From Interiors to Staging: Lessons from the Design Boss Diary

In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast, Athena Dobson chats with Lisa Marie Elkhadraoui, also known as Design Boss Diary. Lisa shares her journey in interior design and property staging, opening up about the lessons she has learnt along the way. We talk about the importance of women supporting one another, the challenges new designers face, and how personal growth can shape success. Lisa also explains the difference between interior design and staging, and the practical steps that help turn a business idea into something sustainable.

What shines through in our conversation is the importance of community, celebrating wins, and surrounding yourself with people who share the same values. From the moment we met, Lisa and I just clicked, both professionally and personally. Our values as people and brands aligned, and so it felt completely natural to welcome her in as one of the newest partners of Girls in Property. It is my pleasure to introduce Lisa to Girls in Property with her debut podcast episode.

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So how is everybody doing today? I hope you're all doing great, whether you're listening on your Monday or your Friday or whatever you're up to and I hope the sun is shining. So if you've tuned into today's episode, my guessing is, is that you've either seen this person around because let's face it, she's fabulous and everywhere in the most beautiful way. And what I really want to touch on is this notion of many things actually. I want to touch on interior design. want to touch on staging. I want to touch on kind of like what that means within the industry now and also introduce this absolutely fantastic, brilliant, wonderful person as one of the brand new advertisers and sponsors with Girls and Property because it's all about aligning with the right people. And Lisa by far is one of these fantastic people. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce Lisa Marie, also known as Design Boss Diary on Instagram. So hey, Lisa. Hey, oh, what an introduction. I love that. of course. Do you know what you deserve? Like an introduction, as long as the whole podcast, you really do. Because in this industry, always, it's really, I always talk about this, Lisa, like I always talk about energy and I always talk about how you can meet people and the energy in which you feel when you meet those people. And I'm going to come on, I'm going to talk about that within this podcast, about how we met, how it all came together and almost what's like now driving it forward. And I think that that's what Really I've learned being in this industry so much is to trust your gut and really feel the energy of people that are around you and the collaborations that can then come from that which are so incredible and obviously welcome as the brand new sponsor and advertiser on Girls and Property. Yay! I'm absolutely honored and it's just so beautiful to partnership up with another queen like yourself in the industry and do some amazing things and be able to support your community really and just have fun along the way and meet all your gorgeous women. And yeah, it's just, it's perfect. I love it. love it. and oh, I've just got so much to talk to you about. But before before we sort of delve into it and all the things I want to talk to you about, can you first for anyone who doesn't know you, can you first please introduce yourself? I'd love to really, really know more about kind of Lisa, if that makes sense and kind of like your story. where you started, what you're doing right now, how you got into everything that you're doing, and almost the exciting direction you wanna take it as well. I'm really curious to hear that from you. And maybe something really exciting that people don't know about you, maybe, as well might be quite fun. So take it away. So my name is Lisa Marie El-Khedrawi. I have been in the construction property and design industry for I'd say about 15 years now. I was in the fashion industry before I fell into this beautiful world. And I started off in a high-end property development studio in Surrey where I did... a little bit of marketing and PR and sales m in between the fashion industry. And at the time they had interior designers come in to do their show homes. And the more I studied them and looked at everything going on in the background, I thought to myself, like, I can do that. And this is going back to most probably 2011 when I first had this notion. I had been with my husband. two years before that and we had started to do a lot of property, so rentals and our own houses. And the fashion industry and the interior design industry are very, very similar in terms of trends and creativity. So I had gone to the directors and said, look, let me get involved in the next show homes. And the more I got into it, uh I'm also self-trained. So I don't have any actual physical university. degrees or anything like that in construction and property. And I started to heavily go into more construction and property of new build and renovation, restoring grade two listed buildings. And the interior design almost came as a by-product of that in the sense of this, we worked a lot on space and flow, uh specification of kitchens and bathrooms, skirting boards, architrave doors, handles. and looking at the textures within specification. And then the 1 % was dressing the houses for sale. That's where the interior design. So it was almost kind of a journey between ground up, getting the core and shell and then working on the inside and then the pièce de la resistance of putting all this beautiful furniture and uh curtains and soft furnishings and accessories. So I did that for many years and I was... very lucky to be able to go into the luxury sector. And I remember very quickly, working on two, seven million pound houses in Wimbledon. And I think that was the big pinnacle point of my career where it turned where, I was working on super prime property without even realizing it. And I had this huge passion and flair and within That year of 2014, I won two big industry awards, which were best interior designer in the UK and best interior design property. And we went up alongside the likes of Hill House, Barclay, Octagon. And I kind of got soaked up in the magic of this is just a passion and this is what I love. But I don't actually think at the time I realized the extensity of having awards like that under my belt. And I went on to develop the most amazing portfolios. And today I have a portfolio that I've contributed to over 150 properties in the UK. And I've also done a church, which is the little fun fact that I've been able to do a spiritual place of worship, which again, I never intended to do in the portfolio, but I've done that. And then... Off the back of all of this, whilst I've been in the construction and property industry, I opened my own interior design studio up about nine years ago. em And that was really to make my stamp in the industry for what I wanted to be known for, which was this timeless elegant classic look m and to really work with some wonderful families, creating safe spaces for them. And then... Along within that comes the latest company. So I have three companies