Deal Sourcing Made Simple with Shelly Yates

This week I am sitting down with the brilliant Shelly Yates to open up the world of deal sourcing in a really honest and grounded way.

A lot of women look at deal sourcing as their first step into property because it feels fast paced and cash flowing. But there is a side to it that people do not always see, and Shelly talks openly about what it is actually like, the strengths that really matter, and the parts that can feel challenging too.

She shares her journey into property, what day to day sourcing looks like, and why understanding your own strengths can make such a difference. We also chat about the realities of being an entrepreneur, looking after yourself, and the comfort that comes from having people around you who get it.

Shelly also talks about The Vault, her platform that helps make sourcing clearer and easier for both investors and sources. And if you are feeling drawn to deal sourcing or you want support getting started after listening to this episode, just click the link below to gain access under the Girls in Property affiliation  👇 

thesourcingvault.co.uk/vlt_membership?am_id=athena7394

It is a warm and honest chat and I know you will take so much from it.

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the girls in property podcast. So if you are tuning in today, I have no doubt that you are either interested in becoming a deal sourcer, potentially you're already a deal sourcer and really thinking about the pros, the cons, the whys, the what's and really thinking is this actually something I want to get involved with or even how can I take my deal sourcing business to the next level? And I have no doubt that you have seen the person I'm going to be speaking with this about today and thinking, yes, Athena, great guest, can't wait for this conversation. So this is actually returning guests to the podcast, having a slightly different conversation today, but also having the most amazing time with it because I love, love, love speaking to this individual. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce once again, Shelly Yates. Hey Shelly. I'm good, welcome back. Thank you. I love it. I love it. And you know what's really lovely is today we're actually going to be having a different conversation because of course the last time you came on, we were talking about social housing and we were sort of going down down that route, which was an amazing episode. had such a huge download rate as well because so many people are really interested in social housing and learning from the right people. But today we're going to take a slightly different spin, aren't we, with deal sourcing. Yes, I'm really excited about this because it's been in the making, it's kind of been in the background sort of, you know, when you've got this kind of idea, it's been in the background for probably about 18 months, but really in the last four or five months, we've actually brought it to reality. So yeah, if you're a deal sourcer, or you're thinking about getting into that world, then yeah, you're gonna really enjoy this. I love it. Isn't it really funny where I think what happens is I think people sort of see the idea actually come to life through on social media or magazines or when it's promoted, but it's really hard for people to actually understand that, like you just said, the idea started 18 months ago. Not yesterday, 18 months ago. And I think that's such an important thing to say because I don't know about you, Shelley, but I'm finding at the moment that... I see a lot of people wanting to rush quite a lot of things and thinking, here's my idea, I want to launch it next week. Here's my idea, why hasn't it happened yet? And it's like, well, actually this took 18 months. Yeah, and it's, I'm not gonna lie, it's something that I struggle with as well, because when I decide that I wanna do something, I want it to go straight away, like yesterday, and I also want it to be perfect. And I think I've really learned actually through this process that, you know, obviously there's elements, you have to bring together the first version, but then there's a time where you just have to press go as well. So it's really hard trying to manage that. How long do I actually plan on a business? And how long do I then wait until I execute it, even if it's not perfect. And I did have that, I did struggle with that a little bit, but I feel like we're well into like version one now. So that's really cool. Phase one, phase one. you know what's going to happen is after phase one, you're going to learn so much about um customer use, feedback, everything like that. So it's almost like in beta launch. And then you're then going to go right through to then phase two, and it's just going to expand and grow. And I can't wait to see it. And I'm going to be, we're going to be talking more about what this actually is in the podcast, but super exciting. So Shelley, do me a favor. Obviously in the previous episode, you know, we did an introduction to you. the girls got to know you a little bit, but at the same time, it has been quite a long time since you've been on this podcast. So could I ask you to do like a brief intro about you yourself? Cause I think that's an important way for this podcast to start, but also to let everyone know like your journey into deal sourcing and your journey in sales and kind of what made you then want to even create volt or wanting to help women get into this industry through deal sourcing. Yeah, so I've been in property about five or six years now. So I had a, like you say, I was in sales. So I did a lot of online sales, social media sales before it was cool, I guess, six or seven years ago. And I learned a lot from that, but I always wanted to get involved in property. I wanted to make money from property. Like a lot of people who'd be listening to this, I wanted to use property as a way to build like generational wealth and like hold property. So that was really interesting to me. So I started off with em buying buy-to-lets using the money from our old sales business, okay. But I quickly realized that, you know, especially now in this kind of market that you can't just buy buy-to-let and be financially free. um Especially, you know, I see all the time people, the goal is to leave their job and go in property full time. But the reality is that you usually need, yes, that sort of... um that buy and hold or that flip or whatever you're doing to like generate larger sums of cash later down the line. But you also need that cashflow business as well. Whether that's through investors or through like an actual active business. And very quickly I came, I stumbled upon deal sourcing essentially, which is sales. So if you are in a sales environment or you know you're good at communication, you're good at talking to people, Deal sourcing is a great way to go because not only does em it give you cash flow, but it also helps you learn the market. You know, what deals are out there, what stocks moving right now helps you connect with investors, analyze what a good deal is for yourself when you come to actually build a portfolio. And I just think it just marries really nicely with that whole wealth generation and buying property. So straight away, I realized this was what people who are making a lot of money in property were doing. they were building a cash flow business alongside buying property as well. And with me being in sales, I felt like deal sourcing was pretty much the way to go. Some people go into like service uh management, that kind of thing. That's not my bag. So I couldn't manage people's Airbnbs or anything like that. I'm not organized like that, but I am good at sales. I think it's all about, if you're watching, listening to this and you're thinking, okay, maybe I should do a cash flow business in property. Think about what your skillset is first. If it is sales, if it is talking to people, building that sort of rapport and stuff, then deal sourcing, yes. But yeah, that's kind of how I fell into that. em But because I was in sales, I'd always had the product there. em So I'd had, I used to sell like hair products, beauty, all that kind of stuff. So I had the product already. And what I found really, not strange, but really difficult inside of deal sourcing was that as the sourcer, you have to find the product. First, so you have to go out there, you have to find the product, you have to do all the negotiation, like with the supplier, which is the vendor, obviously. So you have to do all of that. And then you're only really at stage one, like you haven't got a buyer for it. It's a long, long process. And if you're already sourcing, you'll know that if you've sourced a deal from start to finish, it's likely been an absolute nightmare. And borrow a few