Flipping Success Part 2: How to Flip Houses the Right Way with Emma Fielding

She’s back! In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson welcomes the one and only Emma Fielding for her much-anticipated return, and if you heard her first episode, you’ll know why we’re so excited. Emma’s a powerhouse in the property world, and she’s back to share what she’s been up to over the past year.

From her latest flips to the lessons learned on the ground, Emma talks through the reality of managing a property team, dealing with renovations, and the all-important topic of capital gains tax. She also dives into the power of doing your research, the benefits of diversifying your investments, and why knowing your purpose in property can be the thing that keeps you going.

Whether you’re already in property or still in your 9–5 dreaming about your first project, this episode is full of practical insights, honest stories, and loads of tips to help you move forward with clarity and confidence.

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be taken as such. Any information used from this podcast is done so at your own risk.

Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome back to today's episode of the Girls and Property Podcast. So today I am super excited to have this guest on once again on the podcast. It's actually been quite a while since I got this particular guest on the podcast. And I think the reason for it was because when I originally took back over the podcast doing it as a soloist, I thought to myself, God, I've got to get this person straight on the podcast. She's got a wealth of knowledge, so much to give. Since then I've had lots of different guests. We've always stayed in contact. She's gone to do amazing things um But at the same time I thought right she's got to get back on here because so many girls are asking me about flips and how to flip and why to flip and the best areas to flip and So I'm assuming that if you're tuning in today That is why you have tuned in you want to hear from this amazing incredible woman You want to talk about flips you're thinking about flips you're thinking about the right area and we're going to be delving all of that into it today. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce the incredible Emma Fielding. Hey Emma! thank you, Athena. Oh, what a warm welcome. Absolutely incredible welcome. Thank you. Welcome back. know. Yeah, God, time has flown by, literally. But you know what's so lovely is I feel that so much has changed for the both of us since you came on the podcast in such a wonderful way. And I really love these episodes because I feel like I encourage everybody to go and listen to the episode that I did originally with Emma, which was Flipping Success. So go and find it. I'm sure if you just type it in with Emma, you'll be able to find it straight away. But if you listen to us back then, which was roughly about 12 months ago, and then compare it to today's podcast, We're probably different people in the most best way. Absolutely. Yes. think so much has actually changed and it's scary actually just to think in 12 months actually where you can go from to actually where I am now like that is is a lot, you know, there's a lot that has been happening and within that a lot of heavy refurbs as well and a lot of headaches and a lot of stress, but you know some really enjoyable moments as well, you know, and yeah, literally I feel like I'm just at beginning um to be quite honest. Yeah, but in a wonderful way and what I love about you, Emma, and why I wanted to get you on particularly on this to talk about flips is literally you have just come off site and said to me, feel like I've been on site like less than an hour ago. I've just sort of sorted myself out. Yeah. And that's the conversations I want to have on this podcast. People who are on site, they're doing it, they're investing in it and giving real raw advice and the reality of the good, the bad and the ugly. Because there's so much good that I want to talk about, but I also want to help people on the way. And I want to give so much value on this podcast. I really want to be like to talk about, right, those who are looking to flip, what's the advice? How should we be looking at these? Because I have so many DMs about it and my experience is not... mainly flips, it's not. And so I want to try and help get the right people on to help as much as I can. um So before we begin the episode today, can you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself? Now, people can, of course, revert back to the original one to hear kind of the full story of how you got into property. But if you give us an idea over the last 12 months of how things have changed for you, developed, maybe some diversification now within your portfolio you're looking to do, uh like where are you at at the moment? So I'm currently on flip number 15, m which was purchased about five, six weeks ago now from the local council of mine. So I think the last time we spoke, I was probably on 10 or 11, but within that I bought a street, which is pretty cool. Renovated two properties there and sold one as well. em And currently two offers are actually on the other two properties, which is amazing. So. We bought that particular project at 550k and GDV is just em over a million quid. So that's been a whole big project within itself. My first project over a million in GDV. Um, and yeah, we're obviously selling that now. Um, I think last time as well, we spoke, mentioned about a farmhouse renovation. So we've now completed the farmhouse renovation, which to be fair is my favorite renovation I've ever done. All the original features, vaulted ceilings and just, oh, so high spec and led lights everywhere. Yeah, it just looks amazing. So really happy with that renovation. Uh, and that one has been on the market as well. And then actually the more recent one, flip number 15 was one that I bought from the council. And that one has already got a couple that are already interested in buying it and we're six weeks into the renovation, which is again, pretty amazing to be quite honest. First time I've ever actually bought directly from the council. And that's again, being a whole experience because This particular property has been empty for 20 odd years. was a compulsory purchase order by the council of a estate where they have no next of king or anything. And again, the house had been left for so long causing a lot of nuisance locally. yeah. Obviously all the neighbors are so happy that we're taking on such a big project and this particular project just keeps on giving and giving. know, the land with it is huge and that's actually potential building plot, but I'm not going to build and there's a reason for that. em And just generally the size of the house is 2000 square feet. You know, it's a bungalow as well in a great area of Barnsley, obviously where I predominantly develop. Yeah, it's just a cracking project, absolutely cracking projects. And that's the one that I've been on site with this morning. And then also while all that is going on, still, we actually currently have two properties actually in Legals to be purchased. So one is a trade deal uh where I won't actually be doing any renovation work to it, literally buying it off market and then putting it back on the market, obviously at a higher price. I guess obviously that's the beauty of having contacts and, you know, buying at a good price. And then the next one as well, haven't really actually decided what the next one's going to be, if it's going to be a flip or a rental. But that one, it's been in legal 16 weeks. So it was supposed to be a quick purchase, but turns out it's not going to be a quick purchase. The property is actually on the verge of getting repossessed. So we've been battling with that, with the financial company that wants to repossess it. But obviously the vendor doesn't want to, obviously go down that route. Obviously they want just the standard sale. uh But yeah, we're, we're battling that in legals. So hopefully we'll be getting that in the next couple of weeks. yeah, now seriously looking at buying portfolios of rental stock. know, portfolios that have been in, you know, the landlord's name for the last 20 to 30 years, they're wanting to sell obviously because of the renter's rights bill. And that's, you know, gonna be a massive thing over the next five years for me really just building up my... um you know retaining property um to be quite honest i'm still working with investors raising more money than you know ever before which is fantastic and yeah just loving every minute of it to be quite honest Yeah, I love that and you can see it. You can see like when you're talking about it how much like you enjoy it and I think I think that's the yeah, but I think that's the secret to it. I think I think the reason for your success is because you really enjoy what you do and Yeah very, very lucky in that respect. Yeah, I mean, how do you manage it all? Emma, like I get that question all the time, like people like you do so much. How