today, a property development company. have my award-winning interior design studio, but my latest baby, as I call her, she's 18 months old and she came from a place of passion and soul. And that was because I didn't have an easy journey when I opened the studio up in 2016. I got met with a lot of resilience from other women, other women saying, you can't do this. you're never going to succeed. And I'm a very curious person. So I want to go out and ask questions. And I got a lot of doors slammed in my face. It's very much a gatekeeping industry where people keep information to themselves and they're not really willing to share. And I always had a pipeline dream to open up a coaching studio. And I think that comes from when I was in the fashion industry as a side hustle, I taught in universities and I taught students. and to go into the world of fashion merchandising. So I've always had a love and passion for teaching, but I always wanted to have something where women didn't go through what I went through when I was setting up my business in the early years. And the big ticking point for me was back in 2024, I was sitting in a huge conference in London and I thought to myself, if they can do it, I can do it too. and I was sitting with my coaches at the time. And I just remember coming home to my husband on the 8th of February, 2024. And I was like, that's it, I'm going for it. I'm going to be a coach. There is no way I'm letting women sit there in silence and suffer for their businesses. And within six weeks, the company was up and running. We launched the coaching company within 30 minutes. We had our first woman in through the door. And now after 18 months of it running, We've not only built a business to 100,000 in its first year, we're on trajectory for quarter of a million, and we've generated just under a million in 35 women's businesses and completely dismantled and rebuilt them to a profitable, confident business through strategy and soul. So as much as I love construction, I love property, I love interior design, I love show homes, but this is the baby that's gonna grow into the beast that... we are now looking at going global. Yeah, brilliant. I love it. love it. Ladies, can you all see why I was like Lisa, we need to chat. Like it's fabulous. And you know what's so beautiful about it is I feel like Lisa and I'm sure that you have this within your day to day world as well. meet extraordinary women. I really do. And and I meet women who, who have something that happened to them. They have some level of, um, injustice or they have some level of trauma that they go through in their own life. And as a result of that, they say, I don't want another woman to go through what I went through. And that's how majority of these incredible businesses are then formed through that. And as you say, you know, what's been so beautiful is I've been on this journey myself about this aspect that you just said about strategy and soul and aligning them together. And I really think that that is the gift that keeps on giving is when you have that soul and that strategy. And of course I came to your visionary day, which was beautiful. I loved it. I met my higher self, which was fabulous and she was great. Yeah. And the, and the, and the women who were there. It's really great, know, when you walk into a room and again, you can feel the energy of the women around you. And when you're at these female-only events, they really hit different. You can just sense this sisterhood. I don't know how to describe it, but everybody is there to, with warmth and everybody is there to uplift one another. I used to think Lisa, naively, I used to think that that would be every single female room that I would ever walk into and that is not the case. It really isn't the case. There are some rooms that I have walked into where the women have not been as open, have not been as giving. And I think it's to do with the person who is leading that room. And it's the energy that the leader gives off that then dictates. the room as it were and so that's why your rooms are so gorgeous and I'm happy to say this and I'm proud to say this that's why my rooms are so gorgeous because it's it's the people that come together that have that as it were and you know what's so interesting is you said that it was women who actually said to you you can't do this you're not good enough to do this how dare you even think about doing this oh Why is it that women are putting other women down in these industries? It's baffling. I mean, what do feel about that and so the resistance you've had from women? I feel absolutely heartbroken by it. And you're right, I've been to so many events that you naturally feel, I think because we carry so much energy ourselves and we have so much belief on our strategy and our soul work that we do, we naturally assume that all women will be like us. They're not sadly. And in the industry, not only from where I came from in fashion, but in interiors. and construction and property. There are some women out there that just are completely ruthless. And now you can be a tenacious business woman and still have heart and soul, but it still goes on today where women tear each other down. I just, A, I have no time for it. And B, I have a very strong sense of um determination, I think, when it comes to my own coaching company and my own businesses, that actually it's collaboration over communication. And I'll give you the perfect example. I am building two houses in Surrey at the moment. And through my community of interior designers that I coach, one of them is in my higher level mastermind. And she's actually not far from here. She's about 30 minutes down the road. And I could, even though I'm coaching her, I could see her talent and I invited her to come in and take off my hands, the whole interior design and spec and to work alongside her and give her a 40,000 pound contract because I thought I would rather collaborate with a woman that I can see so much talent and know that this would be such a brilliant thing for us to do. oh and she was completely taken back by it. And I think, well, of course I want to collaborate with you. Of course I want to collaborate with women and do amazing things. And I think it comes down to women's insecurities that they actually know that they're not as good or they get scared because other people are out there. And it's not about that. It's about when women come together, their strengths increase like together as two beautiful souls. Some women just don't see that and I even 18 months ago when I opened my coaching company I got a message land down in my inbox from another very well-known interior design coach basically saying I'm watching you beware and I kind of said whoa, I actually looked up to you like I love the stuff that you do and you just gonna show your true colors like That's not cool That is not cool. And I think it is really sad and disappointing that women out there can tear each other down. And do know, I always say there's enough chimney pots out there for everyone to work. And it's so true. Enough chimney pots, I love that. chimney pots for everyone to work. And it's the same in our industries with coaching as well, that there is enough work out there and women come in and feed