The Queen of the Gavel: Auctions Made Simple with Olivia Boulting

In this episode of Girls in Property, Athena Dobson is joined by Olivia Boulting, an experienced auctioneer and better known as the Queen of the Gavel 👑, to demystify the world of property auctions.

Olivia shares her own journey into auctions, what the role of an auctioneer really involves, and why it’s important to understand the different types of auctions before jumping in.

The conversation also touches on the risks of the traditional estate agency process, practical tips for first-time auction buyers, and why legal packs should always be top of your checklist.

Olivia highlights the value of thorough preparation and encourages more women to explore auctions as a way into property investment, pointing out the exciting opportunities waiting for those ready to take the plunge.

This is a must-listen for anyone thinking about investing through auction, or curious about how auctions could open up new doors in property.

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So I am super excited for today's episode. I have been wanting to get the right person on to have this conversation for so long and you've probably seen from the title and you're probably tuning in today because you've either thinking about getting into auctions have potentially even started the process of taking on your first auction, watched your first sort of live bid as it were. or you've even actually completed on your first one and looking to take on more and more. But there is so much to learn with the options. There's so much ever changing. There's so many sort of nuances to learn. And today we're going to be talking all of that and having fun always at the same time. So I actually wasn't sure who to get on the podcast today to talk about this. However, I had an absolutely gorgeous suggestion from the amazing Annabelle Baker. And when I checked this person out, Immediately I was like, she looks amazing. She's fun. She's vibrant, but also so, so knowledgeable about everything to do with auctions as well. And I love her Instagram name as well. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce Olivia Bolting, also known as the queen of the gavel on Instagram, which I love. Hey Olivia. How are you today? Very well, thank you. Very excited to be on here. Yes, because I'm so excited because I think today's going to be all around educating, of course, and educating around auctions because so, so many people at the moment are looking to get into that. think because of the interest rates, I think because of the market at the moment being quite expensive, I think people are thinking actually auction is the right way to go. But there is so much to learn and so many kind of like hidden fees and hidden bits. And it's so important to be educated when we're doing this, which is why Today's conversation is so important, but also having fun in doing it, of course, as well, which is exciting. So Olivia, can you first start by introducing yourself, tell everybody a little bit about you, how the hell you even got into auctions at the first place. And as you've said it yourself, being like almost homes under the hammer and sort of the sort of some information about you and things that maybe people don't know about. We'll take it from there. Okay, so yeah, I'm Olivia. I started in property. So probably best, but saying I never planned to go into property. I actually studied to be a graphic designer. I was a very arty person. And then I left and just needed to get a job, walked into an estate agent. And 13 years later, I was still working in a state agency, which I love. I never had planned to go into it. And I think like most estate agents have lots of frustrations with the market and the general way that, know, conveyancing is in the UK. I had a bit of a personal life change during lockdown time and very much off the cuff just applied for a job with Auction House. Had never heard of them because they were well known down in the South West. I'm based down in Plymouth in Devon and auctions were quite a in the nicest way, it was a bit like an old boys club. That's how it's always felt to me as an estate agent. It was an old boys club of, know, very, unless you were involved in it, you didn't really know how it worked. So I always had this real intrigue to go into it. So I joined auctions about five years ago. I worked with the gentleman for about a year. He was, been in auctions for a long, time. So he taught me all the old school ways of doing everything. And then he left after a year, which left me running the South region um and grown it from there really. So I kind of went from working in my living room, just me, um and then now I've got a team of five people. We're spread across Dorset, Bristol and West, Devon and Cornwall. um And yeah, we've grown from there, which is really, really exciting. And then I trained to be the auctioneer about three, four years ago now um and absolutely love it. Like for me it's yeah, it's absolutely fantastic. So I've found my calling. I don't think I'd be doing anything else now. I think auctions is one of those things that when you start and it's very addictive. I love that. So are you basically like the judge and jury, like at the front being like, right, first going once going twice, is that what you do? The first question I get from everyone is, you talk really fast? That's the first question. If you tell anyone you're an auctioneer, I do naturally anyway, but not the same as when you watch like the cattle auctions. But yeah, I love it because obviously I meet the clients right at the start. So being able to offer the property on the day and have the excitement of building up the momentum during the auction is just, yeah, I absolutely love that. this sounds amazing. It sounds like I can imagine it being quite addictive, like that fast paced nature that, you know, looking at them, you know, I can just picture it. And do you ever feel that because of I don't I don't know the answer to this question. I'm just asking it. Like, do you think that people are ever surprised based on your age or based on like the fact you're a female, the fact you're up there doing it? Yeah, they are. Yeah. Yeah, I think there is only really a handful now of females that work as auctioneers in the UK. So you've got Sally Smith who's in our auction house network, you've got a couple of others for other firms but they are very, very few and far between. So the general sense of it is, you know, the older gentleman. So as soon as I tell anyone I'm an auctioneer, I think they are normally quite taken back. But for me, I find it weird because actually being a young I'm a very energetic person and I think women are very personable um and you can build trust with clients very well as a female as well. So I think being an auctioneer, that all makes sense to do that. So I think more women should do it really. I love it. I love it. I love and I love the fact that you actually enjoy what you do. You know, I think I think that's half of it to actually enjoy the process as well. Like we probably see like I've seen Homers on the Hammer and I see like a 70 year old man doing it who just looks so unhappy and I'm like, you've been doing it too long, haven't you? You need to step down. And you see that so much when actually like for me, that's like the best bit. So, you know, probably, you know, for people that work as estate agents, you know, you're doing the same jobs, you know, day in and day out, you're regularly selling property. I always say to agents, imagine if you build up all your stock and then you sell it all within two hours. That's exactly what we do as an auction house. So everything is about preparation before the auction. And that's key in auctions. But when it comes to auction day, you are literally selling every property that you've had over the course of two, three hours. That's a big high, you know, when you're doing it. yeah, I love it. And being able to see in real time, achieving the best prices for the clients. That's such a good feeling. Yeah. even I'm a bit like, oh, I wonder if I want to do this. It sounds great. Change my career. Be great. So Olivia, what would you say that at the moment with all this going on for you that you are celebrating at the moment? I think every day is a celebration as cheesy as that sounds but I think probably in a