do you manage it all? So how do you manage yours? I think to be honest, I would say I'm very organized anyway and literally everything is in my phone all written down. I have a to-do list every day that I need to get done or a not to-do list that I don't need to do. um So I really prioritize on the things that need me there and then, or obviously, I think that's quite a skill within itself. But also as well, I've got a very good team around me of trades where I am more than comfortable of leaving them for... a couple of days a week if I need to, because I need to crack on with legals or admin or, you know, see investors or viewings or whatever it may be. So, you know, from that respect, I don't worry about the renovations or anything. The renovations are very much taken care of, even though I'm very much involved as well, solely involved in the interiors. So all the fancy bits that you see, all the finished product, that's all my work, you know, and I'm planning that the minute we we'd get a deal agreed. So way before we even got the keys. So I'm like really ahead of the renovations and things. And then obviously all the legal stuff, you you've got to be on top of it. You've got to have, yeah, yeah, I don't really put my phone down. Let's put it that way. And I think sometimes it can be too much, you know, to the point where I just need to go out and have a walk or go for a swim or gym or, you know, just to switch off, but. It can be a bit too much at times, but you've just got to think, look, like, you know, it could be a lot worse. I could be working in my corporate job, not enjoying it, but actually I'm really lucky to what I do. I'm really grateful. And yeah, I practice the gratitude very, very, uh you know, yeah, most days to be honest. Yeah. I love that. have curiosity, has anybody ever said to you things, because I certainly had this, where people are like, it's too much, you're doing too much, or they look at you on your phone constantly, and they're saying, you never put it down, like you're obsessed. Do you get that quite a lot? Yeah, I think to be honest, an ex-partner actually said to mine, you're very intense with property. I think, hmm, is that a good question or is that a bad thing or a good thing? I don't know, because I see intense being a bad thing. saying that, you know, I probably am quite intense really, because I'm very driven. I'm very tunnel-vigent. If I know what I want, I go out and get it. And I've always been like that, you know, even when I got my first property. I wanted to flip 10 houses as soon as I got to that, I pushed it up to 15 because I was buying the street and a few more and things like that. So yeah, I've always been very, very tunnel vision and driven. And I think, yeah, maybe being intense, maybe being a bit over passionate about what I do, but I absolutely love it. yeah, every day it feels like you're beating the corporate system because... could have been so easy for me to stay in my old corporate job. And I think, no, I didn't want to do that. I wanted to be self-employed and ideally in property. And obviously now I'm firmly in it and I'm not going anywhere. Yeah, good for you. love that. And you know what? I think most listeners are entrepreneurs in some sort of way and I have or wanting to be and I've got no doubt that they've probably been called intense at some point in their life. I have been called intense so many times. It's ridiculous, but it's just about finding almost your people. Like I don't see you as an intense person. I see you having fantastic energy and energy that I almost like feed off of in a way because I'm like, yes, like go do you go be fabulous. Go get the next one, you know, if you were like, I'm about to take on five more. I'd be like, yes, I'm like, amazing. And I think that those are the people you should surround yourself with people that are like minded, are driving their own future. And let's face it, as entrepreneurs, you kind of have to be a bit intense, you kind of have to be a bit obsessed. I think you've got to be, yeah, because the grand scheme of things, it is not easy. You know, it doesn't matter if you have a PA or an operations manager or a great team around you. There's always stuff that comes up every single day that you have to deal with. You know, my job really is probably chief problem solver. Do you know what I mean? In the quickest time, but also, you know, less cost as well to the business as a whole. So, you know, It is not easy. It's not for the faint hearted. to be honest, you have got to have balls of steel at times. You know, even over this last year, I've done what? Four very heavy refurbs all over a hundred K plus for every single one. When you add that up, that's a lot of cash, you know, and that's got to come from somewhere. And obviously the market hasn't been, you know, fantastically great. You know, we've had higher stamp duty rates, you know, we've had high interest rates. Finally, they're starting to come down, but in my opinion, not enough to really stimulate the market. you're thinking, okay, well, we need to start selling some houses to obviously bring the cash in to go again. So people don't really realize that when you have a renovation or when you finished a renovation, that cash isn't guaranteed in the bank to three or four or five or six or oh even 10 months later, things take time. yeah, I'm not um for... painting a fancy picture on Instagram. I will say exactly how it is. But luckily, I've got a really good team around me, really good team of investors that fully back what I do. And I'm really grateful for that, to be honest. amazing, amazing. And I can't wait to get right stuck into I've got so many questions I want to ask you literally based on what you just said. Just before I do that, you know the drill Emma by being on this podcast before we always love to celebrate on this podcast. So what would you say that you were celebrating at this moment? uh I would say probably one thing that I'm celebrating or that happened probably about two weeks ago now. So I, I very much looked up to this particular business guy, Richard Harpen, um, very local, lives what, well actually from Huddersfield. So not too far away from me. And he actually recently sold about a couple of years ago, sold his business home surf, which was emergency plumbing and call out his business. And he sold that business for 4.1 billion pound and absolutely incredible. You know, he basically started his career at Procter and Gamble. You know, I started my career in Morrisons and he then obviously left and set up, you know, home served to what it is obviously stay and grew it internationally as well, obviously in the UK. And I met him a couple of weeks ago, actually at his house in London. em And it was a workshop, you know, talking about his nine steps. to making a billion. I'm not wanting to make a billion anytime soon, but it was just so, so interesting to be around like-minded people, again, actually people in property as well, that are actually on an amazing trajectory for their future. for somebody, again, me being from Barnsley, an ex-mine in town, to look up and to actually meet somebody on that amazing level, I was absolutely amazed. So I'm still on a massive high from that. I think that was like two weeks ago, to be quite honest. And I've got his book as well and I keep reading his book. But yeah, just an amazing thing. And that's kind of outside of property, but actually I think probably where a lot of people do go wrong in property is that they don't see it as a business. They see it as property, but actually you are running a business. So you have to treat it like a business. You have to have the process, the systems, the people. in place to be able to scale that business. So yeah, that was a real eye-opening experience for me, to be honest. It sounds incredible. I love that out of curiosity how many women were in that room? em I think there was probably about four em and there was 13 of us, yeah, and I was the youngest, yeah. the youngest. amazing for women are 13 like we want more We want more women to be in that room, you know absolutely. And you all had to be at a certain point within your business as well to obviously, you know, meet him or, you know, to have these conversations and stuff. And yeah, it was just an amazing experience. And even I've connected with people after that experience that were actually there that particular day. And that's been really good as well. You know, yeah, it's been amazing. Oh, good for you. I love that. And isn't it wonderful just to take time off of site, time out of your sort of to-do lists and non-to-do lists, as you say, to just go and take time for yourself to develop you, you know, to develop you, you as a business owner and thinking what's your next steps in order to kind of think, well, actually there's more to, to just, I say just, you know what I mean when I say this like, yeah. on site. Yeah, there is. Of course. It is. but there's such a bigger picture to thinking, well, hold on, Emma Fielding, you know, you're a brand. What can you