Is Mindset Really Enough? with Alice Dartnell

In this episode of the Girls in Property podcast I sit down with the brilliant Alice Dartnell to explore a question so many of us as entrepreneurs ask ourselves. Is mindset actually enough?

We hear so much about positive thinking, manifestation and keeping our energy high, but what about the deeper layers underneath all of that? What about the beliefs sitting in your subconscious that shape how you move, lead and make decisions long before you even realise it?

Alice and I talk honestly about the stories we carry without noticing, the ones shaped by childhood, culture, family and the many versions of ourselves who simply wanted to feel seen and safe. Unless we have the courage to explore those deeper layers, we end up holding ourselves back, even when we think we are doing all the right things.

We also open up about identity, belonging and what it is like growing up mixed race while trying to find your place in the world. It is a powerful reminder that who you are behind closed doors will always influence how you show up in your business.

Mindset matters, but it is not the whole picture. Manifestation is powerful, but it cannot replace honest inner work and action taking. And as I share in the episode, you simply don't know what you don't know until you give yourself the chance to look within.

This conversation is for the woman who wants more for herself, for her family and for her future, but knows she cannot get there through confidence alone. It is for the woman who is ready to understand the real roots of her beliefs so she can lead herself and her business with clarity, courage and truth.

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. Well, I bet if you have clicked on today's episode, you have already seen that I am speaking to somebody absolutely fabulous. One of my favorite people actually in this sort of this world and business world as it were. She's brilliant in all aspects. But also I bet you're really interested to be like, hmm, this seems like a really interesting topic to listen to today. because today we are going to be talking all about this aspect of is mindset enough? Because let's face it, myself included, we're always talking about mindset. We're always talking about you need to have the right mindset. You need to cultivate a growth mindset. But actually let's talk today about this aspect of is that even enough in today's world? And that's what today's topic is going to be all about. Now, wherever you're listening from today, please, please let me know where you're tuning in from what you're doing, whether it's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, wherever it may be. And, and you know, I know that you're going to love today's episode just based on the guest expert that I've got a comment to introduce her once again, returning to the girls and property podcast. And I just know we're to have a lot of fun today and a lot of value. without further ado, I'd love to reintroduce Alice Dartnell. Hey Alice. Hi, oh my God, I'm so excited that I'm back. And we'll a bit of a different topic as well. So yeah, thank you so much for having me. And if the listeners are, oh, I recognize their name. Hello, welcome again. Yeah, exactly. And this is the thing, like you have been on the podcast, I think actually, well, I remember you were one of the first guests that I got on the podcast when I literally went and reintroduce it where I was, I became sort of the solo host, if you like, but you actually also came on the podcast before that again, when I believe it was me and Sophie, did Sophie host you or did I? Yeah, Sophie hosted you. So yeah, so you are a triple threat almost. This is your like, hat trick coming on the girls and property podcast. I love it. And like you said, today's topic is going to be completely different because of course, usually you're a time management expert and, you know, and what happened just to explain the context of why I've asked you to come on the podcast to talk about this, Alice, because I think it's important for the listeners is I went to one of your events recently, which was absolutely fabulous and business strategy, Dan, you can talk more about that, but you said something at that event that really stuck with me. And I remember thinking to myself, I have to have this conversation on the podcast and you really sort of like caught me in my tracks. You really got me standing still and really thinking about this notion of is mindset even enough? And I want to have that conversation with you today on this podcast, um which I'm super, super excited about. So Alice, can you first of all, for everyone listening, um everyone, I would love to actually go and listen to one of your original episodes. with time management expert and time energy and all of that as it were. So that's where kind of the big intro to you is and everyone can hear your story and how you got into the world that you are. But just to give a little bit of context today for anyone who hasn't met you before, heard you speak and is going to be tuning into today's episode, can you please give a little bit of a background and why you think this notion actually of this conversation of why mindset is enough even came into your sort of your forefront of your mind. my god, yeah. So as you said, predominantly I am a time management coach. So one of the things that I say that I help women do is I'm fuck their flow and take action. And for me, it's just so many of us as business owners get stuck in like procrastination, shiny object syndrome, overwhelm and... essentially the things that hold us back often is ourself and one of my big aha moments is that time management isn't actually about managing your time it's about managing you and your energy my burnout back in 2019 taught me that but it's so much more than just managing the time, know, the clock, the tasks and stuff like that. So when it comes to taking actions on your goals and getting to that next level, whatever your goals might be, the blocker often is us. So when we're procrastinating, when we're feeling overwhelmed, when we go get that shiny object syndrome where we're trying to chase too many things, like, you we are often the cause of that, not because of like a lack of time or things like that. So that's what I love helping women do. love helping women overcome that and achieve those goals. And the reason why this whole is mindset enough question came up for me is because I've read all the personal development books. Like I'm sure you have, I'm sure your audience have. And for me, it... it doesn't feel like it's enough. feels like there's something missing. So yes, it's important to have that growth mindset, be positive, but I just don't think it's enough. And when I work with my ladies, to overcome that procrastination, example, often what's getting in the way is that inner stuff as well, that inner dialogue, the mindset, the identity piece, et cetera. And that's often what's blocking them. So that's what really made me question, is mindset actually even enough? So even though it sounds like it's not connected to my specialty of time management, it really is. Because if that's not solid, then you could have the best strategy, the best game plan, the best time management skills, but you're gonna struggle to get your get yourself into gear and take action on the things that you want to. Yeah, I love that. And