The Chat No One Seems to Be Having in Property with Chris Tremlett

In this episode I sit down with Chris Tremlett from UK Homes Network for one of the most honest and human conversations I have had on the podcast. You know I love going deeper than the shiny surface of the property world, and this chat does exactly that.

Chris opens up about his journey in property, the pressures he has faced behind the scenes, and the personal battles with mental health and addiction that shaped the person and the business he is building today. We talk about what it really feels like to navigate this industry, the parts people do not always see, and the power of letting yourself be vulnerable rather than pretending everything is fine.

We explore why the sector needs more real conversations, more care, and more community. Chris also shares the heart behind UK Homes Network and his vision for creating a safe space where people in property can connect, feel supported, and actually be themselves.

If you are someone who often feels like you are juggling a thousand things, battling burnout, or wondering if you are the only one who finds this journey overwhelming at times, this episode will make you feel seen. It is a raw, relatable and genuinely uplifting conversation about being human first and business second.

Grab a cuppa and settle in for this one. It is special.

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to another episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So how's everyone doing today? I am super, super excited about today's episode. It's so interesting when you meet various people within this industry and you start off by kind of having conversations about what you have in common and you end up deciding and collectively looking at the fact that you run communities and that you're in the industry and, and you start having these conversations with various people. But then certain people that you then have these conversations with, you really start to then get to know them on a deeper basis and to start to know the people behind the brands. And they end up being such extraordinarily interesting people. And that's what I really love about this industry is meeting the people behind the brands, behind the businesses and getting to know them a little bit more. Now, some people know who this person is and some people won't, which is what makes this podcast so incredible. But this person is brilliant. He started the UK Homes Property Network, UK Homes Network, and has just done wonderful things with it. And whenever I've spoken to various people about this particular person, they have always just had nothing but wonderful things to say about them, which I think is a credit to them, because whenever you're not in the room, it's always this idea of what are people saying about you when you're not in the room. And today I'm really looking forward to having a conversation with this person and you getting to know them a little bit more and the person behind the brand. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce Chris Tremland. Hey, Chris. I'm good. This is great because I know that some people are gonna know who you are and some people are not, but that is what today is gonna be all about. And you already said it to me when I asked you, what is it you really want to get out of today's podcast? You said the most wonderful thing to me, which was music to my ears, which is I want people to actually get to know me more. than just the business and just the brand. And I was like, right, Chris. And I actually said to you, I was like, how brave are you feeling? That was my first question to you, wasn't it? Yeah, well, I took your lead because uh some of your audience will know that you came on a webinar with me recently and it was one of the most authentic sort of real stories we'd had on our webinars and you were so open and honest about your relationship with property, your relationship with your, not marriage, your... Ha ha! the wind joke for the webinar. But yeah, you were so so honest about everything that that's going on in your life that I wanted to sort of take your lead on that and and share a little bit more about me as well. Yes, I love that and I always say to people the reason I am because people probably think I'm a bit of an oversharer and I don't care the reason I do it is to inspire other people to also feel that they can turn up as themselves and the fact that Thank you for saying that Chris because it's made me really feel you know great about it because now I think right This is actually giving you the opportunity to as well and I'm so pleased that that you're gonna do this and kind of represent to A lot of men out there as well, we talk about lot of mental health and for men particularly, and I'm really hoping that a lot of the men who listen to this, which we actually do have quite a few men, will listen to this and really relate and think, okay, maybe I can open up a little bit more as well, which is fab. Just on the in-joke everyone, what basically happened was when Chris was doing his promo bit for me speaking at the webinar. and she's gonna open up about her married life and I was like, oh has he married me off, has he? I was like, definitely not married but yeah, I told Steve and Steve was like, well you know, we could and I was like, is that your proposal? And he was like, no, definitely not. So it kind of pushed that one along as well, hopefully. So we'll see where it ends up. So what you're saying is if there's a wedding, then I'm gonna be on the top table. Absolutely, you'll be like front and center. I'll be like, we dedicate this all to Chris. I love it. So Chris, take it to the stage then. So let all the listeners today who are listening to this podcast get to know you a little bit more. So my question to you is, who is Chris? Talk to me about like your, you know, time before you became the UK Homes Network. Like what happened to you? What led you to build this amazing community? And maybe something interesting that people who've known you for a long time and listening to this podcast, May not know about you that you'd like to share today. Yeah, cool. So, uh, hi guys. My name's Chris. Um, I, uh, launched UK Homes Network about roughly about 18 months ago. Before that, I've had quite a long career in property, came out of school, uh, probably did a year in college and decided it wasn't for me and ended up straight into the world of property. My first ever job was working in a surveyor's office, basically trying to do, uh, put ring binders together for all the home buyers reports. and got sacked after two weeks because I couldn't get uh the ring binders to actually glue together, to stick together. I was useless at it, but it kind of unlocked something in me. um yeah, I have had quite a fortunate and long career in estate agency. That's really where I cut my teeth in property and yeah, then sort of transitioned away from property quite dramatically actually. into the world of digital marketing. But, you know, once you're in property, you never kind of leave it. So I was doing digital marketing within the sort of property space. So whether that's for a house builder or, or more recently in the property sector. But yeah, I think it's, although that that career has sort of gone on for about 15 years, it's, it's had definitely its ups and downs. I really enjoyed sort of the people element and the property element and the marketing element. But under the surface, it's always quite a stressful, quite intense industry to be in, particularly if you're on the estate agency side and you're dealing with the British public who have their moments to say the least. I think when I first started in a state agency, a colleague or a boss at the time said to me, he says, there's some things you need to learn about becoming an estate agent. He says, you will be the worst driver within 12 months. He said, no matter how good a driver you are now, you'll be terrible in 12 months because you'll always be on stressing to get to appointments and sort of, you know, trying to dart across town. He said, but any estate agency office you go into, he said, you can guarantee there's at least an alcoholic, at least a drug addict, and at least someone that's, you know, an alcoholic and a drug addict at the same time. And that was quite clear in my estate agency career, but also I think in terms of myself, my mental health right through my career has been uh quite dramatic to say the least. yeah, I've had to battle sort of alcohol addiction, substance abuse right through my career up until a few years ago. when I got clean and sober, did a lot of work on myself, which is now why I'm in the position I'm in to be able to run my own business and actually I'm really focused and really clear about what it is that I want to do. Wow, incredible and Oh my goodness, so much to touch on there, Chris. So it's really interesting, you know, I speak to a lot of the state agents and I think they don't get enough credit with the amount of stress that state agents have to actually go through as well. I worked in a sales job. So it's quite similar. I think what it is, is it's to do with sales, retail sales jobs, I think, where you're dealing with customers