A Different Type of Messy Middle: Starting Again in Your Mid 30s with Emma Wilson

Everyone talks to you about the messy middle of business. Nobody talks to you about the messy middle of life.

That part of your 30s where the relationship ends, the job goes, the plan quietly falls apart and you're living alone for the first time wondering how on earth you got here.

In this episode of Girls in Property I'm joined by Emma Wilson, the Turning 30 coach, who rebuilt her whole life at 33 after leaving a toxic relationship, losing her job in the pandemic and learning to be on her own for the very first time. What she found on the other side wasn't what she expected. It was better.

We talk about the timelines we grip onto that were never ours. The engagement, the baby, the career move that should have happened by now. I open up about ending my five year relationship and starting again from scratch while everyone around me settles. We get into solo time, loneliness, attachment styles, the question nobody ever asks Emma about becoming a mother later, and her month off Instagram.

This one is for you if you're in a season that doesn't look like the plan.

Because the resistance usually means you should.

Have a listen and let me know what lands. And if you know a woman in her 30s who needs to hear this today, send it straight to her.

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Transcript

0:01

Good morning everyone and welcome to today's episode of the Girls in Property Podcast. How's everybody doing today? my god, like do you know what? This weather at the moment is absolutely incredible. I don't know about everybody else, but obviously, as you know, I've literally just come back from Spain, and if I'm honest with you, I was a little bit like, my god, have I got to come back? Really? Um, but I have to say, the weather is actually making things so much better. And I have to say, like Us as Brits are so funny because I feel like I don't know about everybody else, but I feel like it's what everyone is talking about. Like they're like, it's very hot today, or oh, it's a little bit cooler today, or you know, have you got a fan in your house? And I'm just really picking it up on like this. I think it's because I've been away for for like over fifty days outside the UK. Everyone's like, like, I recognise such British quirks and British habits when I actually come back. So it's it's been quite fun actually. And It was fab, was obviously, as you know, I came back to host my CEO days for my mastermind and my accelerator girls, which were just epic in the most beautiful way. Like on those days I said to the girls, I said, We've literally come with no agenda. We we've come open to you. So there was only about um, you know, six, seven of us, and six, seven, hilarious. And literally I was like, um, what do you actually want to do today? What do you want to learn about? What is it that you want to talk about? And we went around the room and everybody gave a bit that they wanted to learn on the day. And I said, great, that's what today is going to be about. We're going to do this in the morning, this in the afternoon, and then this just before we go. And they're like, perfect. And I think that's where I'm really learning the essence of like is to let go of trying to be too rigid and trying to let go of being too much in control. And kind of just this notion of faith, flow, and fun, and kind of saying, All right, well, what is it that you want to know? What is it that your intention is? And therefore let's create it around it. So It was brilliant. I'm really proud of it. The girls loved it. You all like gave the most gorgeous testimonials. So yeah, it's fab. And if you know you've ever been stuck in a place and you've ever been thinking to yourself, Athena, I feel really stuck, heavy, not sure what's going on at the moment, then of course, you know, come and join the girls and property community. We've got uh believe it or not, we're now at 170, which was my aim for to be by the time I leave to go away. I wanted 170 and I've hit it three weeks in advance with my target, so 117 now, which is amazing, absolutely gorgeous community. So come and talk to me about that one if you want to sort of come into it. Um, and then also, you know, if you're thinking it's stuck and heavy at the moment and you just need a bit of guidance um around things, then talk to me about the mastermind, the accelerator, booking in a 90-minute call with me just to really get that going, as it were. Um would be fantastic. So, everyone, today is going to be a fun, exciting episode. And It's really interesting, you know, because you know how I talk to you all about about Instagram, right? And I always say to you all, why are you not on Instagram? If your business is not on Instagram, get yourself on Instagram. And I'm literally going to tell you why this is so important. Because as you know, I am a great believer in the universe, a great believer in it, and a believer in that everything that is meant for you will never pass you by and that things come to you for seasons and reasons at the time that they do. And one day I was in Spain and I was just scrolling through Instagram as I always do. And as you know, I'm at a certain time in my life at the moment, at the age of 34, starting again. And I came across this person and her content just really spoke to me, like directly to me, as if piercing my heart. And I thought, Who is this person? I need to talk to her. I get need to get to know her. she was offering a 15 minute call. And on that call, I was like, I just feel like I've known you for so long. And from there, this podcast is now formed. And I'm actually going to Thailand to her retreat in October as well. So Instagram is huge. So without further ado, I'd love to introduce Emma Wilson. Hey Emma. Hello, so great to be here. my goodness. Do you know what? I absolutely love how our sort of interaction came about, how our conversation came about. Because uh I just I just don't believe that things happen by accident. I really, I really don't, you know? And what I really wanted to do, and I said this to you on the when we were having our conversation, is to talk about this notion of starting again in your mid thirties. That's what today's talk is about. I know that you've got your own story of that. I know that's your passion, I know that's your your jam, as it were. So why don't you start by just sort of introducing yourself first, Emma, because people within my world, my community are likely not gonna know who you are. Um, and sort of talk to them about this notion of this starting again journey that you've been through and now what it is that you are really doing going forward for yourself and helping others. Right, of course, that is exactly what we're going to do today. We're going to dive into this messy middle turning point happening in your 30s. uh My this is my zone of genius and obviously what I built my whole business and my my Instagram, which is obviously the place that we we connected. So before we go into that introduction, I'm Emma. am 39 years old. And I say it like that because I've just turned 39 and I think this is the first podcast since my birthday. So yes, that was like, okay, registering the 39th year. And I run myself as the Turning 30 coach. you know, it's just, it's just the brand name. It's really specifically for women in their 30s who feel left behind, feel like maybe the path just hasn't unfolded exactly like they expected it to, like they wanted it to. And I work with two different types of women. I think it's the women who feel left behind, but they really want those things and they're really working to get those things. And then secretly the type of women I love working with even more is the women who thought they wanted those things, didn't get the things and then are now creating bigger and better lives for themselves. And maybe they didn't even want those things in the first place. It was just societal conditioning or maybe they want those things, but that's just busy, enjoying the messy middle and having you know, these twists and turns that are bringing them so many different experiences in their thirties. So that's what I do. I'm a life coach, podcast host, content creator and mentor. I also have my own community. So I absolutely love hearing about your community. I was also reading about it. It sounds wonderful. And we can definitely speak about communities and how important they are for when you're in your thirties or at any age. I just, the validation of communities for me is like just so special. And in terms of, I mean, should I just dive into my story or should I just go straight on? I feel like I'm