experiences. And I kind of... m As going through this process, I thought, well, what about if we already had the product there? What about if, you know, people who are great at sales and great at building that investor database already had the product so that they could start 50 % in rather than at zero, having to go out there, doing their direct to vendor and all that kind of stuff. I just feel like that process in deal sourcing is extremely long winded. And that is why people quit deal sourcing because they go on the course. They're like, this is amazing. I can make five to sometimes 10 grand a deal. Like how amazing is that? I can quit my job. Yes, but it's actually a process that's over complicated and super tricky, especially for a newbie that building up your list. And so kind of set out on a mission to simplify that process essentially. it was a very long answer. No, it's not a long answer. It's the perfect answer and I love that and I just want to touch on some things that you just said there Shelly so number one Thank you for saying this because I feel like I am drumming this home nearly every single day at the moment which is when you got to think about property and property as a business and I keep saying this so many people don't see property as a business and I say to them you need to have cash flow generating and you need to have wealth you need to have cash flow and wealth So when people are like... I want to get into flips but I want flips to then replace my income. I'm like but that's lump sums. That's not recurring revenue. Like what's your plan? How are you going to do this? How are you then going to have knowing that that pipeline is going to be there or what's the business that's going to almost like fuel the flames and you've just said it perfectly you need to have that constant generation of cash flow that needs to come in in order to do this and this was actually funny enough something that I was thinking about when I was starting out and we'll come onto that, tell you some stories of my own deal sourcing experience. But I was thinking this, I was like how can I actually generate cash? And you said something perfect which is when you're starting out in property, start with what your skill sets are, start with your resources. So for... I tell you what, I see quite a lot of shelling and I don't know if you see this and I'd love to get your opinion on it. I sometimes meet people who are extremely shy and extremely reserved and within themselves and I say to them, what are you looking to do within property? What ideas have you got? Talk to me. And they're like, think I'd really like to get into deal sourcing. And I'm like, okay, talk to me about that. You know, what's your thoughts about it? How are you gonna do this? And then they say, I'm gonna find a deal, find an investor. And then they come back to me and they go, no I figured out it actually wasn't for me and like that's because maybe your personality for example just doesn't feel that way but maybe management is something that could be really great for you so do you ever get that do you ever look at people and think this is for you this isn't for you or or not that we should say what is and what isn't but personality matching as it were Yeah, for sure. I think I would never sugarcoat sourcing and like even, I just find that a lot of people want something for nothing as well. They think deal sourcing is the easy route and they're like just waiting for investors to fall at their feet. It's not going to happen. It is an extremely hard industry. And I think that is why a lot of people fail. And that's what I was kind of playing with the idea of that. Like, why is this so complicated and why are people quitting? It's because it is really too hard. There is too many moving parts to it. But I think, yeah, it's definitely really important that you do a little bit of exploring. That's exactly what I did when I started out in property. I knew obviously you could buy property and hold it and all that kind of stuff. I didn't know how much was available to me, but I was definitely out there looking for something that I knew I would really enjoy. And straight away, I knew deal sourcing. You know when you look at something and you go, I could do that. I could do that so easily. I could get my sleep. Yeah. kind of how I felt towards deal sourcing, whereas something like managing anything, no. But like getting deals over the line, yes. Getting on phone calls, yes. Like that kind of lit me up when I saw it. just explore, I would say, what kind of things are you drawn to? Are you a super organized person? And you will figure out what it is that you feel like you're more drawn to. And I definitely felt like that was deal sourcing. And I felt like there was something that I could. do that to make it better. Yeah, and that's what's so important. You saw a gap in the market and a way to actually help people and to make this industry better. And I think that's what gives you purpose and soul is actually thinking to yourself, what has been a struggle for me? What has, what have you seen other people struggle with and what can you do to change that? And I really, I really, well, I respect you so much anyway, Shelley, but I respect you even more for really doing that. I'm really taking that. quite frankly, risk in creating this because it takes money, it takes time, it takes self belief and it's a difficult thing to do. So I love that and I love the fact that you have built this. So I wanna dive into this so much more with you and really speak about it but just before we do that, you know how the podcast works, you've been on it before. um I wanna know, what are you celebrating at the moment, Shelley? I'm celebrating just a brand new chapter because I feel like things have been extremely up and down. Like I have built six figure businesses and lost them overnight, like multiple times. And I'm celebrating getting back up, just in myself off and going again and having the courage to do that because that is probably one of the hardest things that you will ever do in business. em And I think that happiness and celebration can feel like so fleeting. that you'll have a win and you'll be up here. But straight away as entrepreneurs we'll be like, now I need to do this. I need to move on to this. So I really love that you do this actually. What are we celebrating? And I think picking myself back up, dusting myself off, getting a fresh idea and just going again because we will have to do that as entrepreneurs a lot. Yeah. been through a lot recently, like a lot a lot, and I think that, you know that saying, and I know it sounds really cliche, but I think in your case, I think it really does mean something, which is whatever doesn't kill you genuinely makes you stronger. And obviously, you know, I've known you for a couple of years now, and I've almost seen you, you know, in different chapters of this, and I can really sense from you this almost, I'll tell you what I sense in you, Shelley, when I speak to you now, I sense this self-confidence that maybe wasn't actually there before. Mm-hmm. think now I can sense that you're a lot more grounded and you're a lot more assured. Actually, I know, you know, it's almost like you're saying to yourself, actually, I know who I am. I'm a good person. And actually I know what it is that I can do. And I can really feel that kind of energy from you. I think it's great. I think it's lovely to see. thank you. I really appreciate that. And you know what I think it's been? I don't think I've had, like you say, the confidence before. I've always kind of done things as part of other people's businesses. So I've always got on board, but I don't think I've ever had the confidence to actually start a company or a movement like this. I think it's taken all of those experience to lead me to a point where I'm like, I'm ready to do it myself now, even if I haven't got everything figured out. think before I always held me back because a lot of the organization and the moving parts of a business really scare me. So I'd rather just be the sales girl or I'd rather just take over one part of it. And um I didn't feel ready to like move into that next part. I'm, you know, I'm nearly 34, I'm 34 next month. So I've done in the last 10 years, lot of learning who to trust, learning, you know, all of that stuff that it's a really, really hard pill to swallow sometimes. um And realizing that actually, know what, Shelley, you can actually do this better than what other people have shown you how to do it. Like now is the time, it's kind of now or never. And I'm so proud that we've done that. And I've done that the last six months. It's been scary because actually I almost gave up in a sense that I thought, I can't do this. I can't put myself out there