and you're dealing with very high pressured environments. Now, I don't know if this was the same for you as an estate agent, but what happened in in my world as a travel consultant is we got a basic salary which was really low so all of our monies were in relation to the commission that we earned so the sales became so important which meant there was so much pressure and we were consistently compared to other people and put literally on charts in front of us as to where you kind of ranked if you like and they made it very clear about who their favorites were and who their favorites weren't and everything like that Did you ever get a sense of that within your own world as an estate agent? oh God yeah, like the salary that we were were on so There's a complete disconnect between if especially if you're working for an independent estate agent So your local high street estate agent where it's a family business You'll always notice the guy that owns the estate agency will be driving an extremely nice car and have an extremely nice house and yet the Sales negotiators, which is your most junior role within the estate agency will be on literally next to nothing to the point where it's almost criminal. So when I started a state agency, I was on 11 grand a year. Um, and then I would basically earn a very small percentage of each sale, which I would only earn once it's gone through completion and it's been invoiced and they've actually received the money for it. So you have to build up a pipeline. So for the first three, four months, It's probably longer now if you're starting out in a state agency because the completions take so much longer that you will essentially build up that pipeline and that will just break you even to a point where you can ah continue to do that career. I also worked for my first estate agency. worked for the guy wouldn't pay you fuel. So you had to pay your own fuel and then claim it back off the government. via an accountant, which you had to pay for every 12 months. So although you were employed, it was sort of a very weird scenario where you weren't even being paid the basics of to do your role. So I would finish at five o'clock, half five, sorry, and I would go leave the High Street branch and cross over to Domino's over the road, go upstairs, change into my Domino's delivery outfit. and then I would drive from six o'clock in the evening until gone probably 11 o'clock at night and I'd do that at least four or five days a week just so that I could actually survive doing the estate agency. Now it's quite interesting that I was actually being paid more by Domino's than I was by the estate agency so it would have been made more commercial sense to actually stick with Domino's but I just I love property too much not to give it up and When I'm speaking to younger estate agents, I'm still hearing the same things. But I think there's a massive problem at the minute with, and I know it gets talked about every sort of six months that estate agents need licensing and licenses need to be brought in. And I'm a massive advocate for that. Cause if you get licenses, then not only does the public perception change of how you're dealt with. like, what you would have experienced in retail is that, you're just, you're working a shop. So you're a piece of shit basically. Oh, sorry. Can you swear on this bucket? Right. Um, so yeah, they'll treat you like a piece of shit and you'll essentially, um, you'll just battle your way through your day until you eventually find that one nice customer that will respect you enough to say please and thank you. And that's the same in a state agency. And I think that if they brought in licenses, not only would they treat people better, but also, I think that there would be more added pressure from senior management and senior leadership within estate agencies to pay people better to become estate agents because they would have to go through a series of qualifications in order to be sat in a seat in the first place. Yeah, I agree. know that whenever I speak to a lot of brokers, they also have the same thing from a brokerage perspective, because they literally say anybody can become a broker and start to give this advice. And I think that there is a lot in this industry where we need more regulation being brought in, in all departments for that, where we can all just protect a little bit better. So I love that. Chris, one question I've got for you, just because you mentioned about this situation with you and turning to drink and uh substance abuse, as it were. So when you were going through all of this, first of all, I find it very, very sad, very sad that a person that you spoke to said to you as if it was just normal conversation. At least in every single estate agent, you'll see a drug addict, em an alcoholic or somebody who does both. And that was almost just a, a flit away comment probably that a person said to you. But of course, unfortunately you mentioned there that you, you almost fell into that trap. and you became one of those numbers, one of those statistics as it were. So was that like a sense of unfulfillment in the world and therefore you turned to it for comfort and fulfillment with the whole drink and substance? what was the correlation there do you feel like within your life? Because I think it's important for everyone to hear this who may be feeling a similar way at the moment and potentially we can save with this conversation. Yeah, I don't want to underplay it. I completely fell into it. And I was uh an absolute mess. uh A best friend said to me, Chris, you're the only person that I know that can turn a Monday night into a Friday night. And I saw that as a badge of honor. you know, there wasn't uh a party or there wasn't a session that didn't have my name on it. And I loved it. But it wasn't a case of the... the estate agency career pushed me into that. There were certain burnouts and there were certain situations that I found myself in which encouraged me more to drink and to do more drugs and whatever else. But I'd say that because the state agency is a sales role and because it's a people role, that naturally attracts uh extroverts and people that are a lot more personable. And people that are a lot more personable and a lot more extroverted tend to have maybe something going on on the internal. Because I think me and you have chatted about this that confidence is a quiet confidence. If you are truly confident, you don't necessarily need to sort of gain everyone's affection and be out there, whereas salespeople genuinely do. And sometimes that could be linked to a trauma response. And I think that was definitely true for me is that I was always trying to get people's approval, trying to get the deal signed off and feel really good within myself as also as a way of sort of almost self-medicating. And that was also the same for, know, drinking drugs is that I was using them in tandem to make myself feel better about some of the issues that I'd not addressed head on. So that when I... found myself in certain situations within my estate agency career. There was a point where I was self-employed working from six in the morning till two in the morning, seven days a week without a day off that exacerbated those drinking drug problems until I actually finally realized or not that I realized because I kind of knew in the background, but actually faced up and took some accountability for the way I was feeling and. and try to address it head on. fair play to you Chris like I think that's the first step isn't it which is absolutely incredible and do you know what I love this podcast for these types of conversations I really really do because I of course do this every single Monday and I release every Monday and I have conversations the most extraordinary people but I think that what happens is is I see lots of brands out there and so you know when I when I first heard about UK homes network I was like okay great, love what you do for the ethos of the network. Then I met you and I went, love your energy, love you as a person, think you're fab. But actually then what happens is, is you then go below the surface with the podcasts and conversations that you have with people. And you realize that every single person on this earth has a story. Everybody has a story that they've been through that you can either relate to or be inspired by, whatever it is. And that's why I think these stories are so important because I think it's a very brave thing to almost um be very vulnerable. on this podcast for everybody to hear, whoever wants to hear it. And I think that's a really massive, massive thing that we're doing right now. So it's great. And I want to carry this on. I want to touch on UK Homes Network and how it came about as a result of all of this. But just before I do that, Chris, on this podcast, I personally love celebrating. I think that as business owners, and I don't know if you relate to this, personally for me, I have literally just sort of supercharged my way through business and life. It's kind of who I am. Particularly when I used to make sales, I know that you were in sales, so can talk to you about this. You know, I was in sales for seven years and for me, it was always about, okay, hit