do with your brand? How can you take it to the next level? How can you get to six figures and a million if you want a billion, et cetera? So I think it's so important. And actually, I wasn't sure what I was going to celebrate today and I was just trying to think about something I'm celebrating whilst you're speaking. But then you said something and I thought, of course, that's what I'm celebrating. Which is you just said something perfect, which was not enough people think to themselves about property being a business. And I talk about this, Emma, all the time. I think the reason I talk about it is because I have a natural love more towards business than property, if I'm honest. And so for me, I'm much more about the business side of property and the business side of thinking. Yeah, yeah. love acquisitions. love small business startups. love, you know, looking at those types of information. And so I decided to run a workshop called that I titled she means business. And it was to look at people as happening on the 12th of September, who as, as business people, so your, property businesses. And I've been saying this and I'm saying, well, let's look at cashflow. Let's look at your CRMs. Let's look at what it is you're interested in doing. And and I literally just put it out there. I talked about it on the podcast, I talked about the community, said, look, 20 women were going to Basingstoke, Alleywood Manor House, we're going to sit down and do this. It's happening in September. I sold it out. I sold it out ages ago because it's so important to really think about business and like how you actually operate. And it's not a side hustle. yeah, 100%. And I think so many people for so long as you're in this journey, still treat it as a side hustle. Now I treat it as a business. I have done from very, very early on. And with that, you know, I don't really have property mentors, even though I've got a good community of property people, but I have business mentors that deal solely within the systems, the processes, the scaling. of the business, introducing me to certain people that have obviously then I've got investment from and things like that. That's working on the business, not the property because the property comes, but it's the business side you've got to work on. Yeah, absolutely. And you just made such an excellent point there where people always talk to me and ask me questions. And you can imagine, I bet you get the same Emma, which is how do you find investors? Where do investors exist? All of this. I've actually got, I don't know if you, if you know him, but he's incredible. Do you know Motul Islam? Oh, you need to get to know Motul. He's fantastic. So Motul Islam uh runs a progressive property network in Stratford. He's fabulous. And he's coming on to do a whole session for the community. think in November time. all around investors because he is an investor and he gets investor finance as it were and his main thing is around vendor finance and things and he's just fascinating and one thing I've learned actually over time especially because I'm now surrounding myself with business mentors and be going to more business networking events as opposed to property networking events which people have probably noticed the investors are at the business networking events because you're talking to the people who run businesses that don't understand what it is that you're talking about and are fascinated by what you say. So at a business networking event, no matter what level you're at, you then become the expert in the room. No matter what level you're at, you might think, oh, I've only been doing it for two months. Well, you've been doing it for two months longer than the person who runs the business. Yeah. yeah. They're then looking to invest their money and diversifying in different spaces. So think creatively and think of your wider network. Because also what you'll find as well in business events, know, traditionally is that those people are passionate about their business, but their business isn't property. So you come in like exactly what you say, the property expert or the one that's in property and people buy into that because they think it's interesting and they're thinking, well, how has she done it when we're not doing it? You know, what's the thing that is different here? And then when you say, you're working with investors that actually these people are like the person that you're talking to that are in business that are, you know, time poor, but cash rich. That's when you come in and say, well, actually, this is how we partner with individuals like yourself that actually you can still be involved in property, but on a hands off basis. And you can also get a really good return from it as well. Yeah, it's fabulous. Also, people have the most interesting businesses. I have met the most interesting people, you know, whether it's hair salons, whether it's dent, I don't even know, like there's so much that it's just so interesting. And I'm like, tell me about you. How did you get to become, you know, this amazing dentistry business? Like it's just fascinating. So yeah, I love it. And let's celebrate business today in that case. And you know, business collaborations. Right, Emma. So let's let's think about flips then and let's think about this so obviously when you last came on we we were talking about flips and what flips are now I have no doubt that the listeners know exactly what a flip is who are listening to this today so let's go straight into it then which is what should we start with Let's start at the beginning, which is when you're flipping a property and you're either based in the South or North, all over the UK, and people will say to you, you or I, they'll say, I've got X amount of cash, I'm looking to flip a property. They've never done it before, at all. They've never done any other strategy before. This is the first time they're going to do it. What are the simple key things that you would either ask them or want them to know before they even begin? looking to go and find a property to flip it. yeah, I think before you get to that point, I think you've got to ask yourself a couple of questions really. What is your goal? What do you want out of it? And how much time do you want to spend in property or on a property? uh Because, you know, people be like, well, you know, I'm really busy in my day job and not in all that jazz. You know, I've only got a couple of hours on a weekend. So actually, well, that takes you really down the main contractual route. and actually not for you to get hands on because if you're hands on, then you're spending a lot of time at the renovation. So that's how I narrow it down on that side of things. And also in terms of actually what you know about property, know, how much you know about property, because again, I get complete novices that are again, probably in business, you know, not really dabbled in property to the extent of running a property business. So I say, well, actually, how much do know? Like, you know, do you know the local ceiling prices in local area? Do you know what the three best semis are going for or the two bed terraces? Generally, what is your general advice? Because actually it might not be a case of, you know, putting in offers and viewing properties straight away. They actually need to go way back and actually do their own background research first. So, because again, you know, if I look at kind of my build up to actually getting my own property. I probably did around two years worth of groundwork in actually researching the market, researching what the local ceiling prices were, tracking properties in my local area, when they've been bought, really run down, how much they were going for after a renovation, speaking with trade. So I was doing a lot of that work. And then again, my question would be, how much time has that person got to do that work? Because that's a lot of work within itself, especially if you're starting with from a baseline of uh zero. So I think there's a couple of questions there really, one about the goals, two about your knowledge, and probably three about your network, because really property is a people business. Who do you have within your network that you can call upon if shit hits the fan, or actually what advice can you tap into, and trades and things like that. So I think it's a couple of factors really, in terms of that, but actually in terms of actually, getting started, you know, you've got to tailor it to your goals. My goal really early on was to do the 10 houses. So I knew I've just got to go, okay, I've got to get my first one. I've got to sit on that for a while. I've then got to sell it. I've then got to put the money into the second one. Then by the second or third, I might have enough to actually buy another one cash. So all this just takes time and then you start building it up and things like that. But I think the main thing that I want to get across is that, yes, you can buy a property one day, but the next day or the next week or the next month, that property price