digressing, but okay. So when I was in my early thirties, I already was the turning 30 coach at this time. However, I was in a relationship and looking back now, I can say it was very much the wrong relationship. It did take me quite a few years to admit that out loud, but. It wasn't a good relationship. However, it was the relationship that I found myself in at the time when all of my friends were getting married, at the time when I thought and expected that this was going to happen for me. The relationship itself wasn't a good one. It was, you know, for want of a better word, toxic. And even so, I was running headfirst towards what I thought were these pivotal milestones, you know, having a big engagement and a wedding and buying a buying a house in the suburbs and very much settling down. And the truth was that not only was this not the right relationship to do it with, but I actually wasn't ready for it, even though I thought that I was. And we actually ended up breaking up on the week of my 33rd birthday. On that week, I also lost my job. It was during the pandemic and I was already a life coach at this point, but not full time. So... It was literally like the universe was coming and wiping my hands fully clean and saying, right, you're to have no job. You're going to have no relationship. You're going to have to start fresh. You are going to be an expert. You're going to live alone for the first time in your thirties and navigate this uh messy middle, this uh unexpected chapter. And it was just the best thing that ever could have happened to me. Cause at the time it was obviously just so crazy. I could never have predicted it. took me off on a tangent in my life that I just didn't expect. I had no idea what was going to happen. But even though those first few months were really hard to navigate, know, breaking up, we were four years together. Like I said, it was this person who I presumed I was going to do these next steps with. And now I was just in this whole new uh life path. And yeah, this is basically where now all of the work that I do stems from is to helping other women navigate that when your 30s come along and it's not what you expect or like what happened to me and I think also I know we really connected about this when we when we had our call is you just something huge happens and you end up changing directions and like you said it's just not spoken about enough so yeah that's exactly the reason that I work with women who are in this live stage and who are navigating this path. Hmm. And you know what? I think there's so many of us. I I think what's happened is maybe I just it was one of two things. Either I just didn't notice it as much before when I was in my comfortable relationship and I was going through it, so I didn't really pay attention as much. Whereas it must be that now my algorithm just brings it all my way. But I just feel there are so many women like like me who are, you know, we talk about this messy middle all the time in in business, right? We say, do you feel stuck? Do you feel heady? Heavy? Are you in the messy middle of business? We always talk about that, but nobody's talking about the messy middle of being a woman who desires to have a business, desires to be successful, desires to have a career, yet. now having to think about whether they start a family or they don't start a family and whether they marry or they don't marry. And like I said, all of our all of my friends are engaged and getting married and everyone's celebrating them and it's all over my Instagram and I'm like, that's okay, like that's fine. And and I'm like you Emma, like I I split up with my long term partner of five years, as everybody knows, in October. We're now in August, so it's nearly coming up for for a year. And I thought I was going to do the whole thing. I thought I was gonna marry him, we were gonna get a dog, like everyone knew that we were getting a dog, and then like I I was so excited about it, and it's really interesting. Like, we were gonna do the whole baby thing, the marriage thing, like we were talking about our wedding. I kind of knew he was gonna propose, like we were doing the whole thing. And it's funny, you know, because everyone kept saying to me, like, why have you got the dog yet? Why have you got the dog yet? And I think deep down the reason I never got the dog is because I knew that I was on my way out. I just hadn't actually admitted it to myself yet, and sometimes Your subconscious knows before you even know, and you're like, Oh, that's why. And you know what, Emma, to be honest with you, like it is shit scary doing this again completely on my own because there is that element of your your body clock ticking, right? And everyone's saying to like, Well, if you want to have a baby, why don't you freeze your eggs and why don't you do this? And everyone seems to have an opinion about everything. And I feel like you are literally like, my God, like You know, and you made a really good point earlier. You're like this notion which I find really confusing at the moment, and I know a lot of other women are going through this. And so if you resonate with this, I really hope this podcast is for you today and your voice is being heard through me, is how do we know if we even want to have children, for example? Like society tells us that we're meant to want children, but but do we actually want children? And if we don't want children, it's like, is that really bad that we don't want kids? And people keep saying to me, they're like, Athena, you just haven't found the right guy yet. They're like, once you find the right guy, you'll want children. And I'm like, but how do you know that? Like, like for me, I'm around women where they're just like, I know I want to be a mum. I know I love my kids. I know all of this. I'm not that girl. Like, I'm really not that girl. I'm not that girl. oh okay, you know? I think that it's really important to say that this is obviously a whole separate topic about the kid question, but it's okay. It's okay now at the age of, you said you're 34, at the age of 34 to not know is okay. And I think that it's this ridiculous, it's just, it's that concept that by X age that we should just know exactly what's going to happen in the future, that we should just be so certain of how our life's going to pan out, that we should already just know if we want children or not. Absolutely not. Things change all the time. Of course, whoever said that to you, a friend, maybe you will meet somebody and then when you're with them, you'll be like, I do want children. Maybe you'll meet somebody who doesn't want children and you'll be like, actually, maybe I don't want children. You just don't know yet. Some people are born knowing if they want to be a mother or not. And some aren't. And I think the point that you've touched on that's so important is that there is no set deadline to when we need to be in a relationship, to when we need to make decisions, to when we need to uh do anything. There's no set deadlines. Our lives are unfolding in magical ways that we don't know. And that's why I love your story of that you were in Spain and then you're going traveling again, you're coming to the retreat in Thailand. You could have, you would never have predicted that a year ago. you were still in your relationship one year ago. Imagine if somebody came back and said to you, Athena, in one year's time, you will have just been living abroad, and then you're about to go on all these crazy trips and spend so much time outside of the UK and go and find yourself, you're be coming to do loads of woo woo shit on a retreat in Thailand. You would be like, what are you talking about? And I had that because, exactly, I really resonated with what you said about the subconscious. That's why I say, or looking back, my relationship was. was shit. Looking back, I can say it now five years on, it wasn't a good relationship but at the time I ignored all the red flags and I just was like so in my head about these like you know, oh this is just the person it's just gonna it's gonna happen and I used to have these moments, I don't know if you have this, where I would literally be like walking along the street in the like let's say six to months to one year after going through the breakup being like laughing to myself like how is this my life but it would be like so joyful and so grateful, like such huge appreciation for everything that I've gone on to build, even though I'd gone to the depths of, my God, you know, this huge seismic shift in everything. So yeah, I think it's really important to know this point of maybe you don't know if you want to have kids yet. And maybe that's something you're