're full of joy. Do know what mean? Yeah, and you're right, it is. It's very male dominated space, very cutthroat, very like, you know, I have been accused of sipping my way to the top. I have been accused of just being in the right place at the right time, never off my own merit. You know, it is a very like, and especially for women, I think it's very cutthroat because the spaces in those rooms are few and far between. And if you get yourself in that door, you are seen different, you are treated differently. Um, and you have to kind of become one of the boys. I remember you used to have to really kind of study like military language, because a lot of the people that I was working with were ex-military and they did, they had this way of speaking and I, I wasn't ex-military. I'd been in the civil service my whole time, like 18, I walked in those doors. I I've never done anything else other than maybe a part-time shop job that I had when I was at college, but I had never done anything else, but I still couldn't speak the way they speak and that they, you know, have that kind of presence. And. I think back then, if you'd have seen me then, I was very different. Yes, still, you know, yes, I'm still warm and bubbly, full of life. And I love the way you just said that. Thank you. oh But I didn't dress how I dress now. I would, you know, be very conservative in how I dress, very like, you know, pencil skirts, black shoes, because I thought I had to look a certain way to be taken seriously. And part of that was my body size. I remember going back after maternity leave thinking, well, I've got to go in. And I have to make it look like I haven't had a baby. There has to be no evidence on my body that I have had a baby because I'm about to stand in the, you know, on those stages, talking to the teams about all these big changes. I'm about to be in rooms where, you know, these really high up military people are, and they're not going to take me seriously if I've got an ounce of fat on my body. That's how I, that's genuinely what I was thinking. And I used to think that was just me, but it's not just me. em Women think like that all the time. We think that that's what's gonna be the thing that leads us into opening those doors is, you know, leading in with a certain size, shape, appearance, all of those things. We have to feel like we fit in. And I really did try and make myself fit in. Gosh, that makes me really sad, Tamsin. That makes me really sad. I'm listening to you. And I think, my goodness, is that really what women go through? Honestly, you know, when you said, I have to make it look like I haven't just had a baby. Like, you should be celebrating the fact that you just had a baby. Then that you're back at work and that you're a super mum. You should be celebrating that. My goodness, I really, I think to myself, like, is it still like that today or has it changed? like how many women were there? Were there lots of women there? Not that many women there? Do you think it is still like that today? I mean, it's better than it's ever been. The opportunities are better. The support is better. I don't think the organization as a organization are typically trying to be male dominated. It just seems to be that's kind of how it is. I think that our inner chatter and our inner thoughts doesn't go away because I think there's a couple of things there. Diet culture doesn't go away. The pressure on women and how we should look doesn't go away. Whether we think we align ourselves to it or not. it doesn't go away. I think it hits a certain generation harder maybe than others, like particularly my generation of the, know, growing up with the nothing tastes as good as skinny feels and all of that pressure of what we look like. But when we think, if we think it hasn't gone away for younger generations, it absolutely has. it's even more so for our boys as well now. And I've got a seven year old who's been obsessed with having a six pack since he was six. They're talking about it in the playground. You know, my daughter is, growing up in that digital age and being exposed to, know, some actual content creators aren't actually real, they're AI and they don't always know, it's not always obvious and they're comparing themselves to these other things. So I don't think the pressures ever go away and I don't think they've ever not been there. know, our grandmothers, our great grandmothers would have had some sort of pressure on them about body size, appearance. My nan would have never opened the door without her lipstick on. That is an appearance based pressure that women carry. I think the thing that I am trying to get women to see is that it's a very, it can be a very invisible layer of pressure and mental load that we add in without realizing, because it's so normalized. It's so normalized for us to really scrutinize how we look, know, turning sideways in the mirror just to check it. We're, you know, all good to go. And like, what are we checking for before we leave the house? And, you know, the amount of people I speak to are like, I just can't find anything to wear because nothing looks right. What they're actually saying is, I can't find anything that makes me look socially acceptable and makes me look good enough. Yeah, oh my goodness. Okay, I really want to go deep with you and kind of delve into this because I think this is such an important conversation to have and a really, really important one for so many listeners listening to this as well. Before we delve into it and how we can overcome and how we can be the best people that we can be for ourselves and as business owners, as always, Tamsyn, so I know you know with this podcast, we always start with a celebration. So what is it that you are celebrating at the moment? you know what, I'm celebrating a bit of a personal goal for me. A personal one in that I have been, I wanted to start, I'm in perimenopause, I have been since I was 38. And I have been saying, I'm gonna, you know, stay consistent with strength training. I'm gonna do it regularly. And I would dip in and out, dip in and out. But it's because of the diet culture that I was always like absorbed into, I was always thinking about like, how can I like, you know, do something that's really high energy? It was always about hit and all these kind of running and stuff like that. But I um started weight training regularly with a PT. Cause I'm one of those people that's like, do you know what, if I can't do this by myself, I need someone to help me. I need someone to help me stay consistent. And we're seven months in on, my gosh, like every week, I just feel like an absolute badass woman because the lifting is just like, it is powerful. It makes me feel amazing. So I'm celebrating that really, because it's not just about that. It's taking time for myself. I've been doing a lot more of that lately. I've picked up playing the flute again, which is something I haven't played since a teenager. I'm loving it. It's really good fun just to be a beginner again. I'm enjoying just doing stuff for myself around the business stuff because sometimes it can be all consuming and you can kind of put yourself on the back burner. And I've been quite good at not doing that this year. Oh how fabulous. first of all, weightlifting is one of the best things I think you can do in terms of feeling confident, in terms of feeling powerful and toning quite frankly. Like you can, for me, I'm not a runner. I've never been a runner. I gave it a go, I'm rubbish at it. And I was like, I can't run. But what I can do is I can lift weights because I just, well for me, I'm very target driven and very target orientated, just my personality, shock. So I love being able to be like, now I can lift weight, now I can do this, now I can put more weight on and I actually had to invest myself in a PT because I just knew that if I was to do it myself I would give excuses to myself, whereas I knew if I had somebody holding me accountable ah I knew I needed to do that and for me I've done it with both men and women actually I've had male PTs and I've had female PTs but for me I've actually preferred personally having a female PT because I feel like she just understands the female body more and it's more not about trying to gain like loads of muscle and all of this but it's just trying to like look really lean for me and so I really love that but more than that it's about the way we feel like releasing endorphins we come out and we feel really great ah And really come away from the phone like if I'm weights, I can't be on my phone So it just gives me even just an hour like even just an hour light of just me time, which I love And I'll