might have dropped. So you've got to buy very, very well in flipping houses. There's the old saying, you make your money when you buy, and that really comes down to your own research. And again, it doesn't matter how much research you do over an area, there's always more research you can do. build that up from day dot really. And I think, you know, just, generally on, on a property, you know, level, like how much time do you want to be involved? Like, do you want, do you want to be on site, you know, doing tip runs or do you want to be on site managing people? Because, you know, I did eight renovations, self-managing and Basically, I was doing all the tip runs. I was doing all the landscaping. I was with my stepdad, you know, doing the plumbing, you know, the lads in doing the electrics and gas, but everything else pretty much, apart from the structural stuff, I was doing, but that was like my foundation. And then now, because I've got obviously the main contractors, I don't have to do any of that stuff. But at the end of the day, it's like, well, where do you want to start off in this line? Because something comes at a cost. here if you obviously bring in major contractors early on your profit isn't going to be as high because obviously you paying the main contractors But actually if you're self managing then you're to lose time You know you so it is a balance and I think really you've got to be asking yourself those questions From the get-go really which will determine which path you actually go down Yeah, fantastic answer. love that. And one of the things I really love that you said is, which I'm finding quite a lot actually, when I think that when sometimes people also look to get started in property, they want to, in their heart, they want to move quite quickly. It's almost like they make a decision and we live in quite an instant gratification world, just naturally. That's who we are as people. Everything's quick wins. And so they want to move quickly. They're like, Athena, I've made a decision. I've got the money. want to and they think that the first step is to actually go and put offers in and do loads of you know send me your deal analyzer send me your deal analyzer I'm like no no no no that's not where you start hold your that's yeah that's not where you start where you start is doing the market research and I think what happens and this is what I've seen quite a lot of times happen is people don't enjoy the market research bit they get bored and they think oh do you know what I don't want to do this. It's not fun. It's not sexy. This is dull. So what happens is you tell them that they have to, yeah. So you tell them that you have to start with the market research bit, which is beautiful that you just said the same thing. Thank you for that. You then tell them to start there. They then get bored and you'll then either have one or two types of people. You'll either have the person who does what they're supposed to do with the market research, come back with the answers and then move forward and progress to the next level, understanding the streets, understanding the areas. Exactly. you'll get a person who goes, is boring, this is time consuming, this is annoying, this isn't actually what I want, I want to be analysing deals, putting offers in. And they actually therefore either go and make mistakes, number one, or they stop, they literally stop and they don't take it forward and they make excuses as to why they didn't do that because they're not willing to do the first bit. And I'm watching that. is your, like that's your apprenticeship, I would say in property. Then you go into self-managing and then you get, know, main contractors, all that sort. I've always seen every bit as a stepping stone. So those two years prior to why I get in the keys to my first property, that was my apprenticeship. And I was tracking every property within a mile or so to where I live. em you know, what they were selling for, what they were going for. And actually I was walking past them, just generally interested in how the renovation was going and you could see what was happening. And that, and I look back on that time and I think I probably didn't realise actually what I was doing back then for it then to pay off now. But it's really, really important to do that research, that due diligence is everything, absolutely everything. Yeah. Absolutely. then in terms of then sometimes I'll have this conversation with people where they'll say, look, I've got this pot of cash, let's call it 30 grand, 40 grand. Let's say that. Now they'll be based in the South. So they'll say, look, I can't afford the 25 % deposit for the South. I'm going to go and I'm going to flip a project in Wales. I'm going to go and flip a project in Cumbria. I'm going to go flip a project in Yorkshire. And it's the first one they ever do. And of course, they're saying to me, well, I can't do it near to me, even though that's what you're telling me to do because I can't afford it. I've got no choice but to go up, up north where they don't know the contractors, they don't know the streets, they don't know the area. It's starting from zero. So what would you say to somebody who would say that to you? I would generally say to somebody in that position where they've got a maximum of 50k for example, they should be partnering with an experienced investor in that particular area where they want to invest. Now the beauty of social media, you can connect with so many people. If you've got a person that you're following or that you found on Instagram or Facebook or wherever, that's in a particular area that's doing some good stuff with property, have a conversation with them and saying, look, I've got 50K, I'd like to get to your position in a few years, I really need some guidance or expertise, can we do some sort of earn and learn scheme or something like that or a joint venture where actually that person can then get on site? And I think, again, that's a key bit. You've got to get on site. early. You know, you've got to experience a renovation because a renovation is not for everybody. They're not glamorous places at all. You know, I go in my scrubs, my gym wear, you know, I come out filthy, dust in my hair, you know, I don't look great on site. But that, that look isn't for everybody. And actually managing trades isn't for everybody. You know, that's a whole skill within itself. So if somebody can get into being on site early, a really low risk to them, great, do it. And for me, that was actually back in 2018, my grandma passed away in South Shields and my dad inherited her house and I was living up in South Shields as well. So I actually renovated that property from start to finish. But that was like, again, my apprenticeship really, because I was risking my dad's money, but I was managing the budget. I was getting hands on, was managing trades and from that first experience I learned really early on that I loved it and I wanted to do more of it. But I think if you can get into property on a really low risk basis but actually you your experience a lot of things at the same time you're going to quickly know if it's for you or if it's not. Yeah, yeah, earn and learn is always a good one as well. Obviously, don't don't jump too quickly due to diligence on people, etc. But you need that person on the ground, don't you? You can't just you can't just be like an ostrich in the sand. You've got to get on the floor. well, know, renovations are hard. You know, I remember look at, look at back at the first few and like some of the stuff we were doing, you know, I remember my third project, I bought it 52 and a half grand cash. Obviously I was pretty, well, it wasn't all in, but I was 50 % of my money in at that particular time, you know, just renovating it, me and my stepdad and turning it from one bed to a two bed. building the internal walls. I look back and I think, God, that was amazing experience, but a big experience, a big learning curve. And I needed that at that particular point just to actually experience what it was really like. And then you build up over time, you start doing bigger stuff, then you go into extensions, then you get obviously your main contractors in like that, but you've got to take it as building blocks, every renovation, and that's what I've done. And saying that, There's no harm in doing a big renovation, but then going back to the smaller ones as well, because the smaller ones have the beauty of turning them over a lot quicker. uh But whereas me, I don't know if I'm daft or stupid going for the bigger ones and doing, you know, 100k plus refurbs constantly. But again, you know, that has its benefits as well. Yeah, definitely. And then you touched on trades. think trades is a really important one to talk about here for for flips and any renovation. So, you know, when you're starting out, you don't really have that, that black book of contacts or that experience with the trades as it were. So where where should people start when they're like, you know, I need to get a project manager, I need to get a plumber, the