going to figure out at 35. Maybe at 36 is when you're going to meet your partner. Maybe at 37 is when you're going to start another business. You you just... There's so much more time left and time, not even just in our 30s and our 40s and 50s and beyond to figure it all out. I know. And I I I love that, Emma. I really, really do. And I think I'm actually starting to believe it now. I really do. I think it's like I think now I'm like actually, I'm really believing that we don't need to rush this, you know. And I've been really curious about about thinking about something almost, especially if we think about just female entrepreneurs and the way that we're built, the way that we're designed, to be quite driven and quite you know, I I always I always wonder about this aspect of control, always. And it's almost like trying to control the narrative, trying to control what happens. And sometimes it's this notion, which is so bloody difficult for so many of us as women that we are, to genuinely let go and submit to the universe and submit to life, to go, you know what, you tried the whole control thing, you tried to make the narrative work, you tried to this. I went from a seven-year relationship when I was younger, so I was in a relationship for seven years with my ex of an ex. Um there was literally a two-week gap. I didn't even date, there was a two-week gap, and then I went into a five-year relationship. So I don't really know what it feels like to almost be single, right? To actually just be like single and like, what do I want to do? How do I want to be? And that's why for me, I said to myself this year as my new year's resolution, I said, Athena, go traveling this year. Be selfish this year. You know, and even this notion of the word selfish, why is it selfish to do self love? God knows. That's another conversation we can have. Why the word selfish is even in there, God knows. But you know, self love and go and just be. free you know like be free and it's really interesting you know because I talk to a lot of other people right who have got the whole picket fence two kids and 2.5 and husband and all of that and they say to me Athena I'm living vicariously through you they're like you go girl I'm literally living through you right now and so it's this real notion of oh right okay but you have the whole perfect life But yet you're living by kerosene through me, and I definitely don't have the perfect life over here. And I'm back home living with mum again. And people are like, Well, where are you gonna go? And what are you gonna do? And where are you gonna live? And I'm like, I have no effing idea. No idea. Not even a hint of a clue what it is that it holds. And the most beautiful thing is, Emma, is I I love the fact that this podcast I will listen back to in a year's time in a whole year and go. I had no freaking idea that that was gonna happen, you know. And that it really is the magic of being single in your thirties. And, you know, just for some context for the audience, because I know that most people here probably have never heard of me or my story, but I am now 39. I'm married. I have a two year old about my partner at the age of 35. And, you know, I look back now, you know, I love my husband. I love being a mum. It's difficult. I love it. Love my son. Those few years of being single in my 30s after the breakup and before I met my husband were a gift that was given to me that I didn't know that I needed. And honestly, the panic that I felt at the thought of being single at 33, it kept me in my relationship for longer than I should have been, was intense. It was a very, very strong fear of being alone. It was a very, very strong fear of not meeting somebody and not having the chance to be a mum. And it was a very strong... fear of having to exactly like you. am like, I'm really a recovering control freak, but it was a massive big part of my life to be able to see and control. And, you know, the path took a huge turn, a huge redirection. And I think after the panic of the first few months, I did exactly as what you've been talking about that you've done is that I just said, okay, so I'm single. I didn't expect it to happen this way, but how can I make the most of it? And it was exactly when my business took off and I, know, it was, it was the heyday of coaching because it was pandemic times where everyone was signing up with coaches and like everything just went from strength to strength. And then I, I just jet off. I booked a one way ticket to South America. went to live there. Um, I was there supposed to go for two months and I ended up staying for five. And then I was just like all around the world for about two years. Also working on my business. And yes, I was dating in between and I was like, wanted to meet somebody. It wasn't a forgotten topic. You know, it wasn't like I just pretended I don't want to meet somebody. I could have just said I didn't want to. In hindsight, I wasn't ready and I could have declared it as like some time off. But it, you know, it was not my priority. My priority was my business. My priority was my freedom, travel, self work, like healing, coaching, therapy, all of the things. And that's why I always say now when people say to me, my god Emma, I'm going through a breakup and however old I am, 33, 34, 35 and I say, my god, I'm so jealous. And people say, what do you mean I'm so jealous? And I'm like, you're gonna have the biggest glow up. Your whole life's gonna be just so different now. And I say it, honestly, I mean it so much and it was a gift that was handed to me. And even now, this is a really separate conversation, but I struggle in my relationship and being a mother because I miss those days and I have to go through grief. We usually think it's the other way around. That you would be, when you're single, like you said, you'd be like, waiting to get the relationship. And in a way I was, and then I got it. And then now I'm like, but you know, it's not like the grass is greener, because it's just different, very, very different. But there were so many amazing memories and amazing times of my single chapter. And I will be forever grateful for them. Mm. Do you know it's I I love that you just said that, Emma, because um my word at the moment, I I I have words that come to me at different moments, like within my life and and um I And and the word that that that constantly goes round for me at the moment that I use is the word blessed. You know, I really, really feel blessed, and I really see this this chapter of my life as a blessing. And you you see, like as a book, like if you think about your life, like as a book, I this is how I always see my life, and it's just chapters, literally just chapters. And I and I was talking to my mum the other day, and I said, I can't believe that I used to live that chapter. It's a whole different person, you know, because also one of the reasons that actually um my relationship. kind of ended, if I'm honest with you, is because I decided to do a lot of healing work and a lot of subconscious work. And when you actually do that and you start to do the work on yourself and the inner work and you start to realize why you do certain things, why you choose certain people, all of these things, once you see it, you can't unsee it. And suddenly you're like, Oh no, I can no longer stay. This this can no longer work because this no longer works for me, because I am a different person. I have literally evolved as a different person. And again, in your singles, you're kind of like, hmm, this is the time to again be selfish and just focus in and focus within ourselves and grow again. So yeah, I'm very blessed. I always think it'd be nice to share memories. You know, solo traveling is great and I've loved solo travelling. I've learned so much about myself. If I'm completely honest with you and people think, Athena, you're so confident that you went out to Spain on your own and you must have loved it and you know it must have been fantastic for you and I put up these selfies of me and all of this. But the reality is like the first like day two days like I cried. I full on cried. I was like like I was uncomfortable. I was like, I don't like this. Nobody's here with me. Like I was completely in Spain on my own. I didn't know anybody. So if anything happened to me, I was like, I don't even know who I would call. Because no no one is here and that was terrifying for me. And like I'm obviously not gonna put me crying on Instagram. Nobody wants to see that. But it's but this podcast is like therapy for me because it's important that the l like you know, the people that know me well who listen to this are like, I didn't know that, Athena and it's