off different women's energies. So the beauty about what we both do, you know, with your events and my events is we gather communities of women that really want to feel that energy and that are on the same vibrational wavelength. So when you naturally go into one of our spaces, you are met with so much love and warmth because we are all about collaboration over competition. So we bring the women in that have the same values as us. And I'm just so sad that there are women out there and if anyone is listening that has sadly torn a woman down, it needs to stop because on the other side of the love and the warmth of these communities that we have. It is just gorgeous. Yeah. And do know what you've shown me, Lisa? What you've shown me is you can have fun in business. Business can be fun. I think that's my, I think that's the lesson I've really taken from you. Anytime I'm around you, anytime we even spoke about this advertising opportunity, the whole process has been fun. It has in the best way, hasn't almost been that serious because it doesn't need to always be serious. It can be that let's go for dinner. Let's go for cocktails. Let's take over the world together and just be amazing and that's what I love about it and this notion of just people come into your life at the right time when they're meant to come into your life and I met you at um, chevron, I think it's chevron, uh that was it, thank you, summer shift that she did and I remember you were, we'd never met before, you were literally there and and you spoke and I remember looking at you when you spoke and I was like I need to be friends with her. Like, I need to literally just go towards you. And we ended up having lunch together. And I think, I think everyone around us was like, they're just off in their little corner because we were just like talking about taking over the world within about 10 seconds of meeting one another. And then we were already like, right, we're going to do that. And we're going to do that. And off we go. And here we go. And I think what I'd love to tell the listeners is the biggest, the biggest gift that I can give the listeners right now to think about is Whenever you're meeting people, whenever you're thinking about doing things or ideas, it doesn't need to be overthought and it doesn't need to take 10 years and it doesn't need to have go through 10 issues of planning and thinking and overthinking. paperwork, just go for it. Just go for it and just trust your gut and just, know, instantly when we met it was like, right, this is the idea and this is what we're gonna do and this is how we're gonna do it and great and off we went. think also like when we then met up in London and just spoke about so many amazing things about what we could do and how we could both work and bring communities together and partnerships and little projects and things like that. It just felt really natural. And it's like, what about this? This sounds really fun. What about that? That's cool. What about this? And that's how business should be done. And that's how I run this particular business for the coaching company. And it's all about alignment. So I am naturally, I'm a very high vibrational character, human being, and I feed like you off a lot of energy. So when I can feel a woman has got the exact same vibrational energy, I naturally magnetize to her. And that's it with us. And I think the beauty of partnerships and working together with things is it's so seamless because it's aligned and it's right. And I think for any woman out there that is doing transactions or collaborations with other women with your gut feel, if it feels seamless and it feels right and it's just flowing, then you just nurture that and you don't put any blocks in place. If you think, this feels sticky, this feel hard, then yes, you naturally take a step back and question it. But the best partnerships come from when you find your women and you find your tribe and you collaborate with people that are very much along the same wavelength. I think there's a huge thing in that. Yeah, beautifully said. love that. So Lisa, before we go into sort of the design element of today's sort of conversation, because we've got so many interior designers and stages that listen to this podcast. And I'm just so excited to really help and really touch on that as well. I've had so many join the community recently. I think I do too. I'm not gonna lie. I think it's because they've seen me hang out with you. they're like, oh, she... yeah she's like she hangs out with Lisa she must be cool too I'm gonna join her community and so I'm just gonna give you a lot of credit in that but yeah we've had loads and and you know what's been so um evidential to me actually in and I've noticed this particularly with the designers in the stages is that there is literally whenever they come into the community there's a whole group of them now Everyone has been sharing their ideas and everybody has been saying oh Can you just help me with this or what do you think of this or this and everyone is actually being really open? Nothing has been guarded. Nothing has been no This is only mine and I definitely noticed that the most Within the designer in the stage of world that they seem to be very much about Let's all help one another. Let's all come together and I think it's been really beautiful to watch that actually um Which I'm gonna be coming on and asking more questions about in just a second Before I do that, Lisa, what would you say, as you know, with Girls and Property, and I know that you love this with Girls and Property, we always celebrate because I feel that as women, we do not celebrate enough within life. sort of, and I bet me and you are the same in this, we sort of hit a target and then we jump to the next thing, we jump to the next thing. So let's take a moment to really reflect and to say what it is that you're celebrating at the moment. my gosh, gosh. um I'm celebrating the fact that September has been one of the most amazing months I didn't plan. So I'll start off with, um, we hit our highest financial sales months, which is amazing because I I never planned to hit 45,000 in the month and, Wow 45 in a month! That's amazing! And we've tipped over our first 12,000 income into the business in a month. So that, that I'm really soaking in because I'm just like, okay, that was a bit of a pipeline dream six months ago. And it's just naturally happened by pivoting certain things in the company. I'm also celebrating the women that I've got in my world today. And really reflecting on that going into Q4 that I've got 30 women on the books and that each one are doing some absolutely phenomenal things in their business. So I really am celebrating that. And I'm celebrating the connections and partnerships that I'm going to really go into in Q4, such as us. and your amazing podcast and all the things that you're doing as well, as well as my new studio that we've just moved into. and also the fact that when I sat in the room with you over the summer and we had that amazing business day together, I made myself a promise and that promise was to do a huge automation in the company and that automation is 80 % complete and we're to be launching it in October. So there is so much that I'm celebrating this month