electrician, I need to get the whole team. Where should people start? Yeah. So actually when I started back in 2018, I literally got all my trades from CheckerTrade. I literally, I was vetting them like mad and I got three or four quarts for every job possible. But actually what I was doing in that particular time, I was actually asking, know, this sparky, for example, oh, do you know a plumber? Do you know... and plasterer. And before you know it, all the trays knew each other. And actually, then I brought that back down to Barnsley and did the same thing again. And again, I built my team from that. So I think as long as you get one or two people in, then if you start asking the questions, oh, who do you recommend for plumbing? Who do you recommend for plastering? Get them around, get that team bonded together. And also what I would say with that is actually share your vision early on. And I remember saying to the lads on you know, house one and two, I want to do 10 houses of these renovations. And they're all thinking, what, she wants to do 10, 10, like now, as in like in the next few years. And I'm going, yeah, 10, you know, so they're thinking, my God, like, you know, we're going to have all this work, you know, we're going to get paid on time, which is their main concern. They just want to get paid on a Friday for nine, nine o'clock, you know, so you need people to buy into your vision really early on, I would say. because then that's how you build the better relationships. And luckily for me now, because I've got a main contractor, my main contractor actually came from doing em an internal wall knockdown on house number two. And we always stayed in contact. And then when it got to a point where he was leaving his boss that he had worked for for about 20 odd years, he was actually doing it by himself and then bringing a few lads in himself. I was like, well, this is the perfect timing because... I want to be off the tools. is around renovation number eight. And then he basically brought in two of his lads. I then brought some of my lads in from obviously when I was self managing. Before you know it, you've got your big team and every renovation I do, I know exactly which lads are on it because they're the lads that have come with me. But I think, again, I think that one of the most important things that think people don't talk about is actually telling people what your vision or what your goal is and then the trades will buy into it. Yeah, 100%. And then another thing I just say on that is about bringing them in early. I always say that what I did was whenever I went to go view anything, I used to try my best to always take a builder with me. My builder that I was working with or, you know, if I thought the wiring was a bit dodgy, I'd take like my electrician and I go, you just do this? And majority of the time they would come with me, which is fantastic. And so we'd go looking at it together because I can look at a property, but the reality is, I don't know if there's something that we just don't know we don't know at the end of the day. They'd be able to clean it out and so they had the vision from day one and what I say to people is is if you can't take them with you make sure that when you're going around the property I always say do it in 0.5 on your phone, it slowly, not rushing, slowly so that they can see it, take photos. pictures. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. concerns and take photos of it and try and have like the three walls in the photos that they can see or the wall in the depth of property because then if you're gonna say to a sparky go, take a picture of the fuse box and go, what do you reckon about this fuse box? They can tell you what they think. They'll be like, that's gonna blow up at any minute or something which works pretty well. So I always say, try get as much evidence from the viewing as you can to bring them on the journey as well. And I think also as well, it's not just the TREs that you need to engage with, it's your surveyor. My surveyor is in his 60s on the verge of retirement, but I keep saying he can't retire because he's absolute gold for me. And having those pre-conversations with your surveyor before you even put an offer in and a really good surveyor that has been doing it a long time like mine, I think he's been doing it about 43 years, will know the property as soon as you tell him the address or heard the address. And a good surveyor like that will say, okay, well, actually there was subsidence there a few years ago. or this claim movement that calls a subsidence or somebody around the corner or I did a report on a house around the corner, all that sort of stuff. You're thinking, okay, well, what is the risk element here? Is it a good deal? Can I buy it at this particular price if this goes wrong? Have I still got profit in the deal? and things, but yeah, I think your wider team, not just your trades is really important as well. think, again, I think not a lot of people talk about that. Yeah. And this is the thing, like what, what, what you've managed to do and the reason you've done it successfully is because you picked your area and you've got your power team within that area. So you've got your surveyor that you talk to about all the properties. You've got your power team as it were. Whereas I, I know quite a few people that do quite a scatter gun approach. So I know, I know individuals who've got properties in all the different cities you can possibly imagine. And I'm like, but how'd you get your power team? Because your properties are all over the place. out, you're too diverse at that point. Yeah. and I'm just like and they're like it was a good deal that came up in Manchester and then Birmingham and then you know wherever and I'm like but but stop I'm like it's it's all over the place whereas you know can't think of anything worse. know, I like being literally around the corner or within, you know, a couple of miles of where, you know, I'm renovating here because it's easy. You know, the lads prefer it as well. But also, again, it goes back to risk. You know, if you know an area inside out, if you know you're buying at a very good price, you can't really lose, you know, unless, you know, something with the market really does happen. But even then, you should be covered. And you know, and yeah, I just think location is absolutely everything. And when you know an area so well, and for me, you know, I've done about eight or nine in a particular, quite a small postcode. So actually what happens, you then start creating your own sold comparables because you know a three bed semi that you've just sold down the road. When you're buying another three bed semi, you know, know what that should be going for because yours are just sold, you know, a month ago, for example. So that was really quite weird actually, because even when you had the mortgage value around, you knew it was gonna be okay because you sold that one. So yeah, that's really good. And I think you don't get that when you're in bigger cities or when you're going from Newcastle to Manchester to Leeds in terms of renovating. If you hammer down on an area within a few streets of each other, you're your own sole comparables, which actually makes... it easier to analyze the deals that you know you should be going for, or the ones you need to walk away from because they're at uh such a higher price. Yeah, definitely. And one of the questions that I often have with quite a few girls in the community who are looking at flips or or look at their properties is we talk a lot about capital gains tax with things. So in terms of trying to because obviously we want to try and get capital gains tax at the minimum, of course. So could you first of all, just for any listeners, explain about the aspect of what I'm referring to when we talk about capital gains tax, but also maybe some top tips and advice about people who are thinking right I want to flip this I put all this money into it I want to make sure that I profit as much as I can here but anytime I say to them yeah but have you considered the capital gains tax on that they're like no I didn't what is it that we want to say to the girls about that Yeah, well, you know, from the one thing on capital gains tax, eh you know, think it was house number three, I was trading in a limiter company. uh So that is the one way to get around. the capital gains tax is not to buy, you know, the flipping houses in your personal name, you know, in this day and age, I'm no tax advisor. But from my experience, it definitely needs to be in a limiter company. Yes, obviously you pay corporation tax 19 % or 25 % depending on the profit. But you have so many more tax benefits trading in a limited company. And actually you can still get finance within a limited company even if it's only been opened a month or a company that's been open 10 years. You can still get bridging finance, you can still get investor finance and all that jazz. You know, and even when I work with investors, you know, it is much safer for them if they're actually