Inside The UK's First Key Worker Only Co Living Scheme With Gemma Parsons

Imagine this. Shift work finishing at 4am. Coming home to a house share where nobody understands why you sleep during the day. Nurses, paramedics and firefighters keeping this country running, with nowhere decent to actually rest.

Gemma Parsons saw that gap and decided to fill it herself.

In this episode of Girls in Property I'm joined by Gemma Parsons, who is behind the UK's first key worker only co living scheme. Gemma came from emergency services, so she lived the problem before she ever tried to solve it. What she's built is a scheme designed entirely around shift patterns, mental health and the reality of what it takes to look after people who spend their lives looking after everyone else.

We get into the real detail too. How she managed a major renovation while still holding down a full time job. Her first HMO in Liverpool and everything that taught her. The funding wall she hit with bridging finance, how she moved to private investment, and what it actually takes to build trust with investors when you're still relatively early in your journey.

This one is about purpose as much as it is about property. Gemma is honest about resilience, about burnout, about checking in with yourself when the pressure is on. If you've ever wondered whether your property business could stand for something bigger than the numbers, this conversation will light something in you.

Have a listen and let me know what you think.

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Transcript

0:00

Good morning everyone. Welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property podcast. So I've got something slightly different for you all this morning. Something really, really interesting. And I need to talk to you also about the story of how all of this came about because I think the story of it's actually really beautiful and going to inspire quite a lot of you today. But what's really interesting is that we talk a lot about HMOs and we talk a lot about housing development and you know the types of people in which we're actually going to be getting into these. And you know, a lot of people they do their rent to rents, they look at um getting in professionals, When people sometimes look to do their service combination, they look to get into contractors. But this particular person really caught my eye because she's actually creating the UK's first key worker-only co-living housing scheme. So when we think about key workers, this is for police, fire, ambulance, NHS, teachers, prison officers, which I don't know about you guys, but I think is just so so interesting and so necessary, and also with Purpose, and she's of course going to share her story of this today and why she's decided to do this. But imagine it the UK's first key worker-owning co-living housing scheme. So, what a conversation we are gonna have today! And without further ado, I'm so excited to introduce you to you all, Gemma Parsons. Hey Gemma. Of course, of course, right, we have so much to get through on this podcast because. First of all, I find this really, really interesting. So talk to us about this whole UK's first, you know, keyworker, co-living housing scheme. Like, what I really want to know is a bit more about you and kind of your story and how you even came to do something like this. Because listen, I tell people to focus on a niche all the time. I'm like, what's your niche? What's your story? What's your strength? You know, and you've actually gone and done this. So can you please start by introducing yourself and sort of telling everyone a bit about you and how you came to actually start this project. Sure, so yeah, I'm Gemma. I am the director of Black Flamingo Homes, which I set up a couple of years ago. I have also been a key worker in the emergency services for the last 20 years. I'm still doing that now. That is my full-time day job. within the emergency services, there's quite a lot of criteria that you have to follow depending on which ones you're in. And a lot of that is around housing and declaring who you live with. And over my 20 years, I've health shared quite a lot, either with flatmates or in shared homes. uh And you have to declare everybody that's in that home. And it doesn't matter whether that's family, friends, strangers, and they all have to be security checked to the same level that you are. And over the years, I found it can be extremely stressful. uh especially if you're moving in with people you don't really know trying to get their details. People don't obviously want to hand over all their personal intimate details ah and it makes life very tricky and it can be really stressful. And I've had times as well where I've been trying to rent out a room to someone and again, you end up trying to naturally filter adverts. uh What do people do? Are they DBS checked? Are they in the emergency services? Do they have this level of clearance? What do they have? Am I going to have a problem? Because ultimately you can be told you can't live with those people. And I've had colleagues before that have been told they can't live with family members. They've got to move out of the family home. ah You know, these things take time as well. So you could find that you've put down money and you've moved in somewhere and then you're told, no, you can't live with them because of that one person. It's not generally because of you. It's because of somebody else in that household. So it becomes a very stressful em situation and especially if you're then trying to rent a room and you're thinking, can I manage this rent on my own if I don't find someone suitable? And I know lots of people over the years that have all gone through this and we just try and filter naturally. And it came up to my turn this again of having to redo all that process because you have to redo it maybe for certain jobs or over a certain timeframe or if situations change. And I was just filled with that dread and I was already sort of starting my property journey and looking to go down the HMO route. ah And I just suddenly thought, I wonder if there is anything actually out there that links people together. Like I haven't found it here, but maybe somewhere else in the country there is something that does help people. And I had a look and did some research and I couldn't find anything. and I've spoken to people in different services all around the country and found that everybody's kind of having the same issue. And then that kind of led me on to looking at the NHS who some hospitals provide some sort of accommodation, but it is pretty grim. um I knew doctors, people that were staying in them for one night and just saying, get me out of here. just, for my mental health, I cannot stay in this room. and then go and do a 14 hour shift. So they're in the same boat as well. Prison officers have the same sort of criteria as well, having to declare everyone. And it just makes life very difficult. I