again. And I thought, well, what is the other option? You just shrink. I wasn't willing to do that and I love this. I love business, I love property. And I thought, if I'm gonna do it, it's gonna be now. So yeah, I'm just so happy that we've got to this point now and it's moving and I feel like I'm doing something that is gonna be huge and it's gonna help so many people. Yeah, I love that. That's great advice. And just out of curiosity with that, because I think this is an important thing to say and to celebrate. And obviously, I want to try and help as many people as I can who listen to this podcast. You know, I'm seeing lots of things happening in the industry at the moment, like Shelley, for God's sakes. Like we know that this industry has good and bad people. We know that. That is the industry. And do know what? I think there's actually a lot of other industries. I talk about the property industry being like this quite a lot. But then I think about the fashion industry. And then I think about the... uh fitness industry for goodness sakes and then I think about all these other industries I'm like show me an industry that does not have shades of grey let's call it let's call it shades of grey right and so this We can try and avoid it at all costs, but sometimes we put our faith in people that maybe we shouldn't have put our faith in or we've tried certain ways it didn't work. It's okay for that to happen. And I think what's important for us to just say to the listeners is like, and I'd love to get your take on this, is it's not always going to be the easiest ride. It's not always going to be plain sailing. Otherwise, literally everyone would do it. And that's why so many people don't take that risk. But when it does happen to you, What advice would you give? Because like Shelly, you know I've had my own situations this year for example, where people have tried to rip me down and tear me down and I nearly quit and I've said this openly, I nearly literally quit Girls and Property this year because I believed the stuff that was being said about me which is bizarre because obviously I know it's not true but they convince you that it's true. So what would you give advice for anyone else feeling that way right now? You know what, I actually took a couple of months off, because I didn't want to start something from a place of feeling like shit. So, and I didn't want to do anything that feels forced or like, what's the word, disingenuous. Like I was forcing myself to show up and I just felt like, actually at the moment I feel fragile and I don't want all of this noise. It's really not me and well, no one likes it, do they? But I just kind of felt like I'm taking a couple of months off. I'm taking a couple of months off, I'm recalibrating, I'm spending some time with my children, I'm gonna go away this summer and I'm gonna come back stronger and I don't need to tell anyone, I don't need to keep, because someone said to me like, you know, just keep going, just keep showing up online. I didn't want to, I didn't wanna show up online. I wanted to have time to myself and that's also okay. Nothing's gonna blow up in a month or two months. Your life isn't gonna, it's not gonna drastically change anything in business. Sometimes you just need to take a little bit of time. And that's exactly what I did. I didn't let anyone force me into just get, even though, like I just said, I got back up and started again, which I did, but I needed to look after myself first. And that was the most important thing for me at that time. And then now I feel like a completely different person. sort of nine months down the line from what I felt in January. I nearly posted about it actually the other day, but I was like, I look so awful on the picture. My whole face was like puffy. was awful. But yeah, I feel like a totally different person. In that moment, you feel like you never will feel like that again, but you do. You just, you've got to work on yourself first. So nothing's gonna, you're not gonna be able to create anything in business if you don't do that. But I feel confident now and I feel so much better genuinely. And I'm so glad I took that time out. Amazing, you chose you at the end of the day, which is fab and I love that. yeah, I think we just need to look after ourselves first and foremost because then the business will be better for it as well. And I think that that's something that I've had to learn in my own journey that I used to prioritize the business first, but actually that was never going to work ever. because if I wasn't looking after me and I was the business, the business was never gonna succeed as it were. yeah. And then actually uh my celebration is actually sort of similar but different in a way. So I've literally just completed my very first call for my Girls and Property Accelerator program. yeah, so I created an accelerator program for Girls and Property. uh I started off thinking that I wanted 15 women to join this program, but then actually after a lot of conversations and a lot of looking within myself, I realised that 15 was too many and that actually the best way to actually serve the women in the right way was to have 10 and to help 10 women as opposed to trying to help 15. So I cut it down to 10 and do you know what, I left it open to the universe. I was like, universe, bring me the 10 women and let's see who these 10 women are. And if I'm completely honest with you, when I first put the announcement out, it was a lot slower than I thought it would be. And I think, I obviously had self doubts and I thought, my God, I know this program's amazing. I know what I've made. I know how many people I can help. And I had that self doubt. I stopped eating. I stopped sleeping, I went like, spiraled, I just went back to where I used to be and I was like, oh dear, I recognise this, this is not healthy, what are doing? And I was able to pull myself back out of it and then I said to myself, Athena, why did you create the accelerator programme? Genuinely, what message are you trying to give the girls to join this? Why did you make it? And so I changed the marketing to start explaining. why I feel the program is so important and literally boom boom boom boom boom you know literally just there they were the girls came forward and went Athena I'm your girl literally and I had these calls and the calls just connected and literally the most incredible 10 women then came together the other night on this call and I almost got emotional because I literally was looking at them going this this this is what it's meant to be This is it. This is what I wanted. This is what I dreamt of. And the call was incredible. And I tell you the biggest thing I learned on that call was, I learned that I have different women on that call who all have a different story and identity and actually a strategy that they want to do, but they all have a common purpose and they all have a common drive that brings them all together. And that is to create. financial freedom for them and their families and to empower them as women and So actually it wasn't actually that I had ten different women on this call I had ten similar women on this call and it was so beautiful and I've got one property stager I've got a couple of cash flowing girls and I've got a couple of property developers as it well Well, I say a couple a few of each because ten of us But then it enabled me to then really think about this and what I'm doing is I'm I'm basically combining strategy calls with then mindset calls, which are being led by my very, very good friend, Akhtar Khan. And his call is happening next week. uh And I've obviously done podcasts with Akhtar and he has just like helped me immensely in my own personal development. He's literally helped me change my life. And I knew that I needed to share him with the world and to help other women. And so we literally came together and what we always talk about, and the first call we talked about is, what is your why? What's your resources? What are your skillsets? What's your story? And it's been amazing how the girls have been like, I've never thought in this way. I've always just thought I've needed to think about strategy and what I needed to do. But actually you're right. Is that the best thing for me? And I'm like, exactly. You came with an idea, but you might leave with something different. And I think that that's what's lacking in the industry. Like what you saw as a gap in the market for me was a gap that I saw in the market to be like, well, hold on. Why are we not starting with us first? Why are we not starting with who we are first? And that was something I never did when I started. I just went straight in with here's two and a half grand for a deal sourcing course. Here's two and a half grand for a no money down