investing in a limited company than you in your personal name. So I think that is, is a great thing. I don't think I would advise anybody to, you know, buy property or property that they're flipping in the personal name, because, you know, when you, you look at it or the pros and cons to it, um limited company has always been better as in, you know, paying less tax. Yeah, because there's always there's always still and I know you're not a tax advisor and I'm just really curious just from from my own standpoint because obviously even though we buy we buy it in a limited company there is still capital gains tax to pay though isn't there even in a limited company? Just the corporation. it's the corporation tax. So that'll be 19 % on your profit and that's your net profit. uh Personal gains tax is only paid obviously on the uplift if you're buying property in a personal name. Yeah, yeah. i guess the only way around that is if you're going to do it in the personal name is obviously to actually live in the property itself so if it's your residential then you're not going to pay the capital gains tax which i see yeah, so basically with that, if you live in a property that is your main residence, you won't pay the capital gains tax. But if you buy an additional property, property to flip, for example, then that's when you will pay the capital gains tax. That's right, because I see quite a lot of people, I actually know quite a lot of people that actually go and they buy properties and their strategy is to go buy them, live in them whilst the renovation is happening and then basically sell it, not pay the capital gains tax because they can prove they lived in the property and then go and buy another one. have you ever lived in one of your own renovations before? so I lived in two of mine. Again, they were my, you know, sole main residents basically. I actually got tax advice as well before I actually bought my first one. uh And again, you know, I think before you even get into property, you need to get tax advice. need to get, you need to see a tax specialist that deals within property to obviously advise you on the right path. Every, um you know, person's, you know, if they're tax efficient or not, it's down to that particular person. So, you you've got to get that right advice for you. I did that. And actually, when I had that conversation with the tax advisor, he said, look, because you don't own any other property, obviously you're just starting out, it's your first home. You you can buy your first home, you can then sell it within, you know, two years, and then obviously move on that way. m So I had a game plan really going into my first two houses that actually, you I wanted to buy them relatively quite cheap, you know, I was working for Morrison's, I had my contract, so I could get my residential mortgage on them and then renovate them. You know, I had to renovate them because they were unhabitable anyway, or on the verge of unhabitable. em And then obviously I could basically move up the property ladder and I did that. And then it was like, when I got to house number two, that's when I had, you know, my equity, you know, from the 20,000 that I started with to, you know, just over a hundred grand. That's when I then pulled out and I thought, actually, this is when I'm going to start, you know, flipping houses full time. So was at that point then, and that's when I put the hundred thousand into the limter company. And I've grown that obviously since. eh So yeah, I, again, you've got to see it as a stepping stone. You know, you've got to form a game plan or what your goals are from day dot. So that's what going back to what I was saying earlier, work out actually what you want to achieve in Proposite because what you want to achieve will determine which path you go down. Yeah, exactly. Walk before you run as well. Start with the acorn, get the tree. Absolutely. I love that. And I love hearing the story of hearing you going, well, actually, I worked for Morrison's at the time. I got the residential mortgage. I lived in it. I renovated it. it's normal stuff. You know, it's the real reality of how to start as opposed to just rushing to then get your 15. I think as well, you know, again, like I get a lot of DMS and people saying, look, you know, I've got a pot of X amount, you know, I want to start, I want to be where you are. But like, again, I'm probably guilty of not really showing the full reality of property. You know, I'm what five years in six years in. And, to be honest, I could probably say now it's really starting to pay off or probably, you know, this year it'll really start to pay off. Um, but. It wasn't built in a day. It wasn't built in a month. This is years and years of graft risk as well, but also me putting my own money on the line as well. You know, for example, one of the houses that we're going to be renting out, you know, I've got 160,000 pounds of my own money in that particular house, you know, tied up into a rental. It wasn't supposed to be a rental, but it's just how it's happened with the market, et cetera. But that money, you know, was built up or all the time and I think people don't realize that I think you know they want everything now and it doesn't happen now it takes time. Yeah, and I think that people get frustrated by that. They think, oh well, you know, I'm doing it. I'm not seeing the results. I know it's, I know, and it's so, it's so hard because I remember when people used to say that to me and I used to think, oh my God, really? But it does, like the, the, the, the tunnel does, the light at the end of the tunnel does come, absolutely. will get there, you will get there. Exactly. then Emma, we spoke a little bit before you came on the podcast, you mentioned at beginning as well about this idea about diversification now. So obviously you've been doing clips for for your time in property, so five years, six years. So now, you know, you were mentioning this fact that actually might be changing strategy and buying portfolios from landlords coming out of the market, because you know, they might be a little bit older, they're a bit concerned about the renter's rights bill. But you're thinking to yourself, well, I'm going to do the opposite of that, I'm going to buy in. So what's made you kind of think to yourself, right, I've done the flipping thing I now want to retain what's yours this actually goes back to one of my original goals. And again, just going back to goals, my original goal was that, okay, I've got 20,000 pounds. That's, you know, physical cash right there. I want to grow that pot to, you know, em doing 10 flips. Then I want to do it to 15, which is obviously where I'm at now. But actually the wider goal was that I want to retain property. want to let out property. But I knew with that initial 20,000 pounds, I couldn't, you know, have a buy to let portfolio because obviously, you know, that 20,000 pounds would be soon, you know, wrapped up into, you know, one or two deals and that I would need more cash. So actually flipping was just, you know, an element to get more cash really, to be quite honest, and then put into the portfolios. And again, that was one of my, my, my bigger goals was to basically have a portfolio of um rentals. uh So now, yeah, we're looking into obviously buying portfolios, rental stock that has been rental stock for the last 20, 30 years, not renovated, all the damp and moldy properties, and just generally causing problems for landlords. And obviously with that. You know, landlords are now wanting to leave the market. We've seen the highest rate ever. Obviously with the renter's rights bill coming through and just general more red tape and legislation that is making, you know, the land, the landlord's life a lot harder. Saying that, you know, I've, I'm a firm believer where there needs to be a chunk of landlords that actually need to leave this market because they're not been looking after the tenants. They've not been looking after the properties enough. Whereas I, I'm a firm of believer of that actually we need to really renovate these properties, we need to give people the best homes possible at a really good spec. We can't just put in, you know, the most basic kitchens, the basic bathrooms. That model doesn't work anymore. It might have worked 10, 20 years ago, but it doesn't work in today's market. And also I like to look after things as well. And I like to look after tenants. So for me, Yes, we will be buying the portfolios, but actually what we're going to be creating is a really solid rental portfolio that air produces well in terms of financials, but actually the properties that are going to be looked after. And that's obviously going to be the next goal, growing and scaling that business. And that is a whole different ballgame within itself. Yes, obviously I'm dealing with landlords that are selling off. you know, dealing with tenants, management companies, and ultimately at one point in the next couple of years, you know, I'll bring in that management in-house where I have staff that manage it for me to