spoke to some teachers, that's now coming up in teaching as well, especially if you work in the SEN environment and with very vulnerable children, again, they want to know who you're living with. So. But anybody that's kind of single or house sharing, flat sharing, depending on your circumstances, it becomes a real stress and you're already doing a stressful role. You might be commuting as well. And I just thought there's, there's gotta be a way to like make life easier for people. So I started, like I say, speaking with people, getting some information, hearing horror stories of junior doctors who have to travel around the country to try and sign off certain uh parts of their training. So they're going to hospitals in areas they don't know for a period of time, staying in houses with no connections there and living in these environments where people in the next room are having mental breakdowns or using drugs or whatever. And then they're expected to go and do their really serious job uh for a long period of time. And the mental health impact on these people and these professions Again, when I started looking into it, you know, the rates of people suffering with depression, anxiety, serious mental health issues, the suicide rates, they're all like double any other profession. And I just thought, why is nobody doing this? Like we all just muddle through. So I thought, well, I'm going to give it a go. Let's see if we can set this up and start. So. I was in the process of buying a property that I was going to turn into an HMO. And um that's what it has now developed into. And it has been designed all around these professions, shift workers again. If you're a shift worker trying to house share with non-shift workers, it is generally a bit of a disaster ah because people just don't understand, you're eating your dinner at 7 a.m. and you then try and sleep in the day. people aren't always very considerate of it if they haven't lived that kind of life. So the whole concept has now become about key worker only homes. One, because then people are security cleared. You're still gonna have to declare them, but the stress is taken away because they've already been checked. There shouldn't be any issues for you. You've then got people that understand your working lifestyle, uh understand that the the comings and goings of shift work. There's also the element of trying to sort of build a small community within these homes of support and friendship. ah Because again, you know, we're in a loneliness epidemic at the moment, you know, and especially after like COVID times and that not everybody wants to live on their own anymore. ah So it's about trying to solve a lot of issues and relieve a lot of stress for people because ultimately, I believe that, you know, if you If you take away the stress of people's homes and housing and give them somewhere safe and secure that they can rest and recoup, you may not solve their other problems, but you certainly make them more manageable for them to deal with. So uh the whole property is now based around that, you know, with blackout blinds, there's no white space because that can again be very triggering for a lot of emergency service workers ah and very clinical. ah It's eco-friendly as well. So there's a lots of that's been done around that to try and uh keep the bills low over time as well. ah And just creating a real homely environment for people um rather than just some of the very standard, basic, mundane HMOs that unfortunately people know now and haven't got the greatest reputation. So yeah, and hopefully, you know, I'm gonna replicate it around the country and try and... relieve that stress and that hassle for as many people as possible. Mm, beautiful, absolutely love that. I have so many questions. I have so much to sort of ask you about. So what's really interesting is you made an excellent point there. So obviously I used I used to have HMOs, right? And I used to actually have this quite a lot. And if I'm completely honest with you, I didn't really have a solution at the time. I didn't really have an answer to the question, which was we used to mix people that were on shift work and non-shift work. And you are a hundred percent correct. It caused friction within the HMOs, within the houses because and and the shifts always changed as well. Because and it never remained the same and and there were times where somebody actually was moving out because they were a shift worker because the people in just didn't understand and the people who obviously did a a normal shift, a normal day, were like, Well, that's their decision to do the shift work and there was never this like we could never quite get them to just agree to be respect. Yeah. they both almost felt that if you like, they were all almost entitled in their own way within this. And I tried to explain, you are sharing here. And as I said, I'll admit I didn't I didn't have the solution at the time. You know, had actually this been around, I might have gone, actually, there is there is this solution because this was about two years ago. So, first of all, I completely have seen it firsthand where this has been an issue within this. And let's face it, you know, a lot of people who do these types of jobs aren't necessarily in relationships because it's difficult to have. Relationship in this. A lot of them do have their own jobs, sorry, their own that they're on their own and therefore have to go into HMS and things like that. Um, another thing that you said that I really resonated with is you're right, when when you do such a difficult job, like being in the services, as it were, to come home and feel like where you live is your home. is so important because let's face it when your nervous system and when you don't feel like that um you can't sleep and we need you guys to sleep we need you as doctors and nurses and ambulance staff and teachers and police force we need you to sleep because we need you to make good decisions we need you to um make sure that nothing's done when you're tired for example you need you to sleep so I think that Creating a home is one of the most I think it's like the one of the biggest privileges you can give to another person is to create a safe home that a person can live in. And I've actually had somebody called Caroline Paterson on the phone before where I've had this conversation with her, which is in the past I've sometimes sort of said this notion of purpose over profit, but actually she corrected me and she said, no, the two can go hand in hand where you can actually have purpose and you can create profit because it's not a charity at the end of the day, it is a business. You run a business, as it were. So let me let me ask you th this then, Jamma. So have you ever done anything like this before regarding building out a HMO experience in property? What is your experience? So I set up Black Flamingo Homes just over two years ago and I bought a bitelet. That was my first one. ah