and so much that I'm thankful for and grateful for as well. beautiful. I adore that. absolutely love that and automation is huge. I'm actually going to celebrate sort of this. Well, I'm actually celebrating this partnership, Lisa, because for me, what's been so beautiful is the fact that it's really interesting, you know, so I'm always very open on this podcast and everybody knows that because I think it's the best way to be to kind of Inspire others that come through. So when I first started this podcast, I looked for sponsors for the podcast and what ended up happening, I understand why it happened, it's because one, I was very lost and I wasn't really aligned in who I was or what I wanted, but I ended up getting a sponsor who quite frankly paid me a lot of money, a lot of money every month. And at the time the business needed cash flow because you know, girls on property was new. So this cash flow that came in really fueled the flames. But what ended up happening was, was I ended up selling my soul for the money. So the partnership was not aligned. um This person was actually asking me to disinvite people from events. um And if I didn't disinvite them, they would pull the sponsorship. um And one day this happened to me. and I haven't really told this story before but this person told me that if I didn't pull a certain person from an event they would pull the sponsorship and I sat on it and it was the day I decided to say no thank you to the sponsorship anymore and that was a massive day for me I think I changed as a person that day because I basically turned down over £3,000 a month within the business in the first year of Girls and Property when it was growing because it went against my morals as a human being and who I am. And I think there isn't enough of this in this industry at the moment. I think people are just chasing the money and chasing all of that. Yeah. So what I've now learned as a result of that is I've learned that there's so much more to partnership and there's so much more to life and what I'm gonna celebrate as a result of that is our partnership because our partnership is pure joy Lisa like see it's yeah, it's the Happiness actually is such a gorgeous word to use joy and happiness and funny enough Emma Finn did a did an angel card pool for me for my birthday my 34th birthday. She sent me a by the way. We're celebrating your birthday, mum. whistle in September. I'm gonna hold on to that It's my birthday month. Yeah, absolutely, but Emma Finn who's gorgeous, you know, go check out Emma She's an amazing amazing woman She sent me an angel card reading for my birthday and one of the cards that she pulled was joy this word joy And I saw and do you know what's really weird? I started seeing joy everywhere I went the person that's come into my program was wearing a joy top when I was speaking to her I passed the car and their license plate said joy And when I think of you Lisa, I think of joy because it's just fun and it doesn't need to be serious. It doesn't need to be, um, have anxiety behind it and all this, you know, horribleness. Like it can just be that you can make money and enjoy life at the same time. And I, and I think that that's what in a way you have actually taught me is you can be successful and make money and be a bad ass bitch. and be happy at the same time. And I almost didn't realise that two existed. And what did it for me, Lisa, with you, was where you, I'm celebrating this as well, this is my celebration of you, is when you took me to London and you said, right, you're gonna come to the London, in Marble Arch, private members club, and you said, I want you to talk to me about this idea for this programme you wanna create, which I mentioned at Siobhans Day. And you said, I want to help you talk it through with you and I want to help you and ideas for how to put it together and launch it as it were. And I said, that sounds amazing. What do you want in return? What can I do? And you just said to me, I don't need anything in return. I don't need anything. I just want to help you. And it was so, it was so refreshing to hear a person, a woman say to me, I don't need anything. I just want to help you. And I was like, who is this woman? I need to just be near her. Always in life and from that this most beautiful friendship Sparked and then from that what I mentioned about then the sponsorship and the advertising you were like I 100 % want to be in on that and I was like it didn't need to Be a hard sell. It didn't need to be this big thing It just naturally and organically came together and I think that's what I'm gonna celebrate is natural organic connection, you know I love that. But also, I want to celebrate you for a moment because we're just literally, it's a podcast of celebration guys. That's all it is. Yeah, you're not going to learn anything today apart from celebrating women. Yeah. But I think with what I'd like to celebrate with you is as a cheerleader of you and sitting on the sidelines, I've really enjoyed watching you on your socials. sell this beautiful program and you haven't even sold it. It's just you've put it out there and the right women have aligned into the program. And from what was a conversation that we had with a couple of notes and looking at kind of, you know, like a webpage and looking at structures and stuff like that and just having a really lovely soulful conversation then led into this beautiful product. And then from this beautiful product, you're just chatting about it and then welcoming women in and then bam, it's sold out. So that is wonderful. And I have watched women over the years try and get group programs up and running and they sell nothing. The fact that you did it with love and you also, it was fun. It was effortless. It was seamless. That just goes to show that That is how business should be done again. Because if you believe in a product and you put it together and you have the right energy behind it, it sells. You don't need the hard sells. You don't need to sell your soul with it. Women will feel that. They'll feel the belief behind it. They'll see the value. They'll see the love that you give that product and they'll naturally want to be in it. So a huge, not a huge well done for doing it, but a well done for... creating something that came from the heart and then it's just out there and it's a living breathing thing and it's just happened like that. Well done. you go. We are heart led people and I hold dear to it. I hold dear to it, honestly Lisa, there's not enough of us in this industry and the more the merrier, I say, the more the merrier. yes, right, interior design. Otherwise people are like, right, you two, off you go, go away. Yeah, anyone wants to join us for cocktails at the Ivy Asia? Let us know, we're going for dinner. opening up a wait list after the podcast, so please comment below. Yeah. That could be so dangerous. We could have the whole restaurant out. Could you imagine? 