like, yeah, like it doesn't j confidence doesn't just come, like you have to go through it and I said to myself, this two shall pass and you have two days of crying and then you wake up the third day and you're like, actually, this is this is great. Spanish then like, you know, gym and working and let's go. But I think that it's really important what you just said and to be honest about it. And I think, you I was basically video blogging my single chapter on Instagram at the time and it was hard solo traveling. You know, I was like carrying around this massive suitcase for some reason I thought it was a good idea to take a 30 kilo suitcase to Costa Rica with all my podcast kit in it and everything. And I was like, I don't know why I couldn't really even carry it. And I remember like not having help arriving into a place and The co-working house that I had booked to stay in didn't have availability for the first week. So I stayed in a hotel, know, I didn't speak to anyone for three days. Just like you said, it takes you a while to find your feet. It takes you a while to even get comfortable in your surroundings. Exactly the same as you. I'm like, got my own podcast. I'm speaking in the camera all the time. I'm confident. No, it takes me a while to warm up. Even, you know, when I was there, I would meet people and still just feel a little bit like, okay, can I be real Emma? And then it takes a while and then you warm up. And then I ended up making... literally friends, some of my closest friends who I met when I was solo travelling today. So, you know, it usually works out and the universe is working for you to put the right people in your path, but it's also working for you to bring the challenges that you need. I needed those weeks, you know, where I struggled, the tears that were shed, the times where I thought, my fucking God, can I do this? Because it makes you stronger. And it also, you know, it's just, there's a preconceived notion, I think, that when you're brave, and confident and you step up to yourself or when you do something that's aligned, okay? That's the word I use a lot in my coaching is making aligned decisions. So you make a decision, for example, a breakup or uh a trip or something, there's a preconceived notion that it will just work out well. Well, I've made an aligned decision now, it felt right at the time, it won't be hard. Absolutely not, this is life, you there's going to be things that don't go perfectly. So I'm glad that you said that because I think... I run a community of single women who are in their messy middles who are doing all of this thing and they're often sharing a lot of the things and it's hard. Someone just even shared a post today how she just had the most amazing few weeks and she'd gone away and she went hiking and she met friends and she started to play paddle and all these amazing things and she came back to an empty house after and she felt really sad. And I was like, your single chapter in your 30s, in fact any chapter, but even just speaking about the singleness of it. It's, and also, it's incredible and also it's hard. It's really expanding and empowering and also it's lonely. You know, so there's definitely like many different juxtapositions of how it feels to be in this chapter. Definitely. Do you know what I think I'm learning with that as well, just based on what you just said about that person in your community. I think if I'm honest with myself, I think I was definitely a person that tried to avoid being in the pain bit. So I was definitely the person that was literally like, okay, let's try and distract myself. Let's try and like like like if I come home and I feel lonely, let's try fill that that void. Let's try fill that pain point so that we don't have to feel, you know? And so my version of that was leaning into work. I'm very, very good at feeling pain with work. It's a very good good skiller that I that I have. And actually what I've learned is to go, no Athena, you're gonna have to go sit in the pain. Because it's the only way you're going to heal, and it's the only way you're gonna grow. And I tell you what, it is so painful. But you literally go, this is part of the journey, this is part of growth. And you know what my biggest tip for everybody listening to this is is growth comes in lots of different ways, and obviously I'm learning about it myself, but Pain is not a negative thing. Pain should never be seen as a negative thing. Pain for me is just information. And then it's like, why is there pain here? What does the pain actually represent? And when you actually go deep into your subconscious and you actually understand where the pain stems from or what it actually exists, you go, Oh, that's why that hurts, because this, this, this, this, this. And then when you get the information, you then go, Oh, it doesn't it it hurts a little less next time because I understand it a little bit more. And I think that rather than I think as a society, and and I used to be this way, I used to be this girl, we just we try and distract ourselves and we kind of go, No, I don't like it, I'm gonna stay in my comfort zone. And like I I've always said this by the way, and I say this to people in business and in life. I think that comfort is like a disease, right? When you're in your comfort zone, for me personally, I'm like, it's like a disease because you're comfortable so you'll never push yourself. You know, you're on your five K salary, comfortable job. So you're never gonna quite push yourself to do something new in terms of being an entrepreneur. You're comfortable in your relationship up to a certain point. It's kind of good some days, kinda not so good other days, but you know what? It's comfortable enough to stay. I'm never actually gonna leave because it's just right. And I'm like, well what what if you actually got out of your comfort zone? And sat in your truth and sat in your pain and kinda went, What is this trying to show me? What is this trying to teach me? Not from everybody else, but from yourself and look within, that you then have the biggest growth and glow up and then kinda go, actually, do you know what? I kinda want more than this in life and I'm gonna go and get it. And that's literally what happened what happened to me. But coming home to an empty house is is painful. I'm obviously living at home with mum at the moment, but mum's not always here and when I come back I always think, okay, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna have a night in on my own and silence is a silence is a really telling thing when there's there's no noise, you know, and you sit with it. think that the lonely aspect or the living alone aspect was something that was a big part of my healing journey. Because I remember when I first moved into my apartment by myself after this breakup, and I said I knew I wasn't ready to go back and live with roommates again. And I said, I'm ready to live alone. I wanted to, but I never had before. And I was really put out by it. And I think those first few weeks, I really... struggled and I remember speaking to my sister at the time and being like, I feel really lonely. And she was like, you need to meet yourself there. Like you need to lean into this loneliness and see what it's going to bring you. And it, you know, now I look back and I'm like, I can't imagine, you know, be feeling that loneliness again, because I, when I say I leant into it, I just built a really beautiful sanctuary. I called this, I had this cutie little apartment and it was just a sanctuary. I built it. I made it exactly as I wanted. I just, built a life that was on my own terms, my own values, a very aligned situation. And it was very, very healing. And now I look back and I'm like, wow, I needed to learn that lesson because if I would have gone straight into another relationship or lived not uh alone and with roommates or, you know, in another scenario, I would have never learned how to truly be happy in my own company. And I literally mean when I say my own company. having to navigate a weekend where you have to make your own plans. So many people who, if you're listening and you're in a relationship, not everybody who's in a relationship is always with a partner on the weekend, I know that, but there is a difference between knowing that you have somebody there to see at some point, even if you're not even with them all weekend, that you just go to sleep in the same bed, it's very different from having an expansive time where you're just completely alone. You don't know what plans are going to happen and you're relying on other people to meet up or you're relying on yourself to do all the things. And if you've never experienced