I've had property myself that I've owned and done up and decorated and that sort of thing, but this was the first business property. ah And that got renovated and rented out to a housing authority that housed families. that are quite vulnerable and a lot of them have escaped domestic violence and things like that. So um that was my first project. And to be honest, I kind of thought I was going to do the same thing again. um I was quite hands-on with that project. So I was there smashing out bathrooms and kitchens and all of that sort of stuff. Loved it. um We found some hidden things, as you always do, and uh rectified them and... turned it into a really nice three-bedroom house and there's been a family in there ever since. And I just, I was looking for the next one really and then I got approached by a friend who had said to me that she had inherited this property and would I be interested in buying it? And uh it's not too far from the other one. They're both in Liverpool and... I decided to have a look and I was like, my goodness, this would be a really great HMO because for me, the HMO route was maybe sort of two or three years down the line, learn a bit more, uh but I felt like it was too good an opportunity to pass up and it was a really good location. It's right between Liverpool's sort of city centre and where the main hospitals are. So that was kind of my main thought process of, well, maybe I can sort something out with the hospital. uh and then of course everything has grown from then. So this is my first HMO and it is quite a big build project as well. So um I've taken on quite a lot. I'm probably a bit mad to be honest because I'm still working full time at the same time. And then I traveled 250 miles to go and see what's going on and get stuck in. And this week I was painting to newly plastered rooms and bits and pieces on my days off. So it's a lot to manage and there's a lot going on, but yeah, a lot to learn as well. Well let's just let's just not skip over that bit. So just repeat that. So you've of course got a very, very demanding role that you do, your your job, and then you're currently not living in Liverpool then. So the projects are in Liverpool. Where do you where whereabouts are you based then? Right, so you're Brighton, plus yeah, you're Brighton, and it's all the way up in Liverpool. So when you're not working, you know, hard with with what it is that you do, what were you saying that you were doing on your days off? So I was up there in Liverpool on my days off painting the walls of the newly plastered rooms that have been done. yeah, I live in Brighton. My day job is in London. So I commute four hours a day to London for work. And then after that, after work last week, generally on a Wednesday, I get a train up to Liverpool and I'm there for a couple of days. And yeah, I was painting in 40 degree heat, or whatever it was this last few days, and then back. to try and have a day or so off and then back to it. How incredible is that? And I think not enough people talk about this. You know, they they don't talk about the absolute sheer tenacity, hard work that you really have to do in order to make this work. And I think not enough people actually talk about this within this spectrum. They kind of paint this whole dream, as it were. But essentially at the beginning, you end up having two jobs because it lit literally it's like having two jobs. And it is not for the faint-hearted. And I say this often, it's not for the faint-hearted because there is no, there is no reward without the risk. There is no reward without the hard work. And I think so many people want this whole instant gratification or to believe, if I'm honest with you, I don't think they do it wrongly. I think they want to believe the gurus. They want to believe that it that they can do it in the space of you know minimal effort and 90 days, and it just doesn't work like that. You know, you're you're a great example, Gemma, of a person who works incredibly hard and who and who has gone out there and done this. So, just on this topic, then. So, your experience before was the Bitalette, you're now doing the HM. Just before this podcast, I hit record, you were telling me about the reality actually of what it's like actually learning about the HMOs and managing them. So give everyone an idea of the fact that, for example, you were actually planning on having an open day on, I believe, the 1st of August, which I love by the way, fantastic idea to welcome people to come and show people what it was that you were doing. But you've had to pivot and you had to postpone. So tell people the reality of what you're going through right now. Yeah, the reality is, you know, I'm working pretty much seven days a week and, you know, apart from doing sort of being on site, you've got all your social media to do, you've got your emails, you've got phone calls, you've got all these other things, you know, there's a lot to it. It's not just a case of turning up and looking around the site and oh, that's lovely and off you go. But what's happened with the, the grand opening was scheduled because originally we had about a 12 week timeframe for the build project. So, I'd scheduled in this grand opening, which was a chance to invite a lot of people sort of from the property world, some potential investors, some ah magazines that I'm hoping to get into and different people that maybe sort of liked my idea, but maybe can't quite visualize what I'm doing. So it was a chance to show it all off and be like, this is what I've created. And, you know, to the people that said, no, you can't do this. It was a bit of a, I have, and Then what happened was, you you start a build project and it's a Victorian house. You don't quite know what you're going to uncover with all the, you know, the best surveys and checks in the world. But, you know, we found that the loft room, we took down the existing walls of the loft conversion and found that there had been, there'd obviously been a fire at some point and a load of the beams were scorched and they just boarded up around it. ah So the decision was to obviously take the whole floor out and then there was no insulation in the loft ah ceiling either so we were going to lose a bit of height so we just decided to drop the whole ceiling by like a step. ah So that takes time and you you guys are then doing that instead of moving on to the next things that you were expecting to be doing. ah There was that situation and then the basement, which has never been used, is going to be a utility and cinema space ah that needed full tanking. It was just before the hot weather, so the tanking materials just took longer to dry and you have to do it in a very slow, lower, know, levelling, layering process and it just took longer to dry out. ah And then we've had the windows going in the shared kitchen, some windows and doors that were changing around and there's no lintels above any of the existing. So they've all had to be