50 women at the Ivy Asia for dinner. my god. Well, by the way, I did really quickly. I had this for afternoon tea. I did an Asian inspired afternoon tea with mom on my birthday. Fabulous. Like instead of sandwiches, it was like spring rolls, dumplings. My favorite is lychee cocktail. So I obviously had a lychee cocktail and a couple of glasses of champagne. I mean, at one point me and my mom were absolutely pissed at this restaurant on my birthday. Just chatting away. We had a great time. It was amazing. Yes. Fabulous. Right. Back to it. So, Lisa, I have a question for you that has actually been a question I've been meaning to ask for some time because I need to know the answer to this question. Oh, you will. You will. 100%. What is the difference between an interior designer and a property stager? What's the difference? Okay, so I'm going to answer it from most probably a non-technical term to how I understand it from being in the industry myself doing both. Okay, so we have uh property stages or people that put show homes together. em And you've got two strands of that before we get onto the interior design. So we have people that will... flip properties and do rentals or renovations and then put a property up. But they need to stage it for a cell. So it's just basically showing how a house could work with said furniture in it. Okay, so that's the kind of basic entry level. We then have the show homes. And what show homes do is it crosses over more with interior design, okay? Where... designers come in and produce the most beautiful houses, but they have the purpose behind it. Not so much to show how the house can work, but how you can sell a lifestyle. Okay? So you will have a particular target market that you want and you sell a lifestyle. And what that is, is setting the house up in a way. to show how your target market could live in it very, very comfortably. So I think over the last 15 years, I have been more at the higher end in the luxury show homes. And out of all of the show homes I've done, which I have lost count of now, I've only ever had to decant and move one show home on because we sell show homes for lifestyles. So we really think about, the actual physical space, textures, colors. Moving into interior design, an interior designer will go in and take a brief for an actual private residential client. So with a show home or property staging, it's very much business to business and you work with a business to look at a target market. You don't have a individual person. With an interior designer, you... do many, different things. So whether that's floor plans and layouts, textures, colors, spatial awareness, putting rooms together, doing whole houses, specifications, et cetera. You go in and work with a family or your ideal client and you are taking the brief from them and understanding what they want. and you create their roadmap for their end vision. So something I do as an interior designer, which maybe a property stage may or may not do, and this is where my lines get blurred because I've done all three, but I've always come at it from the interior design angle, is I will go into a concrete room or a concrete space and I'll scan the space, I'll shut my eyes. and I'll visualize how that space should look and feel. And then I start to write the roadmap of how we get there. So what we actually physically need to achieve to get to that end goal right from the beginning stage, from the heavy specification work, right through to moving different trades in, and then obviously doing the final beauty of fabrics and textures and rugs and accessories and furniture. So an interior designer can actually take that person's brief in a consultation, translate it into words, translate it into imagery, but then create the roadmap to be able to get there. And there is a real power in doing that, a real super talent. And the more you can understand your ideal clients and feel what they want to feel, the better the outcome is going to be. So, With regards to show homes, what we do is we understand this visual target market and we try and get into the psyche of that target market without them being there. But interior design, we have our client there. We're living, we're breathing them because they're real. So the two can be different, but there's a lot of crossover. And then I say, like I said, the entry level of that with generic property staging, is just, they say the house just has to go on the market and just show how it needs to be used. So then you see kind of very basic level entry staging just so that people aren't going in and looking at empty boxes. Because I think if you're not in the creative industry, it is very difficult to go in and envisage how you're going to use a space. And the beauty of designers across the board is that they can bring visions to life through the use of color, texture, furniture, et cetera. So in a roundabout way, and I hope I've explained it, that is the difference, but also the crossover. Yeah, that's fabulous. And I think you just said a fantastic point there, which is that the stages are more sort of B2B, whereas the interior designers are more customer focused. I never saw it in that way. You're totally right. And it's really interesting because I think that if I was ever going to flip a property again, I would have it staged once it was finished because I've been in a position where I've gone to buy a property before and it's been finished to a very high standard, but there's been no furniture in it. And I'll be honest with you, Lisa, I really struggle to visualize the space and so the estate agent usually says to me well you could put this over here and you could put this here and I'm like yeah I just don't see it whereas I feel like if it was staged I'd be like oh that's where the dining table's meant to go that's where the sofa's meant to go and I can see myself living in it and I always suggest to people now when they're struggling to sell their properties, I do get quite a few women coming to me in the community saying, Athena, the market's really flat, the flip's not selling at the moment, I'm not sure why. One of my first questions is, is the property staged or is it empty? It's one of my first questions and then I go into the market research, et cetera. And if they say to me, no, I would say, have you ever thought about getting a stager in? because then it will help in terms of visualising the space for others, like what's the feedback been from when people have gone in and looked at the property. So I think staging is a really, really interesting one actually, and there's a necessity for it. really powerful, but you just touched upon something there that women said, you know, the market's really flat. There is always an excuse in the market. I just want to make that point. Okay. It's like in the coaching industry, no one's buying at the moment. No one buys in December. That's absolute BS. Okay. And for the pure fact that there is always things that fluctuate the market from, uh, unsettlement and unrest. across different nations and countries, uh mini recessions, Brexit was a huge one, uh all of that. But where the success lies in the best companies, no matter how big your company is, is understanding your product and creating a USP within your product. So if you're flipping houses and you're wanting to sell them, Really think about who is your end target market and create the product for your end target market. Don't just create it and put it out there and be like, well, it's not selling because of this, this, this. No, because if you looked at your competitors, your