have that full control. But again, you know, it's quite flipping. You start at the ground zero and you build it up over time. So yeah, so over the next five years, that's going to be the point where we're going to be getting to. So yeah, quite exciting. I love the goal. I love the vision. I love the clarity. And I love the fact that you're open to diversifying. You you've done your flips. I'm sure you'll continue to do your flips, I've got no doubt. But you're now also seeing a new gap in the market and you're going for it, which I think is so great. And I think that it just shows how open you are to thinking, well, hold on a minute. There are different strategies out there that you can do. ah I think for me again, you know, I'm 30 now, so I'm going to be in property for the next 20, 30 years. So this is going to be a great thing for the future. And, you know, I'm sure there'll be a point over the next few years where I think, oh, well, you know, why don't we do commercial? Why don't we do commercial to Rezzy? And I've already had opportunities like that, but I've just said no, because, you know, I want to do the rentals. I want to build up that business. And again, I think that's the beauty that I am very tunnel visioned. You know, I don't move off that path too much. uh But yeah, I think there might be some other stuff that happens in the future. Oh, very exciting. I love that. And then what I love to do in this podcast also is just to give kind of the listeners a sort of a realistic overview about things that are happening at the moment. And you'll know one of the things I love to do on this podcast is to do sort of like property mishaps, property disasters in a really lighthearted way, as it were. So have you ever had sort of like a property mishap, property disaster that you're happy to share with everyone? yes, so I would say actually um the renovation that I've just recently bought that's been empty for 20 odd years. had, well we basically realised that there was a squatter living in the actual property itself. I think we only realised probably two or three weeks actually into the renovation because the house actually got broken into. obviously the police came around etc etc. And, um, and actually the squatter left on his own accord, which was quite good, but it could have been a lot, lot worse because obviously squatters do have a lot more rights now. Well, I feel they have a lot more rights than, um, myself, you know, being the property owner. Um, but actually the council was pretty good. They obviously, you know, are aware the property has caused a lot of nuisance and things and obviously I've just recently bought it they know what I do for a living etc so they were thoughtfully backing us but yeah that could have been a lot worse than what it was but yeah I've never had a squatter living in one of the renovations but with that one I did so yeah not ideal do you think could have happened then? So just so we know, so people I'm sure listening to this would have had their own squatters or know about them. So would it have been like, what rights do they have now? he have actually have stayed at the property? Yeah, like to be honest, the property itself was unhabitable. All the wiring, all the pipes were out, you know, it was unsafe as well. Actually, there was a steel beam that was unsupported that had no pan stones and all that jazz. to be honest, I think we would have done all right actually in terms of getting him out, but it still would have been a lengthy process. And know, and remaculously he did actually go, but obviously all the evidence of him living there, sleeping bags, chairs, food, wrappers, all that jazz, know, obviously drug needles as well, we're all there. So yeah, not ideal to be quite honest, but I think you've just got to be very, very aware when you take on very derelict properties, you're going to encounter drugies, you're going to... counter squatters, homeless people, you know, and you've got to make sure your site is secure. And again, I think that is a hard part because, know, yes, you know, I live locally, so I'm always on hand. I speak to the neighbors. I've got a great relationship with them. But if you're living far away from the property, again, if you're down south and you're buying up north, you know, that is always a risk. You know, the property is unattended or something could be happening to it when you're, you know, not in the area. So again, that's probably one of the reasons as well why, you know, I live and obviously renovate in the area that I do. Yeah, absolutely. It's always about securing the property. hear that quite a lot. Quite a lot of things happen when the property actually isn't secure. And it can be quite a sad thing to come to, absolutely. Emma, what would you say, just as like your last bit on this, what would you say then, knowing what you know now with your experience and everything, what advice would you give to somebody literally who is listening to this podcast today, is just starting out in property, has made some sort of a conscious decision that flipping for moment is the angle and the way they want to go, what is the best advice you would give to them? I would say you can never do too much research to be quite honest and it really does come down to that. I feel even now I'm constantly researching or keeping my information updated in my head and things. You can never do too much. can never spend... I spend probably hours and hours on my Mac just researching, researching, researching. I think that even though you think, could be out with my friends or it could be, you know, here, there and everywhere on a weekend. But actually if you prioritize, you know, the foundation stuff now, it will pay off later on. So, you know, don't be afraid to put those hours in and the graft and the time into, you know, learning your trade, you know, and for me that is flipping houses. It doesn't matter if you're doing buy-to-lets or HMOs, learn your craft early on em and really hammer down on that information. I think that's fantastic advice. I think just to add to that, the other thing I would say is I think a lot of people sometimes feel like they're not moving forward when they're doing that. I know a lot of people who I say to them, right, this is what I advise you do. You do the market research, you look at it and they'll, they'll, they'll say to me, I don't feel like I'm moving forward. I don't feel like I'm moving as quickly as other people or where I should be. And it's like, you're so wrong in that because what you're doing is you said is you're literally giving rather than building on sand, you're building on like solid steel where you, understand the market, you get the roads and I think that too many people go the wrong way and hopefully by listening to this podcast they're going to re-evaluate and go actually I am going to move forward but I'm going to move forward in the right way so hope you've done that. I will just give some context to that actually, because for example, Saturday, I was on site all day with a mini digger, with my stepdad, with my stepbrother. We were doing all that and that was a full-on day. But actually Sunday, I was catching up on admin, but actually I was researching the market. And I was doing that from about 11 o'clock till about 10 o'clock at night. So that's just to give some context. I do not switch off. And I think when you absorb yourself so much into a strategy or a passion, like Flipping Houses is for me, that doesn't feel like work. But yet all those hours that I've spent are all stored up in my brain. So even when I'm around or thinking, right, that's a potential deal, that's a potential deal. And then thinking, okay, well, what about that research that I did on Sunday? that house is sold for a bit more now or that's gone for a bit less. What's happening with this house, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm building that picture. I'm building that bigger picture of knowledge all the time. Um, and yeah, I think those hours you put in doesn't matter if you're like at foundation level to, know, doing okay, to doing amazingly well and building your business that way. doesn't matter how many hours you spent when you're on that path, just keep putting the hours in constantly. Yeah. won't make mistakes or you'll reduce the amount of mistakes that you make. Fantastic bit of advice. love that. And actually I'm going to ask you one more question Emma. And I've only ever asked this to a few people before on this podcast. And it was a question that was asked to me on a podcast once and it absolutely stumped me. It stumped me for about three minutes because I didn't see it coming. And I don't ask this to everyone, but I ask it to the people that I really, really want to know the answer to. So my question to you is this, I've got to remember it now. My question is this, which is what's one question that you wish somebody would have asked you in life that nobody ever asked you before. That's a very good question. Very, very good. I would say deep down in hearts of hearts, what