this is why I wanted to have this conversation with you on the podcast, because I thought, I thought honestly, I thought about going for a drink with you afterwards. And I thought, oh want to get like your opinion on this. But I thought, no, that's kind of selfish of me. I really want everyone to hear this conversation that I almost would have had with you if we'd just been in a bar having a drink together. So hopefully I'm going to be bringing everyone into that conversation today as it were. Alice, before we sort of jump straight into so many questions that I've got for you, em I'm really looking forward to asking you, can you first tell me, as we always do on Girls on Property, and you'll know this from all of your experience and of course listening to it, what is it that you're celebrating at this moment in time? I really, really love that you always ask this because I just think we don't do that enough and I'm really, really guilty of not celebrating enough. don't ever feel proud enough or successful enough and all that jazz and I really have to make a conscious effort of this of like putting things in my wind jar and stuff. So I love that you asked this question. So for me celebrations, I think it's embracing the fact that at the moment at the time of recording, I'm in the UK and I'm not meant to be. My plan is to be in Bali. If anyone follows me on social media, you know. My travel plans have been twisting and turning. I just thought, well, I'll start back in the UK. There's two ways to look at it, isn't it? You either go, I'm going to be in Bali and it's cold and you get all that meek about it. Or you go, right, well, let's make the most of this opportunity. And I decided to obviously go down that route. And now I'm hosting Business Brunch and Bubbles. We've sold out half the tickets in the first week. I'm going to be hosting a Christmas party because why not? I'm here. I've got plans to bring back my energy management course in the year because again I'm here why not so I'm just really celebrating these unexpected opportunities really yeah I love that. And you're really, really taking it in full force and going, because it's so rare for you to be in the UK. And of course you've got quite a lot of UK clients. So see it as a blessing to go, well, finally, it's no longer that we have to go on zooms and that we have to do this virtually. The people I've been like, this happens to all the time. And I don't know about you, Alice, you ever get it where like, I will speak to somebody on Instagram and I will literally mentor someone on zoom. And then they'll come up to me at an event and be like, Athena, do you realize this is the first time we're meeting in person? And I'm like, no, that's not true and they're like no it definitely is true and I'm like that can't be true I'm like I know you like I talked they're like yeah but it's the first time we've actually met in person and I think that's wild I think it's wild the connections you can make through social media the connections you can make through a zoom as it were and I think this is such a blessing for you right now that those people that that you might not have been able to have met you've actually been able to meet. And I know you've also been involved in loads of speaking opportunities as well. so this is such a positive for you. Just a colder one, I would say. Yeah, exactly. She sits with a blanket on her and it's only October. also things like I've shortlisted for an award and normally things like that I wouldn't be able to get involved with. You know, there's, I mean, who knows if I'll win or not? I don't know. But the fact that I actually get to go to the event and to the awards being and get dressed up and be with the other nominees, like that's pretty cool. I wouldn't have to do that in Bali. mean, swapping Blackfall for Bali. mean, you know, your listeners can have their take on that. It's same, same, but different. But, you know, I'm seeing it as a celebration and a win. oh I love that. Beautifully said, beautifully said. And then what am I celebrating at the moment? So when we record this episode, this of course is around about the end of October, as we said, to just going into November. And what's been really interesting is just like you, Alice, know, life be life-ing at the moment. And it's the same for me, like life be life-ing and, you know, different directions and turns, but I'm going to celebrate like, it's so weird, you know, like I don't even know why I thought it would be different. And I don't know why I thought it'd be different, but... The amount of love and support I have had in my personal life from the girls within the community, people who don't even know me who have said, Athena, I've seen that there's been things that happened to you in your personal life. listened to the podcast every week. I know you don't know me, but I just wanted to like reach out and just send my support to you. It has been incredible. There are no words I can give and I've received. I've received so many bunches of flowers that I don't have enough vases. I've received so many chocolates. I've received care packages. I've received everything. And it's just, it's actually overwhelming how much, I know it sounds really weird to say, but like how much good there is in this world. And particularly when sometimes what can happen is, especially at this time of year, I think cause it's cold and dreary and dark at 5pm, you can almost get quite lost in this notion that the industry is quite dark and there's dark things that are happening and you lose that fun. obviously I've lost a lot of, you know, it's been a sad time for me and I've lost a lot of sense of fun in my life recently. But actually there's so much color and there's so much good and there's so much warmth. And I think that's what I really want to celebrate today. It's like, hold onto that warmth and hold onto that, that notion of love and know that, that the right people will be in your corner and the right people will be there like, holding your hand the whole way. And I really just want to celebrate everyone today who's listening to this podcast. I know you're listening to it. I know you're there who reached out to me in my time and I can't thank you enough. Like it meant more than you'll ever know. So I'm celebrating everyone listening today and all the love that I have received at the end of October. So thank you. I really love that as well and I think that love and support element really links actually to the topic of like mindset because going through something challenging and I totally get it because it's been there and it really can knock your mindset and your confidence and self-worth and all that kind of thing. then when some, there's people around you picking you back up, my God, I think that's so important for mindset and all that kind of stuff. So you really can positively impact. So yeah, I love that. Yeah, and it's interesting, you know, because if you relate it back to business as well, and I always say this, I always say to the girls who I mentor or part of the group coaching or even in the community, I always say, on those days that you think I can't do this anymore, on those days where you think I don't feel good enough, those aren't the days to go quiet. Those are the days to speak up. they're the days to come forward to say, I can't do this. And I always say to the girls, like they always DM me and