professional way I'm I was celebrated on Friday just gone because ever since I started in the South auctions aren't as prevalent as they are up north so I had to spend a huge amount of time educating people bringing people on board changing the mindset towards auctions which is something I really enjoy doing and obviously we're creating more of an auction market in the South which is fantastic but We built up from when I very first started, we were probably doing about seven to 10 lots in auction. I always had a personal target in my mind of I want to have a 50 lot catalog. And on Friday, we closed our September catalog and we had 53. So that's the first time we've gone over that. I think for me, was just having a little bit of a, you know, taking a step just to think about it and actually enjoy that and celebrate because that's me five years ago would have been absolutely amazing. So yeah, it's great to see that we've hit that. How great is that as well? And do you ever feel sometimes that like you set these milestones for yourself, let's say the 50 catalog, and then sometimes you're so busy, because I know I get like this, where you hit the 50 with your 53, but you do forget to celebrate because you have already moved on to the next thing before you took time. Yeah. am really bad. I'm getting better. But I do. I think like you said, when you've got goals in mind, and you're constantly striving to hit that next target, or you know, that next stepping stone to take you to the next level, you're always focused on what's around the corner, whereas actually taking the time to celebrate and reflect on how far you've come. It's a really important thing to do, but it's not always easy to do. So it's taken that time. I tell you what I do all the time. I always set targets. I always give myself, right. I want, I want five new clients. I want, I want 16 clients. I want this. And then I hit it and then I go, okay, now I need to take on another one. Now I need take on another one. Like I hit the goal, but then I don't even stop at that goal. And then go, well, I've hit that now. So I'll just go on to the next one. it's just like a checkbox when you get to that stage, isn't it? And you think, right, now I'm to 75, 100. And yeah, I think the big thing for me is like, I always say to people, probably out of five, six valuations I'll do for auction, I'll turn away two or three of them. Which for me, as an estate agent, you're always trained to just sell anything. You want to take on everything, you want to win every bit of business, whereas it's a big mindset shift when you come into auctions because actually not everything suits auction. So a lot of the time you're advising clients on what's the best method of sale for them. So we could have hit 50 lots, you know, long time ago, but it's about doing the right thing by the clients. And it keeps, you know, we've got good success rate for that reason, because obviously there's no point us telling people to put something into auction when it's not the right thing for them. So. I love that and that's so well said as well. Absolutely Let me think about this for girls on property. What am I celebrating at the moment? I'm gonna celebrate a personal thing which is uh me and my partner you might not know this Olivia but the listeners do me and my partner have been desperate to get a dog for the last god knows how many years and the reason we're desperate to get well we just we just would love to get a dog but the reason we haven't is because we know that it has to be the right time when we get the dog it has to be fair to the dog Like we both lead very, very busy lives because we're both self-employed. And yes, it means that we're both at home, but I have to go away a lot to speaking events. He's obviously got to go and like to the children's houses because he teaches music and stuff like that. And it's like, oh, when's the best time to get it? But we had this opportunity this week to doggie sit for a dog, little Molly that came and we've had her now for about three days. literally like it has. It just changes me as a person. Like it sounds ridiculous, but the listeners will laugh because they know me when they listen to this. This morning, instead of like going on my phone and like check my phone and it's Monday morning, like Monday mornings are the busiest day of the week for me by a country mile. But instead of going straight to that, which I always do, I instead went outside, let her out to like have her wee, gave her a cuddle, watered the plants, gave her her breakfast. I, Steve had to walk her because I, of course, had to do this podcast with yourself. But it was just so amazing to just think how life can change when you've just got another little being to think about. And I think it's really healthy for me to have another heartbeat in the house to just almost concentrate on, as opposed to just concentrating on myself. And I can really feel myself just relax a lot more and just, they're very good for like dopamine hits, aren't they, dogs? uh I was gonna say I well I've rescued she's um, she's in the office actually I rescued a Greek rescue about four years ago and I'm one of those where I'm similar. I have always grown up with animals I like having an animal in the house and I was living on my own and I did the thing where I just didn't tell anyone I went out one day just came back with a full-size dog. It was very much a fleeting decision and they are a huge commitment but I feel like once you have them, you do make those allowances in your life and you just work around it. Like I wouldn't, I'd be lost without her now. And Annabelle will say she comes to viewings with me. She goes out in the car, you know, she'll travel around the South with me. So she has got a good life, definitely. But you do just make your life work for them as well. So you're gonna do it. I think so. I think so. I keep getting convinced every time we take one on. I'm like, we can do this. We can do it. And Steve's like, well, you're not gonna be able to travel as much. And I'm like, we'll just take the dog. It'll be fine. Just put her in the car. It'll be fine. But yeah, I love it. And so I'm sort of celebrating slowing down, having her come to stay, which is so lovely. And just this notion of like, you know, we always talk, don't we? We always talk about what is it that what we want in life? What is it that we're doing all of this for? And like for me, it's to create calmness, to create like this life that I really want. And a dog is very much part of that. So people keep telling me you're going to have to change your lifestyle, you're going to have to change the way you are. And I'm like, yeah, but I think I'm ready for that, you know, and ready to have that little, that little dog, that little heartbeat that can change it for us as well. so we'll see. I'm still working on Steve. He's still a bit like, I'm not sure just yet. I don't think we're ready, but I'm like, we're definitely ready. Let's just do it. So we'll see, we'll see. Everyone has like been waiting for like two years for this dog. Everyone's like Athena, just do it. Get on with it. So we'll see. kind of dog, what type of breed or? Well, we would love, so we're definitely gonna rescue, so we appreciate, can't really have a big say in it. We know that, we're aware of that. But if you ask me what I'd love to have, I'd love to have a King Charles Cavalier. I really would. Just a tiny little King Charles Cavalier would be just perfect. But Molly, for example, Molly was rescued, she's a rescue from Macedonia. And she's got apparently 15 types of different breeds in her. and so you know she's gorgeous, she's a bit mongrely but she's gorgeous and I would take her in a heartbeat, I don't care what breed she is like I just care that she's such a sweet little dog and yeah just a heart of gold. Yeah, before I got Luna, I was like, I love this breed, I love this breed, they've all got these different traits. And then I just ended up going to see her and Dallish, this lady was fostering her. And I met her for about 15 minutes and I was like, no, I love her. She's just very much a mix of everything. But she just loves everyone and she's just soft natured. And I think as long as they're happy, that's the biggest thing. Yeah. I feel like we're gonna do with you. We're just gonna like rock up with this dog. Literally be like, so here we go. Now