course. Here's two and a half grand for a commercial conversion course, because I didn't have a goddamn clue who I was or what it is I was trying to achieve. And I spent a lot of money figuring that out. So yeah. so interesting that you say that and well done by the way, that's incredible what you've built there. em Yay! So, so good. And the two things actually, the first thing about em looking deeper into you and actually getting to know yourself, I have been the same with the vault. So even though it's strategy, someone that I've worked with for the past couple of years, she's absolutely incredible. I've brought her in. to help people connect better with themselves, talking about frequency. I mean, she talks about it way better than me. I'm not like qualified to talk about it, but she is and she does so, so well. And we've brought that into the vault as well so that people actually understand themselves better because that's so important when you move into a business. If you don't, then you will learn the hard way, you know? em And then also what you said em about having a slow start m to this and the idea. and managing to stick with it because I also think that's something that when you're launching something or starting something, it's really difficult to shout from the rooftops when you don't get the result in the first instance. I've had it before and I had it at the start of the vault. And I kind of just assumed that people would just join and I didn't get as much traction as I thought I would in the beginning. And that was quite deflating. It's like carrying, so deflating, isn't it? And I feel like you think... You think you have to, you think you have to just show the good, you have to carry on as if, my God, this is going amazing, this is going amazing, because you don't want to put anyone off. Oh, sorry. I completely agree with you. And it's really, really difficult when you've got stuff like that and you do feel really deflated and you think to yourself, and I'll tell you why you feel deflated, Shane, don't know this happened to you. It's because I literally was like, my God, like I know what I've built. I know the purpose behind it and why can't others see it in this way? I think that's the bit that actually is the deflating bit, but the right people come. They always do. The right people will choose you. Yeah, always. But yeah, that's something, I saw, saw, know who it was that spoke about it now, but someone was speaking about that. They were saying that something completely flopped. And it was so nice to just see that, because things flopping all the time, left, and center. Even if it's just a little offer. Yeah, just a little offer, or something that you were like, this is an absolute, 100%, this is a winner. And then it's like tumbleweed, like, oh gosh. I've tried so many things that have failed. And then the ones that I thought, yeah, let's go for it. They did so much better, like a random post or a random story. It's crazy. And we're always learning, you know, we're always learning by testing out all these little things. But maybe it was because as well, I took that time off social media, like nobody owes me anything. Do know what I mean? Nobody owes me this engagement or, you know, I've disappeared for God knows how long and I've just come back with something else and I expect people to just come and buy from me or join me. Like, it's just not the case, it? You've got to your stripes at end of the day. you do. But you know what? I'm also here for championing ourselves because if we don't champion ourselves, no one else will. So I'm also happy to do that. but, Shelley talk, talk to me then about, about this notion. So I get a lot of women who come to me and direct message me on a daily basis. And obviously I know that you're going to have exactly the same, which is they say, um, Athena, I'm in a full time nine to five job. I've been looking at some property. I really like the idea of getting into property. think deal sourcing is the way to go because it's cash flowing and there isn't a lot of upfront costs. What advice would you give for somebody starting out and if deal sourcing is the right way to go? So what would your advice be for a starter wanting to get into property? Yeah, with the vault, ours is for compliant deal sources. You have to be compliant as a deal source to start off. So you have to kind of go through that process, which is obviously cost. So the first thing is what we spoke about earlier, which is making sure you feel like this is the right step forward for you. If you feel like you are great at... Posting on social, a lot of it's posted on social media, it's calling people, it's phone etiquette, it's if you have those communication skills. And if someone comes to me saying, I've been in sales, I've done this, I've done that, I'm used to this, I'm on the phone all the time, I would turn around and say, yeah, I feel like it probably would be a good fit for you. So I think just initially establishing whether or not you feel like that is the right way forward to make it worth you going to get that compliance and everything done. em that would be the first thing. em But the biggest part of it, I think, is the learning phase. When you learn about deal sourcing, you go on that course. It's heavy. It's a lot because there's a lot of information overload. And like I say, there's a big process involved when it comes to even securing a property. And this is also one thing that I wanted to speak about. was something that drove me around the absolute bend when I started in deal sourcing. And it was just co-sourcing with idiots, people who don't... Yeah, can I say that? Just people who haven't got a clue. Yeah, haven't got a clue. You you don't know if you can trust them. Everyone's thrown around NDAs that don't even hold any weight. They're not even legally binding. Do know what I mean? And it's like, feel like it a lot of it gets very, very messy. em So the whole reason for the vault was to get rid of all of that mess. So when you start out and you're super overwhelmed, Okay, I need some property now. I've got compliant, I've done all my training, got my backpack on, I'm ready to go. What now? Like I need to, what do I do? I need to get properties and rather than having to go out there and co-source and find people that you're not sure if you can trust, et cetera, et cetera, what's a more simplified way that I can do it? Obviously you can go out there and source yourself. I get vendors come through on Instagram now just sort of saying, looking to sell my property, et cetera, et cetera. But it's that starting point where you're gonna start. And I feel like the vault gives you that starting platform to just grow and scale once you've got yourself compliant basically. em But yeah, I think it's a big, I don't think anyone should get into deal sourcing. I think if you have the time, if you have the personality, if you're willing to just keep going, deal sourcing is great. Yeah, if you're a salesperson and you love that communication, you don't care about getting on the phone. and you're listening to this thinking, yeah, I could smash that, then yeah, you probably could. Okay, perfect. So let me just touch on something you just said there, which was about these NDAs, which are non-disclosure agreements. So I'm going to talk to you about something that happened to me at the very beginning of my property journey, where I thought to myself, alongside doing my buy-to-lets and things, I sort of dabbled into deal sourcing. And I tell you what, it was really, really tricky, really tricky. And I worked in sales, I was a sales coach for seven years. But I tell you the hardest bit, and you talk about the mess, the mess, and I agree with you, it's so messy. So... Basically there was well two things number one is it's really understanding. Let's say that the vault didn't exist Let's pretend vault didn't exist just for a moment and we talk about the reality of deal sourcing back when I was doing it obviously um No, correct me if I'm wrong in this Shelly, because I don't, you know way more than I do, is majority of the time the way that the best deals work when you're sourcing them is mainly through direct to vendor as opposed to through an agent. Is that right? Yeah, you know what, it depends. You can get good deals through agents, but like off market opportunities, direct to vendor, that's what most people would, know, like direct to vendor letters, that kind of stuff. Yes, m advertising, ads, that kind of thing. Yeah. So I went through an agent and I found this incredible opportunity in Bournemouth that I then basically went and spoke to somebody about. ah Now, obviously, you've got to be really careful about the amount of information that you give to this person, so you give them just enough but not too much. Anyway, this property had been in the market for ages, like wasn't flying off, was stagnant for a long, long time. And then I found an investor who would be open to taking this on, send them a non-disclosure agreement that said, this is the property, these are the details, but you've got to sign this first. Anyway, go through it, all was going well. This particular investor, like a couple of days later, totally starts ghosting me. Can't get hold of them, totally ghost me. Speak to the agent and then the agent goes to me, the property's now gone. And I was like, is it now? And they're like, yeah, property's now gone. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, can you disclose for me who actually took that property from you? Was it the person that I effectively was speaking about with this? And they're we can't disclose that information. And so the investor effectively worked out who the agent was, worked out what the property was and effectively cut me out. And the non-disclosure agreement meant nothing, like nothing, not even worth what it was written on. And again, that's a really tough thing to go through, really tough thing because this happens all the time. Even if you had like a vendor, for example, and just something didn't quite go to plan. mean, has that ever happened to you before? Yeah, mean, things fall out of bed all the time, you know, for one reason or another. Obviously, you can make things a little bit more secure by getting contracts with vendors. You can get an IA in place so that you are solely m the person selling that property on. But from an agent perspective, feel like, it's a difficult one because it's more of a relationships game. Obviously, that agent now has broken that relationship and that trust with you. you could have come and found them 10 investors for their deals. So I think what a lot of deal sources have and a lot of really well established deal sources have is estate agents that they've got really great relationships with in their back pocket. And they're not going to turn around and do them over as such because they know how many investors they're going to bring to them. But what's really difficult is when you're starting out and you don't have that, so you don't have those agents in your back pocket necessarily. We don't really work with agents that much because we source off market. So we source direct to vendor and we work with big businesses as well who spend like millions on marketing, on online marketing basically, ads, that kind of thing. Because as a sole sourcer, again, you haven't a lot of the time got the upfront cash to be spending. uh Some of the companies that we work with, they spend hundreds of thousands on ads, okay. And then... it's crazy. It's crazy what people spend on ads. Because it's volume at the end of the day on off market. If you're sending out 10 direct to vendor letters a week, you know, to get four leads, to get one view in, to get zero, zero agreement with a vendor, think how much time and effort you're wasting. This is the thing. This is the exact thing. It's time. Time is money at the end of the day. And this is, you know, you will spend all of this time doing the front end stuff and never even get to the middle of the deal. and it's so frustrating. yeah, we essentially work with, em we work with big cash by businesses, we work with traders, we obviously source ourselves, the sources inside the vault, they can also go and source off market and share their deals on the platform. Just simplifying everything, but this is it. There's so many complexities, there's so many people screwing one another over and you can't really trust anyone in business, which is so sad because... That's just the way it is. I've learned this the hard way. You actually can't trust anybody. Isn't that fair? the same time you can trust yourself. You can trust yourself and you can know that when you go to put your trust in somebody, what you're doing, and this is important to say, because I want to make sure we encourage people at the same time, Shelley, right? And what's important to say is, is each time you do that, and even if it doesn't quite go to plan, you still go forward 1%. 100 % yeah. you still learn something from it. My good friend Lucinda taught me something which she said to me, if you're not winning, you're learning. And each time you learn, you move forward again and again. So I don't want people to be put off from trusting people or to think, oh, I can't trust anyone, therefore I'm not going to. It's this case of go for it, put your faith in that person. and then learn from it each time you do it. I mean, I've made my own mistakes, of course I have, but I've also worked with some incredible people even after I got burnt. I didn't stop when I got burnt, I kept going and I think that's important as well. Yeah, and I think you establish that as you go on. You learn who you build great relationships with. And yeah, sorry, I probably sound like a Debbie downer then. Trust no one. But it's also the reality of what people are out for themselves. Everyone's out for themselves, aren't they, at the end of the day, at its core. It would be a lie to say that people weren't. But at the same time, there is great people out there who wanna help you and understand everything's like a transaction. So it's like, how can I help you and you help me? And we have a great relationship within this, but there's also people out there who just want to take, or they just want to get that extra 500 quid. And that can sting sometimes. em So yeah, don't not trust anyone, but also don't trust anyone. think it's just about knowing your gut and trusting your gut. That would be the advice I would give. If you've got a good feeling in your gut and it feels right, go for it. If you've got reservations, maybe just seek advice and maybe just speak to other people. I think that's it. And of course, surround yourselves in great communities where you can learn from one another as well and get the expertise and advice from others. Definitely. Shelley, I've just got two more questions for you. My first one is, is we talk about investors. Now I'm actually going to do a whole other episode about this and raising, because everybody asks me about investors and raising finance and everything like that. It's like the number one hot question. If we were playing like family fortunes and they were like, Athena, what's your number one question? Investors is like ding ding, special prize award type thing. So talk to me, Shelley, right? Because you've of course raised private finance and obviously when you're doing deal sourcing, you've got to marry up a deal and you've got to marry up an investor. So, a newbie comes along or a person wanting to get into the industry, how the hell do we find our investors? So I am a big fan of LinkedIn, I must admit. Can you still see me? Have I frozen? I'm there. oh I thought I frozen there. Yeah, so I'm a big fan of LinkedIn. Well, I've always been on most social media platforms, but I teach the guys within the vault as well to first of all, sort out their profile. Who am I? What do I do? Why do I do it? Introduction video. Let's just set the scene before you do anything because what I like to do is direct message campaigns. but you've got to have the shop window there first. So set up your profile professionally, who it is, what you do, who you help, em any kind of m expertise that you have up until now, if you don't have any, that's also absolutely fine, but you need to sort of have it there so people can see really easily and visibly, maybe on your featured photos on LinkedIn or your pinned post on Instagram, what it is that you do and how you help people. Once you have that established, I would start doing direct message campaigns. So I still do this now. I do it pretty much every single week. If you are starting a business, especially in something like deal sourcing, yes, content matters. Yes, you need to do your reels, et cetera, et cetera. But it's how many conversations, and I was actually speaking about this the other day. I was speaking about this the other day. It's how many conversations you can have, which is gonna take your business from here up here, right? If you're not having any conversations with anybody. your business isn't moving anywhere. So I do direct message campaigns on LinkedIn. You can do it on Instagram, can do it on Facebook, wherever it is that your sort of playground is, but I do prefer LinkedIn. And just asking, really not this long spiel of sales and this is who I am and this is what I do. Nobody wants to know. People wanna know what you can give to them, what you can do for them. So I do message campaigns and obviously you can search people's profession on LinkedIn, which is really