they always personally message me. And I'm happy for them to do that. But at the same time, I'm still a one woman band. what I need you to do is I need you to lean into the community. That's why it was built. It was built because also the other thing I say to them is if you just message me, no one else, you're not inspiring anyone else today with this message. Like you're inspiring me. Don't get me wrong. You inspire me every day, but you're not inspiring others. Whereas as soon as they put the message out into the community, suddenly boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I feel the same way. Thank you for speaking up. Thank you for coming forward. Like It is what people say it is. It is a place where it can be a very lonely, isolating field and game. And actually if we all come together to help one another, isn't that the whole point? And you know, Alice, like me and you, you know, we're not superhuman. We're not like, you know, robots or anything. We have our own emotions. We have our own feelings. And there are times where sometimes we even have to accept the fact that we need help. We need support. And you know, the girls were all saying to me, they're like, Athena, you're always there for us, let us be there for you now. And it was so weird that I thought, you're like, almost like, I can't let you do that. And they were like, well, you have no choice. You're gonna have to let, you know, we're doing it. And it was just a really refreshing way to think, actually we can lean on each other in this. um So yeah, really, really beautiful and comes back to mindset. So true though about that community element though, isn't it? Because I've got a community for business women and I have a WhatsApp chat with it and I can't remember what I was doing. Maybe I was recording something so my phone was off for just a couple of hours. One of the girls in that time had popped something in there and everyone had jumped on it and picked her back up. So by the time I got off my recording or whatever, turned my phone back on and it wasn't like, my job's done, I don't need to step in. But I was just so grateful for the community picking her up. So I'm so glad she messaged the community, not me individually, because my phone was off for two hours. And she was kind of like, all right then. And also I'm really proud of her for actually reaching out, because it's actually really bloody hard to reach out and go, I'm struggling, or I don't feel great, or shit's just gone down or whatever. And I think again, it's that. Talking about mindset, you do need to shift in mindset to go, I'm not a superhuman, I'm not a robot, it's okay for me to be sad sometimes, it's okay for me to reach out for help, like it really does require quite a, well it certainly did for me, like a mindset shift to go from like, I'm the superhuman, got it all together, I'm the one that people come to for help, to then be able to put my hand up and go, no I'm struggling today, this is like a little SOS message, can someone help me? It definitely requires a mindset shift. Yeah, just out curiosity, Alice, you think that, so I've often thought about this myself. Do you think that comes from a place where people think because they're selling their services and they're selling products online and they're, that they feel that they have to create or maintain is probably a better word, this persona. So for example, let's say that you are a time, uh, well no, You are not, let's say you are a time energy management coach. Let's take you as an example in this. you know, how would you feel if you were trying to sell your services and people were almost relying on you to pay you money, to pick them back up, but you were to put out a post to be like, actually, do you know what ladies today? I'm not feeling myself today. I feel, but today I feel down today. I feel this. Do you think there's strength in that? Or do you think there's weakness in some area? think there's strength, but I think you also got to be careful. And for me, it always goes back down to things like intention and energy. So I do believe that whatever your industry is, you have to walk the talk and you have to do that because you can't lead others and this you're leading yourself. So I'm not going to go to a PT that never goes to the gym because, or doesn't work out because what can you train me in? What can you teach me? How can I be inspired by you? there is an element of walking and talk, but I do think that is very different from, I'm so hard, I'm so perfect, I don't have emotions. I think that's very different. So for example, I think that leadership and authority, yes, it comes from walking the talk, but I also don't believe it comes from perfection. And... I would rather work with someone that was real relatable than someone who was so perfect, it felt unattainable. So, you know, let's use the PT analogy again. If there was a PT that went to the gym, you know, five days a week without foul, non-negotiable, know, rock hard abs, never eats cake. Actually, that's too much for me because I'm like, yeah, that ain't gonna work for my lifestyle love. But if I had a PT that was like, do you know what, go on holiday. cake you know I can be bothered to go to the gym today so I did this instead I'm like right you're my girl because you get in real life so I think there's a balance so I do think there is strength in it and I think certainly for me the balance I've tried to find is don't be a Debbie Downer and bring everybody's mood down and be like whoa me like life is terrible like there's no hope that I think is very different from hey this has gone down, not great, feeling a bit low about it at the moment. I know I'll be okay and you know I know I can get through this but this is just the current situation that I'm in or even retrospectively this is the challenge I've gone on behind the scenes that you might not known about. I think that is much more relatable and there's strength in that. 100%. I actually think that was perfectly said, Alice. First of all, I love the PT analogy because you're right. If I'm looking for a PT, you best believe I'm looking for someone who tells me it's okay to eat cake and, know, skip, skip leg day. Like definitely. And you're right actually, cause I think that, I tell you what I've also noticed. I've noticed, and this has only been... recent I think. I reckon this has been over this year I'd say. I've noticed that people are almost doing it in the reverse order. Where what they're doing is they're sharing sort of, they're thinking that they're turning up like authentic, which I do recommend that you do by the way, I'm not saying don't do that, be yourself, but I almost feel like they're doing it for marketing purposes and they're almost doing it for more click bait than they're actually doing it for genuine intention. So I think you said this earlier and I'm gonna just say this is my point on this. I think whatever you do, be intentional. Like if it's intentional to you, perfect, just do it. Because if you're not intentional to you, there's no point. um But it's really interesting actually, this conversation I'm having with you, just the dynamic. the PT analogy I thought was absolutely spot on. So. it's all it is that intentional purpose behind it and also the energy and I'm gonna be really no BS here like I have seen some accounts where people might have a really chronic just condition or