what? We're just gonna do it. So yeah, that's what we're celebrating, which is always important with girls and property. We like to celebrate, absolutely. Right, Olivia, let's get stuck into it then for auctions. Because I know that so many people are listening to this going, talk to me, help me, auctions. So. Now, the first thing I want to talk to you about just before I go through everything else is I always listen to when people speak about auctions and I always hear this notion about these two different types of ways that you can do auctions and I feel like not enough people know about this or it can get a bit confusing. So first of all, what are the two different types of auctions that you can do and why are they different and why is it important to know about them? Okay, so you've got different names as well, which makes it all the more confusing. But you basically, what you would have heard is modern method of auction, and then you've got traditional auction. So you can have online auctions, you can have live stream, you can have in-room. All of them are different platforms and then two different types. So probably the easiest thing to say is with the two different types, you've got conditional and unconditional. So no matter what names they call them, they all fall into two categories. Unconditional is what I do. So think homes under the hammer. The moment that hammer goes down, they've exchanged contracts, they pay 10 % deposit and the buyer is legally binding at that point. And then they normally complete within 28 days. So that's your traditional unconditional auctions. And then conditional auction, so modern method, which is something that's taken up quite a bit of popularity over the last few years. That's an in-between, probably I'd describe it as an in-between of an estate agent and an auction house. So where it's run exactly like an auction, and it looks like an auction because you'll have an auction date, you'll be bidding on that auction date, but when you come to win the property, you aren't exchanging, you are paying a reservation fee on top of the purchase price rather than 10 % deposit coming off. You pay reservation fee on top and then you have so long to exchange and complete. So normally it's 56 days. but the buyer's not legally binding at that point. So you get a bit more security in a conditional than you would with an estate agent as a seller because you're getting some sort of finance or yeah, some sort of money from the buyer as a commitment, but you're not as legally committed as a purchaser as you would be in an unconditional auction. So someone explained it to me, which actually I've always thought was a really good analogy. They're both auctions, but one of them, you're auctioning contracts, the other one, you're auctioning property. So if you think about in an unconditional, as soon as the hammer goes down, you are buying that property. In a conditional one, soon as the hammer goes down, you've bought that contract. And then you've got exclusive rights to then exchange and complete on that property. So two different ways of doing it, but a lot of people will go into a modern method type auction and think they're going into an unconditional auction. You can normally tell with the conditional ones, they've typically got quite high buyers fees on them. um compared to a standard auction or an unconditional auction. That's perfect. Thank you so much for that one. just a couple of questions then. with this, because I'm just thinking about this conditional one, which is obviously the contract one as it were, because I tell you what, I'm speaking to a lot of people at the moment who are going through, let's just say the standard approach with the estate agents. They get their offer accepted. Literally a week later, they're messaging me to say, Athena, we never guess what, the estate agent just came back to me and said that they've accepted a different offer from somebody else, even though they've accepted my offer. Like it is literally wild. rest out there. It just is ridiculous. The whole, even though they said, this offer is conditional to you taking it off the market, et cetera, they've come back and in the most blase way ever said, your offer has now been taken off the table, we're accepting this one. It's one of the reasons I really dislike being an estate agent. It works for both sellers and buyers do it. I've seen it so many times where you've got a seller that they've managed to buy on a property that they really, really want. Then I have a buyer that will call me and go, yeah, I've seen something else. They just literally up and go. Then you've got to break that news to the seller who's got all their hearts out on that new property that they're now going to lose. And then I've had the same where sellers have been, you know, they've decided to go and take, like you said, somebody else's offer. Buyers have paid out surveys, you know, and there's so much trust, I think, and risk in a standard estate agency process because right up until that exchange, which is typically what three, four months, you've really got to trust your seller or you've really got to trust your buyer because you're both paying out money during that process. And it's, yeah, I think it's one of the really frustrating things in our system. And I think that's one of the reasons I like auction because once that hub hammer goes down, they've exchanged contracts. So it's much, much more straightforward and it's just nicer for both buyer and seller. Well, exactly, because there's so much of this going on. So with this conditional way then, you know, as opposed to unconditional, with this contract, would be that it would be just, I'm just trying to understand this for the listeners as well. Yeah, exclusive rights. So let's say that you would then effectively be able to buy it, you'd then have, let's say an agreed amount of time, 56 days, whatever it is, but you can't be gazumped in that time. Yeah, so you're paying the reservation fee to have the exclusive rights, basically. Yeah, so it's much more attractive than buying something on the open market. I think where they're still learning on the processes side of it is that the buyer's fees can typically be quite high. So normally what a lot of the conditional auction companies will do is they will sell it to the sellers to say, look, you don't have to pay anything to sell your property. So the sellers won't pay a traditional sales fee, which they would in any other method. But what we'll do is we'll put all the fees on the buyer. which is typically either, think it's now about 4.8 % plus VAT of the purchase price. So you think, you know, whatever you're buying in that property at, that's a big fee. And so it's normally higher than what a seller would pay if they just paid, you know, much more traditional way. However, I always say to sellers, if your buyer's paying that fee, you are going to pay it no matter what. So either, you don't pay it as a sales commission, but your buyer is just going to reflect it. If they've got 15 grand worth of fees to pay, they're going to offer you 15 grand less for the property. So because it's just going to eat into their total amount. So you've always got to bear in mind. And I think this is where a lot of sellers will miss a trick is they'll go down the modern method route because they think fantastic, I'm selling my property for free, but they will end up selling for less because the buyers have got such big fees to take into account. So I think that's where people need to be careful. Yeah. such a good way to say it. And then just to double check for for the listens as well. So modern method is that, which is that linked to conditional or unconditional? That's conditional. So modern method is conditional and conditional is related to the contract. Whereas the unconditional is related to hammer goes down. You've exchanged. Yeah. how I always say it to people. Yeah, modern method, you're auctioning your contracts and all you've got homes under the hammer, which is, yeah, you're straightforward. Most people in the UK have seen that. that's your more traditional auction method. But they both, the main reason, and this is why I say to people that it's about assessing the right method of sale, the whole point of modern method was to attract the mortgage purchasers because... A lot of people can't buy with a mortgage