that before, you can't imagine how daunting it is. And I remember just being like, wow, I really need to learn how to navigate this by myself. And I'm so glad I did because let me tell you, it's actually something that sprung to mind with something that you just said about the pain, about avoiding pain, as all humans are always trying to avoid pain and go towards pleasure. But it really reminded me that all of the things that you are currently, not just you, Athena, anyone listening, who you're struggling with right now, is going to show up in the future relationship that you're in. When you get into another relationship, if I would never have healed this thing about spending time alone, I would be relying more on my partner, and I would probably be more co-dependent on him, and I would probably be really angry if every time he wanted to, my partner's plays paddle. all the time. So every time he went to play paddle, I would be like, I can't be by myself, but I've built a beautiful relationship with being alone. So he wants to go play paddle. Amazing girl. Don't come back for seven hours. I need to be alone. And he said, everything that we are learning during any chapter of life is going to serve us in the next one. So I always like to remind people that when they're saying, when they're talking about their single chapters, if there's something that makes you really anxious, if there's something that makes you feel unsettled, if there's something that you're afraid of, You have to lean into it and meet it where it is because it's going to show up. It's not just about being single. It's going to show up in the relationship. It's going to show up in dating. It's going to show up even if it's in 20 years. It's not going anywhere. We can't escape ourselves, sadly. Yeah, yeah. I isn't that the truth? We can't escape ourselves. That that I've learned. That what that one I've learned, Emma. Um, there's so much I want to talk to you about with this. So before we delve any deeper, um on this podcast we always talk about what it is that we're also celebrating. Because as women, I feel like we don't celebrate enough. We don't ever just take stock of where we are in this moment and go, in this moment, this is what I'm celebrating. So what are you celebrating, Emma? Well, I know this is a little bit controversial because of what you opened the podcast talking about, but I'm celebrating one month of being off Instagram. And I want to just talk a little bit about why, because obviously I'm the biggest advocate for Instagram. It's my main marketing channel. It's my main platform where I have my audience and my community. So I have not bad things to say about Instagram, but it's been nine years of posting. every single day, pretty much. It was my crutch. And you know, when you said that you can lean into your business a lot in terms of when you're feeling that if something is missing, I'm exactly the same with my business. And my Instagram became a huge crutch for me, especially when I was single and my business was the main thing in my life. And I started to have a little bit of an uncomfortable relationship with it over these last months. especially because of my own addiction to scrolling. And I cannot believe how different I feel after four weeks off. I have become super creative again. I'm like leaning into all these random hobbies. I just feel so much more confident. And I'm saying this, I'm fully intending to go back on, but it just reminded me of how important it is to have boundaries for yourself. social media is an addiction. And I think... many people listening will probably resonate that when you run a business and your business is on social media, it gives that extra dimension of needing to show up online. it's almost like there was an empty space every day in my mind that had to go to what stories am I going to share today? What wheels am I going to go into post? So it's been very enlightening. You mentioned something before about distracting yourself. for me, Instagram became... distraction where I would just not feel pain. Like I would not feel my emotions because it would just be like, okay, I'm overstimulated by my child straight up on the phone. I had an argument with my husband straight up on the phone. You know, I'm feeling like I'm missing out on something with my friends straight, straight up on the phone scrolling. So I'm celebrating being able to hold a boundary for myself and lean back and trust and release that control because in my mind I'm like, you know, my God, is my business going to exist if I go off Instagram? It's just like the main place where my business runs. But I'm still meeting incredible women, even though I've not been active there for a month. I'm still selling retreat spots. I'm still, you know, have this amazing community where I'm with and I'm giving so much of myself there. So, yeah, that's my big celebration for this month. Mm, beautiful. I love that. And do you know the universe made it that I found you at the perfect time before you before you took your break. So I was there, you were there, and I was like, Yep, thank I was like, Thank you very much, I'll take that. So and and I and I and it's so beautiful. And I'm actually celebrating something quite similar to you, um, Emma, and I'm not sure when this is gonna happen. I don't really have like a definitive date of this because I don't wanna make it rigid and control it. I want it to be free flowing. But I am gonna take a little bit of a break with this podcast. I'm gonna take a little bit break just in general. because I am going travelling. So I'm going to Canada for two weeks, I'm then going for three weeks to South America, come back for four days to the UK and then I'm off to obviously Thailand to see you. Um and during the time when I'm in South America, there are aspects of that trip where I'm gonna be literally in the arse end of nowhere in the jungle, because I'm travelling through Chile, Argentina and Brazil with a backpack. And so there are gonna be times where I can't be online and I can't check my phone and I can't be on the podcast. And for me that is going to be, oh my God, one therapeutic and two testing me to my limits because of my addiction to my own addictions of my mobile phone and everything. And what I'm doing is I'm making sure that the team is in place before I go to say, right team, this is what I'm off, this is how it's going to work. You know, I trust the team. I know that the business isn't going to sort of fail and collapse around as it were because it will keep going. But to sort of be like, do you know what? I might like just not post three podcasts for three weeks. I might just take three weeks off. I might take two weeks off. I might take one week off. Like, who knows? But just to almost give myself permission, because I tell everybody else to give themselves permission, give myself permission to say, Athena, if you don't release two podcasts for two weeks, the world won't burn down. They have a hundred and seventy episodes they can go and listen to. You're all right. And that's what I'm saying, listeners. There's a hundred and seventy episodes. Go catch up with your favourite. favourites but I think that it's so important to just be like you know what I'm not gonna try and stand on a crazy tree over a bridge just to try and get signal when I should be actually just enjoying the paradise around me and put my goddamn phone away. Do you know what I mean? So yeah should. It will feel uncomfortable, but that discomfort doesn't mean you shouldn't do something. In fact, the resistance means that you should. yeah, I'll be very uncomfortable. Oh very, very uncomfortable. I already know that. I'm I already know what my personality's like. I'll be like this is like I'll probably be having like those sweats of like withdrawal from the phone. getting your phone out on the mountain doing voice recordings. This is what I'm like. I'm not going to create any content then. like every minute on my phone, I can you note of a new idea for a new something that I'm going to do when I go back online. It's like you can't switch your brain off. But no, will be. I really recommend it. I recommend doing it because firstly, it will just be an amazing time for you to decompress and to just be really present where you are. And also because it will be so. important for you to set a boundary for yourself and to meet it and afterwards you'll be like, I'm really really glad I did that. It feels really good. Yeah, set boundaries and meter is a massive, massive one. so Emma, let me ask you this then. So for so for anyone who's listening to this this podcast today, who is is literally like me, who's like, Athena, I'm