something and you know they're saying that and they're sharing their struggles around something whether that's like I don't know it could be like endo or menopause or a health condition or something and some people are doing it in a like oh these are my symptoms and I haven't been able to get out of bed today and it's been terrible and that bums me out and I'm like oh yeah if Going back to the example, if they were an expert selling their services, would I go to them? Probably not. That's just me being really harsh, but probably not. But if someone's then going, look, Monday, absolutely right off, this happened. However, this is what I did to combat it. So I've got a client that specialises in PMDD and she's so honest. This was my struggle, but this is what I'm doing to help myself. These are the supplements. This is my tips. That's empowering. And there's more of purpose and an intention behind it, and I think that's the difference. I do know what that's perfectly said actually like at the end of the day, we don't want our newsfeed to literally be like the news and just depressing and telling us all the things that are wrong as it were. A great example I actually follow is somebody who has, I can't remember what the condition is, but she really suffers from bloating um and sort of... um IBS and things like that and and she shows the photos and she shows the day that she has flare-ups and everything else But then she combats that and she says so this is what I do and this is how I take it and she's obviously selling her services of being like, know now obviously a nutrition coach and everything like that But it's a really great example because I think people can relate to it and they can feel that that person will understand them But obviously showing a positive light on it. So I think what you've said is actually a great example Alice I'm I really appreciate you saying that Coming back to this notion then of is mindset enough? And let's hone in on this. So I of course talk about mindset and actually it's really interesting, know, because I tell you what I'm learning at the moment, Alice, and it'll be really interesting to get your opinion about this. And this is a no-holds-barred, like we can have an open and frank conversation with you, agree or disagree with me. Let's do it. I love it. So something I've learned this year for me is this notion about It is more than mindset and you're absolutely right that it's more than mindset. And for me, I'm now moving more into this notion about subconsciousness and making your subconscious conscious. And I think sometimes things that are happening, it's not even mindset. It's not even that. It's like you actually have a money block that stems from some deep rooted stuff that happened to you that you don't even know existed basically. or you have this block within you and the block comes again from something that has triggered you or happened and you keep getting triggered by rejection. You keep getting triggered by money blocks. You keep getting triggered by this, this, this, this, this. What is it? And you can read as many personal development books as you want and you can read as many things about cultivating a growth mindset as you want. But if you genuinely have a block that you haven't, don't even know you have that block, like it's not even a conscious thought that you are blocked. But if you feel that you are ready to then do the work into the subconscious at a deeper, deeper level, that's kind of where you're going to find me at the moment. It's more the mindset. It's now about subconscious elements that are deep rooted within me and other people that I've met and how we can almost learn to em appreciate and digest them and notice them so that you can move forward as a person. So what's your sort of thoughts about those elements, Alice? Yeah, oh my god, absolutely. So one of the things that I became really fascinated with is neuroscience and understanding how the brain works because we don't understand the majority of what's going on in our subconscious. I think it's something like 95 % depending on what study you watch or read or whatever. like Joe Dispenza says like 95 % of what we do is subconscious and ingrained by the time we're 35. So actually becoming aware of your subconscious, becoming aware of your brain as well, of why you're doing these things and how your brain is just designed to protect you and keep you safe. It's not there to design it. The brain isn't going to be like, you know, my primary goal was to help Athena fulfil her vision board of 2025. Like, my brain is keeping me safe, like it's in the comfort zone baby. So it's like, once you understand that, then you can start breaking through some of the blockers. When you start realising some of your repetitive patterns, which is so hard, because again, the brain is designed to keep safe and one of the ways to do that is just make life easy by doing things on habit, loop, repeat, no thinking. So yeah, that whole subconscious piece is huge, absolutely huge, which just, I think the tricky thing and maybe this is like the game to life is like understanding your subconscious and why you do and think the things you do. And sometimes you're so triggered by stuff you don't even realise you are and you're reacting, but you have no idea. I've got a really... silly example actually that's just literally popped into my head. So I was dating this guy when I was living in Cambodia, this Aussie guy and um He was really lovely and he texted me one day and then deleted the text and then wrote another text and I instantly felt like in my chest. It tipped me into the state of anxiety. I could feel my body like, I thought that's weird. Like what's going on? Anyway, having a couple of more times and I suddenly felt the trigger was when I first got my divorce and obviously knew nothing about dating at 35 and was like, what? met this absolute douchebag online who turned out to be an absolute narcissistic... BEEP! And what he'd do is he would message and if I didn't message legit within two minutes back he would send messages to me being like can't believe you read my message and not responded and then gaslight me and then delete the messages and then write something nice and it just I was like what?! And I suddenly realised... The nice Aussie guy, deleting that message triggered me back from two years ago into that situation. And then I messaged him, I said, I know this has nothing to do with you. explained the narcissistic situation and I said I think it's triggering me and he was like my god I'm so sorry I didn't mean it you know and then from that point if we ever deleted something and this is by the way before whatsapp did the edit so he would delete it and then it say sorry too many typos or sorry just recording the message and it took away all my anxiety and I'm so glad I had that level of awareness to know it and tell him because like that's the kind of thing that would cause a huge argument for no apparent reason or cause an issue with my self-belief, my mindset, my self-worth or whatever. So yeah, think absolutely, but I wasn't aware. It's not like a message and was like, he's messaged and deleted it. it's reminded me of that narcissistic twat. Like it wasn't, it's not a conscious thought, is It's subconscious. So. Alice, my God. First of all, love, love it. Absolutely love it. And can I just say, imagine if we went through life, right? And