target, hit target, here's the commission. And then I'd hit it. Let's say that I was like, right, my target is to at least get 5 % commission. I'd hit it. I'd go, right, what's the next one? 7%. What's the next one? 10%. And then I'd get to the end of it. I'd hit my 10, I'd get my paycheck and I'd go, cool, okay, that's nice. Here we go again, wake up. do it all again. And that's literally what sales life is like. And so you don't really ever stop and think, what is it that I'm actually celebrating at this moment? What's going well for me? What am I proud of that's happening? So I'd like to take the pause for both of us just to ask what it is that you're celebrating today. Yeah, so this is something that as business owners, we don't necessarily do enough of. And I try and do sort of gratitude exercises every now and again, but I probably leave it too late because I'm already sort of feeling a bit depressed when I try and do the gratitude exercises. um But yeah, it kind of, it just sort of... pulls me out of it slightly when actually I should be doing the work beforehand and sort of journaling and writing it all down. But yeah, in terms of stuff that I'm really proud of, obviously I mentioned sort of, I'm coming up for three years, cleaning sober, been sort of no bumps along the way touchwoods um at this point. But I think professionally and personally as a person, I've been able to develop since running my own business in a way that I didn't think was possible. I mentioned about sort of quite confidence. I feel like I've almost got to a point where I feel quite happy within my own skin, which is quite a rare thing to have now at the moment with sort of the way the world is. But also professionally, we've brought on some amazing team members into UK Homes Network. The platform is consistently growing every day. We did our first ever live event in Birmingham in June and we're just gearing up for Manchester. And the response for that so far has just been uh incredible. em yeah, there's a lot going on that I probably do need to celebrate and that I do need to focus on. So thank you for asking me because that saved me a journaling job later. You Yeah, no, I'm really pleased with how things are going at the moment. And yeah, there's still loads to do. But I'm really confident with the team around me now that we're really pushing forward. Amazing. I love that. And I love the fact of the support that you've had. So Chris, talk to me. Actually, before I do that, of course, I nearly forgot me in terms of what I'm celebrating. I nearly went straight on to you. I was like, right. And I nearly forgot me, which just shows where my brain sometimes goes with this. I'll do a really quick celebration actually, because I was thinking about this. My celebration is actually, uh I'm at the stage now with growth in my business, where I'm actually now automating quite a lot of systems within my business. I've actually just employed, I say employed, contracted in, which is brilliant. I've now got four contractors in with Girls and Property, which is incredible. It's super, super exciting. And one of these is like a funnel manager. So she's going to be taking all of the stuff I don't want to be involved in at all. All of the marketing kind of funnel systems and everything that I'm rubbish at. I'm rubbish at data. I'm rubbish at, I'm dyslexic. So I'm not very good at data. I'm not very good at funnels. I'm not very good at kind of piecing lots of bits together. I'm more the person in the front end of the business, the business development person, person that loves people and really then producing the products and the ideas as it were. And then the other people sort of go, okay, this is how we technically put it together. And I'm like, yeah, whatever you want. And we have the same conversations. I'm like, I don't need to know how you do it. Just let me know it's done. And she's like, yeah, great. And it's fab. I love it. That's a really good one. I really like that. I tried the whole automation thing just before I went on holiday and some of those automations are not working now. So we'll have to have a chat after this because I'd be keen to pick your brain on that, but that is a fantastic one. So congratulations. Thank you. But again, it's about team, isn't it? It's about getting the right team in place, recognizing what we're not good at, what we are good at, and quite frankly, what we enjoy and what we don't enjoy, let's face it, and then really building out from there. So yeah, celebrations all round. And again, if I didn't do Girls and Property, I wouldn't celebrate that. I would just go, great, on we go. But actually it is a celebration because I'm able to afford it now that the business is growing and we've worked bloody hard, both of us. to get to where we are now to actually be in that position. So it is a celebration. um So Chris, talk to me about UK Homes Network. I'm really curious. So first of all, before we even begin any conversation, what is your platform? What is the UK Homes Network? Yeah, so we're a social media platform, but we are exclusively for people in property. So imagine LinkedIn or Facebook, if it was just property developers, landlords, and other professional services on there, posting about what they do, sharing their challenges, updating people on their projects, asking for advice, support, all that sort of stuff with no cat videos, no politics. unless it's property related. And yeah, it's purely just a level playing field for people to promote themselves or their businesses within the property space and find the resources that they're looking for. Yeah, how cool is that? Like literally a social media platform just for a property. So who would really benefit then from coming onto this platform? anyone that's in property. I know that's quite general, but in terms of my experience through property, so I mentioned a little bit about my estate agency career, but after sort of uh a major sort of breakdown, I fled the country for a year, came back. and decided that I needed to do a bit of soul searching in terms of what it is that I like doing and what it is that I'm really keen on. And one of the sort of standout things throughout my state agency career was that I was asked to do the social media for whatever branch I worked in. And we got quite good at it. But the problem is with property that property people only want to network with other property people. They don't need graphic designers or website builders or recruitment agents. Um, that are typically on platforms like LinkedIn. They just want to network with other people that know their pain points and what it is that they're going through on a daily basis within the property space. Added on top of that as an industry, we're being told we need to do more on social media, but I can tell you from my experience, it takes years to understand how the algorithms work. You know, what kind of content works, what kind of content doesn't work and to add that into the mix when you're trying to sort of navigate the renters reform bill, changes in planning, you name it. There's always stuff that's coming down the line with property. There needed to be a viable alternative to platforms like Facebook and LinkedIn that didn't have those algorithms and didn't sort of isolate people that just want to connect with other people. Hmm. So it's almost like, know, when people go to like property network events in person, this, is the online version of that. This is where they can just connect with other property professionals, basically. Bang on. Yeah, that's absolutely it. It's like we try and liken our business model to a digital exhibition or a digital networking event in the sense that, you you can come along, attend for free. You've got obviously sponsors within the platform. You've got people that are there to share education, to talk about what they're doing. But ultimately it's a way that you can sort of connect with people and find others that can help you along your property journey. m And that's really important for a lot of people that are using um UK Homes Network. Yeah, I love that. And let's face it, Chris, like as a business owner then, so you're the creator of this, which let's face it, to actually create a digital product is quite an extraordinary thing to do. I've been speaking to a lot of people at the moment who are actually physically creating apps and creating technology as it were, which is a completely different world and quite a difficult thing to do. So to take yourself as a business owner when you first started, what was that transitional period for you like? So you've gone away. love the fact you, I love the fact you actually said that you actually came back and did some soul searching or while you're away, you did some soul searching because I think, and I don't know your opinion on this, Chris, I don't think enough of us actually do that within our life. I think we see something, we think, does it make money? We then do it, but then we almost don't. take it through to fruition or we don't believe that it is the right thing but we end up doing it anyway and then we complain that it doesn't work and we blame all of the reasons why it doesn't work on external factors but actually the