I'm in my mid-thirties, I'm in the messy middle, I'm either about to go through a breakup because they know, or they're like, I'm going through a breakup, or they're like, I just haven't been in a relationship for however many years and you know, what what would your advice be to them? Like what should they lean into? Like what what should they be doing at this moment? think that the piece that you spoke about that we've already been touching upon is really important about releasing control because what I find, and this is from a very lived experience and that I know most of my clients struggle with, is that when you are in your 30s and you're uncertain, you don't know what's going to happen next. And let's make it specifically about if you want to find a relationship or that's something that you want to do in the next few years. It's like such a disconcerted feeling of like, I don't know when it's going to happen and you feel the need to control it. So that might come in all different forms of, I need to date a certain amount of times per week, or I need to, I don't know, all the different things, freezing your eggs, you know, and I'm not, froze my eggs. I'm not against freezing eggs at all. I'm just using that as an example, but you know, it's like, you really want to control all these things, but the thing that we have to lean into is that you can't control how it's going to, what's going to happen. And the more you can accept the path that you're on, really accept it and not try to change it. And it's not believing the stories as well that are attached to it. So I can talk a little bit more about that in a moment, but really to just say, having an inner knowing that, okay, this is all happening to me for a very specific reason that I don't know yet. I might not ever know. It might be a soul reason. It's like, I call it your soul's curriculum. This thing of you came here for a reason. And the reason isn't to get married and have kids. That's one thing, aspect of life, and it's something that you might do along the way. And most of us do end up having relationships and many of us choose to have families, but that's not the reason you're born. The reason you are here is a much bigger reason than that. And it's just about leaning into that trust. And it's really hard. It's a very hard concept to teach because it's not, can give you a three-step plan, how to trust, how to accept. It's something very internal. And something that I really try to help clients foster this sense of, I just release control and surrender to what's going to happen. And there were many moments, you know, I'm speaking about this from like, as if I'm sitting in a temple as a monk, absolutely not. know, even now it's hard for me to fully trust and release control. I'm also in the messy middle of really specifically about where I'm going to live in the future and just don't know what country we're going to live in and really trying to navigate all these big environment changes. There's going to be many wobbles, there's going to be many doubts, there's going to be this resistance I spoke of, this voice in your head saying, but you need to know and you need to make a decision and you need to really know exactly how it's going to pan out. And yeah, there's this really central aspect of just accepting that you don't know. And it's happening for a reason like this and you just have to kind of really go along for the ride. Now, that doesn't mean that we don't have free will. It doesn't mean... that you should just sit back and say, okay, universe, do your job. I'm just gonna sit back and wait. No, there's still so much action that we can take and we will take. And anybody who knows anything about coaching knows that it's an action taking industry. It's like, okay, let's have goals, let's move towards them. So it's this like dance between the acceptance, the trust, the surrender, and also the, okay, but I am going to be the creator of my... world and I'm going to come and I'm going to do the things that I want to do. I'm going to create the life that I want to live. I'm going to make the decisions that I want to make. And it's those two together having that dance. And honestly, it sounds to me from what you're getting to know today and before and everything that I've heard about what you're going through, it sounds like you're really doing that dance and it's working. Yeah, yeah. But it's a it's i it's a sticky dance, you know? It one one one day it's one day it's the waltz, another day it's the bloody tango. Like it it l it lit it literally comes in in waves and it and it does things. But I just really, really want all the listeners to know that you know, you're not alone. I think that that's the most important thing to say. Like there's so there's so many of us. We speak about this notion of community. And I feel like a lot of women these days kind of feel like, it must just be me. You know, it must just be me that kind of messed it up, or it must be me that that feels this way, and everyone else is out there doing all these things. And actually i it's it's the the complete opposite. There's so many of us who who are like that. And you know what also is that Emma, there's a load of women in my community and I know this is a this is a different sort of demographic But also lot of women who are now getting divorced as well, you know? They've sort of almost done the whole marriage thing and they did the whole wanting to be, and now they're like coming out the other side, who are in their 40s, 50s, some of them in their 30s, and going, they're also starting again in their 40s and 50s. Um, and they're having to go through the whole thing of going, Well, I'm older and now I've got my two kids, now I want to find love again. And and I I just think that. It's so interesting and particularly, particularly for female entrepreneurs, I find, where we're so driven and we're so ambitious and then it's like trying to find the right person in order to to kind of match that with as well um to kind of you know come together because this this would be a completely different episode because I feel like what we could literally talk for for hours about this because I've I've just learned so much about it. But also it's this notion of kind of like attachment styles as well that I've been learning about and learning about my attachment style. compared to maybe people that I've dated in the past and recognizing their attachment styles and kind of going, oh, that definitely was never gonna work because we have completely different attachment styles. And it's just been such an interesting journey of kind of going, well, you know, and also like, why don't we just make it fun? Like people said to me, Athena, like rather than putting pressure on it, why don't you just go and date and have fun? And I was like, my God, I never thought about that. What if I literally just go and have fun? And they're like, Yeah. anxiously attached, but I identify, yeah. I'm an anxious attachment, that's exactly what I am. Right, so I have a lot to say about this actually. And we won't go into a whole podcast about attachment, but it's just funny that you say it because I read something this week that said, if you are anxiously attached, go and have fun. It's like the most important thing that you do is that you make everything just for fun. So go and date to have fun. Go and start a business to have fun. There's like something about if you're anxiously attached to take out the heaviness of it and to actually make it fun. So love that for you. And for me, I was very anxiously attached in my last relationship. So I came out of that relationship. read Amir Levine's book, Attached, which I'm sure many of you have read. And it's like kind of the hot book about attachment. If you've not read it, go read it. And I was like, my God, I'm so anxiously attached. My ex is so avoidant. We were literally doing this like dance, the anxious avoidant dance. It was so validating to me that book that I remember when. When I read it, it been on my bedside table when I was in my relationship for like a year and I just didn't touch it because I think my subconscious was like, don't read that book, it will make you break up. And I read it like a few months after we broke up and it was like streaming tears when I read it. I remember being like, I've never felt so validated. And you know what? In my relationship now, not anxiously attached, in the slightest, I'm like, if anything, I'm the avoidant. And my husband is like mostly securely attached and has... some anxious tendencies around something sometimes, so I become avoidant. And it made me realize how important it is not to label yourself and not to