all the listeners, imagine if we went through life and we're like, this person has triggered me. This must be stemmed from when I was five years old, when I was in the playground. Thank you so much Trigger for really taking me to that moment. I am fully aware of what's happening. Like we are not AI. We are not a robot. So it's never ever going to happen, but It's just really interesting, know, because I think, and it's only been this year, by the way, like it's only been this year that I've really believed and really spoken about this. And, and of course, you know, I've started this, this accelerator coaching program that I'm now doing, and I'm working closely with Akhtar Khan, who's a subconscious coach. And so I've been watching the girls and I've been watching the girls on this growth journey and it's absolutely fascinating. watching them unpack themselves and having to repack themselves again. And, you know, I remember we did this session and I'm not gonna name names because I'll never do that, but I just want to give an example. We had an example where Akhtar was singular coaching each of the women. That's what he does within it. And it's amazing. I'll be honest with I didn't know he was gonna be doing this. And he's like, no, I'm gonna take each girl through their own journey one by one. And there was this one girl who's actually very similar to me. She is probably the most similar person to me that I've ever met and I say this to her, like, you are literally like me. And she was talking at such a rapid pace and she was speaking and I'm like, that's me. And he stopped her and he just went slow, slow, slow. He goes, take a breath. He's like, I can see it in you. Something's actually really hurting you right now. And she completely broke down, totally broke down just by him going, stop, stop. I can see something's hurting you right now. And it was fascinating to watch because she's like me. She was speaking at such a rapid pace and her mind was going at such a rapid speed that it was almost like it was distracting her from what was actually going on within her. And by the way, that's me in a nutshell, literally. So, I'm quick enough, you can't stop me to detect what the issue is. Yes, you can't exactly don't stop us so you can't detect it. And you know, it's really interesting because, you know, people have been saying to me recently that like, Athena, you don't need to rush out of this, you don't need to try and force yourself to be okay. You can feel what you need to feel, you don't need to be okay. But that's my default setting. It's to push to become okay again. And it's really interesting that in that moment, I've never seen her in that way before, but he saw it in her. where he was able to just go, take a breath. He's like, you're hurting and I can see it. And it was just so interesting. And so we obviously unpacked that and I won't go into too much detail because it's very private for her, but we unpacked it. And then she messaged me to be like, this is what my block has been. This is what's been stopping me. And now I know that I can really use that to my advantage. And she goes, I didn't even know that was my block. Like I've had to literally do that in order to learn it. And now I can go forward. So when we think about this notion of it's deeper than mindset, this is what I'm talking about. I like to talk about the subconscious because you know this notion about Alice, you know, and you, I would love to hear your opinions about this one. You know, when you hear these notions about people that go, just manifest it, like just manifest it, it will come to you. Just manifest it. Tell me, give it to me, Alice, what's your opinion? Right, so I was that person and I was like, yeah, I'm so good at manifesting. read all the books. So just for context, when I was younger, I did suffer really badly with my mental health. So from 15 to 25, was eating disorder, severe eating disorder, self harm, trying to take my life and... when I discovered personal development in my early twenties and this was what kicked stemmed, kicked stemmed, that's not English, but you know, my love affair with like neuroscience and understanding my brain, I realised I didn't have to be a victim and I could change my circumstance and my mindset. then I discovered books like a lot of people did. The Secret. Manifesting. Oh, amazing. Create a vision board. All that is good, but it misses a key ingredient. Like it scratches the surface, but it didn't go deep enough for me. So there I spent 10, 15 years just trying to like manifest stuff. And don't get me wrong, sometimes it worked. Like there was times I was manifesting a new job and I would visualize myself, you know, rocking the interview. I know exactly what I'm wearing, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I would get the job. But it's more than that. Manifesting actually is taking action. And I love this idea now more about like the co-creation between you and the universe. And if you're, know, it's not just universe, it could be like God or whatever your preferences are, but I like the term universe. So I was been listening a lot to Kathleen Cameron. I thought what was really interesting to her is that she was saying like, I've manifested this new body. She was severely overweight and now she's getting in shape. And I thought, you didn't manifest it, did you? You just went to the gym for times a week and healthy and then was like that is manifesting that's the action part of law of attraction like it's the action part and I think that hasn't been talked about enough because I think the secret and books like that are great but it didn't go into enough detail on how and it came across as write yourself a check create a vision board you know visualize it before you go to bed and jobs are good and I think I was very much in that camp and it's only in the last year or so that proper post the post divorce actually when my life changed that I've now been like no you've got to get off your booty Alice and take more action and go for these things that you're going for so I've had people come to me whilst I've been back in England and they've gone you know how have you got in the media how have you landed these speaking opportunities have you you know i've been i'm just gonna do a book collaboration on adhd you know people are like how's that happen you know how did you manifest it you know you're like so i'm a vision board yeah but I also took action. I reached out to people or you know I put myself out there and stuff and I think yeah I'm very on my high horse about this one because I'm probably very annoyed at myself subconsciously for not realizing that in my 20s and early 30s and now I'm late 30s pushing 40 going oh man I wish I understood this earlier but yeah I think the action part of manifestation is so important. Hmm beautifully said I love that and obviously I know you and I know the amount of action you take like you know when I'm speaking to you and you're literally like I've reached out to this person and I've reached out to this person and You know you're so on it Alice like you really are and you're so proactive in it as well like you literally are Queen action-taker and I love it and I take such inspiration from that and I think you're right I think you've got to have the vision and you do have to think this is what I want. This is what I'm looking for But at the same time, what