in a traditional auction room because of how quick it goes through um and typically because of the types of properties that go through as traditional auction rooms. So where you've got modern method, they're typically meant to be properties that are too nice to go down an auction rate, but actually the seller wants the security of an auction and actually they can still get a mortgage on the property. Because I say to a lot of sellers, if you're going to go into my auction room and you can get a mortgage on it and with no issues, why would you cut out half of your audience and go down an auction route when actually now none of your mortgage buyers can buy it, which is going to limit the price that you're going to end up with. yeah, it's looking at the finance options that are available for each as well. You know, that is such a good point that you just made and actually leads beautifully into one of the questions I wanted to ask you. So thank you. So it's really interesting that you just said that because I think when people think of auction properties, they first of all categorise it just as a subheading or a main heading auction and they immediately say, oh, you've got a mortgage. can't buy an auction. It's only cash buyers and I feel like there's this myth. So if we were to debunk this myth, you're saying that actually, just to double check that this is correct what you're saying, you're saying, actually, if you're going down the conditional route and the modern uh method of auction, you can do it with a mortgage because you've got more time to go through and process it. Obviously, when you're doing an unconditional one, home's under the hammer, hammer goes down and you exchange, there's less time. So you need to be more of a purchase buyer with cash. Is that right? and because you've already exchanged on the property as well. because you've exchanged, if you then go and get a mortgage, and I never say to people you can't get a mortgage. Like in the time that I've been doing auctions, I've had three people, three women actually, that have bought from me that have bought with mortgages and they bought in an unconditional auction room. So it's not that it can't ever happen. It's just what I say to a lot of people is if that's your cash in your bank, you don't have to rely on anyone else. So you're not going to worry about anyone else dragging their feet because you're the one that's in control of everything. If you come to exchange on a property in an auction room and then you're at the hands of the underwriters and you're waiting for them to get that through, if it goes past that completion date, they're never going to get a penalty for it. It's always going to be you as the buyer that gets the penalty. So as long as people know all the associated risks that you can have, there's nothing to say you can't do it, but actually a lot of the speed with the lenders. you cannot get it through within that time scale. it's something to always be mindful of, whereas modern methods, you can still do that. However, bridging finance, auction finance is popular, it's very widely used, and you can do that in an auction room. So, you know, I work with lots of different lenders, and especially for bridging finance. And so there's nothing that stops you getting finance in an unconditional auction. Yeah. Yeah. the exits and making sure that you look at all your numbers and everything like that because I speak to lenders all the time and they're like, look, you can get in so quickly with a bridge. Like you can literally the speediest thing you've ever done. That's not the hard bit. It's the exit. Yeah, it's the exit. That's the hard bit. So just always make sure because people, think a lot of people, when I'm speaking to them and they're at the beginning of their journey, they hear this almost like buzzword, let's call it, which is bridge. Let's bridge. And I'm like snowed. I'm like slow. down everyone, slow down. Let's just actually understand that bridging is potentially quite expensive and quite this, it's great, but let's just make sure that we know how we're gonna exit, different types of exits, that type of way. So yeah, but really, really good to know that it is possible to do that. So I love that. And thank you for talking about that and touching on it. Cause it's definitely a myth that it's important to debunk as well. Absolutely. Olivia, what would you say were like your top tips for newbies then who are... Looking at properties at the moment, I feel like I'm getting this a lot. They're looking at properties, let's say in a typical em estate agent method. So they're looking at them, they're typically needing to get a mortgage, I would say. They've got sort of the 25%, but not the rest of it. And they're looking at them, they're doing their numbers or with a bridge and they're going, numbers just don't work, I have to offer way less than what the estate agent is looking for, uh or they're getting quite frankly, presumptive by these builders who have got cash and you know, the construction is all in, you know, in house. What would you say were their top tips that they're now looking to auction that they need to be aware of or looking for? Okay, so probably if you've never done auction at all before, my biggest thing, and I say this as the caveat for auction as the umbrella caveat, the onus is on the buyer to do their due diligence. So if you go to the auction room, that's your final step. Everything you should be looking at should be done before the auction. So never look at the auction as being the first step of the process. You should have checked everything before you get to that day. So my top tips typically are, one, do as much due diligence as possible. I cannot stress that enough. And downloading the legal packs. So EIG are the essential information group where they hold our legal packs. They're a bit like, I always say to people, like Rightmove for auction houses. If they've got their own search portal there, but also from the backend side of it, all auctioneers will be using it to hold their legal packs. EIG send out statistics and they sent one out last year and they said over 40 % of winning buyers didn't even download the legal pack. Which to me is just absolutely crazy because you could fall in love with a house, but if there's loads of scary things in that legal pack, that is so important to influence your decision. one, check that through with a fine tooth comb yourself as well as getting a solicitor to review it. If you check it yourself, you've got more to talk to your solicitor about. Whereas if you just pass something over and then they come back with a report and you've not even looked at it. It's much more difficult to ask questions. So I always say to everyone, check things yourself and go and view the property. A lot of the time you can view them. I think a lot of people think it's a bit of a myth with auction that you buy and blind all the time. The way that I run it for me is that we will have an hour block viewing every week until the auction date. If you, you know, we're going to be there for that four hours in total, go back every single time. You know, you don't have to just do one view. And if you're going to look at purchasing, go back each time. and watch auctions as well. know, live stream, most auctions are live stream nowadays. So you can tune in without actually having to register to bid for an auction. You can just go to the websites on the day. You can just watch as a watcher. I always think it's worthwhile doing that because if you've never been involved in an auction, there is, as everyone says, the buzz of the auction room, the momentum as things go. It's very easy to get caught up in things. So do it before you've got an emotional commitment to a property. Go and just watch it. See how you know how quickly auctioneer runs through the lots You know what kind of increments they go to and stick to your game plan That's why I say to everyone and always you know if you're doing your numbers beforehand stick to that You know if you've said right two hundreds the maximum you know gonna go to it doesn't work for me other than that and I hear it so often after an auction where people ring me and go How's he gonna make any money? You know I I've had it at this figure. He's paid this much you never know what somebody else plans to do with the property. They might have a