truth of it is is that not enough people just admit it wasn't aligned with who the hell you are so when you're talking about this notion of soul-searching what happened when you came back and you built this business? Yeah, so there was a quite a big period between sort of coming back. So I lived in the Netherlands for a year and then I basically had probably about a six year career in digital marketing. So I literally started from square one again. So I'd got in my state agency career, got to the point of management sort of either running branches or, you know, value in whatever it was within my state agency career, I felt quite accomplished within that. So when I came back, I really had to start again from the digital marketing perspective. And that really allowed me to understand how businesses market themselves well and how they market themselves badly, particularly in the property space. So throughout the digital marketing side, I was using social media within a professional sense. So actually as part of my day job, whereas when I was doing it in a state agency, I was doing it more as a favor to the boss or as a bit of a hobby or, you know, just a bit of an interest. So now I had to really sort of learn about how that worked. em in terms of that period, so I launched uh UK Homes Network about 18 months ago. And the reason for that was is that I was working for a business where we were doing sort of a similar activity to UK Homes Network where we had a platform for developers and landlord, sorry, just purely for developers where they could network. And they made myself and David redundant. about three weeks before Christmas. And the decision was, I really want to go and work for someone else? Or possibly at the most optimum time in my life, where me and Emily are really happy, we've got a house together, we don't have any kids, she's doing really well at her job. And I'm also in a position where I could start this business and really give it a good go without too many sort of responsibilities. or things holding you back like kids where you have to put all your energy and time into children. So in terms of the soul searching, it's been a consistent theme throughout my career is that I've had to look deep and look inwards in terms of what it is that I'm doing and how I want to progress. And that sounds like, you're really ah quite wise or quite aware of yourself. It is not that it's more of a survival element because every time I've got to that position of having to soul search, it's been because I've come to the end of a road that I cannot possibly go down any further. And that was definitely the path when I ended my estate agency career, where I'm literally at burnout. I've had a full mental breakdown, been hospitalized. I can't continue doing this anymore. So I've left the country. I've come back. an estate agency isn't there for me. So I've got to really sort of look at what it is that I want to do and what I want to continue. And throughout my estate agency career, it was always the psychology of the transactions, why people wanted to buy property and how they interacted with property online that really sparked my passion for digital marketing. And then obviously, if we fast forward to the point where I was made redundant, it was that there was a real need for people in property. to be able to network and be able to use social media more effectively, but then not be burdened by having to do what I did, which is learn it over, you know, over my career, get to understand how the algorithms work, and then watch what kind of content's working and what's not. People don't have that time and that ability to be able to do that. So the soul searching came with UK Homes Network as a real need. not just within myself but also from the industry to be able to offer something a little bit different. Yeah, that's so interesting. I always feel like, I always think it's a real shame when, by the way, myself included in this, it must be a personality thing, it has to be a personality thing, where we always feel like we have to get right to the end, uh edge, you know? We have to push ourselves so goddamn far that we possibly can't go any further to go into survival mode to then think, now I should probably look to do something different. And I want to almost say to the listeners, like, what my advice would be is just pull back about 20, 25 % where you start to really think about it because, do know what, I was listening to you speak there, Chris, and I thought nearly every time I've made a conscious decision where I've pivoted or I've shifted has been due to the fact that I cannot go further down a path any longer. Exactly what you just said. And, you know, I've experienced burnout twice really badly and... And I just think to myself, why did it have to get to that point for you to then make a change? Like why have you got to push yourself and your body to the absolute extreme before you wake up and realise that something actually needs to change? It'd be so much better for all of us as human beings, I think, if we just recognise that before we have to get to that point. And that's a lot of the times I'm having conversations with women at the moment who say, Athena, I feel like I'm on the edge of burnout. I feel like I'm getting there and hoping we can catch it in time. I mean, what do you think about that in terms of going right to the edge of that, as it were, why we have to do that? Yeah. So burnout has been a constant theme since running my, my, business. And I really start to get to understand now in terms of where I'm getting close. And sometimes I'm even, you know, a bit self-destructive cause I push it ah even further. And that can be eh not good. Like for example, ah the last holiday I had up until about a week ago was Christmas. The last time took any time off and I pretty much work. every weekend because if I don't do at least an hour on a Saturday morning, I spend the rest of the weekend feeling anxious. So I do it just to pacify myself so that I can enjoy the rest of my weekend and be present with my friends and family. And that is something that I've had to learn about myself in order to overcome that. And I think that in terms of burnout more generally is that people can tell you every single day that, you know, that you're liable for burnout, but unless you start to sort of recognize the signs within yourself of what burnout actually looks like, and some people do burn out, then there's no way of catching it the next time. And it's a horrible process to go through, but actually I think it makes you a little bit more resilient, not resilient in terms of not avoiding burnout, but more resilient in terms of how you handle burnout and actually making sure that you stop it. quite early on, or you do give yourself that time off or that break away or remove yourself from certain situations from, you know, what's going on in your life. I mean, it just so happened that with my burnout, my big one between my estate agency career and my digital marketing career was that I got diagnosed with a mental health disorder. So I was hospitalized. diagnosed with a mental health disorder. And from that point on, I was able to understand a little bit more how my brain works and how my mind works so that I can actually recognize the signs. So if you're finding that you're regularly running into burnout, I don't want to put time scales on it because everyone's different, but if you are regularly hitting burnout, maybe more than you would expect or more than... you know, is, is what you would deem normal, then there may be something else going on there. And if your burnouts are probably more dramatic than they should be, it might be worth actually speaking to a professional about it. Like I did, because there could be something deeper lurking there that is affecting not only your personal life, but your career, you know, just every interpersonal relationship you have. so burnout is, although it's it's quite stigmatized and it's quite, it should be stigmatized because it's a really negative thing. It also has a lot of benefits because it allows you to look a lot deeper in terms of what's going on. And it's the first sign that your body's telling you something's not right there. completely agree with you. I love that you just said that as well, because I think that's such an important thing to say and it is, isn't it? We talk about our bodies as well and prioritising our bodies is a really main one. Chris, I've got a question for you, which is I put a post out recently, which gained quite a good attraction because a lot of people I feel when I was having conversations with them and they were starting a business or being a property investor, they were saying things to me like, oh, but I find it really embarrassing to do that. Oh, I'll be really embarrassed if that person laughs at me. I'd be really embarrassed if that doesn't work and what I said to them was was I was like you literally can't move forward within business or life or anything that you do unless you basically pay the price of embarrassment like Chris you'll know this you've probably worked out my personality the amount of times I have embarrassed myself is unbelievable I mean I've got to the point