propped up. it, know, putting a lintel in is not a massive job, but it's the time factor of now they've to go and buy that and then they've got to come back and then they've got to fit it. And then, you know, you've lost a day that you otherwise thought something else was happening. it's been quite... stressful process, I'm not going to lie, over the last two weeks. And, you know, luckily I've got very good contractors who I have a very good relationship with and so there's, you know, there is quite a lot of trust and good communication there, but they can only go as fast as they can go. So rather than have an event that was, you know, half done or three quarters done, I just had to make the hard decision to change it. And I think it will work out better in the long run because people that maybe couldn't come before will be hopefully be able to come at the end of September when we're going to try again. um But yeah, I just, I just thought if people aren't really sure of what I'm doing, I need to show them the finished result. I can't show them something. And also I'm not going to be able to really celebrate it if I'm thinking, well, that's not done and that's not done. wish that had been done for this or whatever. yeah, I made the call and I'm glad I did. There's a few people already that have said to me, great, I can make the new date now. So I feel like it has worked in my favour. I was probably a bit keen with setting up the date, know, hoping that the timeframes would all be ah much quicker than they are, but that's the nature of property and um Yeah, fingers crossed it'll be the end of September and it'll be a really good celebration of everything and then it'll be done and ready to ten and out. How incredible that you're doing that as well and really and really showing it off, you know, showing all your hard work, showing what it is that you've done. And I absolutely love that, love this idea of yours. And also, this is a really good example, Gemma, of pivoting in life, you know. Sometimes we have these best intentions, which by the way, I'm all for setting a deadline, setting a date, setting a deadline. People will tell you Athena always has these targets in her head and she always does it. And sometimes I achieve it, sometimes I don't. And it's the strength comes from recognizing that it's not a failure, but a pivot. And that's actually where the real strength comes from. question for you. I was just listening to you talk there about all the things that are happening. I bet some listeners are probably thinking the same thing, which is what I'm thinking, which is how have you actually gone about funding this, this sort of this big project? So I have taken all bridging and development finance for the whole project. because my money was tied up in the buy-to-let and I wasn't in a position to be able to take any money out of it when I started this because it was too soon. So I was looking for 100 % funding really. And that's where a lot of the no's came in. a lot of people were not willing to do that. um There has been money then that I've put in obviously things like the architects and certain parts of the uh permitted development fees and all these other things that go alongside were all funded by me and by the buy-to-let really. uh But in terms of actually buying the property and the development work that is all bridging and development finance and that on its own has been a massive challenge. um I totally underestimated how difficult the development side of it would be to get the bridging. so much. That was quite straightforward, really. But the company in terms of the development finance, they made me jump through hoops and they actually delayed my sale by about four months. So I was quite lucky that I was buying from somebody that I knew because I don't think anybody else would have stuck around that long to be honest. ah And you know, I kept giving them staff, the goalposts kept changing. They were very fixated on a drop curb application for some reason that, you know, wasn't even part of what they were paying for. was an 800 pound thing that I was paying for. But for some reason, this held up the whole process as to whether I was getting a drop curb for about three weeks. I mean, it was incredibly frustrating. ah And then we finally got there, we're done, the build starts great. And now I have to deal with the company in terms of the draw down money that they give me in instalments, which, know, again, more hidden costs because now I have to have a surveyor come round every time. That's a 1200 pound bill each time that, you know, everyone forgot to mention. um yeah, the costs rack up very quickly. and you know I have to then get signed off and get the next pot of money and what actually happened this time is they decided that they didn't think I'd spent as much as I had spent and it wasn't as far on as they wanted it to be so they wouldn't give me the full amount I asked for so that was a bit of a kick in the face really because these things have been paid for you've got invoices you've got material stuff is there, but they have very strict criteria. I mean, they wouldn't into account a window that was there about to be fitted because it wasn't actually fitted. And I was like, it's there. It's obviously been paid for because it's there. yeah, it's, you know, if you haven't been through it before either as well, you're sort of on a bit of a like back foot because you're learning and they sniff out that you're new and... You know, it's all just another part of it that you've got to manage and try and go with it and a bit of juggling and try not to get too stressed about it in the meantime. Easier said than done. It it it is. And I know this story I I as in not your story, I know this story very, very well. I know the story of bridging. I know the story of when you got to pay twelve hundred pounds or whatever it is for like the surveyor to come out again and then and then you know, then they give you the drawdown, like I God. I know I know this. And also the other thing is is that when there are the delays, the stress then comes in terms of then the exit with the bridge as well at the end of it, like, you know, and then there's the time pressure and everything. The one thing I would say is it's one what's gonna be good about this is what I see time and time again is people start with a bridge because they they they don't really have the experience to show as it were with what it is they're doing. But I tell you what, you know, the second one and the third one, all day long you can get private finance. As soon as you start showing people the end result and what it is that you do, and I I bet you're already 10 steps ahead of this with me saying this, it's just for the listeners as well, is to start moving away from bridging. Save yourself a fortune, an absolute fortune, and moving into to to literally having a person whose soul's mission aligns with yours in terms of what it is that you're