handy. People wanna do business on there, which is why I actually prefer it. property investor, property developer, anything that surrounds that kind of, know, people that would want deals from you and just start conversations. Hey, John, are you looking for stock right now? Where are you looking? Hey, are you looking for off-market stock right now? And I'm really simple and to the point, there is nothing special that I do, but I just start conversations. And if you're new, that's exactly what I would do. I would start as many conversations with people who are looking to buy property as physically possible. And I would do it on LinkedIn. Yeah. Great advice. Great, great advice. And what I would say is, cause I'm all for this. think conversations is definitely where the sales are. You know, people want to interact with real people a hundred percent. And let's face it, we can all see the ones that have been AI generated by bots. It's very, very obvious. So make sure that yours sounds human, of course, and don't use AI to write yours, write them genuinely from you and make them really personable as well. Maybe for example, I always do this where I look at their profile and if there's something that's really caught my eye that I've really liked, I've then actually written that so they know that I've personally written to them as opposed to just copied and pasted. And also don't be disheartened if you send out let's say 10 in your first week and nobody replies to you. Don't then think it doesn't work. Just keep going. And you're right, Shelley. I think what you've got to do is you've got to have a mix of both. You've got to make sure that your shop window is there. You've got to be creating good content. You know, for example... uh What why is your area of Gloucestershire or Sheffield or wherever you are? Why is that area great to invest so that when people are then reading and going this girl knows her stuff this girl knows her streets and you then send them a DM to go okay call to action are you looking for deals they marry the two together and then they go actually I really want to go and invest with Shelley this sounds all good and I think this is a great way to start and also I always talk about friends and family and actually having conversations with them to go Well, hold on a minute. Is there something that you need? And then going through all of that. And then it could even be that you're not not only deal sourcing, but you're then doing loan agreements and equity shares and all sorts of things. And so it becomes this like, you know, massive thing that that can then take off, but slow and steady, slow and steady. And as we always say, consistency, like I think that it's the most underrated thing in the entire world where people think you need to be smart. People think you need to have loads of money. You don't. You literally need to be consistent every single day. Every day. It's compound effect, isn't it? I I must have sent out 200 messages last week. I'm trying to raise finance for development at the moment. So I'm trying to raise like 65k. And I was like, what do I need to do? Okay, I'll put a video out there. I'll put a story out there. And then I'm literally going to message 150 people on LinkedIn. And it's not overthinking that process either. So many of won't reply to you. It's absolutely fine. It doesn't matter what happened. No one died. It's literally, that's it. It didn't fit for them, whatever. So you know when you just said you messaged 150 people? Because I can already hear the listeners in my ear because I get DMs from people all the time. I know what they're gonna say to me. They're gonna go, Shelly, where do you find 150 people on NincTin? What should I be searching for? Mm hmm. So keywords, property investor, anyone really a high network that you would consider to be a high net worth individual. So a lot of the time, and I guess we're talking more towards like raising finance for projects now, are we? I don't know. Yeah. You're thinking of professions that would be time poor and cash rich, potentially. So you'd be searching those into the search bar. And yeah. Well, my VA does it, to be fair. I'm going to be completely honest. He searches for me. And I do think even as a start, even when you're starting out, having a VA is actually a great thing just to do those like kind of little admin-y things, send out volume of messages, that kind of thing. But he will search for a certain profession or investor. I'm trying to think off the top of my head now. know, like planter or you know, an investor. yeah, cash rich time poor. Yeah. what you're looking for. then obviously that's the kind of, um that's how you're gonna approach some of your um advertising and stuff like that. That's what you're looking for. It's not necessarily that you're looking for people who buy property, it's people that invest in general. Yeah, so it's slightly different versus deal sourcing where they're actually actively looking to buy property. Whereas you might look for a slightly different individual when you're looking to raise finance, probably wouldn't even be in property. my investors, neither actually, one of them does uh have property, but they essentially were going traveling and they just wanted to put their money somewhere for a certain amount of time and get interest whilst they were away. They weren't bothered about buying. It wasn't their time to buy, if that makes sense. So it's about understanding. the needs and the wants of the investor in that particular time and if that fits as well. And then more recently we've done a JV with someone, a flip that we've just completed on and he had the cash but he didn't have the knowledge. So he didn't know what deal to go for. He didn't have project managed. He didn't know anything about refurb. So we used his funds and our expertise bought property near us and we're managing that whole process, the profit 50-50. So it's really important to sort of, if you're getting into a conversation with an investor, figuring out what is it that they want first before you go word vomiting and what you need from them is what's their situation right now? What are they investing in and what are they looking for? Because not everyone's gonna fit either. It's fine for you to turn people down as much as it is for other people to turn you down. em Yeah, feel like, sorry, I feel like I've gone off a massive tangent now, but. I've been doing this so much this year that I feel like I could sit and talk about raising finance for hours. No, this is great. This is great and I'll get you back on another podcast to talk about that. So and to be fair, might have been my it might have actually been my fault a little bit there because let's just take this back to deal sourcing then. So if we take it back to deal sourcing, let's say that a person has now found a great deal in leads and they're like, I have found an amazing deal in leads. I need to now forget about vault just for a second. I need to now find a person who wants to buy my deal from me. I'm complying, I've got a deal, I'm ready to go. How do they find the person to then sell the deal onto? You know what's a difficult one, isn't it? Cause it's like, what comes first, the chicken or the egg, the deal or the investor. oh Yeah. I think it would be, I would want to have a bit of an investor list bubbling before I went out there and sourced a deal. Cause this is, I think this is often the trap that we fall into. I would have started making content about my area, about my strategy as I was in the process of doing the course or whatever it is that I went on to become compliant. I would have started making content there. So I'll be learning, I'd be sharing what I've found out, what strategy I'm gonna be going with, et cetera, et cetera. I'd be building up a bit of a profile online. I'd be speaking to people. I'm gonna be getting deals in the next sort of couple of months or so. Do you wanna join my list? I'd start some kind of email list and I would start prepping my audience ready for when I had a deal because otherwise you'll get the deal and especially if you secured it for an agent or something, you made an offer, they've accepted that offer. Time is now of the essence and that's where you're gonna lose it because now you need to find the investor on the other side. So I would actually go the other way. I would actually start making content, building an investor list and building interest for when you get that deal. But I would probably, if you secured it for an agent, I would then probably look to Cosa. So I would look for people who have investors in leads. If I had no presence, no nothing, and I just as a one-off secure my first property. It's time, so it's how quickly can I get that deal placed and secured with an investor. So I