now where I don't even care like if I was to do a story if I was still in like my dressing gown literally wouldn't even faze me because I've done so many embarrassing things I'm like nothing can literally embarrass me I say that maybe some things, but not majority of things. So my question to you is, you know, when you're starting the business, have you ever had to do things that you thought, God, that is so embarrassing, but you did it anyway. And sort of getting, getting over that, that fear of embarrassment. Yeah, I've had a few. So I've tried to push myself out of my comfort zone with my business because the one thing that I decided quite early on is that if the business fails for whatever reason, I don't want to be sat a month later going, I could have done more. You know, I should have done this or I should have done that. So I've literally tried to push myself out of the put myself into the most uncomfortable situations to try and get to make sure that I've covered all bases and one of those is public speaking. And I regularly go through situations where it doesn't matter how much you practice, you always have off days with your public speaking and you might say the wrong thing. The advice that you might give out on the night might, uh, your brain might wander and you might just sort of Freudian slip or say the wrong thing or whatever it is. Or you can't even string a sentence together. Like I regularly have this problem where I'm in an R in, I'm like that. And then my brain works so quick that I'm constantly thinking five steps ahead of what I should be thinking, which is in the present moment. And there's been certain situations where I've gone on stage or whether I've been speaking to a group of people and that situation has happened and it happens more often than you think. Funny enough, you mentioned about social media posts. I actually put a post about this one kind of situation that I had. So I was speaking at an event in Manchester. It was one of the busiest events that I'd gone to. There was quite a lot of people in the room and for some reason, I just couldn't get it together. Just couldn't get over the line, constantly referring back to the slides, couldn't remember what it is that I'm supposed to say. I realized something in that moment. It was because I had a bit of a routine. It was a subconscious routine. So I would always check through my slides before I'd go on. And it wasn't, I wasn't looking for anything. It was just, my brain was registering the order that the slides go in because then when I go up, it makes my talk flow a lot more comfortably. And I'd completely forgotten to do it. I'd almost become complacent. So I was just like, do you know what? I'm going to go up there and I'm going to do it. Anyway, next 45 minutes were as painful as you can possibly imagine. uh I've been there, I've definitely been there. Yeah, and I was about six, probably six, seven months public speaking by this point. So I was starting to build my confidence. I was really starting to feel it on stage like I was doing well. And I went right back to square one, the heart palpitations, the sweaty palms. uh It was almost like rewriting Lose Yourself by Eminem. was like not quite Vomit on his sweater, Mom's spaghetti, but it was not close. It was quite close. So anyway. do you feel that the audience reacted to that? you address it? Did you wing it? Like, how did they react to you? totally winged it, but one thing I've learned is that no one thinks it as bad as you think it is. So when you're like, because you've got that internal monologue that won't shut the fuck up, it's louder than any other voice that you're ever gonna hear. And that is the voice that is telling you that that didn't go well. Whereas, because you are the most self-critical of yourself than any other person will be. And when you speak to the audience after, they still come up and they still give you compliments and they still actually found value in what you were saying. It's just your flow was off. So it's not that they didn't take any more value out of it. It's just you shouldn't do the cadence that you thought would make this the most powerful. So I decided after that is that I wasn't going to let this sort of internal demons, the internal monologue take over. And like you did is I just put a post out on social media, which I tried to take full account accountability for the situation where I said, you know, I got complacent, didn't work very well. And you know what? Like that was one of the highest engagements I got on a social media post because people could actually relate to it. But it was also therapeutic because I got to put it out into the world that, you know, I'm not trying to give off an image that I know everything that I'm the finished article. um I'm still trying. I'm still, you know, going through the motions throughout my business journey. And I think a lot of people related to that. now it's given me the opportunity to talk about it on this podcast, but also sort of say it with a smile rather than being sort of, um, derogatory or, you know, sort of beating myself up about it. yeah. And you know what, do you know what? This is what, this is what brings people, humanity together so much, which is everybody gets embarrassed and everybody feels like they screw up and everybody thinks it's the worst thing. But actually the more you talk to everybody, the more everyone is like, yeah, I screwed up like a week ago. Oh yeah. I was embarrassed literally yesterday asking the investor for money and I said the wrong thing. I was embarrassed because like my girl Stacey did a her first ever talk to camera. For some reason, a lot of people are scared about talking to camera and like a story and in it she like blinked like literally a thousand times. Like I did laugh. It was really funny. She literally blinked so much on this story. We all took like took the mick out of her and she took the mick out of herself. But I said to her, you did your first story. Like you did it. You should be so proud of yourself. And the more and more you do things, the more and more you're actually going to feel really great for it. And obviously Chris, the next time you go and you do a public speaking event. you're gonna think differently about it. For me, I'll tell you one that embarrassed me recently, but I own the whole thing straight up when I went on stage, was, don't ask me how this happened, I've spoken like throughout the entire year, I did my last one for the year in Peterborough recently, and I changed all my slides, I changed all my slides, I was like, it's my last one, I wanna do something different, I got bored of my own content, to be honest with you, so I'm just gonna change it up. Obviously, me being me, put the slides on my laptop, didn't send it to the organiser, I like oh I need to remember to send it never did um got to the event without my laptop and went I don't have any slides like I was like I have I have zero slides to give you because they're all on my laptop which is about like an hour away so I was like oh my god what am I gonna do legendary Sam Cooke I called and I was like mate I need your help immediately. He's like what do you need and I was like I need you to send me like my slides from six months ago whatever they look like I need something to present like whatever they look like just send them over to me. He sent them to me within two minutes I looked through them went yeah I'll just make this work and the first thing I did when I brought up the slides and I was welcomed on stage I went right let's just talk about this shall we? These are six month old slides that I'm gonna talk to you about because I didn't bring them with me and I just spoke about it straight away. One, so that I calmed down and I didn't have the anxiety holding onto the thoughts and two, to kind of make the audience laugh to go, I've definitely done that myself. Like if her slides are a bit off or she goes slightly off, we know why and it's because she's not the finished product. So for me, I think the best advice is just to talk about it and just to talk about what embarrasses you because... If anything, it will make people laugh and will make people relate more. So just just admit it, I think. Yeah, Canva is my worst nightmare because I love Canva and I hate it at the same time. But when I do my slides, when I'm talking, Canva will regularly move the imagery and it's a pain in the ass and it really, really upsets me. But yeah, you do just have to kind of laugh it off. But something you said about Stacey there, and I've been fortunate enough to exchange a few emails with Stacey, is that I just wanted to show you something. So I was looking away briefly there. But with the video content, I do quite a lot of video content and everyone says, how'd you get the confidence to do that? How like, you know, whatever. I just wanted to quickly show you and apologies, audio listeners, but you'll be able to see on my phone the amount of outtakes for just one video. That is probably on that particular video I did. The average is about 34 outtakes per video. So Yeah, if you are just starting out on doing video content yourself or like Stacey and you're just putting your first reel out, your first