tell you what you've also just said which I I really respect as well tab as it is I sometimes ask a question now to people Because I think this shows me the most about a person when I'm having a conversation with them and my conversation is So when you're not doing business, you're not doing property and all of this like what do you do for fun? Who are you? What do you do for fun? And sometimes people say, I play the flute. I go to musical theatre and then it just starts a whole new conversation. I love walking the dog. And then we can just get off the topic of business and property and I can get to know who they are as a person. But ever so often you get a person who literally goes, God, I don't even know. They're like, all I do is work. Work is my fun. And I'm like, no, it can't be. You need to think about that. And some people even message me like a day, two days later and they go, Athena, that was a really interesting question you asked me. I've actually just taken up Spanish lessons or I've just realised I've been learning Spanish for a while, etc. So I love the fact that you've just celebrated the fact that you are getting back to you again and who you are, which I love and I'm celebrating that for you. I've been in that situation where everything was all about work. Nothing was, you know, and it wasn't actually making me any more successful or it was just burning me out. It was just, I was just so consumed by it. And actually it's given me the head spice I need and you know, it's, it's actually moved things on further, if that makes sense faster. It's, it's a, you think, if I pause, like everything will come crashing down. Actually it's opened up more. It's really interesting. Yeah, because it gives you time to reflect. Absolutely. What am I celebrating at the moment? So when this episode actually comes out, it would have been a couple of weeks ago. Well, this happened literally on Friday just gone, but this episode will come out in a couple of weeks. So we, me, I got to, I was invited to speak and to host my first ever Girls and Property panel. at the HMO Summit, which is the Houses of Multiple Occupation Summit that I did. And the person who runs it is a guy called Van who runs Coho. And about a year ago, he said to me, Athena, I'm running the HMO Summit again, and I want you to lead the panel with Girls and Property. You get to choose the topic and you get to choose the women involved in it. And this was over a year ago and I just went, yeah, sure, no problem, that's fine. Literally that year came so quickly where I went, my God, I need women in a topic. Like, what am I gonna do? But I chose the most incredible three women. They were fantastic. was Sophie Furt, Celia Seal and Kim Upsala. And it was just... brilliant and the dynamic was grey and it was so hot that day it was like 32 degrees on Friday just gone when we had all these lights on us on the stage and I saw all the girls and all you know like that meme that's going around of the wicked witch in the West like I'm melting like that that we literally melted on stage like literally But it was a fantastic conversation and got amazing feedback. ah I think they've already hinted at the fact that, you know, I'll be invited again in the future. And I just loved it. And I love the fact that I feel like consistency and slow and steady and just keep turning up is moving the cogs forward slowly but surely. And I feel like... Now it's really beginning to take wings, it's really beginning to take legs and Girls and Prophecy is really taking off and getting recognised and from that I've had a lot of invites to come on podcasts. I had like four invites after that event to go on there and so on podcasts with people and I think it's just really just getting that up and up and up now. So I'm celebrating. just being invited, girls on property, the women that were able to attend and obviously all the award winners on the night who all did an amazing job. But yeah, very proud of that one, very proud and proud that a person who leads an event trusted me with the panel and the conversation. Like that to me is a real sense of um trust. I'm trying to picture if I did that for a person, I'd have to a lot of trust in that person. So I'm gonna celebrate that. So yay to us. Yeah, definitely. And your energy when you run a panel. mean, obviously I saw you do it at the iconic wealth one. just like, again, you're right. I've run events before and you do put trust in people to, I had people running panels at my women's event last year and the year before. And you do, you have to really know that they are going to get, you know, keep the audience engaged, keep the panel discussions going. That's not easy. And you do, you definitely do. Your energy is brilliant. Oh, thank you. But I just felt such a sense of responsibility. I'm like, I can't mess this up. Like if it's mine, I'm like, okay, I'll be fine. But if it's someone else's, I'm like, I can't mess this up. This has to be perfect for them, because I have to make them proud. It's a really interesting kind of dynamic that we go through. So Tamsin, what I'd like to do with today's podcast and Delving Deep is I'd like us to also help as many people as we can, but keep some level of structure with the conversation as well. So we really get to go in deep. So the first sort of set I'd love to talk to you about is this notion of going through um perimenopause and menopause for a lot of women and then I'd like to really talk to you about what it's like to become a mum for example and what's your body change in that way because I think that those are the groups of listeners that we have the most of and some might even be both mums and going through perimenopause and going through menopause and they're like I think I'm all of those things so we've got you covered today we're gonna be talking about all of it. I'm really interested in what perimenopause actually is, Tamsin, because I feel like this word has been said a lot around me recently, and I'm kind of like, what is that? So can you help us understand it? Yeah. So menopause itself is, is actually just one day. Lots of people don't realize that, that when you go through menop, when you're in menopause, you're only, it's only really one day. It marks the calendar day that you have been 12 months without your cycle, without any cycle at all. So 12 months to the day, then everything after that is post menopause. Everything. You're not in menopause anymore. You are post menopause. And then, so the bit before that, which you're talking about, perimenopause can last years can last longer than anything else because it's that buildup. It's where your hormones start to decline, your body starts to change. Like there are so many things going on. There are hundreds of symptoms that people, you know, we all talk about the hot flashes and I know that's a topic of conversation with this weather, which I'm like feeling as well, but it's more than that. There's so much, there's cognitive changes. There's, you know, confidence changes, the hormone fluctuations, body changes. Um, health changes, there's so much that impacts us, but it can go on for like 10 years. And we often, what I see with women is they're not realizing that we're even in it. But if you are around the age of 40, you can assume that you are around perimenopause and that it is coming. And lots of people, you know, there are women that will not feel a thing, won't notice anything at all. And there are others that really, really suffer. So it's, it's the bit before your periods stop officially. What are the general symptoms if they were like, Damden, tell us, like, are we in it? Are we not in it? Like, what are the symptoms? Do you know, I think that people often think like, oh, but you know, I've still got a cycle. I've still got a regular cycle, whatever. not, not impairing menopause. Like that is the possibly what can be one of the last things that sort of changes for you. The first thing that I noticed, and when I did some, I did a menopause coaching diploma because I was trying to help my clients and myself, and it was a game changer for me. But I, what I noticed was a real, like suddenly this loss of confidence. Like I have always been a you know, reasonably confident person, I had to be inside that environment in the moj. I had to be but all of a sudden, I had very unexplained rage. I actually thought I had maybe PMDD or something like that something like, you know, significant in terms of my cycle because I was going through these periods where I would like, I would describe as pressing the self destruct button on my life. The anger was horrible. And I felt like a horrible person. I