would look to probably co-sourcing that instance. Yeah, I've said that to people before. I've been like, if you've actually got a deal and you don't have an investor pipeline, who do you know in that area who does have an investor pipeline that you can then share it with just for your first one to kind of understand the process and maybe just learn from it. And then for your next one, you can then ready to go. And I always say this is like, get a shopping list together, like speech your investors, find out what it is that they're looking for. And like you said, exactly as you said, with the CRM. And then from there, you can then literally go and go, well, you just asked me for a three bed in this area. By the train station. I've just found it for you and then they're ready to go as it were so I always have that conversation about the whole chicken and egg thing absolutely and then you know what, sorry, just really quickly, think that's why lot of m deal sources go wrong as well because they don't have, and I feel like the word niche is so boring now, isn't it? But they don't, it's almost like, oh, people are sending me deals and I've got deals and I've got investors. But it's either you source bespoke for an investor. So they tell you requirements, you go out there and source that deal specifically for them and their requirements. Or you say, This is me, I source in leads, I source HMO for example, this is who I am, you come to me and then you get that demographic coming in. So it's actually two different ways really that you can source. So we do off market. So we have off market all over the country and then we have some sources for example, who only source in the Northeast. So all of the Northeast deals for example, they will use the vault to send them the Northeast deals and they'll stay within their niche or their strategy or whatever. But our niche as it were as a platform is off market. So that is then what our sources do. They are like, we are off market sources. That's what we're here to do. So I think that's really important to establish that which you should do when you take a course or you go down that route road of getting yourself compliant. You make that decision on who you are and what you're gonna be known for in the source and industry. And that's always how you're gonna attract and stand. a little bit higher above the sea of nonsense. And people are get a little bit of credibility from it. So yeah, that's what I'd say. I totally agree with you. I think that if I was to ever become a deal saucer now, let's just say I decided it and I was like Shelley, that's it. I'm gonna become a deal saucer. I've worked in sales for seven years. Let's give it a crack. I've got some free time. If it were me, I'd become a specialist in Bournemouth. I know the streets. I know everything there. And I'm not sure on this one just yet, but I probably would choose between HMOs and vitalettes. That's probably what I would do. I know HMOs. I know all the roads. I know... The good HMOs, the bad ones. know majority of the landlords anyway. And so you still obviously rent rent in Bournemouth and then buy to let, you know, my world are quite easy to sort of calculate. And I've got all the, the, the, ways of doing that. And that would kind of be my niche because I think I'd feel confident in it. I think that's the key bit. What do you feel confident in selling? Because if you're confident in selling it, then you would know. I'm telling you now, if you made me call an investor to sell a a service accommodation unit in Sheffield, for example, wouldn't have a Scooby. Like wouldn't have a Scooby of like what I was doing, I'd wing the whole thing. But Bournemouth and streets and knowledge, that I've got. So I think that's great advice to kind of be like, what is your niche? What is the thing that you want to be known for and kind of doing it that way? So I love that. So, Shelley, I wanna then ask you about the vault and I wanna just sort of, you know, speak about it so that people can find it if they wanted to. And then I've got one final question for you that I think you're gonna really like as well, because it's a bit different. So yeah, the vault. the vault, yes. So we've been speaking about it all the way through our chat, but essentially I created the vault em to simplify deal sourcing and having done it myself and also having done sales, I actually wanted to create something that was called like one click sourcing. So as you would buy something when you go on TikTok or when you go on Instagram and you're like, my gosh, I love her top. Let me get the affiliate link for that. Or you do it yourself. You share your affiliate link out and someone asks you for it. People can buy you earn. Okay, this is what happens in 2025. And I wanted to transition this over to property. So number one, we wanted to have the deals ready there. So it's an online platform for both investors and also property sources. On the property source aside, it's for people who are ready to scale their property source in business. They want access to more deals. and they want to be able to amalgamate their sourcing business in one place. So essentially on the vault, let's say you're a sourcer, you've got your login, okay, you see a deal in Derby, you know, John Smith is going to like that deal. You have your own unique affiliate link, okay? So you can click on that deal in Derby, you can send it to John Smith, and then that investor is linked to you in your vault account for life. So you invite investors into the platform, you share deals with them, all over the country. So we have literally from Scotland all the way down to Land's End em deals off market through sources, our own sources. We work with cash buy companies, we source ourselves and we just have an array of property sourced off market on the platform. So it gives you access to property and to be able to sell property. em And then all of your investors are there. So you know your hot leads, whoever you've sent your link to that investor is made. their vault account, their investor vault account, and they're all there for you to follow up with, to do whatever you need to do, to send deals to. They get email marketing too from the vault as well, so they're constantly sort of getting em that warm connection from the vault and upcoming deals, that kind of thing. And we're actually building in more of a CRM to just track commission, which is actually already there at the moment, commission. We've also got an affiliate program where you can bring in members. And essentially it's really just to simplify that sourcing process. If you want more access to off-market deals, if you feel like you want to scale, but you're not really sure how to go to that next level because you're spending a lot of time on those fiddly bits inside your business, I'd say that's exactly who the vault is for. And that's how works. And you know what? Good for you for making it, Shelley. Like, that is not easy. It's not easy to do at all. It's literally tech. Like... Tech! pro. I can't take all of the credit because I am more, as we've already established on this call, more of like sales and marketing em relationships, that kind of stuff. And my business partner, Liam, who pretty much doesn't get any airtime blessing, but he doesn't want any. He does, he manages all of the tech side of things and the AI and all that kind of stuff. em He does a great job with that. So I don't have as much to do with that, but I kind of painted. we kind of created the vision and we knew what we wanted it look like. I just didn't know how to actually do it. So I can't take credit for any of that, but em it's definitely been a learning curve because I didn't think I would ever say that I owned a tech company. That is absolutely wild. Amazing go on girl good for you. And of course if anybody wants to look at the vault then I'm gonna put it in the show notes on Shelly's episode So literally just click on the show notes and you can see literally the link that has the affiliate with girls and property So if you are interested just so that Shelly knows that you've come through the podcast Please just make sure you click through that link if you want to to look at anything to do with vault and then you come into the girls and property Affiliate through there, which would be absolutely fantastic. So yeah, go on Shelly like I love it and I love seeing just just the growth And I love seeing us just champion each other and it's beautiful. So you ready for your final question? From me. Yeah, okay, cuz I really want to ask you this I don't ask it to everyone on this podcast, but I asked it to a few people that I really one I'm curious in their answers, but two I just think it's a really beautiful way just to finish the the podcast as well So my question