relative that lives on the street, which I've had quite often. If they've got some sort of personal tie, they're going to pay more money for the property. So never kind of get caught up in that with other buyers. Just stick to your own game plan with it and then stick to your numbers. And if it's meant to be, I'm a firm believer, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. If it's not, that's because there's something better off around the corner in the next catalog. Oh, 100 % and you know, thank you for saying that and I love the fact you just said that. The amount of times I've experienced that for myself where something hasn't quite gone to plan on a property or something I'm doing and I've learned that actually I wasn't meant to have that because a better thing came along and I literally say this to my mentees all the time and they get gutted when they don't quite get a property and I let them stew for about a day and then I'm like, no, come on, pick yourself back up again. a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. always say to me the same thing. They're like, oh, Athena, you would never guess what? I'm like, what? This is like a week later. They're like, I found an even better one. And I'm like, yeah, of course you did, because that's the way it works. Like every single time that's the way it works. Like what's meant for you will never pass you by is what I always say. um I thought those top tips were absolutely fantastic. I loved those. One of the things that you mentioned also was just going back to this notion of the legal packs. So let's just touch on that a little bit because legal packs, think is like, you know, I feel like I've ruined family fortunes and they were like, right, give me something associated with an auction legal pack. So let's think about this. Now, legal packs are quite big documentations. They can be quite daunting to read through. If you're looking at them for the first time, you're like, well, hold on, Olivia, you're telling me to look at an illegal pack. what things should I be trying to find in the legal pack? What are typical things and pitfalls I should be looking for? I would, it's the things that aren't there. That's my tips. It's not the documents that are in there, it's the documents that aren't in there. So when you're looking, and a lot of people, so I would say, know, as an auctioneer, you want to get us listed to review every legal pack. Put myself in the buyer's shoes. I'm looking at, you know, 10 properties, I've shortlisted five of them. Do I want to pay five, 600 pounds to get each legal pack reviewed? Probably not, because you're not going to be buying five of them. So I do get it from that point of view. There's software nowadays which can really help. So Docuwise is definitely something if you're looking at regularly buying an auction, that's an AI software which has been launched quite recently, which is fantastic. So you drop the legal pack in. A lot of my very regular buyers will use this now and you drop the legal pack in and it will produce an APO document which will highlight the costs, the restrictions. Anything that's scary that you want to keep an eye out for, which will save and obviously give you that summary. So you've got things like that, which can help you. What I would say is your title documents, always look at your title documents, which is your land registry title plan. Make sure that's exactly the property that you've gone and viewed. And look at the register of title. You've got charges and things like that on there. The common auction conditions will be in every legal pack. or that the auction house will abide by. that's always good to familiarise yourself with if you're a bit nerdy like me and you like to read those things. It's got every single explanation that you could need in auction. And this is the big thing that I say to a lot of people is auction's very smoke and mirrors, but actually a lot of the information is out there and it's readily available for people to read. It's just knowing where to go and find it. So look at legal packs. you know, searches are really good that we, you know, we typically will try and include a search pack for every property as well. Um, but yeah, your title documents and then my most important, uh I, it was me personally, I would look at your title documents first and then I would go straight to the special conditions and the special conditions is a document that attaches to the contract of sale and that will dictate the length of the completion. It will dictate if there are any additional fees in that. Um, So that's the one you want to go through with fine tooth comb because standard auction is normally 28 day completion. You can get 14 days, you can get seven days. So it will always be mentioned in those special conditions. So don't always assume it's going to be 28 days because it might say it different in those specials. And actually you've then agreed to buy it you've got to get that bridging finance through in now 14 days. It's a lot, lot tighter. So. Be wary of things like that. And then also with the special conditions, and this is just one of my absolute bug bears, is a lot of clients and a lot of old school auction solicitors will include fees in wording. And that for me is the biggest bug bear. I've had it, you know, we go through every legal pack we receive for our properties because for me, my guys don't know what they're selling unless they've read the legal pack. So they need to review it. we will never have wording in there because it's done to purposely hide it from a buyer. And it means that what buyers do when they look is they go, cool, okay, there's a search cost there of 300 pounds plus that, because they'll see that in the numbers and they'll scan the document. Well, they'll miss 3 % plus, you know, VAT of the purchase price that they also need to pay. So always be mindful of that because actually things can get hidden in those special conditions. That's the one I would go through with an absolute fine-tooth comb. before you even send to us Lester. That is such good information. I didn't even think about the fact of the fees and the wording. So silly. But can you imagine like all the things you just said, which are fantastic bits of information, 40 % don't read the legal pack. It's insane. So, you know, they don't know if they're, how long they've got to exchange. They literally don't know if it's 28 days or 14 days or seven days, because they haven't read it. 40%. That is crazy. Crazy, crazy. you know, when you come to, you know, and I hate to scare monger, but I always think people need to go eyes wide open when they go into auction. And as much as it's got so many amazing pluses to it, you have to be aware of where you can get caught out as well in an auction. And I think, you know, once you go past your completion period, so say you get to the end of the 28 days, you haven't completed on the property, the seller's within their right to sell the notice to complete on you. and that's typically a 10-day notice which gives you that extra 10 days. So some buyers will say, oh great, I've all of a sudden got 38 days rather than 28. If you go past that 10 day, which it will cost you money because they'll be incurring interest during that time, so it's not free to take that notice. But if you then miss your completion date again, not only is your seller allowed to rescind the contract and keep your deposit, which can sometimes be a lot of money, if they then go on to resell that property for less money, they can then also come after you for the difference. So not only do you lose your deposit, but actually if they end up selling for less, you could be liable for that difference as well. you've got to, before you actually enter into any contracts auction, make sure you, know, dot your I's, you cross your T's. And I say to everyone, if you do not feel comfortable before bidding and you haven't got every bit of information that's going to make you feel confident, don't bid. You know, best thing to do is just don't bid on the property, go and bid on something else instead. So. advice, really really good advice. One of the questions that I sometimes get asked is with this notion of, you made a great point earlier Olivia, you said, you sometimes you're not just looking at one property at auction, you're looking at five. So with that, of course, you