hated how I was talking to the kids when I was in that zone. And then I felt like it would just lift and I would be like picking up the pieces of my life and trying to piece it back together. But also I just doubted every word that came out of my mouth. honestly, it's so weird. Every email I was like, does that sound right? Is that word right? um Do I know what I'm talking about? Are they going to, you know, and I just, I just suddenly just lost all my confidence. And I was constantly going to my manager at the time and sort of saying, I don't know what I'm doing. She was like, Tamsin, you've been doing this for 20 years. you know what you're doing. And I don't think even she could understand why I'd gone into this sudden like spiral of lack of confidence. And it was because my hormones were really changing and I just didn't know it was coming at 38, 39. I wasn't thinking about that. just had a child. had a child. I mean, my last child at 37. I was in my head still in this like child phase. Like I could still have more children if I'd wanted to. Um, but actually there was evidence that that was not quite the case anyway, but I I just didn't have that on my radar because nobody teaches you about that. And my daughter was saying that she was taught about menopause at school. And I said, all right, what did they tell you? Talk to me about what they told you. Your period stopped. said, is that it? She said, yeah, that's all they taught her. But that's it. And that's not it at all. The symptoms that you can be going through could be things like loss of confidence. You might start getting things like, people talk about brain fog and we talk about it, but in a way that we think is just being a bit more forgetful. It's not like that. It's like your brain is like frozen. know, when your computer just goes on a blue screen, it's like that. There's nothing coming or going. It's like a stopping in time and you almost have to just sit and wait for it to like suddenly kick back in. And that can be really, really hard because you never know when that's going to happen. And I've spoken to women who said that's happened to them on stage and it's just really knocked their confidence for speaking again. There's other things like physical symptoms. Body changes is the biggest that women struggle with because it's the time of our life where our body changes and it feels out of control, but there's no reason for it. think when we go through pregnancy, can be like, I've had a child, but when you haven't and your body is expanding and your waistline just completely disappears, it can be really, really soul destroying and really knock your confidence even more. And then there's all the other things, hair loss, hair thinning. like skin that you feel like you've got it uh like itch your skin. Like I'm painting a really bad picture of this right now, but it can be like the little things like that that people don't realize are actually a sign joint pain without any actual obvious sign of injury can be a sign of perimenopause. Things like shoulder pains that just come from nowhere that you can't get rid of, hip pains you can't get rid of, can all be steering towards the fact that your hormones are changing and on their way out, they're just declining in a very fluctuating way. Which is not fun. My goodness, gosh, as women we have so much to deal with, don't we? We're trying to be badass business women, we're trying to raise a family, we're trying to keep up with the Kardashians, we're trying to literally be like this amazing woman and then our body's changing and you're absolutely right, like I speak to so many people who say to me all the time like, Athena, like literally like I'm dieting, I'm taking the best food, I'm taking supplements and yet my waistline is literally expanding, like and there's nothing that I can do about it at all and I'll say to them because you know I potentially was very naive before this conversation I say to them well why don't you try strength training? Because strength training will like tone you and they're like no no no my body's literally changing and then I say to them well just embrace it then if you can't change it embrace it basically is what I say but it must be very very difficult as a person who has let's say a very specific uh waist size their whole life like for me for example I've kind of been a similar size my whole life like I did a lot of sport when I was young, I was a dancer till I was 18, I have a very fast metabolism, like I just have a very specific body size that I've always been. And I'm trying to picture myself looking in the mirror and watching my waist expand and no longer be the size that I am. and I'm trying to think how I would feel about that. And I think that I can have as much confidence in the world, but I think I would feel, I'd feel like, I'm no longer me. I'm no longer like how I look. And I think that would have a real knock on. But the question is, here's my question, Tamsin, why? Let's actually delve into the why, right? So I've just made a point there to say, I think I'm happy to admit the fact that actually that would affect me. Why? Why should that affect you the way you look? Like, let's talk about that. Okay, yeah, I'm glad you, I'm glad we're going to dive into this. think this is the most important part because like you said, we can all go to each other and go, look, don't worry about it. You're absolutely fine. You're doing all the right things. You're healthy. The why is because we are our body and our appearance, our beauty, our age, our body size is what we are taught is our currency. That is how we kind of trade, you know, likes and, you know, respect and all of those things in our life. And if you've been a certain size, it does not matter what size that is. And I've got a whole community of women, which proves that they are all different sizes and all have some sort of body shame going on, appearance based shame, all of them. doesn't matter what size they were or are or have been. And even women who have in quotes, done it and got there and got to that thinner version of themselves on that doesn't necessarily guarantee them body confidence, because then they are stressed about holding onto it. Then they are worried about being seen more, which can feel very vulnerable, especially if you've been in a bigger body and you're kind of invisible to society. All of a sudden people are talking about your body, praising your body, commenting on your body. You know, it's a topic of discussion all the time and it's not necessarily enjoyable. So the why is because of how society is. have a very... biased society towards being thin. You mentioned the Kardashians, perfect example. I love them, by the way. I am not a Kardashian, just like a hater. not a hater. But the pressure on them to look a certain way, and that also filters down to us. We've watched it. Khloe Kardashian had a whole entire series called Revenge Body. If that doesn't tell you that it's there to dictate what people think of you, because it was all about, Jen, you know what I'm talking, do you know what I mean? Do you know what the program I'm talking about? tell me. Okay. So Chloe Kardashian had this, had this series called Revenge Body. And basically it was, it was often women who had been dumped by a boyfriend who would then change their body, get really, really slim, have this full glam makeover and then walk back into the room to that guy and just show them, well, this is what you're now missing. And it was all focused on, well, now you're missing out on me because I'm now thin. And it positioned that as the one thing. And I, was very toxic and or absolutely awful, very damaging to women. And this damaging idea that the best thing that you can be is in a thin, pretty, aesthetically pleasing body. And that's the why. That's why, because even if you look at that and go, well, that's nonsense, we're still being fed that narrative constantly. We watch women on a daily basis being pulled apart for their appearance, whether they are famous people or influencers or whatever way. Women can't win. I think is the message basically. You're either too thin, you're too big. know, we've seen lots of stars at the moment changing their body. We've got injectables that are like a whole new thing. And let's take Meghan Trainor, for example. The comments on some of her stuff, because she has openly said that she's changed her body and made it smaller, but the comments on her body preferred her before. she looks awful, looked terrible then, she looks better now. Like this whole positioning of like how we look, it's constant, it's in our sphere, should I say. And even though