story, just know that I've been doing these kind of videos for God knows how many years and I'm still doing about an average of 34 takes on each video. Do know what you should do, Chris? You should make a whole blooper reel out of those. So all of your, all of the rubbish, I'm telling you, that will be such a good post. Just make a blooper reel. They're so funny. They are and you're so right, but I can't even bring, I know we're talking about embarrassment and only an embarrassment, but I can't even bring myself to do, cause a lot of them. on this is what we're talking about right we've got to get over ourselves I know it's embarrassing that I'm telling you embarrassments is the cost of success people will love it I won't bring your podcast down, but I do drop when I do the, when I do an outtake, my unusual response is to drop an expletive and it's normally, uh, one of the worst ones that I use. So it's probably not viable for even my own platform or LinkedIn. It might work on TikTok, but yeah, the bloopers on there. I would love to put, well, I wouldn't love to put them out, but I would. The language is two choice even for me for them out. Yeah not then, maybe not. But still, the whole point though is if we can't laugh at ourselves, then we're dead is what I think. I think that just laugh at yourself because I'm telling you, if you laugh at yourself, nobody can laugh at you because you're laughing with them. You know what I mean? If someone laughed at me, I'd probably go, yeah, absolutely, that's embarrassing. For example, I put up for my 34th birthday a post and it's me in my pajamas with my hair in a messy bun blowing out my candles because it was 11pm at night. It wasn't me sat in this birthday outfit with this cake that I had at the Ivy Asia. was like, no, that's too perfect. Boring. I'm to put me at 11pm at night in my pajamas on face on on social media because it's real. It's real and that's what I think people actually love and relate to so I I'm all for it So thank you for telling us what you're embarrassed by um, chris. I had a thought as we've been speaking because i've been trying to work out in my head Who would be a good person to come onto the uk homes network? And I know that you said it's for everyone But i've been thinking about the types of girls that I talk to on a regular basis And I think I figured out potentially what could really benefit someone so I speak to lot of women who don't want to go on social media to talk about their property business or what they're doing for certain reasons and they are literally the best kept secret ever. They don't want to do it because they don't want their family to find out what it is that they're doing because they feel a certain way. They don't want their work to find out what they're doing or if they're trying to go for like a part-time job or something like that. So they don't put out offers or they don't put out what they're doing on social media for those reasons. What I'm thinking to myself is why don't those particular people come on to the network instead because it's a closed circuit and they can talk about all the projects they're doing, the investor finance they need, whatever it may be, and then their family and their boss and everything don't need to find out. Now I don't encourage that, I think everyone should be whoever they want to be, wherever they should be and be on both. but at the same time if they don't want to be potentially is that right in thinking the UK Homes Network could work brilliantly for them? Yeah, this is like one of the main concerns I get. Like, so I do a talk on LinkedIn, on social media, and I've been sort of going around the country talking about why social media is such a powerful tool for your property business. And the first sort of concern or kickback that I get from every single event I go to, there's always a member in the audience that will come up and have a chat with me after about this, is that they either don't want their employer to find out what they're doing, or they don't want their friends and family to find out what they're doing. Now, That's totally fine. And I totally respect the reasons for that, particularly because there's a lot of people that are starting out on their property journey that don't want to rock the boat with their main source of income before they've got, you know, off the ground with a couple of projects. What I would say to those people is that UK Homes Network is the perfect environment for them to do that. One, because there's no algorithms. So it won't be carried to people that are outside of the industry. But it's also a space where you will probably be matched by people that are at a similar level of social media exposure to yourself, where if you're gonna make mistakes, if you're gonna post stuff with a few spelling mistakes, or maybe the image is gonna be a little bit off, of course, we always wanna see the best kind of content coming to UK Homes Network, but it's an environment where you can make those mistakes and actually uh you'll have a community or a cohesive environment around you to support you and actually. get you more comfortable with posting. But yeah, absolutely. Your friends and family, can guarantee, not in UK Homes Network. So yeah, if you want to post in there, you can do so within the comfort of that. And we've purposely kept it hidden so that Google can't through SEO the posts they're doing. So if you sometimes search for people's profiles or search for different types of content into Google, you'll actually be able to see it. you need to be actually a member of UK Homes Network, just a basic free member of UK Homes Network before you can actually see any of the people or content that's in there. Right, perfect. I love that. See, I was just thinking to myself, I was like, yes, I can totally understand then people that would come on to do that. I think Chris, finally, I just want to touch on something also. I've just been thinking about when we had our conversation when I came in and did the webinar with you and you were fantastic because I was so able to just bounce off of your own energy and your own authenticity about really opening up on this. And you mentioned something to me that I think is important to mention to the listeners, whoever's listening to this, because I think what happens is that people kind of now when they get to know you or they get to know me, they almost don't see like the version that you've had to go through or the version that you were and vice versa for myself. And I remember you mentioning something to me, which is when you started to do this business, know, people started to say to you, well, what's your experience with property? How many property portfolio? What's your property portfolio look like? You own an actual tech company to do with property. And I won't steal your limelight, but somebody actually said something quite derogative to you as well, which I think is important to share for people that maybe, well, I know for a fact have been told a similar thing and have their own stories of how they've been made to feel a certain way with their situation. So do you want to just touch on that briefly for the listeners? Yeah, so the first thing I want to say is that property is not a cult. It's a sector, it's an industry. And although there's some fantastic organizations like Girls in Property that are there supporting each other and building communities around property, it's not something that you can just get into lightly. It is whether it's you're working on the professional side or you're doing your own properties, is regardless of what kind of entry level you're at, it is going to be tough, like seriously tough. Cause not only is there a lot to wrap your head around in terms of legislation, in terms of, we could spend all day talking about all the sort of knowledge that you need in terms of property and how much you have to build over a period of time. But also there's so much that can go wrong and people need to be sort of, you know, given the time and the space to be able to do that. But what I find regularly, and this is a real bugbear of mine, and I didn't want to bring the podcast down too negative, but I'm going to... It's not negative, Chris. It's important to have these conversations because this is what the podcast is about. Yeah. Um, is that people are, when you go into a room and you're networking, they immediately feel drawn to ask how many properties you own. Now in any other sort of social situation, that's extremely rude. Um, but in property that is kind of not seen as a rude question because it's seen as a business decision or a business, um, question. Um, but I had an interaction last year where, um, I've made no secret that I don't, I haven't built a property portfolio and I haven't done ground up developments. I've worked for a major house builder. I've worked in a state agency. I've worked with a lot of developers, a lot of landlords and a lot of investors, but have I done property investment or property development myself? No. So it's really, really straightforward. I'm really open about that. Um, and this certain interaction was asking how many properties I had in a portfolio. And I said, I don't have any properties. And