don't want to have to pay the five sets of the legal fees for the solicitors to look at, of course, but at the same time, you want to have almost that sounding board in a solicitor to tell you, no, do you know what, everything's fine, everything's good to go, you've got the level of confidence, then off you go. Now sometimes what can happen is is obviously you can look at a property the let's face it the auctions then happening in 10 days time 9 days time 8 days time and so you feel this pressure and then you go to the Solicitor to say I need you to have a look at this legal pack and then solicitors not available to do it for two weeks So what do we do in those situations because we've only got you know We want to make sure it's an auction specialist solicitor that's looking at them. So what's advice? I would say one is the big thing as well for auctions getting that trusted network around you. So the more you're looking at the property, the more valuable that network becomes for you. So, you know, have a good solicitor that you work with regularly. And like you said, get one that is used to auction as well, because I have this quite a lot, especially down in the area that I'm in, there's a lot of solicitors down here and they're brilliant, you know, for an estate agency matter, they are good solicitors, they're good firms. When it comes to auction, it's hold it from full game and if they haven't got the experience and they're also not used to working to those deadlines again it leaves you open as well if you commit yourself and you're using them so speak to the auction houses because like for me I've got three preferred ones that I will regularly work with they know the process I've worked with them very often that I can trust them and they know the time scale so and most auction houses will work like that so always always chat to the auction house because they will typically, you know, they want to help you. They want more buyers in their auction room. So they want to be able to advise you on using the right people. They're going to have to deal with them. So it makes it easier for them as well. But I would say the big thing is doing as much due diligence yourself to shortlist beforehand. As long as you can do that, that will make a massive difference to you. know, looking on Street View, you know, nowadays you can do so much research online and, you know, for me as an auction house, obviously I've value property for auction day in and day out. So I'll regularly be looking at pricing side of things. I can do a lot of that from a desktop and so can buyers. So, you know, I would say do as much checks as you can. Always as well, Google the address. That's just always a little tip from me. A lot of the time with properties go to auction, if there's a bad history attached to it and you're planning to refurbish that property and then put it straight back on the open market. knowing that you know if there is going to be locally some sort of bad history there you want to be aware of that beforehand and actually a quick Google search can make a big difference so yeah I would definitely recommend people to do that and then just the more legal packs you look at the more confident you'll get with it the more you'll know what to look out for as well so and and if you like you know I love learning so like for me I like I like auction because every property that comes to auctions typically come into auction with a reason or a problem attached to it. So this is where I would say the more you look at, the more experienced you'll become as well. So it's worth putting the legwork in. I love that. And I'm just thinking about those who are listening to this podcast thinking to themselves that they would actually like to sell at auction. So if we now flip it on its head, for example, we now think of them as having a property that they haven't been able to sell through an estate agent, or they're just thinking about popping it on with an estate agent and thinking, actually, I like this idea of this conditional way of doing auctions, as it were. So let's talk about it from that side of things. So what do the sellers need to know? um about why auctions might be a really great way to actually sell their properties. think it's knowing as well, like this, and I say this a lot when I do talks, auctions have changed massively since COVID, you know, no one really likes to talk about it as much anymore, but COVID actually completely catapulted the auction industry into the 21st century, because actually before COVID, we were old school, you were holding them in room in these hotels, you know, unless you were in the area and you were traveling, it was only really those local buyers. So you had a really small audience or you went up to a London auction room who had know, two, three hundred properties and they might have a little house in your area but you know you're very limited to those audiences. Then Covid came along, everyone went online and had live stream auctions which meant you had a national audience, you're no longer limited to what you were so actually auctions are so different for sellers. So now you're not limited by your audience size but it's choosing the best method of sale for that property. And this is where I think I love talking to sellers and mainly because a lot of people see auction as your absolute last ditch attempt. know, once I've gone through three or four estate agents and it's still not sold and everyone's seen it on the open market for the last 18 months, then I'll go and stick it in an auction. I tell you, if you do that now, you are putting it in for so much less money and you are going to achieve probably a lot less because everyone watches everything online nowadays. So they can see that it's been on the market for 18 months. And actually you're only going to have the longer it stays on the more of a negative impact for you. So it's about choosing the best method of sale right at the start. And I always find if a property hasn't been seen by anybody yet, so it's not being seen by an estate agent and it could suit the auction rate, get the auction house out at the start, the same time as you're getting a state agent see appraisals, because they all do free appraisals exactly the same. If no one else has seen it. it can work really well then at growing those interest levels. So I say to a lot of people, and I've said it before on podcasts, if you're wiping your shoes on the way out, typically that's the sort of thing I'm going to get really excited about. So if it's not got a ceiling, if it's falling down, your standard auction lots that people will think is, you know, look at it and you go, yeah, 100 % that is auction. But actually, you know, odd lots work really well at auction. So if you've got an odd property where there is nothing else you can compare against on your street, and yours is the only one that's like that. Auction's brilliant because actually, in the state agent might say to you, well, it's worth X amount. You sell it for that, but you never know if someone else would have paid a little bit more. auction, you're typically advertising it for four or five weeks, letting everybody have fair chance to view it. And then when it comes to auction day, you're letting the market dictate what the true market value of it, because you've given everybody a fair chance there. Like I, you know, perfect example of that is where I am in Plymouth. We've got like a little, one bed cottage that's built into the rocks on Plymouth Ho next door to a Chinese. It's lease hold, it's shared the drains with the Chinese. It was a strange little one, very damp as you can imagine because it was built into the cliff. But we put that to auction. The estate agency appraisals were over 150 grand difference from the lowest to the highest. So the best thing she did was put it into auction with a low guide and let the market dictate what its value was. So yeah, it's not always you're absolutely what you would call a wreck is the only things that work for auction and odd lots work really well for auction Garages parking spaces, you know all those types of things as well. And we've sold an underground nuclear bunker at auction So you get all your weird and wonderful in auction We had a Lordship in the last uh auction that we had which was really really good So just a Lordship title you got no property or land