maybe we might not be famous, we might not be a pop star on the stage, but we're still judging ourselves internally and we are judging each other. is what happens because we're taught to do that. We're taught that being in a bigger body, losing control of that body, not being able to maintain a certain size is literally the worst thing that can happen. us. Hmm, it's such an interesting one. Like it's it's a conversation as I said that I'm so glad that we're having because you're right You're right. And it's a really important conversation as to Being needed and the psychology behind it and how we can therefore be be use this power to therefore be more confident in ourselves to be to come out and to be the best people that we can be and the best examples and business owners as it were. What about then, let's talk about, I'll come back to the perimenopause menopause stuff, but I'm just thinking about mums then. Because for mums, for example, I've got a lot of friends, I'm in that age bracket now, a lot of my friends are now having babies. And I'm having this conversation on a daily basis with them, but I have watched a lot of my performing arts friends who have always been a particular size, completely changed body shape. Their boobs for example are like 10 times bigger and I'm like well I'm jealous of that uh but their hip sizes are bigger because of course they've just had a baby and of course they're now trying to get back because they've got a bit of a stomach now etc. And they're talking to me about it and they're literally like, literally, Athena. They'll either say to me, Athena, don't do it. Don't have children. Your body's gonna change. That's what they'll say to me. Or they'll say to me, get ready, your body's gonna change. And I'm like, okay, right, right. I've got to get ready for this. I've got to get ready for this. But it's like, well, you know, talk to me about mums then who go through this for the first time and their bodies change and their emotions change and they need to produce milk and you know, all of this. Like, what do they go through? Well, I think I don't think it's dissimilar. I think it is still this comparison. We're comparing ourselves to other people. We're constantly fed this idea that we can snap back into shape and actually back to what we are never ever looking forward with our bodies. It's the one thing I always notice. We always look backwards. And I did a talk the other night in Bath, a networking event. And I was talking about a picture that I had of me when I was 18. And this, and I'm old enough for that picture to have to go to Jessup's for three days to be. printed and this pack of pictures came back. I was in Greece with my family and we celebrated my 18th birthday and there was a picture of me that came back and I shared it on social media actually because they asked me to. And I was horrified. I looked at this picture and I was like, I look awful. I look massive. My arms look huge. Just using all this kind of language about being too big. Again, it was all about that. And I cut the edges of the picture. This is my version of Photoshop. I cut the edges of the picture as like inspiration. I stuck it to the fridge where I'm never going to be that big again. which is hilarious. And that picture then when I was 25, that awful picture when I was 25, looking back at the pictures, I really want to get back there. And then when I was 30, whatever pictures I was taking at 25, I want to get back there. Always looking backwards. We're always thinking, I want to get back to that size. I want to get down to that size. I've done it before. I know I can do it again. And that's kind of what happens when we go through having babies is we think that we've still got to get back to that pre-babe. We are not the same person. Our body is not the same. Never will be. It just does change you in ways, not just physically, but emotionally in who you are and how your lifestyle. Before I had kids, I was living in America. I had a full-time job out there. I was living the life I wanted. My whole life revolves around school emails right now. It's totally different. And even though mine are a little bit older. You just, you change fundamentally as a person. The amount of time that you have in one day is just not the same as everybody else. But we still think that we need to get back to being this smaller size. But like you say, your hips change. Sometimes your rib cage changes. Like there's all sorts of, but it's the hormone changes as well. We are taught that we should never change. There's trends and things like that that go on about, you know, can you still fit into your wedding dress kind of trends. And those things are really, really toxic because why should we never ever change? Why should our bodies still be the same size as when we were 18 or 25? We're not 25 anymore. We're not 18 anymore. You know, I'm 45. My body is very different. And our body size, when we are taking care of it and when we are really feeding it, nourishing it, moving it in a way that feels good, all the things that we're doing, taking care of our mental health, taking care of for how many hours we're working. might not be the body that we think we would have in that situation. I quite often talk about this when we, if your body is, if your body size that you think is right for you is a nightmare to maintain, it might not be right for you. And that can change throughout your life. Suddenly taking care of your body and doing what, giving it what it needs might look, it might just look different on the outside than what you want it to and what society wants it to. Yeah, definitely. And actually, just want to make a point about what you just said, and this is based on my experience of what I know personally, is so when we were growing up and we were going through the performing arts world, we had to look a certain way because we had to fit into the costumes. And I remember sometimes they'd be like, no, you're too big for this part because you don't fit into the costumes. I used to be, to be fair, I kind of dabbled in this a little bit, but not to the extreme that others did. But I can tell you that you might have, I might have known that let's call them like what would be classified as the perfect body because they were really skinny and they looked like a petite eight or a petite six and they were perfect but I can tell you they were unhealthy as hell They were not healthy. They were tired. These women were tired all the time. They did not feel their body in the right way. They would literally not eat. They would fast all the time. And I can tell you because they're my friends that they were not happy at the time. And they've completely got rid of all of that now. And now they've gone on to have kids and have happy lives, et cetera. So just because you see these people who really skinny and what you think skinny is and what skinny looks like does not mean that they're actually a healthy person. And I watched that and I think that's such an important thing to say because if someone said to me, would you rather have a healthy body or would you rather have the perfect body? I'd rather be healthy. because I think to be healthy is actually quite a powerful move and whatever that therefore looks like to you because also the other thing I think it's important to say is everybody is genetically different. So some people are just genetically have different bone sizes to other people. Like we don't, we're all coming out of the womb looking exactly the same. And then I think it's important to say that as well. Like everyone is different and that's what makes us all so wonderful that we are different. That's our superpower. genetics play a massive role. And I'm so glad you mentioned that because it does. think we forget that. And I find this a lot with clients who are comparing themselves to siblings because in their brain, they're sort of saying, well, if we're related and we're siblings, have I got my sister's really super skinny and then I'm not. And it's very interesting to sort of see that dynamic because we feel that pressure. And quite often women who've grown up in that kind of environment where there's one sibling who can basically just eat whatever they want. They could just do whatever they want. They just stay the same size and they find themselves struggling with their weight. They're quite often treated very differently as well because of this bias about, you know, body size and everything else in our society. It filters into family conversations. It filters into this pressure to, well, why can't you just do what your sister does? Why can't you just be like this? And it's, you