say, I am this way, therefore I can't date people who are like this because it's always so dependent on the relationship and it's always ever-changing. And a lot of the work that I did in my single, in those few years of being single, helped me really to kind of move outside of that anxious attachment. And I promised myself. I will never ever be with a very avoidant man again and I could spot them from a mile off when I was dating. I would be like, no, sorry, not going to be with you again. And it's fun. good you made a really good point there, really good point there. So number one, we should not label ourselves. I really think that labelling ourselves is actually a really dangerous thing to do. However, I do think it helps in terms of helping to understand ourselves and the reason why we behave in certain ways. So there's a really clear difference between labelling and understanding. Um so if you want to go and understand this a bit more, ladies, and you're like, what the hell are you talking about? Just go and literally Google attachment styles in relationships. There are, I think, four different ones. I'm an anxious attachment. I now know that, but I'm working through it and doing the inner work in order to go over that. Emma, I tried, right? I tried to date a dismissive avoidant, and it was torture. It was it was absolute torture for me because he was dismissive avoidant. I was anxious attachment. And that is not a good dance. That is a painful, painful dance because you you you liter you literally trigger each other. So yeah, I was like, this is never gonna work. No. do you know what? Again, I wasn't labeling us. What I was doing is as soon as I was able to look at it as information as to why it just wasn't working, we were triggering each other, it was like a light bulb moment that just went, Oh, I now understand. This makes complete sense and this is why it just doesn't work. And then it's just information. You're like, Okay, this is fine, we're just gonna not not not do it. So yeah. to me, even just understanding that specific relationship and understand, like you said, yeah, taking it away from like, in coaching, I always say this, no sweeping statements. Whenever somebody says, I am this, so therefore I can't be this, I'm like, no, that's not true. We need to look into that, into that limiting belief and go into that story. But attachment styles are very helpful when dating, absolutely, and very helpful in relationships. So yeah, I am an advocate for them, but just like you said. not making it part of your identity. Definitely, definitely. And then Emma, I've got one final question then just to round up this podcast. So a bit of a rogue question, but I'm really interested to hear your answer to it actually. Just 'cause I know you have your own podcast and I know that you Have been interviewed quite a few times. So, roughly about a year ago, I was invited on a podcast, and the person who invited me on the podcast asked me a question that stumped me for about two, three minutes. And I was like, I don't know what the answer to that question is. And I ask it to the guests that come on because I'm fascinated by the answer. And if I'm honest with you, I 100% will be asking this to every single date that I go on as well, because I'm interested to know their answer. And now I'm nervous I'm not gonna have an answer. Okay, go on, hit me. So, what is one question that nobody has ever asked you that you wish that somebody would have asked you? You know what, I've heard this before, I've read it somewhere before, and I don't have a prepared answer. As in none of my answers are prepared, I've never prepared an answer in my life, but I don't have anything off the top of my head. Wait, hold on. Ask me again. So, what's one question that nobody has ever asked you that you wish that somebody would have asked you? Okay, it's very specific to my business actually, to my scenario. Nobody has ever asked me about becoming a mother later in my 30s and how to navigate that transition. And I'll tell you why that nobody's asked me that because I spent the first part of my 30s single. and becoming the poster girl for being single. It was like, Emma, you know, I know you didn't follow me then, but I built my whole community of like people watching me traveling and going around. used to speak about dating, single life, all of the things. And then I became a mum very quickly. Like I met my partner and we got pregnant nine months later from the meeting. It was all very quick. And I never transitioned into talking about motherhood at all because it's not something that I want to talk about. And so I've been interviewed on podcasts for the last three years since becoming a mum and nobody has ever asked me about becoming a mum. So there you go, that's the question. Nobody's ever asked me how has it been for you in your late thirties to go from being the single poster girl to becoming a mum. Mm, and how has that been for you? Fucking hard. Yeah, it's something that I think I'm gonna start speaking about it more actually in my content because, you know, I'm very dedicated to my single audience. I feel very, what's the word, loyal to them because I want them to feel so seen and it's something that I needed so much in my communities for single women. But the truth is I've evolved, you know, I'm a different person now. I'm like not been single for a few years and... I should start speaking more about it because I have so many women also reach out to me who are going through that. know, women who have been single of 34, 35, 36, then they meet a partner and then they're like, Emma, like, it's, you know, it's difficult, the transition. So that's why I don't speak about it. But, you know, it was hard because it was like an identity death. I, for all of the amazingness of being single and loving it, you know, some people don't ever get to that point. Some people just kind of name somebody like... have short period of time and then they don't date a lot or travel a lot or do all the things that we both have done. for me, it became my identity. And all of a sudden, I'm like, you know, one year after my 35th birthday, I'm like holding a baby in my hands, like, my God, was like, you know, 18 months ago, I'm in uh Panama, single, having the best time, you know. So it was very, very difficult. It was whiplash. full whiplash. And it's something that I still, I'm still figuring out. But I would say now, like it's taken me, probably took me like two years to actually feel like little bits of myself again coming back. But they're there now. And I can hear it even when I'm speaking to you in the conversations and all of my coaching and everything. But yeah, it's been a wild journey. And you know, to bring it back to why it's important to even talk about this is because everything that you do in your single chapter. in this transitional period will be affecting the future version of you, no matter who that is, whether you decide to become a mother, whether you decide to stay child-free, whether you decide to be in a relationship or not, whatever happens, you are currently crafting that version of you, and I'm now in that new version, and I think it's still really important thing to Absolutely. I think it's essential to talk about and I think that there's so many women who are going to resonate with you, Emma, who have this notion of suddenly they're a mum and suddenly they've got to navigate that and they're like, What is my identity? And I talk to a lot of women in my own community about the fact that they feel like they lose their identity when they become a mum, or that their mum becomes the dominant identity, and then they're like, Well, who am I underneath that? And actually I'd love to get you back on for another episode on this. Well, actually, you know what, and it's very relevant for your audience, one of the hardest things that I struggled to transition is the business stuff, because the business was my baby. I always say that, like all my friends were like popping out kids. By the time that I even got into a relationship, all my friends had three kids, like my home friends from the UK. And I was so in my business. I was like, my business is literally my child. And I was so... nurturing of it and maternal towards my business really. was like something very, very important to me. And then when I actually went into motherhood, it was very hard to navigate. I'm like, you know, a few months after giving birth, I was already back on my laptop, like, you know, back in the business. So it's definitely a topic and an important one. You know, you, I think we mentioned it before we even jumped on the call. It's really hard when you're a female