competitors are shifting. They're moving stock. So why are you not moving stock? And it might be you have to go back in and look at the framework of your actual business of how you're setting up to move stock. So it's really interesting when it comes to this and you've hit the nail on the head and said, you know, is it staged? And I think so many people forget about that last element. If you can create a property that you know who your ideal target market is at the end, and you can do a bit of psyche work to get into the mentality of how they buy, what they want, and you can keep as little as that 10,000 pound back. to create the right smells going into the house. have clients, everyone loves bread, but if you can't make bread, what we say is scents and diffusers for certain times of years or certain styles. So I have a fantastic client at the moment and she has generated, so she has a show home company and when she first came to me last July, she was on 180,000. We've been able to pivot her business over a million in less than 13 months because what we did is we looked at a whole staging company. created strategies for it. And it was like, if I create this look, I'm going to have these smells associated. So when my client comes in, it's the connection between the smell and the vision, which will set them aside. from going and looking at other properties, they will always go back to the smell and the vision of your house. And then in certain looks where they're a little bit uh warmer and rustic, she has deeper amber tones and woody scents. So actually go in and look at the end goal. What do you want your client to feel when they open that door and the first thing, because they'll judge the property in the first five seconds. They want to be hit by warm palette tones, and that could be as simple as understanding color therapy from north to south facing, because if you've got the wrong color, even if you're using one color for the, the whole of the house, that entry level point into the house, if it's south facing and you have tones that do not work with the south facing property, you are gonna set the wrong energy levels off. If the scents are not right and it's a bit damp or the windows haven't been opened, you're gonna set the senses off in a different way. So think about how your property is perceived in the first five seconds of your ideal clients going into that. And that comes down with HMOs, that comes down with rentals, that comes down with stages, with show homes, with designers, absolutely everyone. It's so important to think about when someone steps foot in your house, how do you want them to feel? And we had this, we did so much market research with color. And now I have three or four colours in my Bible that I know the minute someone steps in the first thing they say is, gosh it feels like home. And it's because we've been able to get the colour palette and the scent right. And that's sometimes even without it being staged. Wow, that's incredible, isn't it? And there's so much to it. I feel like sometimes, and I could be wrong in saying this, that it's not given enough attention to within this space. Everyone thinks about the floor plan and the architects and everything. And then they say, do you need an interior designer to come in and design the property for you before it? And I feel like some people will say yes, and some people will say no, because they don't understand the value that interior designer brings to the actual end product. And just by you saying that, like, of course it's of course people are going to be feeling like, oh, what did that smell like? How did that feel? Of course they're going to do that. It sounds so, so like basic in a way, in a lovely way, you know? someone was going to look at three properties that day, what is it that's going to set your property out? And I say this exactly to the women that I coach. Your company has to have a USP. So actually what's going to set you aside from someone buying in two other companies or I'm going to buy their services over that one. It comes down to properties as well. So if someone is going to look at three or four properties that day, How is your property going to set precedence over the others? Because you all blend into one. Yeah, exactly. With people that come to you, it's ladies that you work with, so what the ladies that come to you that are starting out in interior design, starting out as a stager, what would you say are their biggest challenges that they face at the moment or wants for their business as it were? think the biggest challenges that they come to, I've mainly done 70 % more launch and grow than scale. em We've got some excellent scaling businesses on the portfolio, but the biggest thing is women don't understand their framework of their business. So they don't have the right pillars in place in their business. And they don't understand how each of those pillars are intrinsically linked. to get the end result. So this is something that then is also blended in with lack of clarity on pricing and services, lack of confidence within themselves because there's a lot of self-limiting beliefs and me and you have had this conversation lot because we're so much driven by the soul aspect. And they think, it's all about strategy, strategy, strategy. It's not. 80 % is the internal work as well. So a lot of women that come to me that are stages and interior designers, the whole picture, the whole framework is broken and they don't look at their business as a framework. look at it, they are basically running glorified hobbies because they also don't understand their financial situation. So if I say to them, okay, what's your forecast for 2026? And they're like, well, what do you mean? I'm like, well, how much you've already forecasted to make? What do you want to make? What do your quarters look like? Where are you benchmarking your pipeline? And they're like, I've got none of that in place. So then I'm like, okay, well, what about if you're saying there's a misalignment between the wording on your website and your messaging, have you actually sat down and looked at your purpose, your USP, your values, your missions, your purpose? And normally we find disconnection between them. So we start working on that pillar. And then we look at the services and the pricing and how they go out to market and how they tender their communication, their visibility, their strategies, their internal work. So a lot of women don't understand that there are six or seven foundational pillars to running successful interior design and staging companies. And sadly, they don't get taught this in interior design or business school. And it's something that I've actually found. through a lot of my learnings as an interior designer. And when I opened Design Boss Diary, I set up these frameworks to implement in women's businesses. And if you come in and start working with me, in the first six months, I've had women that have seen their sales revenue uh three and a half times triple just by setting up the right foundations. So their biggest struggles are, they don't have the right frameworks in place. It's not because they're not talented, they're talented, but they don't have the framework or the business acumen in place. So when you say