know, that dismissing of the fact that we've all got different things going on. And yeah, you're right. Feeling healthy in your body, it might not give you the smallest body. That's my reality was the healthiest version of me is not the smallest version of me. And that has been a grief process to be able to let that go and to be able to really make peace with that and be okay with that because I think we're quite often trying to prove health, prove worth. And when people judge us and people do, we'll judge people by their body size. I have friends, people will look at them and go, my gosh, they're like, they look amazing. Picture of health. They're not healthy. in the worst relationships I've ever, like you couldn't pay me to be in a relationship like that. They work ridiculous hours. They don't eat. They're not feeding themselves, not looking after themselves mentally or otherwise. And actually what you're seeing is an aesthetically pleasing body that fits into a certain size clothing. They're not happier. They're not happy with their own body size. And actually you're just comparing yourself and actually you're having that health and peace within your own body. can look very different for other people, but we're always trying to manage what other people think of us. And when you walk into a room in a bigger body, and I've experienced this myself because I'm a plus size woman, when you walk into a room, you know there will be people in that room that will assume things about me based on my body size. I've had clients who have been shocked to hear that I even work out, let alone lift weights. Why is that shocking? Because I'm bigger. If I was smaller, I'd be like, well, of course you do. you know, would be assumed, but then I've got friends who were a lot thinner who don't do any exercise, but we judge people by how they look. It's just how we're wired. And whilst it's not okay and it can be damaging. This is what I always say to my clients is come back to yourself. Like, if you know that you are doing the best for your body, then that's enough. You don't have to prove it to anyone. gave, I went through that phase of proving health when I stopped being really controlling about my body. I then still wanted to prove to my family that I hadn't like given up on myself. I haven't given up. I'm still doing this. I'm still eating. I made it such a point to like constantly talk about it and like try and let them know that I know I don't need to prove it to anyone. Like it's it only matters to me. I think that your environment that you grow up in dictates this quite a lot as well. think your immediate family dictates this quite a lot. And I think that the people that you surround yourself with both in school and out of school and the media as well, like I'll never forget. I've been quite lucky because like, you know, I'm very lucky to have my mum, for example, who just tries to feed me as much confidence as she possibly can bless her in my whole life. She's just been like, you know, you can do it, you can do it type of thing. It's like, you know, like in Matilda, she's like, you can do it brucey she's like that which is great but i'll never forget i was quite young and you know um that that shot that they did when cate middleton came out after just having a baby i can't remember if it was the first or the second i can't remember george or charlotte but she had literally just had a baby all the paparazzi were there waiting for her at the hospital she'd just given birth And the same day that she had given birth, she came out in heels, a dress, almost a flat stomach, hair perfect, makeup perfect, and she got the photos with her baby in the arms, William and her. And I remember turning to mum, and was quite young at the time, and I said to mum, mum, normal people don't look like that when they've just had a baby, do they? And mum was like, no, Athena, they don't look like that. that is not real. And she told me that's not real. That's not what people usually look like. And I remember that I was young but still thought to myself that isn't what society should be showing. But I bet Kate felt under so much pressure to come out and to show the future king and to be dressed appropriately in heels, may I add, which is ridiculous to think about, to think after she'd just given birth. And I think that... That is so wrong what they did to make other mums feel like they weren't good enough because they weren't like Kate and that they didn't look as good as Kate straight after having a baby with this flat stomach, you know, almost like it just walked out of her. Like, I just think the whole thing is ridiculous. And I remember being so young and thinking how ridiculous the whole thing was. And I think the media actually, if you look back at the media, the media has such a lot to answer for, what what everybody's going through at this moment and also young people, especially with things like Love Island, for example, which is a conversation for another day, like Love Island, you know, all of them have got, the men have all got six packs, the women are all like six to eight, they've all got flat stomachs, they all look incredible. And it's like, yeah, but that's not real. It's not real. Like put real people in that we can really feel like it would make us. Allow ourselves to be relatable, allow us to feel like we are good enough, not shamed for the way we look when we look ourselves in the mirror after watching an hour of Love Island. I think this is really important and probably, I imagine a lot of mums listening to this, maybe who have say 12, 13 year old daughters watching Love Island are going, yeah, absolutely Athena, like, I agree. So it's a tricky one and it's hopefully one we're going in the right direction for, but. a difficult conversation to have, it? It's almost like undoing society and breaking what society thought was the norm and rebuilding it again. I agree. I, things like Love Island are really perfect example because I think we can all look at that and go, well, that's just not real. Kate, we're, know, we're looking at it and go, that's not real. I remember that scene and I remember looking at her and I said to my husband, she's still bleeding profusely. can promise you that. Like there's no way, like her uterus does not know that she is, you know, future queen. they have it, her body has no idea. It's, it's privilege and it's money and it's discipline and like all the things that she's expected to look like and expected to do. And it's so hard on people's bodies and you know, especially with everything she's just been through recently, but again, love Island, you know, we can all look at it and go logically. No one looks like that. We, we logically know that that is not when you're walking around the street, that's not the kind of people you're seeing. That is a very select, like 5 % of body type that you're seeing. And this very small percentage of body type that almost none of us can achieve. We're all still kind of striving to in a way, but we still, we can look at that and go, logically, I know that's not possible, but we still can feel this pressure on ourselves to go, yeah, but we've got this, what I call like our internal like unicorn. This is the body size that I'd like to be if I could just keep it that way. We all know the size for us that we would love to be. Clients will always say it like, Oh, I'm happier at X, Y, Z size. And it's not that we're necessarily happy because when I actually get them to do into it and look back at that, they go, oh yeah, when I was that body size, I wasn't happy at all. I was in an awful relationship. wasn't feeding myself, wasn't a car for myself. That's often the body size that they're in, which they have feel most shame about is the one where they're really taking care of themselves. It's really interesting. But I think the pressure internally never goes away. that... I think we're craving it. think we're craving more representation. We're craving real bodies. We go wild when someone comes out with a real body. What's that singer's name that did that song, Messy? Lola, em I've forgotten her name. But people go wild. People go wild for that when we see what we call a real body. Somebody with actual movement and like jiggle and flesh. We just go wild for it because we're craving it. yeah, and you know what, if you actually chat to the guys, the guys love it as well. Like the guys are like, no, I'd rather have like, you know, it's great. Of course, I've been with husband 18 years and he's seen me at probably 18 different sizes and loves everyone, not a problem. But when you see online the amount of hate that these women get, we often