is your real passion or purpose in life? I mean, really, like what, what can you do for the rest of your life that you are happy and content with? And I know for me it's property, it's buying derelict, run down properties that nobody wants that I will take on that I've now got a reputation for. that will turn into something amazing and then give to a family or a local person to live in. That for me, that is my purpose, that is my passion. And it all comes from actually when my parents divorced and my mum, me and my mum, moved into quite a run down property and we renovated it ourselves. And I always said that I don't want anybody to live in a property where I lived in growing up because it wasn't always the nicest. So that is my purpose, that is my passion. em And the money is separate to that. Yeah, I love that. And it all comes back to the upbringing that you had and the experiences that you go through because I think for the majority of people, that is where it stems from. It really does and the experience. got to find that core purpose. What is your purpose? What is your passion? For me, it is exactly that. And I think, you know, if somebody asked me that a lot sooner, maybe, you know, when I was 10 or 13, you know, growing up, I probably wouldn't have gone to uni. I probably would have learned to trade. I probably would have got into it a lot sooner. Yes, I was quite young anyway. I was 25. But I think if I had gone into property when I was 20, where I would be now, I would have a big portfolio. I might have had a letting agency and all that sort of stuff. I would have gone hell for leather more quicker, I think. yeah, definitely. What a great answer. I love that. That's a great answer. And I think that, I think that you're so right. And there'll be, there'll be listeners on this as well that might listen to that question, the question that you've just answered. And for them, same as myself, actually, you know, property for me is not the thing that is my purpose in life. It's not the thing that drives me every day. It's yours, which is gorgeous. And I love the fact that you, you can have different perspectives. You can have different drives. Yeah, yeah, of course. you know, it's so interesting to constantly ask ourselves that question of what is it that drives us? What is it that gives us our purpose? And I think that for too long, actually, when I started my business, if I'm honest, I never asked myself that question enough. And I actually believe, because I've been able to do some work recently, which has been absolutely brilliant for me. I think I was chasing something that was almost never ending. Like there, there was, I said to myself, there was a goal, but that was a lie. There was no ending. so. I sort of went on this hamster wheel when I started my business, which was literally there was no ending to it. It was just continuous and people would say to me like Athena when is when is enough enough? it when is when are you gonna be fulfilled? And I didn't have it and I didn't and I didn't have an answer for them and I think I'm now 33 and I think what I'm now realizing is is What do I actually want out of life? Like who do I want to be and almost understanding? that it's okay if what I actually want is different to what other people want and I think that's such an important thing to say to listeners that like you don't have to want what other people have you can just have what you have but let property if property is the thing that you want it to be be the vehicle that gets you there or let your business be the vehicle that gets you there and I think that's like look within yourself and I think that's such an important thing so yeah And I think you've got to answer those or you've got to evaluate things really early on. And I think it was only when I got to probably property number three or four, then that's when I started to realize and piece my own jigsaw together. Why am I finding this so fun? Why am I being more fulfilled than ever? And it all stemmed back to that. And I thought, yeah, that's why. That's why I do it. uh Yeah, the money's good, you know, and things like that. But actually when you've done three or four, it doesn't matter what numbers are on a paycheck. That's irrelevant. That goes out the door. The passion that I have is when people walk into my properties and they go, wow, you know, and they want to buy it and they're happy there. but you know, Emma, that passion spews out of you. Like I see it. I see it in all its glory. Like you're literally just like a light. Do you know what I mean? And like, that's why you won like, yeah, but it's gorgeous. And like, that's why you won your reward. That's why, you know, you're doing it for all the young Emmas out there that, that didn't have, you know, didn't have the beautiful home when you were growing up. And you're like, nah, do you know what I want to do it for? for all the young ones out there and I think that's a beautiful thing to say. So I love it and I think that like just let that drive you honestly it's just such a wonderful thing. let's be intense together. Yeah absolutely and Emma I've got no doubt I'm sure the girls and guys who listen to this podcast are already following you of course but if they're not where is the place that they can find you? Yeah, so I all my pretty much all my renovations on Instagram, Emma property developments or LinkedIn, Emma fields in and again, Facebook the same Emma fields and so yeah, you can check it all out on that. Amazing and I am Athena Dobson underscore official on Instagram and also of course girls and property um And then if you want to check out the website, which is just being redeveloped at the moment It is girls and property dot co dot uk. Um, come and join the community everybody. We are over a hundred women now and honestly it It is just, it just, you talk about purpose. It just fills my heart every single day to see so many incredible women come and join. We have amazing conversations in the community. Emma, I've mentioned to you, I'd love for you to come in and kind of talk to the women in the masterminds that we do about the, yeah, about it because... I want to bring the right people together to say, right, let's learn, let's, learn from each other. Let's learn from each other's experiences and let's all work together to really just encourage women to be who they want to be and, you know, invest the way that they want to invest. That's what I want to do. Absolutely. I'm just so excited. A couple of really exciting projects coming up is as I mentioned Friday 12th of September, She Means Business Workshop has sold out, which is amazing. However, on Friday 21st of November, I do still have a workshop available for We've got about 18 spaces on that one left, which is all about the power of AI. So AI systems, funnels, marketing, everything. And I've got the most sensational person I can't wait to introduce you to. Carly Myers is going to be hosting that with me. I recently met her at the Property Entrepreneur Summit in Milton Keynes and she is just fire in every way. She is incredible and so wonderful to have a woman represent the industry in AI as well and technology. And she is fabulous. And then I've also going to be announcing soon the date if I haven't already for the winter uh party that I'm doing for Girls and Property. I'm not calling it a Christmas party, I'm calling it a winter party because it's probably gonna be around October time, October November and location-wise I can tell you are currently looking around Birmingham as an area for that one. So really exciting and then I'll be announcing dates shortly for the Girls and Property um annual retreat which will be next year in April so more dates on that will be coming soon. Emma, I'd love to leave you with a parting words today for the girls. So what parting words would you love to leave everybody with today? em I would just say find your purpose in property. Doesn't matter what it is, how big or small or generally what that purpose is. Find that purpose and drive it into what you want to do and keep going because there will be setbacks. There will be times and days where you think, why am I doing this? But keep going em and always have a look on the market constantly. Yeah, love that. Beautifully said. I love that. And find your purpose, guys. We've got this. Everyone's in it together. And if you need support, reach out to Emma, reach out to myself, and we'll give you another kick up the bum to say, right, off you go again. You got this. yeah, absolutely. But Emma, thank you for coming back on the podcast. I've loved it. I can't wait to get you into the community as well. And just learn so much more from you. You're an absolute inspiration. And I thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. So thank you. much, Ifeena. Thank you. And thank you to everybody that's going to be listening as well. Thanks, Nathan. in from guys. Enjoy your week. Have a great one. Let us know what you're celebrating. Let us know what you're up to and we will see you next week. Take care everyone. Bye.