to you is this and this question was asked to me on a podcast that I did and it stumped me where I literally didn't speak for yeah I didn't speak for about three minutes while I came up with the answers to this question. But the question is this. What's one question that you've never been asked that you wish that somebody would have asked you? Regarding business. No, could be anything. Like literally anything. Mine was non-business related. Like what's one question that you wish someone would have asked you in order to get to know you more, but no one's ever asked you? Gosh, I've had a lot of conversations. Yeah, that is a really hard question. What I wish someone would have asked me. You know, I think where, and I guess it is kind of business related, but also not, I think, and having done the kind of process that I've done over the last sort of years, 18 months, like a lot of working on myself and stuff, and now I have a lot more self-awareness and awareness of other people because of it. And it is really just checking in with people, even... And especially people in business who understand that more than anybody else, because I've kind of struggled sometimes to separate that kind of personal and business. Because I, know, I wake up in the morning, I'm thinking about my business. We were speaking about this the other day. 99 % of the time, I'm thinking about ideas and how I can move forward with my business. And we neglect ourselves so much. And I feel, had I not have, and people have asked me this question, but I think it could be asked more. you know, how are you? How are you really like, is there anything that I can do to support you or, you know, I'm just here if you need to listen. I think we need to be a little bit more like that with each other um because it goes a long way. It's like, know, when someone says that you're okay and you're like, don't ask me if I'm okay. my god, honestly, I remember once someone said to me, are you okay? I went, yeah, I'm fine. And they just stared at me. They literally wouldn't speak. They just stared at me and then they went, are you okay? And I just went, shit. I was like, they saw into my soul. Don't see into my soul. And it's really weird, isn't it? Because I think it's such a British thing to be like, you're right. Are you okay? And it's really natural for a person just to cross literally to go, yeah, all good. You? Yeah, good. But that's not true. Like, even if I was having a bad day and someone went, you're right, how are you? I go, yeah, I'm fine. But if me and you were to sit, Shelley, in like your kitchen and you go to me, how are you? You okay? I'd probably tell you the truth. You know? We're have a long conversation. And I think it's just nice to invite more of that, know, invite more of this is what I've struggled with and everything rather than everything being a competition of who's better, who's bigger, who's got the next big idea. It's actually how can we like treat ourselves better and also all the entrepreneurs and have more raw questions. em Because yeah, I think that's so important and having a good solid structure around me, like I've got a great husband, I've got a great family. em If I didn't have that support, I don't know if I would have created any of this, you know? em And it's sad because obviously there's people that don't get to do that because they don't ever feel supported. So I think just to take away anything, it's just look out for your entrepreneurs more and have those conversations that you actually feel vulnerable to have. Yeah, vulnerability is a superpower. think that's something that I'm learning every day. I used to be really embarrassed. Yeah, it's been embarrassed to be vulnerable, but I think that that is actually the place where the truth lies and the best relationships get formed. Almost because there's nothing to hide. You're just like, this is me in my most vulnerable state and um we need to celebrate that more and for people to be brave, to be vulnerable and to put themselves out there. So I love that. See? Great question, right? I feel like people have asked me that so maybe that was a little bit of a cop out of an answer but we need more of that. Yeah, I think it was a really, really beautiful thing for you to say. So thank you for that one. Shelly, as always, so many people are gonna wanna get in contact with you after this podcast. So where is the best place for people to connect with you? So I am on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm a social media slut, I'm everywhere. yeah, if you wanna get in contact with me, if you wanna speak with me, it's Shelly Maria Yates property on Instagram. And let me just check my TikTok. I need to change it. Shelly Maria Yates on LinkedIn. I can't change it on TikTok, let me do it. But just typing Shelly Maria Yates on TikTok as well, and I'm there. You can speak to me, any of those platforms. Drop me a DM if you have any questions about the Vault. I would send you to the Vault's social media pages, but because there's only two of us, and we're doing every single part of the business at the moment, we haven't actually brought the social media up to speed, and I feel like I'm quite embarrassed to send you somewhere where there's nothing been posted. You're gonna see it on my personal one more so than anything. em Don't talk to me on that. Come and speak to me on those social media platforms. Amazing and thank you for coming on today, Shelley. I always love our conversations They're just full of beans and full of realness, which I adore And as always everyone if you want to get hold of me I am Athena Dobson underscore official and girls and property on Instagram Just drop me a DM as always come and join the girls and property community You know, we were talking at the beginning of this podcast about when you're starting out You know, who are the people that you can trust? Who are the people that you can turn to? That is genuinely why I created the community. It's that you can meet other women and actually gain experience and to actually gain conversations where we're actually having that at the moment where people are asking about certain training providers, certain individuals, and we're saying, you know, are these people we can trust? Are these people we can go forward with? And people are being extremely honest in these conversations saying the good, the bad and the ugly, and then helping people to really move forward. And that's what I wanted. We're about 127 women within this girls property community now so it's really growing into something just more than I ever thought it could be which I'm just so excited about so gonna champion and and I'm really aiming for the next hundred and fifty which is fabulous and then don't forget I know it's crazy Shelley honestly it's 127 yeah yeah oh I hope so I hope so easy. so. Well, I was just gonna say, for anyone who's listened to this podcast, that's like, do you know what, Athena, I actually like the idea of this community. Let me give you an incentive, which is on Saturday the 15th of November, I'm hosting the Girls and Property Winter Party in Birmingham. So in Birmingham, we're gonna be having a Girls and Property Winter Party. This is going to be free for all community members to join this party. So if you come into the community, you get yourself a free ticket to join. If you're not quite sure about joining the community and you're like, I just want to dip my toe, I want to see the vibe. It's just £49 for a ticket. Come along, see the vibe, get to know the girls and then you can make the decision from there. But we're expecting about maybe 60, 70 women who are going to be in Birmingham at the Actress in Bishop. So come along, Shelley, you've been to my events, haven't you? have. you know what, I saw him, I was at networking event last week and I met someone that I can't believe it's been nearly a year since the Christmas event. That's scary. But yeah, they're always so much fun. We're always dancing, meeting new people, just generally high vibes. So I would definitely, if I was starting out in property, it's so important to just meet communities that you feel comfortable in, where you feel like you can just get that honest conversation. feel like that is really what Girls in Property stands for. So definitely go and get your ticket. I love that high vibes. Yes. I love that beautiful. Um, but as always ladies, you know DM me DM Shelley Let us know what you think of this episode. Don't forget to like share and subscribe Please leave a review as well It really means the world because it just helps with the algorithm for the podcast and I hope you will have the most amazing week Look after yourselves, you know, I am if you need me and um I will see you all next week. Have a great week ladies. Take care. Bye