think, that's not what men want to see because they're making their voices very heard. What I would say to that is when you see that stuff, just remember that that is a guy who's got the time to comment on a woman's body on the internet. probably not the kind of person you're trying to attract. I'm just gonna throw that out there. It's not the kind of person we're trying to attract. No, definitely not and what we'll have to do is we'll do another episode because I think what's also important to talk about is is how men are feeling at the moment with everything as well because Men are going through their own situation at the moment with needing to look a certain way again You know I know a lot of guys who are in the gym and I used to know guys for example used to work out all the time But because again of their genetics and again because of the way they were they just couldn't build body mass They couldn't it couldn't get any bigger like they were really skinny and they couldn't get bigger because their metabolism was so fast and I was like yeah but you're not that they were like eating all of this protein and I was like, yeah, but you've got to respect your body and what your body physically can do. Like, and I think men also go through a really tough time with this, but potentially, dare I say, would be shamed less than I think women. I think women have been shamed their whole life for this. And I think actually that, you know, it's a really interesting conversation almost that I'd love to get two people on the podcast to have this conversation, to have that. Tams what I'd really love to just talk to you about just before we finish the podcast is this notion of, okay, the majority of listeners who listen to this are business owners. So if we think about this from a business point of view, how do you think that people have actually been held back by their way that they feel internally about their bodies to actually go forward in their businesses? How has it impacted them? Yeah, it's impacting people massively. And a lot of the conversations I've had, I've just finished doing a two week. I won't say what I called it because I called it a bit of a swear word, but it was about becoming unapologetic and unfiltered for women. It was just a two week. I wanted to show people where it was showing up in their life, not just their personal life, but in business, in their career, whatever it might be. different groups of people joining. And it was really interesting because, and what one of the one of the women said to me was, it's how fast it goes into your brain. She didn't even notice it was happening until we started to slow down the thought process. Go, why have I just said no to that speaking gig? Why have I just, and it's because of body size. So it will stop us doing things like going internet, walking into networking and actually just showing up and being there because we are literally going through our wardrobe, going nothing fits and feeling absolutely inadequate and feeling like just not confident enough to walk through. And sometimes the women in we'll still walk through and you still go to that networking, but you're not present because it's in the back of your mind. You're thinking about your body size and how it wasn't, it's not as small as it used to be, or what are people thinking of me? Am I the biggest person in the room? There's all these inner chatter that's going on in your mind. It's holding us back. Social media is probably the biggest one because quite often, most of us, as you know, we've got to be online talking about our businesses. What do we do? Who are we? Who's the face behind the brand? women are not getting their branding pictures done. They're putting it off until they've lost weight. Their weightings, why I did a big newsletter on, I gained weight. You know, I gained weight and I booked another photo shoot because I want my body to constantly be represented at every size, every age and every stage. And it's stopping us from doing all of those things, like putting ourselves out when we pick up our phone to create a reel and we're suddenly faced with it. It's not just body size, we're suddenly faced with wrinkles. our, you know, how our voice sounds, those kinds of things. And I was networking recently and lady said that she'd done a podcast and she was so proud of this podcast. But when she watched the footage back, she was just absolutely like, my gosh. So she didn't share it. So she's not sharing her expertise. She's not sharing all of this stuff. Panel discussions, another lady was on a panel discussion. She got a photo back and she just spiraled, absolutely spiraled. Did not share that photo anywhere because it showed her in a body size that she didn't, was not happy with. Nevermind the fact she was sat there hosting a panel discussion, like, you know, it's hard work and a skill and showing her expertise, but she couldn't post it. She couldn't share it because of how her body looks. And it's leaking into our businesses. It is leaking into how much we push ourselves forward, but it's also leaking into pricing, how much we will charge for something because we're constantly filtering it through what am I worth? And if your self-worth is attached to... how you look and your body size, which for so many of us it is, it will be leaking into your business in that way. So it's about, you know, trying to sort of think, well, I'll just offer it at this because then it will be a no brainer for people. Cause we think that people need a price point for it to be a no brainer when actually they need the outcome, the transformation that we're gonna have, you know, give them. whatever it is, that's the no brainer part, not the price of it. The price is actually not part of that, but we make it part of that without realizing it. And this is what I always say to women is, I'll go through what you're doing and see where that patriarchal thinking, where that narrative is coming up and what your self-worth is attached to, to unpick it from your business. So you're not baking it in. So every time you think, right, I'm going to go one step further and I'm going to go to this, we're not baking in. this idea of our worth being attached to how we look without even knowing it, because it's very sneaky and it's very quick. That's absolutely fascinating. That's so interesting because you're right. You're totally right. And it's to do with like what we're worth. Like the amount of people that I've sometimes been around and people know this, by the way, I mean, I do this podcast, Pair Up No Makeup On, because I'm literally just like, well, this is who I am. This is me naturally. I'm personally not the person that puts a full face of makeup on. it's just not in my nature. um And I've seen people before who have put content together, fabulous content by the way, and they're like no I'm not gonna post that I don't like the way I look in it. I'm like you look fantastic what are you talking about? like no I don't like the way I look and I've been guilty of that before I've sometimes recorded something and I've gone no I'll record it again my chin looks weird in that and I've done it and I'm like why am I doing that and you know I'm really gonna take this away times and I'm gonna literally take this away and I'm gonna make myself not delete it I'm gonna make myself put it out there because nobody cares if my chin is a weird angle in a photo like nobody cares. I know I care but nobody else cares and so I think it's about just having that if one person shows up and gives that confidence to then others that they can also just show up as authentically themselves because I think that if I could give any advice to anyone listening to this I think see your rawness as your super power. and see your authenticity as your superpower because number one, it's a lot less effort and number two, there's nothing to hide then. It's like there's nothing up your sleeves. It's just you and it's raw and it's just that people then feel like they're closer to you because they're like, well, if she can do it, I can do it and people naturally get drawn in by that. So if you think to yourself, well, I can't put this reel out because I'm having a bad day and I've got spots because I'm on my period and I don't look good. and I don't have my makeup on and my hair hasn't got the perfect blow-dry that's the perfect day to actually record it because you're the only one who really cares about the way you look nobody else does they care about what it is that you're saying and that's tough to know isn't it Tamsin like it's tough it's tough to know it in your body in yourself It is tough to be able to really