creating, a person who understands the mission and then literally becomes the bank themselves because it will it will provide purpose and profit for both of you at the same time. Um and speed my god speed yeah as well they decided they weren't going to give me the full amount of money and they still took three weeks. I'm like we're at a point now really in my original timescale I should be finished. I haven't even had my last drawdown like you haven't even been yet. So it's the impact of trying to explain to them as well that you not coming and you not booking me in as and when I say that I need to be booked in for. It has a knock on effect on the whole project, which has a knock on effect on them getting their money back as well. Like it's not beneficial to anybody, but it's just a slow process and it doesn't need to be really, but. I I I trust me, I I know, I have sent some very strongly worded emails before in my time to them explaining this this exact thing so I understand. What would you say then in terms of like because you've never done this before, you know, you decided to take on this project, which by the way, like I take my hat off to you, I think incredibly inspiring, Jimmy. I really, really do. What has what has been like I talk about this all the time, in terms of like your resources or like your transferable skills that you've then been able to use and adopt to a project like this? What what do you think have been your transferable skills in that? um Highly organized. You have to be, you know, like if you don't have... a million spreadsheets or lists and a diary, then you're in trouble basically. And um you've just got to keep on top of everything. um I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that the rest of my life is kind of on hold. mean, there's no time for anything else to be honest. This is the situation until this one is up and running and done and then we can take a little breather. ah But you have to be committed and yeah that organisation is key. And then you know I think communication as well. You've got to be able to speak with people. You've got to be able to listen and take advice. I'm the first person to say I have not done this before. I don't know everything. Tell me what you think. Let's have a discussion about this. Can we do this? Can we do that? What do you think? What have you done before? How did that work out? You know, you've got to take advice from people that have done it and that know, uh and just, you just got to get stuck in. You know, you can't start these things and then sort of sit back and hide away. You've got to be there and you've got to be on it and you've got to be asking questions and checking where things are at as well. Because as much as you have these great relationships, you can't be seen to be taking your foot off the pedal because you're the boss and you've to make sure it happens. So there's still that element to it as well, but obviously hopefully done in a friendly way and you build these great relationships along the way. And I'm very much about building my team and using the same people as I move forward and the connections that I'm making now will hopefully be people that I can use again in the next one. materials I can replicate, things that as I learn, I might be like, that didn't quite work, let's find a better way. And again, we keep replicating the great results. there's definitely got to be a team element to it. Although sometimes you do feel like a bit of a lone wolf out there, but you've got to have those people skills. You do. And you know what I'm gonna celebrate with with you, Gemma, as well. I think this is the perfect time to do it. Is just to give everyone a bit of a background in this, which is a a perfect you are a perfect example of this. I get messages all day, all day long from people saying that they want to come on this podcast, right? Like all day people go, hi Thino, I think it'll be great for your podcast because of this, this, this. And I remember the first time you ever messaged me ever saying I'd like to come on your podcast, in all honesty, Jemara, I was like, okay, good, you know, I'll I'll think about it. And I I think I said to you, I think I said to you, thanks very much for your message. Great, thanks. You know, I'll I'll let you know I'll I'll think about it, which is what I say to a lot of people, as it were. Just because it's just it just gets very, very busy. And then you message me again. And no, you didn't message me again, that's a lie. You tagged me in something. You actually tagged me in something, which I thought, what's she tagging me in? That's interesting. So I opened it and it was of you talking about what you were doing with this with this HMO project and the reason you were doing it and everything like that. I thought, that's interesting. And then I thought, okay, and and again I say to people that I start watching. So I started to notice you in that moment. I started to go, that's the person I'm gonna start noticing in the industry. Then you started posting some other bits, then you messaged me again saying, Hi, I'd I'd like to come on the podcast. I think I can have a really good conversation with you. And so now you've piqued my interest because now I like you as a person. Because you've no longer just sat there going, I asked Athena once, she said she'd come back to me, therefore that's the end of it. You now remind me of me, right? You now remind me of a person that doesn't take no for an answer. Goes, you almost like in the most beautiful way, Jemmy, you were almost like, you are going to notice me. You are going to say yes to me. You are going to invite me on your podcast. I'm not going to take no for an answer. And I really like that because it's with my personality, because that's how I behave with other people. So I'm and also, don't get me wrong, you actually have to have something interesting about you and interesting to say. So there was a beautiful relationship that happened there. And And I sort of messaged you and went, do you know what, Gemma? I went, all right, let's get you on, let's get you on the podcast. And you then told me about your your psych day that you were doing. And I said, you know what? This is perfect for the community. Perfect for the community. The girls are gonna love this. It's so important showing what they're doing. And it sort of all just came together in the most beautiful way. And here you are on the podcast. And I'm gonna celebrate you with that because I feel like there are different people in this world who can either sit on their laurels and go, I asked once and therefore the answer was no, therefore I'm not gonna ask again. Or there are people like you that go, No, I've got this mission, I've got this purpose, I'm gonna go and do that. So when you just had your transferable skills of communication, you know, tenacity, all of that, I'm like, absolutely. And I'm really gonna celebrate you for getting yourself on this podcast.