but for those people that wanted to be called a Lord You could buy that basically. yeah, but yeah, it's nice because it attracts all the quirky ones. But yeah, auction, think for it's changing a lot of people's mindset towards auction as a seller to come away from. It's not absolute worst case scenario. It's the right method of sale. And you get a lot of people like auction traders, and they are people that will purely be looking at. buying from, buying properties or land that are in the wrong type of method of sale and putting them into the right method of sale. And they won't do anything to the properties. They will purely be making a profit based on the difference when they go from one to another. But it's because it's going into the right method of sale. So yeah, it's better for the initial clients to do that themselves. And that all comes down to education. Yeah, do you know I love it and I've loved speaking to Olivia because it's just so good to talk to somebody who's so clear and without the jargon, do you know what I mean? Like you've explained it in such a clear way as well and you've made, dare I say, for me personally, like you've made, and hopefully for the listeners agree, you've made auctions less daunting. Like you've made it more, more... Yeah! Yeah. it's all about. And that's what this podcast is all about. Like there's definitely ways for sellers to get involved. There's definitely way for buyers to get involved, you know, and I always say to people, the job of this podcast is to let you all know about, about everything, the good, the bad, the ugly as it were, but don't, don't lean out from it. Like lean in, but have your due diligence and learn from it. So we want you to do auctions. We want you to succeed. We want you to invest. Just have both eyes open when you invest. That's what we want to say. Yeah, yeah, I think when I view with people on properties and I hear it quite often and it's funny enough Annabel when I tap to hair on viewings and you know I love giving people information about auction because I want you to buy from us I want more people to come and buy at auction and want more people to sell at auction but the worst thing for me that I hear quite often is people say to me no, I can't do that. It's too scary. I wouldn't even touch it and I just think well, that's fine But you're leaving so many opportunities for other people then because actually if you If you get to grips with auction and you're serious about buying property, you have so much less competition in an auction room than you do in the open market. I say this quite often, perfect, I like going back to examples, but I had this property and this is just a little tip when you're looking at auction, normally the first lot of the auction and the last lot are my most confident ones that I know I've got the most interest on. And most auction houses will run that way because they want the auction to start well, they want it to end well. So they'll put their most popular properties at either end. I had a property quite a few years ago and I put it as the first lot of the auction. had, I remember 86 viewers on this property in that four weeks. And I thought, absolutely amazing. This is going to fly out. Cannot wait to offer this one. Got to auction day, one person turned up on time and it was the first lot of the auction. And the reserve was the same as the guide price, which meant that as soon as we started bidding, said, you know, we said to the audience 130, first guy put his bid in of 130, hit the reserve price, no one bid against him because no one turned up because everyone assumed it was so popular. There was just no point even going. So, and he just bought it for 130 and he sold that property just under 12 months later, 315 after renovating it. And he bought So he'd done extremely well, but what I say to everyone is don't ever, ever be scared off by interest levels or anything like that because the big thing with auction is just throw your hat in the ring. You don't have to pay money to register to bid. So just throw your hat in the ring. If you win it, fantastic. You've won it at your price, but you're never going to know unless you actually try. So it's always worth doing it. Beautiful advice. I absolutely love that. And he literally just went for it and won. And I always say this to people, like, there is only opportunity to gain. Every single time. You've got to be in it to win it. Yeah! Be in it to win it every single time. And even if it's a no, you had a great day of learning. You know, if you're not winning, you're learning. So, definitely. you know, for me as an auctioneer as well, I hear quite often after the auction, I would have paid more than that for that property. You know, people love to say that to us. So when you're bidding, there three ways to bid. And this probably goes back to another tip as well. You can bid online, you can bid by telephone, and you can bid proxy. So proxy is where you submit it to me confidentially before the auction starts, and I'll bid on your behalf as the auctioneer. Then you do telephone where you stay on the phone to one of my colleagues or you do online. If you do it online, you can only bid the next increment that I've said. So if we're going up in twos, it will come up with the next amount. That's the only option you've got. If you're a telephone bidder, you have a little bit more flexibility because you've got a direct communication with me. My colleague will stand in front of me. They'll be on the phone to you. So if you don't want to go up, you know, by five and you actually say, well, I want to go up by two. you can do that on a telephone bid. So I do recommend if you've not done auctions before in your bidding, do telephone bidding because it is holding your hand during the auction a bit more and you have a little bit more flexibility there as well. But it's always worth just getting involved and if you're registering to bid on all of them, I say to quite even if you don't want to do the auction, just put a proxy in at that amount. If you think actually I would pay 50 for that, instead of bringing me afterwards going, oh, I would have paid more than 40. put a proxy in and at least you've got a chance of winning it then. So it's always worth doing. great advice, I love that. my goodness, I have loved today's conversation. I just feel like I'm buzzing for it. I wanna go find me an auction property. I'm like, let's do it, let's go. Yeah, I feel really like I'm buzzing for it. It's like that notion of being addicted to it. I'm like, this sounds like so much fun. uh it is, it is very addictive, yeah, but it is, it's good fun and you know you can pick up some absolutely amazing opportunities at auction. I think as well it's looking at everything with different game plans, so you've probably got quite a lot of your audience where they will have certain traits that they're very good at in business, so you know if they're specific to HMOs, they're specific to doing developments, you know, I always think when you're looking at auction don't ever go in a bit like a force with blinkers on and think this is the only thing I know and this is If does it fit in this box or not? If it doesn't, I'm moving on. Actually, things will have different opportunities like title splitting and then selling them off individually. So look at things with kind of very eyes wide open. That's what I'd always say to everybody because there's different ways of making money in property, not just buying a renovation opportunity and renovating it and selling it back on the open market. There's so many other ways you can benefit from auction. I love that. That is fantastic advice. Yes. Yes, this is great. So do you know what? So many people are going to want to get in contact with you after this podcast. I have no doubt just for your personality, your information, just everything. And remind us once again, in terms of people getting in touch with you online, on socials, where is the best place for people to find you? Probably say Instagram. So my queen of the gavel page on Instagram, but you've also got obviously my own auction house. So olivia.bolting at auctionhouse.co.uk. If you email me, I'll always come back to people as well. yeah, either either is absolutely fine. Yeah, amazing. And I definitely recommend that everybody get in touch with Olivia because I think that there's so much