accept that that's the truth, but you are right. No one's really taking that much notice, but I think we really internalize this idea of wanting to be credible, wanting to be shown and being seen to be in this perfect. Instagram is full of influencer life and homes. We can get shame about our homes. We can get shame about our clothing, our hair, our body. And like I said, when we go back to the pair menopause conversation, our bodies quite often change. lots of people who saying they really struggle with hair loss and worried that that shows up on camera and really knocks their confidence. But what I want to say to women listening is we are really passionate about women earning more money and having wealth and having choices. But when we hold back, when we're deleting those reels, what we're doing is costing ourselves more time, which we just do not have. We've got a massive mental load. there's anyone out there listening to this, and you've got a child who's in primary school right now, I've had about 50 odd emails in the last couple of weeks alone from the school. It's ridiculous. And we're going through all of that. I haven't got time to be making a reel six, seven, eight, I've got no time. You can't, we're just costing ourselves money. The more stuff we're holding back or deleting or going, well, I'm not going to post that today because I'm not sure if it's perfect or I can't find a decent picture to go with it. We're just costing ourselves money. We're just leaving it on the table. We're not putting it out there. People want to work with us. Most of the time, they are going to have a connection with us at some point during our business. They are going to have to speak to us on Zoom or on a call. And if we are only putting out this perfection content, have a guess what's going to happen when they book that sales call or when they book in to talk to us about that project. We're going to really shy away from it. We're going to put it off because we've got to make ourselves look the way they think we look. or there's going to be a disconnect, you know, so show up as you show up. If you don't particularly wear makeup all the time and it's not part of your, and it's a really massive effort to put it on, then maybe go without it and just accept that that's how people, if someone's going to see you down the street, if they bump into you in Tesco's, that's how they're to see you. So it's kind of going with that, you know. Oh yeah, I look exactly the same online and offline. Everyone recognises me. like, oh, there she is. Pineapple on her hair. Just come out, just come out the gym. I'm like, yep, it's bit about me. No, I love that. And what you just said, just the last thing on that is I think that we have enough to deal with as women in our lives and enough against us as it is. Like, let's not be also an add-on to that. Let's not ourselves hold ourselves back. Let us be the one who champions. And I think that not enough women these days and maybe it's a British thing and I come back to this quite a few times about being British I think as a Brit we as women we don't Allow ourselves to champion ourselves and to say you know what I did a great job. I actually did this That's why I celebrate at the beginning of the podcast because I want to celebrate Everybody I want to celebrate and go what are you celebrating about yourself because not enough times do we actually Sit and think hold on. Why am I celebrating? So don't be the add-on to holding yourself back as times and beautifully said like be the one who pushes you forward and and gets you there because you never know what could happen. um And I think that there is only opportunity to gain and really, really important. Tams, my last question to you on this podcast, because I'd be really interested to hear your answer to this actually. I've asked it to a couple of my guests and I think you're a perfect person to ask it to as well, is what sort of one question that you've never been asked ever in life or on a podcast or anything that you wish somebody would have asked you? Oh my gosh, now that has put me on the spot. I don't know. It's one question that people never ask me. I think, do you know what? I think the one question we fail to ask each other and I think going back to what I was saying about my history and again, with like my job and everything else is people don't really ask you if you're happy. They don't really ask you how happy you are. They'll say, I messages all the time of people saying, oh my gosh, you look like you're killing it. I even when I was back in my... previous job when I got that promotion, when I got that real senior leadership, and all of a sudden I'm in rooms that I had never been in before. It was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing, you've done so well, or the other side of it of how did you get there? But no one ever said, are you happy? No one really asked if I wanted that to make me happy. It's really not something that we ever discuss. just don't, do you know what I mean? Does that make sense? I just think people don't ask that often enough. I love seeing what people's got going on in people's lives, but I think we should ask that question more often because we make assumptions on what would make people happy. Yeah. Oh, what a beautiful answer. I love that. was so deep. Yeah, I deliberately didn't give you a chance to prep for that. to mind. So I'll probably think of 10 more in a minute. No, I love that and you're absolutely right because you are right actually because when and it's interesting in what the person would answer to that because I think if a person was to be asked that question realistically, let's be honest about this, if a person was to be asked that question on the spot they would reply and go yes of course I'm happy why wouldn't I be happy? But if you just stared at them and just allowed a moment of silence right let's just say if I was to ask you that question just stared at you and didn't say another word and you noddle along and I'd be like, hmm, are you really? Then you'd begin to take the layer down and go, ooh, am I happy? Or you would then go away, make yourself a cup of tea, have a moment of your own time and then you go, hmm, am I actually happy with what I'm doing? And I think that's a really powerful question because I think whether you know it or not, you'll then become like a catalyst for that person to do something with their life. And if they're genuinely happy, then it will either, they'll think, let's do more, let's do more, I'm really happy. Or if they're not actually quite happy, they'll think, hmm. maybe I need to rethink what I'm actually doing here because I bet you get this all the time, Tamsin, like people say to me all the time, Athena, how do you do it? You're doing so much, you're flying, you're smashing it, you're this. And this is why, this is why I do at the end of every single month, my wins, my challenges, my lessons every month, because there are so many challenges that come with the wins and there are so many lessons that I learn. And it isn't always easy, it really isn't, and every single day isn't always roses and sunshine, and I talk about the fact in June, for example, like I was travelling and networking left, right and centre, and when I look back at June I think, God, you did so much. But I can tell you that there was a lot of sleepless nights. I can tell you that there was a lot of bad food choices. Sometimes I wouldn't eat. We're coming back to this notion about a healthy body. I wasn't having a healthy body. This notion of I was away from home quite a lot, so that's quite difficult on the relationship as well. And so then you see a person who is left, right, there and everywhere, but is that person necessarily happy in what they do? Now I'm happy in what I'm doing because I'm building a business and building the business makes me happy because I know what it is I'm doing. But it doesn't mean it's easy doesn't mean that it's always easy and that the choices that you've got make it easy so What a beautiful answer you just said there because I think not enough people talk about that and not enough people talk about Again, the the realness behind what it takes to really build a business. um And let's face it, like, build a business, be the best girlfriend, have the best body, eat healthy, keep up with the Kardashians, like, we've got to literally, like, do everything, be everything all at once, and it's really difficult, really difficult, and not enough people say, actually, it's really tough. Yeah, it's too much. The mental load is way too much. But the layer that we put on it of expectation of ourselves is like one