are you going to do to implement it? And I'd tell you that, I tell you a similarity I find in this, and I wasn't intending on creating this similarity, but I think it's important I just mention it in this moment. Cause of course it is a property podcast. You know, I see the, and actually related to business coaching as well. I see so many people who have this moment and we call it, when I speak to Actile, we call it the euphoria moment where you literally go through this cycle of thinking this course is the answer to my problems. This course is literally, they've managed to do it. Therefore, if I join this person, I can be who they are. If I join this no money down course and I pay this money, because I've paid this money, this must be the answer to all my prayers and I'm suddenly going to be getting my first rent, trend deal, my first deal sourcing, and I can pull all my money back because they told me I would. And it is not true. It just isn't. So what... What you need to do is you need to be the driver of your own destiny. You got to drive the car. You're literally the only person that can do it. And I always say to people, I can take you to the water, but you're the one who's got to drink it. Like I can only go so far. So if I'm asking you to do action steps and you tell me why you haven't done the action steps, there's lots of different circumstances. Of course there is. But at the same time, There's only so many times that you can keep telling yourself why you haven't done something instead of why you should do it. And so you're right. think, I think if you can get the right ingredients of let's call it manifestation, subconsciousness and action and implementation, quite frankly, I think you've got the winning formula right there. Yeah, yeah, and this is why I always say I'm really big and bending the spiritual with the strategy. It's like mixing the woo with the do. Like anything that I do, I will blend in that manifestation. You know, what's your big vision? Tap into that future you. I love vision boarding. I love doing visualization sessions with people like my business branch and bubbles, that event that I've got coming out. You know, we're gonna be doing this manifestation part. But then what's the action that we need to take? So there needs to be some success mapping, there needs to be some strategy with it as well. You can't just write a vision board and go, right, that's 2026 sorted, well done. What actions are you gonna take? Yeah, absolutely, you gotta have both. I that. Do know, I've never heard someone say the woo with the do. I love that the woo with the do. I'll take that. And do you know what people have been asking me? I know. And do you know what? Just to say people have been asking me about this recently because they're like, Oh, Athena, like, are you going down more of this like spirituality route at the moment? And you know, lots of people sort of asked me lots of questions as it were. And I don't even begin to pretend that I know about spirituality. There are people out there that know much more than I do. If anything, I'm learning from them. But for me, I think you have the right to call whatever you're wanting to do to develop yourself in a positive way. think you have the right to call it whatever you want to call it. So some people call it woo, some people call it spirituality. For me, I've decided to call mine healing because for me, this whole process has been about healing for me. And I have been a person who has Literally my whole life, like my entire life has been so focused about around being the top of the leaderboard at school, the top of the leaderboard within my old business, going up the ranks, becoming director. Well, that was the plan by the way, I never got there because of COVID, but that's where I would have ended up. And I've been a high achiever my whole life, living in my masculine energy, all of that. And I think what happened was, was now I'm beginning to realise I had disguised so much of what actually was going on underneath me and when I did the m Imposter Syndrome with with Act R, by the way, if you haven't listened to that go and listen to it, it's the Girls and Property podcast with Act R and Imposter Syndrome and Limiting Beliefs. I had no idea he was going to do it, but he literally psychoanalyzed me on the podcast and one of the questions that was like the crux of it, like the absolute crux of it, and this is the work that I'm now doing at the moment and what I ask a lot of people and I think a lot of people struggle with is this notion of are we enough? Am I enough? And I think that what he basically was able to pull out of me, which I had no idea about, I had no idea about, was the reason that I am the way I am and I've been pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing my whole life is because I've never quite felt enough. And then he sort of said to me, enough for who? And that's the work that I'm now doing. It's like, who is, what is this notion of enough? What is this notion of, of being enough for somebody? And is it not enough for me? Or is it I'm not enough for what I believe is enough that someone has instilled in me from a young age? Is it related to my parents? Who is it related to? And so for me, I'm now going... bit though, isn't it? Because... one looks at that. It's unlocking it exactly. So I'm now going into this notion of healing. And do you know what? I think it's one of the best things everyone can do. And I'll tell you why. I think you then become literally unfuckable. I think you become unstoppable because I'm telling you, nobody can then trigger me because I've been triggered by a few things that have happened this year. And I've often thought to myself, why did that trigger you? Why did that trigger you in that way? And actually, As soon as I unlock and I heal and I do all this work on myself and I go within, I think I'm so excited, Alice, honestly, because I think that now is the time to do the work to almost go to the next level. And I said in a post, just like I don't know one some nuggets or gold coins to take you to the next level it's like unlock two levels And I want to know what you think about this, because I think you're going to like this one. I think you're going to like it. So basically talking about mindset and talking about subconscious and deeper level, I was listening to Jay Shetty's podcast. Have you ever listened to Jay Shetty's podcast before? I loved his audiobook but I don't think I've actually listened to some of his stuff on YouTube actually. Yeah. So I really like Jay Shetty. I'm really into him at the moment and listening to him. And he did a podcast with Emma Watson recently. And it found me at the perfect time. And I was listening to this podcast. And I remember I was on the tube and I must've looked like a right nutter because I was on my own listening to this podcast. And I was like, yes. And I said it out loud. I was like, yes, exactly. And I swear London is just thinking I'm crazy now. But literally he said, oh, literally, but he said, in order to go three steps forward, You have to go three steps deep. Yeah. said that. And I thought to myself, I'm at a point now where I cannot go forward because I need to go deep. Yeah. Yeah. uh interesting. And that's why it's more than mindset, isn't it? Mindset makes it feel like it is just like positive mindset and just, you know, in the morning, do your gratitude journal