their response was, do you still live at home with your mum then? And I was like, no. And they sort of laughed and then walked away. And I thought in my head that kind of sort of sums up that interaction and certain individuals that do it. Now it's quite interesting that that person had only done about two or three projects themselves. So maybe they were trying to make a name for themselves, but... It wasn't a very nice interaction to have. And when I'm speaking to other property professionals within the industry, whether you're an estate agent, whether you're a mortgage broker, whether you're, you know, whatever it is that you do, um, there is so much that goes into actually that craft, that skill. We talked about licensing for estate agents that, um, it's very, very difficult then to make that transition into actually developing your own properties or refurbishing your own properties, whatever it is, building a portfolio, but that doesn't, uh, doesn't de-validate your position within the industry because you're essential. And a lot of people who are doing those ground up developments who are doing, you know, those, those flips couldn't exist without your expertise and without your help. Um, and I think it's really only a small percentage within the industry that are actually doing their own. Um, and I think that needs to be a little bit more, um, a little bit more talked about. There are certain organizations around the industry that do try and fuel this sort of cult-like mentality and we need to sort of break out of that, I think. Yeah, 100%. And the reason, thank you for sharing that Chris, I really appreciate that. Because when I try and encourage a lot of women within the community or just women in general to really go to property networking, one of the resistances that they actually do say to me is, I'm scared if somebody asks me what my property portfolio looks like. or I'm scared because I don't know what it is that I'm going to say when they ask me that question. And I say to them, change the subject. Like, it's none of their business. Like, you know when people say to you, I don't know if you have this Chris, one of the questions I absolutely hate, like despise at the moment, is people saying to me, so what do you do? I hate that question. They say to me, what do you do? I'm like, what do mean what do I do? I walk, I eat, I take the piss out of them. Honestly, anytime someone asks me what I do, I go. I like musical theatre, I walk, I like roller coasters, I'm obsessed with dogs. You know, they don't know what to do with it because I completely changed the subject. Because I'm like, I don't care what you do, like, it doesn't matter. Like, we're here to connect as people, we're here to have a conversation, as it were. And I actually think, do know what, I'm gonna say something, Chris. I think it's quite lazy. I think it's a very British lazy thing to do when you're interacting with a person. to go, hi, how are you? You're having a drink and they don't know what to say to you as a British person. They get awkward. British people hate awkward silences. And then they fill it with rubbish such as, so what do you do then? I just think that's such a rubbish question. Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, like I hand my hands up. I do find myself defaulting asking that lazy question. It's a lazy question. But I tell you what, for me and for a lot of people, when you're starting out networking, it is a nice fall back on. It's professional. You can ask it. You are so right that it is lazy. we, know personally, I cringe when I say it because I'm like, I could have done so much better there. There was some in What about something like, just a suggestion for listeners and things? What about, because it's an open question, like what brings you here tonight? Because... Yeah, go on. There was, so I did, I met someone who was a high net worth individual and I've met many high net, high net worth individuals over the last few months and they always ask me the same question. it's, so we said, what do you do is a really lazy question. We both agree on that, but you can add two words and that completely changes it. What do you do for fun? Yes. ask that, it changes the whole dynamic of the relationship and that introduction. So when you ask people what they do for fun, most high net worth individuals want to be able to trust someone that they're going to do business with. And they also want to build a relationship and they understand that that relationship is more key than what they're actually going to get in terms of output in that immediate conversation. Cause they're basically qualifying someone. So they need to qualify that they can work with someone. based on what that type of person they are, whether they're trustworthy, whether they have things in common, whether they are able to engage socially in a way that, you know, actually gives them confidence that they will pull through on this project. So asking someone what you do for fun, not only puts people massively on the spot, but it actually allows people to come forward and show their personality. So what I've been trying to do, and I've really struggled with this because I'm so in the habit of like, what do you do? is I've been trying to add those two words on what do you do for fun and the reaction you get from people. And I can tell you now that the conversion rate between doing business with those people and the people that I asked what do you do is way higher because I've immediately set it off on the right foot. So if you do find yourself saying what do you do, just think Chris is doing that, that's boring. just add what do you do pause and then go for fun and then see what kind of response you get back. yeah and you're gonna learn so much about a person based on that because yeah just i love that i've written it down like chris i've actually written that down i'm gonna do what do you do for fun i love that and that's gonna be inspired by you i'm gonna have that inspiration from you so thanks i've learned something today so i appreciate that there you go guys top tip when you're networking Don't worry about your portfolio. Don't worry about anything. And you know what? If you're scared about people asking you questions, lead the conversation. Don't wait for someone to ask you a question. You lead it the way you want it to be led. So you go in and say, what do you do for fun? And instantly we're not talking about property. We're not talking about boring things, it can then lead to anywhere. Like somebody told me the other day that they're really into bouldering and I was like, tell me more, tell me more about bouldering. Like how does it work? Really interesting. Where have you done it around the world? Then we got onto the talk of travel, et cetera, et cetera. It then generates and leads that as it were. So Chris, I think that was a top tip. And then I've got one final question for you. So I don't ask all guests this question. I asked certain guests this question and I want to know what your answer is. I'm really curious. So I got asked a certain question on a podcast recently that completely stumped me, like stumped me in my tracks and I reckon I paused. So it's not a very good podcast. I paused for about three minutes going, I don't know what the answer to this question is, but I was like, no, I'm not, I'm going to have to answer this question. And so I sat with it for about three minutes thinking how would I answer this? So I'm going to ask you this question, which I know you haven't prepped for. But I'm curious to know it from you. here it goes. What is a question that nobody has ever asked you, ever, but that you wish that they would have asked you to know more about you? Oh, that is fantastic. Yeah. And I can see why you paused now that if you're, if you're on the diary of a CEO, that pause would be the opening clip. It would be you asking that question and then that pause that that would be the opening. my god we need dramatic music. I'd like okay I need to change my tone to be more like Stephen Bartlett. Be like so Chris. Yeah so what is, what's a question? Now it needs to be a question that nobody's ever asked you that you wish that somebody would have asked you to get to know you a little bit better. Mmm. Yeah, that would be a really good question. I think I'd probably say... um What does adversity mean to you? That would be a good question because I think one thing that I've tried to say, and we talked about, you know, being inspired by how open you were on our webinar and showing the signs of adversity that you'd come through in terms of trying to get to the position where girls and property is growing, the podcast is huge. Like you're doing so well. but there has been so much adversity along the way. And the one thing that I've tried to sort of say during this podcast is that although I've been open about sort of my relationship between drinking drugs, mental health, that doesn't define me as a person. The adversity is what defines me as a person. That constant need to kick back and survival mode always kicks in at some point. whether it's, you know, I'm really down on my arse or I'm having a full breakdown, at some point survival mode does kick in. And I think