of the things that we can control. Yes, the expectations of ourselves. I love that. That's a beautiful thing you just said. And I think a lot of people are going to want to get in contact with you after this podcast, Hamza. And actually, I'm going to check it out if the girls would be interested in this. And I'm sure that the answer is yes. But I think we should get this as a conversation into the Girls and Property community. Because I'm so proud to say you're actually a member of the Girls and Property community now as well, which is fabulous. And I think we should get a conversation around this because not enough people are talking about it and I think it will really benefit the women in the community as well. So first of all, what is the best way people to contact you like on socials and everything else like that? What would you say? I hang out on LinkedIn and Instagram. I can only do two social media platforms. That is pretty much it. So you can contact me on there or there's my website, which is just my name. It's just Tamsin Broster. So, that's what I'm under on everything. I don't have any sort of fancy business name. It's just my name. Makes it easier for me to remember and everyone else. I love that. love that. And as always, I am Athena Dobson, underscore official and girls in property on Instagram. You know, come and join the girls and property community, honestly, where I think we're 110 members because just gone at the HMO summit, we had a couple of signups. I think we're on 110 now, but terms and how have you actually found the community? Because what I think is important to say is actually, you know, your level of experience in property, but also actually like your what you've learned or how you found it sort of coming in. Yeah, I'm really new. What have I been in like a month now? It's amazing because I kind of joined because I've got a property that I've inherited that I just didn't know what to do with it. And I was like, I just don't know that we're doing the right thing and I need some advice. And when I went to the iconic welfare women conference, I met you there and you gave me some really good feedback and came and saw me afterwards and just sort of said, look, this is not impossible. There's no right or wrong. you this is what you should do next. But so many people after that event messaged me and said, we loved your question and we loved helping you. You should join the girls in property thing. Athena's so generous with her time. She's, it's an amazing thing. You can go in there, binge all the content, which I haven't yet done, but we, and everyone was just saying it. And I was like, okay, maybe there's some, maybe I should just go and join it. But I felt a bit of an imposter if I'm honest, cause I was like, well, I felt a bit like, well, I don't have property. I do. We've just discussed that before we came on. I do have property. I own a house and I've also got another one. Just because I'm not sure what I'm doing with it yet doesn't mean I haven't had property. So joined with a little bit like, I don't know what I'm going to find on the other side of this. Do you know what? I just love it. Like it's great, but it's also been really good for my life and my business, not just the property side of it. But I've had questions answered. I've had people on WhatsApp helping me privately based off a question that I put in there. And then when we did the accountability thing, obviously joined at a really good time because you did do. accountability which was when back in the beginning of July wasn't it just a couple of weeks it wasn't even that long ago was it when was that early July? I think it was actually in, no it was a Tuesday the 1st of July. It was Tuesday the 1st of July. Yeah. of the month and my gosh, it just, it was just so inspiring. And I loved being in that room, but I've really felt like you really knew everybody in that room. That's a lot of women to get to know and you really take the time. Like you've been so generous with your time. It's just, it's just lush. I love it. But I feel like I was thinking to myself the other day, like... Even if I got rid of this property and I never do anything with it, I think I might just stick around in the community because I just quite like it. It's just powerful women who are just getting stuff done. There is never going to be a day that I hate being in that kind of environment. So yeah, I love it. I really like it. Oh, I'm so glad you said that and that could have gone one or two ways to be honest with you could be like I hate it But you know what? It's it's that's why I love it. It's because it's got great women in there having Conversations that matter. That's what I want to say It's it's I find that this word and I'm gonna do a post about this I was thinking about this the other day actually when I was driving I find that this word community now, right? I'm actually beginning to not like it believe it or not I think there's a buzzword that's going around this aspect of community and I think that you can have a This is what I say, you can have like a platform for example that's got I don't know 500 members a thousand members But if everybody is inactive that is not a community. That's a platform, right? That's something completely different and you can have a community but you can have a community where nobody talks to each other but you could say that you've got a community or you can have what I like to think that I have which is a family and For me, it's very much a family where whether it's dysfunctional or not I don't know but like I just love it and I love every single woman that in there and I've been very fortunate so far touch wood and I think it's because of what we represent and what people know that we represent which is just goodness and we're there for everybody to just come together to really help one another and learn and like you said what I want to make really clear is it doesn't matter if you're got tons of property or no property, it's for everybody. So thank you for saying that, Tamsin, I really appreciate that. So thank you for helping me there. um But yeah, so come and join the community, just DM me the word community on Instagram on girls and property, and we can have a chat. um And then on the 12th of September, I'm also going to be doing a workshop. So this is going to be called She Means Business. So it's literally going to be all around your property business. So who are you? And let's build that. And what I really want to focus on is having this element of a business that cash flows you and then using property as a wealth generator. So we need a business kind of over here and what is the business and what's going to be your wealth generation and bring you up together. and really taking that forward. So that's gonna be in Audley Wood Manor House, which is in Basingstoke. That's gonna be from 10 till 4, and that's gonna happen on Friday 12th of September. When this episode is gonna be, was recorded, which was back in July, there was only eight spaces left, because there's a maximum of 20. So I don't know how many are left now, but at the time there was only eight, so there might only be four now, I don't know. But make sure that you get yourself all booked on, and I will see you in person on the 12th of September. Tamsen, I'd love to leave you with the last words for the listeners today. What parting words would you love to leave everybody with to get them body confident and taking their business forward? The line I always say is your body is not a problem to be fixed. It's your home. It's where you live. Beautiful. I'm gonna write that. Say that again, say that again. Your body is not a problem to be fixed, it's your home, it's where you live. It is your home. It is your home. Yeah, let's all look after our home. That's what we need to do. I need to look after my home better. I know that. I know that. And I'm gonna try and be better. Be held accountable by all the girls who keep... I get messages literally, they're like, Athena, have you eaten today? Have you drank water? They hold me accountable. They really do. we want, not celebrating like the fact that you skipped lunch and people are like, you're so disciplined. Good. So glad. Yeah. Love that. have loved today's episode. Thank you so much and hopefully we will get you back on the podcast and also get you speaking for the Girls and Props community. absolutely. But thank you once again and everybody, I hope you enjoyed today's episode and please enjoy your week wherever you're listening from. Remember to celebrate you and remember your body is your home. Have a great week, speak to you all soon. Take care, bye.