And I'll tell you this: 33:57

the other thing is if you want to get into magazines, right? My the beauty of my superpowers, if you like, is I'm very well connected. That is my superpower. So what I'm gonna do is I'm also gonna speak to people after I've come. off the podcast with you and I'm gonna go make some calls for you and try and get you into some magazines as well. Of course, because I think what you're doing is very, very important. And for me, my purpose is to connect good people with good people and get your name out there. So that one text, that one message that you sent on Instagram will always leads to a spiral effect as it were. So yeah, I think I think it's fantastic. And then I'm obviously celebrating you, I've just celebrated you. What would you say with girls and property that you are celebrating today? I think I am celebrating along the same lines, but I am celebrating having a really, really good network of people around me. That is what I'm celebrating because this last week, like I say, has been really, really difficult. And um I felt stressed that I haven't felt stressed like in forever. uh And I was a bit of a bit of a mess on Thursday and you know, the lovely people in my network and my group scooped me up and gave me a talking to and reminded me who I am and why I'm doing this and what it's all about. I've had, you know, I felt so bad about sending out the messages, can't, you know, postponing the 1st of August. And because I knew some people had already booked train tickets and, you know, had made arrangements for it. And I felt just so guilty that I was going to be letting people down and I just got some of the loveliest messages, know, and phone calls from friends and people in my network just, you know, boosting me up and, you know, telling me not to worry about it and reminding me what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. so that has just put me straight back on track to be like, right, it's a new week, we're getting on with it. What needs doing now? What can I make happen? And I think if it hadn't been for those lovely people, I probably would have been a bit of a crying wreck again today. So I am very, very grateful to all of them and celebrating having those lovely people around me. I love that. I love that. And do you know I don't think enough people talk about about this, you know, you know, because the thing is property is a difficult is a difficult one. It really is. And actually, not just property, actually, it extends beyond property. Being a business owner is very, very difficult. And actually having a corporate job is very difficult. And Lucinda came on recently, Lucinda, and she said, choose your heart. You know, she said choose your hard and she's absolutely right because I think no matter what you do in life, it always gets tough. Having kids, tough. Getting married, tough. Not doing any of those things, tough. Like there is always gonna be a hard choice to make. I think what it is is not enough people talk about the reality that you don't always have to be okay a hundred percent of the time. And there are gonna be some days where you're like, today is a bad day, you know? But as long as there are more good days than bad days, that's that's all that matters. And you know, even within my accelerator and my mastermind groups, you know, one day you'll have a person say, I'm smashing it today, or today's a really good day, and I've done this, this, this, this, this, and then literally the next day they'll be like, No, I'm really doubting myself today. Today's today's a bad day. And I tell you what, for me personally, is I also have week like a whole week. Like last week for me, for example, was atrocious. my god. Last week for me, just things were going wrong. My energy was really low. It was the week leading up to my period as well, because not enough of talk about the fact that lutil phase is the worst freaking phase you can possibly exist in. I was leading up to my period and I was like I didn't feel good about myself. I was bloated. So I didn't feel good in the way that I looked in the gym. Like when my body shape changes, ridiculously in the week up to my period. I hate it. And you know, we just feel really crap. And we're like, and I messaged the girls, I messaged Amy and Stacey. I was like, do know what, ladies? I was like, this week's bad for me. I need you to lift me this week because I just c I just can't do this. I really can't. And and then I slept all of Saturday because my body just went into full shutdown. And then I woke up on Sunday, ran 5K, did a whole bunch of work, connected with a bunch of people, and I'm feeling great as ever, and then went and smashed a workout. Like, happy days. That's okay. uh you just don't know and you just have to give yourself that time and permission absolutely. And I ended up having, spending, know, Saturday afternoon, I just had to like turn everything off, get away from computers. went and met my friend on Brighton Beach, had a cider in the sun. There was a DJ with some music playing. We chilled for a couple of hours. I went for a long walk along the beach and I was like, right, I'm back in the game now because we've got shit to do. But you know, otherwise I just, sometimes you just get yourself in that stress funk as well. And I think because I am like go, go, go all the time, that then that also works with the negative that once you're, it doesn't happen to me very often, but if I get in that negative funk, then that is go, go, go as well. And you've really got to drag yourself out of it ah because you know, this build is still going on and I can't really afford to be in that mindset because then the other stuff isn't going to be done. So I was then back on it. know, my social media is all now scheduled out for the next 10 days. So don't need to worry about that. I've done some emails. I've done other bits where, you know, I had a meeting yesterday with a, with probably my first uh investor that we're looking to hopefully, hopefully complete that in the next couple of days. So, you know, again, you're back on it and exciting stuff is happening, but it's not. It's not exciting, great stuff every single day and you have to accept that. I think I've been, because the build, the lead up to buying the property took so long. I had planned so much meticulously that I felt like once we started, we're sailing on calm quite nicely. This is great. Everything's already lined up. We know what we're doing, boom, boom, boom. But then you start to hit the things that you just can't plan for. Yeah, you just can't take your foot off the pedal, but you do have to allow yourself time to go, I'm struggling here, this is not a good day or a good week, and just be kind to yourself. Because that's what I tell everyone else, be kind to yourself, give yourself a break. And then, like a fool, I haven't done it myself. human beings. What what advice would you give someone then, Gemma? Like let's say that they're that they're you and you know they they've got one bital letter or they've got no bitalets as it were and and they're thinking, I really want to do something amazing and I want to carve out my niche and I really want to be like I they're inspired by you and and what you do. Like what advice would you give them in terms of just Learning and understanding, like what you know, for example, you've had to learn about bridging, you've had to learn about development finance, you've had to go out and actually do that. You know, what if they're sitting here and going, well, you know, Gem is so much more far ahead than me. I don't know anything about bridging or development finance, or I don't even understand these terminologies. Like, what would be your kind of like your kick up the button for them? I mean, I didn't know anything about it a year ago either, you know, it's surprising as well how quickly you learn this