entrepreneur and you're so dedicated and you just love what you do to know when the right time is to have kids. and to know how to navigate the change. And when do you go back online afterwards? Or when do you you take a maternity leave? do you know lots of people just carry on going and all really important questions that I know many women who are listening to this will single or not. If you've already got children, you'll probably have already navigated it yourself anyway. But it's definitely big things that I've been working through these in the more recent years. Hmm. Do you know I love it? And I'm gonna get you back on the podcast if if you know, if you if you'd fancy it to really talk about this because I just feel that we're not talking about it enough, you know, and that's what this podcast is dedicated to. Yes, you know, I'll bring all the the property stuff and the strategy stuff and all of that, absolutely. But actually the real conversations that I love to have is it's like, Well, how do you navigate being a mum and knowing when it is the right time to be a mum and like all of these? And then, you know, even the mums that I speak to every day who are in my community, they're like, Athena, you just do it. you just get on with it or it's been bloody tough or it's been really easy or some of them have got their partners some of them don't have their partners and it's like why don't we actually just have conversations so that we feel like we are seen and heard and that these conversations matter you know that that that that's really what I want to do going forward. Yeah, and another topic that will be interesting to hear like how your community will feel about it as well is dating and you mentioned this before is like how to pick a partner that is suitable for somebody who is a female entrepreneur because it's not everybody, not every person man or woman who have you not everybody is suited to be with somebody who is an entrepreneur, which is like a whole other conversation. But I think it's also really important like navigating relationships as well when one of you or maybe both of you are self-employed, running a business. It's a whole other podcast, but yeah, it's a really important topic. it's it's a whole other podcast, you know, just just on that really, really quickly. You know, I think for me that was one of the most difficult things, if I'm honest with you, that I had to navigate just on this conversation that you just said, which was in my old relationship, when when me and my ex basically started out dating, we did the same job as how we met. We met in the same job. So we did the same job as travel consultants, we were on the same salaries, we had the same hours, we were the same basically. And then I basically decided that I no longer wanted to do that and I wanted to start my own business. And you know, create girls and property and all of this, which is an extremely, extremely difficult thing to do, and to expect your partner just to understand that is difficult. So I started to kind of like go off, and obviously at the start it was really difficult, and you know, they're they're literally supporting you through all the tears, all the tantrums, all the I can't do this, and they're there. But then when you start to really evolve and you start to grow and you start to, you know, go, go, go, go, and you start to take off. They almost feel like they're being left behind because they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a minute. You're now, you're now up here, and I'm I'm all the way over here. And now you're like obsessed with your business, and now you're addicted to your business. Now your baby is your business, and now your business is taking priority and all of your attention, and I'm sort of just being left behind over here. And so trying to navigate that and be with somebody who can understand that is a very, very difficult thing to do. Um, which is why I feel like so many people start businesses. with their partners or you know, because they're like, now we're in it together and you can understand what's going through, but that's a whole different conversation. So honestly Emma, I feel we could just talk for hours. But into. For another time for another time. But I've absolutely loved today's episode and I think it's just touching the iceberg of the conversations that need to happen for women in their 30s. We can even have conversations for 40s, 50s, we can have conversations for you know mums and their identity. So there's lots and lots that could could be had here. But um Emma, you've of course got your own community, you've got your own podcast, you've got your own retreat, which of course I'm going to in October. So where can people find you if they want to kind of talk to you and have conversations? I know you're not on Instagram, but when you get back on Instagram, let them know and in the meantime where can they find you? So I will be back on Instagram within the next month. So I would definitely recommend going to follow me there. It's turning 30 coach. The 30 is the number three zero. And when you go on, when you add me on Instagram, it will also give you an automation that you can just go on my email list. And that's the best place to hear about all of the things that I'm doing, which, as you said, yeah, I have this amazing community specifically for single women who are navigating their messy middles. It's called Turning and we have the Turning Retreat which is taking place in Thailand in October for anybody who's interested. There are still a few spots left. So yeah, that's the best place to find me. So I cannot finish a podcast where people might be listening back in the future and not give my Instagram handle because you know, just who I am. I'm on Instagram. There you go, 100%. And as always, guys, I am on Instagram. Um, I'm Girls and Property Pod Athena Dobson underscore official. And you know that I'm a bit like Emma, basically. I live in my DMs. So come and talk to me. More than happy to chat. You know, if something really resonated with you today and you're like Athena, like me too, then come and talk to me. Like, you know, let's let's go through this together. Let's have conversations. Um, and like I said, you know, if you want any information about about the girls and property community, you know, what's beautiful about the community is so many things, but the thing I love is that it's not just about Property, like I know the whole label thing. Yes, we do property. Yes, I bring people in to do deal sourcing and and br and HMOs, and you can find all that in the library, like it's all there for you at the touch of your fingertips. But we also talk about okay, let's let's talk about investing, let's talk about you know the challenge we did recently, how to make a thousand pounds in five days, which you know you all did brilliantly at. We talk about personal branding, we talk about you know subconscious work and this whole notion of relationships. Like for me, I always feel like my soul. Mission is not just to upgrade your business but to upgrade you as a person and then bring that together and that is where my alignment is. So if you've been sort of listening to this podcast and think to yourself, do you know what, Athena? Now is the time. Now is the time to really do that. Then just DM me the word community. Let's have a conversation. As you know, Amy Miller, who's our community leader, is also offering out 15-minute discovery calls for anyone who's interested in joining the community. So book it in. You've got literally nothing to lose. Um, I've also got my online foundation course. If you want a self-led property course as well, literally I've got I've got everything. So just just DM me and we can have a conversation. I can point you in the right direction or to other people and connect you as well. Um so yeah, Emma, I'd love to leave you with the parting words today for all our listeners. So what are your parting words? If you resonated with something today, just know that you're not alone. There are so many of us that are navigating these messy middles. There are so many of us who are going through uncertain times, struggling with control and all of these things. So that's I just want to leave the listeners with, there's no need to worry about being the only person in the world because there are so many more of us all going through it at the same time. Well said, beautifully said. And part two coming soon. All right, guys, have an amazing, have an amazing week. You know where we are. Um, you know, don't forget to like, share, and subscribe, drop into my DMs and go and be fabulous. All right, take care, speak to you soon. Bye for now.