framework, Lisa, just to sort of help listeners out a bit, what were some examples of framework when you're talking about it? So framework would be anything from your purpose and positioning is one piece of a framework puzzle. uh Community and connection is another piece of a framework. And when I want, I want you to think about this. So let's visualize a jigsaw, okay? And there's lots of pieces on the table. And when we make the puzzle of the framework, it's your business. And if there are cracks running through your business, it means the puzzle's not put together properly. So one piece of the puzzle is purpose and positioning. The other piece of the puzzle is pricing. The other piece of the puzzle is branding. The other piece of the puzzle is community and connection. The other piece is services and sales. And if there are cracks within the framework that they're not put together properly and you do not have all of them flowing in harmony, You will not have a successful business model. And this is something that I've been working on quite passionately that we're launching in 2026, that we're to go out to work with all business women now to teach them the particular frameworks they need in their business. It cannot just be, you know, for me, as much as I love interior design and staging and property, I'm seeing a lot more women, business women come to me to say, talk me through that framework. So you need to look at your business as a puzzle and the puzzle needs to go together and flow. And a lot of my women will hear me talk about, need to work on and in your business. And I think this is something we touched about when we met, is you're working on the business is exactly that. Your framework, your advertising, your marketing, your strategies, your visibility, your forecast, your sales, how is the business flowing? And working in the business is working on your properties, your... projects, your clients. You can't just work in your business and a lot of women work in it and wonder why they are not growing year on year. They're staying stagnant, they're staying stuck. They can't make those consistent months. They're not winning projects. They're hitting glass ceilings and it's because the framework is not there in place. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it definitely takes time to get that framework in place. I think that when you're starting out, I think it's quite, it's quite tricky, isn't it? Because it's a great place to start because we need to get our framework right from the get go. But I mean, when I first started Lisa, and I don't know what you were like, but I was an absolute busy fool. Like, you know, was trying to launch everything at the same time. I was trying to do everything. I was trying to give myself everything. And it's only now that I'm able to kind of step back and go, okay. How can I actually serve the women but actually build the business at the same time? What processes need to be in place? What systems need to be in place? How is it? And when you talk about forecasting, it's like, right, what is the forecast? Okay, anything else that isn't aligned with the forecast no longer serves me. So I'm therefore gonna be saying no to more stuff because it doesn't align with what the forecast is. And it's like your brain as you go through business, it's like your brain just starts to almost evolve, if you like. It's like learning a new language. or learning a new course at school and like you're never gonna be good at maths day one on your first lesson in maths and you're never gonna be good the first day you literally go to companies house pay your 50 quid and get your directors letter through the post we've all been there it's not gonna happen from day one you have to be patient but give yourself a couple of years and suddenly you're gonna start thinking about all of this but you could accelerate it even quicker with people like yourself who and work with a coach yeah. and who asks you the right questions to then think bigger and to think differently. And this is where I think it works really well. And the name, I'm really curious, the name Design Boss Diary, Design Boss Diary, where did that come from? Good question. um I think I get called a bit of a boss in the industry. Sounds like, should I maybe in a good way? Well, talk to subcontractors about that. They'll have a different story, but um it's like the interior designer or the boss is coming on. but I think for me, I wanted to start this off as a diary. kind of like diary entries to support women, to help them kind of shine their own light and unlock. So diary had to be in there somewhere and obviously design because it was design and boss and we just threw them all together and it kind of just worked. I again didn't put too much onerous on the name. I was like, if it flows, it goes, let's just. call it that and I could have called it Lisa Marie El-Khedraoui's business coaching, but then that just seemed so mundane. So it was Design Boss Diary. It's like my interior design company, Mosca. Mosca's my maiden name. And in Italy, you obviously keep your maiden name, but I married my husband and took his name. So actually having Mosca design and style meant that I had a little bit of my maiden name always with me in my company. So yeah, it's design boss diary. That's what it is. Moska is easier to pronounce in El Quadrari by the way. Totally, absolutely 100%. If I had a pound for every time I've had to pronounce my married surname, I would be a billionaire. I love it. Do you know what's so funny is obviously we had this conversation when, I came to see you, was like, Lisa, how do you pronounce your surname? And you obviously told me, and then I started this podcast and when I pressed record, I was like, no, no, I've forgotten it. So I'm just going to go with Lisa Marie, design boss diary. I know my brain. say it, it's cool. it's, um yeah, it's a unique one. Yeah, but you know, I still get to this day, I still get Anthea all the time. Even though it's spelled A-T-H, some people still put an N. I'm like, where's the N gone? But okay, Anthea. I know, I know. So I take total, full respect for people and their names. And I'm like, don't get it wrong, don't get it wrong, you got it wrong. Okay. I love it. It's totally cool. I know. So what would, what would your advice then, then be Lisa, just before sort of, um, I let people know where they can find you. What would your one bit of advice be for interior designer or a stager who's starting out listening to this podcast? Cause I'm telling you, there's going to be quite a few of them. They DM me, there's loads of interior designers and stages out there and they listen to this podcast and they're like, Lisa, give me that one bit of nugget. Give me that one thing that you wish you'd have told yourself when you first started. What would that be? The one piece of advice that if I was to go back and say to myself when I was starting out in business or for anyone listening is the power of personal investment and development. You cannot underestimate it. And I struggled for three-ish years trying to find the answers on my own. And I got myself into such a whirlwind and a pickle and I lost time because time is our biggest asset when we come to business. And if there is