stuff, but a lot of it you learn from doing. There's only so much, you know, I did some courses beforehand and you get the basics, but there comes a point where you've got to do and you've got to sort of decide, okay, I'm going to buy that buy-to-let and this is the road I'm going to go down. And I think for a lot of people, You do that one buy-to-let and it opens doors for you. That's the thing. Like I didn't really want to have a whole catalogue of buy-to-lets, but I needed to get that status of being a landlord for a year. I needed to have had that borrowing uh for a year. Things that then lead you on, which, when it comes to the bridging, okay, I wasn't putting the money in myself, but they saw that I had that. And so that now makes me less of a risk to them. So there becomes a point where you have to actually take the action and get stuck in because you're going to learn so much as you're doing it. But I think, you know, as long as you're upfront and you're saying to people, I don't understand that or what does that mean? You'll be fine. And I think, you know, joining groups, joining things like girls in property or going to networking events, finding people around you that are doing it. you can get so much from that networking that you are never going to get from any course, especially if it's a course that's kind of, you know, you sign up and it sends you a load of stuff and then you're on your own and you're just working through it. Like meeting people and having those experiences, sharing contacts, getting guidance from them, that is the stuff that is priceless, I think. You're absolutely right. Well, well said. I mean you're you're quite just to help people out also, because it's one thing for me to talk about it, Gemma, but it's another thing coming from a person like you. You're you're fresh into the community, like literally a couple of weeks, not not not even as it were. What have you already seen from being in the girls and property community from your own experience in terms of the vibe or or or literally like w what you've noticed? Very supportive, um people offering to help, offering advice, people um not being scared to ask the questions. I think a lot of that comes from being a female only group, I think. And that's the same with networking. I go to a few now female only networking groups because as much as I don't mind walking into a room, I mean, it is intimidating for anybody, I think, walking into 200 people and you don't know anybody, but. It's definitely a different dynamic when it's just women. um And I've spent time at networking events, boosting up women, particularly very young women that are new in the game and somebody, some man has made a comment to them that they shouldn't be doing it. And I'm like, who the hell do they think they are? Like, why don't they want you in it? well, you know, because maybe your competition to them, you know, what have you been through in your life? And one young girl told me, Oh, you know, I moved here on my own at 12 years old. didn't speak any English. I was like, girl, if you've done that, then you can handle buying a property. Like, do not listen to it. So, and I don't think you get that when it's women only. So I've already noticed there is a lot of, a lot of support and people are very, are much more open with celebrating their wins and celebrating what they're doing. And I think sometimes when, when there's men involved. people doubt themselves a bit more and they don't want to open up and really say, I think people feel like they're gonna say something and feel a bit silly or they're gonna get put down or that there might be just something a bit negative about it. But when it's women only, it's definitely a very, very different vibe. Hmm, I agree. I I completely agree with you. You know, I I I've been to many, you know, and I'm all for doing doing mixed as well. I like mixed because I think we can all learn from each other. We're all different people and it's just people at the end of the day. But you're right, I think I think that when it comes to the community, it's much more open. And people use this word safe quite a lot, you know. It's like a safe environment, a safe thing. And for me, that that is all I care about is that everybody feels seen. And I said the other day, like one person put a question out and just it was you and it was three other ladies. I think that gave the responses to the to the question. And it was done with such detail, the responses, that even she was like, I wasn't expecting it to be such a good response. And and for me, it just it I I was I was up late at night, and so I was responding to all the messages and it just filled my heart to see this. And then I could sort of go to bed with a smile on my face. And it was just wonderful to really recognise that what I had intended for the community was literally playing out before my eyes. And I've said this before, and I'll say it again until the cows come home. The community is only as good as the women in it. Always. There's room for everybody. Everybody's doing different things. Even if you are doing the exact same model as somebody else, there is a lot of property in this country. There is a lot of space. There is a lot of money. You don't need to be forcing people out or nudging people out of the way. Go do your thing. Share your knowledge. Support each other. You never know when your paths will cross again as well. You might end up working together or in the same situation somewhere else. it all comes back to those relationships that you build. And just, I don't think you need to be too precious about it, help each other out. What you give out, you get back, isn't it? It's all good karma. So, yeah, absolutely. Great, great attitude, Gemma. I've loved this. Um my final question for you is this. Now you might know that I'm gonna ask you this question, or you might not know I'm gonna ask you this question, depending on if you've listened to recent podcasts. so I love this question. Now I've said this often before. I'm probably gonna ask it when I start start my dates again. I'm gonna ask this as like a first date question. I love I love the question. Um this question was asked to me um on a recent podcast a couple of months ago, and um And I now pass this question on, which is, what and by the way, this question stumped me, just so that you know, I was silent for about two, three minutes. I was like, what the hell is the answer to that question? So it's what's one question that nobody has ever asked you that you wish that somebody would have asked you? I think a lot of people don't ever ask, I mean we've talked about it a lot today actually, nobody ever really asks how you actually feel about it, like in the moment. And like I said, you know, it has been quite stressful and you know, I've had some, you know, days where I've been really sort of upset and down and stressed and people don't ever really see me like that. So I think that's probably a lot of the reason people don't. ever ask like how are you really doing this? Like how are you really feeling? What's really going on? Because I give quite an impression of I'm on top of it all when I do it all. And I think it literally took me having a bit of a breakdown this week before certain people sort of started to ask around that. And um you know, I'm quite a big advocate in general for people looking after their mental health. And that's obviously part of this project in a lot, in a, big way. And uh each of my houses in the key worker scheme are actually going to be affiliated with a charity or an organization uh linked to mental health. And a percentage of the profits are going back to those charities to help them because it is such a big problem in the key worker community. But I, I'm the person that always looks out for people and always messages people and checks in with people because you never know what