and like, have a good day. But it's so much deeper than that. Everybody has got wounds. Everybody's got trauma. Everybody's got something that upset them and they don't know why and they've blocked it out and they buried it deep in their subconscious. And those are the things that you've got to uncover. And that's why mindset actually isn't enough because it is about subconscious and the blockers and yeah, I totally agree. funny as well, feel about not enough, because that's my one as well. So growing up never thinking enough for my mum, being mixed race, undiagnosed ADHD, just not feeling good enough, always getting in trouble with school, obviously not good enough there. And then you just carry that into your young adulthood. And I think, especially in your 20s are hard anyway. And then it's not until sort of late 30s post divorce now that I'm trying to go. no I am enough and I'm good enough for me and I've got very big ambitions and goals but that's okay they're mine and I'm doing it because I want to do it not because someone else is telling me to do it and that's totally different from that old masculine energy I used to have of doing it probably to try and get validation oh Hmm, it's interesting, isn't it? Like you just saying that you feel the same way and you you just said of course all the things that you've been through and it's, I've always found it so interesting like this, like, because for example, Alice, you know, I could sit there all day, look at you dead in the eyes over a cocktail and be like, girl, you are more than enough. Look at you. You're successful. You're gorgeous. You're amazing. Look at everything you've created and you'll probably sit there and go, Thank you, like that's really kind of you to say and appreciate it. But you don't really believe them because there's something that you haven't quite worked on yourself. What you've actually got to do is you've got to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and say it to yourself and believe it. And that's when you become your true self, when you actually believe that. And I think there's so many women listening to that. Yeah, it's bloody hard. Hmm. Hmm it does and you know what I always think it's a wonderful way to start things because don't get me wrong like today's Monday for example and you know I had Lorraine Thomas on the podcast and I remember she said you can choose to like Mondays she said to me you know if you got the right mindset just choose to like Mondays like you can choose an ice cream flavor she says choose to like Mondays and I really took that from that podcast because for me now you know I get to podcast on a Monday and so for me I get to talk to incredible women on a Monday And so I love Mondays because I do the podcast and I really do think that you can take steps to really choose to actually choose the mindset you're going to have. But I tell you what, for me, one of the biggest things I've noticed, and again, I'd love to get your opinion on this, try and help as many people as we can listening to this today. My mindset and my environment is massively dictated by the people that I'm with in a space and time. So for example, I'm a massive energy person as you are, we always talk about energy. I feel people's energies. And so if I'm in a space or a time or a process where that person's energy is low and I can't feed off of them, or I've got to almost use my energy to pull them up, I find that incredibly draining. And I find it really difficult to then have a positive mindset because they're not giving me their positive mindset. So how much does environment play a factor in this? Hmm it is. What would you say to somebody at this moment? What would your advice be for somebody who's listening to this? Recognize this what we're speaking about and going do you know what my environment right now is actually draining me. Like if we talk about radiators, know energy drainers and fillers as it were and radiators like what can they do if they are in an environment at the moment that is more draining them? What value, what help can we give to them right now? Get new kids. I love that Hmm. I love that. Can I give a really silly example of this to kind of give a small silly example to help anyone listening to this? So for me, I, you know, one of the things that I think is not a healthy habit and I come back to habits again that I do or did I should say is this notion that I go on my phone in the evenings when actually I'm trying to relax. So I could be watching Married at First Sight. I could be watching Celebrity Traitors. I could be watching Guilty Pleasure, EastEnders, Don't Tell Anyone. You know, it's this notion where I should be actually relaxing but I'm not. What's actually happening is I've been on my phone, I'm looking at my phone, I'm scrolling, I'm responding to messages that haven't been responded to. mean my unanswered DMs at the moment gives me a little bit of anxiety, I'm not gonna lie. So I think right I'll just do like 10 a night but you know what I've done? I have made a small change in my life. I have decided that I have to be active when I'm watching TV. It's just part of my personality. can't just sit, I can't sit and watch TV at my fingers. My brain has to be doing something. And so I've been using the phone as my cracks for that. I've put my phone down and guess what I'm doing instead. And I'm absolutely loving it is I've bought, not quite. I'll be dreadful at knitting, but I've bought myself a colouring in book. And I have been, I've got these most beautiful colouring in pencils, really, really gorgeous. And I've been colouring in this book and I've been doing one a night as I'm watching TV. And I put my phone on aeroplane mode, I've been colouring in and my God, this small change has made the world of difference to me. I'm calming my mind, I'm present in the moment. It's better for my eyes, quite frankly, it's better for my creativity. So when Alice is saying to what you can do to change your environment, it can be as simple as that. Oh I am... Oh my god, I'm like a super fan. I've watched it since I was nine years old, but that's kind of a secret, but now I'm not so much a secret, but I'm like a super fan. What part was he auditioning for? He's not wrong to be fair. my God, I love how you were third in line. You're like, you cheeky little git. Okay, if he gets the part, you have to message me and be like, this is my friend. my God, I'm obsessed with it. I can't believe I've just admitted that on the podcast, but it's true. I can't lie. I'm obsessed with it. Any other EastEnders fans out there, please DM me and make me feel a bit of love. Otherwise I'm just out here on my own. Alice, I have loved today's podcast. think it's such an important one to have because don't get me wrong. I love doing like the strategy calls and I love talking about flips and BRR and venture ends and all of that. But I truly mean it. And I truly, truly, truly mean it. There is no point doing any of it, girls. Like there's, and guys that listens to this. There's no point in doing it. If you have not worked this bit out yet. And as soon as you work this bit out, the subconscious element out, I'm telling you, you will literally fly and you will be head above and shoulders above the rest. Alice, quick one for you. So I have been asking certain people on this podcast a very specific question and I'm only asking specific people that I think, wonder