to really understand me as an individual, you need to understand what adversity means to me. Wow, it's a good question, isn't it? Yeah, see maybe I'll tell you what, kept me awake at night, definitely. Kept me quiet for about three minutes thinking about it. But again, do you know what, Chris? I love this conversation with you. I'm so glad that we had this today because I think, I believe that this is where true relation, business relationships form is in these types of conversations where you're like, forget about the brand. Forget about money, forget about like the people that people see and let's actually have a conversation about adversity. Let's have a conversation about what we've been through and how that's affected us and the trauma that maybe we have in common that's led us to entrepreneurship and building from that. And it's really weird. think I've always had a fascination in people. I've said to people, if I have enough time with everything that's going on, I'd like to go back to uni and almost do like a degree in psychology because people fascinate me. Have you ever sat in a cafe, Chris, on your own and just watched people? Just watched them. Yeah, they're weird, aren't they? So weird, so weird. And you know what? You can always tell who's on a first date. I can call a first date a mile away. Yes, do you know what I was thinking? You know when you asked me that question in terms of what would be a question that no one's asked you before? That would be the opening question to a first date. That would be the best question to ask on a first date. deep for a first date though, isn't it? Do think we'd scare them off? Yeah, but you like if you're going to be with someone like me and Emily, we've been together for coming up five years. We love a deep chat. Like a deep chat is good. So having a deep chat means that you can address all the issues like you can be like you've got good communication skills. If you're people watching and someone one of those in the day drops a deep question and the other person responds to it, put money in that one. gonna I'm gonna give you one more then which is the question that I said that I wish someone would have asked me and this is the question that I would ask on a first date and the question that no one's ever asked me that I would ask on a first date is what scares you? Oh, that's a good question. know what scares you, like to your core. No, no, no, no, no, not you. But I'm just saying like, that's a great question. Like what scares you? Tell me what scares you. Like if I was ever gonna date again, which hopefully I don't, hopefully, you know, I'm done now, that would be a question that I wanna know. I wanna know what scares you because then I'm gonna find out who you actually are, you know. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they'll turn around to me and say, you scare me. have a nice evening, but you know, but at the same time, yeah, they'll be like, yeah, where's the bill? But you know what, then at least they're not wasting my time and I can just move on to the next one. But I just think that that's real, really interesting conversation. let's say, know, property networking, we're going with, what do you do for fun? What was the other one? Oh, what does adversity look like to you? And what scares you? I think they're great. uh They are brewing questions, to be fair. Oh. Yeah. I'd love it. You should put it out into Girls in Property and see what response you get from the girls. I'd love to hear what their responses are to those three questions. That's a good idea actually, I might do that, I've never done that before. Right ladies, I know you're listening to this, these questions are coming your way. I love that, I am actually gonna put that out actually, because I think I'd be fascinated to know who's brave enough to actually come forward and ask that question as well. um But Chris, I've loved today's episode, I I always knew I was going to, because I think that the right people are gonna listen to this episode and wanna know, right, what is Athena and Chris gonna talk about? and really sort of bring it together and hope that they've enjoyed it. And got to know about UK Homes Network as well, which I think is such an amazing community, first and foremost, an amazing platform that you've created. So if people want to know more about UK Homes Network and get to know you a little bit more and connect, where is the best place for them to do that? Yeah. So it's really, really simple. UK Homes Network is free. So you can download it via your app stores. So if you literally load up your app stores and search UK Homes Network, basically download the app. It takes a couple of seconds to create a profile. And you can drop me a direct message in there. You'll be able to message anyone in the platform. Love to have you guys put some posts into the network. Obviously, if the girls are listening, please do make sure that you share the amazing work that you're doing in Girls in Property within UK Homes Network, because the business is run by two blokes and we would love to have more female voices within our platform and especially the great work that the Girls in Property community is doing. So please let our female members know what you're up to, because we'd love to hear from you. But yeah, it's that straightforward, is that if you just download the app. We also have a web version. So if you don't have an up-to-date phone or are struggling to get onto the app, you can search ukhonesnetwork.com and you can access the web version there. Amazing, amazing. And everyone go and do it. I'm in there as well. So it's a fantastic platform to be a part of. And I just see it growing and growing and good luck with your event as well. Your in-person event. I hope it's a massive success for you. What day is that gonna be? The event? So it's the 22nd of October. 22nd of October. Okay, perfect. I think it's gonna be absolutely amazing. So I love an in-person event. It's fab. And then as always guys, if you've enjoyed today podcast, let me know. You can DM me at thena.dobson.official and girls and property on Instagram as well. And then do not forget Saturday, the 15th of November. Sorry, Chris, females only for this one, but we are going to be hosting the girls and property winter party. So we are expecting about 70 to probably 70 to 80 women. I'm gonna be coming to this. Now this is going to be for the girls and property community to come together. But for any women who have been on the fence thinking to themselves, what is the community? Who's involved? I'd love to get to know them. Do come along. It's only £49 for a ticket and you get to feel the buzz in the room. And the best thing is, is even though I'm South, because the majority of listeners are all over the UK, I have decided to host this in Birmingham at The Actress and Bishop. So if you're in Birmingham on Saturday the 15th of November, do come along, I'd love to see you all there. I have made the decision to just have this for females for this event, because I feel like as a female property network, I want to adhere and really hold true and honor why I started this platform and this community in the first place. And it is just to bring women together to feel seen and heard in one space. So um if you're interested. Drop me a DM with the word winter party or drop into the show notes and you can find them there But I mean Chris you you're in the Birmingham area. Anyway, aren't you you're around that area? Yeah on Coventry, so I'm 20 minutes outside. The actor and video is a fantastic venue. You guys are going to have such a brilliant time. Yeah, it's in really cool part of the city. So yeah, I'm almost proud that you guys are doing it in Birmingham. Is that weird? Yeah. love it. I've never been to Birmingham before, it's my first time. So I'm just like, yeah, let's just do it. You can come to the after party afterwards. I'll be like, right, Chris, you can come in now. Yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, we'll be supporting from afar us blokes will be be championing you on but we'll we'll we'll stay away from the venue because I imagine it's going to be it's going to be good fun and you're not going to want us to come and spoil it. yeah. it is. Do you know what I have to say? There is no dance floor like an all-female dance floor. It is so much fun. All the girls just have no inhibitions. We let loose and we just have a really good time. So I just can't wait for it. yeah, just come and come and let me know ladies and grab grab your ticket. But Chris, thank you so much for today's episode. And thank you for actually representing and showing up as yourself and for really sort of like supercharging that because I always feel that we inspire more people than we realize and I've got no doubt that people are going to be getting in contact with you from this and of course joining the network. So thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, I really really appreciate it. anytime. And for all the listeners, as always, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for listening. Love you all have the most amazing week and as always, if you need anything, let me know. Take care everyone. Speak to you soon. Bye for now.