information to get. even if I love this notion of I want everyone to do the action step of even if you're thinking about doing like bidding at auction, but you're not quite there yet. I'd like everybody to go away and actually watch an auction. Well, my so my next one, which will be my biggest auction so far is on the 9th of September and it starts at two o'clock. So if anyone wants to watch an auction, just go to our website on the day and they can just tune in and just as a watcher so you don't have to be worried about pressing the bidding button or anything like that. But yeah, so if they want to do that, that's quite a good one to start with. Amazing. I love that. Absolutely. And then Olivia, just one more question for you. And I don't ask this to everybody on this podcast. I only ask it to a certain few people because I'm always interested in certain personalities and what their answers would be to this question. And the reason I ask it is because a long time ago I went on to someone else's podcast that they did and they asked me this question and it completely stumped me for about three minutes. And I was like, my God, what's the answer to this question? And to be fair, every person I've asked has answered it quite quickly. think it was just... No, no, no, I think it was just me that was stumped. But I always think this is really, really great way to finish the podcast because it helps us to understand you a bit more and kind of the person behind the Queen of the Gabble and who Olivia is. So my question to you is this, like you've probably been on a lot of podcasts, you've probably had a lot of conversations with people. Is there any question that you wish somebody would have asked you that no one has ever asked you before? that you wish that you would love somebody to have just said or asked. God, I don't know. It's more probably, yeah, it's a hard one, isn't it? Cause it's so general. I think more the personal side. Yeah. I think personal because I think I'm a very much a career person and I'm always, and obviously as you know, I love talking about auctions, but quite often I think especially in property, people bind people. And I think you can have all the knowledge in the world if somebody doesn't get along with you or It's so important to understand the people that you're working with. So, yeah, I always think more on a personal side of why people do the things that they do. That's quite an important thing for me and that's something I like to get to the bottom of. So why do you do what you do? Because I think there are scarier things to do in life and you know one of the reasons I became an auctioneer and I kind of touched on it earlier like I went through quite a big thing when I was you know during the lockdown side where I had quite a big personal change and like quite a lot of people really struggled with God if I ever thought that I was going to be public speaking you know 20 years ago there is absolutely no way you know I was so anxious, know, I hated talking in front of people. Now I'm an auctioneer and I do it all the time. You know, I literally tell myself before every auction, I think for the first year of me doing auctions, I used to tell myself is only my mum watching? So every time I was talking to the camera, I would just assume that was my mum. And I keep, but people assume you're really confident, don't they? And I think the big thing for me is you can go through stuff in life that actually you don't want to do. So when there are things that you do want to do, but they're scary, it's never as bad as the things you don't want to do and you still got to do those. So you might as well just say yes to things and just go through the motions and you know, nobody's going to die. It's going to be something, you know, I, and that's what I used to tell myself quite a lot when I first started doing the auctioneering is I actually really love this job and nobody's going to, you know, no one wants you to do badly. So just do it and just enjoy it. And you know, that's something that I think about every time I do an auction now. So yeah. said. See, it's an interesting question. I love it. Yeah, I just I remember somebody asked me that once and I just thought, I'm going to use that. a great question. But Olivia, thank you so much for today. Ladies, as always listening, um I am uh always on Instagram available for DMs and everything. Just find me at Athena Dobson, underscore official. And of course, girls and property. um And do DM me my DMs are always open come and have a conversation um My website is also having a completely rebrand and launch which I'm super excited about so when it's up and ready I'll let you know and that's going to be girls in property pod No, it's not that's my email. So my email girls from property pod at gmail.com The email address is girls in property co.uk. There we go And then just a couple of bits from me as always guys. So number one is please do not forget on Saturday the 15th of November in Birmingham we have the Girls in Property Christmas. Well, it's not Christmas. It's Winter Party. I need to stop myself saying Christmas. It's not a Christmas party. It's winter because it's in November. So the Girls in Property Winter Party, Saturday 15th of November. If you would like to come along. Then please DM me the word winter or DM me the word party Community members go free of charge to this event non-community just come and let me know it's only 49 pounds for a ticket to cover your costs But you can come and see what girls and property is all about So, please let me know and then of course Please do not also forget that I am at this point when this podcast would have been launched would have also have launched officially the girls in property Accelerator program as well So we, I popped this all together. I did a massive Q and A with everyone and decided instead of doing a girls and property mastermind to make it into an accelerator. So do come and speak to me. There are only 15 spaces available as it is a beta test. um With the pre-launch that happened, there was already five signups from that one. So at the time when this is recording in August, there are 10 spaces left. But when the recording goes out, just check with me how many spaces are left. and I will also send you the recordings so can find out all about it and then feel free to book in a call with me. But super excited, it's built by me as a female for female entrepreneurs and it is gonna be a mix of aligning mindset and implementation and who you are as a person and your why, which is what we've spoken about today with then the actual strategies that you want to do going forward and we will help you get there. um I'm also doing this and co-existing this if you like, co-inhabiting this. with Akhtar Khan, which is super exciting. So Akhtar is gonna be leading the mindset section. I'm gonna be leading the strategy section. And if you have not listened to my episodes with Akhtar yet on overcoming limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, burnout, then please do go and listen. He's an absolute hero and has helped me immensely in my own journey. So super exciting. Come and talk to me. And if you're interested, we can have a chat. um But Olivia, I would love to leave you with the last words for today's listeners. So what would be your final bit of sort of advice or inspiration you'd love to leave with the listeners with today? just think if more people go to auctions. yeah, just if you are interested in auction, don't ever be afraid to pick up the phone if you do have any questions and you want to chat to another female. I'm always, always more than happy to help. But it'd be lovely to just see more ladies coming through the auction rooms. Absolutely and if it's okay with you, I would absolutely love I think to also get you in to come and speak for the community for for my women I think that there are so many wonderful women in there who just need that sort of extra guide in terms of auctions and I think that you could be amazing to do that So we'll set it up and hopefully see you in there. Um, but ladies as always Thank you for listening wherever you're listening from really really appreciate it Whether you're walking the dog taking the kids to school or you're a woman on site Let us know and have an amazing week and we will speak to you soon. Have a good one guys. Take care. Bye.