what their answers are. And I tell you what happened, why I'm going to ask you this question. This question was asked to me on a live that I did with somebody and it literally stopped me in my tracks for about three minutes. Like I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to. sort of think and I was like, I need to ask this question to the people that listen, that come onto this podcast, but very specific people. So I'm going to ask you a question. I know you don't know what it is and I'd love to get your thoughts on this. So my question to you is this, to finish the podcast, what's one question that you wish that someone would have asked you that nobody has ever asked you? that no one has ever asked you. Yeah. Hmm. That's such a good point that you've just made, Alice. for anyone listening to this, this, cause we can, we can do another podcast on that. mean, it's such an important topic. I mean, for anyone listening to this, that, that literally feels the same way. And, and there's mixed race, know, mine's a little bit different because of course I've got the Greek and the English in me. And so my name's Athena remember. So when I was at school, I was bullied because I had frizzy hair and my name was Athena and I got told this, like I'm white basically, Alice, you know what mean? And I got told to go home to my country by kids at school, like literally because of my name and I had frizzy hair. They might go home to your country. you know, people look at me and they don't necessarily see the Greek, they see the English, but at the same time, my mum looks Greek and my mum is much darker than I am. And so I totally get this, but if you were to actually... say to anyone listening to this who has gone, Alice, feel you, like you've hit the nail on the head, I totally resonate, like what would you want to say to them? You know, I absolutely love this and I genuinely think we should do a whole episode on this because I'll tell you why. I'd love to talk to you about this. And the reason I'd love to talk to you about it is one, I've always thought that for me, when someone said to me to find home and you know, I'm between places at the moment as it were, I'm currently at home with my mum. for me, I think home is a feeling as opposed to a physical place. I've always said this, for me, it's always been a feeling. of, I don't care where I am, as long as I'm with certain people or I feel a certain way and my one comes around safety and security more than anything else. Do I feel safe? Do I feel secure? And as a result of that, I feel like I'm at home no matter where I am. And so I would, that would be sort of my little nugget of wisdom, if you like, from that conversation. And do you know what? I'm gonna tell you something that you don't know about me. And no one's ever asked me about this. And I haven't done this before. This is the first time I'm to talk about it, but why I'd love to talk to you more about this. My advertising degrees in marketing and advertising communications. And I wrote a dissertation all about how it was actually Chinese women specifically, how Chinese women actually um sort of adapt to beauty cultures within a Western environment. And I remember I used to read all this literature about the fact that they used to say that they used to, you know, um wanting to, I can't remember the words I used, but there were specific words like association or whatever it was. But it was about the fact that they was, the literature was saying that they wanted to fit in, that they wanted to fit into their environment and be like us. And so I went against all the literature. I literally said, no, this is all rubbish. And I went and I stayed with Chinese students at university. And I learned that they ate their own food. hung with their people. actually specifically like Chanel, for example, did like a white product for makeup that they used to wear. They used to wear contact lenses that used to make their eyes bigger, their pupils bigger because that's what they were. And I said, all the literature is wrong. And actually this is what the truth is. And you know, that got published. won the award for the, again, high achiever, all this crap. won the award for the best dissertation and I was invited to do a PhD by my university and they were going to pay for me to do a PhD to take this notion forward. But I said, no, I'm done with education now. But I've been so interested about how cultures and people within cultures adapt in their countries. So I think we should do another podcast all about this because I'm actually quite interested. Right. Right. my goodness. Okay. We've just unlocked something. See, this is why I love the podcast. And I love that. I know, but I love the fact that we brought everyone into this podcast as opposed to just having that drink between us where we would have come to this conclusion. Everyone has managed to sit, you know, driving or have that drink with us to be like, gals, I've just listened to you and I can't wait for the next one. So Alice, people are always going to want to get in contact with you, chat to you. I'm sure a lot of them already know you. Where's the best place for people to find you? Gorgeous, love it. And as always guys, I am Athena Dobson, underscore official and girls and property on Instagram. Come say hi. I'm also on LinkedIn trying to be a bit better, but Instagram is where I hang out. So do that and send us a DM if you've enjoyed this episode as well. And if you've, if you've related to anything that we've spoken about as well, we'd love to hear from you. And then just a quick few reminders. So the first one is, is don't forget we have the, um the Christmas pub, no, no, Athena, it's not a Christmas party. Remember that. It's a winter party that is going to be coming up on Saturday the 15th of November. So it's happening in Birmingham, Saturday 15th of November. And I can't explain this to you. So people have asked me questions such as, Athena, I'm not in the property space. Can I still come? I'm just starting out in property. Can I still come? Yes, yes, yes. This is a party. This is bringing together women within the industry through business and property. So please, please do come to the party and have a dance. There's been so much that's happened at the end of this year. Let's all have fun together. Let's all bring women together and just dance the night away. So if you're thinking you've been on the fence, just DM me the word party and I will send you your exclusive invite for community members who are a Girls and Property community as part of the membership. You of course come for free for non-community and you want to see what it's all about. Please, please come along. It's only £49 for a ticket. So a no brainer, hopefully, but that will be Birmingham Saturday, the 15th of November. Would absolutely love to see you there. So Alice, I'd love to leave you with the parting words for today's episode as it were. So what would you love to say to the listeners? Beautiful, beautifully said. There you go, that's it. So have the most amazing week everyone. Let us know what you're up to, DM us, enjoy wherever you are, stay in contact and remember to always do the work on yourself because if you do the work on yourself, you'll be the best version of yourself that you can be and then you'll become absolutely unstoppable. Have a great week everyone, speak to you soon. Take care, bye.