someone is going through even though they're displaying all right on the outside. um But I feel like sometimes I don't really get that back. And I don't know, maybe it's the nature of my work that I am very conscious of that and what I'm doing in this build and everything else and this project. So maybe it makes me more aware of it, but yeah, I don't often get asked like, how are you really doing or what's really going on with you? Are you okay? Hmm. Such an interesting one, isn't it? Do you know do you know what sometimes I find is I love that you've answered that so honestly, first of all, so thank you for that. I always find the person that we don't check in with often enough is actually ourselves. So sometimes what we do is we we're I tell you what sometimes no, I I talk about what I used to be I used to do a lot of. I used to keep going almost hoping and waiting for somebody else to check in with me so that it almost then gave me permission, if you like, to then tell the person that I'm not okay and that it gave me permission to stop and break down. Whereas actually what we should be doing is we should be checking in with ourselves. Say, how do you actually feel about this? And I'm not just talking about property, by the way. I'm talking about relationships, I'm talking about life, I'm talking about where you are in your your your moment. So for example, something like um me being out in Miami at the moment, for example, you know, I will have to check in with myself and go. Well, you're out here on your own. How do you feel about that truthfully? Like how are you actually feeling at the moment? As opposed to somebody calling me to go, hey, I'm just checking in on you. It's been a week, haven't heard from you. How are you feeling about being out of my? And so I feel like what we can do is we can actually take responsibility for ourselves and going, actually, I'm I'm not okay and then reaching out to the right people, the right community, all of that. But it's interesting, isn't it? And I think I can tell, I know we don't know each other very well, Gemma, but I can tell with your personality is that people probably see you as a very strong individual who probably, let's face it, always has her shit together, quite frankly. And so they're probably not used to seeing you in a vulnerable way or not used to seeing you like that. And so it might be that sometimes they're almost afraid to ask you the question in case you therefore crumble and aren't the rock that they see. And that in a way, selfishly makes them then feel uncomfortable or makes them feel like, How can I help? So there's I've I've watched this, I've watched this happen to many people, and I've watched this happen to myself, where suddenly it's I think one of the most powerful things you can do in life is to show vulnerability. I really believe that. And I know that you you'll know that from the work that you do, um, particularly in helping others, and to say, actually I'm also not okay, or actually I also struggled with my mental health because it gives other people permission in order to open themselves up as well. So Yeah, checking in on ourselves and in terms of how we really feel about this, I think is it's beautifully said. Beautifully said. I uh do a lot of meditation work and things like that. I think you have to try and do your bit to try and zone out and give yourself a bit of a break as well. But yeah, sometimes I think as well, if you're the sort of person that is used to keep going and getting stuff done and... especially as well if you're a single person, like you're doing it all, there's nobody to pick up the pieces, there's nobody to pay the bills if you don't earn the money or to do all these things. um There becomes a lot of pressure and yeah, sometimes you do just need to sort of check in with yourself and just find a way to relax and look after yourself because it's very easy to distract yourself with doing more, I think. And that's probably what I'd done, which is why I hit a bit of a wall this week. I'd probably had just tried to keep going and figure it all out and juggle it all. You live and learn, don't you? And so next time it'll be a different scenario, but that's life. There you go, that's life. I love that. Do you know, I've adored this podcast. I'm so glad I said yes to you and I'm so I'm so glad that you didn't take no for an answer as well. And I can't wait to see the the build project. I can't wait to see where it goes, get you back in a year's time, and really, really see how you've gone from one to two to three to now all over and just really really telling your story, Gemma. And as I said, I'll I'll definitely be reaching out to a couple of magazine people that I know, um editors, because I think that it's fantastic what you're doing. I love the purpose of it as well and and it so people are gonna want to get in contact with you, they're gonna want to know more, they're gonna want to come and join your site day as it were. So where can people find you to connect? So I'm on Instagram, BFH underscore LTD. ah You can find me on LinkedIn under myself, Gemma Parsons, or there is a Black Flamingo Homes page, but it's probably best to get me on mine. ah Or you can email me, gemma at blackflamingohomes.com. ah But yeah, I'll get back to you. We can have a chat, WhatsApp me, whatever. Brilliant. I love that. Do reach out to Gemma. And as always, guys, I'm Athena Dobson underscore official and girls in property. Um, we're a hundred we're over a hundred and by the time this episode comes out, we're at 152 weeks before this episode comes out. So we'll probably be about 160 strong by the time this comes out. Um yes, I'm gonna say ten in two weeks, we'll probably do more, which would be amazing. So come and join. You know, I've set myself this target for 170 members to come into the community before the twenty second of August. I've got my my sort of my site set on it. I'm saying it out to the universe again and again. Because I know I'm going to achieve it. So ah come and join. You've heard it from Jemmy yourself. It's a gorgeous community. This isn't a hard sell, it's an invitation only, but just know it is going to be increasing to £40 plus VAT a month from the 1st of August. So if you are going to come in, genuinely do come in before the 1st of August at £30 a month plus VAT because then you get the the grandfather rights. I'm going to be introducing so many more things. The five-day challenge was a massive success. I've already got the next one lined up for the next quarter. Um I've been um introducing some really exciting things in regard to uh a potential for girls and property on tour. as part of the community and our summer and winter party. So yeah, just if you need a push and you need to be around like-minded women and also be educated, because there's a whole library worth of information, whether it's HMOs, Bitelect, Service Combination, like all the education you need there is there. For literally £30 a month, you can't get cheaper than that in the industry. So any information you want, just DM me the word community and I will definitely come back to you. Um, Gemma, I'm gonna leave you with a parting words for the listeners today. What would you like to say? I would like to say just get out there, do your thing, be kind to people, help people along the way, people will help you back, live your life, do the best work you can, be happy. Be happy. Couldn't have said it better myself. Health is wealth, everybody. Mindset, body, peace of mind always. But Gemma, thank you again for coming on. Good luck with your project. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. It's for a great cause and can't wait to see what you do next. So you're welcome. Right, everyone, have an amazing week. Let me know what you're up to. Sending you loads of love and yeah, well wishes. Have a good one. See you soon. Bye. Bye.