someone out there that has made the money, walked the walk and done it, and that can show you how to, don't put your money behind big marketing and advertising schemes. Put your money into personal development. because the power of cultivating a growth mindset in your business can shave three to four years off it. And it is so important if you think, look, I have a goal, I want to reach 100,000 in my first year or 250. Look at how you can do that with someone that's done it and look at how they can show you the way forward um because you will make your money a lot quicker. And don't be afraid to invest. em That's the big thing. You will be asking yourself the same questions six months down the line if you stay stuck. And I've seen it because I've done it. You will say, I'll get to the 1st of January and I'll change. Nothing does. You get to July and you stay in the same place. So really turn the dial up for that curiosity in developing yourself and your business, but also don't be afraid to go out and get what you want. I think a lot of fear holds us back. And the last thing is please do not see fail or failure as a negative word. I'm afraid to fail. I'm afraid of failure. Fail is the first attempt in learning. And actually to become a successful business, I'm really sorry to say this, but you have to learn to fail because you'll know not to do it the next time. So it's actually really positive. And to look at the way you talk to yourself em and start embracing positive self-narrative. Beautiful. I absolutely love that. And also it's important to say, because I think this would inspire so many people, with all the success that you've also had, you are also a mum as well. To very young children. yes, a two year old and a seven year old. I have two very energetic boys and it just comes down to again, structure, understanding, knowing where I need to be and running a really tight ship. And I say to women, if I can do it, you can do it too. And I know how... em to do it well in the sense that I've lost everything. We've lost companies and we've started from scratch again, but equally I've been at the very top of the ladder and now I've found a place where I'm very content and happy in the middle of the ladder with two beautiful children and a husband em and three amazing businesses. Yeah, good for you. We need more women like you in this in this world, not alone this industry, Lisa, because I think you're a fantastic inspiration to so many people. And for all those who listening to this podcast, you know, if you do want to learn about interior design um and staging and building a fantastic business, doesn't matter what the business is, then do reach out to Lisa because genuinely, when I was sat, ah I think I said this to you, Lisa, you know, I've sat with many, many people recently and I was just leaning in the whole time and you were speaking literally leaning in because I was, I was just writing everything you were saying and you made me think differently. You made me feel differently and I just really respected and I loved the way that you did that. So everyone should definitely reach out to you, whether it's business, whether it's soul mission, whether it's interior design staging, you're of course part of the girls and property community, which I love having you in there of course. And you are officially stuck with me now. because you are one of the partners of Girls and Profity and I could not be prouder to say that out loud. So Lisa, where is the best place for people to find you and to reach out to you? So I think the best place at the moment is our Instagram, which is design underscore boss underscore diary. um We do have a Facebook as well, but we're mainly a lot more active over on Instagram. Our website is going to be launching this autumn. But if you wanna come say hi, you wanna come ask questions, you want to come follow, meet me and the wonderful women in there, as well as I'm gonna be over in your community, then yeah, head over to Instagram and find me over there. Amazing and of course, I'm gonna put all of Lisa's notes, Lisa's details in the show notes as well and they're always gonna be there as one of the main sponsors so don't go in there and you can find all that if you'd like to connect with Lisa and then just a quick reminder from me we of course have the Girls and Property Winter Party coming up on Saturday the 15th of November. I have been absolutely useless in promoting this so be ready for being bombarded with advertising for the Winter Party. I think we can by the way. Yeah. Yeah. it's so good. You haven't been to one of my parties yet, Lisa. If there's one thing I can do, I throw a good party. I feed people and I throw a good party. But we're expecting, reckon, to have about 60 to 70 women. It is for the community, so the community members all go for free to the party. But for anyone who has kind of been curious about girls and property, wanting to kind of dip your toe in, you're not quite sure, this is for you. The ticket is only £49 to cover your cost to be there, but it's going to be amazing. There's going to be sparkles, food, fun, women together from all different walks of it. And if you're around the UK, the location is going to be in Birmingham. So hopefully you can make it to Birmingham. Saturday, the 15th of November. It's going to start around sort of 6.30, seven o'clock. And we're just gonna have a good time and it's just going to be women. There are no men I run a female property network. I believe if you run a female property network, you should just have women at your events So that's exactly what I'm gonna be doing and just running it for the women in this industry So I can't wait and I can't wait to see you there Lisa and just celebrate and have all the cocktails with you Yeah, and as always guys if you want to reach out I'm also on Instagram Athena Dobson underscore official and girls and property on Instagram and go and check out all the bits and pieces um But Lisa, I'd love to leave you with the parting words for all the listeners today So what sort of last bit or piece of advice would you love to give today? believe in yourself, never doubt yourself, dream big and just go and get what you want. Yeah, I love that. And you know, you had that as a hashtag at your event, which was dream big. And ever since then, that has been stuck in my mind. I think, Athena, dream big, because why not? dream big why not why not you're welcome Lisa, thank you so much for coming on today. I've absolutely adored it. I love your energy. Even through the screen, I can feel your energy. I know I love it. And I'll see you literally I will see you on Saturday the 15th of November for a great dance. um Or we're gonna wait this ladies for our dinner at the Ivy Asia before that. we're going to do it. Let's dream big and make it happen. We're just gonna sit there with like our cocktails, be like, right, who's coming? What you gonna put out there to the world? All right, Lisa, have a fantastic day. And to all the listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. As always, I appreciate you. If you're a new listener today, what a fantastic episode to listen in on. And I look forward to seeing you all next week. Have a great week, ladies. Speak to you soon. Take care, bye.